EV Digest 6790
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Mystery Motor Help
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Fixing Rapters
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: direct drive or transmission?
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Power Stering and A/C
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5) RE: Power Steering and A/C
by "Will Beckett \(becketts\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Power Stering and A/C
by "Guy Stockwell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: direct drive or transmission?
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) ZAP and Lotus?
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: SepEx Regen Chopper - Help!
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Fixing Rapters
by "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: SepEx Regen Chopper - Help!
by tt2tjw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Charging Stations
by "Chuck Hays" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Forklift RPM
by Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Yeah where is my motor!
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: "Honey, I Shrunk the Tires"
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Power Stering and A/C
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: ZAP and Lotus?
by "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Who can fix Curtis Controller?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Power Stering and A/C
by "Guy Stockwell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Damn, thats a B.F.M.
What'er you planning on putting it in?
----- Original Message -----
From: William Brinsmead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Friday, May 18, 2007 7:00 am
Subject: Mystery Motor Help
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Hi Folks,
> I hope someone can identify this big motor / generator ? or at
> least a
> manufacturer .
>
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/preview.php?vid=1120
>
> Thanks, Bill
>
>
--- End Message ---
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Major" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: direct drive or transmission?
>
> Hi John,
>
> I agree with you. Even if there is a reducer between
> the motor and rear end. If it is a single fixed ratio
> drive, it is direct drive. If it is multiple ratio,
> it is a transmission. That has been the customary
> terminology for as long as I can remember.
> Yup! Same on the RR, we sure as hell don't use trannies on the RR just
a fixed gear ratio, about 3 to one for passenger to 5 to one for freight.As
I remember the exception proves the rule the FNCF, French RR did try a few
lokies with a two speed gearbox. I don't think they shifted on the fly?
Threy just wanted to "Gear Down" for a bit more grunt for freight work?Same
thinking as the Tesla guyz with their E rig.But I think I would STILL call
it a "Gear Box" EVen though you could argue "Transmission" Why isn't General
Motors, General Engines as they have done their damndist to NOT use any
"Motors" in their offerings!? Diseasel cruise ship is a "Motorship"?Well the
biggies are Diseasel-electric drive I guess?
Drive ya nuts
Bob
> Jeff
>
> --- John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Hello to All,
> >
> > Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> >
> > >Not to pick bones, but that would be a single speed
> > transmission.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Peter has brought this 'correction' up many times,
> > and though I usually
> > find myself in agreement on most things with him, I
> > have to disagree
> > this time.
> >
> > >Direct drive implies that you are /direct/ly
> > driving the wheel with the
> > >motor.
> > >
> > > > > If Car and Driver thinks a car without a
> > transmission and with an
> > electric motor coupled directly to the rear end is
> > 'direct-drive',
> > that's good enough for me.
> >
> > See Ya.....John Wayland
Me too!
> X train driver
Bob
>
____________________________________________________________________________
________Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's
> Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.
> http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roland -
How did you build the alternator-inverter for regen of a 120v pack?
(I'd like to recharge a 144v pack)
How did you keep the alternator (and everthing else) from overheating on
'long downhill runs' (not that there's any around here, but you never know
where I might go...)
What did you use to provide the electric clutch off the pilot shaft - an
old AC compressor clutch, or something else?
Did you keep a log?
Can we see it?
Thanks!!
Ed Cooley
Charlotte, NC
"Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
05/18/2007 12:15
Please respond to
ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To
<ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
cc
Subject
Re: Power Stering and A/C
Hello Guy,
Yes, I have all that and more. See
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/470.html
These pictures were taken back in 2002. The last mod was done in 2000.
Since then I added three electric drives for the accessories, a EVCan
electric power steering unit, a back up electric clutch that comes off the
pilot shaft of the motor to provide backup power to the accessory drive in
case the drive motors or the DC-DC converters go out and provides
accessory
REGEN while the drive motors are off line.
A hot water electric heating system was added, Zilla and Zilla water cool
fill tank, a PFC-50 charger that raise out of back compartment on gas
struts, two more contactors, chassis boxes, more switches and instruments.
So you can barely see the components in this EV now.
I mounted the A/C unit, as well as a inverter-alternator, a vacuum pump
and
two 3 hp drive motors a GMC accessory aluminum mounting plate that is
normally install on the front of a diesel engine. It has all the bracket
mounts to hold all the accessories including a GMC vacuum pump.
I mounted this accessory plate onto a large 1/2 inch thick aluminum plate
that is bolted to a 4 in. x 4 in. by 3/8 aluminum angle at the bottom
which
is bolted down to the frame with two engine donuts mounts. Another
support
plate is mounted 4 inches behind this which is only a foot high, and all
is
bolt down to the frame in like manner.
The motor pilot shaft has a Dodge Dynaflex coupler on it is connected to a
drive shaft through two face mounted bearings on the two mounting plates.
This drive shaft is in the save position that a engine damper wheel and
pulley would be at.
You do not need a damper wheel, but I use the same diameter pulleys on all
the accessories as it would be on a engine. The pulleys I use are
industrial solid steel type, not the stamp sheet metal type. You could
also
use a serpentine belt kit also.
I am do a mod now, while I remove the Dynaflex coupler and install a
electric clutch which will disconnect the motor from the accessory drive
unit when the accessory motors go off line, during a coast down long
hills.
This provides safety for me, so the EV does not run away going down long
hills in the winter on icy hills. During this time, the
alternator-inverter
provides 120 VAC 60 cycle 6kw to the on board battery charger, to provide
some REGEN to the batteries.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Guy Stockwell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 9:19 AM
Subject: Power Stering and A/C
> I'm new the the list and am ready to pull the trigger on a conversion,
but
> was wondering if anyone has incorporated power steering and A/C as part
of
> their conversion.
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Guy
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I put a power steering kit in my S-10 Blazer years ago and was very happy
with the result. I did not have A/C in that car but do have A/C in my
Solectria Force.
- Will
Aptos, CA 95003
(831) 688-8669
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Guy Stockwell
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 8:19 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Power Stering and A/C
I'm new the the list and am ready to pull the trigger on a conversion, but
was wondering if anyone has incorporated power steering and A/C as part of
their conversion.
Thanks in advance!
Guy
No virus found in this incoming message.
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--- Begin Message ---
I appreciate the responses! What kind of impact have you seen on the range
with A/C?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 11:49 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Power Stering and A/C
Wayne, at ev-blue.com has done this before...
He's got some really good pictures detailing how it might be done.
I wish I lived closer to his shop...
Anyway.
Running accessories 'requires' an electric drive motor with 2-half-shafts
(one to drive the trans, the other to drive accessories).
http://www.ev-blue.com/photos.html
This picture shows a 1-wire alternator for use for charging the 12-volt
battery, as well as an AC compressor.
http://www.ev-blue.com/98-S10/023.jpg
There has been a variety of discussion regarding power steering...
When the drive-motor isn't turning, no power steering.
When it is, you're moving, after which the front wheels are easier to turn
anyway.
(you do NOT want an unloaded series-electric motor turning, as it runs the
risk of 'running away' and 'blowing up').
Thus, you're probably looking at electric power steering, with some kind
of speed sensor to turn it on at low speeds (I have found its not really
needed above 15mph).
My conversion isn't done, once its complete (and I've gotten it to
actually go down the road) I'll add other stuff, such as AC and whatnot.
The original vehicle (in my case) had 'manual' steering, so I'll probably
stick with that.
"Guy Stockwell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
05/18/2007 11:19
Please respond to
ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To
<ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
cc
Subject
Power Stering and A/C
I'm new the the list and am ready to pull the trigger on a conversion, but
was wondering if anyone has incorporated power steering and A/C as part of
their conversion.
Thanks in advance!
Guy
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Gotta agree with John. To quote an article about sprint cars,
"The engine bolts directly to the large rear differential through an
exposed driveshaft that runs through the cockpit directly between the
driver's legs. Because there's no transmission or clutch, the driveline is
either engaged or it's not-direct drive."
Sprints run about 700HP in a 1400LB car. Don't need a trans.....
Darin
BadFishRacing
Original Message:
-----------------
From: John Wayland [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 08:04:17 -0700
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: direct drive or transmission?
Hello to All,
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>Not to pick bones, but that would be a single speed transmission.
>
>
Peter has brought this 'correction' up many times, and though I usually
find myself in agreement on most things with him, I have to disagree
this time.
>Direct drive implies that you are /direct/ly driving the wheel with the
>motor.
>
>
>
Perhaps in a purely engineering environment where everything is literal,
but not in the normal context of the automotive world (the world that
EVs are in) where direct drive 'means' that the motor(s) 'directly
drives' the rear end without the aid of a multispeed transmission or the
inclusion of a clutch or torque converter. The 'transmission' has always
meant the box between the drive motor and the rear end that provides
multiple gear ratios. Front drive combines the differential and the
multispeed transmission into one unit, hence the term 'transaxle'. On a
rear drive affair, remove the transmission between the motor and the
rear end, and you have direct drive right into the rear end.
Example (1)
When talking with the engineers from GM back in '96 about 'Sunnyside
Up', the land speed Impact (forerunner to the EV1), they too, referred
to the car as direct drive, since it had no selectable gear ratios. I
know, because I asked them how they got the thing up to 180+ mph when I
queried, "Did you install a 2 or 3 speed transaxle?" Their answer? "No,
it's still direct drive...we did change the reduction ratio to something
quite a bit taller though." They actually used the term 'direct-drive'.
The transaxle of the EV1 is a gear reduction system, not a transmission.
I will admit, that in EV1 literature they referred to the reduction
system as a single speed transmission, but even that was incorrect, as
it was technically a 'single speed transaxle' not a transmission. In a
rear wheel drive car though, no one would ever call the rear end a
'single speed transmission'...they call it a rear end, or 'final drive
ratio'.
Example (2)
I work in the forklift industry, where nearly every electric drive
system is called 'direct drive'. The 'drive unit' is never called a
'transmission', it's always called the 'drive unit', and in pretty much
all the tech info they refer to the electric motor as 'directly driving'
the drive wheel(s) through a gear reduction unit...they do not call it a
transmission...they do call it direct drive. In most all the tech
service manuals in the maintenance sections, they warn about jacking up
and securely blocking the truck because of the 'direct drive' and the
ability of an electric motor to accidentally get turned-on.
Example (3)
Car and Driver wrote the story on my car...I had nothing to do with it
other than pushing to get some of those who have helped with sponsorship
mentioned in the final copy. They are what most everyone would call
automotive experts. In the article they call my car 'direct drive'...
"Maximum rpm is about 7000, which thanks to a 4:11 final drive, is just
enough to get this direct-drive car down the quarter-mile."
If Car and Driver thinks a car without a transmission and with an
electric motor coupled directly to the rear end is 'direct-drive',
that's good enough for me.
See Ya.....John Wayland
...owner of both an EV with a flywheel, clutch, and 4 speed transmission
and an EV that's direct-drive.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft® Windows® and Linux web and application
hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting
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--- Begin Message ---
I friend just emailed me a notice about ZAP and Lotus Engineering joining
forces to produce an EV
they are calling the ZAP-X Crossover. Anyone heard of this?
"An advanced battery system will enable the car to travel a range up to 350
miles between charges,
with rapid charge technology that can recharge the batteries in as little as 10
minutes."
Sounds a little fishy to me.
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Chet,
I never designed a regen control, but have used a few.
I read over what you have and seems pretty good. My
take is that if you are above base speed, leave both
choppers off and increase the field while sensing
current (for braking torque) and voltage (for battery
protection). If either get too hi, back off field
current.
When speed falls below base, leave full field current
on and start chopping regen chopper, while sensing
current and voltage. Start at low duty cycle and
bring up to your desired current (braking torque) or
battery voltage limit. As you approach either, stop
increasing or slow down the rate of increase of duty
cycle. The control may be a bit trickey. Depending
on battery SOC, you may reach battery charge voltage
limit and have to decrease duty cycle thereby reducing
braking torque and get into friction brakes to stop
the vehicle.
I have never seen the power zener thing used.
Another thought. When I said "full field current",
this depends on the particular sepex motor. Full does
not mean maximum. On the sepex motors I use, full
field is about 8 or 10 amps and max is 30. During
regen, I think field is about 10 amps.
Jeff
--- Chet Fields <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Even after reviewing all the Regen info I could find
> in both the archives and the web in general I
> was hoping someone could help clarify a couple of
> specific points on it. Keep in mind I am talking
> about a brushed DC SepEx motor.
>
> _____________________________________________
> | | | |
> | 'Regen' | 'Go' | / \
> --- Chopper / Freewheel _____ /Motor\
> - / Diode / \ \ /
> --- | | \ /
> - | | |
> | |__________________|__________|
> | | |
> | 'Regen' | |
> | Freewheel? | 'Go' /
> | Diode _____ Chopper /
> | / \ |
> | | |
> | | |
> ______________|_____________________________|
>
>
> Assuming that the choppers are PWM driven MOSFETs
> during 'motoring' current will flow from the
> battery through the motor and the 'Go' chopper when
> on and through the 'Go' freewheel diode when
> off. The battery voltage is always greater than the
> motor voltage in this scenario so therefore
> current flows in this direction. (I'm talking
> positive to negative, conventional? flow) So up to
> this point it's pretty clear to me.
>
> However, when we leave the 'Go' chopper off (open)
> and I apply full field current this is where it
> gets fuzzy. What exactly is happening to the
> armature windings? They are now rotating through the
> fields' flux and therefore should be creating a
> voltage across the windings correct? However,
> because they are not hooked to anything there is no
> current flow. And because there is no current
> there is no 'back' torque or stopping power?
>
> And the voltage that is produced is proportional to
> the RPM correct? Which for this particular
> motor would be full pack voltage at base speed,
> right? Or, if there was any field weakening the
> correspondingly lower voltage? In other words, with
> field weakening the RPMs would need to rise to
> match the RPMs that the motor would spin at full
> pack voltage with that particular field strength?
>
> So in order to get current to actually flow back
> into the battery I need a greater voltage, and I
> will only get that if the motor is rotating at
> greater than base speed right? And below base speed
> there is no way I could get any regen unless somehow
> I can boost the voltage. This is where I need
> some help. If we were to 'chop' the regen, as the
> regen mosfet is closed this basically shorts the
> motor windings allowing current to flow (ramp?)
> through the windings and the regen mosfet. Then
> when the mosfet is switched off, because of the
> inductance of the armature windings the current
> continues to flow as the field collapses. But is
> this voltage proportional to the duty cycle and
> actually higher than the battery pack voltage at
> some duty cycle less than 100% and RPM below base
> speed? Is this how you can get regen at lower
> speeds?
>
> And if this is all true, then how can you control
> the voltage produced in the off cycle? Do you
> simply need to reduce the duty cycle or do you also
> need to adjust the field current?
>
> A final question, should I be worried about
> generating too high a voltage and protect the
> batteries and capicitors (omitted from the diagram)
> somehow with like a high power zener (if there
> is such a thing)?
>
> I will have 108V nominal battery pack. Is there such
> a thing as a 135V or so Zener? How much power
> would it need to dissipate? Or, should I try to
> simply keep the voltage down with the duty cycle?
>
> Thanks for any help,
>
> Chet Fields
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________Be
> a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers
> from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it
> out.
>
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I can repair them, but I generally don't bother with single quantities of a
new design. Often you have to do non-trivial reverse-engineering to come
up with enough of a schematic to begin repair/diagnosis. I am an
authorized repair depot for 4QD controllers, and I have repaired Curtis and
Alltrax (yes, even the potted ones!) If there is a market for repairs on
a common controller I can reverse-engineer once, then repair many, then I'll
consider it.
If you have an otherwise junked controller that you have no prospects of
repairing, send it to me and I'll start a collection. If I get several of
the same model, I'll start looking at them.
I also have several proven DC controller designs in my stable, and one new
AC one I'm itching to build. Large Power discretes are getting cheaper!
Maybe a cheap DC HV controller will surface soon too.....
-Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 9:34 AM
Subject: Fixing Rapters
Hi EVerybody;
Getting backed into a corner here. I HATE the thought of going back to
contactor controllers, which I can build and FIX! The squalid State stuff is
great when it works! But.........I have one Rapture that soldiers on, the
other 2 have died in their sleep, on my garage shelf, SAFE from CT's cruel
weather<g>!
Rumer that Pete Senkowsky(sp?) fixes them? Has he a website and Bat Fone
no?? The number I tried 707-994-1972 yopu just get the @#$%^% Tape. No
reply. Does he have another. Is he contactable? Or , better yet who ELSE
fixes these things?Have a yard full of EV 's and EV wannabees with NO nice
controllers. It's enough to drive ya to contactors!
Boy! Guyz! Heres an opportunity for you heavy electronic geeks! Open a
we-fix-anything shop, take those dead Cursits, Raptures and oddball stuff in
and FIX them, for a reasonable price, in a resonable turn around. Design
EVeryman's controller, like 120-150 volts 500 amps for the grocery getter
EV's that arent racing on weakends!
Seeya at Power of DC
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chet
Citroen sepex controllers are arranged like this,
__________
| | |
/ /\ |
_______| | ---- +
| | | - -
motor / /\ |
| | | |
-----------------
"Go" chopper on the high side. "Regen" chopper on the low side
As far as I understand you don't need the regen chopper untill you are
below full field full voltage RPM, above that ROM current will flow
through the free wheel diode into the battery.
Like you I still don't understand how regen occurs at low RPM, I have
been told it is dependent on the inductance of the armature, I haven't
had time to read up about inductance but will let you know if I do,....
or hopefully someone more knowledgeable will reply first.
Personally I'm not that bothered about regen at low RPM but I'm not sure
if there will be a problem for the motor if it isn't implemented.
I have a manual which describes the principle but not the finer details
of my controller, its in French, I am emailing it to you.
I can also send some pictures of the internals of the controller, if
that will help you, but not immediately.
go well,
Tom Ward.
Chet Fields wrote:
Even after reviewing all the Regen info I could find in both the archives and
the web in general I
was hoping someone could help clarify a couple of specific points on it. Keep
in mind I am talking
about a brushed DC SepEx motor.
_____________________________________________
| | | |
| 'Regen' | 'Go' | / \
--- Chopper / Freewheel _____ /Motor\
- / Diode / \ \ /
--- | | \ /
- | | |
| |__________________|__________|
| | |
| 'Regen' | |
| Freewheel? | 'Go' /
| Diode _____ Chopper /
| / \ |
| | |
| | |
______________|_____________________________|
Assuming that the choppers are PWM driven MOSFETs during 'motoring' current
will flow from the
battery through the motor and the 'Go' chopper when on and through the 'Go'
freewheel diode when
off. The battery voltage is always greater than the motor voltage in this
scenario so therefore
current flows in this direction. (I'm talking positive to negative,
conventional? flow) So up to
this point it's pretty clear to me.
However, when we leave the 'Go' chopper off (open) and I apply full field
current this is where it
gets fuzzy. What exactly is happening to the armature windings? They are now
rotating through the
fields' flux and therefore should be creating a voltage across the windings
correct? However,
because they are not hooked to anything there is no current flow. And because
there is no current
there is no 'back' torque or stopping power?
And the voltage that is produced is proportional to the RPM correct? Which for
this particular
motor would be full pack voltage at base speed, right? Or, if there was any
field weakening the
correspondingly lower voltage? In other words, with field weakening the RPMs
would need to rise to
match the RPMs that the motor would spin at full pack voltage with that
particular field strength?
So in order to get current to actually flow back into the battery I need a
greater voltage, and I
will only get that if the motor is rotating at greater than base speed right?
And below base speed
there is no way I could get any regen unless somehow I can boost the voltage.
This is where I need
some help. If we were to 'chop' the regen, as the regen mosfet is closed this
basically shorts the
motor windings allowing current to flow (ramp?) through the windings and the
regen mosfet. Then
when the mosfet is switched off, because of the inductance of the armature
windings the current
continues to flow as the field collapses. But is this voltage proportional to
the duty cycle and
actually higher than the battery pack voltage at some duty cycle less than 100%
and RPM below base
speed? Is this how you can get regen at lower speeds?
And if this is all true, then how can you control the voltage produced in the
off cycle? Do you
simply need to reduce the duty cycle or do you also need to adjust the field
current?
A final question, should I be worried about generating too high a voltage and
protect the
batteries and capicitors (omitted from the diagram) somehow with like a high
power zener (if there
is such a thing)?
I will have 108V nominal battery pack. Is there such a thing as a 135V or so
Zener? How much power
would it need to dissipate? Or, should I try to simply keep the voltage down
with the duty cycle?
Thanks for any help,
Chet Fields
____________________________________________________________________________________Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sort of a general set of questions for the collective:
At the university where I teach -- Thompson Rivers
University in Kamloops, BC -- our Environmental
Sustainability Committee is tackling some issues
like recycling, xeriscape and sustainable energy.
One of the topics I've injected into the
conversation is the idea of providing charging
stations on campus for people who use EVs.
We have a local dealer for some brand of little
electric scooter who sells a fair number of them
to people who ride them to campus, and there
is interest in the community for various kinds of
EVs from purpose-built to conversions.
Since I live 40 km from campus, one of my criteria
for using an EV is having access to electrons.
Off the top of my head, I think having outlets
available for both 220 and 110 would be ideal.
I'm not sure of the details, but having charging
drops installed at the bases of the lights in the
parking lots sounds fairly logical. We have an
electrical trades program on campus that would
no doubt get involved to do wiring, and other
trades that could be asked to build station
infrastructure.
Questions:
1. If 220 is in place (at the lamp posts, say), is
it useful to have both 220 and 110 available, or
do most onboard chargers simply need 110?
2. What current capacity per vehicle? The onboard
charger for the S-10 conversion (CanEV) that I'm
looking at needs a 15A circuit.
3. How to pay for power? I can see that at some
point there would be enough people charging to
noticeably affect the university's hydro bill. What
kinds of options are other people using -- pay a
flat rate of a few dollars per month based on usage,
incorporate a metering device?
I can see being able to pull into a parking space,
unreel my 110 cord, and stick a toonie in the meter
to give me six hours of charge or so. That might
be problematic if I used the vehicle during the day
to run errands or go to lunch and couldn't get the
same spot when I returned, so I could also see
either a flat yearly fee or a monthly payroll deduction
to pay for charging.
Or, being a professor, I suppose I could install a
wind turbine on the front of my lectern and charge
my EV while boring my students to tears. :)=)}
What kinds of charging stations are installed at other
places -- or are we really breaking new ground here?
Chuck
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
PlasmaBoy, Hi-TorqueBoy, or anyone else who knows:
Is general is there an RPM where 36V and 48V forklift motors are most
efficient?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike asked how my old timey Westinghouse motor could be made to drive the
car faster----easy: Speed increase is achieved by overdriving the motor.
This 48v motor would have originally been driven by a 54v system.
I'm contemplating a 72v system with modern controller.
Brush advance is possible I suppose.
Where'd I get the "gem"?
1) It's not a gem...it's a rolling 1911 electric chassis, soon to be a
restored rolling chassis.
2) I got the chassis from a gentleman in Spokane, Wa. who had advertised it
as an unknown chassis in the "Antique Electric Vehicles" newsletter last
Fall. I quickly identified his chassis from photos and description as a
Hupp-Yeats, then spent months and lots of research confirming the vintage of
the car.
-Myles
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Willmon
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 10:23 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Yeah where is my motor!
Hey Jim, that sounds like a pretty neat project to have the pleasure of
working on :-)
Myles wrote:
> > This is the oldest
> > motor he's had a chance to work on and he's pretty
> > excited about it even
> > though it's not meant for the drag strip...
> >
Sounds like its been a long time since you seen one of those motors, eh?
Wasn't that back before the first war? Just kidding. I
notice Myles' EV Album page says he's hoping for a little more speed than
stock. What are we talking advance brush rigging,
lighten the armature, add dilithium crystals....seriously though, this will
no doubt be one to remember.
Myles,
So how did you come by acquiring this jewel?
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You could get some lrr tires and have both traction & better economy.
Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 7:55 AM
Subject: Re: "Honey, I Shrunk the Tires"
> But I believe you are trading mileage for traction. A skinnier hard tire
will not be as good in the rain, a hard stop and hard cornering.
>
> You can also remove bumpers and seatbelts to save weight and also improve
mileage.
>
>
> via Treo
> David Hrivnak
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: "Mark Hanson" <>
> Subj: "Honey, I Shrunk the Tires"
> Date: Wed May 16, 2007 9:35 am
> Size: 1K
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>
> HI,
>
> I used the following formulae: Width x Aspect Ratio = Section Height
> Section Height x 2 = Combined Section Height
> Combined Section Height + Wheel Diameter = Tire Diameter
>
> A 185/60R14 that's 185mm wide
> is 185mm x .60 = 111mm (section height)
> 111mm x 2 = 222mm (combined)
> 222mm + 355.6mm(14") = 577.6mm or 22.74"
>
> So I could find skinnier tires like P205's instead of P225's same diameter
> for my Ford ranger (10% less width). Mileage went from 27mph to 18.5mph.
>
> The Diesel Beetle went from 50mpg to 54 mpg hwy with a 10% surface area
> reduction also.
>
> My E-Porsche went from 30 miles range to 33 miles range so skinnier is
> better (but for some goofy reason people put fat tires on cars).
>
> Have a Renewable energy day
> Stoip by the lA Wind Expo June 3-6
> Mark in Roanoke, VA
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Catch suspicious messages before you open them-with Windows Live Hotmail.
>
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_protection_0507
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you are going to run a full size EV with everything you want on it so you
can run it all year around in any temperature, in the rain, high wind, any
snow depth, on ice, up and down steep hills, then just install a higher
voltage and ampere hour batteries. I have about the same range or even more
than some lighter EV's with nothing on it even though I draw more battery
amp.
A friend of mind that lives down the street from me, has a VW Bug EV that is
strip down like a dune buggy. Does not run it in the winter, while it is
raining, and does not coast good down hills and does not have the range as
my EV has.
I am running 260 ah batteries, and my range would be 81.25 miles if I took
the batteries to 90% D0D. I normally charge at 30% DOD which is about 25
miles.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Guy Stockwell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 11:04 AM
Subject: RE: Power Stering and A/C
>
>
> I appreciate the responses! What kind of impact have you seen on the range
> with A/C?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 11:49 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Power Stering and A/C
>
> Wayne, at ev-blue.com has done this before...
> He's got some really good pictures detailing how it might be done.
> I wish I lived closer to his shop...
> Anyway.
>
> Running accessories 'requires' an electric drive motor with 2-half-shafts
> (one to drive the trans, the other to drive accessories).
>
> http://www.ev-blue.com/photos.html
>
> This picture shows a 1-wire alternator for use for charging the 12-volt
> battery, as well as an AC compressor.
> http://www.ev-blue.com/98-S10/023.jpg
>
> There has been a variety of discussion regarding power steering...
> When the drive-motor isn't turning, no power steering.
> When it is, you're moving, after which the front wheels are easier to turn
> anyway.
> (you do NOT want an unloaded series-electric motor turning, as it runs the
> risk of 'running away' and 'blowing up').
>
> Thus, you're probably looking at electric power steering, with some kind
> of speed sensor to turn it on at low speeds (I have found its not really
> needed above 15mph).
>
> My conversion isn't done, once its complete (and I've gotten it to
> actually go down the road) I'll add other stuff, such as AC and whatnot.
> The original vehicle (in my case) had 'manual' steering, so I'll probably
> stick with that.
>
>
>
>
> "Guy Stockwell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 05/18/2007 11:19
> Please respond to
> ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>
>
> To
> <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> cc
>
> Subject
> Power Stering and A/C
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I'm new the the list and am ready to pull the trigger on a conversion, but
> was wondering if anyone has incorporated power steering and A/C as part of
> their conversion.
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Guy
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OK, I'm biased :). I think Colin Chapman and Lotus are responsible for some
ingenious engineering (I own one), I think ZAP is responsible mostly for
golf cart technology and marketing spin.
If you Google "ZAP-X Crossover" there is a lot of info out there. To me it
looks like Lotus independantly developed an ICE concept car, and ZAP wants
to use it as a platform by replacing the ICE drivetrain with wheel motors.
Personally, I think it's a stretch to call that "joining forces" any more
than the companies that built our donors "joined forces" with us. Lotus
statements are a little vague, but they are more along the lines of "So
it's very satisfying that ZAP's proposed new model will make use of a great
deal of the APX concept's advanced body structure and chassis technology".
Note he didn't say "our new model". Yeah, and I'm building a Jeep, does
that mean Chrysler is joining forces with me?
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 12:20 PM
Subject: ZAP and Lotus?
I friend just emailed me a notice about ZAP and Lotus Engineering joining
forces to produce an EV
they are calling the ZAP-X Crossover. Anyone heard of this?
"An advanced battery system will enable the car to travel a range up to 350
miles between charges,
with rapid charge technology that can recharge the batteries in as little as
10 minutes."
Sounds a little fishy to me.
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Logisystems of Odessa, TX is a rebuilder. LR......
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 2:54 AM
Subject: Who can fix Curtis Controller?
> My curtis controller needs to be rebuilt or replaced, it's a 1221B
70-120V,
> and it just stopped working, no smoke, sparks, or melting, just some
popping
> noises and then it was dead, it looks fine though and had been working
since
> '91. Does anyone on this list know of anyone in the Los Angeles area who
> does work on EV's or can replace or repair my controller? I can pay & tow
it
> where ever, but I don't have the tools, know-how, or space to fix it.
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
> 323 233 9501
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Roland,
I am looking at converting a mid 90's BMW 3 series and would definitely like
to have it as an all weather driver. My average daily round trip commute is
about 25 miles on a relatively flat grade (Lexington, Ky). What type of
batteries do you use 6v, 12v, 8v?
Guy
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roland Wiench
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 2:02 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Power Stering and A/C
If you are going to run a full size EV with everything you want on it so you
can run it all year around in any temperature, in the rain, high wind, any
snow depth, on ice, up and down steep hills, then just install a higher
voltage and ampere hour batteries. I have about the same range or even more
than some lighter EV's with nothing on it even though I draw more battery
amp.
A friend of mind that lives down the street from me, has a VW Bug EV that is
strip down like a dune buggy. Does not run it in the winter, while it is
raining, and does not coast good down hills and does not have the range as
my EV has.
I am running 260 ah batteries, and my range would be 81.25 miles if I took
the batteries to 90% D0D. I normally charge at 30% DOD which is about 25
miles.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Guy Stockwell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 11:04 AM
Subject: RE: Power Stering and A/C
>
>
> I appreciate the responses! What kind of impact have you seen on the range
> with A/C?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 11:49 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Power Stering and A/C
>
> Wayne, at ev-blue.com has done this before...
> He's got some really good pictures detailing how it might be done.
> I wish I lived closer to his shop...
> Anyway.
>
> Running accessories 'requires' an electric drive motor with 2-half-shafts
> (one to drive the trans, the other to drive accessories).
>
> http://www.ev-blue.com/photos.html
>
> This picture shows a 1-wire alternator for use for charging the 12-volt
> battery, as well as an AC compressor.
> http://www.ev-blue.com/98-S10/023.jpg
>
> There has been a variety of discussion regarding power steering...
> When the drive-motor isn't turning, no power steering.
> When it is, you're moving, after which the front wheels are easier to turn
> anyway.
> (you do NOT want an unloaded series-electric motor turning, as it runs the
> risk of 'running away' and 'blowing up').
>
> Thus, you're probably looking at electric power steering, with some kind
> of speed sensor to turn it on at low speeds (I have found its not really
> needed above 15mph).
>
> My conversion isn't done, once its complete (and I've gotten it to
> actually go down the road) I'll add other stuff, such as AC and whatnot.
> The original vehicle (in my case) had 'manual' steering, so I'll probably
> stick with that.
>
>
>
>
> "Guy Stockwell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 05/18/2007 11:19
> Please respond to
> ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>
>
> To
> <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> cc
>
> Subject
> Power Stering and A/C
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I'm new the the list and am ready to pull the trigger on a conversion, but
> was wondering if anyone has incorporated power steering and A/C as part of
> their conversion.
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Guy
>
>
--- End Message ---
