EV Digest 6792
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Custer Car
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: direct drive or transmission?
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: direct drive or transmission?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: direct drive or transmission?
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: belly pan plastic
by "Alan Gideon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Semi-electronic controllers?
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: direct drive or transmission?
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: direct drive or transmission?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) New Pack and RudmenRegs
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: New Pack and RudmenRegs
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Ev Performance
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: direct drive or transmission?
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Mystery Motor Help
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: ZAP and Lotus?
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: direct drive or transmission?
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Yeah where is my motor!
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Ev Performance
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: ZAP and Lotus?
by Jem <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) test
by Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Ev Performance
by Steve Peterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Custer Car
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Yeah where is my motor! Myles motor
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) test 2
by Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Electric Vehicle Expo 2007 - Saturday May 26 in Ottawa, Canada
by Juergen Weichert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: Mystery Motor Help
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Mystery Motor Help
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Vehicle efficiency, wh/mile
by Tom Parker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Semi-electronic controllers?
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Please let's not make it a question of "sides"; it already looks as if
Damon has taken offense to my choosing to challenge John Wayland's
interpretation. ;^>
I can see by your smiley that you realize my post was all in fun. These
type of arguments over semantics tickle my phunny bone in a way that makes
my fingers start typing. I could have just as easily displayed my unique
sense of humor by "taking your side" but I couldn't do it without taking a
side at all... Hmmm perhaps next time I will have to come up with some
clever way of being neutral. Anybody know any good Swedish jokes? Or if I
type a post in "Swedish Chef" speak would that be to much of a strech.
damon
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damon henry wrote:
> I can see by your smiley that you realize my post was
> all in fun. These type of arguments over semantics
> tickle my phunny bone in a way that makes my fingers
> start typing.
I'm glad you noticed the smiley! I couldn't think of a way to respond
to your post that wouldn't have been too open to misinterpretation, so
had to let it go.
Swedish chef-speak works for me, hopefully we're not the only ones on
the list who remember the muppets... ;^>
Have a great weekend,
Roger.
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--- Begin Message ---
I'm swedish you insensitive clod! ;)
Bork
On 5/18/07, Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
damon henry wrote:
> I can see by your smiley that you realize my post was
> all in fun. These type of arguments over semantics
> tickle my phunny bone in a way that makes my fingers
> start typing.
I'm glad you noticed the smiley! I couldn't think of a way to respond
to your post that wouldn't have been too open to misinterpretation, so
had to let it go.
Swedish chef-speak works for me, hopefully we're not the only ones on
the list who remember the muppets... ;^>
Have a great weekend,
Roger.
--
www.electric-lemon.com
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For a pattern, cardboard works pretty well, and is even cheaper than 6mm
ply. Some years ago, I had to patch the floorboard of my car. Up came the
carpet, out came the tin snips to remove the remains of the rusted portion
of the floorboards, down went the cardboard, cut cut cut went the scissors.
It gave me a nicely articulated pattern for the very thin sheet aluminum I
screwed into place to act as the form for a layer of fiberglass mat.
When I finished, it was probably the most structurally sound portion of the
car.
Just an alternate thought pattern.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Martin Winlow
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 7:20 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: belly pan plastic
Why not start off with 6mm marine ply - much cheaper - then when you've
finished tweaking it and tried it out for a while, you can upgrade to
something more exotic and permanent... Just use the ply as a pattern and
trace around it to cut the finished article. MW
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Al
Sent: 16 May 2007 02:55
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: belly pan plastic
I would like to work on improving the aerodynamics of my truck. Of course I
want to keep weight to a minimum.
I am considering LDPE, HDPE, and "Lexan" in say 3/32 or 1/8 thickness. Lexan
is probably best at impact resistance. Not sure if low or high density poly
would be a good choice as it costs less than Lexan. Thanks for any comments.
Al
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Micros makes it easy to do these things in software,
my software doesn't allow a transition
from off to 3rd or 4th, only 1st or 2nd.
And also inserts delays between speed changes.
Speed selector is just a 10-position switch from the surplus pile.
Jack
jerryd wrote:
Hi Jack and All,
I put my resistor to go on each time the pedal
is pressed first before it going full power, a 2 speed
pedal, and switching other speeds by seperate switching,
preferably on a shift lever so it's somewhat like normal
gears. The resistor each time really helps keep from
breaking things if you start in top speed accidentally ;^D
A circuit like a relay on the motor leads so
you need to have a certain voltage on the motor before the
Field weakening or top speed comes on is a good mod as you
shouldn't use FW until at least 1/2 power or starting in top
speed.
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Semi-electronic controllers?
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 14:15:28 -0700
I've been working on my contactor controller, and have it
setup so my micro reads the throttle pot and turns on/off
one of four contactors. I've been testing it, and find the
go-pedal control to be too "mushy". I'm now changing it so
there is a hand-selected speed switch input to the micro,
and the go pedal only turns on/off the selected speed.
If you are going to use silicon and deal with its heat and
losses, you might as well just PWM it.
I agree but that also applies to your micro. Diode
matrix, micro switches and relay's work well instead.
Jerry Dycus
Jack
Tom Gocze wrote:
How about a contactor/rectactor type controller that used
some form of electronic switching, not PWM, but just an
electronic on off switch?
I am not knowledgeable about solid state switches nor
scrs, but is there not a solid state version that would
do this quietly?
Seems like most of the distress that people have with
contactor controllers is the noise. I, for one, like
the lurch that you get on that last hit into "high"
voltage. I have had great results using resistors for
that slow speed running, and think that a three level
control would minimize the time that one ran with a
resistor for those of you who don't need the heat!
(Snowed in parts of Maine last night!!!)
Hope to get more stuff on the Contactor Controller page
this weekend.
Tom in Maine
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hey what about the CVT setup on my Aspire, it decouples at zero rpm so
that is not direct-drive, but it drives the wheel directly via the belt
to the axle shaft, and has a changing speed reduction, so is that a
transmission? :)
Jack
Roger Stockton wrote:
MIKE WILLMON wrote:
So with all that in mind here are two items that need
clarification in my mind for me to make a decision on who's
side to be on:
Please let's not make it a question of "sides"; it already looks as if
Damon has taken offense to my choosing to challenge John Wayland's
interpretation. ;^>
I think the one common thread to the sprint car, material handling, EV1,
White Zombie, etc. examples is that all of these systems lack a clutch
or other means of decoupling the prime mover from the load.
The White Zombie and sprint car both have no reduction between the motor
and wheels other than that in the rear-end. The material handling (lift
truck) and EV1 cases both have additional reduction between the motor
and final drive.
It seems fairly clear then that prior convention has been to use the
term direct drive to refer to drive systems lacking a clutch mechanism,
not to the presence or absence of single or multiple reduction ratios
between the motor and wheels. In the EV world, however, we refer to
these systems simply as "clutchless".
EVs open up the possibility of having a wheel mounted directly (or
indirectly via an axle shaft) to the motor shaft, which is the ultimate
direct drive system. When the motor is located within the wheel, we
refer to these as "hub motors", which are understood to be direct drive
even though many hub motors actually include a speed reduction between
the shaft and wheel.
You list some interesting special cases. Here are a few others:
- a vehicle with a multi-speed transmission that is locked in a single
gear: direct or not?
- a vehicle with a single fixed reduction between the motor and wheel,
but with a clutch mechanism allowing the motor to be decoupled from the
wheel: direct or not?
I don't know that it is important to try to sort which of these
possibilities could be lumped into the "direct drive" universe or not.
I think the important thing is to recognise that there are a whole bunch
of quite different drivetrain configurations possible in between the
extremes of one with a clutch and multi-speed transmission (unarguably
not direct drive) and one with the motor directly coupled to the wheel
(unarguably direct drive). If we are to have meaningful discussions we
might want to be more selective (precise) in our use of the term "direct
drive" as there can be important differences and considerations between
the various systems.
Perhaps the compromise middle ground is to use direct drive to refer to
all drive configurations with a fixed reduction ratio between the
motor(s) and wheel(s), and no means of decoupling the motor from the
wheel rather than the strictest definition of only such systems with a
1:1 ratio between the motor and wheel?
Cheers,
Roger.
(PS: with respect to your special cases, the definitions of
"transmission" do not require that the gears have to provide a speed
change (ratio other than 1:1), so strictly speaking it could be that
even a gearset providing a 1:1 ratio could be considered a transmission.
Even with a 1:1 ratio, a diff will introduce a change in speed/torque
between its input and output(s) as the vehicle turns or as one wheel
loses traction, so I think it would technically always constitute a
"transmission" type device, albeit a very specialised one. Otherwise we
get into situations such as me stating that my transmission is not a
transmission when in 4th, since 4th gives a 1:1 ratio... ;^)
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Jack Murray wrote:
> hey what about the CVT setup on my Aspire, it decouples at
> zero rpm so that is not direct-drive, but it drives the
> wheel directly via the belt to the axle shaft, and has a
> changing speed reduction, so is that a transmission? :)
See, there's just no limit to the number of drive variations we can come
up with!
FWIW, my opinion is that not only is this a multi-speed transmission
(CVT = continuously variable transmission ;^), but it is also not a
direct drive system since there is an (automatic) clutch between the
motor and wheel, and a transmission providing multiple reduction ratios.
Cheers,
Roger.
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I am putting in a new pack of orbitals and was wanting to put the
regulators other than on top of the batteries. How do I use the external
temperature probe? mounts to post or goop to side of battery? Is it a
Thermocouple or an RTD or a thermister.?
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--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
> I am putting in a new pack of orbitals and was wanting to put the
> regulators other than on top of the batteries. How do I use
> the external temperature probe? mounts to post or goop to side
> of battery? Is it a Thermocouple or an RTD or a thermister.?
I believe it is a simple thermistor. The side of the battery is better
than the post.
Cheers,
Roger.
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--- Begin Message ---
I think I have been overly critical of my EV's performance, it just
doesn't seem to be what it is.
Well Bringing back 20 batteries of the 24 that my EV uses in my ICE
shows how much better the warp9 and z1k are doing than I thought. Poor
ICE was a dog, 200+hp dog. And even with those 20 batteries in it it
weights about 500lbs less than the EV.
I was previously impressed with the performance once when I only had 17
batteries so 320 lbs less which was a noticable difference. and once
when I tested the upper limit of the motor.
The point is that I was underestimating the power not underestimating
the effect of weight. Now a lighter pack seems even more attractive.
I have tried useing the online calculator and I can't seem to get
reasonable numbers. But I am surprized exide orbitals and zilla, and PFC
are not in it.
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I never thought I would disagree with Wayland, but maybe you have spent
to much time around those forklifts. LOL
I am one to think that we, as officianatos should use the proper
terminology and should set what that is!
I run accross this alot. take something as simple as drills. To all the
machinist I know, drills are the thing that goes in the chuck of the
"drill motor" or "drill press "or more often, in the bridgeport. There
is no drill-bit (all though mill is the machine on the floor and
end-mill is the piece in the collet, oh well) But if I go over to "Our
Supply House" or "Lows" Drills plug into the wall (or have a battery
and a charger) and "drill-bits" are what go in the drills' chuck.
I like the distinction between the 3 types of setups and the three terms
to go with them
multi-speed transmission, single speed transmission, and direct drive.
In a lot of applications like machine Servos and extruder drive motors,
this is extreamly clear. (and a big cost difference)
In bicycles it is clear.
It is just the lazy layman in all of us that starts down this road to
ambiquity.
I vote for "transmission" -defaults to stock multispeed, single speed
transmission or fixed ratio gearbox,reduction etc, and direct drive.
(that and $3.50 will get you a decent cup of coffee, or gallon of gas
this week)
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Arnold's hummer conversion?
Seriously, how'd that get in the album? Is the album an acceptable way
to get pictures shared for common access?
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As many know, I spend time sieving through the newswire article
I pay for to make available for the EVDL to read. I make an
effort to 'edit' the amount and type of these I post so the
EVDL does not get spammed or too much bandwidth is used.
THe last post I made on the electric Lotus that Zap is pushing
back in March 07. But I have not posted any more of the plethora
of Zap PR pieces because there hasn't been anything tangibly new
to report (same ol' PR wording).
Zap floods the newswire scene to promote themselves bigger,
better, and more important than they really are (way beyond
bragging) to troll for investment dollars.
I will post a piece on the Electric-Lotus Zap is pushing either
when something has significantly become available on this (like
when the public can actually get one, for how much, or an other
important update has occurred).
I do not post 'all' the tons of Zap PR to spare the EVDL from
being spammed. I do the same about other EV companies that also
mainly troll for investment dollars.
Thanks for your time.
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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. (originator of the above ASCII art)
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Maybe this is one more area we don't have to just follow the car
companies. Although... even they have modified their terminology to fit
technology changes.
The FWD cars have a transmission and it has a "final drive" (it also has
an input ratio, we'll get to that later)
A funny thing GM does that may effect us converters using the stock
automatics.
The will list the gear ratios of a transmission in two different
cars differently even if inside the transmission is absolutly idential.
They will pre-multiply the input ratio or the final drive ratio and say
it has these ratios in 1st,2nd,3rd and 4th when used with this final
drive and a different set when used with the other set. Sometimes it is
an out and out misrepresentaion for marketing. The pontiac GT version
had a "closer ratio" tranny than it's non GT version. In reality they
were the same PN, Only the final drive changed. In other areas the
tranny had a dash number that meant it actually had a different input
ratio on the chain(you heard me correctly) that goes between the torque
converter and the input shaft.
This input chain as opossed to gears and the cantilevered planetary gear
final drive as opposed to ring and crown, is why the american build
tranny is twice the size and weight of the import couterpart for the
same torque output and why the imports effiency is so much better than
ours.
(1% to 4% loss per involute gear mesh depending on angle, up to 25%
power loss on old chrysler hypoid gears, but they were quiet)
import final drive = 2 meshs in series
domestic final drive = 8 meshs in series with a chain.
Perhaps we should strive to end all ambiguity. CVT transmission, Single
ratio transmission, Multi-speed transmission, gearbox, final drive
ratio, etc.
--- End Message ---
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--- Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jim, read your stuff?? I'm having withdrawls. But
> I understand you gotta work to make money too.
> Although with all the fun
> you're having with racing motors and vintage
> electric restoration projects I figure you must have
> a bunch of elves that keep your
> day business running.
Hey Mike, all
It feels good to be busy, really does, I need it in
fact 8^) It's not all motors though lots of OMG
winters over hunney does and general crap that fills
ones day. My wifes been working like a dog to boot as
their like 3 people short so I'm having to take up
some slack in the Mr. mom department (I don't make a
good mom, LMAO) Anyway it's a little of both shop and
family thats keeping ol Jim boy slim (my cooking sucks
also, LMAO)
> I've been working with George Hamstra at
> > Netgain and have decided to go with the standard
> Warp9
> > brush set.
>
> Hey, father knows best, eh? With all the other
> motors in the shop hopefully you're not getting them
> used to being talked to too
> much. You know, none of that touchy feely stuff.
> Don't tease them about their shafts either. I don't
> need the WarP9 getting
> spline envy!! I'd hate nothing more than to have to
> talk them through all the hard times ahead, he he.
> Make 'em tough, and kick
> 'em out :-O
Hey Dutchman makes the Transwarp9 shafts so you in da
money there. They did a really great job on that end
of things. George is shipping out the parts so I can
keep them matched, I'll get with you when I get them.
Anyway Damon knows what happens if you rush or
distract me when I'm working... You get swiss cheese
so you just let me know if these need out ASAP okay,
hehehe. I'm kinda thinking that just my input on the
brushes may have been worth the extra freight to get
these to me. I bet those Warp boys freaking love me
down there 8^o
> If either you or George have any bumper stickers you
> want me to show off on the car, send them on!!
I was thinking about trying to get some more done up
so I could toss some to Chip to hand out for me, I'll
try and get some done and send you some, but this
Pinto better be fast, don't want my sticker on no slow
ass butt ugly Pinto, ROF 8^P Don't you be blaming it
on the motors now either 8^o
>
> > ...Anyway Mike that's the poop, I do
> > have to clear my plate a bit but it won't take
> long to
> > put the bling you're looking for into these.
>
> No pressure Jim. I just ordered the 9" rear-end
> yesterday. You're not going to let the Dutchman
> beat you are ya }:->
Sounds like if you can supply the juice you'll have a
very fast, ugly car, hehehe I guess I'll let you put a
sticker on it, hey wait till you get into the hundred
mile club first though okay 8^P
> >
> > Let's see who am I forgetting...
> > Oh yeah, Wayland. Well it's good to hear you got
> the
> > Zombie back up and terrorizing the streets of
> Portland
> > and no sweat adding a little extra work for me as
> you
> > pound the motor with just 15 springs. You know it
> is
> > almost an issue with you to break stuff isn't it!
>
> ...and if you happen to be by Dutchmans', don't
> break my axle before I get a chance to play with it.
> I bet you've already been by
> Jim's shop slobbering all over the TransWarP9 :-O
> Jim, if he asks you if you'd let him test out the
> motors, Just Say No. he he.
>
> Oh yeah, John, what'er you doing for an E- brake???
John's been running like a dog to, we've played a
little phone tag but haven't hooked up in a few weeks,
I doubt he's got time to mess with your stuff,
although he did say he may be over here on Monday.
I'll make sure he'll play nice, in fact if he comes
he'll have the Siamese8 with him so I'll grab a pic of
yours and his side by side hows that? Get a pic of
Johns naked hairy ass sitting on your motor, LMAO!!!
> > Anyway I just thought I'd kill a bunch of birds
> with
> > one email. Kinda throw something at the list and
> air
> > my underwear out on the bummers of being a small
> shop.
> >
>
> You like it or you wouldn't do it. Do you need some
> more coffee??
> Did you eat all those Kenya AA+ Special Dark beans?
> Kaladi's is featuring Ethiopian Yirgacheffe this
> month.
Your right but sometimes there is just to much cake to
eat at once 8^) no matter how hard you try to eat
more, lol, pretty soon the cakes not quiet so fun to
eat 8^P Of course my normal job of eating crap really
sucks so cakes not that bad 8^0
As far as coffee goes I have it frozen and won't have
any till I begin your motors 8^) I did run out of
coffee the other day and eyeballed the bag, but I
don't have a grinder yet either and decided against
whipping the hammer out to smash me up some beans,
LMAO! So I suffered so I wouldn't bastardize your
coffee offering 8^)
At that, have a great weekend mine will be short as
there'll be shop time to put in for me.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
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--- Begin Message ---
Hello Jeff,
Try http://www.geocities.com/hempev/EVCalculator.html
This version of Uve's calculator has the Zilla and Orbital batteries in it
plus different vehicles.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 6:40 PM
Subject: Ev Performance
> I think I have been overly critical of my EV's performance, it just
> doesn't seem to be what it is.
> Well Bringing back 20 batteries of the 24 that my EV uses in my ICE
> shows how much better the warp9 and z1k are doing than I thought. Poor
> ICE was a dog, 200+hp dog. And even with those 20 batteries in it it
> weights about 500lbs less than the EV.
>
> I was previously impressed with the performance once when I only had 17
> batteries so 320 lbs less which was a noticable difference. and once
> when I tested the upper limit of the motor.
>
> The point is that I was underestimating the power not underestimating
> the effect of weight. Now a lighter pack seems even more attractive.
>
> I have tried useing the online calculator and I can't seem to get
> reasonable numbers. But I am surprized exide orbitals and zilla, and PFC
> are not in it.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
www.zapworld.com I think.
I talked to the company. They are having a bit of a
problem. Lotus wants 40 million for their design, and
this company's market cap is 47 million. SO I dont
know how they are planning to find this money.
I dont know of a technology that can charge in 10
minutes, do you ? They do have some dealers around who
sell their xebra car and sedans that seat 4 , they are
tiny and are not highway approved.
--- Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I friend just emailed me a notice about ZAP and
> Lotus Engineering joining forces to produce an EV
> they are calling the ZAP-X Crossover. Anyone heard
> of this?
>
> "An advanced battery system will enable the car to
> travel a range up to 350 miles between charges,
> with rapid charge technology that can recharge the
> batteries in as little as 10 minutes."
>
> Sounds a little fishy to me.
>
> Dave Cover
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
test of new e-mail address
Paul
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
George Orwell, "1984"
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--- Begin Message ---
On Fri, 2007-05-18 at 17:40 -0700, Jeff Shanab wrote:
> I have tried useing the online calculator and I can't seem to get
> reasonable numbers. But I am surprized exide orbitals and zilla, and PFC
> are not in it.
Dunno which calculator you are calling "the online calculator" but if
you use the one at
http://www.evconvert.com/tools/evcalc/
written by Jerry Halstead, you might find more of what you're wanting.
It lists "Exide orbital 34XCD" and also lists both the Zilla 1k and 2k.
Note, however, that all of the calculators (both of Uwe's plus the one
above) all use the same base code to do the calcs and none of them
actually use the controller information for anything other than
calculating weight to be added to the car. Halstead's adds a flat 20 lbs
for the charger.
Since all use the same base code, all are equally (and unpredictably)
bad at calculating vehicle speed at various points on the torque-rpm
curves (sometimes off by as much as 21% for the FB 4001) and seem to be
pretty bad at calculating range because apparently the curve fitting
(never very good to begin with) gets worse the further the voltage
deviates from the voltage used to calc the motor parameters. I haven't
checked the warp9 curves but after recently spending too many hours
messing with the calcs for the FB 4001 curves, I would be very surprised
if the warp9 calcs were at all close.
Also, I would advise against using "0" for the incline since (1) weight
makes a big difference at even a slight grade, and (2) very few places
are actually perfectly flat/level, and (3) accelerating uphill, even a
shallow one, is a double whammy.
--Steve
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This would be the Custer Park Car, right? Custer had a number of interests
over the years...
http://www.bizjournals.com/dayton/stories/1996/11/04/editorial2.html
I'm surprised he's not impressed with the I-net. Considering its age (and
relative obscurity) I found a dozen entries... fairly informative,
considering. I like the looks of this little rig.
You might try searching "custer car" in google, for a start. You aren't
going to find car specs there, but will find a number of places that used
the rides. The inventor is Luzern Custer.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 3:15 PM
Subject: Custer Car
Hey all:
Last weekend I met a guy at a local car show. He had a Custer Specialty Car
dating to between 1925 and 1935 and was manufactured in Ohio. Sometimes
called a Custer Cootie Car, this vehicle was a 24vdc electric amusement park
ride. He has been trying to find info and has been unimpressed with what he
can find on the net. We walked over to my Force and discussed EV's and how
they work.
I told him I would share his adventure with this list and ask for input.
Your feedback is appreciated.
Jim
Westwood, KS
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--- Begin Message ---
--- Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hey Jim, that sounds like a pretty neat project to
> have the pleasure of working on :-)
Hey guys
This is a neat project,it's funny how a lot of people
see me as more of a race freak (don't get me wrong
that is fun) but way more of my stuff is basic daily
driver stuff which again is fun compared to a
forklift.
Anyway the museum was awesome enough to grab Myles
some pics being the holders are completely removed and
missing. Stuff like how wide the brushes were is very
useful info. I have some older GE / Allis Chalmer
holders I had hoped would be great choices but the
double brushes ones are to short and the triple
brushed ones are to long so there's a little
Goldielocks thing there I need to figuer out what's
best. I really want to mod the longer one to fit and
custom make some brushes for it, I could get Myles an
extra set or two so he'd never run out 8^)
Anyway being that this car ain't gonna be on the road
that quick I'm hoping that I get time where I can
focus on making something that at least works as it
was designed as. In fact this would have to be on any
calender I do, very fun stuff!
> Myles wrote:
> > > This is the oldest
> > > motor he's had a chance to work on.
Hands down. three more years it'll be a hundred that's
pretty freaking cool. The funny thing is if Myles
changed the ratio and pounded this with batteries this
would be scary fast as the motors like 11 or 12" so
it's capable of way more than that car could EVer
handle! Some serious made back when meat was cheap
mentality actually 8^)
In fact the fields are huge in this motor and their
about as ugly as sin so I want to rewrap them which is
gonna be a lot of wrap flippen lol. They also used a
cotton woven coated wire, they make a fiberglass
coated wire that looks almost identical but tougher
that I need to locate and get. The motor doesn't have
terminals and the cables run straight through the
endplate and the rubber gromets are gone so I'm
wanting to install terminal using the pre existing
cable holes where worn cables could be replaces easier
for the next hundred 8^)
Anyway this jobs more like a classy lady kinda thing
or at least it will be when I'm done.
Had fun
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________Boardwalk
for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's
economy) at Yahoo! Games.
http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow
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this should only come once to me - with my new e-mail address (I just
unsubscribed the old one)
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--- Begin Message ---
peekay wrote:
wouldn't it be nice if some kind soul could point the webcam
at the awards function and let us all see thru yahoo chat (webcam
option)
I am sure we will have plenty of photos of the event to post on-line to
share.
.. for any help/how-to i can chip in
If you know anyone with an EV within driving range of Ottawa please
forward this invitation to attend and display their vehicle.
..peekay
Thanks
Juergen
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Its an EV in progress, just like my Pinto on the board with no electric motor
in it yet.
I wonder if that thing would fit between the front fender wells !! :-O
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Jeff Shanab
> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 5:11 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: Mystery Motor Help
>
>
> Arnold's hummer conversion?
>
> Seriously, how'd that get in the album? Is the album an acceptable way
> to get pictures shared for common access?
>
>
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Hey William
It's not from a forklift at least none I've seen. The
comm looks really good from the one pic although it
appears that the top right spring is either worn away
or not latched, am I correct there?
The brush leads are nice and beefy and again from pic
appear to be well taped so there are a couple
Hi-Torque thumbs up 8^). While looking at that spring
try and judge how much more spring travel you'll have
before they bottom out. It looks like you might be in
need of brushes before to long but it's kind of hard
to tell from a small pic. 8^)
If you can, grab any pics showing what you can get of
the fields (the springs 180 out from that one if it is
burnt or worn off) I can maybe shed more light for
you. Feel free to send me more pics. It may take me
a bit longer to have a look and reply than I usually
take but hey its free right LMAO! 8^P
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check.
Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.
http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_tools.html
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--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 2007-05-15 at 23:42 -0500, Danny Miller wrote:
> No, they would not tax electricity used.
>
> There are already test projects to replace fuel taxes and/or toll roads
> with either an odometer reading or much more likely a GPS system.
In New Zealand, diesel fuel has little or no tax and all diesel vehicles
pay "Road User Charges" based on their odometer and vehicle's maximum
weight. Heavy vehicles are charged more to pay for the increased damage
to the road. Truck trailers pay seperately with a seperate hub mounted
odometer. You often see logging trucks with trailers stacked on top of
each other, presumably to avoid these charges (and I guess wear on the
trailer).
I've been told that electric vehicles have to pay road user charges in
New Zealand. If this is the case, I will be adding the smallest lightest
petrol generator I can find, so my car qualifies as a hybrid. I'm
thinking of a permanent magnet motor directly coupled to a weedeater
engine. When connected to the batteries the motor would spin, and with
luck the engine will take over. If it's not possible to tell on the
ammeter if it is drawing or generating current, it is possible that the
weedeater engine will only need to make noise.
I would never actually use this contraption, except to demonstrate the
hybrid abilities when registering the vehicle.
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----- Original Message -----
From: "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 5:38 PM
Subject: Re: Semi-electronic controllers?
>
> Hi Jack and All,
> I put my resistor to go on each time the pedal
> is pressed first before it going full power, a 2 speed
> pedal, and switching other speeds by seperate switching,
> preferably on a shift lever so it's somewhat like normal
> gears. The resistor each time really helps keep from
> breaking things if you start in top speed accidentally ;^D
> A circuit like a relay on the motor leads so
> you need to have a certain voltage on the motor before the
> Field weakening or top speed comes on is a good mod as you
> shouldn't use FW until at least 1/2 power or starting in top
> speed.
>
> Hi EVerybody;
Heres one from the Titanic era on NYC Subway cars; They ran the Sprague
Multiple Unit control system. One Motorman could run ALL the cars in a
Subway train from the head car, easier to see where yur going....Duh! But
the control setup was similar looking to the "Coffee Grinder" type handle ya
see in trolley cars, which was a drum controller. But on the subway they,
the TA , didn't want the guy go for all-or-nothing. Oh he could wind 'er up,
fast as he wanted but as the car started it used zillions of amps,
electrical clutch and spring assembly, came into play. Oh, the spring was
ready to a Zoombie Like launch, but the electrical clutch setup in Series
with the power feed would stay stuck on, overcoming the spring, til the
train got going and the amps dropped off a bit, THEN the spring overcame the
clutch and the controller fed it more power, so off ya went , controlled
launch, so to speak. Other clever setup on streetcars was the magnetic
blowout breaker. IF the Motorman wound up too fast the amp draw pulled an
armature down, tripping the power breaker. These were mounted over the
motorman's head , roof over the control station as a sutile reminder, to the
motorman about racing takeoffs<g> A taller motorman, like me got a surprise,
the first few times!! BIG BANK! Blue flame out the arc shoot! On dry rail
you can pull amps that would turn J. Wayland and Rod Wilde green with envey.
But the circus breaker will remind you!Only problems with these masters of
enginuiety, back then was an attentive motorman, for if you let it the
Magnetic clutch set up would go nuts on wet rail, wheels would spin, amps
drop, and it would just " Wind 'er up"Til you HEARD it, or the motor threw
an armature banding. Olde RR motors DEPENDED on the banding to stay
together.And becides it is tough on the wheels doing "rings of fire"
burnouts in streetcars and trains. GG-1's were spectuluar at night with 12
drive, and 5000hp on tap at the flick of a throttle!! Youse guyz with the
toy EV's Ha Ha! Bet the TGV is a hoot to run, but I'm sure Alstom has taken
the seat-of-the-pants fun out of flying trains?!No Peel Steel at will, or
anybody else watching.Alot of electronics aboard to cut and kill wheelslip!
I love the enginuity of electricsal engineers of the Late 19th century.
that took EV's ,cars, trolleys, trains, from a scientific curiosity to
common workhorses. Sort of make ya a bit humble of our forefathers that
wought all these wonders of the age, IN their age. Something about a train
that's magic, electric ones, especially.That's how I got started in my
deformative years as a kid. Watching the fine collection of Electric Trains
on the Pennsylvania RR, in the Philly area, being taken on trolley cars,
Philly had thousands, back then!
The simple elegence of the olde contacter controllers that have come to
light, of late, on the List. It's our heratage, use, enjoy.
Just thought I'd share a few antiquities. See them LIVE at the Shoreline
Trolley Museum, brought to life by dedicated volunteers, EVery weakend!
Seeya at the Station.
Bob
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