EV Digest 6793
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Charging Stations
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Mystery Motor Help
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Ev Performance
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) An AC bike with Regen!
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Yeah where is my motor!
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: [sfeva] Honda Hydrogen Fuel Cell BOYCOTT?
by "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) article: Electric Motorcycle: Test Drive (with Video)
by Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Mystery Motor Help
by Tom Parker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Last minute Power of DC Info #1
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) AGNS goes for 144v record
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11) Re: article: Electric Motorcycle: Test Drive (with Video)
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Mystery Motor Help, Fun Ideas with?
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: ZAP and Lotus?
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Calling Rich Rudman
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: article: Electric Motorcycle: Test Drive (with Video)
by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jukka_J=E4rvinen?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: ZAP and Lotus?
by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jukka_J=E4rvinen?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: belly pan plastic
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: direct drive or transmission?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: belly pan plastic
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) Re: belly pan plastic
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: direct drive or transmission?
by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jukka_J=E4rvinen?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) 92 Civvy gets a refurb! (parts leftover, anyone?)
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) EV Merchandise
by "Brandon Kruger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
First you might want to talk to Tom Dowling at
EVchargernews.com about this.
The ideal site would have 120 and 240 so any EV could
charge off of it. Here's what I would recommend, what
they installed in Phoenix during the 90's EV programs
were mainly inductive paddle chargers (which are
completely useless to a conversion) and Avcon's. Some
sites had boxes with normal outlets and these are by
far the most useful. These sites have a NEMA 5-20 GFCI
outlet which provides "level 1" charging with a 20 amp
120vac circuit, then they also have a NEMA 14-50
outlet (The newer oven range style outlet) which
provides either 120 or 240 volts at up to 50 amps,
this would be "level 2" charging.
The only issue is that under national electric code
you can't install an outlet for EV charging, it has to
meet all these guidelines like no power until
connected, ground pin touches first and is connected
to vehicle chassis, GFCI is required, blah blah blah.
Basically the Avcon connector addresses all these
issues (www.avconev.com). The only problem is this is
additional stuff, although it is really a glorified
240vac outlet. Anyone wanting to use this would have
to pay about $180 to get an inlet from Avcon.
I believe you can install just a regular 120volt
outlet without these restrictions (don't hold me to
that, check the code), but 15-20 amps would be very
limiting and some chargers can't be throttled back so
if they pull more than the circuit is capable of
supplying they'd be SOL. On that note, having a
circuit breaker easily accessible without having to
call building maintenance would be very good to have.
An additional consideration too is enforcement of the
EV only status of the space; also, unless you know it
will be used regularly from the start don't put it in
a prime parking location that would be valuable. There
used to be charging stations at a lot of the local
malls around the valley here and when the EV's got
pulled they pulled out the charging stations because
they were closer spots than the handicapped spots
where in most cases. If the spaces are actually being
used for EV charging (and I could see some NEV's being
used in the near term) then there needs to be a tow
away policy if an EV shows up and there is a gas car
parked there.
As far as paying for power, for a college it would
probably be relatively insignificant money wise (and
maybe I'm thinking on the scale of Arizona State with
78,000 students). A good size battery pack might use
about a dollar or two worth of power. I don't think
anyone has really come up with a system to do a pay
for your power so this might be uncharted territory.
The easiest way might be to just require a special
parking permit to use the spaces to help subsidize the
useage. Also do consider you do get a LEED credit for
having EV charging. Personally, I'd just start with
free power and if it becomes necessary later you can
just as easily implement some pay method.
Hope that helps
Later,
Ricky
92 Saturn SC conversion
AZ Alt Fuel plates "ZEROGAS"
> > From: "Chuck Hays" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Charging Stations
> Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 17:53:54 +0000
>
> Sort of a general set of questions for the
> collective:
>
> At the university where I teach -- Thompson Rivers
> University in Kamloops, BC -- our Environmental
> Sustainability Committee is tackling some issues
> like recycling, xeriscape and sustainable energy.
>
> One of the topics I've injected into the
> conversation is the idea of providing charging
> stations on campus for people who use EVs.
>
> We have a local dealer for some brand of little
> electric scooter who sells a fair number of them
> to people who ride them to campus, and there
> is interest in the community for various kinds of
> EVs from purpose-built to conversions.
>
> Since I live 40 km from campus, one of my criteria
> for using an EV is having access to electrons.
>
> Off the top of my head, I think having outlets
> available for both 220 and 110 would be ideal.
> I'm not sure of the details, but having charging
> drops installed at the bases of the lights in the
> parking lots sounds fairly logical. We have an
> electrical trades program on campus that would
> no doubt get involved to do wiring, and other
> trades that could be asked to build station
> infrastructure.
>
> Questions:
>
> 1. If 220 is in place (at the lamp posts, say), is
> it useful to have both 220 and 110 available, or
> do most onboard chargers simply need 110?
>
> 2. What current capacity per vehicle? The onboard
> charger for the S-10 conversion (CanEV) that I'm
> looking at needs a 15A circuit.
>
> 3. How to pay for power? I can see that at some
> point there would be enough people charging to
> noticeably affect the university's hydro bill. What
> kinds of options are other people using -- pay a
> flat rate of a few dollars per month based on usage,
> incorporate a metering device?
>
> I can see being able to pull into a parking space,
> unreel my 110 cord, and stick a toonie in the meter
> to give me six hours of charge or so. That might
> be problematic if I used the vehicle during the day
> to run errands or go to lunch and couldn't get the
> same spot when I returned, so I could also see
> either a flat yearly fee or a monthly payroll
> deduction
> to pay for charging.
>
> Or, being a professor, I suppose I could install a
> wind turbine on the front of my lectern and charge
> my EV while boring my students to tears. :)=)}
>
> What kinds of charging stations are installed at
> other
> places -- or are we really breaking new ground here?
>
> Chuck
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________Need
a vacation? Get great deals
to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
http://travel.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Could it be an elevator motor?
Anyone know what motors they use on elevators?
Could they be universal motors too?
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Jim Husted
> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 7:39 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Mystery Motor Help
>
>
> Hey William
>
> It's not from a forklift at least none I've seen. The
> comm looks really good from the one pic although it
> appears that the top right spring is either worn away
> or not latched, am I correct there?
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks. It looks like I missed the extra zero in the rolling resistance
box. So where do you get tires that are 10X better. The government
studies I have seen didn't show that big of a difference
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1144
Look at this AC bike by Philip Hortin from Perth.
Phillip if you're reading, great job.
That looks surprisingly simple for an AC system.
How much did the Danfoss VLT2800 controller cost you?
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Jim Husted wrote:
>
> Hey Dutchman makes the Transwarp9 shafts so you in da
> money there.
More like outta the money there ;-P
Someone else in the money, he he.
> Anyway Damon knows what happens if you rush or
> distract me when I'm working... You get swiss cheese
> so you just let me know if these need out ASAP okay,
> hehehe.
No hurry, I figured I'd make a side trip your way while I'm
down for the Wayland Invitiational just to visit the *boys*.
Maybe stop and see my dad too.
> I'm kinda thinking that just my input on the
> brushes may have been worth the extra freight to get
> these to me.
Of this I have no doubt. Just remember to put a signature on them.
So's I can get a decent price when I put them up on E-bay, doh!
Just kidding. I'll race'em till they die, then you'll see them again.
But you're probably used to that story, eh?
> I bet those Warp boys freaking love me
> down there 8^o
Love you? they oughtta hire you!!
> ...I'll try and get some done and send you some, but this
> Pinto better be fast, don't want my sticker on no slow
> ass butt ugly Pinto, ROF 8^P Don't you be blaming it
> on the motors now either 8^o
I've no doubt the motors will hold, its the slow ass butt ugly
Pinto frame I'm worrying about now. Mickey Thompson raced 'em though
so I oughtta be able to put some beef on the underside,
(after I make a few stock runs with the 8" rear)
So what timeslip would be be happy with before I put your
sticker on? 20's, 19's? ..just as long as it makes it across the line?
> Sounds like if you can supply the juice you'll have a
> very fast, ugly car, hehehe
Hey at least people won't ride my ass driving down the road.
They may even let me merge in traffic without cutting me off.
> I guess I'll let you put a
> sticker on it, hey wait till you get into the hundred
> mile club first though okay 8^P
I'll race you to the club!!!
> I'll make sure he'll play nice, in fact if he comes
> he'll have the Siamese8 with him so I'll grab a pic of
> yours and his side by side hows that? Get a pic of
> Johns naked hairy ass sitting on your motor, LMAO!!!
Sounds great. Just make sure they're laying down flat,
and keep him away from the shafts :-O
>
> Your right but sometimes there is just to much cake to
> eat at once 8^) no matter how hard you try to eat
> more, lol, pretty soon the cakes not quiet so fun to
> eat 8^P Of course my normal job of eating crap really
> sucks so cakes not that bad 8^0
hmmm, crap cakes and coffee. sounds like my job.
I'm glad I don't have to do it in my free time ;-)
I may take up machine work again, just wish I could
make a living at it.
Take it easy.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
* This post contains a forbidden message format *
* (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
* Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT *
* If your postings display this message your mail program *
* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
short video of an EM from Popular Mechanics:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/automotive_news/4216271.html
--
Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
An excellent idea! If you've never seen tractor pulling, check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0NT15P_S8U
The real question is how many tonnes of batteries could find a sponsor
for? If that motor weighs 500kg, the rest of the tractor 1000kg, you
could put 3 tonnes of batteries on board and compete against 3 V12
engines.
On Fri, 2007-05-18 at 12:28 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Can't identify it, but here's what you need to do with it.
>
> Pulling tractor. Contactor armature control. Controller on the shunt
> field. Lots and lots of agm batteries well placed for maximum traction.
>
>
> Darin
> BadFishRacing
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: William Brinsmead [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 07:27:51 -0700
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Mystery Motor Help
>
>
> Hi Folks,
> I hope someone can identify this big motor / generator ? or at least a
> manufacturer .
>
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/preview.php?vid=1120
>
> Thanks, Bill
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web - Check your email from the web at
> http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Jim,
The slowest scootercross racer might actually be my 8-year old son's
Razor E100 with a 100 watt motor. I'm just picturing your 6.7 inch
motor strapped on to this thing :-) It would look like one of my car-
toons.
But that motor sure would be sweet in a custom scooter or go-cart.
Someone is going to be going home with a really great motor.
Wow, since this motor has virtually come back from the landfill, we
should come up with a name for it. I didn't know John hauled it out
of the dumpster. Maybe you should paint it dumpster green :-)
Chip
On May 18, 2007, at 6:17 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: May 18, 2007 5:20:05 PM EDT
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Last minute Power of DC Info #1
Hey Chip
I was thinking that maybe you ought to give the motor
away to the slowest scootercross racer so that they
won't be slowest next year. I then thought that it
wouldn't help much to pay your bills though. I also
thought that it would probably make this years
scootercross the slowest in history LMAO 8^p
Anyway I hope EVeryone takes lots of pics for us west
enders so we get to partake in the EVent.
Sorry I was unable to get Lawless' Juiced up motor
finished in time to debut there (I know I suck) but I
will make sure you get the raffle motor there in time.
Again much love to Wayland who dumpster dove for this
core (man, I got to get a pic of his asscrack hanging
out on one of those dives 8^o) John has been a huge
help in my ability to do this kinda thing so I just
wanted to give some love back to the Princess for all
he does for the community.
I hope all have a great time who can attend, as for me
I'll have to settle for pics 8^( well that and
hopefully some fun stories 8^)
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Finally sunshine in the Buckeye state today! AGNS goes for her 4th
record in the month of May.
I finally get to see if this new timing setup is going to work. The
magic time 13.63 but I really want that 100 mph.
AGNS is bringing a friend to the track with her today, a hopped up
Electropolitan. We'll see if we can get that 96 volt record back. She
isn't very fast but man 0-45 look out. She'll almost stay with AGNS
off the line so I've set up a 60 ft grudge match between my wife Lori
and Denis. I'll try to get it on video. BTW i'm signing Lori up as a
new NEDRA today just in case we get lucky. If you haven't tried the
new paypal method it is very easy.
Shawn
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When was the last time you saw a 500 cc motorcycle do only 50 mph. My little
electric board scooter does 50 mph. My Honda Trail 55cc bike would do 50
mph. Am I suspecting more hype coming from Hybrid Technologies? No, not
them.;-)
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Wujek" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 4:33 AM
Subject: article: Electric Motorcycle: Test Drive (with Video)
short video of an EM from Popular Mechanics:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/automotive_news/4216271.html
--
Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database:
269.7.3/809 - Release Date: 5/17/2007 5:18 PM
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Parker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 8:27 AM
Subject: RE: Mystery Motor Help
> An excellent idea! If you've never seen tractor pulling, check this out:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0NT15P_S8U
>
> The real question is how many tonnes of batteries could find a sponsor
> for? If that motor weighs 500kg, the rest of the tractor 1000kg, you
> could put 3 tonnes of batteries on board and compete against 3 V12
> engines.
> And go after the Big Boyz; the STEAM tracters from the Titanic era, with
the hugh steel wheels, TONS of weight and coal eating, fire breathing
boilers. Those guys drag the gas ones backward with ease. IF ya arent in a
hurry! Now a Steam vs Electric challange would be a battle of the Titans!
"Titan" not Titanic, would be a good name for yur E trak!?For once Badd-ery
weight could be GOOD for you! Then you could do the Monster Truck
scene<g>!Crush the old cars into the ground!Maybe TWO of those motors? Can
ya get another? You will need a special RR flatcar to move this monster. Get
BNSF, or CSX to sponsor it? Free transit to PIR?
Seeya
Bob
> On Fri, 2007-05-18 at 12:28 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Can't identify it, but here's what you need to do with it.
> >
> > Pulling tractor. Contactor armature control. Controller on the shunt
> > field. Lots and lots of agm batteries well placed for maximum traction.
> >
> >
> > Darin
> > BadFishRacing
> >
> > Original Message:
> > -----------------
> > From: William Brinsmead [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 07:27:51 -0700
> > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > Subject: Mystery Motor Help
> >
> >
> > Hi Folks,
> > I hope someone can identify this big motor / generator ? or at least a
> > manufacturer .
> >
> > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/preview.php?vid=1120
> >
> > Thanks, Bill
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > mail2web - Check your email from the web at
> > http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jem" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 10:01 PM
Subject: Re: ZAP and Lotus?
> www.zapworld.com I think.
>
> I talked to the company. They are having a bit of a
> problem. Lotus wants 40 million for their design, and
> this company's market cap is 47 million. SO I dont
> know how they are planning to find this money.
>
> I dont know of a technology that can charge in 10
> minutes, do you ?
They/ you, failed to mention from a 120 volt outlet! Actually you need
a power supply with cables the size of my arms to carry the needed amps. No
free lunch here power out, power NEEDED to replace it! Special charging
drops at Electric Substations?
They do have some dealers around who
> sell their xebra car and sedans that seat 4 , they are
> tiny and are not highway approved.
> So ya drive on the sidewalk?? Sorry, couldn't resist!
Seeya
Bob
>
>
>
> --- Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I friend just emailed me a notice about ZAP and
> > Lotus Engineering joining forces to produce an EV
> > they are calling the ZAP-X Crossover. Anyone heard
> > of this?
> >
> > "An advanced battery system will enable the car to
> > travel a range up to 350 miles between charges,
> > with rapid charge technology that can recharge the
> > batteries in as little as 10 minutes."
> >
> > Sounds a little fishy to me.
> >
> > Dave Cover
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
He is extremely busy building chargers and Plug in Prius kits.
I usually get him at his cell number because he is bouncing between work
sites so much.
Leave a message with a good description of what you want to talk about. That
way he can call you back from the right site and context.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Dempsey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 2:06 PM
Subject: Calling Rich Rudman
> Anyone know if Rich is away from the desk for a while? I emailed him and
have heard nothing.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
________
> Be a PS3 game guru.
> Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo!
Games.
> http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
They misprinted something here. It should have been: Electric Scooter
that looks like a MC.
... and again we get laughed at.. pisses me off... !!
-Jukka
p.s.- I got a new project. I'll list it to EValbum soon... :)
Paul Wujek kirjoitti:
short video of an EM from Popular Mechanics:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/automotive_news/4216271.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's not that tricky for a Li-battery but for the outlet you're charging
from.
Lightweight and affordable charger/powerstage is still missing. ($50/kW)
Also the 200kW line from everyones garage..
But.. batteries will be someday 1kWh/kg and then we are swapping packs
in service stations. I think we'll be there in less than 10 years.
-Jukka
Jem kirjoitti:
www.zapworld.com I think.
I talked to the company. They are having a bit of a
problem. Lotus wants 40 million for their design, and
this company's market cap is 47 million. SO I dont
know how they are planning to find this money.
I dont know of a technology that can charge in 10
minutes, do you ? They do have some dealers around who
sell their xebra car and sedans that seat 4 , they are
tiny and are not highway approved.
--- Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I friend just emailed me a notice about ZAP and
Lotus Engineering joining forces to produce an EV
they are calling the ZAP-X Crossover. Anyone heard
of this?
"An advanced battery system will enable the car to
travel a range up to 350 miles between charges,
with rapid charge technology that can recharge the
batteries in as little as 10 minutes."
Sounds a little fishy to me.
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 16 May 2007 at 7:11, Phil Marino wrote:
> Polycarbonate has very high impact resistance. ...
> police riot face shields ... motorcycle helmets ...
And the front bumper of the ill-fated Sebring Zzipper EV.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John, I wanted to chime in on this one. In short, with all respect to
you, Peter is right on this one.
Not that it's gonna change anyone's
definition, but definitions are out there for good purpose, whether you
agree/use them or not. Unless we use the same terms discussing the same
thing, discussions are meaningless.
John Wayland wrote:
Hello to All,
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
Not to pick bones, but that would be a single speed transmission.
Peter has brought this 'correction' up many times, and though I usually
find myself in agreement on most things with him, I have to disagree
this time.
Direct drive implies that you are /direct/ly driving the wheel with the
motor.
Perhaps in a purely engineering environment where everything is literal,
but not in the normal context of the automotive world (the world that
EVs are in) where direct drive 'means' that the motor(s) 'directly
drives' the rear end without the aid of a multispeed transmission or the
inclusion of a clutch or torque converter.
"Normal" context of the common automotive world is what majority people
are recognizing more easily when talk to each other, nothing more. In
normal context of automotive world Prius is a hybrid car because it is
said so by Toyota and now - by everyone else, but we know it's a pure
gasoline car so this definition plain is wrong (as far as fuel type, not
drive train). But no one cares. Looks like no one likes being literal,
so better use wrong but convenient terms :-)
The 'transmission' has always
meant the box between the drive motor and the rear end that provides
multiple gear ratios.
Really always?
Take a Porsche where whole gear box is integrated in the rear diff
and is part of "rear end" after main drive shaft. There is nothing
between engine and drive shaft (no gears), but this doesn't make
Porsches direct drive.
Transmission doesn't have to have multiple (or variable) ratios to be
called a transmission. All MES-DEA EV srives are called single gear
transmission (by manufacturer, not by me).
More general example - multispeed bicycle. There is no rear end per se,
but there sure is transmission. Multiple sprockets on the wheel -
multispeed transmission. Single sprocket - fixed ratio transmission.
Still a transmission.
If you pedal those bicycles in circus with giant front wheel and
pedals on its shaft, only then it's "direct drive".
If you need a hardware mechanism to transmit torque to your
wheel [axle], this hardware is technically a transmission.
Common understanding of a box sitting between engine and the clutch
is a small subset of mechanisms of that sort, but certainly not the
only one whether GM likes to call it that way or not.
Front drive combines the differential and the
multispeed transmission into one unit, hence the term 'transaxle'. On a
rear drive affair, remove the transmission between the motor and the
rear end, and you have direct drive right into the rear end.
Sorry, literally you're wrong, but I know you want to speak people
language, not engineers' :-)
If each wheel has 1:3 reduction *inside* it (planetary gear ring and 3
satellite gears) it happens after rear diff. According to you it must
be direct drive then, but it is clearly not, especially if one manages
to make ratio selectable right in wheel.
Example (1)
When talking with the engineers from GM back in '96 about 'Sunnyside
Up', the land speed Impact (forerunner to the EV1), they too, referred
to the car as direct drive, since it had no selectable gear ratios. I
know, because I asked them how they got the thing up to 180+ mph when I
queried, "Did you install a 2 or 3 speed transaxle?" Their answer? "No,
it's still direct drive...we did change the reduction ratio to something
quite a bit taller though." They actually used the term 'direct-drive'.
They did, bit this proves nothing.
That was reply of a particular *person* working at GM. That wasn't
really guarantee correct usage of this term; more likely he just wanted
to be understod, so used wrong term knowing that you'll get exactly what
he meant to say because it is wide spread "in automotive world", so you
two were in a perfect agreement.
The transaxle of the EV1 is a gear reduction system, not a transmission.
I will admit, that in EV1 literature they referred to the reduction
system as a single speed transmission, but even that was incorrect, as
it was technically a 'single speed transaxle' not a transmission. In a
rear wheel drive car though, no one would ever call the rear end a
'single speed transmission'...they call it a rear end, or 'final drive
ratio'.
Again, most cars use single gear final diff, so it has fixed final
ratio. You (we) can call it "rear end ratio" and this becomes the same
as final diff ratio. If more uncommon vehicles with in-wheel reductions
is discussed, you must admit, this definition no longer stands.
Example (2)
I work in the forklift industry, where nearly every electric drive
system is called 'direct drive'. The 'drive unit' is never called a
'transmission', it's always called the 'drive unit', and in pretty much
all the tech info they refer to the electric motor as 'directly driving'
the drive wheel(s) through a gear reduction unit...they do not call it a
transmission...they do call it direct drive. In most all the tech
service manuals in the maintenance sections, they warn about jacking up
and securely blocking the truck because of the 'direct drive' and the
ability of an electric motor to accidentally get turned-on.
What you're describing is single speed (or fixed gear, fixed ratio)
transmission. Motors DON'T drive wheels directly (meaning without
help of anything in between motor shaft and wheel shaft, whether
fork lift industry willing to recognize that fact or not.
Yes, a single pair of 1:1 gears between motor shaft and wheel shaft
in a toy car is a fixed gear transmission.
Example (3)
Car and Driver wrote the story on my car...I had nothing to do with it
other than pushing to get some of those who have helped with sponsorship
...
If Car and Driver thinks a car without a transmission and with an
electric motor coupled directly to the rear end is 'direct-drive',
that's good enough for me.
Oh, c'mon. C&D is commercial[ized] magazine meant to be read by
spectators and fans. You'd hardly refer to it for definitions of
engineering terms. But they sure excel to get fun and exciting points
across to fans and reading public, whichever terms allow to achieve that
and make magazine more popular. Open ATZ magazine if you want to be
serious about terminology, but few bother.
Problem is common dilemma - do you use correct term or use any therm on
hand (including "established" slang) to quickly get your point across to
whoever you talk to?
See Ya.....John Wayland
...owner of both an EV with a flywheel, clutch, and 4 speed transmission
and an EV that's direct-drive.
Peter's definition is technically correct: direct drive is the
arrangement where motor directly drives wheel (as hub motor) or
more broadly - motor shaft directly drives wheel axle (shaft).
Anything else is not direct drive. I don't debate if it's reducer,
transmission, transaxle, whatever. It's just not direct drive
because if it was, there would be no distinction between real direct
drive (motor -> to wheel) and setup in your Zombie.
But I get your point, you don't like being literal. Oh, well,
this only lead to a need to explain to everybody every time what
exactly you mean by direct drive. Small enough inconvenience, isn't it?
We're still friends, are we? :-)
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
* This post contains a forbidden message format *
* (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
* Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT *
* If your postings display this message your mail program *
* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am tired of deleting theses emails on belly pan
plastic.
Choroplastic is being used by folks trying to get the
best Gas mileage possible. The biggest reason for a
belly pan is to reduce air drag or to make a vehicle
more aerodynamic. Chorplatic is used by cyclest to
build a more aerodynamic cycle. It is light weight. It
also does not shatter when rocks and gravel hit it. It
flexes. The Gasser are also using the choroplatic to
cover the rear wheel wells and the front grilles of
their vehicles. I belive Rick Suiter just wrote up a
post descripbing his use of Choroplastic and the
results decrease power useage. Choroplastic is also
very light weight on an already overweighted vehicle.
It is also very cheap and available from any sign
making shop, and free after elections. SO whats all
the discussion about. Get some Choroplastic and try it
out.
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> In a message dated 5/19/2007 3:17:29 PM Central
> Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> > Polycarbonate has very high impact resistance.
> ...
> > police riot face shields ... motorcycle helmets
> ...
>
>
> Polycarbonate is an extremely tough material Yes,
> but we are talking about
> using it with a line of holes along an outer edge
> mounted to a nearly
> overloaded vehicle whos frame is likely to
> occasionally flex. PC is very stiff and
> although it may work it would not be my first
> choice for a belly pan especially
> if all I had easy access to is the 1/8" material
> they use for window
> replacement. Other grades of PC can probably work
> well. All of the toughness examples
> you see deal with penetrating the center of the
> sheet. Has anybody used PC
> as a belly pan? Experience is king. I admit I have
> no experience in belly pans
> but I have plenty of experience in plastics and
> their mechanical properties.
> Rick Miller
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's
> free at http://www.aol.com.
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
(and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov kirjoitti:
Peter's definition is technically correct: direct drive is the
arrangement where motor directly drives wheel (as hub motor) or
more broadly - motor shaft directly drives wheel axle (shaft).
I agree on that.
It's our job to get these terms right. The hybrid stuff was already with
Prius a clear deception and misleading advertising. Same goes with some
companies with hybrid on their names.
I have MC with single gear. I was going to call it direct drive but
after going through the idea I was able to convince me out of it. It has
reduction due the different teeth amout on the sprockets in front and
rear. It's kinda direct but with two motors and one rear wheel...
I believe the EVT scooter (4000e) has also some soft of reduction gear
in the rear wheel (planetary).
I've seen only prototypes of direct drive for EV buses. Motor is
designed to rotate the needed revs. The hull of the motor is part of the
wheel. The spinnig part. Axel is static.
Anything else is not direct drive. I don't debate if it's reducer,
transmission, transaxle, whatever. It's just not direct drive
because if it was, there would be no distinction between real direct
drive (motor -> to wheel) and setup in your Zombie.
Victor
-Jukka
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, the good news is that I finally took off the
dash for the first time since completing the
conversion, and yanked the e-meter from its' little
hole where the side-view mirror motor controls _would_
be mounted in an LX or EX model-- and put it into a
"pod pillar." It's much more visible now.
Another thing I did was to install a Belktronix
DCDC converter. That means 60A of 12V, not 30.
SWEET, since my aux. battery is the wimpiest size.
That leaves a leftover DCP DCDC 350watt converter, now
listed on the EVTrading Post. It works _perfectly_.
But without the extra 12V _bipolar supply_ from the
DCP DCDC to the E-meter, I also installed a Belktronix
E-meter supply. And here is where it takes a poor
turn: I miswired the meter just enough to (what I'm
fairly certain is) damage the prescaler. It's
supposed to read 1.059 megs between in hot and out
hot, and mine is reading 1.067 megs. There is some
diode test too, but I haven't done that. I bought a
new one, and it works fine. Sooo if someone wants to
pay postage and gamble that they can melt the potting
compound, or somehow alter/repair the prescaler, it's
free except for the postage.
How cool to finally have digital current Ah,
voltage, etc. readings even when the car is _off_
now!!
Gotta' go drive summore!!!
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Finding fabulous fares is fun.
Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel
bargains.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
* This post contains a forbidden message format *
* (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
* Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT *
* If your postings display this message your mail program *
* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
--- End Message ---
