EV Digest 6795
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Dead start acceleration issues
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Electropolitan smokes tire, misses record
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Electropolitan smokes tire, misses record
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
4) Re: A123 Automotive Propulsion Battery
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Stock rims vs. aftermarket; also slotted rotors?
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: 92 Civvy gets a refurb! (parts leftover, anyone?)
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Dead start acceleration issues
by Michael Barkley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: A few newbie questions.
by robert mat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: AGNS Joins 100 MPH Club-Sets New NEDRA record
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: article: Electric Motorcycle: Test Drive (with Video)
by Ian Hooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Stock rims vs. aftermarket; also slotted rotors?
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Stock rims vs. aftermarket; also slotted rotors?
by Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: AGNS Joins 100 MPH Club-Sets New NEDRA record
by lyle sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: AGNS Joins 100 MPH Club-Sets New NEDRA record
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) RE: Stock rims vs. aftermarket; also slotted rotors?
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Stock rims vs. aftermarket; also slotted rotors?
by "Kip C. Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: AGNS Joins 100 MPH Club-Sets New NEDRA record
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Electropolitan smokes tire, misses record
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: New Pack and RudmenRegs
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Reality check, Re: Permanent magnet motor question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Semi-electronic controllers?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: AGNS Joins 100 MPH Club-Sets New NEDRA record
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
Having an ammeter on _both_ the battery side and motor side of things can
really help to find this type of issue.
Loose connections are a real bummer (and can be hard to track down).
Gone Postal instrument display here-
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/GP11.jpg
~~~~~~
Roy LeMeur
_________________________________________________________________
Like the way Microsoft Office Outlook works? Youll love Windows Live
Hotmail.
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_outlook_0507
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The way I read the rule is that you CAN use a posi, LS or locker. You just
have to retain the stock transaxle or rear end
housing. I even think you can run race axles if needed, as long as the housing
remains stock.
<snip>
Street Conversion Class (SC)
The Street Conversion (SC) class is for basic street legal and licensed
conversions that have not been modified for racing.
.....
Section 4: Drivetrain...
....Heavy duty and or modified rear axles, heavy duty and or modified front
drive transaxles, and heavy duty and or modified rear
transaxles assemblies allowed so long as the stock housing is retained. Heavy
duty and or modified transmissions
allowed.....Welded spider gears and spools not allowed...
<snip>
I take this to mean that since welded gears and spools are explicitly excluded,
then everything else like posi, LS and lockers are
allowed :-)
Get some traction man ;-)
> Shawn Lawless wrote:
>
> It doesn't look like the SC rules allow us to do much to the rear end
> like a posi or spool but the least we can do is some new tires for
> Power of DC. What a shame to have that kind of torque and nowhere to
> put it.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the info. I wonder if anyone makes a spool to fit a 1956
Metropolitan rear end. I haven't even looked.
The car was always so heavy that it had plenty of traction.
Shawn
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Sat, 19 May 2007 10:44 PM
Subject: RE: Electropolitan smokes tire, misses record
The way I read the rule is that you CAN use a posi, LS or locker. You
just have
to retain the stock transaxle or rear end
housing. I even think you can run race axles if needed, as long as the
housing
remains stock.
<snip>
Street Conversion Class (SC)
The Street Conversion (SC) class is for basic street legal and licensed
conversions that have not been modified for racing.
.....
Section 4: Drivetrain...
....Heavy duty and or modified rear axles, heavy duty and or modified
front
drive transaxles, and heavy duty and or modified rear
transaxles assemblies allowed so long as the stock housing is retained.
Heavy
duty and or modified transmissions
allowed.....Welded spider gears and spools not allowed...
<snip>
I take this to mean that since welded gears and spools are explicitly
excluded,
then everything else like posi, LS and lockers are
allowed :-)
Get some traction man ;-)
Shawn Lawless wrote:
It doesn't look like the SC rules allow us to do much to the rear end
like a posi or spool but the least we can do is some new tires for
Power of DC. What a shame to have that kind of torque and nowhere to
put it.
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Grumble. Another flash only, not even a simple backup link that works,
STUPID buggy, Bandwidth hogging Flash. Web designers who are sure they
know what I want, Line em up and shoot em as far as I am concerned.
Can you post me a link just pass the darn flash stuff so I can see the
content. (Flash is "blocked" on this 64bit OS)
My biggest fear is that you will have to be a Major car company to get
your hands on one and will have to agree not to divulge, sell, etc.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm wondering about the difference in braking with a
nice set of wheels. I've had stock Civic 13" rims
forever. If I get a set of 14" rims, any weight
savings (not that I need it) will be off-set by
heavier tires, and greater rolling resistance, I'd
imagine; a few more amps from a dead-stop getting it
all moving. Has anyone else done this type of switch
_with an EV and has actual anecdotal findings_?
Related issue is that I'd be doing this to get some
more air to my rotors, as well as improve the
cosmetics a bit. What are LISTers experience with
stopping distance, or am I better off to do
cross-drilled, slotted rotors?
I've read both ends of the spectrum: that it's the
greatest thing since sliced bread, and that it's snake
oil that does _nothing_ for stopping power.
Would be eager to here some perspectives.
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________Luggage?
GPS? Comic books?
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I hear you, but when the tech @ Xantrex gives me the
resistance to 4 significant digits, I'm guessing
there's a reason why...
Again, I haven't done the diode check. It's hard for
me to find on their website. I really need to try it
and find out if it was a bad connection which is all
better now, thanks to the re-mount...
peace,
--- Marty Hewes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Are you sure that's a problem? I know nothing about
> E-meters, but the
> difference between 1.059 and 1.067 megs is less than
> 1%. Most meters aren't
> that good, much less most electronics.
>
> Marty
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 5:44 PM
> Subject: 92 Civvy gets a refurb! (parts leftover,
> anyone?)
>
>
> Well, the good news is that I finally took off the
> dash for the first time since completing the
> conversion, and yanked the e-meter from its' little
> hole where the side-view mirror motor controls
> _would_
> be mounted in an LX or EX model-- and put it into a
> "pod pillar." It's much more visible now.
> Another thing I did was to install a Belktronix
> DCDC converter. That means 60A of 12V, not 30.
> SWEET, since my aux. battery is the wimpiest size.
> That leaves a leftover DCP DCDC 350watt converter,
> now
> listed on the EVTrading Post. It works _perfectly_.
>
> But without the extra 12V _bipolar supply_ from
> the
> DCP DCDC to the E-meter, I also installed a
> Belktronix
> E-meter supply. And here is where it takes a poor
> turn: I miswired the meter just enough to (what I'm
> fairly certain is) damage the prescaler. It's
> supposed to read 1.059 megs between in hot and out
> hot, and mine is reading 1.067 megs. There is some
> diode test too, but I haven't done that. I bought a
> new one, and it works fine. Sooo if someone wants
> to
> pay postage and gamble that they can melt the
> potting
> compound, or somehow alter/repair the prescaler,
> it's
> free except for the postage.
> How cool to finally have digital current Ah,
> voltage, etc. readings even when the car is _off_
> now!!
> Gotta' go drive summore!!!
>
> Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
> has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch
> too!
> Learn more at:
> www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
> ____
> __/__|__\ __
> =D-------/ - - \
> 'O'-----'O'-'
> Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came
> out of the steering
> wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Finding fabulous fares is fun.
> Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel
> sites to find flight and
> hotel bargains.
> http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097
>
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________Need
a vacation? Get great deals
to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
http://travel.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In my situation, I was able to send the controller
logs to Alltrax (using 7245 model), and they've come
back to me saying that the EV's controller is going
into current limit as soon as I try and start from a
dead stop at an incline. My test data was computed
from the EV, attempting to drive up on automotive
service ramps. It could not get up the ramps without a
rolling start. The 72vdc battery pack sagged down to
61 volts each time I attempted to drive up on the
ramps.
PS: I discovered that the BLEM's that I was using in
the car, were merely USED batteries. So they were
promptly returned, and am now on the lookout for
replacement batteries, hoping that the problem will be
resolved with a new pack that isn't soft, like the
used one's were.
I'll then install my PAKTRAKER battery monitor on the
new batteries, along with it's current sensor, and see
what it tells me about the battery bank during load,
it along with the controller monitor will give me amp
reading on the batteries, and the motor for reference.
Once, I resolve the inclined start issue, I'll be a
happy camper, and can then start on building an
electric riding lawnmower.
--- Roy LeMeur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Having an ammeter on _both_ the battery side and
> motor side of things can
> really help to find this type of issue.
>
> Loose connections are a real bummer (and can be hard
> to track down).
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Our experience (and thus, opinion) of the Powercheqs
is that the Powercheq battery balancer installs easily
in between 12AH batteries. The Powercheq operated at
up to 1.7A transfer (according to an in-line
multimeter) without getting hot, or even warm.
However, when the Powercheq battery balancer was
installed between two 130AH batteries that were 0.3V
apart, the 3A fuses blew instantly. Several tries
produced the same result.
Imho, the Powercheq can only be installed in my
batteries if the battery voltages are very close,
perhaps.
The Powercheqs don't operate instantly; there is a
delay of several seconds before they start operating.
Also, the green LED is relatively dim in bright indoor
light -- hard to see.
Unfortunately, the info I got from Powerdesigners'
techie appears to be incorrect, as it seemed initially
that the Powercheq had locked into some non-working
mode. Imho, the Powerdesigners didn't know what
happens with large [electric vehicle] batteries, with
voltage differentials of .3V or more.
My view is that the Powercheq is possibly of use in
electric bikes or scooters; however, our scooters'
batteries are within 0.02 volts of each other, even
after 4 years, in one case (therefore, the Powercheq
isn't going to help much, if any.)
Contrary to the Powercheq manual, the Powercheqs we
got didn't come with lugs.
--- "Barry C." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am new to this group and in the process of
> learning and searching for
> a good donor car. I have a few questions.
> 1. Is this the right place to ask basic newbie
> questions?
> 2. Does anyone use battery equalizers like
> Powercheq?
> 3. I also have been reading about the single point
> watering system,
> Aquapro. Do people use this type of system. They
> seem like it would be
> really helpful.
>
> I am wanting to build a EV that I can commute from
> Hayward to Oakland.
> Able to run 65-70mph. 35-50mi. And also have the
> ability to carry 2
> adults, 2 children for around the town errands on
> occasion.
> This is doable?
> Right now I was looking at a
> Ford escort wagon
> Warp 9 motor
> Curtis 1231 controller
> Trojan T145 6V batteries. (144V 24 batteries)
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________Get
the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing.
http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/index.php
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Congrats...again, to Shawn!!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Run # 1 flashed on the board as a 12.92 @ 102 MPH. AGNS is in the
club! An hr. later we got a chance to back it up. Run #2 showed the
12 old Hawkers were starting to come alive. 12.67 @ 106 MPH.
We all know that lithium is the holy grail, but boy those Hawkers sure
do rock!
From Roy:
>Hey Plasma Boy! Are you listening? This little bike is coming closer
to your MPHs and ETs. (@144V)
Yes, and I couldn't be any happier! The more EVers we have out on the
track blowing minds and changing perceptions, the better!
Shawn, you should load up some of your go-fast EVs and come out West and
play at either the Wayland Invitational III or the NEDRA Nationals in
August!
See Ya....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
While I hate to defend companies who over-hype their products, I
think there's a good chance it's a single-speed (dare I use the term
'direct drive') - 50mph is probably the RPM limit of the motor as
opposed to not having enough power to exceed aerodynamic drag at 50mph.
-Ian
On 20/05/2007, at 3:24 AM, Jukka Järvinen wrote:
They misprinted something here. It should have been: Electric
Scooter that looks like a MC.
... and again we get laughed at.. pisses me off... !!
-Jukka
p.s.- I got a new project. I'll list it to EValbum soon... :)
Paul Wujek kirjoitti:
short video of an EM from Popular Mechanics:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/automotive_news/4216271.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob-
Are you having problems with the stock brakes? If your car weighs more than
the GVWR, ( which never seems like a good idea to me), and that's the cause
of poor braking performance, you would probably be better off with upgrading
the brakes - from a different model, perhaps.
I don't see how changing the wheels would make much difference, except for
increased air flow to the discs. And, that would only make a difference on
very long braking situations ( long, steep hills).
What size tires do you have now, and what size would the new ones be? If
the new tire diameter is larger, that would reduce your braking
effectiveness ( require higher pedal pressures) compared to the existing
setup.
And, can you explain why you expect higher rolling resistance with the new
wheels/tires?
Phil
From: Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Stock rims vs. aftermarket; also slotted rotors?
Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 20:44:48 -0700 (PDT)
I'm wondering about the difference in braking with a
nice set of wheels. I've had stock Civic 13" rims
forever. If I get a set of 14" rims, any weight
savings (not that I need it) will be off-set by
heavier tires, and greater rolling resistance, I'd
imagine; a few more amps from a dead-stop getting it
all moving. Has anyone else done this type of switch
_with an EV and has actual anecdotal findings_?
Related issue is that I'd be doing this to get some
more air to my rotors, as well as improve the
cosmetics a bit. What are LISTers experience with
stopping distance, or am I better off to do
cross-drilled, slotted rotors?
I've read both ends of the spectrum: that it's the
greatest thing since sliced bread, and that it's snake
oil that does _nothing_ for stopping power.
Would be eager to here some perspectives.
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________Luggage?
GPS? Comic books?
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz
_________________________________________________________________
More photos, more messages, more storageget 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail.
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Bob,
don't expect any weight savings when you increase the wheel size,
unless you are going with racing wheels (and brought your
scale along with you when you chose them).
When you increase the size the amount of metal increases as well,
metal weighs more than rubber, even with the increased width.
Bigger wheels, being heavier, also come with a larger rotating mass.
When the customizers put large wheels on vehicles they often also
put on larger brakes to compensate for the rotating mass.
Bob Bath wrote:
I'm wondering about the difference in braking with a
nice set of wheels. I've had stock Civic 13" rims
forever. If I get a set of 14" rims, any weight
savings (not that I need it) will be off-set by
heavier tires, and greater rolling resistance, I'd
imagine; a few more amps from a dead-stop getting it
all moving. Has anyone else done this type of switch
_with an EV and has actual anecdotal findings_?
Related issue is that I'd be doing this to get some
more air to my rotors, as well as improve the
cosmetics a bit. What are LISTers experience with
stopping distance, or am I better off to do
cross-drilled, slotted rotors?
I've read both ends of the spectrum: that it's the
greatest thing since sliced bread, and that it's snake
oil that does _nothing_ for stopping power.
Would be eager to here some perspectives.
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz
--
Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
CONGRATS Shawn and Team !!!
You really need to post your bike on dragtimes.com . I
know I will vote for it.
Lyle
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On what was supposed to be a nice sunny day in
> Thompson Ohio The
> Lawless Industries AGNS bike and crew were looking
> for 4-5 good runs
> and a shot at both the NEDRA 144 volt motorcycle
> record and the 100 MPH
> club. Well unexpected rain put a damper on the fire
> but not until 2
> runs were in the books. Run # 1 flashed on the
> board as a 12.92 @ 102
> MPH. AGNS is in the club! An hr. later we got a
> chance to back it up.
> Run #2 showed the 12 old Hawkers were starting to
> come alive. 12.67 @
> 106 MPH. I believe that since these are more than
> 1% apart that the
> slower time of 12.92 will stand as the new NEDRA
> record. We started
> having visions of the 11's and 110+. We saw the rain
> coming but since
> the batteries were getting into their temperature
> comfort zone we went
> ahead and charged ole AGNS till she couldn't take
> any more. It wasn't
> meant to be. The rain came and we departed for a
> victory dinner,
> leaving behind a whole group of folks scratching
> their heads over how a
> silent little minibike can stay darn near a tricked
> up Hayabusa for
> half a track and keeps gets quicker and quicker
> every single run. Next
> stop 125 MPH Club. I cannot explain how much darn
> fun this little bike
> has become.
>
> Dear Mr. Rudman, per your comments of a few days
> ago... AGNS will be at
> the track on Wednesday with sights on the 168 volt
> record of 12.49 @
> 100 MPH. Prepare to eat your hat.
>
> Shawn Lawless
>
________________________________________________________________________
> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out
> more about what's free
> from AOL at AOL.com.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
TV dinner still cooling?
Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.
http://tv.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks John,
Those Hawkers do Rock hard. Denis said they were still pulling at 1/4
mile. The numbers back him up. He gained 25 MPH the second 1/8. I
just got in some new v28's but haven't felt the urgency to switch back
to Lithium just yet. AGNS is going to need every one of them in the
future if she is going to breath any harder on the back of Bill's neck.
I'm going to start heating up the bats artificially. What do you
think is the perfect temp for absolute max output?
There is no doubt traditional trains of thought are being challenged
every time we go to the track. In a few short hrs yesterday we had
probably 20-25 folks make the trip over to our setup and inquire or
comment on just how we were going so fast with no noise. Performance
talks. Speaking of that, the attention that Bill has garnered with his
Killacycle is working nationwide. It seems every biker that asks about
our bike has a story about some guy out west running low 8's at 150+.
If they know about it in rural Ohio, they've got to know about it at
almost every track in the country.
I haven't been out that way since my trip to Bob Boyd's 5 years ago.
It's about time for another.
Shawn
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Sun, 20 May 2007 12:06 AM
Subject: Re: AGNS Joins 100 MPH Club-Sets New NEDRA record
Hello to All,
Congrats...again, to Shawn!!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Run # 1 flashed on the board as a 12.92 @ 102 MPH. AGNS is in the >
club! An hr. later we got a chance to back it up. Run #2 showed the >
12 old Hawkers were starting to come alive. 12.67 @ 106 MPH.
We all know that lithium is the holy grail, but boy those Hawkers sure
do rock!
From Roy:
Hey Plasma Boy! Are you listening? This little bike is coming closer
to your MPHs and ETs. (@144V)
Yes, and I couldn't be any happier! The more EVers we have out on the
track blowing minds and changing perceptions, the better!
Shawn, you should load up some of your go-fast EVs and come out West
and play at either the Wayland Invitational III or the NEDRA Nationals
in August!
See Ya....John Wayland
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
=0
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not having problems with the stock brakes, but let's
be honest: It's like driving a Civic with four
passengers in it wherever I go. If I made a change,
it would strictly be for the added stopping distance
in an emergency.
Most of the people selling aftermarket wheels
(Craiglist, E-bay) have wider tires on them, not my
175/70R13, hence my prediction about more rolling
resistance.
--- Phil Marino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Bob-
>
> Are you having problems with the stock brakes? If
> your car weighs more than
> the GVWR, ( which never seems like a good idea to
> me), and that's the cause
> of poor braking performance, you would probably be
> better off with upgrading
> the brakes - from a different model, perhaps.
>
> I don't see how changing the wheels would make much
> difference, except for
> increased air flow to the discs. And, that would
> only make a difference on
> very long braking situations ( long, steep hills).
>
>
> What size tires do you have now, and what size would
> the new ones be? If
> the new tire diameter is larger, that would reduce
> your braking
> effectiveness ( require higher pedal pressures)
> compared to the existing
> setup.
>
> And, can you explain why you expect higher rolling
> resistance with the new
> wheels/tires?
>
>
> Phil
>
>
>
> >From: Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> >To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> >Subject: Stock rims vs. aftermarket; also slotted
> rotors?
> >Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 20:44:48 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >I'm wondering about the difference in braking with
> a
> >nice set of wheels. I've had stock Civic 13" rims
> >forever. If I get a set of 14" rims, any weight
> >savings (not that I need it) will be off-set by
> >heavier tires, and greater rolling resistance, I'd
> >imagine; a few more amps from a dead-stop getting
> it
> >all moving. Has anyone else done this type of
> switch
> >_with an EV and has actual anecdotal findings_?
> > Related issue is that I'd be doing this to get
> some
> >more air to my rotors, as well as improve the
> >cosmetics a bit. What are LISTers experience with
> >stopping distance, or am I better off to do
> >cross-drilled, slotted rotors?
> >
> >I've read both ends of the spectrum: that it's the
> >greatest thing since sliced bread, and that it's
> snake
> >oil that does _nothing_ for stopping power.
> >
> >Would be eager to here some perspectives.
> >
> >Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
> >has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch
> too!
> >Learn more at:
> >www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
> > ____
> > __/__|__\ __
> > =D-------/ - - \
> > 'O'-----'O'-'
> >Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came
> out of the steering
> >wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
> >
> >
> >
>
>____________________________________________________________________________________Luggage?
>
> >GPS? Comic books?
> >Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search
>
>http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz
> >
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
> More photos, more messages, more storageget 2GB
> with Windows Live Hotmail.
>
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the
Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
With respect to the brakes, most vehicles have been designed from the
factory to handle at least one very hard stop from the respective top speed
of the vehicle. Obviously the added weight of batteries will reduce the top
speed a vehicle can effectively brake from, but considering that for most
cars that is coming down from somewhere over the 100 mph mark, there's
likely some headroom left unless you drive your EV that fast!
That said, fluid quality and airflow are the least expensive and first
places to start. After that, good high performance pads are an excellent
investment. Venting and slotting are more of the icing on the cake and the
last thing to worry about after addressing the fluid, airflow, and sizing of
the rotors because it really doesn't make that much of a difference.
Fluid integrity is the first thing that should be addressed no matter what
however. If it is not fresh and contains significant moisture, it will
lower the boiling point and stopping capacity substantially. Replace it and
bleed the system thoroughly before attempting to evaluate the need for
braking improvements.
Airflow can have a very large impact on performance as well. Unfortunately
wheels alone aren't likely to foster much of a change there, as the dynamics
of the airflow around the rest of the car still remain relatively unchanged.
The best bet there is add or improve ducting to the inside of the rotor hub.
It can make enough of a difference to eliminate the need for anything else.
As an example, I used to race a Datsun pickup in autocrosses and do test and
tune days at Portland International Raceway. The first time I took the
truck which was not much lighter nor much more powerful than stock to the
raceway, I was experiencing extreme fade by the second lap and out in the
weeds at the end of the front straight by the 5th full speed lap due to a
nearly complete loss of braking. Inspection of the rotors suggested that
not only had I likely boiled the fluid, but the pad material itself had
begun to break down and was fusing to the rotors. If the truck hadn't
started spinning, it's unlikely I would have stopped before hitting the
wall. The next time I took the truck to the track, the only change to the
braking system was air ducting, as there really weren't any other easy
alternatives available to address the pad issue. The ducting did not
completely eliminate fade, but it never got as bad as it did the first time
out, and I was able to brake more deeply lap after lap without a
catastrophic failure like the previous time.
As far as pads go, don't get the regular off-the-shelf 'high performance'
semi-metallics. Do your research by talking to racers as far as what really
works for what type of braking abuse. I've seen a fresh set of these so
called 'high performance' pads literally disintegrate under extreme use.
What works for something like autocross however may not last under extended
duration braking such as descending the Siskyou Pass, but they may
significantly improve response around town. Likewise, harder pad material
may lack the best response around town, but provide nearly endless bite to
long duration braking - sometimes at the expense of accelerated rotor wear,
but you will still be able to stop. Likely there is a middle ground to be
found. (I prefer AXXIS Metal Master pads for all around abuse because they
are relatively cheap and have a broad range of effectiveness.)
Summing these three factors up, if you aren't able to turn your rotors blue
from overheating, then there is still room for improvement without worrying
about things like the size of them or cross drilling and such.
Discoloration and smoke was a regular occurance on my STi at the track, but
the brakes never quit until airflow stagnated while idling into the pits.
(Pedal softness suggested boiling fluid.)
- Kip
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 8:44 PM
Subject: Stock rims vs. aftermarket; also slotted rotors?
I'm wondering about the difference in braking with a
nice set of wheels. I've had stock Civic 13" rims
forever. If I get a set of 14" rims, any weight
savings (not that I need it) will be off-set by
heavier tires, and greater rolling resistance, I'd
imagine; a few more amps from a dead-stop getting it
all moving. Has anyone else done this type of switch
_with an EV and has actual anecdotal findings_?
Related issue is that I'd be doing this to get some
more air to my rotors, as well as improve the
cosmetics a bit. What are LISTers experience with
stopping distance, or am I better off to do
cross-drilled, slotted rotors?
I've read both ends of the spectrum: that it's the
greatest thing since sliced bread, and that it's snake
oil that does _nothing_ for stopping power.
Would be eager to here some perspectives.
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
HI- Congratulations on your great speeds and times. It sounds like
after Wed. I'll have to try to talk Winners Automotive into dusting off
"Dragon Rose" and get back to the track.
I don't think many people realize how difficult going from 90 mph to
100mph electricly is.
it took me 7 years.
Good luck wed. Father Time
> [Original Message]
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Date: 5/19/2007 5:50:43 PM
> Subject: AGNS Joins 100 MPH Club-Sets New NEDRA record
>
> On what was supposed to be a nice sunny day in Thompson Ohio The
> Lawless Industries AGNS bike and crew were looking for 4-5 good runs
> and a shot at both the NEDRA 144 volt motorcycle record and the 100 MPH
> club. Well unexpected rain put a damper on the fire but not until 2
> runs were in the books. Run # 1 flashed on the board as a 12.92 @ 102
> MPH. AGNS is in the club! An hr. later we got a chance to back it up.
> Run #2 showed the 12 old Hawkers were starting to come alive. 12.67 @
> 106 MPH. I believe that since these are more than 1% apart that the
> slower time of 12.92 will stand as the new NEDRA record. We started
> having visions of the 11's and 110+. We saw the rain coming but since
> the batteries were getting into their temperature comfort zone we went
> ahead and charged ole AGNS till she couldn't take any more. It wasn't
> meant to be. The rain came and we departed for a victory dinner,
> leaving behind a whole group of folks scratching their heads over how a
> silent little minibike can stay darn near a tricked up Hayabusa for
> half a track and keeps gets quicker and quicker every single run. Next
> stop 125 MPH Club. I cannot explain how much darn fun this little bike
> has become.
>
> Dear Mr. Rudman, per your comments of a few days ago... AGNS will be at
> the track on Wednesday with sights on the 168 volt record of 12.49 @
> 100 MPH. Prepare to eat your hat.
>
> Shawn Lawless
> ________________________________________________________________________
> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
> from AOL at AOL.com.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
HI-
Remember no 'SPOOLS' or welded spider gears.
FT.
> [Original Message]
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Date: 5/19/2007 8:18:16 PM
> Subject: Re: Electropolitan smokes tire, misses record
>
> Thanks for the info. I wonder if anyone makes a spool to fit a 1956
> Metropolitan rear end. I haven't even looked.
> The car was always so heavy that it had plenty of traction.
>
> Shawn
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Sent: Sat, 19 May 2007 10:44 PM
> Subject: RE: Electropolitan smokes tire, misses record
>
> The way I read the rule is that you CAN use a posi, LS or locker. You
> just have
> to retain the stock transaxle or rear end
> housing. I even think you can run race axles if needed, as long as the
> housing
> remains stock.
>
> <snip>
> Street Conversion Class (SC)
> The Street Conversion (SC) class is for basic street legal and licensed
> conversions that have not been modified for racing.
> .....
> Section 4: Drivetrain...
> ....Heavy duty and or modified rear axles, heavy duty and or modified
> front
> drive transaxles, and heavy duty and or modified rear
> transaxles assemblies allowed so long as the stock housing is retained.
> Heavy
> duty and or modified transmissions
> allowed.....Welded spider gears and spools not allowed...
> <snip>
>
> I take this to mean that since welded gears and spools are explicitly
> excluded,
> then everything else like posi, LS and lockers are
> allowed :-)
>
> Get some traction man ;-)
>
> > Shawn Lawless wrote:
> >
> > It doesn't look like the SC rules allow us to do much to the rear end
> > like a posi or spool but the least we can do is some new tires for
> > Power of DC. What a shame to have that kind of torque and nowhere to
> > put it.
> >
> >
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
> from AOL at AOL.com.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab writes:
>
> I am putting in a new pack of orbitals and was wanting to put the
> regulators other than on top of the batteries. How do I use the external
> temperature probe? mounts to post or goop to side of battery? Is it a
> Thermocouple or an RTD or a thermister.?
Jeff,
I believe that the external temperature probe is intended to measure
the temperature of an external load.
The battery temperature measurement is done with a diode on the PCB. It
would be possible to unsolder it and mount it remote from the regulator,
but it's not as easy as just plugging into a connector...
Ralph
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Frank John wrote:
Would a contactor controller be more efficient with a PM motor
because you can directly control motor voltage? Wouldn't a regular
PWM controller do this automatically?
A contactor controller can be more efficient than a PWM controller; but
the improvemement is slight. To get a few percent improvement in
efficiency, you give up smooth stepless control.
Here are typical voltage drops for the different kinds of switches you
can use for a controller:
0.025v connector, terminal, etc.
0.05v switch, contactor, fuse, etc.
0.5v schottky diode, MOSFET transistor
1v silicon diode, bipolar transistor
1.5v SCR, darlington transistor
3v IGBT transistor
For example, a CitiCar contactor controller has 3 contactors in series
for any given speed step, plus about 10 connections; (0.05 x 3) + (10 x
0.025v) = 0.4v. It has a 48v pack, so the efficiency is about
(48v-0.4v)/48v = 99%.
A Curtis PWM controller has a MOSFET and a diode; 0.5v + 1v = 1.5v. For
a PWM controller, double this voltage drop to account for switching
losses; 1.5v x 2 = 3v. In a 48v Citicar, efficiency is about
(48v-3v)/48v = 94%.
A 4-quadrant reversing/regen controller with an IGBT would have 1 IGBT
and 1 diode in series; (3v + 1v) x 2 = 8v drop, and an efficiency of
(48v-8v)/48v = 83%. Now you see why we don't use IGBTs in low voltage
controllers.
As pack voltage goes up, controller losses become a smaller part of the
total. The IGBT controller with a 400v pack is (300v-8v)/300v = 97%
efficient. Now you know why IGBT controllers are usually built for high
voltage packs.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tom Gocze wrote:
How about a contactor/rectactor type controller that used some form of
electronic switching, not PWM, but just an electronic on off switch?
Sure; this has been done. Many controllers are hybrids; they have a PWM
controller, plus contactors for on/off and forward/reverse switching.
Very high power motor controllers use IGBTs or SCRs for their switches,
but wire them to switch the motor and/or supply voltage into various
series/parallel combinations much as you would a contactor controller.
Seems like most of the distress that people have with contactor
controllers is the noise.
Of course, switches and contactors don't have to make any noise. There
are lots of silent ones. Mercury switches, rotary switches, knife
switches, and slide switches are pretty quiet. But for most
applications, customers don't care if it makes noise, and "clack/clunk"
based contactors are cheaper; so that's what gets sold.
Or as Jerry Dycus said, you can put them in a soundproof box.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
* This post contains a forbidden message format *
* (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
* Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT *
* If your postings display this message your mail program *
* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
--- End Message ---
