EV Digest 6810
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: EV digest 6808
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) AGNS misses 168 record
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) RE: AGNS misses 168 record
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Electric motor for air conditioning or power steering
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Watt-hour semantics question
by Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Electric motor for air conditioning or power steering
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Raptor 600 problem
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8) RE: Electric motor for air conditioning or power steering
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: AGNuS up close and personal
by "Garret Maki" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: How regen works
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Raptor 600 problem
by "Andrew A." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Raptor 600 problem
by Steven Ciciora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Electric motor for air conditioning or power steering
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Reality check, Re: Permanent magnet motor question
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Aircraft Generator starting torque issue. - Resolved!!
by Michael Barkley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Watt-hour semantics question
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Address change
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) Re: AGNuS up close and personal
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
19) RE: Aircraft Generator starting torque issue. - Resolved!!
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Electric motor for air conditioning or power steering
by "Guy Stockwell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Ground and neutral connections for isolation transformer
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: White Zombie gets to 'test' drive Lithium!
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Electric motor for air conditioning or power steering
by "Victor N. Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Wednesday was a day of anomalies.
1. The Electropolitan twists up her driveshaft at 50 MPH.
2. A Bat reg catches fire.
3. Perfect weather in Thompson OH wih no wind, no clouds, and 87
degrees.
4. AGNS runs a 12.888 at 103, a 12.818 at 103, and a 12.888 at 103.
5. AGNS runs 95 MPH in the 1/8 only to fall on her face 3 times and
limp to 103 MPH in the 1/4
5. A Zilla hairball fails after run 2 with a bad internal connection.
All in all just a weird but fun day. About the 168 runs:
It became apparent after 1 run that the 2 batteries I stole from the
Metro to bump AGNS' volts to 168 were not on the same cycle path as the
other 12. I cycled them through and brought up to temp 3 times before
we went to track but after run #1 when I talked to Denis, looked at the
time slip, measured battery temp, and watched the bats fill back up it
was painfully clear they were not up to snuff. AGNS roared out to 95
in the 1/8th them fell asleep 3 times to finish at 103. Compare this
to Saturday when she only ran 81 in the 1/8th and pulled all the way
to 106 in the 1/4. My fault. We finished our first two runs at 7:30,
recharged and were in line for eliminations when the hairball
connection failed. We checked everything but could not get the main
contactor off light to glow. By the time I found that the plug for the
2 voltage inputs was loose it was too late, we missed our turn and were
out. Too bad because with times of 12.888, 12.817 , and 12.888 I would
say we were dead consistent. We finally got a consolation run at 10:30
pm. I taped up the hairball to put enough pressure on the input plug
to make it work and we ran exactly the same time again. Who wants
consistently slow? Not me. Give me a 1/2 second breakout any day! A
real life lesson that once again proves....
IT'S THE BATTERIES STUPID!
Shawn
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It is a strange warped fellow who calls 12.8 @ 103mph on a minibike slow!!
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 8:03 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: AGNS misses 168 record
>
> Wednesday was a day of anomalies.
>
> 1. The Electropolitan twists up her driveshaft at 50 MPH.
> 2. A Bat reg catches fire.
> 3. Perfect weather in Thompson OH wih no wind, no clouds, and 87
> degrees.
> 4. AGNS runs a 12.888 at 103, a 12.818 at 103, and a 12.888 at 103.
> 5. AGNS runs 95 MPH in the 1/8 only to fall on her face 3 times and
> limp to 103 MPH in the 1/4
> 5. A Zilla hairball fails after run 2 with a bad internal connection.
>
> All in all just a weird but fun day. About the 168 runs:
> It became apparent after 1 run that the 2 batteries I stole from the
> Metro to bump AGNS' volts to 168 were not on the same cycle path as the
> other 12. I cycled them through and brought up to temp 3 times before
> we went to track but after run #1 when I talked to Denis, looked at the
> time slip, measured battery temp, and watched the bats fill back up it
> was painfully clear they were not up to snuff. AGNS roared out to 95
> in the 1/8th them fell asleep 3 times to finish at 103. Compare this
> to Saturday when she only ran 81 in the 1/8th and pulled all the way
> to 106 in the 1/4. My fault. We finished our first two runs at 7:30,
> recharged and were in line for eliminations when the hairball
> connection failed. We checked everything but could not get the main
> contactor off light to glow. By the time I found that the plug for the
> 2 voltage inputs was loose it was too late, we missed our turn and were
> out. Too bad because with times of 12.888, 12.817 , and 12.888 I would
> say we were dead consistent. We finally got a consolation run at 10:30
> pm. I taped up the hairball to put enough pressure on the input plug
> to make it work and we ran exactly the same time again. Who wants
> consistently slow? Not me. Give me a 1/2 second breakout any day! A
> real life lesson that once again proves....
> IT'S THE BATTERIES STUPID!
>
> Shawn
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
> from AOL at AOL.com.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually the SIERRA line on the masterflux website looks to be a good
unit. It runs with R134A and will run on DC from 48V to 100 V. The
spec sheets say it can drive a 45 degree evaporator temperature. The
big question in my mind is HOW MUCH!!!!
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dustin Stern
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 15:09
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Electric motor for air conditioning or power steering
That's cheaper and lighter than the one offer by ElectroAutomotive - or
that I've found anywhere else, as I've also been looking.
By the way have you seen the electric compressor units at
http://www.masterflux.com/ ?
Although I can't seem to get an email reply, they have some ideal units.
Dustin
On May 23, 2007, Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G wrote:
> Does anyone think that this motor will work to drive a power steering
> pump or an AC pump?
>
>
> http://www.e-motorsonline.com/emotors/viewproduct_dcm.php?catid=2&Pid=
> DC
> M00116
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<The Wh/mi from the AC outlet is only really of value for comparing per
mile operating costs with ICE vehicles, so its value is of less
practical interest.>
This is true but becomes more important when the issue of electrifying the
transportation system is considered. With a significant number of vehicles
using electricity instead of oil, charger or battery inefficiencies can make a
larger impact on grid capacity, pollution, etc.
____________________________________________________________________________________Need
a vacation? Get great deals
to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
http://travel.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There are 90vdc 1.5+hp PM treadmill motors on EBay all the time. Usually less
than 50 bucks. Why wouldn't one of those work?
I was on my tread for 1.5hrs the other day, when I got off it my wife got on
for another 30mins. I don't think duty-cycle will be a problem.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Dustin Stern
> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 3:09 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Electric motor for air conditioning or power steering
>
>
> That's cheaper and lighter than the one offer by ElectroAutomotive - or
> that I've found anywhere else, as I've also been looking.
>
> By the way have you seen the electric compressor units at
> http://www.masterflux.com/ ?
> Although I can't seem to get an email reply, they have some ideal units.
>
> Dustin
>
> On May 23, 2007, Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G wrote:
>
>> Does anyone think that this motor will work to drive a power steering
>> pump or an AC pump?
>>
>>
>>
> http://www.e-motorsonline.com/emotors/viewproduct_dcm.php?catid=2&Pid=DC
>> M00116
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Raptor doesn't use a 0-5 kohm potentiometer. it uses hall effect pedal.
I don't know what it reads?, because I've never tried.
Andrew, contact me off list, and I'll get you the tech support phone number
which is Pete Skenosky.
Peter built it, so he probably know better than anyone what/if anything
needs repair.
Hopefully it is as easy as a problem with your pedal.
Why don't you unplug for RPM sensor for troubleshooting purposes. I don't
use mine anymore (a risk I take). Peter had the previous owner take it out.
It will limit the motor RPM's
Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I haven't tried a treadmil motor. I agree that they would work if one
could be found that matched the pack voltage closely enough. Since mine
is a 120V system I found one on ebay that was for 130V with a low
voltage spec of 95V. They had it for $50. Item # is 120123978153. I
think 1 1/2 horsepower should be enough for a power steering pump.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tim Humphrey
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 9:06
To: EV
Subject: RE: Electric motor for air conditioning or power steering
There are 90vdc 1.5+hp PM treadmill motors on EBay all the time. Usually
less than 50 bucks. Why wouldn't one of those work?
I was on my tread for 1.5hrs the other day, when I got off it my wife
got on for another 30mins. I don't think duty-cycle will be a problem.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of Dustin Stern
> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 3:09 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Electric motor for air conditioning or power steering
>
>
> That's cheaper and lighter than the one offer by ElectroAutomotive -
> or that I've found anywhere else, as I've also been looking.
>
> By the way have you seen the electric compressor units at
> http://www.masterflux.com/ ?
> Although I can't seem to get an email reply, they have some ideal
units.
>
> Dustin
>
> On May 23, 2007, Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G wrote:
>
>> Does anyone think that this motor will work to drive a power steering
>> pump or an AC pump?
>>
>>
>>
> http://www.e-motorsonline.com/emotors/viewproduct_dcm.php?catid=2&Pid=
> DC
>> M00116
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You did a 106 mph 1/4 mile on That! Wow, gutsy man. Hat's off to ya.
Must by scary with the knobby front tire. I bet she doesn't brake so
well either :) It handles alright for you though?
-Garret
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chip Gribben
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 4:47 PM
To: EV Discussion List
Subject: AGNuS up close and personal
For those who want to take a real good look at the bike that is
causing NEDRA MT records to fall here it is
http://www.nedra.com/photos/100mphclub/agnus_640.jpg
And the latest entry for the NEDRA 100 MPH Club with the picture and
the technical specs
http://www.nedra.com/100mph_club.html#agnus
Shawn is going for another record tonight.
Chip Gribben
NEDRA
http://www.nedra.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
George,
I have worked with ACIM, 3 phase inverter drives and
regeneration. They do not require extra converter
hardware. The motor windings will serve as inductors
and the 3 phase bridge as a "booster" to regen even at
low speed. Of course there is always a low speed
limit where your kinetic energy dips below system loss
energy and it is no longer possible to charge battery.
This is usually a pretty low vehicle speed, a couple
of mph.
I prefer a two input control. That is something like
a PB-6 for the accelerator and a PB-6 for the brake
pedal. The brake pedal usually has about an inch or
so of travel before it starts squeezing the pads. I
use this for a spring loaded linkage to the PB-6,
giving full throw while still allowing further travel
of the pedal without bending the PB-6 arm.
The inverter control is configured for the accel pot
to give a positive torque command and the brake pot a
negative torque command. So without further
programming, if the vehicle is traveling forward and
you give negative torque command, it will slow down
and energy will flow into the battery. This will
actually continue, bring the vehicle to a stop and
accelerate it in reverse. Obviuosly, at some point,
energy will stop going into the battery and start
coming from the battery. Maybe about 2 or 3 mph.
Kind of scary to drive, once you start going
backwards, further pressure on the brake (which you
would normally do to stop) only increases backwards
acceleration. You have to use the accel pedal to stop
going bacwards.
Well, after driving that way for a few days, I
actually got used to it, but figured it needed a
solution. Some programming was added to fade out
negative torque command as frequency (speed)
approached zero. So the regen braking works with a
light pressure on the brake pedal and gently fades as
the vehicle approaches a stop, requiring additional
foot pressure, which is naturally intuitive.
A similar algorithm was added at the top end to limit
voltage rise. So as the voltage approaches the
maximum for the battery, negative torque command is
reduced. Again, driver feel is very intuitive. As
the regen torque fades, he just pushes down the pedal
and gets a blend of electric torque and friction
torque.
So, my experience is that all it takes to get
regeneration with a ACIM drive is an extra PB-6 and
some code. Almost a free lunch.
Jeff
--- George Swartz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Dale, On AC systems, in order to get full regen
> down to low speeds, you
> must rectify the AC output to a DC bus, then apply a
> boost chopper to boost
> voltage and get energy to flow into the battery. It
> seems that there is no
> free lunch.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, 23 May 2007 10:55:14 -0600, Dale Ulan wrote
> > A sepex or compound winding plus a shunt chopper
> makes regen easiest
> > to do in my opinion. Series motor regen without
> field reversal is
> > difficult
> >
> > Other than on an AC system, where regen is even
> easier - 'only software'.
> >
> > -Dale
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________Get
the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware
protection.
http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/norton/index.php
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not silly at all. It actually did turn out to be a
problem with the way I had mounted the inductive
throttle sensor (that's what the Raptor uses, not an
potentiometer). Apparently, I had installed it so that
the slug was far enough out of the coil that it was
out of range of the controller's calibration.
I still haven't been able to get the yellow
full-throttle light to come on, though.
Thanks for the help!
Andrew
> > From: "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Subject: Re: Raptor 600 problem
> Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 01:25:29 -0700
>
> Maybe a silly question, But have you checked your
> throttle pot to make sure
> it's putting out the right resistance, and traveling
> the full range?
>
> -Phil
____________________________________________________________________________________Got
a little couch potato?
Check out fun summer activities for kids.
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs=bz
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The one I have isn't technically a hall effect pedal,
but a coil of wire who's inductance changes with
throttle position. It resonates with a capacitor
inside the controller, and the PIC processor measures
the change in frequency.
Back when I was having trouble with mine (I guess I'm
still having trouble, since I have not fixed it yet
:-) it was suggested that maybe noise was getting in
on the tach cable, fooling the controller into
thinking the RPMs were higher than they actually were.
Not the problem with mine, though, but you (the
person having trouble) might try disconnecting the
tach cable.
I started reverse engineering the schematic for mine,
but stopped after Bill Dube' lent me his spare
controller. I lost my motivation to finish that
project... I should get back to it before he asks for
his controller back! Isn't there someone else on the
list who was also trying to figure out the schematic?
Maybe we should compare notes.
- Steven Ciciora
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The Raptor doesn't use a 0-5 kohm potentiometer. it
> uses hall effect pedal.
> I don't know what it reads?, because I've never
> tried.
>
> Andrew, contact me off list, and I'll get you the
> tech support phone number
> which is Pete Skenosky.
> Peter built it, so he probably know better than
> anyone what/if anything
> needs repair.
>
> Hopefully it is as easy as a problem with your
> pedal.
>
> Why don't you unplug for RPM sensor for
> troubleshooting purposes. I don't
> use mine anymore (a risk I take). Peter had the
> previous owner take it out.
> It will limit the motor RPM's
>
> Ben
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the
Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
www.surplussales.com has 1000's of these thread mill motors in stock for
about $20.00 each. They only problem is that you will have to reinforce the
front sheet metal bearing holder. The bearing holder collapses in the
direction of the belt pull. I use two 1/4 inch thick aluminum plates on
both side of this flange.
You can get these type of motors that have been improve and modified with
enclose large brush holders from the Thread Mill Doctor for about $160.00
each which are about 3 HP continuous.
Also, these are about 8000 rpm at 100 volts at 1.75 hp and has a peak hp of
3 hp. I am using about 48 volts from four DC DC Iota converter in series
which slows down these motors to about 4000 rpm and than using a 2:1 pulley,
it bring the rpm down to about 2000 rpm. Also I have gang two of these
motor in parallel off the same belt which gives me 3.5 hp continuous or 6 hp
peak.
I am running a alternator, A/C and vacuum pump which draws a peak ampere of
40 amps or about 20 amps per motor. Normally I am running at 13 amps per
motor.
I also running these accessories with the pilot shaft of the main motor
using a electric clutch made from a clutch of a A/C unit as a back up and to
assist the start up of these units, because the start up load may be at a
greater rating of these motors.
The motor is about 3-1/8 inch in diameter. I made a external fan holder and
brush cover by slipping on a 3 inch I.D. PVC pipe which I increase the I.D.
diameter to 3-1/8 and JB Weld on a plastic flange to hold a 12 volt box fan.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 7:06 AM
Subject: RE: Electric motor for air conditioning or power steering
>
>
>
> There are 90vdc 1.5+hp PM treadmill motors on EBay all the time. Usually
> less than 50 bucks. Why wouldn't one of those work?
>
> I was on my tread for 1.5hrs the other day, when I got off it my wife got
> on for another 30mins. I don't think duty-cycle will be a problem.
>
> --
> Stay Charged!
> Hump
> I-5, Blossvale NY
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Dustin Stern
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 3:09 PM
> > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > Subject: Re: Electric motor for air conditioning or power steering
> >
> >
> > That's cheaper and lighter than the one offer by ElectroAutomotive - or
> > that I've found anywhere else, as I've also been looking.
> >
> > By the way have you seen the electric compressor units at
> > http://www.masterflux.com/ ?
> > Although I can't seem to get an email reply, they have some ideal units.
> >
> > Dustin
> >
> > On May 23, 2007, Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G wrote:
> >
> >> Does anyone think that this motor will work to drive a power steering
> >> pump or an AC pump?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > http://www.e-motorsonline.com/emotors/viewproduct_dcm.php?catid=2&Pid=DC
> >> M00116
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>
>> Anyway you slice it, 99% is approximately 5% more efficient than 94%
>
> Really? How do you figure? Is it because 94+5=99? I really want to know.
Efficiency is very well defined; output divided by input. When expressed
as a percentage you multiply the result by 100.
(99-94)/99 =~ 5%
99% - 94% = 5%
The rules of math are very simply. Twice means to multiply by 2,
increasing something by 5 means to add 5.
Perhaps the rules are different where you were educated, however, I
thought the rules of mathematics where universal.
As has already been pointed out, by your rules if someone was to claim
they had produced a solar cell that was twice as efficient as a 10%
efficient cell, it would have to be 55% efficient.
After all the losses on a 10% cell are 90%, so 1/2 of 90% = 45%, since you
are claiming that doubleing efficiency means the same thing as cutting
losses in 1/2
Unless you are claiming that the rules change depending on your mood or
desired outcome? I find it hard to believe that any system of mathematics
has rules like that though.
>
> So what happens if I improve already 99% efficient design and make it
> yet 5% more efficient [5% improvement of that 99% gadget]?
But that is NOT possible, at least not in this universe.
99% + (.05 * 99) =~ 104%
There is no way you can improve a 99% efficient gadget by 5%.
You can reduce it's losses by 5%. But that is NOT THE SAME as improving
it's efficency 5%.
1/2 does NOT equal 2
1/5 does NOT equal 5
> It's percentage of percentage Peter. Unless I misunderstood you, indeed
> appears like common misconception but on your part. Please re-think
> or elaborate.
I don't know how I can put it more clearly. If you are still having
trouble with these concepts, I'd suggest visiting a library and reading a
textbook on percentages
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"Holy Batman" as Robin would have put it. Jeff, I
reversed the wires on the motor as you said, tapped
off with 36 volts to the field termainal. Now I can
spin the tires in 1st, do 45mph in 2nd, 55mph in 3rd,
and 65mph in 4th, and still have pedal remaining.
Thank you so much for the help. Now I've got to come
up with 36volts worth of batteries to mount under the
hood just for the field power.
Thanks again, all you guys for your help, you all
ROCK!!! www.TexomaEV.com
--- Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Michael,
>
> Try reversing leads on the motor. Take motor
> terminal
> B and connect to controller terminal M-. Motor
> terminal E to B+. And then motor terminal A (field)
> to 36 volt tap of battery pack. This should power
> the
> shunt field with the upper half of the battery pack,
> in the correct direction.
>
> I think the way you did it you was to try to use the
> lower half of battery pack, then when the chopper
> was
> on, it brought up the voltage at motor terminal E to
> higher than mid 36 volt. So the field was
> conducting
> backwards.
>
> Jeff
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
> <The Wh/mi from the AC outlet is only really of value for comparing per
> mile operating costs with ICE vehicles, so its value is of less
> practical interest.>
>
>
> This is true but becomes more important when the issue of electrifying the
> transportation system is considered. With a significant number of
> vehicles using electricity instead of oil, charger or battery
> inefficiencies can make a larger impact on grid capacity, pollution, etc.
If sometime in the far distant future we get to the point where a
significant number of EVs exist and have a measurable impact on national
electric consumption, then that might be worth worrying about.
However I doubt it. We could probably reduce our national consumption of
electricity by 1/3 or more if we switched to more efficient
appliances/devices and practices, eliminate phantom loads etc, but I
haven't seen any real push to do that yet.
They talk about it a bit on the news, but that's about it.
The amount of power wasted by current EV chargers is far less than most
homes are already wasting anyway.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
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--- Begin Message ---
Actually that photo is AGNS on day 1 at Battery Beach. She is 56 volts
with no front brake, a knobby front tire, and 2 Sevcon Controllers. We
ran the knobby up to 95 MPH. Man do they get loud above 85 MPH ! When
we went for 100 + we switched the front tire, added a disk brake,
switched to Zilla 2K control, and Hawker batteries. Also notice the
exposed bus bar. Certainly not NEDRA approved and nothing I would
consider above 56 volts, but the whole bike was built in 3 days, we had
to fudge a few things. She handles flawlessly. Launches are dead
straight with no wheel spin or front end lift. The whole ride is
rather uneventful unless I get to playing with the motor voltage and
they blow up. At this point we are at a crossroads with regard to the
chassis. Higher voltages mean more weight. Above a pack weight of
180-190 lbs.( 12 Hawkers) she feels like she needs a diet. I really
love the Hawkers but a 100 lb V28 lithium pack is looking more and more
enticing. Denis wants to burn outs with the big boys and is pushing me
for the Li.
Shawn
-----Original Message-----
From: Garret Maki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Thu, 24 May 2007 9:45 am
Subject: RE: AGNuS up close and personal
You did a 106 mph 1/4 mile on That! Wow, gutsy man. Hat's off to ya.
Must by scary with the knobby front tire. I bet she doesn't brake so
well either :) It handles alright for you though?
-Garret
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chip Gribben
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 4:47 PM
To: EV Discussion List
Subject: AGNuS up close and personal
For those who want to take a real good look at the bike that is
causing NEDRA MT records to fall here it is
http://www.nedra.com/photos/100mphclub/agnus_640.jpg And the latest
entry for the NEDRA 100 MPH Club with the picture and
the technical specs
http://www.nedra.com/100mph_club.html#agnus Shawn is going for another
record tonight.
Chip Gribben
NEDRA
http://www.nedra.com
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How much current are you drawing in the field. If it is small enough it
sounds like the perfect application for a Dewalt 36 volt lithium tool
battery. Then you can feel like your EV is related to Killacycle :-)
damon
From: Michael Barkley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Aircraft Generator starting torque issue. - Resolved!!
Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 07:40:32 -0700 (PDT)
"Holy Batman" as Robin would have put it. Jeff, I
reversed the wires on the motor as you said, tapped
off with 36 volts to the field termainal. Now I can
spin the tires in 1st, do 45mph in 2nd, 55mph in 3rd,
and 65mph in 4th, and still have pedal remaining.
Thank you so much for the help. Now I've got to come
up with 36volts worth of batteries to mount under the
hood just for the field power.
Thanks again, all you guys for your help, you all
ROCK!!! www.TexomaEV.com
--- Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Michael,
>
> Try reversing leads on the motor. Take motor
> terminal
> B and connect to controller terminal M-. Motor
> terminal E to B+. And then motor terminal A (field)
> to 36 volt tap of battery pack. This should power
> the
> shunt field with the upper half of the battery pack,
> in the correct direction.
>
> I think the way you did it you was to try to use the
> lower half of battery pack, then when the chopper
> was
> on, it brought up the voltage at motor terminal E to
> higher than mid 36 volt. So the field was
> conducting
> backwards.
>
> Jeff
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
PC Magazines 2007 editors choice for best Web mailaward-winning Windows
Live Hotmail.
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--- Begin Message ---
Roland,
Do you have any pictures of your setup?
Guy
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roland Wiench
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 10:00 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Electric motor for air conditioning or power steering
www.surplussales.com has 1000's of these thread mill motors in stock for
about $20.00 each. They only problem is that you will have to reinforce the
front sheet metal bearing holder. The bearing holder collapses in the
direction of the belt pull. I use two 1/4 inch thick aluminum plates on
both side of this flange.
You can get these type of motors that have been improve and modified with
enclose large brush holders from the Thread Mill Doctor for about $160.00
each which are about 3 HP continuous.
Also, these are about 8000 rpm at 100 volts at 1.75 hp and has a peak hp of
3 hp. I am using about 48 volts from four DC DC Iota converter in series
which slows down these motors to about 4000 rpm and than using a 2:1 pulley,
it bring the rpm down to about 2000 rpm. Also I have gang two of these
motor in parallel off the same belt which gives me 3.5 hp continuous or 6 hp
peak.
I am running a alternator, A/C and vacuum pump which draws a peak ampere of
40 amps or about 20 amps per motor. Normally I am running at 13 amps per
motor.
I also running these accessories with the pilot shaft of the main motor
using a electric clutch made from a clutch of a A/C unit as a back up and to
assist the start up of these units, because the start up load may be at a
greater rating of these motors.
The motor is about 3-1/8 inch in diameter. I made a external fan holder and
brush cover by slipping on a 3 inch I.D. PVC pipe which I increase the I.D.
diameter to 3-1/8 and JB Weld on a plastic flange to hold a 12 volt box fan.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 7:06 AM
Subject: RE: Electric motor for air conditioning or power steering
>
>
>
> There are 90vdc 1.5+hp PM treadmill motors on EBay all the time. Usually
> less than 50 bucks. Why wouldn't one of those work?
>
> I was on my tread for 1.5hrs the other day, when I got off it my wife got
> on for another 30mins. I don't think duty-cycle will be a problem.
>
> --
> Stay Charged!
> Hump
> I-5, Blossvale NY
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Dustin Stern
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 3:09 PM
> > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > Subject: Re: Electric motor for air conditioning or power steering
> >
> >
> > That's cheaper and lighter than the one offer by ElectroAutomotive - or
> > that I've found anywhere else, as I've also been looking.
> >
> > By the way have you seen the electric compressor units at
> > http://www.masterflux.com/ ?
> > Although I can't seem to get an email reply, they have some ideal units.
> >
> > Dustin
> >
> > On May 23, 2007, Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G wrote:
> >
> >> Does anyone think that this motor will work to drive a power steering
> >> pump or an AC pump?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > http://www.e-motorsonline.com/emotors/viewproduct_dcm.php?catid=2&Pid=DC
> >> M00116
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Still (slowly) working on getting my charging setup complete. (Boy
will it be nice to charge at more than the 9 amps my one shaky 120V
breaker can provide.)
Here's my layout. My power meter is mounted on my garage wall.
There's a separate box for a Time Of Use meter. (I think those were
for running your dryer at night at a lower off-peak rate.) The TOU
meter isn't installed, but a cable comes from that box into the garage
to a separate service entrance box. This is the line I'm using to
charge. I'll run some NM-B cable to a rainproof outside box with a
NEMA 14-50 outlet and a 50 amp GFCI breaker.
I also have a big isolation transformer that I'd like to put on this
circuit, preferably between the service entrance panel and the outside
box. It's 5 kVA, can take up to 480 VAC and has center taps, so it
should be up to the task. I know my PFC20 doesn't need a neutral, but
I'd like to wire this up as properly as possible.
I may be an electrical dummy, but I know enough to realize that
grounds and neutrals can confuse even the pros. Throwing isolation
and GFCI into the picture doesn't help.
Here's what (I think) I know. The two hots from the service entrance
panel go to the primary of the transformer, no connection to the
primary center tap. Ground from the outside box goes direct to the
service entrance box and is bonded to the enclosure. The hots of the
receptacle are connected to the ends of the transformer secondary.
Here are my questions:
1. Should the receptacle neutral be connected to the center tap of the
transformer secondary? I know that will give the 120VAC you'd expect,
but this isolated neutral won't be connected to ground at the service
entrance panel.
2. Will the GFCI work properly this way? My thinking is that the
isolated voltage has no reference to ground, so you could
theoretically grab a hot in one hand, a ground in the other and never
feel a tingle - the GFCI would do nothing, nor would it need to.
Unless of course you have an isolation failure. Then you would have a
path to ground and the GFCI would trip as expected, correct?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'd really like to get this
right. Just a thought, do the codes regarding "isolated ground"
circuits (those orange outlets you see in office buildings) have any
relevance here? If not, let's not even bring them up - that's a whole
'nuther subject that confuses the pros. ;^)
Thanks,
Chris
--- End Message ---
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--- John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> With
> Killacycle shooting for the 7s and our quest for the
> 11s, I like the
> ring of it...Oh thank heaven, for 7 - 11! (credit
> Jim Husted for making
> the 7 - 11 connection)
Hey John, credit where credits due, it wasn't I who
chimed this first. Can't remember who it was but I
believe it was EVen their birthday. To bad the race
will fall 2 days late of the date 7/11/7 8^)
For me on top of the awesome things people are doing
this year has been the feeling that as a group we are
growing and that the comrodery is also growing.
Anyway just wanted to set the facts straight, I
already take more credit than is due 8^P
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________Pinpoint
customers who are looking for what you sell.
http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Please unsubscribe
Best regards,
Victor N. Smalley
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Skype: vnsmalley
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 6:29 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Electric motor for air conditioning or power steering
I haven't tried a treadmil motor. I agree that they would work if one
could be found that matched the pack voltage closely enough. Since mine
is a 120V system I found one on ebay that was for 130V with a low
voltage spec of 95V. They had it for $50. Item # is 120123978153. I
think 1 1/2 horsepower should be enough for a power steering pump.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tim Humphrey
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 9:06
To: EV
Subject: RE: Electric motor for air conditioning or power steering
There are 90vdc 1.5+hp PM treadmill motors on EBay all the time. Usually
less than 50 bucks. Why wouldn't one of those work?
I was on my tread for 1.5hrs the other day, when I got off it my wife
got on for another 30mins. I don't think duty-cycle will be a problem.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of Dustin Stern
> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 3:09 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Electric motor for air conditioning or power steering
>
>
> That's cheaper and lighter than the one offer by ElectroAutomotive -
> or that I've found anywhere else, as I've also been looking.
>
> By the way have you seen the electric compressor units at
> http://www.masterflux.com/ ?
> Although I can't seem to get an email reply, they have some ideal
units.
>
> Dustin
>
> On May 23, 2007, Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G wrote:
>
>> Does anyone think that this motor will work to drive a power steering
>> pump or an AC pump?
>>
>>
>>
> http://www.e-motorsonline.com/emotors/viewproduct_dcm.php?catid=2&Pid=
> DC
>> M00116
--- End Message ---
