EV Digest 6825
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Another new member consulting list - now, DC-DC 's
by "John O'Connor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Alternator test question
by Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Anyone know where I can get some persision zenirs or switching transistors?
by "Michael T Kadie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Alternator test question
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Mustang Conversions (Was: How to search archives)
by Chris Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) electric motorcycle project
by "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: drag bike project on ebay
by "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Ah counter - was Re: Starting business...
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: electric motorcycle project
by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Alternator test question
by Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Electric Trimmer Mower
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) A fun EV encounter story
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: A fun EV encounter story
by "Dmitri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Ah counter - was Re: Starting business...
by Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: A fun EV encounter story
by Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Starting business...
by Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: electric motorcycle project
by "Mark Eidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Ah counter - was Re: Starting business...
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: electric motorcycle project
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Air Power ?
by "Dr. Andy Mars" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: electric motorcycle project
by lyle sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: EV bumper sticker
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) OT, Re: Air Power ?
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE:_Ah_counter_-_was_Re:_Starting_business...?=
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
The kit I purchased from ElectroAuto came with a CC Power 400 watt
144 volt input DCDC.
The box it came in had "other" checked for input voltage so it looks
like they special made it. Don't knows if EA has a deal with them or
if anyone can get a custom input unit.
On May 30, 2007, at 12:01 AM, Adrian DeLeon wrote:
On Tue, 29 May 2007 16:00:46 -0700, "Phil Marino"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Electro Automotive lists a Sevcon with that range ( 96 - 144,
acording to
their description). I was lucky enough to find one on Ebay a
couple of
years ago. it says "128/12V" on the side.
Their price list doesn't include the Sevcon - it shows a CC Power
unit at $580. I'd need TWO of them to cover my 400W minimum (600W
preferred) power requirement. Both the Sevcon and CC Power websites
only show products that operate up to 80V nominal input.
Vicor has a 450W MegaMod (paralleled VI-J00 and VI-200 units) for
$437.
I just ended a thread about DC/DC converters that use 96-120V
inputs. If I find anything new I'll be sure to post. Until then
I'll keep my eye out for some 128/12V units.
-Adrian
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi everyone:
I'm setting up a small test station to spin an external regulator alternator at
different speeds with varying field to measure output. Will I hurt the
alternator measuring open-circuit voltage or does there need to be a load
connected?
many thanks
____________________________________________________________________________________Building
a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to
get online.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anyone know where I can get some precision zener diodes or switching
transistors?
It's driving me nuts I need 1000 zenirs or switching transistors that switch
at ideally 3.75 +/- .05 for my car (electric cobra http://ssi-racing.com)
battery management circuit. They don't have to handle any real current (I
can dissipate my 1/4 watt off another transistor).
I've got one quote for bin searching at $5 each!!!!
Thanks,
KD
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If the alternator is install in a vehicle, than the neg fields and the
battery neg is self ground through the alternator chassis to ground.
To let the alternator voltage go higher than the battery volt which may be
as high as 110 VDC. You have to disconnect the neg field and battery
negative to the regulator. Also a positive must be disconnected from the
regulator. In a two wire alternator, this regulator wire or call the R
wire, comes from the ignition circuit.
A four pole double throw switch is used to switch the alternator from a 13.5
to 15.5 volt output to a 110 VDC output. This switch is normally in the 12
volt position while the alternator is running up to speed, and than this
switch disconnects the positive of the battery, the R wire from a external
12 volt source and the regulator neg field from the chassic ground, then
voltage shall rise proportional to the rpm of the alternator.
I use a alternator on a test bed, which is mounted on plywood, so there is
no feed back to the negative of the battery. The only switch I need is a 2
pole double throw and one single pole switch.
The 2 pole switch transfer the positive and negative output of the
alternator from the 12 volt battery to a load like a 120 vac light bulb or
even a 120 volt 1000 watt water heater element. The single pole switch cuts
off the 12 volt positive to the regulator (the R wire) and you now see the
voltage rise.
You can use a three position switch, so you can have a off position, so the
alternator does not go to any load and this will work also. You also must
have the alternator regulator on first while you run up the alternator to
speed, and than turn off the positive to the regulator. Some alternators
need this external 12 volt excitation to get it started.
Many years ago I found a web site that show how to reconnected a alternator
to convert it to any variable voltage output you want.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 5:18 PM
Subject: Alternator test question
> Hi everyone:
>
> I'm setting up a small test station to spin an external regulator
> alternator at different speeds with varying field to measure output. Will
> I hurt the alternator measuring open-circuit voltage or does there need to
> be a load connected?
>
> many thanks
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________Building
>
> a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the
> tools to get online.
> http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Charles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have a 68 Mustang that I wanted to convert to
electric...but would want the car to still be able
to accelerate quickly and handle decently.
My '66 Mustang convertible conversion acccelerates
well from 0-30 MPH and OK from 30-60 MPH. Being close
to stock weight, it turns and stops about the same.
>Weight is going to be a problem very quickly as the
car starts off fairly heavy (around 3000 lbs).
I am consuming up to 400 Wh/mile, which is way worse
than what I expected. Fortunately I have a 15 kWh
pack but only need to go 30 miles, since my range is
so far is only 35 miles. And that was after
increasing the rear axle to 4.11. And I was getting
21 MPG before hand which is relatively good for that
model year.
>The unibody construction and limited places for
batteries also will create problems.
I found it to be better spacewise than other compact
cars because it is one of the lightest and smallest
mass produced cars designed to handle a V8, so there
is a fair amount of room and payload up front.
>Is this just a bad plan altogether?
I wouldn't suggest a lead acid Mustang conversion --
your range would either be closer to only 10 miles, or
it would be overloaded to the point where I don't
think it would handle very well and could be unsafe,
and would probably require significant modification.
But I love my Valence lithium ion conversion and am
never going back!
Chris Jones
Santa Rosa, CA
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/733
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Im planning on starting a motorcycle conversion this fall if everything goes
well, nobody around me thinks it will work so it has been a little
discouraging. I plan on using an open style motorcycle frame kinda sporty
type with a 72 volt 450 amp controller a perm 132 motor and 6 batteries
around 35 amp/h in size. Im expecting about 30 KM max range. Im still unsure
if i should use a big charger and regs or 6 smaller individual chargers. I
do not have a welder so im obviously going to need to get one and also a
little unsure about how much that will set me back. I do not have very much
welding expirience at all and was just wondering how difficult a project
like this might be? If everything goes well i hope it will be able to do
about 110 km/h. Any encouraging words?
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live Hotmail. Now with better security, storage and features.
www.newhotmail.ca?icid=WLHMENCA149
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Gotta be "Poorman"
http://www.poormansev.com/id48.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 1:59 PM
Subject: drag bike project on ebay
Just saw an electric drag bike "project" in Texas in case anyone wants
electricity between their legs:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Project-Electric-Drag-Motorcycle-Electric-Veh
icle-EV_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ46093QQihZ011QQitemZ320118255445QQrdZ1
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Damon, no, reading voltage on the shunt is not by itself too difficult.
It is difficult to fight the noise, to condition the signal, make sure
there are no signal errors induced along wiring; you need to know
something of shielding, de-coupling, impedance matching and other
things to tame unwanted spikes without degradation of signal shape too
much. Not only know from the text books and app notes, but know from
frustration personally crawling under the vehicle 5 times re-doing
something, working toward getting it right. Using real (sophisticated
and so expensive) tools.
It is not technically difficult, but, say, challenging to present info
in a usable form it's easy to comprehend. (I realize, everyone's
opinion about "easy" is different). It is not too difficult to write
a code which integrates shunt current over time to get Ah readout.
It is art of making it all work flawlessly in a real vehicle (e.g. not
to be a toy), unlike having it running on the bench off the lab power
supplies that is difficult. Making it visually pleasant, rigid (esp in a
motorcycle you may be thinking of, where it also have to be splash
proof). The output sure has to be bright enough. I have quite bright LED
display in EVision but it is still totally washed out under direct sun.
Best thing is to install unit in a cavity where it's always a "shadow",
ideally integrate in the instrument cluster. Tube visor over it helps
greatly too. LCD is good at bright sun but fragile and temp dependent,
LEDs are good in dark but may be limited (not graphic), VFDs are
perhaps indeed the best compromise as Lee noted; one the downside is
just only one color is available (for given display). Same about those
orange glowing plasma discharge tube displays.
You probably know what my gadget, as it stands now (being beta tested)
looks like: http://www.metricmind.com/images/evision.jpg
Next time around I'll give a VFDs serious thought. One off unit
is not a problem. The problem is steady supply of these
things and making sure manufacturer is not obsoleting them before
you come up with design you plan to produce and sell. This is
one of the differences between hobby and business as OEM.
I've just gone through design process of e-meter replacement and it's
not as easy as it may seem, but I guess, all depends on what you expect.
I can tell you, by the time you're done with robust design, BRUSA
counter will appear cheap to you. Re-using (just buying) someone
else's well working hardware often makes more sense than coming up
with your own. All too often by looking at the task and existing
solution engineers think they can do it better (read, "I'm smarter than
them")
without analyzing what went into design and why solutions what they are,
which is a bit more than "why this C18 capacitor is there? Let's get
rid of it. We can get by without this D6 as well, body diode will
do...". Outcome - design failed and creator quietly realizes
there is much more to learn yet... This is not to discourage you trying,
it's the only way to make something better, it's just appreciating
what's already out there and worked out, and not to be ignorant of it.
Try not to look only at amount of dollars something cost. Appreciate
what went into creation of it. Good check is: if I were to create this
gadget, what would I charge for it? And get ready to pay the same if
someone else created equal gadget.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
damon henry wrote:
Getting an appropriate volt meter and ammeter are simple as they come
off the shelf in all different shapes and sizes, but since I am
using NiCads I really need an amp hour counter, and the only option
besides an emeter that I am aware of are the expensive Brusa ones
that Victor sales. How hard can it be to read the voltage off my
shunt and and keep track of what is happening?
thanks damon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tim
I have a nice flux-core wirefeed welder -- plugs into 15A or 20A
115vac. I think it's 90 or 110A output. Very easy to use (compared
to stick welding -- I've never tried oxyacetalene or MIG or TIG). I
was doing good welds after only a few hours practice. Welds it makes
are not really nice -- splatter due to the flux core wire -- but seem
to be strong and functional. If I practice, I can do much nicer
looking welds with the stick welder, but it's alot harder, and on thin
stuff, the stick welder is really easy to burn through. I have welded
sheet metal car bodies up to about 1/8" stock with the wirefeed. A
good one of these is about $400 -- Harbor freight has some cheaper
ones for around $200 I think.
On the project, I think it's a great idea. I've heard of several
electric motorcycles. Not sure on the battery charger issue though....
I'm wrestling with the same issue for my truck, since I'm planning on
using AGM's -- 144 volt pack.
On 5/30/07, Tim Gamber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Im planning on starting a motorcycle conversion this fall if everything goes
well, nobody around me thinks it will work so it has been a little
discouraging. I plan on using an open style motorcycle frame kinda sporty
type with a 72 volt 450 amp controller a perm 132 motor and 6 batteries
around 35 amp/h in size. Im expecting about 30 KM max range. Im still unsure
if i should use a big charger and regs or 6 smaller individual chargers. I
do not have a welder so im obviously going to need to get one and also a
little unsure about how much that will set me back. I do not have very much
welding expirience at all and was just wondering how difficult a project
like this might be? If everything goes well i hope it will be able to do
about 110 km/h. Any encouraging words?
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live Hotmail. Now with better security, storage and features.
www.newhotmail.ca?icid=WLHMENCA149
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On May 30, 2007, at 4:18 PM, Frank John wrote:
I'm setting up a small test station to spin an external regulator
alternator at different speeds with varying field to measure
output. Will I hurt the alternator measuring open-circuit voltage
or does there need to be a load connected?
Its quite possible. Its not a load but the voltage ratings of the
alternators internal diodes you need to watch out for. I don't know
what voltage diodes they put in alternators.
Paul
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is hardly a vehicle, but I just converted a gas string/wipper
push trimmer mower to electric!
I got a one with a bad engine and mounted a 24v scooter motor to it.
I then added two 12v sealed Hawker motorcycle batteries.
It seems to work as well as a regular gas mower (I will have someone
who has a gas one try it out for comparison). I haven't tested it out
for range yet either but it should last a while.
The only thing is it is not quiet... its got a vibration coming from
the mowing string attachment in the front which i am going to see if
I can fix (it sound kinda like a gas mower at the moment).
I guess I will add it to the EVAlbum when I get it completely
finished so people can see pictures and the specs.
Tehben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey all
I've been wanting to share a little story with you
that happened last week. Anyway it went something
like this...
I'd been working up Chips PODC raffle motor in between
the lift stuff. Now just for starters being Wayland
found a really cherry 6.7" GE motor to start with and
a customer of mine had just scrapped out to me a brand
new GE Barret armature with a big ol shaft to modify
that I had recently sold them (they scrapped those
trucks LMAO) was a pretty cool chance happening.
Anyway on with the main story...
I had modified the shaft but I don't have a mill so I
sub the slotting out to a local place that treats me
pretty good. I knew I had to run up there that day to
pick it up, but really needed to push it off and get
some stuff baking before I left. I also had this
"new" English Prestolite made motor with this funky,
double tapered bearing setup. Real sadistic SOB who
designed it I'll tell ya, LMAO! I had told the dealer
to just supply me the kit. Well they called early
that day and told me they had 7 different "pinion
kits" and they wanted me to just get them. Anyway I
now needed to run up and order the bearings and pick
up Chips arm while I was there.
I arrive and find no lines, awesome!(these guys work
by the hour, LMAO! Damn, I get the slowest guy,
seriously! While I'm being helped a couple people
come in and get behind me. Call me wierd but I get
little 6 sense feelings at times and well I was
getting them now! Guy was kinda in my space, one of
those line crunchers who feel the harder they pack in
the faster the clerk goes, hehe.
I even turned around twice to get a glimps at him with
probably a "you got an issue?" look on my face.
Anyway another clerk started helping him and he walked
to another area. Meanwhile old hour boys fingering
the taper bearings like there wasn't a care in the
world, while I'm thinking I'm in line waiting Hell!
Pokey finally gets the numbers he needs and vanishes
to the back room...
To my delight they actually had all the parts. Half
way there, all I need is for him to fetch the armature
they had keyed. For those still reading here's where
it gets good.
Just as the guy brings out the armature and sets it on
the counter that wierd vibe guy was heading out the
door. He stops, turns around and asks "what's that
out of?" pointing to the armature. I told him it was
from a Pallet jack, and he says ohh 24 / 36 volt!
Well I just had to share that it was in fact a modded
motor for a NEDRA EVent somewhat puffy chested I'm
sure 8^) He says, I'm building an electric car!
He says he's got an ADC F4 9" fairly puffy chested
himself 8^o I say, the FB1-4001? with increased puff!
I raised his "man puffing" stating some things I've
done 8^) He jumps in with well he's gonna run 120
volts at 7000 RPM's!
(SQUEEEEEEEEECHh)
I say no your not! LMAO! He says Advance says they go
to 7K. I said not no more and EVen if they do I'll
show you copper flowers from those before you if he
wanted to cruise to the shop 8^o It was about this
point he conceeded and said with discust that he'd
need to change the ratio. We exhanged numbers and I
hope he takes me up on a visit to the shop and heeds
my warnings.
In general though what are the chances that the one
guy in Redmond who could inform him of this motor
catasophy would be there just then. To top it off he
was getting the drive line back from them and was
going to install it that day! Anyway from my point of
view and the whole vibe thing, it was a really trippy
encounter. Anyway I thought it worthy of sharing and
also to say that if the motor doesn't make it to PODC
in time it's that guys fault as he cost me an hour of
time, LMAO!
Chest puffing dramatized for entertainment value 8^)
Hope you enjoyed.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________Get
the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware
protection.
http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/norton/index.php
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVDL" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 11:04 PM
Subject: A fun EV encounter story
Hey all
I've been wanting to share a little story with you
that happened last week. Anyway it went something
like this...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
damon henry wrote:
Getting an appropriate volt meter and ammeter are simple as they come
off the shelf in all different shapes and sizes, but since I am
using NiCads I really need an amp hour counter, and the only option
besides an emeter that I am aware of are the expensive Brusa ones
that Victor sales. How hard can it be to read the voltage off my
shunt and and keep track of what is happening?
I'd really like one of those too! Just a simple ah counter that
doesn't care about pack voltage or capacity. It only needs to do 3
things:
1. Count the ah removed or added using a shunt that puts out 50mv at
500 amps.
2. Display the result on a commonly available 200mv full scale meter
such as;
<http://www.lascarelectronics.com/products.cfm?STOCKNO=SP%208%
2D100&CFID=4241510&CFTOKEN=951e6afa5b132934-E0199435-C297-FD96-
B446C2CE5548EC3D>
3. Provide a shorting pin or jumper that resets the output to 0 ah.
These functions seem pretty strait forward, but I have been unable to
find such a device. Oh, I can find that functionality, but only with
a bunch of other functions I really don't care about (or want to pay
for, or have to ignore most of the display to get one thing I want.)
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On May 30, 2007, at 8:04 PM, Jim Husted wrote:
I've been wanting to share a little story with you
that happened last week. Anyway it went something
like this...
I really enjoy your stories Jim. I'm sure you will eventually hack an
EV together for yourself <LMAO>.
Paul "PITA" G. ;-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On May 29, 2007, at 5:53 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The rush is because I already have people interested in the
equalizers.
You have my attention! I want regs that are ready for normal
exposure. I have talked with Rich about his regs several times. The
biggest problem is that the exposure of my buggy will most likely
make smoke out of them (or several batteries.) I keep the thing in a
garage, but sometimes it finds the rain anyway (for reasons ranging
from a show commitment to the generally unpredictable western WA
weather.) His regs keep having a bit of feature (price) creep too.
What do you plan to offer?
Paul "neon" G.
P.S. - when I designed the EV Buggy the plan was to use BatPro regs.
Before it was done they where no longer available.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
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* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
* This post contains a forbidden message format *
* (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
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--- Begin Message ---
I know that it is a harsh environment, but what I am after is just an amp
hour counter. I have hooked my $60 multimeter up to my shunt before and
watched it while I was riding and it seemed to do a good job of reading the
voltage across the shunt. It has a serial port, so it would be fairly
straight forward to poll the data from the serial port and count the ahrs,
but that is a rather bulky solution. It just seems like there are so many
off the shelf solutions to read current that it shouldn't be that hard to
add a device that accumulates the data over time and does a reasonable job
of keeping track of it for you.
With most shunts usually outputting less then a hundred millivolts I can see
where getting a good read on the signal might be a problem, but why does an
analog meter not have a problem. I can use the same shunt which is so
difficult to build a digital counter for and hook any old ammeter up to it
and get fairly reasonable results. It baffles me, but then again I have
never tried it.
damon
From: Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Ah counter - was Re: Starting business...
Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 19:01:02 -0700
Damon, no, reading voltage on the shunt is not by itself too difficult.
It is difficult to fight the noise, to condition the signal, make sure
there are no signal errors induced along wiring; you need to know
something of shielding, de-coupling, impedance matching and other
things to tame unwanted spikes without degradation of signal shape too
much. Not only know from the text books and app notes, but know from
frustration personally crawling under the vehicle 5 times re-doing
something, working toward getting it right. Using real (sophisticated and
so expensive) tools.
It is not technically difficult, but, say, challenging to present info
in a usable form it's easy to comprehend. (I realize, everyone's
opinion about "easy" is different). It is not too difficult to write
a code which integrates shunt current over time to get Ah readout.
It is art of making it all work flawlessly in a real vehicle (e.g. not
to be a toy), unlike having it running on the bench off the lab power
supplies that is difficult. Making it visually pleasant, rigid (esp in a
motorcycle you may be thinking of, where it also have to be splash
proof). The output sure has to be bright enough. I have quite bright LED
display in EVision but it is still totally washed out under direct sun.
Best thing is to install unit in a cavity where it's always a "shadow",
ideally integrate in the instrument cluster. Tube visor over it helps
greatly too. LCD is good at bright sun but fragile and temp dependent,
LEDs are good in dark but may be limited (not graphic), VFDs are
perhaps indeed the best compromise as Lee noted; one the downside is
just only one color is available (for given display). Same about those
orange glowing plasma discharge tube displays.
You probably know what my gadget, as it stands now (being beta tested)
looks like: http://www.metricmind.com/images/evision.jpg
Next time around I'll give a VFDs serious thought. One off unit
is not a problem. The problem is steady supply of these
things and making sure manufacturer is not obsoleting them before
you come up with design you plan to produce and sell. This is
one of the differences between hobby and business as OEM.
I've just gone through design process of e-meter replacement and it's
not as easy as it may seem, but I guess, all depends on what you expect.
I can tell you, by the time you're done with robust design, BRUSA
counter will appear cheap to you. Re-using (just buying) someone
else's well working hardware often makes more sense than coming up
with your own. All too often by looking at the task and existing
solution engineers think they can do it better (read, "I'm smarter than
them")
without analyzing what went into design and why solutions what they are,
which is a bit more than "why this C18 capacitor is there? Let's get
rid of it. We can get by without this D6 as well, body diode will
do...". Outcome - design failed and creator quietly realizes
there is much more to learn yet... This is not to discourage you trying,
it's the only way to make something better, it's just appreciating
what's already out there and worked out, and not to be ignorant of it.
Try not to look only at amount of dollars something cost. Appreciate
what went into creation of it. Good check is: if I were to create this
gadget, what would I charge for it? And get ready to pay the same if
someone else created equal gadget.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
damon henry wrote:
Getting an appropriate volt meter and ammeter are simple as they come
off the shelf in all different shapes and sizes, but since I am
using NiCads I really need an amp hour counter, and the only option
besides an emeter that I am aware of are the expensive Brusa ones
that Victor sales. How hard can it be to read the voltage off my
shunt and and keep track of what is happening?
thanks damon
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I built my bike without a welder. I just bolted things to the frame. I do
have two pieces that I had made for me that required welding. I had a local
machine shop fabricate a motor mount and also weld my front sprocket onto a
fitting that goes over the motor shaft. The motor mount is bolted to the
frame and holds the motor in place.
I don't believe you will be happy with the range with the size of battery
you are considering. Most 72 volt motorcycles using 50 ahr lead acid
batterys top out at about 20 miles range which I believe is right around the
30 KM you are hoping for. If you are going with lead acid I think you need
to plan on at least 300 lbs worth of batteries.
I'm to lazy to look up the specs on the motor you are talking about, but I
would look closely at how it will hold up with your 72 volt 450 amp
controller. PM motors are easy to damage if you run them to hard. You
might want to consider a nice 6 or 7 inch series wound motor instead.
You also might want to look into getting on the electric motorcycle list at
electricmotorcycles.net. It's mostly a subset of people from this list, but
strictly dealing with motorcycles.
damon
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/497
damon
From: "Tim Gamber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: electric motorcycle project
Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 19:17:35 -0600
Im planning on starting a motorcycle conversion this fall if everything
goes well, nobody around me thinks it will work so it has been a little
discouraging. I plan on using an open style motorcycle frame kinda sporty
type with a 72 volt 450 amp controller a perm 132 motor and 6 batteries
around 35 amp/h in size. Im expecting about 30 KM max range. Im still
unsure if i should use a big charger and regs or 6 smaller individual
chargers. I do not have a welder so im obviously going to need to get one
and also a little unsure about how much that will set me back. I do not
have very much welding expirience at all and was just wondering how
difficult a project like this might be? If everything goes well i hope it
will be able to do about 110 km/h. Any encouraging words?
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Tim,
Before you begin though do a price check with a local
machinist to see which would be cheaper for you (and
easier in the long run) i.e. whether buying a welder
that you can use again (woohoo, another tool) or a
paid professional weld that you know will hold but not
look or weigh like you envisioned.
>From my experience in welding, I started with one I
bought from Harbor Freight. It's a flux core wire
feed 110V welder that came with a face shield with
tinted welding glass. It was easy to use. In fact, I
was able to weld sheetmetal pans onto one of my VW
beetles and make a welding cart out of a shopping
cart. I thought it was simple after I got over my
initial fear. I just placed the tip where I wanted
and squeezed the trigger. Essentially, I did a couple
of tack welds to check fit and hold in place. Weld in
place and then checked the weld. And yeah, there was
lots of spatter until I got the hang of it.
Keep in mind some of the tools needed in addition to
the welder that may add to your costs:
BFH (Hammer) to check welds
Vice grips
Angle Grinder with available cutting wheel attachment
Depending on the type of stock, a pipe bender or angle
iron bender (this will cut down on adding unnecessary
weight from unnecesary welds)
I know you have been planning this for awhile now so I
offer good luck and have fun riding. OH, measure
twice (if not more) and cut once.
Lyle
--- Tim Gamber wrote:
> Im planning on starting a motorcycle conversion this
> fall if everything goes
> well, nobody around me thinks it will work so it has
> been a little
> discouraging. I plan on using an open style
> motorcycle frame kinda sporty
> type with a 72 volt 450 amp controller a perm 132
> motor and 6 batteries
> around 35 amp/h in size. Im expecting about 30 KM
> max range. Im still unsure
> if i should use a big charger and regs or 6 smaller
> individual chargers. I
> do not have a welder so im obviously going to need
> to get one and also a
> little unsure about how much that will set me back.
> I do not have very much
> welding expirience at all and was just wondering how
> difficult a project
> like this might be? If everything goes well i hope
> it will be able to do
> about 110 km/h. Any encouraging words?
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Need Mail bonding?
Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091
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--- Begin Message ---
On 5/30/07, Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Guess you'd do that with batteries. But with electricity as a fuel,
there's no "Cleans your brushes with Clean-Tron additives", "If your EV
has been getting sluggish, pep it up with new TXU SuperTron
electricity!", "Special wavelengths formulated for high mileage EVs!"
Well, you could still brand it :)
HydroSource in the north-west, your zero-carbon choice!
Mojave Sunbeam daytime tariff..
Patriot brand All-American Atomic Pickup Power?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Andy and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Dr. Andy Mars" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Air Power ?
Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 23:54:40 -0700
>Can this be for real?
>
>http://green.yahoo.com/index.php?q=node/315
>
>Until next INTERNEcTion -
No. Because of physics, air power will never be a
transport power source as way to ineff, about 2%, about
1/10th the eff of a good EV.
And it's off topic here and no more post about it
should be posted.
>
>Take care (and spread it around) -
Please don't as it's bad info.
Jerry Dycus
>
>Peace,
> Andy
>
>
>
>Andy Mars, Ph.D.
>
>
>"Helping make a difference in the lives of kids - helping
>kids make a difference in life."
>
>Educational Consulting, Counseling, & Tutoring
>www.Perpend.org
>
>New Private School Opening in About Two Years
>www.MarsAcademy.org
>
>Enriching Individualized Summer School
>www.MarsSPACE.org
>
>Summer & Winter Camps
>www.CampExploration.org
>
>Weekend Community Service Projects
>www.KidsMakeADifference.org
--- End Message ---
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Damon
You are looking for a inexpensive E-meter for your motorbike ?
i think you will love this one :^)
http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/drainbrain.htm
Philippe
Far far away
---------- Initial Header -----------
>From : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To : ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Cc :
Date : Thu, 31 May 2007 04:54:22 +0000
Subject : RE: Ah counter - was Re: Starting business...
I know that it is a harsh environment, but what I am after is just an amp
hour counter. I have hooked my $60 multimeter up to my shunt before and
watched it while I was riding and it seemed to do a good job of reading the
voltage across the shunt. It has a serial port, so it would be fairly
straight forward to poll the data from the serial port and count the ahrs,
but that is a rather bulky solution. It just seems like there are so many
off the shelf solutions to read current that it shouldn't be that hard to
add a device that accumulates the data over time and does a reasonable job
of keeping track of it for you.
With most shunts usually outputting less then a hundred millivolts I can see
where getting a good read on the signal might be a problem, but why does an
analog meter not have a problem. I can use the same shunt which is so
difficult to build a digital counter for and hook any old ammeter up to it
and get fairly reasonable results. It baffles me, but then again I have
never tried it.
damon
>From: Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>Subject: Ah counter - was Re: Starting business...
>Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 19:01:02 -0700
>
>Damon, no, reading voltage on the shunt is not by itself too difficult.
>
>It is difficult to fight the noise, to condition the signal, make sure
>there are no signal errors induced along wiring; you need to know
>something of shielding, de-coupling, impedance matching and other
>things to tame unwanted spikes without degradation of signal shape too
>much. Not only know from the text books and app notes, but know from
>frustration personally crawling under the vehicle 5 times re-doing
>something, working toward getting it right. Using real (sophisticated and
>so expensive) tools.
>
>It is not technically difficult, but, say, challenging to present info
>in a usable form it's easy to comprehend. (I realize, everyone's
>opinion about "easy" is different). It is not too difficult to write
>a code which integrates shunt current over time to get Ah readout.
>
>It is art of making it all work flawlessly in a real vehicle (e.g. not
>to be a toy), unlike having it running on the bench off the lab power
>supplies that is difficult. Making it visually pleasant, rigid (esp in a
>motorcycle you may be thinking of, where it also have to be splash
>proof). The output sure has to be bright enough. I have quite bright LED
>display in EVision but it is still totally washed out under direct sun.
>Best thing is to install unit in a cavity where it's always a "shadow",
>ideally integrate in the instrument cluster. Tube visor over it helps
>greatly too. LCD is good at bright sun but fragile and temp dependent,
>LEDs are good in dark but may be limited (not graphic), VFDs are
>perhaps indeed the best compromise as Lee noted; one the downside is
>just only one color is available (for given display). Same about those
>orange glowing plasma discharge tube displays.
>
>You probably know what my gadget, as it stands now (being beta tested)
>looks like: http://www.metricmind.com/images/evision.jpg
>
>Next time around I'll give a VFDs serious thought. One off unit
>is not a problem. The problem is steady supply of these
>things and making sure manufacturer is not obsoleting them before
>you come up with design you plan to produce and sell. This is
>one of the differences between hobby and business as OEM.
>
>I've just gone through design process of e-meter replacement and it's
>not as easy as it may seem, but I guess, all depends on what you expect.
>I can tell you, by the time you're done with robust design, BRUSA
>counter will appear cheap to you. Re-using (just buying) someone
>else's well working hardware often makes more sense than coming up
>with your own. All too often by looking at the task and existing
>solution engineers think they can do it better (read, "I'm smarter than
>them")
>without analyzing what went into design and why solutions what they are,
>which is a bit more than "why this C18 capacitor is there? Let's get
>rid of it. We can get by without this D6 as well, body diode will
>do...". Outcome - design failed and creator quietly realizes
>there is much more to learn yet... This is not to discourage you trying,
>it's the only way to make something better, it's just appreciating
>what's already out there and worked out, and not to be ignorant of it.
>Try not to look only at amount of dollars something cost. Appreciate
>what went into creation of it. Good check is: if I were to create this
>gadget, what would I charge for it? And get ready to pay the same if
>someone else created equal gadget.
>
>--
>Victor
>'91 ACRX - something different
>
>damon henry wrote:
>
>>Getting an appropriate volt meter and ammeter are simple as they come
>> off the shelf in all different shapes and sizes, but since I am
>>using NiCads I really need an amp hour counter, and the only option
>>besides an emeter that I am aware of are the expensive Brusa ones
>>that Victor sales. How hard can it be to read the voltage off my
>>shunt and and keep track of what is happening?
>>
>>thanks damon
>
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