EV Digest 6827
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Almost !#it myself when I got this email!!!
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: electric motorcycle project
by "Mark Eidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: A fun EV encounter story
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: electric motorcycle project
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: electric motorcycle project
by Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: electric motorcycle project
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Anyone know where I can get some persision zenirs or switching
transistors?
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) TdS Report #1: Tour de Sol replacement June 9 and 10 in New Jersey
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) RE: electric motorcycle project
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: electric motorcycle project
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Starting business...
by Steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Ah counter
by "Adrian DeLeon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: electric motorcycle project
by dale henderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: electric motorcycle project
by john fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Welding aluminum, was electric motorcycle project
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Ah counter - PakTrakr
by Michael Barkley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) ReadyWelder, was Welding aluminum
by Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: electric motorcycle project
by "Timothy W. Foreman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Valence batteries (Was: Mustang Conversions)
by Chris Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 6:46 PM
Subject: Almost !#it myself when I got this email!!!
WOW, I feel SOOO lucky, lets hope this is REAL! I got this email in
response to a Craig'slist add looking for VW Rabbit!!!!
Wow! Like the song sez;" Some guys have All the Luck!"I have given up on
Rabbits in Corrupticut, ,just down the road from you. Oh I can have all I
want, but they are mulch! VW never got their Rust Bucket, built in
Rust-O-Matic streight from the factory, nonsence under control. Yeah the
82's and on up were a lot better than the famous 79's where you had to
LIFT drivers door, to close, because the damn door post rotted away. And
the fuse panel right in the rain stream, so you had quirky electrical
problems. Ah! The bitter memories flood back, yeah! Perpetually WET floor
padding as ALL VW's LEAK!Mystery seepage, under floor mats. But Other than
That, Rabbits make great conversions. I would STILL be driving mine had I
not wrecked it towing it home from Joliet, last spring. So go for the
Rabbit, but DO look underneith, make sure it isnt a Bondo-Rosa
Special!They all rot on the floors, behind the wheelwells. So crawl under
if you can put your fingers through, forgetaboutit!Golfs are a tad newer
as ar Jettas. I have a 89 Jetta I did, got from Bill Glickman(Hi Bill!) HE
had picked out a clean one, so no rust issue. I',m having OTHER issues
with my wiring, but I think when cars STAND around a few years these
things happen?
Alota Jettas out there, are relatively light 2000lbs or so? My GVW is
3400lbs sez so on the door column! I'm just THERE with a 90 volt setup. HAD
120 volts and 13 batteries in the trunk, but the ass was draggin' so took
out 5, Magic number! Car rides decently, is a pleasure to drive, not QUITE
the Led Sled it was at 120 volts. At 90 volts I loose a bit of get up and
go, and range, although I did manage a 30 plus mile RT run to a car show
down in Old Lyme, from Killingworth.The power steering runs off the motor as
does the brake vacuum, a "Wrap around" belt setup works fine. In parking,
manuevrering you slip the clutch to get the PB'sand PS. A quirk ya get used
to.At 90 volts car has decent on the road performance and I can STILL run
the freeway with dignity [EMAIL PROTECTED], takes a little longer to get there!
So, to get to the point, at last: Jetti make decent conversions. You can
keep ALL the badd-eries OUT of the cabin ,Woo Woo!!STILL have usable trunk
space, hell! Bigger than the Bunny, car, anyhow.Can use ALL your seats, for
normal size people;kids and whatnot, not 4 ,300 lb galoots like me!<g>
NopwIF I can get my shit together by tomorrow, to U hall it down to PoDC.
Like reinstall exhaust system in my van, get the damn trailer. Those U haul
Car Transporters are hard to get!
Seeya
Bob
I have a 1982 VW Rabbit that was converted from gas to electric in a high
school. The students painted it with a nice red and silver scheme they
designed themselves and put in heavy duty springs to allow for the weight
of the batteries. It was an engineering class, so they had to do the math
and calculate how strong the new springs needed to be. The engine, clutch,
radiator, fuel system, exhaust were removed. It looks very clean except
there are 2 hubcaps missing from the mags and the interior headliner is
badly worn.
We took out the 120v electric motor, other electric car parts, and
batteries. We'll use them to build another electric vehicle, possibly a
boat. I was going to scrap the car, but it just looks so nice I
hesitated.
Transaxle is still in it. If you want it you can have it for $150. I
don't
have title right now but can get it because it was my brother's car.
--
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--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: A fun EV encounter story
I really enjoy your stories Jim. I'm sure you will eventually hack an
EV together for yourself <LMAO>.
Paul "PITA" G. ;-)
Yep he should. I sent him a 48v controller & a 48v to 12v dc/dc
converter.
At least two wheels..........Lawrence Rhodes....
Second that! Jim NEEDS a EV he can call his own. But we need to give him
the time to create something? A Mule for testing Hy Torque's new racing
motors! And maybe we can come up with a name for it?
Great story, Jim, on the motor shop one.Keep them coming when ya get a
chance!
Seeya
Bob
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--- Begin Message ---
At 07:47 AM 5/31/2007, Mark Eidson wrote:
4x what you want to pay.......A TIG unit requires only Argon for both steel
and aluminum and it is easy to switch back and forth. MIG units can do
aluminum, but I have never done it or seen it done.
I've done quite a bit of Aluminum welding with a cheap Harbor Freight
MIG. Didn't even have a spool gun. (Get a better machine WITH a
spoolgun!) Use Argon gas.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 2007-05-31 at 07:47 -0700, Mark Eidson wrote:
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> * ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
> * This post contains a forbidden message format *
> * (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
> etc etc.. (Mark, please post in text mode ... my email program can
read your messages because I can tell it to ignore the HTML part, but it
still wants to quote the HTML part when replying. Yes it's a bug in my
software, but until we get on list server software that does the right
thing and completely strips the HTML portion instead of replacing it
with this silly stub (or, *gasp* allows HTML mail), please post in text
only.
Moving forward -- you said:
> If you want to do all the types of welding you list a TIG welder is
the best
bet. You can learn how to weld TIG by your self, but a class will save
you
a lot of grief. You will need a 150A unit minimum, and this wlll cost
you
4x what you want to pay.......A TIG unit requires only Argon for both
steel
and aluminum and it is easy to switch back and forth. MIG units can do
aluminum, but I have never done it or seen it done.
If I recall correctly, there was a scene in Roderick's show "Sucking
Amps" showing an experienced welder doing MIG on a heavy aluminum
assembly for Going Postal's rear drive. I haven't seen it in a while,
but I think he was using a spoolgun in that shot.
Also, if you're going with TIG, I've recently "discovered" the
incredible benefit of pulse mode. With the right parameters
(foreground/background current, pulse width, frequency) you can make a
deep, narrow weld with a small heat-affected zone and that doesn't warp
the workpiece, even on thin sheet metal. I just finished welding a
battery box out of 18 gauge sheet (yes it will be reinforced; I'm using
Don Cameron's idea), and the result is incredible. I was able to run a
more or less continuous weld bead (as I discovered toward the end of the
job), with no warpage. If you're going to spend money on a TIG welder
for doing sheet up to 10 gauge, get one that will do pulse, and learn to
use it. I wish I'd learned it before I started my project!
--
Christopher Robison
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Back before electric welding, _everything_ was welded using gas,
including aluminum. Even today, people gas weld aluminum for aircraft.
These guys: http://www.tinmantech.com/ offer equipment related to gas
welding Al. Might be a cheaper route if you have a gas setup already.
You'll need special flux (and their special goggles help, I'm told), and
a lot of practice to weld aluminum.
They also sell aluminum solder and aluminum brazing flux/rod, cheap and
easy. You can use a cheap MAPP torch with these:
http://tinmantech.chainreactionweb.com/html/aero_solder.php
http://tinmantech.chainreactionweb.com/html/aluminum_aero_braze.php
damon henry wrote:
It's been a couple of decades now since my High School welding class,
and I really have not done any welding since, but at the time I was
taught that you can only do aluminum with TIG.
damon
From: "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: electric motorcycle project
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 07:44:17 -0500
OK, I know it's a bit off topic, but I do need to make battery racks
and add motor and trans mounts to my frame, can't think of using any
steel beyond 1/4 inch, probably more like 1/8". I'd like to be able
to do aluminum and maybe stainless. I've got a harbor freight nearby.
I'm pretty good with a torch on steel, but that throws a lot of extra
heat. I don't mind spending $250 to $300 for a moderate power
welder. What is the difference in cost of consumables between using
a shielding gas and flux wire? Is there a flux coated rod you can
use with a TIG torch for non-critical welds, or does it always need
to use gas?
I'm looking at:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=91811
or
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=93793
Can all MIG units do aluminum?
Can flux wire only do aluminum?
None of the under $300 MIG units mention DC, do they all do it? Is
it unnecessary?
Is MIG easier than TIG, or just faster but less precise?
Flux wire, MIG, TIG or Arc? Pros and cons please?
Thanks in advance,
Marty
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What about digikey?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Michael T Kadie
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 19:28
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Anyone know where I can get some persision zenirs or switching
transistors?
Anyone know where I can get some precision zener diodes or switching
transistors?
It's driving me nuts I need 1000 zenirs or switching transistors that
switch at ideally 3.75 +/- .05 for my car (electric cobra
http://ssi-racing.com) battery management circuit. They don't have to
handle any real current (I can dissipate my 1/4 watt off another
transistor).
I've got one quote for bin searching at $5 each!!!!
Thanks,
KD
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #1: Tour de Sol replacement June 9 and 10 in New Jersey
There was no Tour de Sol this year, but if you are in New Jersey June 9 and
10 you can see Battery and Hybrid electric vehicles in competition and on
display at 2 events:
from http://www.eevc.info/
- - - - - - - - -
21st Century Automotive Challenge
The Tour to the Shore
a day-long rally to the scenic Jersey shore
Saturday June 9, 2007
Burlington County Institute of Technology
695 Woodlane Road
Westampton, NJ 08060
In three divisions:
* Gasoline Vehicles
* Diesel/Biodiesel Vehicles
* Gasoline-Electric Hybrids
With awards including:
* Best performance in each division
* Best fuel economy in each division
* Overall best fuel economy
* Grand winner
Saturday evening will conclude with a catered Awards Ceremony & Dinner,
featuring a talk entitled
"Where do we go from here?"
by Nancy Hazard,
former director of the NESEA American Tour de Sol
The Battery Electric Vehicle Competition
* Acceleration Trials
see the zero-to-sixty power of electricity
* Autocross Event
feel a ride unhampered by the combustion engine
* Technology Exhibition
talk to the experts and entrepeneurs about their green experience
Other planned events
* River to the Shore Electric Vehicle Rally
* Tour de Sol Electric Bicycle, Neighborhood Vehicle & "Prototype" Category
* Electric Wheel Chair & Single-Seat Three Wheel Electric Scooter
Competition
June 9 at the Westampton Campus of Burlington Country Institute of Technology
BCIT) in Westampton, NJ, approximately 3-4 miles from exit 5 on the New Jersey
Turnpike.
Burlington County Institute of Technology
695 Woodlane Road
Westampton, NJ 08060
- - - - - - - - -
Burlington Country Earth Fair June 10
Winning cars from the previous day, as well as "prototype" vehicles and their
owners will be there to talk with visitors.
* Mini-Farmer's Market
* Sustainable Living Tent
* Guided Nature Walks
* Artisan Crafts
* Rock Climbing Wall
* Puppet Shows
* Live Music!
* Ice cream & cotton candy!
SPONSORS:
Eastern Electric Vehicle Club
Mid Atlantic Renewable Energy Association (MAREA)
North East Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA)
Details at
http://www.eevc.info/
- - - -
The 2007 TdS Reports are actually about the "21st Century Automotive
Challenge" hosted by the The Eastern Electric Vehicle Club (EEVC).
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2007 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2007
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2007 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the "21st Century Automotive Challenge", see the web page at
http://www.EEVC.info
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Marty,
Get the best welder you can afford. If you have a choice of
sheilding gas or no gas, pick gas. The welds are TONS cleaner and it
takes a whole step off the process. With flux core welding you have the
added step of taking the slag off your weld. Lots of fun and the welds
never turn out as nice as gas welded ones do. I myself use the LINCOLN
SP135 MIG and I love it. Lowes carries all the consumables for this
welder and they also sell a lower version for I think $350. I myself
would not go the lower route - the $650 I paid for my SP135 was well
worth it. Consumables for the SP135 are a spool ($35), and tips ($25),
and gas ($24 a month).
MIG welders can do aluminum but not particularly well. You will have to
switch drive wheels in the unit (pretty cheap) and if the wire can't fit
through the tube in your gun lanyard you will have to replace it with a
bigger one. If I remember right the wire diameter for MIG aluminum is
.035. Steel is .024.
You would NOT use a flux coated rod with a TIG welder. The TIG uses
ARGON sheilding gas during the heating. If the gas is not present you
get a lot of smoke and a burnt out TIG tip. Using a flux rod would just
pollute your weld unneccessarily. TIGs by far make the nicest welds so
just use a regular fill rod that matches the steel you are welding.
If you are a beginner stay away from TIG. My LINCOLN PrecisionTIG185
cost $1600. They are awesome welders worth every penny but unless you
plan on welding a LOT don't bother. A MIG will do almost everything you
could ever need and a third of the cost.
I use ARGON gas exclusively since I use the same tank for both MIG and
TIG. I seem to get very clean welds on the MIG with ARGON. The tank
costs roughly $24 to fill up and will last about a month at the rate I
weld.
If you get a chance to find metal, think bed frames. People throw them
away all the time. They are pretty good quality steel and they are
strong enough for battery boxes. You can get a good quality handheld
bandsaw from fastenal for about $125 which will make cutting that thick
of steel feel like butter.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marty Hewes
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 8:44
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: electric motorcycle project
OK, I know it's a bit off topic, but I do need to make battery racks and
add motor and trans mounts to my frame, can't think of using any steel
beyond
1/4 inch, probably more like 1/8". I'd like to be able to do aluminum
and maybe stainless. I've got a harbor freight nearby.
I'm pretty good with a torch on steel, but that throws a lot of extra
heat.
I don't mind spending $250 to $300 for a moderate power welder. What is
the difference in cost of consumables between using a shielding gas and
flux wire? Is there a flux coated rod you can use with a TIG torch for
non-critical welds, or does it always need to use gas?
I'm looking at:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=91811
or
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=93793
Can all MIG units do aluminum?
Can flux wire only do aluminum?
None of the under $300 MIG units mention DC, do they all do it? Is it
unnecessary?
Is MIG easier than TIG, or just faster but less precise?
Flux wire, MIG, TIG or Arc? Pros and cons please?
Thanks in advance,
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: "lyle sloan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 3:25 AM
Subject: Re: electric motorcycle project
Tim,
Before you begin though do a price check with a local
machinist to see which would be cheaper for you (and
easier in the long run) i.e. whether buying a welder
that you can use again (woohoo, another tool) or a
paid professional weld that you know will hold but not
look or weigh like you envisioned.
>From my experience in welding, I started with one I
bought from Harbor Freight. It's a flux core wire
feed 110V welder that came with a face shield with
tinted welding glass. It was easy to use. In fact, I
was able to weld sheetmetal pans onto one of my VW
beetles and make a welding cart out of a shopping
cart. I thought it was simple after I got over my
initial fear. I just placed the tip where I wanted
and squeezed the trigger. Essentially, I did a couple
of tack welds to check fit and hold in place. Weld in
place and then checked the weld. And yeah, there was
lots of spatter until I got the hang of it.
Keep in mind some of the tools needed in addition to
the welder that may add to your costs:
BFH (Hammer) to check welds
Vice grips
Angle Grinder with available cutting wheel attachment
Depending on the type of stock, a pipe bender or angle
iron bender (this will cut down on adding unnecessary
weight from unnecesary welds)
I know you have been planning this for awhile now so I
offer good luck and have fun riding. OH, measure
twice (if not more) and cut once.
Lyle
--- Tim Gamber wrote:
> Im planning on starting a motorcycle conversion this
> fall if everything goes
> well, nobody around me thinks it will work so it has
> been a little
> discouraging. I plan on using an open style
> motorcycle frame kinda sporty
> type with a 72 volt 450 amp controller a perm 132
> motor and 6 batteries
> around 35 amp/h in size. Im expecting about 30 KM
> max range. Im still unsure
> if i should use a big charger and regs or 6 smaller
> individual chargers. I
> do not have a welder so im obviously going to need
> to get one and also a
> little unsure about how much that will set me back.
> I do not have very much
> welding expirience at all and was just wondering how
> difficult a project
> like this might be? If everything goes well i hope
> it will be able to do
> about 110 km/h. Any encouraging words?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
____________
Need Mail bonding?
Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris is dead on. I would recommend reading the Monster Garage Book,
"How to weld damn near anything." I know people on here are all pissed
off on monster garage but look past that and read this book. It is very
informative on the difference between processes and how to do proper
setups before welding. It will also help you understand how each weld
is done and what steps you need to do before you even strike the arc.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Christopher Robison
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 9:45
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: electric motorcycle project
On Thu, 2007-05-31 at 07:44 -0500, Marty Hewes wrote:
> OK, I know it's a bit off topic, but I do need to make battery racks
> and add motor and trans mounts to my frame, can't think of using any
> steel beyond
> 1/4 inch, probably more like 1/8". I'd like to be able to do aluminum
> and maybe stainless. I've got a harbor freight nearby.
>
> I'm pretty good with a torch on steel, but that throws a lot of extra
heat.
> I don't mind spending $250 to $300 for a moderate power welder. What
> is the difference in cost of consumables between using a shielding gas
> and flux wire? Is there a flux coated rod you can use with a TIG
> torch for non-critical welds, or does it always need to use gas?
>
> I'm looking at:
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=91811
> or
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=93793
>
Bear in mind that a DC-only TIG machine will *not* do aluminum. You need
the repeated swap between straight and reverse polarity (squarewave is
best, sinewave will work) to do aluminum with TIG, the former for
penetration, and the latter for oxide removal.
> Can all MIG units do aluminum?
>
> Can flux wire only do aluminum?
>
> None of the under $300 MIG units mention DC, do they all do it? Is it
> unnecessary?
As far as I know, all the affordable MIG units are DC only. Polarity is
typically switched by a jumper or switch inside the case.
> Is MIG easier than TIG, or just faster but less precise?
"Yes." MIG is vastly easier than TIG. It took me about 10 minutes to
make an effective weld with MIG. It took me about 8 months of
occasional practice before I was confident with my TIG welds (and they
were still ugly). TIG is extremely precise, but only when you've gotten
good at it. :-) I'm still not there yet, but every time I weld I pick
up a little insight into a better technique.
> Flux wire, MIG, TIG or Arc? Pros and cons please?
Flux-core is great for outdoor welding, or where there is a breeze that
would blow the shield gas away. MIG gives a better, cleaner weld if you
can do it in your garage with the fan off. Both of these are about as
easy to do, but with flux-core you'll have more slag and spatter to
clean off afterward.
TIG takes a lot of effort to learn but can produce beautiful welds (and
since you don't necessarily have to feed the filler metal, you can
"edit" welds more easily with TIG, I've found). You'll need two arms and
a foot on the pedal for it though, which makes TIG more of a sit-down,
workbench process than the others. Look on YouTube and you'll find at
least one video I've seen of a guy crawling around under a car with both
feet squeezing a TIG pedal. This is pretty cool, but I think it would
take a lot of practice. (Torch-mounted amp controls are available, but
are clumsy and difficult to use, the prevailing opinion seems to be).
Some people can do stick welding well, but I am terrible at it. I can
make a bead on a flat piece of metal, but I am not good at actually
sticking two pieces of metal together with it.
--
Christopher Robison
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
On Tue, 2007-05-29 at 11:16 -0700, john fisher wrote:
> > Frontpage is ... ASP is ... As long as the webhost provides this
> > functionality, why
> > not utilize it.
> well they suck pretty much and they are proprietary. Stick with simple,
> supported software that runs everywhere. Anyway
> these techs are too time-consuming for non-experts who just want results. So
> maybe I shouldn't have mentioned them.
>
My personal (and admitedly biased) opinion:
micro$oft extensions are (in part) designed to create code that doesn't
work well on non-m$ browsers. micro$oft is to software as General
Motors is to EV.
<< end rant.
Use http://validator.w3.org/ to test for compliance to actual standards,
allowing all browsers to work properly.
---
Steve
ps: I'm NOT trying to start a flame war, don't bother replying further
to my comments.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone tried the PakTrakr?
http://www.paktrakr.com/
It has some interesting features (weak battery warning, low water warning)
and is inexpensive compared to an e-meter. $200 if you just need to count
Ah and not monitor individual batteries.
.
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i second a previous posts regarding amps on the
pmg132, i have an axe7234 72 volt 300 amp on my pmg132
and i have it set for only 80% power, save some money
and get a lower amp controller for that pmg132
also on welding be careful how much heat you apply to
the frame you could weaken it and if you've done any
cutting to the frame applying heat could cause the
frame to contort.
--- Tim Gamber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Im planning on starting a motorcycle conversion this
> fall if everything goes
> well, nobody around me thinks it will work so it has
> been a little
> discouraging. I plan on using an open style
> motorcycle frame kinda sporty
> type with a 72 volt 450 amp controller a perm 132
> motor and 6 batteries
> around 35 amp/h in size. Im expecting about 30 KM
> max range. Im still unsure
> if i should use a big charger and regs or 6 smaller
> individual chargers. I
> do not have a welder so im obviously going to need
> to get one and also a
> little unsure about how much that will set me back.
> I do not have very much
> welding expirience at all and was just wondering how
> difficult a project
> like this might be? If everything goes well i hope
> it will be able to do
> about 110 km/h. Any encouraging words?
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
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>
Albuquerque, NM
http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1000
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1179
http://geocities.com/solarcookingman
____________________________________________________________________________________
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Tinman is regarded as The Expert by the motorcycle chassis list, who really know their shop stuff. He is primarily
aircraft-oriented, so safety is well-examined. ;>)
Couple of points:
if you weld as opposed to braze-weld AL, you probably will ruin the heat treating, but it depends on which alloy. A big
headache for something simple like battery holders. Braze-welding is lower temperature. If you have an AL bike frame,
its probably heat treated, again depending on whatever secret process the Manufacturer used and won't discuss. You might
even warp it, which is easy to do. People do weld and straighten frames all the time, but they have a jig to measure from.
There is nothing wrong with bolts or rivets, bridges are held up by them, and some bent strap with bolts may be quicker
and easier than learning to weld. Just use hardened drill bits to save effort. Plus, they don't burn holes in your
clothes and skin. But yeah I like welding too and a new tool is a good tool.
Fiberglas is another option, and might even stand up better to acid. It doesn't require any special tools other than a
respirator. I gotta wonder if there aren't off-the-shelf plastic cases that would do the job too, if only you could find
the right size.
Jf
Eric Poulsen wrote:
Back before electric welding, _everything_ was welded using gas,
including aluminum. Even today, people gas weld aluminum for aircraft.
These guys: http://www.tinmantech.com/ offer equipment related to gas
welding Al. Might be a cheaper route if you have a gas setup already.
You'll need special flux (and their special goggles help, I'm told), and
a lot of practice to weld aluminum.
They also sell aluminum solder and aluminum brazing flux/rod, cheap and
easy. You can use a cheap MAPP torch with these:
http://tinmantech.chainreactionweb.com/html/aero_solder.php
http://tinmantech.chainreactionweb.com/html/aluminum_aero_braze.php
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I thought about going with a ReadyWelder. But found a great deal on a used
Lincoln instead. I guess for most people, coming up with 2 or 3 batteries
may be an issue. But anybody here NOT have 3 spare batteries laying
around? I would think you could get an old POS stick welder and use that
for a power source to feed the ReadyWelder. Looks like a very useful tool.
And of course, it's also a spool gun.
Darin
BadFishRacing
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Christopher Robison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 08:29:23 -0500
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Welding aluminum, was electric motorcycle project
On Thu, 2007-05-31 at 13:00 +0000, damon henry wrote:
> It's been a couple of decades now since my High School welding class, and
I
> really have not done any welding since, but at the time I was taught that
> you can only do aluminum with TIG.
Aluminum is best welded with squarewave TIG as far as I understand
(among those processes that a hobbyist can afford), but it can be done
with MIG. You'll need a spool gun though, because aluminum wire will
get jammed in a long MIG hose. A spool gun puts the spool right next to
the nozzle.
I picked up a ReadyWelder for less than $400 off of ebay -- it's
basically a battery-powered spool gun. Hook it up to a pair of
batteries and a gas bottle, and you've got more power than you could buy
with twice the money with a normal mains-powered unit (It produces about
250A at 24V, between 350 and 400A at 36V). I have yet to try it on
aluminum.
The way that squarewave TIG deals with the aluminum oxide layer (which
must be eliminated or it will greatly weaken the weld) is with the
reverse-polarity portion of the squarewave. This brings heat to the
surface of the workpiece (and also to the electrode) and helps to blast
away the oxide. I believe MIG welding uses reverse polarity all the
time so as to effectively melt the wire, so this may also be how
aluminum welding is possible with MIG. (Flux-core welding on steel, in
contrast, is done with "straight polarity").
One thing's evident from the reading I've done on the subject: aluminum
welding is very different from steel, and for most folks that means it's
*hard*. Best to do some study and practice before attempting a weld that
your life will depend on. :-)
--
Christopher Robison
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!
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I'm currently BETA testing the PakTrakr with the
optional current sensor.
I like it, especially with the current sensor. It
gives amp & watt usage in realtime, along with the
ability to give you realtime readings on each battery
in the pack, while driving or charging.
The current sensor is a HallEffect module, that you
simply run one of your high amperage cables through.
No interconnection to the pack for current reading.
There is a wire though for each positive terminal in
your pack, along with one terminal to the most
negative terminal in the pack.
It has several Graphic display modes, that you can
scroll through and choose to display.
Have been meaning to put up a page just for the
PakTrakr on my website, just haven't had the time to
do so yet. I'll do my best to shoot some photos of the
various screens in the current beta unit that I have.
I don't work for PakTrakr, just got lucky in getting
in on the BETA testing program.
Mike - www.texomaev.com
--- Adrian DeLeon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Has anyone tried the PakTrakr?
>
> http://www.paktrakr.com/
>
> It has some interesting features (weak battery
> warning, low water warning)
> and is inexpensive compared to an e-meter. $200 if
> you just need to count
> Ah and not monitor individual batteries.
>
> .
>
>
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On Thu, 2007-05-31 at 12:47 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I thought about going with a ReadyWelder. But found a great deal on a used
> Lincoln instead. I guess for most people, coming up with 2 or 3 batteries
> may be an issue. But anybody here NOT have 3 spare batteries laying
> around? I would think you could get an old POS stick welder and use that
> for a power source to feed the ReadyWelder. Looks like a very useful tool.
> And of course, it's also a spool gun.
The ReadyWelder definitely has some build quality issues; it's certainly
not the most precisely-made tool in my garage. And, since it is a spool
gun it's heavy ... you'll get tired of holding up all that weight for a
long time. The trigger is pretty heavy as well since you're literally
holding the gas valve open with your finger as you weld.
However, in terms of amps per dollar, portability and continuous
performance (no duty cycle issues, it lasts as long as your batteries do
even at full output), it's a really good deal. The 10000ADP model comes
with a separate power supply for the feed motor, so it can in fact also
be connected to a constant-current power supply like a stick welder, or
in my case, my TIG welder.
You'll also find that since the wire feed speed is set by a thumbwheel
on the gun, you can adjust feed rate while welding, something that's
harder to do on a normal MIG welder.
It seems like the ideal tool for an EV builder who has access to
batteries, and doesn't want to spend much on a welder.
--
Christopher Robison
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!
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In our last exciting episode dale henderson exclaimed:
> i second a previous posts regarding amps on the
> pmg132, i have an axe7234 72 volt 300 amp on my pmg132
> and i have it set for only 80% power, save some money
> and get a lower amp controller for that pmg132
I was thinking about using the PMG132 on my motorcycle conversion, but now
I'm having second thoughts.
What would you recommend instead for a 72V system?
I'm planning on using six 55Ah batteries and would like to get a 40 mile
range and 65MPH out of it.
--
Timothy W. Foreman + [EMAIL PROTECTED] + http://timf.anansi-web.com
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
'82 R100RS - "Churchy La Femme" | '83 Kawasaki GPz305 - "The Scoot"
'93 K1100RS - "Brunhilda" | '83 Yamaha Seca 750 w/Sidecar!
---------+----------
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the
intelligent are filled with doubt." --Bertrand Russell
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Skip Montanaro wrote "Are there any considerations
when using these beasties instead of PbA?"
Sustained discharge current is limited, but it works
for my application. And due to thermal breakdown I'm
not sure how long they will last -- it looks like 5
years at least, but I'm hoping for 10 since it is
pretty cool here. And since they are quite expensive,
having the BMS operational is key to protect the
investment -- controlling the charger, and warning the
driver via console lamps when to back off and when to
stop. But it was pretty much plug and play once I
figured out the interconnect and relay scheme. Marc
Kohler at Valence was very helpful providing me
support through all that.
And they have many advantages -- high specific energy
and power, solid electrolyte, thermally stable, simple
charge algorithm, and an integrated BMS.
"I take it they ain't cheap... Dare I ask how much
you paid for your pack (+ BMS)?"
$17,568 for 12 12.8V 100Ah 33 lb U24-12-XP modules,
and $100 for a U-BMS-XP-HV battery management
controller.
Chris Jones
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/733
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