EV Digest 6828
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Ah counter - PakTrakr
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Minimum flywheel thickness
by Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Ah counter
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Ah counter - PakTrakr
by Michael Barkley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: electric motorcycle project
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Almost !#it myself when I got this email!!!
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: electric motorcycle project
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) conversion candidate?
by "Michael Wendell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Ah counter - Paktrakr
by Michael Barkley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: electric motorcycle project
by "George Swartz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Ah counter - Paktrakr
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: electric motorcycle project
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: electric motorcycle project
by john fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Minimum flywheel thickness
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Zilla controller insides
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: electric motorcycle project
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Weather proofness of electric car components
by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Charging batteries in parallel (Rescue GEM)
by "Donald \(EV List\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Weather proofness of electric car components
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Zilla controller insides
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Zilla controller insides
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Zilla controller insides
by Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Weather proofness of electric car components
by "Will Beckett \(becketts\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hall effect is neat because it's isolated and doesn't require a power
supply from the pack to power the ADC.
However, Hall Effect has 2 problems. One, it has a significant
hysteresis error that offsets the reading. This is most a problem when
the current is low for a long time though. Second is a sensor cannot
tolerate surges beyond its max rating, even briefly. It will magnetize
the sensor immediately and increase the error. So if you have a 200amp
sensor and surge to 300amps on a hard acceleration there's a problem.
When you go to larger sensors, try to find a 300 amp one, the ones with
larger ratings always come with greater hysteresis errors. It works
better if the controller has a solid, immediate current limit that
matches the capabilities of the sensor. I say "immediate" because it
can't just use a filter on the current sensor reading and fold back if
the average over the last half second or whatever exceeds the limit.
I'm pretty sure it needs to cut the PWM cycle short even within the
cycle itself.
There's also a tricky part that many of these sensors have a somewhat
small opening in them for the current they carry. You can't have
terminal ends on it and still put it through the hole. The cable must
be going through the sensor when it's built. Also the cable probably
can't have insulation on it eithe since that cuts down a lot on the
amount of copper you can get in there and any non-conductive space
inside the hole decreases the accuracy of the device.
Danny
Michael Barkley wrote:
I'm currently BETA testing the PakTrakr with the
optional current sensor.
I like it, especially with the current sensor. It
gives amp & watt usage in realtime, along with the
ability to give you realtime readings on each battery
in the pack, while driving or charging.
The current sensor is a HallEffect module, that you
simply run one of your high amperage cables through.
No interconnection to the pack for current reading.
There is a wire though for each positive terminal in
your pack, along with one terminal to the most
negative terminal in the pack.
It has several Graphic display modes, that you can
scroll through and choose to display.
Have been meaning to put up a page just for the
PakTrakr on my website, just haven't had the time to
do so yet. I'll do my best to shoot some photos of the
various screens in the current beta unit that I have.
I don't work for PakTrakr, just got lucky in getting
in on the BETA testing program.
Mike - www.texomaev.com
--- Adrian DeLeon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Has anyone tried the PakTrakr?
http://www.paktrakr.com/
It has some interesting features (weak battery
warning, low water warning)
and is inexpensive compared to an e-meter. $200 if
you just need to count
Ah and not monitor individual batteries.
.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A friend and I are converting a 2001 Saturn SL and though we have all
the parts necessary to assemble the motor and transmission, I've run
into a problem. The flywheel needs to sit closer to the motor than the
adapter plate we received will allow, because the diameter of the recess
is too small.
We'll need to remove a lot of material to make it fit, and this isn't
really a bad thing as it will be good to make it as light as possible
anyway. My question is, how light is that?
Or more practically, is there a miinmum thickness we should shoot for,
out at the edge where the pressure plate attaches? Since in an EV
there's not a lot of slipping the clutch, I'm hoping that we don't have
to worry as much about heat and distortion. Then again there is a lot of
force involved from the springs, and I'd rather not ruin the flywheel by
making it too thin. I was hoping we could leave about 3/8" -- is this
enough material? Can I take off more?
--
Christopher Robison
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It does look like an interesting meter, but as far as I can tell it only has
an optional part for sensing current not a feature for counting amp hours.
damon
From: "Adrian DeLeon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Ah counter
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 10:59:37 -0700
Has anyone tried the PakTrakr?
http://www.paktrakr.com/
It has some interesting features (weak battery warning, low water warning)
and is inexpensive compared to an e-meter. $200 if you just need to count
Ah and not monitor individual batteries.
.
_________________________________________________________________
Catch suspicious messages before you open themwith Windows Live Hotmail.
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_protection_0507
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Danny, thanks for the info, I'll have to order a shunt
& amp meter, then compare readings. I did strip the
insulation from the cables, stuffed as much copper in
the square hole (they are working on getting a round
version I believe) as I could and then reinsulated
each end of the cable. I'm still using lead battery
terminals, so it wasn't a problem building the cable.
Mike - www.texomaev.com
--- Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hall effect is neat because it's isolated and
> doesn't require a power
> supply from the pack to power the ADC.
>
> However, Hall Effect has 2 problems. One, it has a
> significant
> hysteresis error that offsets the reading. This is
> most a problem when
> the current is low for a long time though. Second
> is a sensor cannot
> tolerate surges beyond its max rating, even briefly.
> It will magnetize
> the sensor immediately and increase the error. So
> if you have a 200amp
> sensor and surge to 300amps on a hard acceleration
> there's a problem.
> When you go to larger sensors, try to find a 300 amp
> one, the ones with
> larger ratings always come with greater hysteresis
> errors. It works
> better if the controller has a solid, immediate
> current limit that
> matches the capabilities of the sensor. I say
> "immediate" because it
> can't just use a filter on the current sensor
> reading and fold back if
> the average over the last half second or whatever
> exceeds the limit.
> I'm pretty sure it needs to cut the PWM cycle short
> even within the
> cycle itself.
>
> There's also a tricky part that many of these
> sensors have a somewhat
> small opening in them for the current they carry.
> You can't have
> terminal ends on it and still put it through the
> hole. The cable must
> be going through the sensor when it's built. Also
> the cable probably
> can't have insulation on it eithe since that cuts
> down a lot on the
> amount of copper you can get in there and any
> non-conductive space
> inside the hole decreases the accuracy of the
> device.
>
> Danny
>
> Michael Barkley wrote:
>
> >I'm currently BETA testing the PakTrakr with the
> >optional current sensor.
> >
> >I like it, especially with the current sensor. It
> >gives amp & watt usage in realtime, along with the
> >ability to give you realtime readings on each
> battery
> >in the pack, while driving or charging.
> >
> >The current sensor is a HallEffect module, that you
> >simply run one of your high amperage cables
> through.
> >No interconnection to the pack for current reading.
> >There is a wire though for each positive terminal
> in
> >your pack, along with one terminal to the most
> >negative terminal in the pack.
> >
> >It has several Graphic display modes, that you can
> >scroll through and choose to display.
> >
> >Have been meaning to put up a page just for the
> >PakTrakr on my website, just haven't had the time
> to
> >do so yet. I'll do my best to shoot some photos of
> the
> >various screens in the current beta unit that I
> have.
> >
> >I don't work for PakTrakr, just got lucky in
> getting
> >in on the BETA testing program.
> >
> >
> >Mike - www.texomaev.com
> >
> >
> >--- Adrian DeLeon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>Has anyone tried the PakTrakr?
> >>
> >>http://www.paktrakr.com/
> >>
> >>It has some interesting features (weak battery
> >>warning, low water warning)
> >>and is inexpensive compared to an e-meter. $200 if
> >>you just need to count
> >>Ah and not monitor individual batteries.
> >>
> >>.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Torch or MIG welding aluminum is not commonly used for aircraft.
MIG welding on steel is also NOT common for aircraft. In fact it's far
more than "frowned upon".
One of the top benefits of TIG is supposed to be that welds with poor
penetration are obvious. MIG can cover them up and sometimes even an
expert inspector cannot find the problem on a very weak weld.
MIG is not so good at very thin metal and VERY tricky to use for aluminum.
TIG is considered harder to learn than MIG, but not really. They say
it's just a "special touch" to get a hang of. Then you can make better
and more reliable welds than MIG fairly easily. On aluminum, learning
TIG should be easier than trying to figure out how to use MIG on aluminum.
There is a oxyacetylene welding alloy for welding- actually I think it's
brazing- aluminum. Can't recall the name of the product, it's expensive
too. Didn't seem economical compared to TIG in the long run. There's a
video on the net showing it and it looks spectacular. Showed testing
where the aluminum would always fail before the joint which is hard to
achieve with brazing or soldering on aluminum. However, IIRC it came up
on another email list where some experienced welding guys had tried it
and said it was really difficult to get good results. The video was
probably done by somebody with a really magic touch making it look
unrealistically easy. If it takes that much training to get right and
then is not competitive with buying or renting a TIG if you need to weld
a lot of aluminum, there's not a lot of call for it.
Danny
Eric Poulsen wrote:
Back before electric welding, _everything_ was welded using gas,
including aluminum. Even today, people gas weld aluminum for
aircraft. These guys: http://www.tinmantech.com/ offer equipment
related to gas welding Al. Might be a cheaper route if you have a gas
setup already. You'll need special flux (and their special goggles
help, I'm told), and a lot of practice to weld aluminum.
They also sell aluminum solder and aluminum brazing flux/rod, cheap
and easy. You can use a cheap MAPP torch with these:
http://tinmantech.chainreactionweb.com/html/aero_solder.php
http://tinmantech.chainreactionweb.com/html/aluminum_aero_braze.php
damon henry wrote:
It's been a couple of decades now since my High School welding class,
and I really have not done any welding since, but at the time I was
taught that you can only do aluminum with TIG.
damon
From: "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: electric motorcycle project
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 07:44:17 -0500
OK, I know it's a bit off topic, but I do need to make battery racks
and add motor and trans mounts to my frame, can't think of using any
steel beyond 1/4 inch, probably more like 1/8". I'd like to be able
to do aluminum and maybe stainless. I've got a harbor freight nearby.
I'm pretty good with a torch on steel, but that throws a lot of
extra heat. I don't mind spending $250 to $300 for a moderate power
welder. What is the difference in cost of consumables between using
a shielding gas and flux wire? Is there a flux coated rod you can
use with a TIG torch for non-critical welds, or does it always need
to use gas?
I'm looking at:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=91811
or
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=93793
Can all MIG units do aluminum?
Can flux wire only do aluminum?
None of the under $300 MIG units mention DC, do they all do it? Is
it unnecessary?
Is MIG easier than TIG, or just faster but less precise?
Flux wire, MIG, TIG or Arc? Pros and cons please?
Thanks in advance,
Marty
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Bob. Sorry I'm off topic but this is related to the trailer thing.
I'm renting an equipment trailer from a rental company to haul my
car. It's used to haul Bobcats and backhoes.
They usually rent those trailers out during the week to contractors
so they sit at the rental place over the weekend. Last year they
charged me $68.00 to rent an equipment trailer which is a good
price. But before I could use it I had to repair the ramps so I
could get my car up and I replaced one of the floor boards which was
in bad shape and one floor board was missing. For the ramps I just
bolted a 2 by 10 on top of each ramp so it would be smoother ride
going up. The trailer is a bit big for hauling a Ford Escort and it
had a pintel hitch but it worked out in the end. I'm using my Dad's
diesel Ram truck so it can haul 18,000 pounds easily so the truck can
easily tow the equipment trailer.
The good news is I called them again this year and they remembered me
and said they got in brand new trailers that would hook up great with
the truck. So I'm picking that up tomorrow afternoon.
But an equipment trailer is something to consider. One for a single
Bobcat would work for your car.
U-haul has been a big problem to find trailers. They usually reserve
them for people moving with the U-Haul vans. They seem to avoid
renting them out to people who just want to move a car. That's what I
found when I was renting them a few years ago.
Chip
On May 31, 2007, at 2:56 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: May 31, 2007 10:46:05 AM EDT
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Almost !#it myself when I got this email!!!
----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 6:46 PM
Subject: Almost !#it myself when I got this email!!!
WOW, I feel SOOO lucky, lets hope this is REAL! I got this email
in response to a Craig'slist add looking for VW Rabbit!!!!
Wow! Like the song sez;" Some guys have All the Luck!"I have given
up on Rabbits in Corrupticut, ,just down the road from you. Oh I
can have all I want, but they are mulch! VW never got their Rust
Bucket, built in Rust-O-Matic streight from the factory, nonsence
under control. Yeah the 82's and on up were a lot better than the
famous 79's where you had to LIFT drivers door, to close, because
the damn door post rotted away. And the fuse panel right in the
rain stream, so you had quirky electrical problems. Ah! The bitter
memories flood back, yeah! Perpetually WET floor padding as ALL
VW's LEAK!Mystery seepage, under floor mats. But Other than That,
Rabbits make great conversions. I would STILL be driving mine had
I not wrecked it towing it home from Joliet, last spring. So go
for the Rabbit, but DO look underneith, make sure it isnt a Bondo-
Rosa Special!They all rot on the floors, behind the wheelwells. So
crawl under if you can put your fingers through, forgetaboutit!
Golfs are a tad newer as ar Jettas. I have a 89 Jetta I did, got
from Bill Glickman(Hi Bill!) HE had picked out a clean one, so no
rust issue. I',m having OTHER issues with my wiring, but I think
when cars STAND around a few years these things happen?
Alota Jettas out there, are relatively light 2000lbs or so? My
GVW is 3400lbs sez so on the door column! I'm just THERE with a 90
volt setup. HAD 120 volts and 13 batteries in the trunk, but the
ass was draggin' so took out 5, Magic number! Car rides decently,
is a pleasure to drive, not QUITE the Led Sled it was at 120 volts.
At 90 volts I loose a bit of get up and go, and range, although I
did manage a 30 plus mile RT run to a car show down in Old Lyme,
from Killingworth.The power steering runs off the motor as does the
brake vacuum, a "Wrap around" belt setup works fine. In parking,
manuevrering you slip the clutch to get the PB'sand PS. A quirk ya
get used to.At 90 volts car has decent on the road performance and
I can STILL run the freeway with dignity [EMAIL PROTECTED], takes a
little longer to get there!
So, to get to the point, at last: Jetti make decent conversions.
You can keep ALL the badd-eries OUT of the cabin ,Woo Woo!!STILL
have usable trunk space, hell! Bigger than the Bunny, car,
anyhow.Can use ALL your seats, for normal size people;kids and
whatnot, not 4 ,300 lb galoots like me!<g>
NopwIF I can get my shit together by tomorrow, to U hall it down
to PoDC. Like reinstall exhaust system in my van, get the damn
trailer. Those U haul Car Transporters are hard to get!
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Personally I think an ADC 6.7 inch motor is perfect for a motorcycle. Of
course, I am biased, since that is what I have on mine:-) Also I didn't
realize until my recent "goings on" with Jim Husted that there are many
different sizes of ADC 6.7 inch motors. The one we put together for my
Datsun truck is an 8 brush version, where the one on my motorcycle is a 4
brush one with a shorter lighter armature. It's also interesting to note
that the same brushes are used in the 6.7 inch motor as an ADC 9 inch which
means that they are great at handling a lot of current until, of course,
they get too hot :-)
Also, I think that you will find that 6 55Ah lead acid batteries give you
about half the useable range you are hoping for. I have one of the few
electric motorcycles that I have ever heard of going 40+ miles on a single
charge, and that was with 228 lbs of Saft STM100 Nicad batteries. The same
bike with 200 lbs of Lead Acid UPS batteries (that sat in there original
boxes on a shelf for two years before being given to me) was only good for
10 - 12 miles. That was 4 50 ahr batteries, but when it comes to lead acid,
weight is usually as good if not a better indicator than the manufactures
Ahr rating. 300 lbs of brand new lead should net you around 20+ miles of
useable range.
damon
What would you recommend instead for a 72V system?
I'm planning on using six 55Ah batteries and would like to get a 40 mile
range and 65MPH out of it.
--
Timothy W. Foreman + [EMAIL PROTECTED] + http://timf.anansi-web.com
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
'82 R100RS - "Churchy La Femme" | '83 Kawasaki GPz305 - "The Scoot"
'93 K1100RS - "Brunhilda" | '83 Yamaha Seca 750 w/Sidecar!
---------+----------
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the
intelligent are filled with doubt." --Bertrand Russell
_________________________________________________________________
PC Magazines 2007 editors choice for best Web mailaward-winning Windows
Live Hotmail.
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_pcmag_0507
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
sanfu mini pickup truck.
might make a nice conversion for someone. bad
motor, current bidding is at $510. i have no
affiliation with the seller, just saw it and
thought one of you folks might be interested.
this link will bounce you to the ebay auction...
http://www.kwyjibo.com/ebay.asp?260123203518
m.
================================================
Michael Wendell
Web/Graphics Guy
Speedgoat Bicycles
www.speedgoat.com
724.238.7181
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
win an amazing bike, fight breast cancer:
http://www.speedgoat.com/raffle1.asp
================================================
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I posted a FEATURES list of the PakTrakr at the
website: www.texomaev.com , click on the conversion
project link - scroll to the bottom picture (Paktraker
Features). Click on it to enlarge the photo enough to
read.
Not trying to push the PakTrakr, just thought some
might be interested in it, not to mention, let me know
of any issues to look out for, while beta testing.
Mike
--- damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It does look like an interesting meter, but as far
> as I can tell it only has
> an optional part for sensing current not a feature
> for counting amp hours.
>
> damon
>
>
> >From: "Adrian DeLeon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> >To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> >Subject: RE: Ah counter
> >Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 10:59:37 -0700
> >
> >Has anyone tried the PakTrakr?
> >
> >http://www.paktrakr.com/
> >
> >It has some interesting features (weak battery
> warning, low water warning)
> >and is inexpensive compared to an e-meter. $200 if
> you just need to count
> >Ah and not monitor individual batteries.
> >
> >.
> >
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Catch suspicious messages before you open themwith
> Windows Live Hotmail.
>
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_protection_0507
>
>
Michael Barkley
www.texomaev.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a Prius battery available to me in good condition. (as of this
morning) I have not researched this yet. Any ideas on whether this would
make a good motorcycle battery compared to lead, or NICD? Any downside? I
was planning on home made AC drive anyway, so high battery voltage is O.K.
George Swartz
On Thu, 31 May 2007 19:48:58 +0000, damon henry wrote
> Personally I think an ADC 6.7 inch motor is perfect for a
> motorcycle. Of course, I am biased, since that is what I have on
> mine:-) Also I didn't realize until my recent "goings on" with Jim
> Husted that there are many different sizes of ADC 6.7 inch motors.
> The one we put together for my Datsun truck is an 8 brush version,
> where the one on my motorcycle is a 4 brush one with a shorter
> lighter armature. It's also interesting to note that the same
> brushes are used in the 6.7 inch motor as an ADC 9 inch which means
> that they are great at handling a lot of current until, of course,
> they get too hot :-)
>
> Also, I think that you will find that 6 55Ah lead acid batteries
> give you about half the useable range you are hoping for. I have
> one of the few electric motorcycles that I have ever heard of going
> 40+ miles on a single charge, and that was with 228 lbs of Saft
> STM100 Nicad batteries. The same bike with 200 lbs of Lead Acid UPS
> batteries (that sat in there original boxes on a shelf for two years
> before being given to me) was only good for 10 - 12 miles. That was
> 4 50 ahr batteries, but when it comes to lead acid, weight is
> usually as good if not a better indicator than the manufactures Ahr
> rating. 300 lbs of brand new lead should net you around 20+ miles
> of useable range.
>
> damon
>
> >What would you recommend instead for a 72V system?
> >
> >I'm planning on using six 55Ah batteries and would like to get a 40 mile
> >range and 65MPH out of it.
> >--
> > Timothy W. Foreman + [EMAIL PROTECTED] + http://timf.anansi-web.com
> > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> > '82 R100RS - "Churchy La Femme" | '83 Kawasaki GPz305 - "The Scoot"
> > '93 K1100RS - "Brunhilda" | '83 Yamaha Seca 750 w/Sidecar!
> > ---------+----------
> >"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the
> > intelligent are filled with doubt." --Bertrand Russell
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> PC Magazines 2007 editors choice for best Web mailaward-winning
> Windows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-
> windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-
us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_pcmag_0507
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ahhh, now we are getting closer. So I see two features listed here one is
30 hour ahr and 30 min amp. It looks like the 30 hour ahr may give me what
I am after. Do you have experience using this feature? It is described as
a 30 hour bar-graph log of current in/out, amp hours. What does this mean?
Is there a bar-graph plus a numeric representation?
For my Nicads I really want two things. First when I am on the road I want
to know how may ahrs I have taken out of them. This is because NiCads have
a very flat discharge curve until they are almost empty, then they fall like
a rock. It is not like lead where they gradually get slower and slower.
Second, I want to know how much energy to put back in them on charge.
Tracking the ahrs and replacing what I took out plus the correct amount of
overcharge seems to be the most reliable method of getting them properly
charged.
thanks for the help
damon
From: Michael Barkley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Ah counter - Paktrakr
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 13:01:39 -0700 (PDT)
I posted a FEATURES list of the PakTrakr at the
website: www.texomaev.com , click on the conversion
project link - scroll to the bottom picture (Paktraker
Features). Click on it to enlarge the photo enough to
read.
Not trying to push the PakTrakr, just thought some
might be interested in it, not to mention, let me know
of any issues to look out for, while beta testing.
Mike
--- damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It does look like an interesting meter, but as far
> as I can tell it only has
> an optional part for sensing current not a feature
> for counting amp hours.
>
> damon
>
>
> >From: "Adrian DeLeon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> >To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> >Subject: RE: Ah counter
> >Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 10:59:37 -0700
> >
> >Has anyone tried the PakTrakr?
> >
> >http://www.paktrakr.com/
> >
> >It has some interesting features (weak battery
> warning, low water warning)
> >and is inexpensive compared to an e-meter. $200 if
> you just need to count
> >Ah and not monitor individual batteries.
> >
> >.
> >
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
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>
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>
>
Michael Barkley
www.texomaev.com
_________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Danny Miller wrote:
Torch or MIG welding aluminum is not commonly used for aircraft.
Not common amongst commercial aircraft, but moreso with home-built aircraft.
MIG welding on steel is also NOT common for aircraft. In fact it's
far more than "frowned upon".
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think what we meant was "used for home-built aircraft" and therefore in reach
of EV builders.
JF
Danny Miller wrote:
Torch or MIG welding aluminum is not commonly used for aircraft.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Christopher,
A racing type flywheel may weigh as less than 12 lbs.
To give you a ideal of what my flywheel is, which is normally for a 350
cu.in., the center flange is only 1/2 inch thick and the rest of the
flywheel wheel is 3/4 inch thick. There is no recess in the back of the fly
wheel, but the center hole is a somewhat press fit over the a extended nose
of the motor coupler, so it centers it. Also there should be a guild pin
between the flywheel bolt holes on the motor coupler which also centers the
flywheel onto the motor coupler.
The pressure plate holes are install in a 3/4 inch deep part of the
flywheel. There was a back flange that made this edge about 1-1/5 inch
thick, but it was for mounting the ring gear and enough mass to balance a
external balance engine. All of this portion was cut away. The ring gear and
this part of the flywheel for 3-inches toward the center was made 3/4 inch
thick and than the 6.5 center is at 1/2 inch thick.
To move the flywheel back another 1/8 inch, it was easier to remove the
material off the back of the motor coupler. I had to make sure that I leave
a little ridge on the back of the motor coupler, which will butt against the
motor bearing race which also turns with the shaft, but will not scrape on
the motor housing.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 1:09 PM
Subject: Minimum flywheel thickness
> A friend and I are converting a 2001 Saturn SL and though we have all
> the parts necessary to assemble the motor and transmission, I've run
> into a problem. The flywheel needs to sit closer to the motor than the
> adapter plate we received will allow, because the diameter of the recess
> is too small.
>
> We'll need to remove a lot of material to make it fit, and this isn't
> really a bad thing as it will be good to make it as light as possible
> anyway. My question is, how light is that?
>
> Or more practically, is there a miinmum thickness we should shoot for,
> out at the edge where the pressure plate attaches? Since in an EV
> there's not a lot of slipping the clutch, I'm hoping that we don't have
> to worry as much about heat and distortion. Then again there is a lot of
> force involved from the springs, and I'd rather not ruin the flywheel by
> making it too thin. I was hoping we could leave about 3/8" -- is this
> enough material? Can I take off more?
>
>
> --
> Christopher Robison
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm curious about what the zillas look like on the inside, does anyone
have photos they could share?
those of you that might think that's wrong to ask try to realize that
curiosity is not a sin and that's how we learn. many of us have opened
things to see what it looks inside even if we never really learned
anything from it. Otmar certainly has opened a curtis or two in his time.
thanks in advance
Dan Frederiksen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually, even homebuilders usually only tack weld the frame tubes into
place with a MIG, then truck it over to a TIG welder to finish the job
all the way around.
There's one "shade tree" sort of mfg who makes MIG powered parachute
frames. He's pretty good with it, better than the average joe, but has
been heavily criticized at times. There was a case where a part which
looked like a solid weld broke off- fortunately while it was being
taxied around.
Danny
Eric Poulsen wrote:
Danny Miller wrote:
Torch or MIG welding aluminum is not commonly used for aircraft.
Not common amongst commercial aircraft, but moreso with home-built
aircraft.
MIG welding on steel is also NOT common for aircraft. In fact it's
far more than "frowned upon".
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just wondering what people's opinion/experience with the weather
resistance of electric car components is. I was talking to someone
(an automotive mechanic) who just did a conversion of a '98 Ranger
with the 9" ADC, Curtiss controller, etc. And he said that he wasn't
really happy with some of the components, not being suitable for
getting wet and dirt filled and such. I know that I am used to being
able to powerwash the ICE engines of my cars at the carwash without
problems (diesel's so no ignition to get wet), and I drive through
puddles, snowdrifts, dusty dirt roads, all the time. It seems that
any automobile component has to be able to handle a certain amount of
dirt and water. But on lots of EV's I see naked terminals and
contactors and all kinds of stuff that wouldn't pass muster in the
weather. Is this an issue with manufacturers of the components, or
price (I imagine it would drive the cost up a bit), or do people only
drive their EV's in nice sunny weather?
I remember when the Reva was being developed, it had to withstand
100,000 km of driving on dirt roads, and be able to ford 16" deep
water. But that was India too :)
Zeke
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have covered the plates and remember reading that I shouldn't fill the cells
if the battery is
discharged. However, I also remember from the Battery FAQ that "The sulfate
crystals are more
soluble in water than in electrolyte." Once the battery is 90 - 95% charged
should I add water
to within 1/4 inch of the filler tube to help further break down the sulfate?
Thanks
Donald
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ricky Suiter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 04:11
Subject: Re: Charging batteries in parallel (Rescue GEM)
> First, if you haven't make sure there is enough water
> in the batteries to cover the plates then hit them
> individually with your charger. Letting them simmer at
> ~15.5 volts each for a while might regain some
> capacity, but likely it won't be much. After a while
> they will just be burning off water.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Zeke,
It is best to install all components in water tight enclosures. You can get
small cast aluminum chassis boxes with a o-ring gasket too.
My Zilla and main contactor that is in the motor bay is mounted on a metal
chassis board that extended 8-inches from the fire wall and only 1/8 down
from the bottom of the hood. The hood back and edges have a glue in door
gasket that is mounted with 3-M mounting tape.
You can install splash guards on the inside of the wheels, so you will not
get any splash on the components and motor. These are 1/16 inch rubber
sheets that are fasten to the inner panels with industrial strength Velcro
and magnetic buttons. These splash guards are drape all the way down on
both sides of the motor.
A wide taper skid plate is welded to the bottom of the existing engine cross
mount. This reflects water, gravel and snow away from the bottom of the
motor.
I also use large 6 inch Dayton blowers with a 6 inch carb type air filters
that is use on the motor and controller chassis which is cover with a slip
over plastic cover.
All my other components are install inside under a fold down dash unit that
is 1-foot high, 18 inches deep and 60 inches wide. The charger, safety
contactors, AC contactors, terminal strips, shunts, circuit breakers and
fuses are mounted in a totally enclose fan cool rear compartments, that have
double gasket doors.
The battery compartments are also totally enclose, filter fan cool with
double gasket doors. This compartment is insulated to about 30 R factor and
even gains in heat with the large hatch glass that acts like a passive solar
panel.
All these compartments are then cover with a hatch back type of trunk lid
that is also gasket.
I have been running this unit since 1977 to now, and run it in the rain,
through a foot of snow, below -30 degrees, above 110 degrees in the sun, in
dust storms with no problems.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 3:51 PM
Subject: Weather proofness of electric car components
> Just wondering what people's opinion/experience with the weather
> resistance of electric car components is. I was talking to someone
> (an automotive mechanic) who just did a conversion of a '98 Ranger
> with the 9" ADC, Curtiss controller, etc. And he said that he wasn't
> really happy with some of the components, not being suitable for
> getting wet and dirt filled and such. I know that I am used to being
> able to powerwash the ICE engines of my cars at the carwash without
> problems (diesel's so no ignition to get wet), and I drive through
> puddles, snowdrifts, dusty dirt roads, all the time. It seems that
> any automobile component has to be able to handle a certain amount of
> dirt and water. But on lots of EV's I see naked terminals and
> contactors and all kinds of stuff that wouldn't pass muster in the
> weather. Is this an issue with manufacturers of the components, or
> price (I imagine it would drive the cost up a bit), or do people only
> drive their EV's in nice sunny weather?
>
> I remember when the Reva was being developed, it had to withstand
> 100,000 km of driving on dirt roads, and be able to ford 16" deep
> water. But that was India too :)
>
> Zeke
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
But he probably bought it and didn't ask anyone else to crack one open and send
him the schematic.
By one for yourself, and feel free to look through it for yourself.
No one will fault you for being curious, or even looking through your own Zilla.
The sin would be for me to give you information the owner of the information
wouldn't want me to give.
You are asking the list to do your dirty work.
Do it yourself.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thursday, May 31, 2007 1:40 pm
Subject: Zilla controller insides
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> I'm curious about what the zillas look like on the inside, does
> anyone
> have photos they could share?
> those of you that might think that's wrong to ask try to realize
> that
> curiosity is not a sin and that's how we learn. many of us have
> opened
> things to see what it looks inside even if we never really learned
> anything from it. Otmar certainly has opened a curtis or two in his
> time.
> thanks in advance
> Dan Frederiksen
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
MIKE WILLMON wrote:
> But he probably bought it and didn't ask anyone else to crack
> one open and send him the schematic.
> By one for yourself, and feel free to look through it for yourself.
> No one will fault you for being curious, or even looking
> through your own Zilla.
> The sin would be for me to give you information the owner of
> the information wouldn't want me to give.
> You are asking the list to do your dirty work.
> Do it yourself.
I understand where you are coming from, but if Otmar were going to lose
sleep over the possibility of others (even others interested in building
their own controller) seeing what's inside a 'Zilla, then he wouldn't
have sold any. ;^>
There is nothing to prevent anyone from posting pictures of their
'Zilla's insides on the web somewhere for all to see other than the
caution in the 'Zilla warranty that dissassembly of the controller will
void the warranty.
This fellow didn't actually ask that anyone open their controller and
take pictures for him, but only if someone would be willing to share
pictures that they might already have.
It is fair enough for you to point out that you think it would be
inappropriate to share pictures of the insides of your Zilla, but let's
leave it at that.
Anyone who was seriously considering going into competition with Otmar
wouldn't ask to see someone else's pictures of a Zilla's guts, they
would quietly buy a unit of their own to tear down and examine...
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 2007-05-31 at 16:04 -0700, Roger Stockton wrote:
> This fellow didn't actually ask that anyone open their controller and
> take pictures for him, but only if someone would be willing to share
> pictures that they might already have.
>
> It is fair enough for you to point out that you think it would be
> inappropriate to share pictures of the insides of your Zilla, but let's
> leave it at that.
>
> Anyone who was seriously considering going into competition with Otmar
> wouldn't ask to see someone else's pictures of a Zilla's guts, they
> would quietly buy a unit of their own to tear down and examine...
>
I think Mike's sentiment on the issue may have been from when this
started back in November, when Dan asked Otmar for details on the parts
used in the Zilla. Otmar declined to give specifics, so Dan used the
accuse-Otmar-of-being-greedy approach. If it was a card played in hopes
of getting more information, it didn't work out:
http://www.cafeelectric.com/blog/?p=8#comments
http://www.cafeelectric.com/blog/?p=5
"So much for idealism" ...?
--
Christopher Robison
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Over 12 years of driving electrics, I really never worry much about this.
The Solectria Force I have now has instructions in the manual never to take
it through a car wash but I have had mine (and my mother's) through several
and never had a problem. On the other hand, my first electric conversion
was an S-10 Blazer and it came with a Curtis controller which blew out in
the first couple of years. Otmar thought it might be moisture getting in
around the seal but we didn't really see any evidence of water inside.
I wouldn't steam clean under the hood like I did with my old gas car but I
think all the rest is not an issue.
- Will
Aptos, CA 95003
(831) 688-8669
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Zeke Yewdall
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 2:52 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Weather proofness of electric car components
Just wondering what people's opinion/experience with the weather
resistance of electric car components is. I was talking to someone
(an automotive mechanic) who just did a conversion of a '98 Ranger
with the 9" ADC, Curtiss controller, etc. And he said that he wasn't
really happy with some of the components, not being suitable for
getting wet and dirt filled and such. I know that I am used to being
able to powerwash the ICE engines of my cars at the carwash without
problems (diesel's so no ignition to get wet), and I drive through
puddles, snowdrifts, dusty dirt roads, all the time. It seems that
any automobile component has to be able to handle a certain amount of
dirt and water. But on lots of EV's I see naked terminals and
contactors and all kinds of stuff that wouldn't pass muster in the
weather. Is this an issue with manufacturers of the components, or
price (I imagine it would drive the cost up a bit), or do people only
drive their EV's in nice sunny weather?
I remember when the Reva was being developed, it had to withstand
100,000 km of driving on dirt roads, and be able to ford 16" deep
water. But that was India too :)
Zeke
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--- End Message ---
