EV Digest 6829
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Zilla controller insides
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Zilla controller insides
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: electric motorcycle project
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Zilla controller insides
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Killacycle: 5.88 @ 243 mph?
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Zilla controller insides
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Zilla controller insides
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Interesting motorcycle, might make a good EV
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) LED lights energy savings?
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: electric motorcycle project
by "John O'Connor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: LED lights energy savings?
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Welding aluminum, was electric motorcycle project
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Weather proofness of electric car components
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: electric motorcycle project
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Zilla controller insides
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: EV bumper sticker
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Zilla controller insides
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: electric motorcycle project
by dale henderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: LED lights energy savings?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Charging batteries in parallel (Rescue GEM)
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Correction Re: LED lights energy savings?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: electric motorcycle project
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Weather proofness of electric car components
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Zivan charger overvoltage?
by "Al" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: electric motorcycle project
by "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: LED lights energy savings?
by "Mark Eidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: electric motorcycle project
by dale henderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Welding aluminum, was electric motorcycle project
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Solectria S-10 for sale in San Francisco (Craigslist)
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Christopher Robison wrote:
> I think Mike's sentiment on the issue may have been from when
> this started back in November, when Dan asked Otmar for details
> on the parts used in the Zilla. Otmar declined to give
> specifics, so Dan used the accuse-Otmar-of-being-greedy
> approach.
Well, that would certainly explain the sentiment ;^>
Those of us who don't happen to frequent Otmar's blog would certainly
have benefitted if this background had been pointed out up front to
place Mike's response in context.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My sentiment on the issue actually comes from when Dan solicited me directly
off-list to open my Zilla and send him a picture pining that I was his last
hope to to come up with a way to make controllers cheap enough for all the
world to own one. While thats a noble endeavour in itself, actively soliciting
to rip off someone's design is not something I will support. He stated he
doesn't want to copy it, and well thats a good thing if he ever wants to run a
legitimate business, but if he wants the ideas he should at the very least
support the guy who made them and buy one, and not go calling him names and
accusing him of being greedy. I for one find the cost of the controller worth
the value in the product. I could understand if Otmar knocked off thousands a
month that the price for quantity production shouldn't be near what he's
asking. But he makes them in batches you can count on two hands and a foot.
Doing it that way can't be cheap and so I do not believe Ot is gett
ing rich off the venture. I for one would like to be able to get another Zilla
in the not so distant future. If the market starts getting flooded with cheap
knock-offs he may fold up and never produce another. The picture Dan is
looking for will show up on the internet some day, but it will not have been
from my camera.
----- Original Message -----
From: Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thursday, May 31, 2007 3:19 pm
Subject: RE: Zilla controller insides
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> On Thu, 2007-05-31 at 16:04 -0700, Roger Stockton wrote:
> > This fellow didn't actually ask that anyone open their controller
> and> take pictures for him, but only if someone would be willing to
> share> pictures that they might already have.
> >
> > It is fair enough for you to point out that you think it would be
> > inappropriate to share pictures of the insides of your Zilla, but
> let's> leave it at that.
> >
> > Anyone who was seriously considering going into competition with
> Otmar> wouldn't ask to see someone else's pictures of a Zilla's
> guts, they
> > would quietly buy a unit of their own to tear down and examine...
> >
>
> I think Mike's sentiment on the issue may have been from when this
> started back in November, when Dan asked Otmar for details on the
> partsused in the Zilla. Otmar declined to give specifics, so Dan
> used the
> accuse-Otmar-of-being-greedy approach. If it was a card played in
> hopesof getting more information, it didn't work out:
>
> http://www.cafeelectric.com/blog/?p=8#comments
> http://www.cafeelectric.com/blog/?p=5
>
> "So much for idealism" ...?
>
>
> --
> Christopher Robison
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I'm planning on using six 55Ah batteries and would like to get a 40 mile
> range and 65MPH out of it.
You might want to rethink your plans. Getting 40 miles on a E-motorcycle
is tought with lead-acid batteries.
Aerodynamic drag is the problem, motorcycles have LOUSY drag figures. They
typically require at least 1/2 as much power as a car does to maintain
highway speeds and have far less room to store batteries.
20 miles is a more realistic range figure, and that assumes you are NOT
going 65 mph. Possibly 30 miles if you keep your speed down to ~35 mph.
You could possibly do 40 miles, if you built a streamliner, or if you went
with NiMH or LiPol batteries.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter Gabrielsson was nice enough to send me this photo looking into a
curtis controller. I for one find it interesting and inspiring and would
love to see more.
Those of you who think it's a dastardly deed he has done should probably
avert your eyes
http://www.df-cad.dk/web/ev/Curtis.jpg
I am new to EVs and was hoping to be able to help promote the EV in
various ways and I'm quite frankly amazed that noone have looked inside
one of the key components and put it on a website. Well, other than
Otmar reverse engineering a curtis and posting articles on it of course :)
Isn't that how he started his controller building career... how's that
for background information Roger : )
There is nothing wrong with what I ask of course. We all get inspired
and learn from other products and we are the better for it.
Dan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If this hasn't already been posted; how did we miss this article?
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/mcn/2007/May/may15-20/may2307killacyclesettobefastestbikeever/?&R=EPI-91468
What motor setup are you planning on using Bill?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.df-cad.dk/web/ev/Curtis.jpg
I bet that case does a good job of holding the heat in?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lest you all forget that Otmar himself showed off the insides of the
Zilla to the world on that Sucking Amps program on the Discovery
channel. Don't worry though, he's got some hot new product on the
way. Should be extremely interesting and exciting to say the least.
One man out of six billion people with skill, talent, and capability
to that extent. Quite humbling actually. Pure genius.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I stumbled across this motorcycle while out shopping recently and I think
this basic design would make a good EV.
More aerodynamic than an ordinary motorcycle and much easier to build/ride
than a streamliner.
The front suspension might be a problem though. This one looks cool but
would be difficult to build and there are only a few motorcycles that I'm
aware of that were ever built, in any quantity, with this type of swingarm
front suspension.
http://www.vanderwal.us/Okinawa/motorcycle.html
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Do you actually save enough energy to noticeably increase your range
by switching the lighting on your vehicle to LED?
Are there LED's bright enough to use for headlights?
Tehben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You can get the exact same book published without the monster garage
cover and forward. I forget what the title is but in my barnes and
noble they were almost side by side
On May 31, 2007, at 1:15 PM, Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G
wrote:
Chris is dead on. I would recommend reading the Monster Garage Book,
"How to weld damn near anything." I know people on here are all
pissed
off on monster garage but look past that and read this book. It is
very
informative on the difference between processes and how to do proper
setups before welding. It will also help you understand how each weld
is done and what steps you need to do before you even strike the arc.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Christopher Robison
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 9:45
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: electric motorcycle project
On Thu, 2007-05-31 at 07:44 -0500, Marty Hewes wrote:
OK, I know it's a bit off topic, but I do need to make battery racks
and add motor and trans mounts to my frame, can't think of using any
steel beyond
1/4 inch, probably more like 1/8". I'd like to be able to do
aluminum
and maybe stainless. I've got a harbor freight nearby.
I'm pretty good with a torch on steel, but that throws a lot of extra
heat.
I don't mind spending $250 to $300 for a moderate power welder. What
is the difference in cost of consumables between using a shielding
gas
and flux wire? Is there a flux coated rod you can use with a TIG
torch for non-critical welds, or does it always need to use gas?
I'm looking at:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?
itemnumber=91811
or
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?
itemnumber=93793
Bear in mind that a DC-only TIG machine will *not* do aluminum. You
need
the repeated swap between straight and reverse polarity (squarewave is
best, sinewave will work) to do aluminum with TIG, the former for
penetration, and the latter for oxide removal.
Can all MIG units do aluminum?
Can flux wire only do aluminum?
None of the under $300 MIG units mention DC, do they all do it?
Is it
unnecessary?
As far as I know, all the affordable MIG units are DC only.
Polarity is
typically switched by a jumper or switch inside the case.
Is MIG easier than TIG, or just faster but less precise?
"Yes." MIG is vastly easier than TIG. It took me about 10 minutes to
make an effective weld with MIG. It took me about 8 months of
occasional practice before I was confident with my TIG welds (and they
were still ugly). TIG is extremely precise, but only when you've
gotten
good at it. :-) I'm still not there yet, but every time I weld I
pick
up a little insight into a better technique.
Flux wire, MIG, TIG or Arc? Pros and cons please?
Flux-core is great for outdoor welding, or where there is a breeze
that
would blow the shield gas away. MIG gives a better, cleaner weld if
you
can do it in your garage with the fan off. Both of these are about as
easy to do, but with flux-core you'll have more slag and spatter to
clean off afterward.
TIG takes a lot of effort to learn but can produce beautiful welds
(and
since you don't necessarily have to feed the filler metal, you can
"edit" welds more easily with TIG, I've found). You'll need two
arms and
a foot on the pedal for it though, which makes TIG more of a sit-down,
workbench process than the others. Look on YouTube and you'll find at
least one video I've seen of a guy crawling around under a car with
both
feet squeezing a TIG pedal. This is pretty cool, but I think it would
take a lot of practice. (Torch-mounted amp controls are available, but
are clumsy and difficult to use, the prevailing opinion seems to be).
Some people can do stick welding well, but I am terrible at it. I can
make a bead on a flat piece of metal, but I am not good at actually
sticking two pieces of metal together with it.
--
Christopher Robison
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Search the archives. Lighting doesn't consume enough to matter one way
or another.
LEDs are not bright enough to replace headlights in general, there's
supposed to be one luxury car with some new emitters that can though. I
ran the equations and it would take a completely impractical number of
devices even with the newer high-power emitters I could find.
LEDs are not strong competitors with halogen headlights for efficiency.
This goes against common perception, but it's true. They can more or
less equal halogens, maybe beat them by a 10%-20% sort of margin under
the best (most expensive and large) conditions. They can't save much to
speak of.
Danny
Tehben Dean wrote:
Do you actually save enough energy to noticeably increase your range
by switching the lighting on your vehicle to LED?
Are there LED's bright enough to use for headlights?
Tehben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One thing about aluminum welding which is sometimes non-intuitive is
that it takes 2 to 3 times the amps to weld as steel.
It may take less heat to melt aluminum but the resistance is low.
The other thing is the thermal expansion and the thermal conduction can
cause problems. Thick sections need to be heated with a gas torch and
slowed cooling or they crack and warp.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, the other day I had to take my S-10 conversion through rain. Well,
not rain, not even close to what one considers to be 'rain' - more like
somebody opened Hoover dam and spilled it all over our county. It was bad,
visibility a few feet, the wipers unable to get rid of the all the water
pouring from above. And I thought about my ADC motor hovering a few inches
above the lake that used to be a road. And I started to think about the
conductivity of water, waited for the moment my little EV would give up
leaving me stranded in some of the worst water nightmares I ever
encountered (.. and I went through quiet a few tropical storms and
hurricanes). But guess what - nothing happened. The EV pulled me out of
the mess and everything turned out to be just fine.
I guess our EVs are not that fragile after all :)
Michaela
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think TIG is easiest. :-)
TIG is like gas, but faster, you create a puddle and add filler. Slower,
Precise, You have time to think, manipulate, warm, cool, all in an inert
gas atmosphere.
I have welded onto a corner, to repair a mold and welded 1/4 thick
4" square tubing to make the table for the mold to sit on with the same
unit. (but above 150A, a water cooled torch is a necessity) I have even
welded dissimilar metals, quiet by accident copper to steel.
MIG is more like stick, strike and go and the pace is set, Look at the
weld when you are done. The only way to go for fabrication and
sheetmetal(bodywork).
I think TIG is a great all-around welder
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan Stotts wrote:
:Lest you all forget that Otmar himself showed off the insides of the
:Zilla to the world on that Sucking Amps program on the Discovery
:channel.
that show was not shown in europe I'm afraid. did you happen to record it?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have witnessed this here in Fresno. Absolutely Comical. I have wanted
to take a picture. Every morning the tankers with all the different
logos on them line up at the depot.
i never thought about the ubiquity of electrons. I guess this is one
more reason the hydrogen advocates exist.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I dis-assembled a 1k Zilla when I did an install on a
Sparrow (Myers Motors NMG). I think all of the new
NMG vehicles currently use a Zilla. I took several
pictures and documented the parts used. I've designed
motor controls for Caterpiller, GE, Baldor and Ametek
and know the costs involved in creating these
controls.
I came to the conclusion that the power electronic
parts used in the Zilla are high cost and best on the
market but nowhere close to the cost of a Zilla
control. The mechanical parts and machining involved
are pretty expensive however. Selling a Zilla in the
quantities that Otmar does is not a very profitable
business. I think the margins he makes on sales is
probably more of an EV enthusiast than a businessman
looking for big profits. Otmar is smart enough to
realize that if quantities are large enough he could
outsource his design himself to China, but I don't
think this is possible at this time. The bottom line
is Otmar sells his controls to promote the EV and is
not making big bucks. I applaud his efforts and think
his design is pure genius. You will not find another
control on the market with the reliability and
performance that his control offers. Keep up the good
work Otmar!!
Rod
--- Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm curious about what the zillas look like on the
> inside, does anyone
> have photos they could share?
> those of you that might think that's wrong to ask
> try to realize that
> curiosity is not a sin and that's how we learn. many
> of us have opened
> things to see what it looks inside even if we never
> really learned
> anything from it. Otmar certainly has opened a
> curtis or two in his time.
>
> thanks in advance
> Dan Frederiksen
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
40 mile range is easy i do it all the time on my first
crappy ebike and I'm working on 40-60 mile range on my
next bike [both lead sleds]. however you will not get
that kind of range out of those 55ahs
now if your bike [and you] are light enough and you
have good trany and have SOME aerodynamics you MIGHT
get 65mph out of a single pmg132 but i doubt it, if
you have two pmg132s and about 400 lbs of lead [350
wet, 450 sealed] you can get 40 mile range at 65mph
easy
--- Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I'm planning on using six 55Ah batteries and would
> like to get a 40 mile
> > range and 65MPH out of it.
>
> You might want to rethink your plans. Getting 40
> miles on a E-motorcycle
> is tought with lead-acid batteries.
> Aerodynamic drag is the problem, motorcycles have
> LOUSY drag figures. They
> typically require at least 1/2 as much power as a
> car does to maintain
> highway speeds and have far less room to store
> batteries.
>
> 20 miles is a more realistic range figure, and that
> assumes you are NOT
> going 65 mph. Possibly 30 miles if you keep your
> speed down to ~35 mph.
>
> You could possibly do 40 miles, if you built a
> streamliner, or if you went
> with NiMH or LiPol batteries.
>
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4
> lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically
> authorizing me to do whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you
> agree that your long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
>
Albuquerque, NM
http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1000
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1179
http://geocities.com/solarcookingman
____________________________________________________________________________________
Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car
Finder tool.
http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Do you actually save enough energy to noticeably increase your range
> by switching the lighting on your vehicle to LED?
Nope. The lights on an EV have an almost unmeasureable effect on range to
begin with. So, assuming LEDs cut you lighting energy requirements in 1/2,
you get 1/2 of almost nothing more range.
I.e. it might extend your MAXIMUM range by 200-300 yards. However, if you
are driving to maximum range very often you'll kill your batteries quick.
> Are there LED's bright enough to use for headlights?
Yes, if you use a bunch of them.
I have a dive light that uses paired high power LEDs with a water cooled
heat sink. It draws about 25 watts and produces about 1/2 the light output
(lumens) of a 35 watt HID.
I'd guess it would take four of these to produce the same light as two
ordinary headlights. Since ordinary headlights draw approx 120 watts,
that means you'd save about 20 watts.
It takes about 10,000 to 15,000 watts to move a typical EV at 55 mph.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You did it right, as a battery charges the electrolyte
level will rise so you only fill discharged batteries
with enough water to cover the plates, then fill them
once they're as charged as they are going to get.
Typically they recommend 1/8" below the "fill line"
plastic neck that goes down in to the cells. I use a
cheapy harbor freight battery filler. It fills them to
right about the fill neck, but there's a good 1/4" of
space above this so I've never had an issue.
When the batteries are very discharged they might not
take much power at first, just let them take. It might
take overnight to a full day for them to start
accepting power. A trick used by EVers is to put a
tail light bulb in series with a battery and let it
sit. The bulb creates a parasitic load which helps
power flow through the battery, as the battery starts
taking power the bulb will light up some then you can
charge it without the bulb.
Again, I honestly would not have much hope of getting
more than a couple blocks worth of range out of that
pack given my experience reviving dead GEM's. Charge
each battery a few times with your 12 volt battery
charger and see if the car comes alive. If you can get
the pack to hold around 65 volts the on board charger
should come on when you plug it in, it might be best
to let it run it's motions two or three times (unplug
and replug after it gives the green light) and see how
it does.
Hope that helps
Rick
> > From: "Donald \(EV List\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Subject: Re: Charging batteries in parallel (Rescue
> GEM)
> Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 16:11:23 -0400
>
> I have covered the plates and remember reading that
> I shouldn't fill the cells if the battery is
> discharged. However, I also remember from the
> Battery FAQ that "The sulfate crystals are more
> soluble in water than in electrolyte." Once the
> battery is 90 - 95% charged should I add water
> to within 1/4 inch of the filler tube to help
> further break down the sulfate?
>
> Thanks
> Donald
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ricky Suiter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 04:11
> Subject: Re: Charging batteries in parallel (Rescue
> GEM)
>
>
> > First, if you haven't make sure there is enough
> water
> > in the batteries to cover the plates then hit them
> > individually with your charger. Letting them
> simmer at
> > ~15.5 volts each for a while might regain some
> > capacity, but likely it won't be much. After a
> while
> > they will just be burning off water.
____________________________________________________________________________________
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Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Darn, there I go posting without checking my facts again.
The LED light I have is suppose to draw 10 watts and prduces the same
light as a 25watt halogen.
It's rated to draw 10 watts produces 170 lumens. However, I believe that's
air cooled, underwater where the heatsink stays cooler it produces 25%
more light, but I can't find anything that says how much power it draws,
however, the batteries only last less tha 1/2 as long.
The HID light draws about the same power and produces twice as much light
>
>> Do you actually save enough energy to noticeably increase your range
>> by switching the lighting on your vehicle to LED?
>
> Nope. The lights on an EV have an almost unmeasureable effect on range to
> begin with. So, assuming LEDs cut you lighting energy requirements in 1/2,
> you get 1/2 of almost nothing more range.
> I.e. it might extend your MAXIMUM range by 200-300 yards. However, if you
> are driving to maximum range very often you'll kill your batteries quick.
>
>> Are there LED's bright enough to use for headlights?
> Yes, if you use a bunch of them.
> I have a dive light that uses paired high power LEDs with a water cooled
> heat sink. It draws about 25 watts and produces about 1/2 the light output
> (lumens) of a 35 watt HID.
>
> I'd guess it would take four of these to produce the same light as two
> ordinary headlights. Since ordinary headlights draw approx 120 watts,
> that means you'd save about 20 watts.
>
> It takes about 10,000 to 15,000 watts to move a typical EV at 55 mph.
>
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's tremendous. Is your EM in the EVAlbum or on some other web site?
I'd like to have a look :-) What was easy for you has been very difficult
for others. Were you a motorcycle guy before you built your EM? If so how
would you compare your EM to the other bikes you have or have had in the
past? I have followed quite a few people that have built electric
motorcycles, and of course built one myself, and you are the first that I
have seen with 40 miles range on lead acid batteries, so I would love to see
how you did it.
damon
From: dale henderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: electric motorcycle project
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 19:54:25 -0700 (PDT)
40 mile range is easy i do it all the time on my first
crappy ebike and I'm working on 40-60 mile range on my
next bike [both lead sleds]. however you will not get
that kind of range out of those 55ahs
now if your bike [and you] are light enough and you
have good trany and have SOME aerodynamics you MIGHT
get 65mph out of a single pmg132 but i doubt it, if
you have two pmg132s and about 400 lbs of lead [350
wet, 450 sealed] you can get 40 mile range at 65mph
easy
--- Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I'm planning on using six 55Ah batteries and would
> like to get a 40 mile
> > range and 65MPH out of it.
>
> You might want to rethink your plans. Getting 40
> miles on a E-motorcycle
> is tought with lead-acid batteries.
> Aerodynamic drag is the problem, motorcycles have
> LOUSY drag figures. They
> typically require at least 1/2 as much power as a
> car does to maintain
> highway speeds and have far less room to store
> batteries.
>
> 20 miles is a more realistic range figure, and that
> assumes you are NOT
> going 65 mph. Possibly 30 miles if you keep your
> speed down to ~35 mph.
>
> You could possibly do 40 miles, if you built a
> streamliner, or if you went
> with NiMH or LiPol batteries.
>
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4
> lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically
> authorizing me to do whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you
> agree that your long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
>
Albuquerque, NM
http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1000
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1179
http://geocities.com/solarcookingman
____________________________________________________________________________________
Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car
Finder tool.
http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/
_________________________________________________________________
Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - only on MSN
http://liveearth.msn.com?source=msntaglineliveearthhm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Roland,
What did you use to insulate your battery boxes? Where can they be procured?
JJ
> The battery compartments are also totally enclose, filter fan cool with
> double gasket doors. This compartment is insulated to about 30 R factor
> and even gains in heat with the large hatch glass that acts like a
> passive solar panel.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ben, the charger is programmed for the T-125.
Do not have the temp probe.
I only checked 1 batt, would imagine they would all be about the same.
I checked voltage during the blinking red mode, which is constant voltage I
think.
Batts have maybe 50 cycles on them and are well watered.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: Zivan charger overvoltage?
Al,
I think that is too high.
my finishing voltage is somewhere around 7.9 Volts per T-125 in yellow
mode
(set at the Zivan representative for the Trojan T-125 battery pack.).
Did you have yours programmed for T-125's.
Do you have the temperature probe which will raise finishing voltage in
cold weather and lower finishing voltage in warm weather?
Were more than one battery up at 8.18 Volts, or just the one battery?
Are your batteries over 2 years old,
or out of water?
Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff, I think you've got a point. TIG seems more like gas. If you've got
more experience with gas, then TIG is maybe more intuitive? Having never
done anything but gas, I can't even imagine welding with a wire electrode
feeding at a constant rate. I'm too used to being able to vary speed, heat
and filler feed rate as I go.
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: electric motorcycle project
I think TIG is easiest. :-)
TIG is like gas, but faster, you create a puddle and add filler. Slower,
Precise, You have time to think, manipulate, warm, cool, all in an inert
gas atmosphere.
I have welded onto a corner, to repair a mold and welded 1/4 thick
4" square tubing to make the table for the mold to sit on with the same
unit. (but above 150A, a water cooled torch is a necessity) I have even
welded dissimilar metals, quiet by accident copper to steel.
MIG is more like stick, strike and go and the pace is set, Look at the
weld when you are done. The only way to go for fabrication and
sheetmetal(bodywork).
I think TIG is a great all-around welder
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
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* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
* This post contains a forbidden message format *
* (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
* Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT *
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* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting *
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
the info on my bikes is at the bottom of all my
emails. the 40 miles is for under 30 mph and under
average.
you might want to also direct your questions to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] they tend to
be more focus on motorcycles issues.
for the record using a KILL-A-WATT [from the wall] i'm
averaging 160 wpm at 30 mph average [minus stop times]
--- damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> That's tremendous. Is your EM in the EVAlbum or on
> some other web site?
> I'd like to have a look :-) What was easy for you
> has been very difficult
> for others. Were you a motorcycle guy before you
> built your EM? If so how
> would you compare your EM to the other bikes you
> have or have had in the
> past? I have followed quite a few people that have
> built electric
> motorcycles, and of course built one myself, and you
> are the first that I
> have seen with 40 miles range on lead acid
> batteries, so I would love to see
> how you did it.
>
> damon
>
>
> >From: dale henderson
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> >To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> >Subject: Re: electric motorcycle project
> >Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 19:54:25 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >40 mile range is easy i do it all the time on my
> first
> >crappy ebike and I'm working on 40-60 mile range on
> my
> >next bike [both lead sleds]. however you will not
> get
> >that kind of range out of those 55ahs
> >
> >now if your bike [and you] are light enough and you
> >have good trany and have SOME aerodynamics you
> MIGHT
> >get 65mph out of a single pmg132 but i doubt it, if
> >you have two pmg132s and about 400 lbs of lead [350
> >wet, 450 sealed] you can get 40 mile range at 65mph
> >easy
> >
> >--- Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > > I'm planning on using six 55Ah batteries and
> would
> > > like to get a 40 mile
> > > > range and 65MPH out of it.
> > >
> > > You might want to rethink your plans. Getting
> 40
> > > miles on a E-motorcycle
> > > is tought with lead-acid batteries.
> > > Aerodynamic drag is the problem, motorcycles
> have
> > > LOUSY drag figures. They
> > > typically require at least 1/2 as much power as
> a
> > > car does to maintain
> > > highway speeds and have far less room to store
> > > batteries.
> > >
> > > 20 miles is a more realistic range figure, and
> that
> > > assumes you are NOT
> > > going 65 mph. Possibly 30 miles if you keep
> your
> > > speed down to ~35 mph.
> > >
> > > You could possibly do 40 miles, if you built a
> > > streamliner, or if you went
> > > with NiMH or LiPol batteries.
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has >
> 4
> > > lines of legalistic
> > > junk at the end; then you are specifically
> > > authorizing me to do whatever I
> > > wish with the message. By posting the message
> you
> > > agree that your long
> > > legalistic signature is void.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >Albuquerque, NM
> >http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
> >http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1000
> >http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1179
> >http://geocities.com/solarcookingman
> >
> >
> >
>
>____________________________________________________________________________________
> >Choose the right car based on your needs. Check
> out Yahoo! Autos new Car
> >Finder tool.
> >http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/
> >
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this
> summer - only on MSN
>
http://liveearth.msn.com?source=msntaglineliveearthhm
>
>
Albuquerque, NM
http://geocities.com/hendersonmotorcycles/blog.html
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1000
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/1179
http://geocities.com/solarcookingman
____________________________________________________________________________________
Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast
with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, May 31, 2007 9:10 pm, Jeff Shanab wrote:
> One thing about aluminum welding which is sometimes non-intuitive is
> that it takes 2 to 3 times the amps to weld as steel.
> It may take less heat to melt aluminum but the resistance is low.
Aluminum does require more current to weld than the equivalent thickness
of steel, but I don't think the reason is correct. Aluminum requires a
lower temperature to melt, but I think it does in fact require more heat
input to bring any part of it to that temperature. This is because of
aluminum's higher thermal conductivity. Heat one end of a 2 foot long
aluminum rod and the other end quickly heats up too. Weld on a steel rod
of similar dimension, and the other end is still cool to the touch, for a
while. In the case of the aluminum rod, this is heat energy being pulled
away from where you want it.
Aluminum may have a lower electrical resistance than steel, but I don't
think this plays a part. The current flowing through the metal shouldn't
be enough to heat it noticeably -- it's the arc (the air turned to plasma)
and its conductive interface with the workpiece that produces the
necessary heat.
--
Christopher Robison
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not by me, found it on Craigslist, see text below.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/car/338279429.html
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
-------------------------------------------------------------------
1996 Solectria S-10 EV electric pickup truck (Chevrolet) - $15000
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 2007-05-25, 9:26PM PDT
This is an all-electric truck, running off of twenty-four 12-volt batteries,
rechargeable by plugging in to any household-type outlet.
Solectria was a company in Wilmington, Massachusetts in the late nineties
that converted gasoline-powered cars to electricity, buying General Motors
cars fresh off the assembly line, removing their engines, and then replacing
them with electrics (AC motors, lead-acid batteries, and controllers).
This truck has an automatic transmission, air conditioning, defrost & heat,
power steering, power brakes, and regenerative braking --when it decelerates
the electric motors work in reverse as generators to feed juice back in to
the battery pack. Range is 30-50 miles, depending on driving conditions, and
the onboard charger accepts either 110 volts or 220v. Its 12-volt batteries
are sealed and require no electrolyte servicing.
Everything works, and it has served reliably as my daily commute vehicle
from Bernal Heights in San Francisco to the airport. It seems particulalry
well-suited for that type of mission (predictable range with anticipated
charging opportunities). I'm asking $15k.
One of its great features is that the car bears the coveted white "Clean Air
Access - HOV" ("High Occupancy Vehicle") stickers, meaning, you can legally
drive in the carpool lanes of California freeways and toll bridges, with
only the single driver on board.
More information and detailed photos on request.
--- End Message ---
