EV Digest 6830
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Minimum flywheel thickness
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Welding aluminum, was electric motorcycle project
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Weather proofness of electric car components
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Minimum flywheel thickness
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Cutting Edge WAS Re: electric motorcycle project
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Almost !#it myself when I got this email!!!
by "Andrew Kane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: EV bumper sticker
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Advanced DC motor
by "Alan Brinkman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: EV bumper sticker
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Almost !#it myself when I got this email!!!
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Interesting motorcycle, might make a good EV
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Zilla controller insides
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: electric motorcycle project
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: electric motorcycle project
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: electric motorcycle project
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Zilla controller insides (now with pictures)
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Zilla controller insides (now with pictures)
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Correction Re: LED lights energy savings?
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Charging batteries in parallel (Rescue GEM)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) electravan for sale... urgent
by "Michael Wendell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) electravan for sale... one more thing
by "Michael Wendell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: LED lights energy savings?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, May 31, 2007 4:30 pm, Roland Wiench wrote:
> Hello Christopher,
>
> A racing type flywheel may weigh as less than 12 lbs.
>
Problem is, I don't specifically need a flywheel that's light. (That would
be nice to have, but not necessary). What I need is a flywheel that's
physically thin enough to fit with the adapter plate we received, which
seems to have been made without this in mind. I could buy a racing
flywheel and hope it happens to be thin enough, but thickness is not a
dimension that's quoted in specs or advertisements.
> To give you a ideal of what my flywheel is, which is normally for a 350
> cu.in., the center flange is only 1/2 inch thick and the rest of the
> flywheel wheel is 3/4 inch thick.
Does this mean that the flywheel only really needs to be as thick as its
thinnest part -- in this case, 1/2 inch -- and the rest is just there for
weight? In this case, would it be safe to turn this flywheel down to a
1/2 inch thickness?
If that's true, then I should have no trouble making ours 3/8" thick at
the edge, since it's about that thick about halfway between the edge and
the center.
> To move the flywheel back another 1/8 inch, it was easier to remove the
> material off the back of the motor coupler. I had to make sure that I
> leave
> a little ridge on the back of the motor coupler, which will butt against
> the
> motor bearing race which also turns with the shaft, but will not scrape on
> the motor housing.
Is it necessary for such a ridge on the hub to press against that part of
the bearing? I've never seen this done in other conversions with which
I've been involved. Our hub came with one and I was considering removing
it, but if it helps for it to actually contact the bearing race (helping
to distribute thrust load from the clutch?), then I'll just turn it down
enough to put the hub where it needs to be on the shaft.
--
Christopher Robison
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Electrical resistance and thermal conduction in metals are kinda
related. :-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The battery boxes are 43 wide by 52 inches lone by 12 inches high. There is
30 batteries in this box which are on and ahead of the rear axle inside a 72
inch pickup box. There is 5 inches of gutter space all around this box,
which is insulated with two sheets of Dow Corning blue foam which has a
density of 25 psi.
The pickup bed is first insulated with this foam by gluing with foam glue to
all the expose sheet metal. Than a layer of foam back marine carpet is glue
covering all this foam.
The fiberglass battery box, also has a layer of 2 inch blue foam glue on to
it and also is cover with marine carpet. There is a 1 to 2 inch dead air
space between the pickup box and battery box.
The foam is about 5 R-factor per inch. The foam carpet is 2 R-factor and a
dead air space is 3 R-factor per inch. So this makes about 33 R-factor.
The foam you can get at Home Depot, plus the foam glue that you spread on
with a notch trowel.
Below the battery box, is two layers of 1 inch blue foam, one on the metal
bed and one on the battery box, plus cover with the marine carpet. The
carpet covering the foam surface, makes It easily to slide the battery box
out and in.
The coldest the batteries ever got was down to 65 degrees F. after setting
out side for 2 hours at about -30 degrees. This vehicle sets inside a
heated 80 to 140 R-Factor garage, which the temperature stays at 70 degrees.
About a hour before I leave, the garage temperature is raised to 75 degrees
and the battery box fans bring in the warm air to raise the temperature
another 5 degrees.
When charging these batteries, the covers always remain close, the fan
brings in the garage air though a air filter, is pull through the battery
box and is exhaust with a total enclose acid resistance exhaust fan and
exist out the bottom of the EV. If the garage doors are close, than a
rubber exhaust hose is connect to this exhaust port and to a outlet port on
the garage door.
You can get this exhaust hoses and outlet ports from some auto parts store.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 9:40 PM
Subject: Re: Weather proofness of electric car components
> Hi Roland,
> What did you use to insulate your battery boxes? Where can they be
> procured?
> JJ
>
> > The battery compartments are also totally enclose, filter fan cool with
> > double gasket doors. This compartment is insulated to about 30 R factor
> > and even gains in heat with the large hatch glass that acts like a
> > passive solar panel.
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 10:42 PM
Subject: Re: Minimum flywheel thickness
> On Thu, May 31, 2007 4:30 pm, Roland Wiench wrote:
> > Hello Christopher,
> >
> > A racing type flywheel may weigh as less than 12 lbs.
> >
>
> Problem is, I don't specifically need a flywheel that's light. (That would
> be nice to have, but not necessary). What I need is a flywheel that's
> physically thin enough to fit with the adapter plate we received, which
> seems to have been made without this in mind. I could buy a racing
> flywheel and hope it happens to be thin enough, but thickness is not a
> dimension that's quoted in specs or advertisements.
>
> > To give you a ideal of what my flywheel is, which is normally for a 350
> > cu.in., the center flange is only 1/2 inch thick and the rest of the
> > flywheel wheel is 3/4 inch thick.
>
> Does this mean that the flywheel only really needs to be as thick as its
> thinnest part -- in this case, 1/2 inch -- and the rest is just there for
> weight? In this case, would it be safe to turn this flywheel down to a
> 1/2 inch thickness?
>
> If that's true, then I should have no trouble making ours 3/8" thick at
> the edge, since it's about that thick about halfway between the edge and
> the center.
>
> > To move the flywheel back another 1/8 inch, it was easier to remove the
> > material off the back of the motor coupler. I had to make sure that I
> > leave
> > a little ridge on the back of the motor coupler, which will butt against
> > the
> > motor bearing race which also turns with the shaft, but will not scrape
> > on
> > the motor housing.
>
> Is it necessary for such a ridge on the hub to press against that part of
> the bearing? I've never seen this done in other conversions with which
> I've been involved. Our hub came with one and I was considering removing
> it, but if it helps for it to actually contact the bearing race (helping
> to distribute thrust load from the clutch?), then I'll just turn it down
> enough to put the hub where it needs to be on the shaft.
>
This ridge on the back of the motor coupler was done by GE on my GE traction
motor. It butts right up to the bearing race which is larger than normal.
Make sure your bearing is the type where this part of the race rotates with
the shaft.
I had this motor coupler duplicated with this same design which is a taper
lock coupler. The center hole in this coupler is large enough for the
transmission pilot shaft to go all the way though this coupler and is
inserted into a brass pilot bushing that is install right into the motor
shaft.
This method dead centers the transmission input shaft. I had other couplers
that the transmission shaft bushing was install in the motor coupler. To be
dead center in this type of coupler, the alignment must be in with 0.001
with a centering hub and pin. Also the bell housing must be a press fit
onto the transmission with alignment pins.
Roland
>
> --
> Christopher Robison
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 1:10 PM
Subject: RE: electric motorcycle project
Snip a bit
Hi EVerybody;
If you get a chance to find metal, think bed frames. People throw them
away all the time. They are pretty good quality steel and they are
strong enough for battery boxes. You can get a good quality handheld
bandsaw from fastenal for about $125 which will make cutting that thick
of steel feel like butter.
I think metal, angle bedframes reproduce in quiet, dark places, like wire
coat hangers!Must be as sheeple throw SO many away. Can fish nice clean ones
out of the metal dumpster every trip!
Another thing I have disc- covered; the great carborundum cutting discs
avable from better hardware stores, and Home Despot and bLowes. They fit
right into yur table saw and mitre saw, turning them into instant
metalworking machinery!!Cutting the 45 and 90 degree angles for battery
boxes becomes a joy! Relatively speaking<g>! Buy- wear goggles or a welding
helmet(better) with a clear glass! That shit flies! Hot steel all OVER the
place. Ok ya all know this? But I thought I'd mention it!Oh , yeah,your
Skill saw can be a metalcutting thing too. Have Fun!
Seeya at PODC
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Chip, remember you can always email people directly if you are
concerned about off-topic-ness. The email address of the poster is
usually in the header of the email message you recieve although some
clients suppress this information by default. I use gmail for my EVDL
messages and it highlights the address of the sender but does not let
me 'reply' directly to the sender instead of the list, unfortunately
:(
On 5/31/07, Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hey Bob. Sorry I'm off topic but this is related to the trailer thing.
I'm renting an equipment trailer from a rental company to haul my
car. It's used to haul Bobcats and backhoes.
They usually rent those trailers out during the week to contractors
so they sit at the rental place over the weekend. Last year they
charged me $68.00 to rent an equipment trailer which is a good
price. But before I could use it I had to repair the ramps so I
could get my car up and I replaced one of the floor boards which was
in bad shape and one floor board was missing. For the ramps I just
bolted a 2 by 10 on top of each ramp so it would be smoother ride
going up. The trailer is a bit big for hauling a Ford Escort and it
had a pintel hitch but it worked out in the end. I'm using my Dad's
diesel Ram truck so it can haul 18,000 pounds easily so the truck can
easily tow the equipment trailer.
The good news is I called them again this year and they remembered me
and said they got in brand new trailers that would hook up great with
the truck. So I'm picking that up tomorrow afternoon.
But an equipment trailer is something to consider. One for a single
Bobcat would work for your car.
U-haul has been a big problem to find trailers. They usually reserve
them for people moving with the U-Haul vans. They seem to avoid
renting them out to people who just want to move a car. That's what I
found when I was renting them a few years ago.
Chip
On May 31, 2007, at 2:56 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
> From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: May 31, 2007 10:46:05 AM EDT
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Subject: Re: Almost !#it myself when I got this email!!!
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 6:46 PM
> Subject: Almost !#it myself when I got this email!!!
>
>
>> WOW, I feel SOOO lucky, lets hope this is REAL! I got this email
>> in response to a Craig'slist add looking for VW Rabbit!!!!
>>
>> Wow! Like the song sez;" Some guys have All the Luck!"I have given
>> up on Rabbits in Corrupticut, ,just down the road from you. Oh I
>> can have all I want, but they are mulch! VW never got their Rust
>> Bucket, built in Rust-O-Matic streight from the factory, nonsence
>> under control. Yeah the 82's and on up were a lot better than the
>> famous 79's where you had to LIFT drivers door, to close, because
>> the damn door post rotted away. And the fuse panel right in the
>> rain stream, so you had quirky electrical problems. Ah! The bitter
>> memories flood back, yeah! Perpetually WET floor padding as ALL
>> VW's LEAK!Mystery seepage, under floor mats. But Other than That,
>> Rabbits make great conversions. I would STILL be driving mine had
>> I not wrecked it towing it home from Joliet, last spring. So go
>> for the Rabbit, but DO look underneith, make sure it isnt a Bondo-
>> Rosa Special!They all rot on the floors, behind the wheelwells. So
>> crawl under if you can put your fingers through, forgetaboutit!
>> Golfs are a tad newer as ar Jettas. I have a 89 Jetta I did, got
>> from Bill Glickman(Hi Bill!) HE had picked out a clean one, so no
>> rust issue. I',m having OTHER issues with my wiring, but I think
>> when cars STAND around a few years these things happen?
>
> Alota Jettas out there, are relatively light 2000lbs or so? My
> GVW is 3400lbs sez so on the door column! I'm just THERE with a 90
> volt setup. HAD 120 volts and 13 batteries in the trunk, but the
> ass was draggin' so took out 5, Magic number! Car rides decently,
> is a pleasure to drive, not QUITE the Led Sled it was at 120 volts.
> At 90 volts I loose a bit of get up and go, and range, although I
> did manage a 30 plus mile RT run to a car show down in Old Lyme,
> from Killingworth.The power steering runs off the motor as does the
> brake vacuum, a "Wrap around" belt setup works fine. In parking,
> manuevrering you slip the clutch to get the PB'sand PS. A quirk ya
> get used to.At 90 volts car has decent on the road performance and
> I can STILL run the freeway with dignity [EMAIL PROTECTED], takes a
> little longer to get there!
>
> So, to get to the point, at last: Jetti make decent conversions.
> You can keep ALL the badd-eries OUT of the cabin ,Woo Woo!!STILL
> have usable trunk space, hell! Bigger than the Bunny, car,
> anyhow.Can use ALL your seats, for normal size people;kids and
> whatnot, not 4 ,300 lb galoots like me!<g>
>
> NopwIF I can get my shit together by tomorrow, to U hall it down
> to PoDC. Like reinstall exhaust system in my van, get the damn
> trailer. Those U haul Car Transporters are hard to get!
>
> Seeya
>
> Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Hah! Marketeers can claim *anything* in their advertising. After all,
> the gasoline we buy is a generic product; it's the same for all brands,
> comes from the same refineries and is delivered in the same tanker
> trucks. They still advertise it as if every brand is somehow unique.
> Throw a bag of some mystery additive into a 10,000 gallon tank at the
> gas station, and pretend that a few molecules of it actually get to your
> gas tank.
That's not *completely* true, Lee. Gas is different, depending on the mix.
For instance, Chevron used to (still does?) use their own mixes, at least
locally. Many other brands were delivered by Sunny Oil, which explains why
fuel in Eugne OR is higher than other cities, even 50 miles away. You could
get the same fuel at the "cut raters" as at Texaco, for example.
However, Oregon (and I think Washington) is rather unique. Due to winter
inversions, state law requires "oxygenated" fuel for winter use, much as
used by CA. If I understand it correctly, this is a higher content of
alcohol.
As a consumer, you will notice a significant range difference in your
vehicle. The law states that fuel must be oxygenated in winter, but there
doesn't seem to be a cut off period in the fuel... as last "summer" standard
fuels didn't hit the market until mid July... and switched back over in
September, as required.
For the consumer, it's not hard to tell. You'll get between 10 and 20%
better economy on standard gasoline, as opposed to the "improved" oxygenated
fuels. Given that both cost nearly the same to produce, it's no wonder they
delayed switching over... when consumers would be spending more money at the
pumps.
BTW, Chevron is the fuel that many of the auto makers use (per their ads) in
their test drives... but it's not necessarily the same fuel you'll purchase
at the pumps. The mix of the fuel makes a considerable difference in your
car's performance, as well as how many MPG you get. That's one reason cars
have gotten better... their onboard computers can tell (somewhat) the
difference between crud fuel and good fuel. These same computers can detect
when a person is running regular, when the engine is designed to run on
premium... and the anti-knock system will cut your fuel economy accordingly.
(So it is likely to cost you more per mile.)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello everyone,
I picked up an Advanced DC 24 volt motor model BQ5-4001B P/N 36443 on
E-bay. I do not know if you can still look at the item since it has
ended, but the item number is 260122226177
The description reads: "The motor is 6.75" diameter x 9.375" long
excluding shaft, flange is 7.25" square with 5.8175" mount hole spacing.
7/8" od spine."
I would like to use this with a motorcycle project and a 24 to 36 volt
controller of 275 amps. I think this motor will be better than the 24
volt permanent magnet motor that I have.
Any thoughts? Advanced DC has a lot of part numbers, ratings, and
sizes. Does anyone have an idea of the horsepower, rpm, amps, etc. that
this motor is good for?
Thanks in advance,
Alan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm sure this will incur the wrath of the Stay On Topic gods soon, but
anyways....
Your numbers are way off. Oxygenated fuel generally means ethanol, up
to 10%, which has the industry term "E10", as contrasted with E85 which
is 85% ethanol, 15% gasoline. However unlike E85 the actual blend in
E10 does vary.
Ethanol has roughly 1/3rd less energy than gasoline. "Flex Fuel"
vehicles which can run gasoline or E85 show about 1/3rd less mpg on the
E85, so despite an almost hypnotic draw of $2/gal on the huge sign, the
$2 E85 vs $3 gasoline is actually the same price! However since the
percentage is only 10% for E10, that's a 3% difference. Real world
studies show an increased fuel consumption of 2.6%-2.8%.
I would not be surprised if some vehicles did react worse to E10, since
there are so many systems in so many different conditions out there.
However, they're not representative of the overall situation.
Danny
Michael Perry wrote:
For the consumer, it's not hard to tell. You'll get between 10 and 20%
better economy on standard gasoline, as opposed to the "improved" oxygenated
fuels. Given that both cost nearly the same to produce, it's no wonder they
delayed switching over... when consumers would be spending more money at the
pumps.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 6/1/07, Andrew Kane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I use gmail for my EVDL
messages and it highlights the address of the sender but does not let
me 'reply' directly to the sender instead of the list, unfortunately
:(
Hi Andrew,
Oh course it does!
As you can see on the first line of this mail, the sender's actual
email address is quoted at the top of your reply. So simply cut and
paste that into the 'to:' box (replacing the sjsu address) and the job
is done.
You can also obtain the address by using the "show original" option,
but this is much easier.
I have sent this directly to you as a demonstration, and the list as
well in case anyone else is interested.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That is an EV- with Lithium battery pack- there a you
tube article on it and beyaond tomorrow I believe
showed it.
--- Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I stumbled across this motorcycle while out shopping
> recently and I think
> this basic design would make a good EV.
>
> More aerodynamic than an ordinary motorcycle and
> much easier to build/ride
> than a streamliner.
>
> The front suspension might be a problem though.
> This one looks cool but
> would be difficult to build and there are only a few
> motorcycles that I'm
> aware of that were ever built, in any quantity, with
> this type of swingarm
> front suspension.
>
> http://www.vanderwal.us/Okinawa/motorcycle.html
>
>
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4
> lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically
> authorizing me to do whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you
> agree that your long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was wondering if anyone had taken a curtis and upgraded the
transistors for 600V capability. I have two curtis controllers and if
one is dead I was thinking of doing that myself.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dan Frederiksen
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 20:04
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Zilla controller insides
Peter Gabrielsson was nice enough to send me this photo looking into a
curtis controller. I for one find it interesting and inspiring and would
love to see more.
Those of you who think it's a dastardly deed he has done should probably
avert your eyes
http://www.df-cad.dk/web/ev/Curtis.jpg
I am new to EVs and was hoping to be able to help promote the EV in
various ways and I'm quite frankly amazed that noone have looked inside
one of the key components and put it on a website. Well, other than
Otmar reverse engineering a curtis and posting articles on it of course
:) Isn't that how he started his controller building career... how's
that for background information Roger : )
There is nothing wrong with what I ask of course. We all get inspired
and learn from other products and we are the better for it.
Dan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wouldn't worry about it anyways. The book is published by Motorbooks.
ISBN 0-7603-1808-5. There are also two others that are very good:
Learn How to Weld ISBN 1-58923-139-2
Welder's Handbook ISBN 978-1-55788-513-5
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John O'Connor
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 22:00
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: electric motorcycle project
You can get the exact same book published without the monster garage
cover and forward. I forget what the title is but in my barnes and noble
they were almost side by side On May 31, 2007, at 1:15 PM, Dewey, Jody R
ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G
wrote:
> Chris is dead on. I would recommend reading the Monster Garage Book,
> "How to weld damn near anything." I know people on here are all
> pissed
> off on monster garage but look past that and read this book. It is
> very informative on the difference between processes and how to do
> proper setups before welding. It will also help you understand how
> each weld is done and what steps you need to do before you even strike
> the arc.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of Christopher Robison
> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 9:45
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: electric motorcycle project
>
> On Thu, 2007-05-31 at 07:44 -0500, Marty Hewes wrote:
>> OK, I know it's a bit off topic, but I do need to make battery racks
>> and add motor and trans mounts to my frame, can't think of using any
>> steel beyond
>> 1/4 inch, probably more like 1/8". I'd like to be able to do
>> aluminum
>
>> and maybe stainless. I've got a harbor freight nearby.
>>
>> I'm pretty good with a torch on steel, but that throws a lot of extra
> heat.
>> I don't mind spending $250 to $300 for a moderate power welder. What
>> is the difference in cost of consumables between using a shielding
>> gas
>
>> and flux wire? Is there a flux coated rod you can use with a TIG
>> torch for non-critical welds, or does it always need to use gas?
>>
>> I'm looking at:
>> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?
>> itemnumber=91811
>> or
>> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?
>> itemnumber=93793
>>
>
> Bear in mind that a DC-only TIG machine will *not* do aluminum. You
> need the repeated swap between straight and reverse polarity
> (squarewave is best, sinewave will work) to do aluminum with TIG, the
> former for penetration, and the latter for oxide removal.
>
>> Can all MIG units do aluminum?
>>
>> Can flux wire only do aluminum?
>>
>> None of the under $300 MIG units mention DC, do they all do it?
>> Is it
>
>> unnecessary?
>
> As far as I know, all the affordable MIG units are DC only.
> Polarity is
> typically switched by a jumper or switch inside the case.
>
>
>> Is MIG easier than TIG, or just faster but less precise?
>
> "Yes." MIG is vastly easier than TIG. It took me about 10 minutes to
> make an effective weld with MIG. It took me about 8 months of
> occasional practice before I was confident with my TIG welds (and they
> were still ugly). TIG is extremely precise, but only when you've
> gotten good at it. :-) I'm still not there yet, but every time I
> weld I pick up a little insight into a better technique.
>
>
>> Flux wire, MIG, TIG or Arc? Pros and cons please?
>
> Flux-core is great for outdoor welding, or where there is a breeze
> that would blow the shield gas away. MIG gives a better, cleaner weld
> if you can do it in your garage with the fan off. Both of these are
> about as easy to do, but with flux-core you'll have more slag and
> spatter to clean off afterward.
>
> TIG takes a lot of effort to learn but can produce beautiful welds
> (and since you don't necessarily have to feed the filler metal, you
> can "edit" welds more easily with TIG, I've found). You'll need two
> arms and a foot on the pedal for it though, which makes TIG more of a
> sit-down, workbench process than the others. Look on YouTube and
> you'll find at least one video I've seen of a guy crawling around
> under a car with both feet squeezing a TIG pedal. This is pretty cool,
> but I think it would take a lot of practice. (Torch-mounted amp
> controls are available, but are clumsy and difficult to use, the
> prevailing opinion seems to be).
>
> Some people can do stick welding well, but I am terrible at it. I can
> make a bead on a flat piece of metal, but I am not good at actually
> sticking two pieces of metal together with it.
>
> --
> Christopher Robison
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://ohmbre.org <-- 1999 Isuzu Hombre + Z2K + Warp13!
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yep, I agree with John. You can weld aluminum with a MIG welder
although the welding technique is different.
I have a Miller 250 Millermatic MIG Welder and it has an outlet for a
Aluminum welding spoolgun and I have a tank of Argon for the
sheilding gas. So the welder is outfitted to weld both steel and
aluminum.
The only limitation is that you shouldn't weld Aluminum thinner then
14 gauge with this unit. If you need to weld thinner material you
should use a specialized pulsing MIG welder or go TIG.
And the most important thing in preparation is to make sure the
aluminum is really clean and you push the gun at a 10 to 15 degree
angle rather then pulling back.
So it can be done, it's just the technique, equipment and shielding
gas is different.
Chip
On May 31, 2007, at 2:56 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: May 31, 2007 10:58:29 AM EDT
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: electric motorcycle project
At 07:47 AM 5/31/2007, Mark Eidson wrote:
4x what you want to pay.......A TIG unit requires only Argon for
both steel
and aluminum and it is easy to switch back and forth. MIG units
can do
aluminum, but I have never done it or seen it done.
I've done quite a bit of Aluminum welding with a cheap Harbor
Freight MIG. Didn't even have a spool gun. (Get a better machine
WITH a spoolgun!) Use Argon gas.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TIG is easy once you get used to it. BUT MIG is by far the easiest
process to master. You can point and shoot. MIG is very tolerant of
crappy tolerances, TIG is not. MIG can be messy if you go too fast and
generally cannot weld thick stuff unless you bought the 175 or higher
types. Most weld up to 3/16 pretty well.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marty Hewes
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 23:49
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: electric motorcycle project
Jeff, I think you've got a point. TIG seems more like gas. If you've
got more experience with gas, then TIG is maybe more intuitive? Having
never done anything but gas, I can't even imagine welding with a wire
electrode feeding at a constant rate. I'm too used to being able to
vary speed, heat and filler feed rate as I go.
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: electric motorcycle project
>I think TIG is easiest. :-)
>
> TIG is like gas, but faster, you create a puddle and add filler.
Slower,
> Precise, You have time to think, manipulate, warm, cool, all in an
inert
> gas atmosphere.
> I have welded onto a corner, to repair a mold and welded 1/4 thick
> 4" square tubing to make the table for the mold to sit on with the
same
> unit. (but above 150A, a water cooled torch is a necessity) I have
even
> welded dissimilar metals, quiet by accident copper to steel.
>
> MIG is more like stick, strike and go and the pace is set, Look at the
> weld when you are done. The only way to go for fabrication and
> sheetmetal(bodywork).
>
> I think TIG is a great all-around welder
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
interesting idea but is that all it takes or will the rest of the
components not work with a higher voltage..
Ironically Otmar might be the only one who could tell you what needed to
make that change or if it even possible.
Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G wrote:
:I was wondering if anyone had taken a curtis and upgraded the
:transistors for 600V capability. I have two curtis controllers and if
:one is dead I was thinking of doing that myself.
I found a lores copy of the 'sucking amps' discovery show and yes it
seems Otmar himself outed the interior of a 2k on national tv :)
here's a few frames:
www.df-cad.dk/web/ev/Zilla2kdiscovery.jpg
www.df-cad.dk/web/ev/Zilla2kdiscovery2.jpg
it appears there are some interesting design choices there that raises
more questions
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Im sorry - I stated that wrong. I should have said 600 AMPS. 600V is
pretty difficult.
Inside the Curtis in the power section is I believe 32 120V transistors
in parallel. I believe with the right components these transistors
could be replaced with ones capable of say 200 V transistors capable of
much higher current. OR the output from the PWM board could be sent out
to 3 IGBT circuits to be able to push some serious current. Maybe even
use the Curtis to push IGBTs.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dan Frederiksen
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 8:55
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Zilla controller insides (now with pictures)
interesting idea but is that all it takes or will the rest of the
components not work with a higher voltage..
Ironically Otmar might be the only one who could tell you what needed to
make that change or if it even possible.
Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G wrote:
:I was wondering if anyone had taken a curtis and upgraded the
:transistors for 600V capability. I have two curtis controllers and if
:one is dead I was thinking of doing that myself.
I found a lores copy of the 'sucking amps' discovery show and yes it
seems Otmar himself outed the interior of a 2k on national tv :) here's
a few frames:
www.df-cad.dk/web/ev/Zilla2kdiscovery.jpg
www.df-cad.dk/web/ev/Zilla2kdiscovery2.jpg
it appears there are some interesting design choices there that raises
more questions
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dinotte lighting is upgrading my 5watt LED headlights
to a new 200 lumen LED which will also increase my
battery time by 30%.
With 4AA 2300 mah batteries it is now supposed to last
130 minutes on high. The old LEDs were 140 lumens and
lasted about 100 minutes on high. Not sure when they
will reach their limit but LEDs are still improving.
Probably will never be enough to matter in a typical
EV. A super ultralight ultra aerodynamic low power one
maybe.
--- Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Darn, there I go posting without checking my facts
> again.
>
> The LED light I have is suppose to draw 10 watts and
> prduces the same
> light as a 25watt halogen.
> It's rated to draw 10 watts produces 170 lumens.
> However, I believe that's
> air cooled, underwater where the heatsink stays
> cooler it produces 25%
> more light, but I can't find anything that says how
> much power it draws,
> however, the batteries only last less tha 1/2 as
> long.
>
> The HID light draws about the same power and
> produces twice as much light
>
> >
> >> Do you actually save enough energy to noticeably
> increase your range
> >> by switching the lighting on your vehicle to LED?
> >
> > Nope. The lights on an EV have an almost
> unmeasureable effect on range to
> > begin with. So, assuming LEDs cut you lighting
> energy requirements in 1/2,
> > you get 1/2 of almost nothing more range.
> > I.e. it might extend your MAXIMUM range by 200-300
> yards. However, if you
> > are driving to maximum range very often you'll
> kill your batteries quick.
> >
> >> Are there LED's bright enough to use for
> headlights?
> > Yes, if you use a bunch of them.
> > I have a dive light that uses paired high power
> LEDs with a water cooled
> > heat sink. It draws about 25 watts and produces
> about 1/2 the light output
> > (lumens) of a 35 watt HID.
> >
> > I'd guess it would take four of these to produce
> the same light as two
> > ordinary headlights. Since ordinary headlights
> draw approx 120 watts,
> > that means you'd save about 20 watts.
> >
> > It takes about 10,000 to 15,000 watts to move a
> typical EV at 55 mph.
> >
> >
> > --
> > If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4
> lines of legalistic
> > junk at the end; then you are specifically
> authorizing me to do whatever I
> > wish with the message. By posting the message you
> agree that your long
> > legalistic signature is void.
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4
> lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically
> authorizing me to do whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you
> agree that your long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Donald (EV List) wrote:
I have covered the plates and remember reading that I shouldn't fill
the cells if the battery is discharged.
Good. The water level will rise as the battery charges. So you just
cover the plates on a dead battery; then charge it; then add the final
amount of water after it is fully charged.
However, I also remember from the Battery FAQ that "The sulfate
crystals are more soluble in water than in electrolyte."
No; the lead sulfate is the active element that makes the battery work.
It gets converted to lead oxide by the *charging* process; not by
dissolving in the water or electrolyte.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
earlier this week i found a jet industries electravan on craigslist, for
$2200, in southern california.
i was going to buy it, but realized that i need to hold off a bit. i have
too much going on right now (getting married, fixing my house, buying a new
house, moving, etc.) and really don't need to add another project to my
life.
anyway, i want to let the list know about this since it seems like a good
deal and the seller is motivated. they're moving from socal to colorado THIS
WEEKEND and the van needs to go away. anyway, i spoke to him a few times,
here's what i know about it...
- it's an electravan 500, not 600. 1978.
- might be the oldest operating electravan.
- still a daily driver, range is 15 miles or so.
- current battery set is 5 years old.
- the van is not rust free.
since he's moving this weekend, he may be able to have a neighbor hold the
van for a few days while transport arrangements are made.
here's the craigslist link:
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/car/337263737.html
here's photos:
http://deepstructure.net/electric_van
here's a phone number:
310.692.5791
i would recommend calling instead of emailing since it seems pretty time
sensitive. he does have a buddy who's willing to give him $2k i think, but
he didn't seem that interested. he'd really rather find a good home for it.
m.
================================================
Michael Wendell
Web/Graphics Guy
Speedgoat Bicycles
www.speedgoat.com
724.238.7181
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
win an amazing bike, fight breast cancer:
http://www.speedgoat.com/raffle1.asp
================================================
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
just wanted to add one more thing... the van is set up for towing. no, it
doesn't have a hitch, it's set up to tow beind a car or truck. it has a
removable a-frame hitch on the front.
might make picking it up a little easier for someone?
finally, remember, i am not the seller, nor do i have any association with
the seller, other than a few phone calls getting information.
later,
m.
================================================
Michael Wendell
Web/Graphics Guy
Speedgoat Bicycles
www.speedgoat.com
724.238.7181
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
win an amazing bike, fight breast cancer:
http://www.speedgoat.com/raffle1.asp
================================================
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 10:18 AM
Subject: electravan for sale... urgent
earlier this week i found a jet industries electravan on craigslist, for
$2200, in southern california.
i was going to buy it, but realized that i need to hold off a bit. i have
too much going on right now (getting married, fixing my house, buying a new
house, moving, etc.) and really don't need to add another project to my
life.
anyway, i want to let the list know about this since it seems like a good
deal and the seller is motivated. they're moving from socal to colorado THIS
WEEKEND and the van needs to go away. anyway, i spoke to him a few times,
here's what i know about it...
- it's an electravan 500, not 600. 1978.
- might be the oldest operating electravan.
- still a daily driver, range is 15 miles or so.
- current battery set is 5 years old.
- the van is not rust free.
since he's moving this weekend, he may be able to have a neighbor hold the
van for a few days while transport arrangements are made.
here's the craigslist link:
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/car/337263737.html
here's photos:
http://deepstructure.net/electric_van
here's a phone number:
310.692.5791
i would recommend calling instead of emailing since it seems pretty time
sensitive. he does have a buddy who's willing to give him $2k i think, but
he didn't seem that interested. he'd really rather find a good home for it.
m.
================================================
Michael Wendell
Web/Graphics Guy
Speedgoat Bicycles
www.speedgoat.com
724.238.7181
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
win an amazing bike, fight breast cancer:
http://www.speedgoat.com/raffle1.asp
================================================
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tehben Dean wrote:
Do you actually save enough energy to noticeably increase your range by
switching the lighting on your vehicle to LED?
Are there LED's bright enough to use for headlights?
At present, LEDs are not an effective light source for headlights. They
do excel as indicators (dashboards) and tail lights.
The 12v electrical system in a car is dreadfully inefficient; all parts
of it. The lights are only a small part, so even if you cut their power
consumption 10:1, it would still only be a small reduction due to the
other high-current loads. And even if you reduced *all* 12v loads by
10:1, it will still only reduce total power used in an electric car by a
few percent.
It still may be worth doing for other reasons; but not just to save energy.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
