EV Digest 6832
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Zilla controller insides
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) BC-20 getting hot...
by "Andrew A." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Thundersky
by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jukka_J=E4rvinen?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Thundersky
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Zilla controller insides
by "rcboyd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Valence batteries (Was: Mustang Conversions)
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Zilla controller insides- Curtis upgrade
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Charging batteries in parallel (Rescue GEM)
by Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: BC-20 getting hot...
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Zilla controller insides
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Electric Hummer
by Stephen Brawner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Zilla controller insides
by "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Zilla controller insides- Curtis upgrade
by "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) ISE and Altair Nano - Li-Ion Packs for Heavy-Duty Vehicles
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Still the plasma King, a Siamese8 update
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Controller without caps
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: BC-20 getting hot...
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Yahoo! Auto Response
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
19) Question: Suitable Late Model Donor Vehicles
by Darren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Thundersky
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Weather proofness of electric car components
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Email GM EV ideas/product info for the Volt
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Email GM EV ideas/product info for the Volt
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Still the plasma King, a Siamese8 update
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) More fun stories from the shop
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Still the plasma King, a Siamese8 update
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Dan Frederiksen wrote:
> I am new to EVs and was hoping to be able to help promote
> the EV in various ways and I'm quite frankly amazed that
> noone have looked inside one of the key components and put
> it on a website. Well, other than Otmar reverse engineering
> a curtis and posting articles on it of course :)
> Isn't that how he started his controller building career...
> how's that for background information Roger : )
Surprisingly enough, I don't think this is actually accurate.
My understanding is that Otmar started off using and repairing Curtis
controllers and experimented with modifying them for regen operation
(ultimately deciding that while this was possible, it wasn't
particularly reliable). Doing this required him to understand the
Curtis and its weaknesses, and at some point he decided to build a
better mousetrap.
Now, it makes no difference to me if he was familiar with the Curtis
guts before thinking of building his own controller, or if he
specifically reverse engineered one after deciding to get into the
business. While it may be dis-illusioning for some, the reality of
advancing the state of the art is that one must first examine
competitive products to understand what can be done to move forward
instead of simply reinventing the wheel.
If one searches the 'net, they should be able to find pictures of the
insides of an Auburn, a Curtis, a DCP, etc. without great difficulty.
I don't expect it will sway you from your quest, but I think it would
make far more sense to focus on understanding the lowly Curtis and see
what you can come up with that delivers comparable or better performance
to that. As others have pointed out, it would be exceedingly difficult
to build a better or more inexpensive Zilla than Otmar can (and does).
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
I have my truck on the road now and I'm loving it. One
slight problem, though. My K & W BC-20 charger and
boost transformer got really hot while charging at 11A
or so from a 20A circuit.
Is this normal during prolonged charging? Or do I have
a problem?
Right now I have it charging at about 5A and it seems
fine.
Thanks!
Andrew
____________________________________________________________________________________
Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news,
photos & more.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
They are good cells when used right. Some folks in this list got old
stock and got disappointed. Who would not ?
LFP cells you're referring here are stiff in cold enviroment. They allow
much more abuse than LCPs and LMPs. This is due high combustion temp and
some other chemistry related properties. LFPs are quite good for SLA
replacement due the voltage behaviour.
I've been following from a side for a some time already how people think
they are safe without BMS due the misleading forgiveness of the LFP
cells. You can overcharge them and they will slowly loose capacity. Then
they die. It's like only flames have been the issue here ??
It is essential to use BMS for all commercially available Li-Ion cells
not perhaps for safety anymore but at least long lifetime and accurate
SOH information.
My experience is limited to about 1 milloin Ah of these cells up to this
date. By using good cells you'll get what you need. If there's even one
bad apple in the basket.. you'll need help.
Price you got is ok. Lithium prices doubled last year and still demand
is groving like crazy.
But no worries. Chinese have cutting edge technology and some really
exciting new batteries are coming to markets. We are living exciting times.
New recycling technology and new mines for essential minerals will solve
many issues.
-Jukka
p.s.- You can see some conversions done with these cells in EValbum...
one new car added just yesterday...
Sam Maynard kirjoitti:
Anyone have experience with these?:
http://www.everspring.net/product-battery-pricing.htm
I got a quote that is about $670/KWh for a quantity of sixty 40Ah 3.2V
cells delivered to nearest airport.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So, that's about $86/cell?
At 01:43 PM 6/1/2007, Sam Maynard wrote:
Anyone have experience with these?:
http://www.everspring.net/product-battery-pricing.htm
I got a quote that is about $670/KWh for a quantity of sixty 40Ah
3.2V cells delivered to nearest airport.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would like to add, that without the special procedures and some very
expensive materials used to obtain the very close tolerances held to by
Otmar, you couldn't manufacture the same controller.
Bob Boyd
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rod Hower
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 7:48 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Zilla controller insides
I dis-assembled a 1k Zilla when I did an install on a
Sparrow (Myers Motors NMG). I think all of the new
NMG vehicles currently use a Zilla. I took several
pictures and documented the parts used. I've designed
motor controls for Caterpiller, GE, Baldor and Ametek
and know the costs involved in creating these
controls.
I came to the conclusion that the power electronic
parts used in the Zilla are high cost and best on the
market but nowhere close to the cost of a Zilla
control. The mechanical parts and machining involved
are pretty expensive however. Selling a Zilla in the
quantities that Otmar does is not a very profitable
business. I think the margins he makes on sales is
probably more of an EV enthusiast than a businessman
looking for big profits. Otmar is smart enough to
realize that if quantities are large enough he could
outsource his design himself to China, but I don't
think this is possible at this time. The bottom line
is Otmar sells his controls to promote the EV and is
not making big bucks. I applaud his efforts and think
his design is pure genius. You will not find another
control on the market with the reliability and
performance that his control offers. Keep up the good
work Otmar!!
Rod
--- Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm curious about what the zillas look like on the
> inside, does anyone
> have photos they could share?
> those of you that might think that's wrong to ask
> try to realize that
> curiosity is not a sin and that's how we learn. many
> of us have opened
> things to see what it looks inside even if we never
> really learned
> anything from it. Otmar certainly has opened a
> curtis or two in his time.
>
> thanks in advance
> Dan Frederiksen
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, May 31, 2007 at 11:55:56AM -0700, Chris Jones wrote:
>
> $17,568 for 12 12.8V 100Ah 33 lb U24-12-XP modules,
> and $100 for a U-BMS-XP-HV battery management
> controller.
I'm surprised your range is only 35 miles with this setup.
If your pack is 15Kwh, then that means your using ~430Wh/Mile.
Is that correct?
Thanks!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Phil,
Which transistors and 'a few resistors' did you
change?
Did you upgrade the caps to lower ESR, higher temp?
Thanks,
Rod
--- "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I've done this with an old Curtis that was modified
> by "Golf Tech" with a
> new driver board. After a catastrophic blue smoke
> event, I beefed up the
> MOSFETs with new ones that had much lower on
> resistance and thus current
> capacity. The gate drive waveforms didn't look that
> good, so I changed 2
> transistors to new ones with superior specs and a
> few resistors until it
> looked better on the scope.
>
> The controller is still running great after a few
> years!
>
> -Phil
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Condie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 1:44 PM
> Subject: RE: Zilla controller insides
>
>
> > Logisystems Controllers in Texas does this with
> Curtis 1221s and 1209s,
> > but my impression is that the road has not been
> smooth. Apparently it's
> > easy enough to put beefier components in the box
> (newer ones are more
> > efficient and thus create less waste heat, even)
> but it seems as though
> > there a nagging problem with occasional smoke
> escape issues. They've gone
> > as high as 800 - 1000 amps and 144-156 volts.
> >
> > "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I
> > was wondering if anyone had taken a curtis and
> upgraded the
> > transistors for 600V capability. I have two
> curtis controllers and if
> > one is dead I was thinking of doing that myself.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Dan Frederiksen
> > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 20:04
> > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > Subject: Re: Zilla controller insides
> >
> > Peter Gabrielsson was nice enough to send me this
> photo looking into a
> > curtis controller. I for one find it interesting
> and inspiring and would
> > love to see more.
> > Those of you who think it's a dastardly deed he
> has done should probably
> > avert your eyes
> >
> > http://www.df-cad.dk/web/ev/Curtis.jpg
> >
> > I am new to EVs and was hoping to be able to help
> promote the EV in
> > various ways and I'm quite frankly amazed that
> noone have looked inside
> > one of the key components and put it on a website.
> Well, other than
> > Otmar reverse engineering a curtis and posting
> articles on it of course
> > :) Isn't that how he started his controller
> building career... how's
> > that for background information Roger : )
> >
> > There is nothing wrong with what I ask of course.
> We all get inspired
> > and learn from other products and we are the
> better for it.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Choose the right car based on your needs. Check
> out Yahoo! Autos new Car
> > Finder tool.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Jun 1, 2007, at 6:46 AM, Lee Hart wrote:
No; the lead sulfate is the active element that makes the battery
work.
It gets converted to lead oxide by the *charging* process; not by
dissolving in the water or electrolyte.
Uh Lee, I agree that the charging process changes lead sulfate back
into lead oxide but where does the sulfur in the sulfate go? Back
into the acid electrolyte, which is why the specific gravity of a
battery changes with SOC.
You only want enough water in a discharged battery to just barely
cover the plates. The electrolyte level in the cells will be quite a
bit higher when the battery is charged. I've been told *and* I've
learned the hard way!
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's normal for a BC-20. At 11A charging current you are probably pulling
near 15 amps from the outlet. The difference is wasted as heat in the BC-20
due to the way it works.
The BC-20 is light and small, but can't do fast charging without getting hot.
David Brandt
----- Original Message ----
From: Andrew A. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Friday, June 1, 2007 5:21:12 PM
Subject: BC-20 getting hot...
Hi all,
I have my truck on the road now and I'm loving it. One
slight problem, though. My K & W BC-20 charger and
boost transformer got really hot while charging at 11A
or so from a 20A circuit.
Is this normal during prolonged charging? Or do I have
a problem?
Right now I have it charging at about 5A and it seems
fine.
Thanks!
Andrew
____________________________________________________________________________________
Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news,
photos & more.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC
____________________________________________________________________________________
Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545367
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
You can replace the parts, but can't do anything about
the basic board spacings.
Could the board be stripped down and sent out for an "upsized" version
of the same layout for higher voltage/current carrying capacity?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm sure this idea isn't new, but I haven't been able to find anyone
online who has done it. I would probably require very hefty parts and
would probably cost around $20k for the conversion. But given the
large amount of batteries that could be held, the range might not be
to bad.
The owner of full flex international converted a HUMMER H2 to run on
pure ethanol (he brews it at home) and supposedly gets better gas
mileage than the typical H2. The conversion cost was basically free
(since they sell the product) and the time for the conversion took
"about 15 minutes". He uses the vehicle largely to promote the
product he sells. I'm not saying the electric vehicle would be this
easy, but it would be a good way to get the name out.
If you're curious about the ethanol H2 you can see a video on it.
http://www.kicktheoilhabit.org/roadtrip/node/2151
Anyone interested?
Stephen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Looks like Otmar not only built a better mousetrap, but one that is equally
well at hamsters. It apparently not only traps them, but convinces them to
work for you!
-Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 2:01 PM
Subject: RE: Zilla controller insides
Dan Frederiksen wrote:
I am new to EVs and was hoping to be able to help promote
the EV in various ways and I'm quite frankly amazed that
noone have looked inside one of the key components and put
it on a website. Well, other than Otmar reverse engineering
a curtis and posting articles on it of course :)
Isn't that how he started his controller building career...
how's that for background information Roger : )
Surprisingly enough, I don't think this is actually accurate.
My understanding is that Otmar started off using and repairing Curtis
controllers and experimented with modifying them for regen operation
(ultimately deciding that while this was possible, it wasn't
particularly reliable). Doing this required him to understand the
Curtis and its weaknesses, and at some point he decided to build a
better mousetrap.
Now, it makes no difference to me if he was familiar with the Curtis
guts before thinking of building his own controller, or if he
specifically reverse engineered one after deciding to get into the
business. While it may be dis-illusioning for some, the reality of
advancing the state of the art is that one must first examine
competitive products to understand what can be done to move forward
instead of simply reinventing the wheel.
If one searches the 'net, they should be able to find pictures of the
insides of an Auburn, a Curtis, a DCP, etc. without great difficulty.
I don't expect it will sway you from your quest, but I think it would
make far more sense to focus on understanding the lowly Curtis and see
what you can come up with that delivers comparable or better performance
to that. As others have pointed out, it would be exceedingly difficult
to build a better or more inexpensive Zilla than Otmar can (and does).
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't remember exactly, I'd have to rip the cover off. The 2 transistors
were the complimentary gate drive pair (if I remember right) and the
resistors are around that circuit. I think it was switching on too fast and
off too slowly.
Yes, all new high-temp, low ESR electrolytics made for switch-mode use. 2
of the caps looked like they had overheated, and general capacitor weakening
was a probable suspect on the MOSFET failures.
I didn't upgrade the freewheel diodes however. They are small puck packages
with tabs. The new MOSFETs had body diodes that were vastly superior
though.
-Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rod Hower" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: Zilla controller insides- Curtis upgrade
Phil,
Which transistors and 'a few resistors' did you
change?
Did you upgrade the caps to lower ESR, higher temp?
Thanks,
Rod
--- "(-Phil-)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I've done this with an old Curtis that was modified
by "Golf Tech" with a
new driver board. After a catastrophic blue smoke
event, I beefed up the
MOSFETs with new ones that had much lower on
resistance and thus current
capacity. The gate drive waveforms didn't look that
good, so I changed 2
transistors to new ones with superior specs and a
few resistors until it
looked better on the scope.
The controller is still running great after a few
years!
-Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Condie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 1:44 PM
Subject: RE: Zilla controller insides
> Logisystems Controllers in Texas does this with
Curtis 1221s and 1209s,
> but my impression is that the road has not been
smooth. Apparently it's
> easy enough to put beefier components in the box
(newer ones are more
> efficient and thus create less waste heat, even)
but it seems as though
> there a nagging problem with occasional smoke
escape issues. They've gone
> as high as 800 - 1000 amps and 144-156 volts.
>
> "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I
> was wondering if anyone had taken a curtis and
upgraded the
> transistors for 600V capability. I have two
curtis controllers and if
> one is dead I was thinking of doing that myself.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Dan Frederiksen
> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 20:04
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Zilla controller insides
>
> Peter Gabrielsson was nice enough to send me this
photo looking into a
> curtis controller. I for one find it interesting
and inspiring and would
> love to see more.
> Those of you who think it's a dastardly deed he
has done should probably
> avert your eyes
>
> http://www.df-cad.dk/web/ev/Curtis.jpg
>
> I am new to EVs and was hoping to be able to help
promote the EV in
> various ways and I'm quite frankly amazed that
noone have looked inside
> one of the key components and put it on a website.
Well, other than
> Otmar reverse engineering a curtis and posting
articles on it of course
> :) Isn't that how he started his controller
building career... how's
> that for background information Roger : )
>
> There is nothing wrong with what I ask of course.
We all get inspired
> and learn from other products and we are the
better for it.
>
> Dan
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Choose the right car based on your needs. Check
out Yahoo! Autos new Car
> Finder tool.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
ISE and Altair Nanotechnologies in Joint Development Agreement for
Li-Ion Packs for Heavy-Duty Vehicles
1 June 2007
For the entire article: http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/06/
ise_and_altair_.html#more
ISE Corporation, a developer and manufacturer of electric and
hybrid-electric drive systems and components for heavy-duty
vehicles, and Altair Nanotechnologies (Altairnano) have entered
into an agreement to jointly develop and commercially supply
lithium-ion rechargeable battery packs for use in hybrid-electric
and all-electric heavy-duty vehicles.
Under the agreement, Altairnano will provide NanoSafe cells and
batteries for the battery pack based on their proprietary lithium
titanate electrode materials, along with data concerning the proper
care and management of their cells and batteries.
ISE will design the system utilizing its data on operating
environments, vehicle shock and vibration criteria, vehicle duty
cycles and proprietary software and control electronics. Other
cooperative areas will include cell equalization and packaging of
the commercial product. The goal is to develop and commercially
supply high quality, cost-effective, lithium battery packs for
heavy-duty buses, trucks, military vehicles and airport ground
support equipment.
ISE intends to continue to be a leader in the development of
energy storage solutions for heavy duty electric and hybrid
electric vehicles. We are excited to have partnered with Altairnano
and feel that Altairnano's unique nano technology yields power
storage solutions with high power and extremely long life that are
ideally suited to maximize the performance of heavy duty hybrid
vehicles.
—David Mazaika, President and CEO of ISE Corporation
Altairnano currently is providing a 35 kWh lithium-ion battery pack
for the Phoenix Motorcars all-electric light-duty sport utility
truck. (Earlier post.) Separately, AeroVironment announced that it
has tested and validated Altairnano and Phoenix Motorcar’s claim
that the Altairnano battery can be recharged in less than 10
minutes without harm to the battery.
Interesting to note what AeroVironment said about recharging the
Altair Nano batteries:
"...AeroVironment announced that it has tested and validated
Altairnano and Phoenix Motorcar’s claim that the Altairnano battery
can be recharged in less than 10 minutes without harm to the battery."
I want some of those batteries :P~
Tehben
-Lithium batteries are <accent>sweeet!</accent>... but don't think
about them, because its bad for your morale-
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Everyone
Wanted to get you all an update on what's going on
with Waylands motor. Before I do that though I need
to start with a little lead in.
It's actually been months where besides a quick hello
and a peck on the cheek like some old married couple
that John and I have been able to sit down and have
any hang out time. Well last night<snip this all
happened yesterday> he called to tell me he was coming
over the mountain "today", which was a bummer because
I had to go to Portland, what can you do?
We agreed to phone in at spots as we progressed so we
could at least stop somewhere for a quicky 8^o LMAO!
As it worked out I was able to zip over the pass and
hooked up with John in the little town of Zig-Zag.
John had seen their "best breakfast on the mountain"
sign on previous trips and wanted to give it a try.
John loves the little out of the way diners, where as
I see them more in the "where B rated horror films
stuff" takes place. I arrived first (of course) and
scoped it out for any signs of "horror" hehe. John
arrived but a few minutes later which was good as I'm
pretty sure I can outrun John if in fact anything foul
took place. As it turned out it was rather nice for a
creepy old place in the middle of nowhere. The food
was good but then I'm 148 lbs so what do I know about
food, John's the one who has the breakfast fetish (you
guys have no idea).
I ended up only eating half mine as one, there's only
one good time for me to talk to John and that's when
he stuffing his face and I can get a word in 8^P and
two, I just don't eat much (does that mean I have good
WH miles or howEVer you say it, Hey leave me alone I'm
the motor guy, LMAO!
Anyway after months of Wayland putting off getting me
the motor he tells me that the Wall street journal has
plans to come check the car out and how fast I can get
the motor back?
Okay now here's a question for the group, who wants to
see White Zombie up? Cause I'm really feeling that
John needs to learn a lesson here. I was thinking
that maybe Mark or Chris could work up a quick site
with two bottons, save Waylands ass, and a screw him
botton. I bet I know a couple guys who'd have double
servings of the screw him botton, LMAO!
Now, before you vote lets take a look at the facts.
I am 100 percent positive that I publicly instructed
John and Tim to mount up the ass end of that motor as
I saw that the rear side armature had rubbed the pole
shoes after the Woodburn flashover. Now did they
listen? Nope, and to be honest I bet they didn't EVen
discuss it.
Flashing forward a bit I was able to pull the motor
apart and low and behold are massive rub marks on the
rear output side 8^o What's been happening is the
rear end of the motor has been waggling around in
circles like a dog sniffing an ass crack as it pumped
out what must be getting close to 800 ft.lbs. The
front side being mounted at the end is in awesome
shape.
I was able to get the armature assy up on the lathe so
I could see how the shaft held up being it had been
allowed to wobble like an 1/8" for a year and a half
(who's counting). It was dead on balls true so that
was awesome to see. Now you have to remember that
this is only an 1 1/8th shaft! SO much Kudos to Keith
at Dutchmans for his choice in metal. He never did
tell us exactly what it is just that it's "starchy"
what EVer the heck that means, I'll call it "Timex"
LMAO!!!
I made time to pull all the pieces off the shaft today
and nothing slipped, or broke, or wore, and in fact I
was super pleased by how smooth the bearing still
felt. There's no hiding the fact that the rear arm
got really pissed and a bit hurt slapping it's face
against the pole shoes (try running a 100 yard dash
wearing a jockstrap made out of a cheese graiter, see
how fast you go 8^). Anyway it's tested out good on
what tests I've done so far. I sent John some pics to
authorize and will post some this weekend, yeah I have
to ask isn't that lame, LMAO 8^P.
In the pics you'll see that at least two of the
brushes are all but gone. The meltdown of the holders
was the worst I've seen to date, and I've seen stuff
that was before my time! Now it was a pretty good
thing that John didn't take it out for a 30 something
mile pleasure cruise in this condition! Oh wait a
minute he did, freaking Motor Satan! On a good note
I'd like him to do his eff. chart after using a fully
functioning motor assy, cause the rear side was all
but dead weight, LMAO!
I actually set the shaft up against Lawless' Siamese9
motor today, looked good, bet I could mod the motors
to fit it 8^o to bad he needs a 1 3/16th" diameter 8^(
Yeah you think I'm joking huh John, hehe. Anyway the
Siamese8 lies in pieces on the floor and I mean in
pieces so I got the princess by the balls. What do
you all think, do I bump someone and let him cut in
line or what? I better hear from some Wayland fans on
this! Seriously this is the type of choice I have to
make all the time. I'm one guy and it's one motor at
a time for the most part. In as much as this is a
short term issue it still sucks to not serve each and
everyone of you with prompter service so to speak 8^)
On that I wish EVeryone well, hope you enjoyed, and
I'll post pics soon. And I'll end with John says he's
going to mount the motor better which is good cause I
listen to him so he better damn right start listen to
me at least in some areas AS I DO KNOW WHAT I'M
TALKING ABOUT SOMETIMES 8^)
I hope EVeryones having a great time at PODC and the
rest enjoy their weekend.
Anyway if John locks the ass end down and keeps the
arm from hitting that'll knock that 1/10 sec off for
that 11 sec run 8^) and the motor might not EVen be
pissed about it!
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
just an idea, can a controller work without caps? is there some
electronics reason why it would kill the controller to not have capacitors?
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--- Begin Message ---
Just echoing David's response, based on my experience
with the VoltsRabbit.
--- David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> That's normal for a BC-20. At 11A charging current
> you are probably pulling near 15 amps from the
> outlet. The difference is wasted as heat in the
> BC-20 due to the way it works.
>
> The BC-20 is light and small, but can't do fast
> charging without getting hot.
>
>
>
> David Brandt
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Andrew A. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Sent: Friday, June 1, 2007 5:21:12 PM
> Subject: BC-20 getting hot...
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I have my truck on the road now and I'm loving it.
> One
> slight problem, though. My K & W BC-20 charger and
> boost transformer got really hot while charging at
> 11A
> or so from a 20A circuit.
>
> Is this normal during prolonged charging? Or do I
> have
> a problem?
>
> Right now I have it charging at about 5A and it
> seems
> fine.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
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> in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more.
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>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
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> in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.
>
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>
>
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'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I probably won't be able to check my emails until Tuesday. Pls. phone, if you
need an answer asap. Cheers!
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--- Begin Message ---
Since I seem unable to find a suitable EV vehicle for my family, I'm
considering building my own with the help of a few skilled
individuals. I'm looking for a four door small vehicle that has at
least a little cargo space. Something like the RAV4 EV or the Honda
CRV.
However, rather that stick batteries in every nook and cranny I'm
thinking about building a serious battery box under the vehicle that
can be bolted to frame under the vehicle and lowered with jacks
should batteries ever need replacing. I look at the Honda CRV and
see all kinds of space under that particular vehicle. However, I'm
wondering what other vehicles I should I look at.
I'm only interested in 2000 or newer vehicles and ideally vehicles
that are less that three years old. I want something that has
clearance to spare under the vehicle and is as light as possible. I
might also consider a 4 door truck, but these tend to be heavier.
Second, I'm wondering who I should consult with regarding the
selection of of other components such as motor, adapter, controller,
charger and batteries. I know of Electro Automotive, but are there
others I should be talking to?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Darren
--
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John wrote -
> So, that's about $86/cell?
>
That's what I get also.
At the website it says 3C rate, and good for 1000 cycles to 80% DOD.
And you have to add on a BMS for the pack.
Still expensive compared to lead acids.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
www.TEVA2.com
www.Airphibian.com
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--- Begin Message ---
Yup, and they are commutated. They use a "sparkless" comuttator which is
to say carbon on carbon.
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--- Begin Message ---
The new video where he says to email them:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNbNwst3_C4
The email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I can only surmise there are a lot of niche products out there that
could be of use to GM that they are currently unaware of. Just think
of all the new obscure websites that have been created over the past
couple of months concerning EV products that only we on this list are
aware of and no one reading this can recall the URL's to these very
sites without searching them out.
How about those obscure potentially promising made in China, similar
to A123 cells?
I still think they should sell multiple range variations of the EV
version of the Volt. Just buy as much range as you need. You want
~1,000 miles per charge? Sure we make a version with a pack that
large... (prices go down in proportion to how many batteries they
produce right?) Li cells will be ~.10 cents each some day right?
Does A123 have more then one assembly line? Because if their current
one is running at capacity(and limiting their total sales as a
result), that is never going to change.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Or send it here ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) as per:
http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/contact.html if the other is not working
currently(too much email too it?), or post here for all to see/read:
http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What do you all think, do I bump someone and let him cut in
line or what?
So what are you doing this weekend? ;)
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--- Begin Message ---
Hey all
I had a couple of funny things happen down at the shop
today. As I posted, I pressed the arms off the shaft
on the Siamese8. I had just popped the first armature
off and was grabbing some pics of them seperated (it
was kinda like watching cells divide, lol). Anyway
I've had this new UPS driver for a couple weeks now,
but probably haven't said a dozen words to the guy as
I've been beating cheeks 8^o. I except stuff for the
neighbor next door and the guy came in just as I was
grabbing some pics.
He asks me "why are you taking pictures?" "so you know
how to put it back together?" Realizing that this new
guy didn't have a clue as to what I did I told him it
was for an electric race car and was kind of a famous
motor 8^) I remain grounded but I can't help getting
a little puffy chested when talking about it with new
folks 8^P
The guy looks at me, kinda scans the shop, then gets
this half cocked smile like I was pulling some new UPS
recruit gag on him, hehehe. He says "seriously?",
"Full sized cars?"
Being I was sweating like a pig from hand pumping
Waylands shaft 8^o I needed a break anyway. Now I
know that they run the drivers like dogs but I asked
him if he had a second and I'd smoke his mind! His
eyes got all big like Cindy Lue Who and said you bet!
I popped up a quick video of WZ just kicking the crap
out of a Mach1 and the guy just shit! Now he's still
a little leary of EVerything. He's looking around at
my little rathole of a shop, and I'm showing him stuff
that his world is flat brain can't digest quick
enough, LMAO! I brought him into the office where I
have a framed "Car and Driver" hung on the wall, along
with some achievement do-hickies.
Now the guys like, Okay I bought the whole race car
thing, but Car and Driver, LMAO!!!! Ohhh God I like
screwing with the new guys 8^o ROF! If you all saw my
shop it'd be funnier 8^P
Anyway he wanted to know where to see that video again
so I told him where to go and then to type in
Killacycle, LMAO! I can't wait till Monday to see if
this kid had time to check it all out, funny stuff
though. He said he was going to show it to all his
friends so hopefully there will be a little extra
intrest developed 8^)
On another note and going back to the armature
pressing. Tim had thought the armature had spun on
the shaft which we now know was the arm hitting the
pole shoes. John and I both wanted to make sure so I
decided to pop the rear arm off also.
I tried first leaving the arm room temp as I did for
the first one. It had come off good but was plenty
firm. Reversing the setup I started
pumping....pumping, pump, ohhhh. Damn okay better
heat it up, LMAO! I actually wanted to see because if
it did just pop loose then indeed the arm had spun, so
this was a good sign 8^) Okay into the oven and cook
to 365 degrees or until a yummy golden brown, hehe.
Welding glooves on, I grab that hot tator and head to
the press, post haste! 8^o Checking to make sure that
all is a go no go for flight I fire the old arm up
again, pumping... pumping, pump, Ohhh, pump oh,
puuump, okay crap, step back make sure shaft isn't
bent over, LMAO! okay, pump... POP, Oh damn.. Oh,
look, okay good, pump, pump 8^)
Now picture this, my press has a 6" stroke so after
every stroke I got to lift the table a hole so
throughout this process the table went from bottom
hole to almost the top one as the arm slid along 2
feet of shaft 8^o
Now when I finally felt the shaft get loose I stopped
as I didn't want the shaft to fall and other issues so
I pulled the arm out with the shaft still attached.
About this time Dan the airplane man comes strolling
in to get the daily scoop. He instantly spots the
armature with it's glisening shaft. Now I don't know
what it is but there isn't a man out there that upon
seeing this shaft doesn't reach out and grab it, LMAO.
What Dan didn't know was this shaft was 365 degrees
8^o
I see his hand going out for the grab and I'm saying
Hot, hot, HOT about as fast as a human can make it
happen but like a fly to a light he could not tell his
brain to resist the power of the shaft! It wasn't a
long embrace but one I'm sure will forever be
remembered. I'll know more if whether or not Dan
became the first guy to get a WZ tatoo (on the palm of
his hand no less). Can you imagine,whats that scar
from, Um fondling another mans shaft! OMG, funny
shit, unless your Dan, haha.
I'll give Dan credit, he didn't even wimper, then
again maybe a smarter guy might have noticed the
welding glooves I was wearing and the sweat beading
down my forehead 8^)
WOW breaking news, hehe. Otmar just called and he and
a buddy are flying in to mountain bike Smith Rock and
wanted to know if I could shuttle them there and take
the shop nickle tour. When I told him I had the
Siamese8 in pieces he siad he was totally there, LMAO!
Would it be evil to heat the shaft back up? 8^o
Anyway although I'm not able to attend the Power of DC
I get to go hang out with Otmar, haha 8^P Oh and I'm
telling him about the hampster thing to, LMAO!
Had fun
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
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Finder tool.
http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > What do you all think, do I bump someone and let
> him cut in
> > line or what?
>
> So what are you doing this weekend? ;)
>
>
Hanging out with Otmar it now seems, so I guess two
get bumped now, LMAO! What am I supposed to do, it's
Omtar for Gods sake, ROFLMAO
Yeah I know I suck 8^P
Thanks for asking though, hehe.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
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