EV Digest 6833
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Replacement or addition to EV's
by Dirk Ouellette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: More fun stories from the shop/Looking at a used EV tomorrow!
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) Re: Question: Suitable Late Model Donor Vehicles
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
4) One from Alaska too (was RE: More fun stories from the shop)
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) 100 mph street motorcycle !!!!!!!
by "ROBERT GOUDREAU" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Valence batteries (Was: Mustang Conversions)
by Chris Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: new EV for me (well, a Golf Cart really...)
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Electric Hummer
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Question: Suitable Late Model Donor Vehicles
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: ISE and Altair Nano - Li-Ion Packs for Heavy-Duty Vehicles
by =?windows-1252?Q?Jukka_J=E4rvinen?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: ISE and Altair Nano - Li-Ion Packs for Heavy-Duty Vehicles
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Electric Hummer
by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jukka_J=E4rvinen?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Question: Suitable Late Model Donor Vehicles
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Ian Anderson on electric cars
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Question: Suitable Late Model Donor Vehicles
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Mustang Conversions (Was: How to search archives)
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: new EV for me (well, a Golf Cart really...)
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Controller without caps
by "Dale Ulan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: ISE and Altair Nano - Li-Ion Packs for Heavy-Duty Vehicles
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Put some potatoe soup in your tank.
_http://link.abpi.net/l.php?20070531A21_
--
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Similar!!!
I love the way ANYONE I tell of the Electric car reacts. "No gas?", is always
the first question!
Seeing and driving my first EV tomorrow!!! Test driving a '94 Solectria for
possible purchase.
Any suggestions?
Anthony
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: EVDL <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Subject: More fun stories from the shop
> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 20:10:38 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
> Hey all
>
> I had a couple of funny things happen down at the shop
> today. As I posted, I pressed the arms off the shaft
> on the Siamese8. I had just popped the first armature
> off and was grabbing some pics of them seperated (it
> was kinda like watching cells divide, lol). Anyway
> I've had this new UPS driver for a couple weeks now,
> but probably haven't said a dozen words to the guy as
> I've been beating cheeks 8^o. I except stuff for the
> neighbor next door and the guy came in just as I was
> grabbing some pics.
>
> He asks me "why are you taking pictures?" "so you know
> how to put it back together?" Realizing that this new
> guy didn't have a clue as to what I did I told him it
> was for an electric race car and was kind of a famous
> motor 8^) I remain grounded but I can't help getting
> a little puffy chested when talking about it with new
> folks 8^P
>
> The guy looks at me, kinda scans the shop, then gets
> this half cocked smile like I was pulling some new UPS
> recruit gag on him, hehehe. He says "seriously?",
> "Full sized cars?"
>
> Being I was sweating like a pig from hand pumping
> Waylands shaft 8^o I needed a break anyway. Now I
> know that they run the drivers like dogs but I asked
> him if he had a second and I'd smoke his mind! His
> eyes got all big like Cindy Lue Who and said you bet!
>
> I popped up a quick video of WZ just kicking the crap
> out of a Mach1 and the guy just shit! Now he's still
> a little leary of EVerything. He's looking around at
> my little rathole of a shop, and I'm showing him stuff
> that his world is flat brain can't digest quick
> enough, LMAO! I brought him into the office where I
> have a framed "Car and Driver" hung on the wall, along
> with some achievement do-hickies.
>
> Now the guys like, Okay I bought the whole race car
> thing, but Car and Driver, LMAO!!!! Ohhh God I like
> screwing with the new guys 8^o ROF! If you all saw my
> shop it'd be funnier 8^P
>
> Anyway he wanted to know where to see that video again
> so I told him where to go and then to type in
> Killacycle, LMAO! I can't wait till Monday to see if
> this kid had time to check it all out, funny stuff
> though. He said he was going to show it to all his
> friends so hopefully there will be a little extra
> intrest developed 8^)
>
> On another note and going back to the armature
> pressing. Tim had thought the armature had spun on
> the shaft which we now know was the arm hitting the
> pole shoes. John and I both wanted to make sure so I
> decided to pop the rear arm off also.
>
> I tried first leaving the arm room temp as I did for
> the first one. It had come off good but was plenty
> firm. Reversing the setup I started
> pumping....pumping, pump, ohhhh. Damn okay better
> heat it up, LMAO! I actually wanted to see because if
> it did just pop loose then indeed the arm had spun, so
> this was a good sign 8^) Okay into the oven and cook
> to 365 degrees or until a yummy golden brown, hehe.
>
> Welding glooves on, I grab that hot tator and head to
> the press, post haste! 8^o Checking to make sure that
> all is a go no go for flight I fire the old arm up
> again, pumping... pumping, pump, Ohhh, pump oh,
> puuump, okay crap, step back make sure shaft isn't
> bent over, LMAO! okay, pump... POP, Oh damn.. Oh,
> look, okay good, pump, pump 8^)
>
> Now picture this, my press has a 6" stroke so after
> every stroke I got to lift the table a hole so
> throughout this process the table went from bottom
> hole to almost the top one as the arm slid along 2
> feet of shaft 8^o
>
> Now when I finally felt the shaft get loose I stopped
> as I didn't want the shaft to fall and other issues so
> I pulled the arm out with the shaft still attached.
> About this time Dan the airplane man comes strolling
> in to get the daily scoop. He instantly spots the
> armature with it's glisening shaft. Now I don't know
> what it is but there isn't a man out there that upon
> seeing this shaft doesn't reach out and grab it, LMAO.
> What Dan didn't know was this shaft was 365 degrees
> 8^o
>
> I see his hand going out for the grab and I'm saying
> Hot, hot, HOT about as fast as a human can make it
> happen but like a fly to a light he could not tell his
> brain to resist the power of the shaft! It wasn't a
> long embrace but one I'm sure will forever be
> remembered. I'll know more if whether or not Dan
> became the first guy to get a WZ tatoo (on the palm of
> his hand no less). Can you imagine,whats that scar
> from, Um fondling another mans shaft! OMG, funny
> shit, unless your Dan, haha.
>
> I'll give Dan credit, he didn't even wimper, then
> again maybe a smarter guy might have noticed the
> welding glooves I was wearing and the sweat beading
> down my forehead 8^)
>
> WOW breaking news, hehe. Otmar just called and he and
> a buddy are flying in to mountain bike Smith Rock and
> wanted to know if I could shuttle them there and take
> the shop nickle tour. When I told him I had the
> Siamese8 in pieces he siad he was totally there, LMAO!
>
> Would it be evil to heat the shaft back up? 8^o
> Anyway although I'm not able to attend the Power of DC
> I get to go hang out with Otmar, haha 8^P Oh and I'm
> telling him about the hampster thing to, LMAO!
>
> Had fun
> Cya
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos
> new Car Finder tool.
> http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Jim, I needed a good hard laugh. It helps take the hurt away from being
*bumped* I'll just spend the weekend schlepping
the grease off the old ugly Pinto to make room for the 3 Dutchman shafts I'll
have on the car. Poor pinto will have two in the
rear and one in a motor, heh, heh. :-O
But you go have fun mountain biking and teasing Otmar with John's shaft. Don't
be giving him any ideas either by heating it up
first. We don't need any flaming hamsters copycats popping outta Zilla's
scaring people, he he ;-) (That would actually make a
good pic too) No WZ tatoos either.
Oh yeah the UPS boy. Thats too funny. Maybe you could tell him you built
motors for the UPS' answer to Gone Postal, and that its
the fastest Brown truck in the history of the company; heh, heh. I had a
wierd one too this weekend. Pulling all the ICE junk
off the pinto and a lady walks by my house with her dog. She says "nice Pintos"
(because I have two in the driveway). Now I'm
normally not real open with people unless I know them a little. Even if they
sound nice enough I usually want to talk with them
before I start spilling my guts. In a slow motion way I kinda hear myself
saying "yeah I'm turning it into an electric dragster".
And at the same time I also hear my other side saying back to me "that probably
sounds pretty dumb to a lady walking a dog in the
pounding wind who happens to know what a Pinto is and only commented that they
were nice." After the dualing monologues in my
mind I see the lady who has already turned her head back to watching where she
was going, stop on one foot, kinda turn her head
with that "what did you say" look. Then she spun all the way around and
started walking back and said "what did you say". Kinda
freaky like I insulted her or something. I was hoping she didn't
mis-understand and think I was offering to show her my shaft
(thats only something Jim would do). Then she says "you're going to turn that
into an electric drag car?"
I affirmed to her that what she heard was correct. Big smile and she said her
and her husband were racers and were actually
trying to find an electric car to buy. She said they have a Prius right now
but wanted to go for full on efficiency. Not words
you typically hear from people claiming to be drag racers. So then it gets
even better, she tells me her son was the track
manager last year and that they go all the time, in fact they were heading
there for the season opener right after she was done
walking the dog. To wierd. She did say they were without a car last year and
for kicks took the Prius up to see that it would do
19 seconds. So she started asking questions about EV's and so I turned her
around and showed her under the hood of the
Electrabishi; answered all sorts of questions. Coool. Gave her a copy of the
C&D article and some contact info I have printed on
business cards. Sent her to Plasmaboy's site with all the videos too.
Got an e-mail from her yesterday that said she was telling everyone at the
track what I was doing and that everyone was already
psyched up to se it. So now I have to be sure to get the car going by at least
the end of the season to make an appearance at the
track.
But hey, you go ahead and enjoy your jaunts with Otmar and the boys. And leave
John's shaft at the shop. I'll finish gutting the
fugly old Pinto ;-P
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Jim Husted
> Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 7:11 PM
> To: EVDL
> Cc: Otmar
> Subject: More fun stories from the shop
>
>
> Hey all
>
> I had a couple of funny things happen down at the shop
> today. As I posted, I pressed the arms off the shaft
> on the Siamese8. I had just popped the first armature
> off and was grabbing some pics of them seperated (it
> was kinda like watching cells divide, lol). Anyway
> I've had this new UPS driver for a couple weeks now,
> but probably haven't said a dozen words to the guy as
> I've been beating cheeks 8^o. I except stuff for the
> neighbor next door and the guy came in just as I was
> grabbing some pics.
>
> He asks me "why are you taking pictures?" "so you know
> how to put it back together?" Realizing that this new
> guy didn't have a clue as to what I did I told him it
> was for an electric race car and was kind of a famous
> motor 8^) I remain grounded but I can't help getting
> a little puffy chested when talking about it with new
> folks 8^P
>
> The guy looks at me, kinda scans the shop, then gets
> this half cocked smile like I was pulling some new UPS
> recruit gag on him, hehehe. He says "seriously?",
> "Full sized cars?"
>
> Being I was sweating like a pig from hand pumping
> Waylands shaft 8^o I needed a break anyway. Now I
> know that they run the drivers like dogs but I asked
> him if he had a second and I'd smoke his mind! His
> eyes got all big like Cindy Lue Who and said you bet!
>
> I popped up a quick video of WZ just kicking the crap
> out of a Mach1 and the guy just shit! Now he's still
> a little leary of EVerything. He's looking around at
> my little rathole of a shop, and I'm showing him stuff
> that his world is flat brain can't digest quick
> enough, LMAO! I brought him into the office where I
> have a framed "Car and Driver" hung on the wall, along
> with some achievement do-hickies.
>
> Now the guys like, Okay I bought the whole race car
> thing, but Car and Driver, LMAO!!!! Ohhh God I like
> screwing with the new guys 8^o ROF! If you all saw my
> shop it'd be funnier 8^P
>
> Anyway he wanted to know where to see that video again
> so I told him where to go and then to type in
> Killacycle, LMAO! I can't wait till Monday to see if
> this kid had time to check it all out, funny stuff
> though. He said he was going to show it to all his
> friends so hopefully there will be a little extra
> intrest developed 8^)
>
> On another note and going back to the armature
> pressing. Tim had thought the armature had spun on
> the shaft which we now know was the arm hitting the
> pole shoes. John and I both wanted to make sure so I
> decided to pop the rear arm off also.
>
> I tried first leaving the arm room temp as I did for
> the first one. It had come off good but was plenty
> firm. Reversing the setup I started
> pumping....pumping, pump, ohhhh. Damn okay better
> heat it up, LMAO! I actually wanted to see because if
> it did just pop loose then indeed the arm had spun, so
> this was a good sign 8^) Okay into the oven and cook
> to 365 degrees or until a yummy golden brown, hehe.
>
> Welding glooves on, I grab that hot tator and head to
> the press, post haste! 8^o Checking to make sure that
> all is a go no go for flight I fire the old arm up
> again, pumping... pumping, pump, Ohhh, pump oh,
> puuump, okay crap, step back make sure shaft isn't
> bent over, LMAO! okay, pump... POP, Oh damn.. Oh,
> look, okay good, pump, pump 8^)
>
> Now picture this, my press has a 6" stroke so after
> every stroke I got to lift the table a hole so
> throughout this process the table went from bottom
> hole to almost the top one as the arm slid along 2
> feet of shaft 8^o
>
> Now when I finally felt the shaft get loose I stopped
> as I didn't want the shaft to fall and other issues so
> I pulled the arm out with the shaft still attached.
> About this time Dan the airplane man comes strolling
> in to get the daily scoop. He instantly spots the
> armature with it's glisening shaft. Now I don't know
> what it is but there isn't a man out there that upon
> seeing this shaft doesn't reach out and grab it, LMAO.
> What Dan didn't know was this shaft was 365 degrees
> 8^o
>
> I see his hand going out for the grab and I'm saying
> Hot, hot, HOT about as fast as a human can make it
> happen but like a fly to a light he could not tell his
> brain to resist the power of the shaft! It wasn't a
> long embrace but one I'm sure will forever be
> remembered. I'll know more if whether or not Dan
> became the first guy to get a WZ tatoo (on the palm of
> his hand no less). Can you imagine,whats that scar
> from, Um fondling another mans shaft! OMG, funny
> shit, unless your Dan, haha.
>
> I'll give Dan credit, he didn't even wimper, then
> again maybe a smarter guy might have noticed the
> welding glooves I was wearing and the sweat beading
> down my forehead 8^)
>
> WOW breaking news, hehe. Otmar just called and he and
> a buddy are flying in to mountain bike Smith Rock and
> wanted to know if I could shuttle them there and take
> the shop nickle tour. When I told him I had the
> Siamese8 in pieces he siad he was totally there, LMAO!
>
> Would it be evil to heat the shaft back up? 8^o
> Anyway although I'm not able to attend the Power of DC
> I get to go hang out with Otmar, haha 8^P Oh and I'm
> telling him about the hampster thing to, LMAO!
>
> Had fun
> Cya
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car
> Finder tool.
> http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/
>
>
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Nick Austin asked, "I'm surprised your range is only
35 miles with this setup. If your pack is 15Kwh, then
that means your using ~430Wh/Mile. Is that correct?"
My pack is currently delivering closer to 14 kWh in
its current state, and with the way I'm using it, thus
averaging ~394 Wh/mi.
Nominally at 154V average and 100 Ah, I should get
15.4 kWh. However I'm averaging >100A discharge rate,
so at .072 ohms total pack internal resistance, that's
<147V, and yes, that's 720 watts warming up my
batteries...
And I only got 94 Ah out before the first cell stayed
below 2.9V and the low voltage warning light stayed
on, which I considered to be the end of the usable
range. A couple of miles and Ah later the first cells
dropped below 2.3V and tripped the error signal, so I
guess you can say I got 96 Ah out. Almost all of the
rest of the cells were below 2.9V by then. Seems
reasonably close to me, considering what I'm doing to
them.
So 94 x 147 = only 13.8 kWh, or 394 Wh/mi at 35 miles.
Not sure how much of that 4% drop below rated Ah is
due to the high discharge rate vs. cell charging
imbalance vs. cell capacity inbalance vs. thermal
breakdown after almost a year. I am expecting 4%
capacity drop annually per their thermal breakdown
spec but hoping for less, being only ~60 degrees F
average here in Santa Rosa, CA vs. 73 degrees per
their test conditions.
I will retake these measurements every 6-12 months and
post them on my website, along with my efficiency
improvements and their impacts. The next big projects
are to get a higher ratio rear axle to get the takeoff
revs and thus efficiency up (by far most of my loss is
in acceleration), and to fix my broken clutch so I can
use it again and not loose so much precious momentum
after waiting several seconds for the motor to slow
down enough to shift.
Chris Jones
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/733
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I'd check to see if the system is really working. Many times the first
contactor will give out. That could account for the jerkey acceleration.
If you have an affair that looks like a coil spring with taps & a few
contactors they are very smooth when running well. It's just a way of going
from 0 to 15 without burning up a big contactor. It's really best to be in
the "top" contactor at all times. At any other speed you are burning amps
rather than twisting the motor. So floor it with impunity. Lawrence
Rhodes...
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Roderick at ev parts has converted many a vehicle. Even a Land Rover. The
problem is the ratio of heavy motor plus the extra batteries & bigger
controller puts the price up. There is no reason not to convert a large
vehicle. It will just cost more. Lawrence Rhodes.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Brawner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 4:53 PM
Subject: Electric Hummer
> I'm sure this idea isn't new, but I haven't been able to find anyone
> online who has done it. I would probably require very hefty parts and
> would probably cost around $20k for the conversion. But given the
> large amount of batteries that could be held, the range might not be
> to bad.
>
> The owner of full flex international converted a HUMMER H2 to run on
> pure ethanol (he brews it at home) and supposedly gets better gas
> mileage than the typical H2. The conversion cost was basically free
> (since they sell the product) and the time for the conversion took
> "about 15 minutes". He uses the vehicle largely to promote the
> product he sells. I'm not saying the electric vehicle would be this
> easy, but it would be a good way to get the name out.
>
> If you're curious about the ethanol H2 you can see a video on it.
>
> http://www.kicktheoilhabit.org/roadtrip/node/2151
>
> Anyone interested?
>
> Stephen
>
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Consider a car like the Ford Aspire last built in 1997. Dual air bags and
four seats & four doors (or two) with a nice little trunk area. Another
thought is the Aveo(sp) It's a tallish vehicle imported by GM. The
advantage of these vehicles is you can build boxes under the vehicle in the
gas tank area and make a box where the spare tire is. I got 1200 pounds of
batteries in a Ford Aspire. It''s curb weight was 2085 pounds. It had
excellent range. Other small cars 2000 or newer are getting much heavier.
Lawrence Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 6:31 PM
Subject: Question: Suitable Late Model Donor Vehicles
> Since I seem unable to find a suitable EV vehicle for my family, I'm
> considering building my own with the help of a few skilled
> individuals. I'm looking for a four door small vehicle that has at
> least a little cargo space. Something like the RAV4 EV or the Honda
> CRV.
>
> However, rather that stick batteries in every nook and cranny I'm
> thinking about building a serious battery box under the vehicle that
> can be bolted to frame under the vehicle and lowered with jacks
> should batteries ever need replacing. I look at the Honda CRV and
> see all kinds of space under that particular vehicle. However, I'm
> wondering what other vehicles I should I look at.
>
> I'm only interested in 2000 or newer vehicles and ideally vehicles
> that are less that three years old. I want something that has
> clearance to spare under the vehicle and is as light as possible. I
> might also consider a 4 door truck, but these tend to be heavier.
>
> Second, I'm wondering who I should consult with regarding the
> selection of of other components such as motor, adapter, controller,
> charger and batteries. I know of Electro Automotive, but are there
> others I should be talking to?
>
> Thanks in advance for your help.
>
> Darren
>
> --
>
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And we come again to the issue: How to get 250 kW outlets all around for
charging ?
I would say that the commercial solutions in few years will have such
capacity that they do not need to be charged in 10 minutes.
Would you think it's already possible to make a car with 600+ mile range ?
With 150 mile range I have extremely rarely needed any kind of fast
charging. Thou old habits are hard to get rid of. I automaticly plug my
EVs EVery chance I get. :)
Sure.. It's nice to have pack charged in seconds. But I have no use for
such function anymore...
-Jukka
p.s. my humble opinion...
Tehben Dean kirjoitti:
ISE and Altair Nanotechnologies in Joint Development Agreement for
Li-Ion Packs for Heavy-Duty Vehicles
1 June 2007
For the entire article:
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/06/ise_and_altair_.html#more
ISE Corporation, a developer and manufacturer of electric and
hybrid-electric drive systems and components for heavy-duty vehicles,
and Altair Nanotechnologies (Altairnano) have entered into an
agreement to jointly develop and commercially supply lithium-ion
rechargeable battery packs for use in hybrid-electric and all-electric
heavy-duty vehicles.
Under the agreement, Altairnano will provide NanoSafe cells and
batteries for the battery pack based on their proprietary lithium
titanate electrode materials, along with data concerning the proper
care and management of their cells and batteries.
ISE will design the system utilizing its data on operating
environments, vehicle shock and vibration criteria, vehicle duty
cycles and proprietary software and control electronics. Other
cooperative areas will include cell equalization and packaging of the
commercial product. The goal is to develop and commercially supply
high quality, cost-effective, lithium battery packs for heavy-duty
buses, trucks, military vehicles and airport ground support equipment.
ISE intends to continue to be a leader in the development of
energy storage solutions for heavy duty electric and hybrid electric
vehicles. We are excited to have partnered with Altairnano and feel
that Altairnano's unique nano technology yields power storage
solutions with high power and extremely long life that are ideally
suited to maximize the performance of heavy duty hybrid vehicles.
—David Mazaika, President and CEO of ISE Corporation
Altairnano currently is providing a 35 kWh lithium-ion battery pack
for the Phoenix Motorcars all-electric light-duty sport utility truck.
(Earlier post.) Separately, AeroVironment announced that it has tested
and validated Altairnano and Phoenix Motorcar’s claim that the
Altairnano battery can be recharged in less than 10 minutes without
harm to the battery.
Interesting to note what AeroVironment said about recharging the Altair
Nano batteries:
"...AeroVironment announced that it has tested and validated Altairnano
and Phoenix Motorcar’s claim that the Altairnano battery can be
recharged in less than 10 minutes without harm to the battery."
I want some of those batteries :P~
Tehben
-Lithium batteries are <accent>sweeet!</accent>... but don't think about
them, because its bad for your morale-
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150 miles would get me 1 weeks worth of driving. I could afford the time to
leave it plugged in over night once on the weekend.
Although I'd probably just plug it in every night like I do now. It only takes
10 seconds and like Jukka says the old habbit
would die hard.
Although letting go of going to the gas station was the easiest habbit I've
ever let go :-)
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Jukka Järvinen
> Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 10:28 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: ISE and Altair Nano - Li-Ion Packs for Heavy-Duty Vehicles
>
>
> And we come again to the issue: How to get 250 kW outlets all around for
> charging ?
>
> I would say that the commercial solutions in few years will have such
> capacity that they do not need to be charged in 10 minutes.
>
> Would you think it's already possible to make a car with 600+ mile range ?
>
> With 150 mile range I have extremely rarely needed any kind of fast
> charging. Thou old habits are hard to get rid of. I automaticly plug my
> EVs EVery chance I get. :)
>
> Sure.. It's nice to have pack charged in seconds. But I have no use for
> such function anymore...
>
> -Jukka
> p.s. my humble opinion...
>
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I'm using daily an EV which have curb weight about 14000lbs. And it has
only ~40 kW permanent magnet motor :) .. Lazy thing but since it's a bus
and ment for city traffic it's fairly adequate for the job. Seats for 14
and spots for 16 standers.
The bus is listed in EValbum.
Also another bus I've been involved with is sitting in China. A full 52
seater.
It's fair to say that size does not matter what it comest to conversions.
So how much Hummer weights ?
If I would get this kind of project I would throw 4 pcs of AC sets from
Brusa and 1000 lbs of Lithium at it.
-Jukka
Lawrence Rhodes kirjoitti:
Roderick at ev parts has converted many a vehicle. Even a Land Rover. The
problem is the ratio of heavy motor plus the extra batteries & bigger
controller puts the price up. There is no reason not to convert a large
vehicle. It will just cost more. Lawrence Rhodes.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Brawner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 4:53 PM
Subject: Electric Hummer
I'm sure this idea isn't new, but I haven't been able to find anyone
online who has done it. I would probably require very hefty parts and
would probably cost around $20k for the conversion. But given the
large amount of batteries that could be held, the range might not be
to bad.
The owner of full flex international converted a HUMMER H2 to run on
pure ethanol (he brews it at home) and supposedly gets better gas
mileage than the typical H2. The conversion cost was basically free
(since they sell the product) and the time for the conversion took
"about 15 minutes". He uses the vehicle largely to promote the
product he sells. I'm not saying the electric vehicle would be this
easy, but it would be a good way to get the name out.
If you're curious about the ethanol H2 you can see a video on it.
http://www.kicktheoilhabit.org/roadtrip/node/2151
Anyone interested?
Stephen
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If you're considering a serious AC system, contact me off line.
You may want to peek at metricmind.com site to see what's available,
and we can discuss your project.
Victor
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
Darren wrote:
...
Second, I'm wondering who I should consult with regarding the selection
of of other components such as motor, adapter, controller, charger and
batteries. I know of Electro Automotive, but are there others I
should be talking to?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Darren
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Hmm, I have Ian Anderson's EV controller on my bench right now.
Presumably not the same guy, but who knows :)
On 6/1/07, Marty Hewes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I have no idea what got me wondering what Ian Anderson (of Jethro Tull fame)
is up to lately, but he's got some comments about electric cars and the
american auto industry:
http://www.j-tull.com/news/diaries/iaja2007.html
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Belktronix.com
evparts.com
--- Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If you're considering a serious AC system, contact
> me off line.
> You may want to peek at metricmind.com site to see
> what's available,
> and we can discuss your project.
>
> Victor
>
> --
> Victor
> '91 ACRX - something different
>
>
> Darren wrote:
> ...
> > Second, I'm wondering who I should consult with
> regarding the selection
> > of of other components such as motor, adapter,
> controller, charger and
> > batteries. I know of Electro Automotive, but
> are there others I
> > should be talking to?
> >
> > Thanks in advance for your help.
> >
> > Darren
> >
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search
that gives answers, not web links.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
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Hello to All,
Chris Jones wrote:
I wouldn't suggest a lead acid Mustang conversion --
your range would either be closer to only 10 miles
10 miles range?
Counter point...the '65 Mustang I helped design and build back in '95
that is featured in the EV Photo Album, was lead acid powered with an
860 lb. pack of 10 Trojan 5SHP 12V batteries, a 9 inch ADC motor/Curtis
combo, and American Racing coke bottle mags fitted with 'Ecology' low
rolling resistance tires. The 5SHP is rated to deliver 75 amps for 78
minutes, and our pack pretty much matched that stat. At a steady 35 mph
our Stang drew about 75-85 amps from its 120V pack, and of course it
sucked higher amps during acceleration from stop lights up to that
speed. One hour at suburban speeds of 35 mph is 35 miles, so you can see
how the math worked out. I personally tested this car and got 41 miles
to about an 80% depth of discharge, at admittedly a slow 35 mph cruise
on a warm day. It got an easy 25 miles range 'just driving' it around,
including some spirited freeway runs to down-town and back. Twelve years
ago when our EV meetings were held 26 miles away in the town of
Tualitan, we used to take the electric Stang from east Portland there
and back (with a high current recharge during the meeting), a 52 mile
round trip, all at 55-65 mph freeway speeds on I-205.
...or it would be overloaded to the point where I don't
think it would handle very well and could be unsafe,
and would probably require significant modification.
'Mustang Illustrated' magazine featured our electric Mustang in their
Nov. '95 issue, where the reporter/Mustang expert enthusiast raved about
the way the car handled due to the careful attention to the battery
weight distribution and the suspension mods we designed into the
project. We wanted the car to brake 'better' than stock and accomplished
this by grafting-in beefy 1970 Torino GT 11.5 inch front disc brakes in
place of the wimpy drum front brakes. We wanted it to handle 'better'
than stock, so we balanced the pack's weight front-to-rear, placed the
batteries as low as we could for the best CG, had a custom spring shop
make up a set of special front coils and rear leafs for the car, and
added a fat Quickor Engineering 1.25 inch front sway bar.
Convertible Mustangs are nearly 200 lbs. heavier than a non-convertible
type. Our Mustang started off life as a light weight 6 cylinder model
(something we actually searched for it over the heavier V8 model) and
even minus the benefit of having super light weight lithiums, it came in
weighing 3240 lbs. as the lead acid electric version.
Our car was built way back in '95, so it used Curtis controller (the
original 1221B model that was thankfully, silent in operation) and had
generic Trojan floor scrubber batteries, but it could hit 85 mph on the
freeway, it handled like a roller skate, and it braked very well. It
would be fun to take the same car today, and equip it with a Zilla Z2K,
a Siamese 9, and a feisty pack of A123 cells. The l-o-n-g Siamese 9
would look awesome stretched out under the Mustang's shapely hood, the
0-60 would embarrass a V8 Mustang and be in the mid 4 second range, and
it could have an easy 100 mile range...what fun that would be! A more
affordable version could use a single 9 inch, a Zilla Z1K, and yes, the
same Trojan 5SHP batteries to give a fun electric Mustang with decent
acceleration and a usable around town type 30-35 miles range.
See Ya.....John Wayland
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At 11:17 PM 6/1/2007, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
I'd check to see if the system is really working. Many times the first
contactor will give out. That could account for the jerkey acceleration.
I'll have to check it in detail, but I remember seeing only 1
contactor, and it did look like a multi-tap resistor.
If you have an affair that looks like a coil spring with taps & a few
contactors they are very smooth when running well. It's just a way of going
from 0 to 15 without burning up a big contactor. It's really best to be in
the "top" contactor at all times. At any other speed you are burning amps
rather than twisting the motor. So floor it with impunity.
Except this is being driven mostly by my mother, and she doesn't want
to go fast.
And I wonder about the resistance of the small gauge battery
wires. This thing is rather sluggish when going up the driveway -
which is a gentle uphill.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
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just an idea, can a controller work without caps? is there some
electronics reason why it would kill the controller to not have capacitors?
Depends on the type of controller and the speed of the
switching devices. Without those caps, though, it can be
a bit hard on the battery. Obviously a contactor controller
doesn't need them. SCR controllers may or may not need them
but modern MOSFET and IGBT controllers do. The ringing from
switching the MOSFET or IGBT on and off quickly will
eventually damage the devices without those caps. Also,
the batteries would prefer to see an average current draw
rather than lots of spikes. Finally, EMI constraints (not
thrashing every AM radio within blocks) is important too.
The slower the switching device, the less important it is
from an EMI view as well. If you have regen (sepex, BLDC, ACIM)
then those caps are critically important. If you blow a fuse
or open your contactor while under regen, the energy stored in
the motor needs to be able to comfortably fit in those caps
without exceeding the breakdown voltages of either the caps or
the drive stage semiconductors, or you'll be replacing lots
of parts. I've got a Solectria BLDC drive on my workbench
that met such a fate. It ain't pretty, and it ain't cheap
to repair.
-Dale
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I generally agree, although outlets capable of supplying the juice are
available in any industrial zone in the US and presumably also in the
rest of the developed world.
The real benefit of ten minute recharge is not one of practicality as
it is marketing. The general uninformed public still thinks they have
to be able to fill up in ten minutes, having that capability removes
an obstacle in the customers mind, whether or not they ever use it is
another matter.
And then there's the CARB 10 minute recharge requirement that seemed
to be intended to keep BEV from getting full ZEV credits.
My personal opinion is that 1 hour recharge is far more practical,
stop for lunch and fill up your car. It would keep the current at a
level that's more in line with what the batteries and associated power
systems normally would see on discharge, reducing the risk of
catastrophic failures.
On 6/1/07, Jukka Järvinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
And we come again to the issue: How to get 250 kW outlets all around for
charging ?
I would say that the commercial solutions in few years will have such
capacity that they do not need to be charged in 10 minutes.
Would you think it's already possible to make a car with 600+ mile range ?
With 150 mile range I have extremely rarely needed any kind of fast
charging. Thou old habits are hard to get rid of. I automaticly plug my
EVs EVery chance I get. :)
Sure.. It's nice to have pack charged in seconds. But I have no use for
such function anymore...
-Jukka
p.s. my humble opinion...
Tehben Dean kirjoitti:
>> ISE and Altair Nanotechnologies in Joint Development Agreement for
>> Li-Ion Packs for Heavy-Duty Vehicles
>> 1 June 2007
>
> For the entire article:
> http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/06/ise_and_altair_.html#more
>
>> ISE Corporation, a developer and manufacturer of electric and
>> hybrid-electric drive systems and components for heavy-duty vehicles,
>> and Altair Nanotechnologies (Altairnano) have entered into an
>> agreement to jointly develop and commercially supply lithium-ion
>> rechargeable battery packs for use in hybrid-electric and all-electric
>> heavy-duty vehicles.
>>
>> Under the agreement, Altairnano will provide NanoSafe cells and
>> batteries for the battery pack based on their proprietary lithium
>> titanate electrode materials, along with data concerning the proper
>> care and management of their cells and batteries.
>>
>> ISE will design the system utilizing its data on operating
>> environments, vehicle shock and vibration criteria, vehicle duty
>> cycles and proprietary software and control electronics. Other
>> cooperative areas will include cell equalization and packaging of the
>> commercial product. The goal is to develop and commercially supply
>> high quality, cost-effective, lithium battery packs for heavy-duty
>> buses, trucks, military vehicles and airport ground support equipment.
>>
>> ISE intends to continue to be a leader in the development of
>> energy storage solutions for heavy duty electric and hybrid electric
>> vehicles. We are excited to have partnered with Altairnano and feel
>> that Altairnano's unique nano technology yields power storage
>> solutions with high power and extremely long life that are ideally
>> suited to maximize the performance of heavy duty hybrid vehicles.
>> —David Mazaika, President and CEO of ISE Corporation
>>
>> Altairnano currently is providing a 35 kWh lithium-ion battery pack
>> for the Phoenix Motorcars all-electric light-duty sport utility truck.
>> (Earlier post.) Separately, AeroVironment announced that it has tested
>> and validated Altairnano and Phoenix Motorcar's claim that the
>> Altairnano battery can be recharged in less than 10 minutes without
>> harm to the battery.
>
> Interesting to note what AeroVironment said about recharging the Altair
> Nano batteries:
> "...AeroVironment announced that it has tested and validated Altairnano
> and Phoenix Motorcar's claim that the Altairnano battery can be
> recharged in less than 10 minutes without harm to the battery."
>
> I want some of those batteries :P~
>
> Tehben
> -Lithium batteries are <accent>sweeet!</accent>... but don't think about
> them, because its bad for your morale-
>
>
>
>
--
www.electric-lemon.com
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