EV Digest 6841
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Why is there a delay of 1 hour on my messages??
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Car Trailer Rental
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Car Trailer Rental
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: 95 BMW 525i conversion
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Car Trailer Rental
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: ISE and Altair Nano - now grid stabilization
by "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Hanging with the Zillaman part2
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Car Trailer Rental
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Why is there a delay of 1 hour on my messages??
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Hangin' with the Motor Dog was (RE: Hanging with the Zillaman part2)
long and mostly OT
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Car Trailer Rental
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Power of DC - Sunday's Pool Party (the drag race)
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: ISE and Altair Nano - Li-Ion Packs for Heavy-Duty Vehicles
by Frank John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE;Prius Project
by Tom Gocze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Power of DC - Sunday's Pool Party (the drag race)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 11:28 PM
Subject: Re: Why is there a delay of 1 hour on my messages??
I don't know, but you're not the only one. Listproc apparently gets in a
snit
now and then. For example, I might send 3 posts in one smtp transaction.
Two might cross the list within 5-10 minutes, and the other might take
hours.
(Of course this doesn't always happen, but it HAS happened a couple of
times.)
I suspect that this is part of an antispam strategy, and that certain
mysterious keywords or phrases in either an address or a message body
raise Listproc's suspicion. Every now and then it seems to hold a message
for a while, perhaps (guessing here) waiting to see if you send anything
else
that looks like spam; if you don't, it sends the message on through.
Again
this is pure conjecture on my part, so don't take it too seriously.
Remember, gang, Listproc is on its way out at SJSU. Patience. Soon we'll
dispense with all of Listproc's bugs and discover a whole new set of
Mailman
bugs. ;-)
David Roden
EVDL Administrator
http://www.evdl.org/
Hi EVerybody;;
All things considered List Proc has served us well, over the years, and
the price was right. If it takes a bit of time to get 'er done, it's
probably because the Net's pipelines are full of shit(Spam) all the time.
They DID bust one spammer, did ya see that in the paper the other day? Now
IF we could filter out those Cyrilic ones that WHY to they send them to US?
Couldn't read it if I cared to open it, anyhow!?Probably 100 or more
spammers rose up to replace THAT guy?
Back to stuff we CAN do.
Seeya
Bob
What IS it with people that crap up such a great medium?Gotta be a
reserved space in Hell for them!
--
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.7/830 - Release Date: 6/3/2007
12:47 PM
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Willmon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 11:37 PM
Subject: RE: Car Trailer Rental
I have a question about those. Is a car dynamically stable going
backwards. If you back a car with one of those tow bars, will the front
tires steer the way you move them with the tow vehicle? In other words,
when backing does it steer just like a trailer, or is it difficult?
I've only towed big 30 ft trailers with my 1-ton. Never a car on all 4
wheels with a tow bar. Tow rope yes, but you can't back with one of those
:-O
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
Hi Mike an All;
You CAN back a tow-bared car, VERY carefully. You sorta unlearn all you
know about backing trailers, though! You hafta stear it very small
incriments or it will cut sharp and bind up. You go ahead again and
streighten out and try again.And AGAIN. @#$% AGAIN! I got "Parked in" at a
motel in Frankfort Ill, a few years ago, and had to work myself out of the
lot in reverse! I guess I coulda unhooked the car but that woulda been
unsporting<G>!It is the Opposite of backing a trailer! Wierd, but, with a
hellovs lot of patience ya will get it!
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 5:39 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Car Trailer Rental
How about a tow bar attached to the front of the car? Some of the ones
sold for towing a car behind an RV fold up and
can be left attached to the car.
Also good for pulling stumps with yur EV! Wrap the chain around the
stump and towbar, it transmits the power directly to the stump!In reverse,
yur strongist gear, pulls them right out!
Seeya
Bob
>> Bill
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.7/830 - Release Date: 6/3/2007
12:47 PM
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
While it's /possible/ to back a car up that's being towed with a tow bar,
it takes a lot of skill and even then you're usually limited to short
distances, and straight lines or limited curves.
It's usually easier to remove it and back it up separately.
> I have a question about those. Is a car dynamically stable going
> backwards. If you back a car with one of those tow bars, will the front
> tires steer the way you move them with the tow vehicle? In other words,
> when backing does it steer just like a trailer, or is it difficult?
>
> I've only towed big 30 ft trailers with my 1-ton. Never a car on all 4
> wheels with a tow bar. Tow rope yes, but you can't back with one of those
> :-O
>
> Mike,
> Anchorage, Ak.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 5:39 PM
>> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>> Subject: Re: Car Trailer Rental
>>
>>
>> How about a tow bar attached to the front of the car? Some of the ones
>> sold for towing a car behind an RV fold up and
>> can be left attached to the car.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Wayland wrote:
> So the answer is 'yes', the 300V AC system at an estimated
> 165 ft. lbs. of torque will not match the DC system at
> 300 ft. lbs. of torque, where both motors make about the same hp.
What John is conveniently overlooking here is that it is the torque at
the wheels that is of interest, not at the 'crank'. The AC motor has a
redline about 2x that of the 9" ADC, so it can be geared for 2x the
torque multiplication and still deliver the same top speed. 2x the
torque multiplication means that either system will accelerate the car
similarly since the torque at the wheel will be the same.
Can't argue about the cost differential, but as Victor would observe,
you do get what you pay for (in this case regen, liquid-cooled brushless
motor, and more configurable controller parameters than you can shake a
stick at ;^). The same dollars spend on DC would undoubtedly yield
greater HP with fewer frills.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> While it's /possible/ to back a car up that's being towed
> with a tow bar, it takes a lot of skill and even then
> you're usually limited to short distances, and straight
> lines or limited curves.
>
> It's usually easier to remove it and back it up separately.
I have to second this. I flat tow my EV, and will unhook it and drive
it into the driveway on its own if at all possible. No matter how many
attempts I make at it, I simply can't make a gentle enough arc to get it
backed into my driveway well enough to have it and the tow vehicle off
the street. And my driveway is 2 cars wide.
The front wheels will simply flop over to one lock and then the tow
vehicle just pushes them and the front of the car sideways if one tries
to continue with the brute force approach. Tows great forward.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 6/5/07, john fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Thats an interesting idea. Batteries look expensive until you price a gas
turbine.
Another market might be co-generation-stabilization and emergency power.
Permitting diesel gensets is getting harder
with the air pollution agencies, and they are notoriously unreliable due mostly
to improper maintenance and testing.
Is anyone working on this Jukka?
JF
They are doing this with flywheels, which is a much better stationary
storage unit than batteries ( almost no maintenance, no cycle life
issues, good energy & power density )
See http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/09/california_ener.html for example
similar units ( 25kwh ) can be used as fast charge stations for EVs
-kert
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey all
Lets see where was I... that's right, I'm waiting
outside the Batcave and or being punked by Wayland.
All kidding aside I wasn't there but a couple minutes
when I hear Otmar call out my name 8^) (hope God
doesn't hold me to all those promises I made for
getting me out of that jam, LMAO)
Otmar and a lady friend wheeled out their mountain
bikes and we loaded them into the truck with your
basic intros. To my disgrace I have forgotten her
name 8^( and so have decided to call her lady X which
kinda works 8^)
Ot asked me if I was up to lunch, where as I didn't
much care. Lunch, shop, mountain, shop, where EVer,
but lunch it was 8^) Now I didn't want to cause
immediate eye glaze-over concerning Lady X so I played
it cool, or so I tried 8^) A friend I know was at the
place we stopped to eat told me later I was like some
mad freak, flailing my arms as spittle shot from my
mouth 8^o It's all but a blur now as topics were
varied and numerous.
Our waitress was new so she really didn't have a clue
to a couple questions asked by Otmar and Lady X who
then ribbed her a little on it. What was funny was
when she got back in their face with some witty
comebacks 8^) It was my first time there and it
wasn't what I thought it would be but at least it was
close to the shop 8^) Before we left Ot told me the
if it wasn't for Wayland you'd all be buying
controllers named "the brick" story.
Having finished my spittle attack on Ot and Lady X we
proceeded to the shop, about 2 blocks away. I warned
them to not touch anything inside "my" bat cave,
unless they didn't care about getting a dirt smears
that won't wash off for two years, LMAO! Lady X was
particularly careful ROF
Inside I was able to show Ot all the cool stuff going
on in varied stages throughout the shop, which I do
admit looks like 1250 sq ft of motor roadkill to the
untrained eye 8^P Winding down the nickel tour Otmar
saw my baby Siamese6 arm assy waiting patiently to be
balanced (its forklift motor balanced lets say but I
want it to go Ahhh, lol) Anyway I think that one was
Otmars favorite ones to Damon, he even touched it 8^)
Hey Waggoner, what you think a "touched by Otmar
motor" would sell for on Ebay, LMAO. Honestly it was
awesome to talk shop with Ot and I could have in fact
asked him questions for 12 hours without pause. I
sensed Lady X about to glaze over so we headed off for
Smith Rock where it's clean, and she could breathe
again, LMAO.
We said our good byes where I told them to call if
they wanted a ride back as they kept the option to
just ride the bikes back. They couldn't have picked a
better day to have flown over here, just an awesome
day. I drove home somewhat euphoric and somewhat
glazed myself as my brain digested Zilla wisdom 8^o
I'd no sooner got home that it seemed the clouds
started forming which is nice as they cool the
evenings down which it had done the last few days.
Within a few hours it was like Gilligan's Island, the
weather started getting rough type action. Wind start
howling, rain just pounding down. I'm like mentally
telling them just call me and I'll jam right there as
I'm watching this awesome thunderstorm roar outside my
back door.
It all died down as fast as it had appeared and the
day was again calm and fair like nothing had happened.
Hours later just before sunset I get a call from Ot,
they were running late and wanted to know if I was
still okay with a pick up. I told him, 1 Zilla to go,
on it's way 8^) As my wife Amy had just asked if I'd
heard from them I was curious as to how they weathered
the downpour.
They had holed up under a ledge through the hardest
period and made it through just spiffy no worse the
wear 8^) I got them to the airport where they had the
most beautiful sunset filled return flight through the
Cascade mountains.
As for me I had a great time. Otmar is truly just fun
to hang out with and Lady X was also a delight.
I'll tell you this much, it sure beat getting punked
by Wayland 8^)
Had fun
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search
that gives answers, not web links.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks all. I figured as much. I guess it the same reason you don't see cars
doing 55mph down the road in reverse (well one of
the reasons). I kinda pictured like one of those farm tractors that the front
axle pivots like a Red Ryder Wagon. Instead of
steering opposite like you do when backing a regular trailer, you have to steer
in the same direction you want to trailer to go,
but then when you get it turning you have to steer opposite to slow the turn.
Double confusing.
I ask because I have will have a carcas of a Pinto to haul away to the junk
yard when I get done using it for parts for my other
one.
thanks
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Roger Stockton
> Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 9:54 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: RE: Car Trailer Rental
>
>
> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>
> > While it's /possible/ to back a car up that's being towed
> > with a tow bar, it takes a lot of skill and even then
> > you're usually limited to short distances, and straight
> > lines or limited curves.
> >
> > It's usually easier to remove it and back it up separately.
>
> I have to second this. I flat tow my EV, and will unhook it and drive
> it into the driveway on its own if at all possible. No matter how many
> attempts I make at it, I simply can't make a gentle enough arc to get it
> backed into my driveway well enough to have it and the tow vehicle off
> the street. And my driveway is 2 cars wide.
>
> The front wheels will simply flop over to one lock and then the tow
> vehicle just pushes them and the front of the car sideways if one tries
> to continue with the brute force approach. Tows great forward.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Happening to all mine on all groups too.
On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 8:33 pm, Dan Frederiksen wrote:
what gives..
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily images about hurricanes, globalwarming
and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake images.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dude, Jim, you tell a mean story. 37 cups of coffee before breakfast?? How
many for lunch? You must have one of those 5 gallon
coffee makers at home AND at the office ;-) That or you keep the 7-11 in
business. They probably don't need to sell gas. But
hey let me tell you a story of when the Motor Dog came to Alaska. "Dude, my
sister lives there I'm coming to visit you". So here
I am all stoked I haven't even heard all the cool motor stories I've heard
since the visit and I was already stoked. But hey Jim
Husted's coming to town. I better let all the motor shops in town know just in
case they want to come along and meet the man. Of
course I've hit them all and these guys barely even know what a DC motor is.
They told me they don't see them much and they're
not worth rebuilding (that reminds me, I gotta get access to their dumpsters).
Sorry about that part Jim. I didn't mean to
forget to tell them you were coming. I just figured there's be more motor
brain for me to pick if I didn't invite the groupies.
So here I am waiting for Jim to call or come by. I can't remember if he gave
me a batphone number or not. I'd have been to wuss
to call anyway. So after a couple days I get an e-mail. "Dude I'm having so
much fun, uh-hem, I mean, my Drill Seargent Sister
has us on the Alaska Boot Camp schedule, and well I don't even have time to
visit." So I figure he's getting the cheechako tour
of Alaska. I bet he even drove down to visit the Portage Glacier, or ate at
Gwennies or the Sourdough Mining Company. (They all
serve coffee you know;-) But the one place I'm sure he didn't visit was Kaladi
Brothers coffee roasting facility where Alaska
roasts their own coffee bean blends. Of course thats where we hold our Alaska
EVA meetings. But alas, no Jim. Next e-mail I get
"Dude I made it home, and boy am I beat" and something about nine 22 hour days.
Whats wrong Jimmy boy? Couldn't find enough
coffee to make it the extra 2 hours each day? I'm sure there was still plenty
of sunlight the end of July ;-P "I couldn't do
anything *I* wanted, my sister just whipped me all around on her own tour"
(Jim is Cheryl older than you or something?)
(Cheryl if you're reading I know Jim wanted to do all that stuff himself) I
can see it all, her laying it all out for little
brother. All righty now little Jimmy, your at my place now. None of that EV
motor stuff, you gotta gut some caribou, split fish,
pick berries and rhubard to fill my freezer, raft the Yukon, wrestle some bears
then you'll be lean and green enough to stay with
me. You'll be back a sourghdough next time you stay with me little brother!
So little newbie EV me gets punked by the Motor Dog. I knew I shouldn't have
wasted 9 days of leave waiting up for Jim :-O
(kidding) At least Wayland let me visit him at his place of business (for 20
minutes) while he was up here. He even touched my
truck, woo hoo. (try to sell it on e-bay I will) Thats why Jim, I want you to
sign my motors when you are done with them. You
ever come up here and don't stop by to drink my coffee like you threatened,
I'll put those babies up on e-bay with an sell them
to the first $1 bid I get. (OK well, maybe a little more than that, but you see
where I'm going)
Sure wish Otmar would come visit me ;-) We have more bike trails than Oregon.
They're EVen interactive. Better be in good shape
to outrun the moose though. Don't even try to outrun the bears on your bike.
Better to crawl under it and write it off.
But hey, the coffee pots done brewin', I better get back to work on the Pinto
so it'll be ready when my motors show up from Jim
;-P BTW Jim, thanx for the pics of the motors. Looks like they're begining
their new life with a proper Hi-Torque boot camp.
Just don't make fun of they're crusty shafts. I can't afford hi-test chromium
shanks.
Later,
Mike
Punked in Alaska
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Jim Husted
> Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 10:33 PM
> To: EVDL
> Subject: Hanging with the Zillaman part2
>
>
> Hey all
>
> Lets see where was I... that's right, I'm waiting
> outside the Batcave and or being punked by Wayland.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 6/5/07, Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> While it's /possible/ to back a car up that's being towed
> with a tow bar, it takes a lot of skill and even then
> you're usually limited to short distances, and straight
> lines or limited curves.
>
> It's usually easier to remove it and back it up separately.
I have to second this. I flat tow my EV, and will unhook it and drive
it into the driveway on its own if at all possible. No matter how many
attempts I make at it, I simply can't make a gentle enough arc to get it
backed into my driveway well enough to have it and the tow vehicle off
the street. And my driveway is 2 cars wide.
I find that if you use the steering lock to hold the towed car's
wheels straight, you can then back up a short distance in reverse, in
a straight line. Handy for getting out of filling stations!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, as you know the drag race ended up being a washout. I was
hoping the rain would hold off a few hours and it did for awhile in
the morning but after the gates opened at 11:00 am it started
sprinkling.
It stopped for about an hour so the track decided to race. I put off
setting up the Power of DC stuff and concentrated on getting the car
off the trailer and into tech before it started to rain again. I went
around to all the racers in the pits and told them we should all get
to tech ASAP so we could at least get a couple runs in. Since this
was a Test and Tune we were sharing the track with the gassers and
the turnout for them was pretty light, maybe 12 cars at the most.
Most stayed home because of the weather.
Darin was busy hooking up the new spider box he made to the
generator. He did a great job building this work of art. He had a
circuit breaker panel in the middle mounted on a board. On the right
side of the panel were 8 120 volt outlets and on the left side were 2
240 volt outlets and 4 big cables coming out to attach to the
generator. He also had a tool box filled with several different 240
volt outlets and plugs so we could adapt to the specific needs of the
240 volt folks. It hooked up flawlesly. The mid-Atlantic coast now
has it's own Spider Box. Before he left he handed the panel over to
me and said "Here you go" Thanks Darin!!! I tell you the EV community
really pulls together.
For those who don't know. We've been shipping "Big Blue", the blue
spider box (distribution panel for the generator) across the country
for the NEDRA events for at least 3 years now. It's been traversing
back and forth to Chicago, Florida, Maryland, and Oregon. John
Wayland had it stowed in his garage so he sent it out to our event so
we used it on Saturday and used Darin's new box on Sunday. But now
"Big Blue" can stay home for awhile now.
Shawn Lawless was there with two trailers. One carrying the OJ
dragster and the AGNuS motorcycle and the other carrying the Nash
Electropolitan. Shawn actually left for Hong Kong this past Wednesday
and arrived home Saturday night. As soon as he got home he went to
his shop to finish putting the vehicles together and loaded
everything up and didn't get home till 3:00 am then they left Ohio
for Maryland at 6:30 am for the 5 hour drive to the track. Talk about
cutting it close.
Shawn was anxious to try out all the new mods. He put new batteries
in OJ. The Nash got a new driveshaft to replace the broken one from
the previous week's record attempt. And AGNuS got a new battery pack.
Get this, 36 28-volt Milwaukee V-28 battery packs stacked in three
tiers in the bike's frame. Brings back memories from last year's
Monster Garage episode. Thick copper bus bars attaching all the
battery packs together. A Zilla with a hairball and two permanent
magnet motors directly mounted on either side of a go-kart tire
slick. A work of art. Shawn was going to try for the NEDRA 168 volt
Motorcycle record. And wanted to get back the 96 volt record with the
Nash. I believe OJ was running at 240 volts.
Dave Cover arrived and set up his tent and got his 944 Porsche ready.
I'm hoping he can tell more folks about it. I was really wanting to
see his car drag race since he did so well in the AutoCross.
Larry Jarboe arrived with the Great Mills Green Hornet MR2. The kids
were really anxious to race and telling me all the mods they made to
the car from the previous year.
Darin Gilbert had set up his tent and the Pirahna motorcycle was
sporting a new wheelie bar. The bike looked great. Darin had really
refined this machine. I know he was anxious to try it out at 96 volts.
The West Virginia University team arrived but they left the car in
the trailer since it was still not running. Roy Nutter suspects the
motor could be the problem and the students are still figuring it
out. So it wasn't going to run at all this weekend.
My car. well I haven' done anything to it in a few years. Although it
has an XP-1227, 55s all around and I race it with Optima Red Tops the
Raptor 600 is limiting the speed. So I need to think about an upgrade
at some point. I never did get a chance to fully charge the car after
the AutoCross Saturday because "Big Blue's" 4 120 volt outlets were
taken up most of the day. So my batteries were sitting at 12.36
volts. Not good. The car had plenty of energy to get through the
AutoCross, but it needed a bit more capacity to make sustained 1/4
mile passes.
Other EVA/DCers were Joe Lado with his Fiero and Mike Harvey who
decided to leave his car on the trailer due to the rain.
Most of our visitors from the previous day were there. Dennis Pestka
had traveled from St Louis and arrived on Sunday. He had brought 36
feet of 4/0 Carol Super Vu-Tron wire to give away.
A reporter from the Washington Post was there. He talked to all the
drivers. But he didn't have a photographer with him. There actually
wasn't much to write about since the event was pretty much going to
be a wash out and I didn't see anything in Monday's Post. Getting our
story bumped isn't unusual anyway. Last year the Washington Post was
going to do an article on the race for their Style section and they
did the interviews but the reporter ran her article on a Woman who
owned a Hummer instead. Arggh!! She told me it was the Editor's
decision. It is a disapointment, but I'm getting used to it. What's
really disappointing is they come to us first. So we get our hopes
up. Then we're bumped.
This happened twice with the Great Mills Team this year. The
Discovery Channel called in February to do a story on our race. They
even took me out to lunch to discuss the project. I suggested they do
something on the Great Mills new car they were planning to build.
Everything was planned until the management shakeup at Discovery and
the project was cancelled a week before filming was to begin. Then
later in February a producer from the History Channel calls. He
wanted to do something similar. So we arrange the same thing again
with the Great Mills Team but before the filming begins the History
Channel pulls the project. The upper management at the History
Channel, which includes the owners son is apparently a big Baja
racing enthusiast and electrics just aren't that exciting to him.
Whatever. So after being burned by two cable networks, the kids at
Great Mills decided to document the conversion themselves. More power
to them. Like I mentioned before, they approach us then pull the rug
out at the last minute.
But at least Channel 25 was there the day before so that was cool.
I guess we had had our day in the sun when the Canadian Discovery
Channel show, The Daily Planet filmed the race in 2005. The planets
were all aligned that day.
Anyway back to the race before the flood.
Joe Lado's Fiero was the first to get inspected so I hurridly got my
car up to the inspection line and was the 4th in line behind a couple
Mustangs. As usual, the electrics were a curiosity. The inspector guy
remembered my car from the previous year's races so I quickly got
passed through inspection and went back to the pits to wait for us to
be called. They called us once already but alot of folks were still
setting up.
At that point my daughter was getting bored so my wife Monica took
her to the Outlet Mall in town. My son Jake camped out in the truck
playing video games after being yelled at by the track troll for
riding his scooter in the pits. He's still angry about it.
The track officials called us again so I rushed up to the staging
lanes. Joe was already there. There are 6 staging lanes and the track
lets us line up in the first 2. They let a few gassers go and it was
our turn.
Joe lined up in the left lane and I lined up in the right. This was
Joe's first time drag racing so that was quite a thrill for him. We
took off and that was the only run the electrics made that day.
I went back to charge the car and that is when it started to rain
again. After an hour the track cancelled racing for the day. The
track was too saturated to dry off at this point.
All the gassers packed up and left so it was just us left at track. I
think the track owners even left so we had the whole place to ourselves.
The rain slowed for a bit so Shawn and Darin decided to do some
burnouts in the pits. OJ's driver go suited up and did some cool
burnouts and short runs in the pits. Darin did a cool burnout with
his Pirahna. Kind of reminded me of the Joliet event that got
cancelled in May 2006. We just relocated to a Pep Boys parking lot
and hung out there and the guys did burnouts in the parking lot.
The highlight of the day for me was when Shawn called me over and
asked if I wanted to try out AGNuS. Now, this was the motorcycle that
had done 106 mph two weeks before and has 4 consecutive NEDRA records
and has a new set of V-28 batteries on board that hasn't even been
tested yet on the track so I was like "Wow!" Being an electric
scooter guy I recognized the throttle on the bike was a Magura which
I use all the time so I that was familiar and Shawn said the bike was
solid and predictable so I suited up and rode the bike around the
pits. I opened it up on one stretch of the pits and the bike felt
great. It's really low to the ground and actually did feel more in
control at the higher speeds. So that was a real treat for me. Then
he let me drive the Nash around the pits. That was cool.
It started to rain harder so we put some of the tents together to
make a larger area for people to congregate under while we held the
raffles and thanked everyone for coming out. Thanks to Jim Husted for
building that beautiful motor we gave away. Joe Lado won it.
As we were just about ready to leave the track, Bryan Murtha, who
owns a RAV-4 EV pulled up. He had hoped to make it for the event but
had a wedding to go to and decided at the last minute to come up
after the wedding. He had just driven the RAV-4 80 miles from
Southern Maryland to the event and needed a quick charge to get back
home. So we got him hooked up. Bob Rice wired up the outlet to the
generator and we cranked it up. Satisfied that the RAV was taking a
charge we headed out to our usual haunt, Ledo's Pizza, to have dinner
and dry out. Bob Rice was there, as well as my family, the Lado
family, Dave Davidson, Bryan Murtha and Big John, one of our EVA/DC
members and a train engine mechanic.
Thanks for everyone coming out. Maybe we'll plan next year's race
before hurricane season. In retrospect, we went 6 years without a
rain delay or cancellation.
We'll get pictures up as soon as we can.
Chip Gribben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I suspect that flow batteries (ex. vanadium redox) could work in this
application; they're already in use as load levelers in different places.
----- Original Message ----
From: Jukka Järvinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Monday, June 4, 2007 7:02:35 PM
Subject: Re: ISE and Altair Nano - Li-Ion Packs for Heavy-Duty Vehicles
Yes. yes. I'm not saying it's not doable but it will not be cheap and
actually I have strong feeling that they are not even needed.
I have done my self a 100 kWh Lion pack for power leveling. Impullses up
to 1 MW were possible to take out of it.
Making it good and several units you'll get price down to $100k. So how
many would be required in a mid sized town ? 300 perhaps ?
There is thou another side of the coin. What if those stations would
work as integrated stabilization components to the grid at the same time
?? Now .. that would lower the cost since there is another payer. If the
grid fails these units could provide electricity to the nearby houses
and industry. One 20" container could hold nicely 2MWh of energy. Hm...
-Jukka
Kaido Kert kirjoitti:
> On 6/2/07, Jukka Järvinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> And we come again to the issue: How to get 250 kW outlets all around for
>> charging ?
>
> you get it without modifying the grid, by using any stationary energy
> storage system. Flywheels or a set of similar high-discharge capable
> and long life batteries would fit the bill.
>
> -kert
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Got a little couch potato?
Check out fun summer activities for kids.
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=summer+activities+for+kids&cs=bz
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Guys,
I am surprised at the cost. Fortunately, mechanics are nervous about
dealing with them, and they go for about this amount!!
It is a Gen 2. The Toyota manuals for these cars are around $400, but
cover everything.
Wouldn't it be funny to pull the ICE and install a DC motor---AC/DC
EV. Think of the theme music in the CD player!
I buy salvage vehicles all the time up here. We have fewer cars and
nothing like the limits you have in Florida. I just fill out a form
when done, as to what I
fix and replace and get it inspected at the local garage. It is a
great way to find gliders for EV's.
BTW, we should finally have the rest of the contactor controller
stuff finished in a day or so, the webmaster's boyfriend showed up
this weekend and all progress stopped until he left. She is
converting the 70mb of images into PDFs.
Tom in Maine
Hi Tom, Brandon and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Brandon Kruger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Prius project
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 18:43:47 -0500
You are a lucky, lucky man. Wish I could find a deal like
that. Is the '04 model a Gen1 or Gen2? I believe you would
have a lot more luck converting a Gen2 Prius to plug-in
than a Gen1.
--
Brandon Kruger
http://bmk789.googlepages.com
http://cafepress.com/altfuel
On 6/4/07, Tom Gocze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Well, I bought an '04 Prius for my long distance runs.
Been looking over the innards of them and I really am
amazed at the construction of the transaxle, which also
contains the two electric motors. Seems like something to
play with some day if the ICE ever died.
The other reason I got a Prius is that it is a salvage
vehicle, having been in a front end accident.
In Fla, if it has a salvage title because the
body/frame was bent, you can't use it's body in any future
car as they won't issue you a title on it.
So check your local DOT about this before putting
money down on these. I sure would like to get my hands on
a couple of those e motors.
Jerry Dycus
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chip,
Regardless of the rain it was still worth the trip to get a shot at the
Power of DC event. I would bet that Sunday's event had the largest
turnout ever for NEDRA. Thanks for all your hard work (and everyone
else's) putting it together. I'm still bummed out that we couldn't run
but if the rain clears in Ohio by tomorrow we will have a sudo PODC at
Thompson Raceway on Wednesday night with all 3 of our vehicles. Darin,
can you make it down from MI? The rain gave us time to eat blue crabs,
drink beer, and discuss new bike designs. Not a good idea. We started
laying out chassis designs for AGNS's new big brother ANGUS on the
brown table paper. Six wheel motors and a smoking steer head triple
tree are part of the plan. A little show to go with the go this time.
Thank for taking a spin on AGNS. That was the highlight of my day as
well! Perhaps we can get together at Mason-Dixon in the fall like we
did a few years ago.
Shawn Lawless
-----Original Message-----
From: Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: EV Discussion List <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 5:33 am
Subject: Power of DC - Sunday's Pool Party (the drag race)
Well, as you know the drag race ended up being a washout. I was hoping
the rain would hold off a few hours and it did for awhile in the
morning but after the gates opened at 11:00 am it started sprinkling.
It stopped for about an hour so the track decided to race. I put off
setting up the Power of DC stuff and concentrated on getting the car
off the trailer and into tech before it started to rain again. I went
around to all the racers in the pits and told them we should all get to
tech ASAP so we could at least get a couple runs in. Since this was a
Test and Tune we were sharing the track with the gassers and the
turnout for them was pretty light, maybe 12 cars at the most. Most
stayed home because of the weather.
Darin was busy hooking up the new spider box he made to the generator.
He did a great job building this work of art. He had a circuit breaker
panel in the middle mounted on a board. On the right side of the panel
were 8 120 volt outlets and on the left side were 2 240 volt outlets
and 4 big cables coming out to attach to the generator. He also had a
tool box filled with several different 240 volt outlets and plugs so we
could adapt to the specific needs of the 240 volt folks. It hooked up
flawlesly. The mid-Atlantic coast now has it's own Spider Box. Before
he left he handed the panel over to me and said "Here you go" Thanks
Darin!!! I tell you the EV community really pulls together.
For those who don't know. We've been shipping "Big Blue", the blue
spider box (distribution panel for the generator) across the country
for the NEDRA events for at least 3 years now. It's been traversing
back and forth to Chicago, Florida, Maryland, and Oregon. John Wayland
had it stowed in his garage so he sent it out to our event so we used
it on Saturday and used Darin's new box on Sunday. But now "Big Blue"
can stay home for awhile now.
Shawn Lawless was there with two trailers. One carrying the OJ dragster
and the AGNuS motorcycle and the other carrying the Nash
Electropolitan. Shawn actually left for Hong Kong this past Wednesday
and arrived home Saturday night. As soon as he got home he went to his
shop to finish putting the vehicles together and loaded everything up
and didn't get home till 3:00 am then they left Ohio for Maryland at
6:30 am for the 5 hour drive to the track. Talk about cutting it close.
Shawn was anxious to try out all the new mods. He put new batteries in
OJ. The Nash got a new driveshaft to replace the broken one from the
previous week's record attempt. And AGNuS got a new battery pack. Get
this, 36 28-volt Milwaukee V-28 battery packs stacked in three tiers in
the bike's frame. Brings back memories from last year's Monster Garage
episode. Thick copper bus bars attaching all the battery packs
together. A Zilla with a hairball and two permanent magnet motors
directly mounted on either side of a go-kart tire slick. A work of art.
Shawn was going to try for the NEDRA 168 volt Motorcycle record. And
wanted to get back the 96 volt record with the Nash. I believe OJ was
running at 240 volts.
Dave Cover arrived and set up his tent and got his 944 Porsche ready.
I'm hoping he can tell more folks about it. I was really wanting to see
his car drag race since he did so well in the AutoCross.
Larry Jarboe arrived with the Great Mills Green Hornet MR2. The kids
were really anxious to race and telling me all the mods they made to
the car from the previous year.
Darin Gilbert had set up his tent and the Pirahna motorcycle was
sporting a new wheelie bar. The bike looked great. Darin had really
refined this machine. I know he was anxious to try it out at 96 volts.
The West Virginia University team arrived but they left the car in the
trailer since it was still not running. Roy Nutter suspects the motor
could be the problem and the students are still figuring it out. So it
wasn't going to run at all this weekend.
My car. well I haven' done anything to it in a few years. Although it
has an XP-1227, 55s all around and I race it with Optima Red Tops the
Raptor 600 is limiting the speed. So I need to think about an upgrade
at some point. I never did get a chance to fully charge the car after
the AutoCross Saturday because "Big Blue's" 4 120 volt outlets were
taken up most of the day. So my batteries were sitting at 12.36 volts.
Not good. The car had plenty of energy to get through the AutoCross,
but it needed a bit more capacity to make sustained 1/4 mile passes.
Other EVA/DCers were Joe Lado with his Fiero and Mike Harvey who
decided to leave his car on the trailer due to the rain.
Most of our visitors from the previous day were there. Dennis Pestka
had traveled from St Louis and arrived on Sunday. He had brought 36
feet of 4/0 Carol Super Vu-Tron wire to give away.
A reporter from the Washington Post was there. He talked to all the
drivers. But he didn't have a photographer with him. There actually
wasn't much to write about since the event was pretty much going to be
a wash out and I didn't see anything in Monday's Post. Getting our
story bumped isn't unusual anyway. Last year the Washington Post was
going to do an article on the race for their Style section and they did
the interviews but the reporter ran her article on a Woman who owned a
Hummer instead. Arggh!! She told me it was the Editor's decision. It is
a disapointment, but I'm getting used to it. What's really
disappointing is they come to us first. So we get our hopes up. Then
we're bumped.
This happened twice with the Great Mills Team this year. The Discovery
Channel called in February to do a story on our race. They even took me
out to lunch to discuss the project. I suggested they do something on
the Great Mills new car they were planning to build. Everything was
planned until the management shakeup at Discovery and the project was
cancelled a week before filming was to begin. Then later in February a
producer from the History Channel calls. He wanted to do something
similar. So we arrange the same thing again with the Great Mills Team
but before the filming begins the History Channel pulls the project.
The upper management at the History Channel, which includes the owners
son is apparently a big Baja racing enthusiast and electrics just
aren't that exciting to him. Whatever. So after being burned by two
cable networks, the kids at Great Mills decided to document the
conversion themselves. More power to them. Like I mentioned before,
they approach us then pull the rug out at the last minute.
But at least Channel 25 was there the day before so that was cool.
I guess we had had our day in the sun when the Canadian Discovery
Channel show, The Daily Planet filmed the race in 2005. The planets
were all aligned that day.
Anyway back to the race before the flood.
Joe Lado's Fiero was the first to get inspected so I hurridly got my
car up to the inspection line and was the 4th in line behind a couple
Mustangs. As usual, the electrics were a curiosity. The inspector guy
remembered my car from the previous year's races so I quickly got
passed through inspection and went back to the pits to wait for us to
be called. They called us once already but alot of folks were still
setting up.
At that point my daughter was getting bored so my wife Monica took her
to the Outlet Mall in town. My son Jake camped out in the truck playing
video games after being yelled at by the track troll for riding his
scooter in the pits. He's still angry about it.
The track officials called us again so I rushed up to the staging
lanes. Joe was already there. There are 6 staging lanes and the track
lets us line up in the first 2. They let a few gassers go and it was
our turn.
Joe lined up in the left lane and I lined up in the right. This was
Joe's first time drag racing so that was quite a thrill for him. We
took off and that was the only run the electrics made that day.
I went back to charge the car and that is when it started to rain
again. After an hour the track cancelled racing for the day. The track
was too saturated to dry off at this point.
All the gassers packed up and left so it was just us left at track. I
think the track owners even left so we had the whole place to
ourselves.
The rain slowed for a bit so Shawn and Darin decided to do some
burnouts in the pits. OJ's driver go suited up and did some cool
burnouts and short runs in the pits. Darin did a cool burnout with his
Pirahna. Kind of reminded me of the Joliet event that got cancelled in
May 2006. We just relocated to a Pep Boys parking lot and hung out
there and the guys did burnouts in the parking lot.
The highlight of the day for me was when Shawn called me over and asked
if I wanted to try out AGNuS. Now, this was the motorcycle that had
done 106 mph two weeks before and has 4 consecutive NEDRA records and
has a new set of V-28 batteries on board that hasn't even been tested
yet on the track so I was like "Wow!" Being an electric scooter guy I
recognized the throttle on the bike was a Magura which I use all the
time so I that was familiar and Shawn said the bike was solid and
predictable so I suited up and rode the bike around the pits. I opened
it up on one stretch of the pits and the bike felt great. It's really
low to the ground and actually did feel more in control at the higher
speeds. So that was a real treat for me. Then he let me drive the Nash
around the pits. That was cool.
It started to rain harder so we put some of the tents together to make
a larger area for people to congregate under while we held the raffles
and thanked everyone for coming out. Thanks to Jim Husted for building
that beautiful motor we gave away. Joe Lado won it.
As we were just about ready to leave the track, Bryan Murtha, who owns
a RAV-4 EV pulled up. He had hoped to make it for the event but had a
wedding to go to and decided at the last minute to come up after the
wedding. He had just driven the RAV-4 80 miles from Southern Maryland
to the event and needed a quick charge to get back home. So we got him
hooked up. Bob Rice wired up the outlet to the generator and we cranked
it up. Satisfied that the RAV was taking a charge we headed out to our
usual haunt, Ledo's Pizza, to have dinner and dry out. Bob Rice was
there, as well as my family, the Lado family, Dave Davidson, Bryan
Murtha and Big John, one of our EVA/DC members and a train engine
mechanic.
Thanks for everyone coming out. Maybe we'll plan next year's race
before hurricane season. In retrospect, we went 6 years without a rain
delay or cancellation.
We'll get pictures up as soon as we can.
Chip Gribben
________________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
