EV Digest 6863
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) EVLN(AeroVironment 250kW Fast EV Charger: 10min=120mi)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) EVLN(Making-vaporware-disappear, 2 GM li-ion contracts)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) EVLN(MIT Porsche 914 LiFePO4 EV conversion)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) EVLN(How Oil Company Gouging Is Saving EVs)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) EVLN(Keller's are fixing up a C-Car nicknamed Blue Cheese)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) EVLN(Lightning Motors Solar juiced li-ion Yamaha R1 superbike)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) EVLN(EVs & PHEVs key to China's energy problem)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Corded mower
by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) EV's can be difficult to quantify
by "Richard Acuti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Safety of inverter/controller or whole system?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: AC/DC thing
by Richard Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Troll Removal Survey
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Battery Venting
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Motor Adapter plate
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: EVLN(MIT Porsche 914 LiFePO4 EV conversion)
by Tehben Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Tesla roadster motor philsophy
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(AeroVironment 250kW Fast EV Charger: 10min=120mi)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20070530005396&newsLang=en
May 30, 2007 09:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time
AeroVironment Achieves Electric Vehicle Fast Charge Milestone
Test Rapidly Recharges a Battery Pack Designed for Use in
Passenger Vehicles. 10 Minute Re-Charge Restores Enough Energy to
Run Electric Vehicle for Two Hours at 60 Miles Per Hour
MONROVIA, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--AeroVironment, a leader
in unmanned aircraft systems and efficient electric energy
systems, today announced that it performed a fast charge
demonstration of a lithium chemistry electric vehicle battery
pack for representatives of the California Air Resources Board
(CARB). The 35kWh (kilowatt-hour) battery pack, developed by
Altair Nanotechnologies, is designed for use in the
Phoenix Motorcar Sport Utility Truck. This battery pack is
designed to allow the truck to travel more than 100 miles on a
single charge. The test, conducted by engineers at AVs Monrovia,
California Energy Technology Center, was a milestone in battery
fast charging, demonstrating the capability of fully charging the
pack in less than ten minutes.
Electric vehicles offer the potential to eliminate
automobile-based emissions including carbon, which is frequently
linked to global climate change. The on-board battery packs that
supply electricity to electric vehicles are perceived as being
unable to provide sufficient driving range to promote widespread
consumer adoption. The expanded range of Altair Nanotechnologies
new battery pack, combined with AVs demonstrated ability to fast
charge the pack in a short amount of time, represent a
significant development that could broaden the appeal of electric
vehicles to a wider segment of the automobile driving
population.
This is an important step forward in demonstrating a key
infrastructure element required to support zero emission
vehicles, said Joe Edwards, vice president and general manager
of AVs Energy Technology Center. Our PosiCharge® fast charge
technology has demonstrated itself to be reliable for the daily
operation of thousands of heavily used, low voltage electric
industrial vehicles throughout North America. Our ability to fast
charge high voltage battery packs used in consumer electric
vehicles safely and in such a short period of time will help to
extend the useful range of these vehicles greatly, eliminating a
significant objection to their use in everyday applications.
AV engineers used a grid-connected AV advanced battery charger
rated at 250kW. Prior testing of the Altairnano NanoSafe battery
technology by AV demonstrated that such battery packs can sustain
several cycles per day of ten minute charging and two hour
discharging. Each cycle is equivalent to an electric vehicle
traveling for two hours at 60 miles per hour.
[...]
About AeroVironment, Inc. (AV) [...] please visit www.avinc.com.
Safe Harbor Statement Certain statements in this press release
may constitute "forward-looking statements" [...] Contacts
AeroVironment, Inc. Charles Botsford, +1 626-357-9983 x351
[EMAIL PROTECTED] or Steven Gitlin, +1 626-357-9983
[EMAIL PROTECTED] or For AeroVironment Mark Boyer, +1 310-455-7812
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
© Business Wire 2007
===
http://www.mhmonline.com/nID/5581/MHM/pNum=1/viewStory.asp
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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EVLN(Making-vaporware-disappear, 2 GM li-ion contracts)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://jalopnik.com/cars/making-vaporware-disappear%3F/gm-awards-battery-development-contracts-for-chevrolet-volt-e+flex-system-266038.php
Making Vaporware Disappear?
GM Awards Battery Development Contracts For Chevrolet Volt
E-Flex System
The General's awarded two contracts for development of
lithium-ion batteries for its electric drive "E-Flex System."
The "E-Flex System," if you'll remember, is the red herring
vaporware electric vehicle architecture underpinning the
Chevy Volt concept car shown earlier this year. One contract's
heading over to lithium-ion supplier Compact Power, Inc in
Troy, Michigan and the other is being awarded to battery-pack
supplier Continental Automotive Systems in Frankfurt, Germany.
Now it'll be the job of these two companies to develop
something that will finally make Bob Lutz's flight of fancy
take -- err -- to the road? Ray Wert
Chevy Rocks Down To Electric Avenue
GM Awards Advanced Development Battery Contracts For Chevrolet
Volt E-Flex System
WILMINGTON, Del. - General Motors has awarded two contracts for
advanced development of lithium-ion batteries for its electric
drive "E-Flex System," it was announced today at GM's annual
shareholder meeting.
GM selected two companies out of the 13 technical proposals it
considered to provide advanced lithium batteries for both
range-extender electric and fuel cell variants of the E-Flex
architecture. The E-Flex electric vehicle architecture underpins
the Chevy Volt concept car shown earlier this year and is being
developed as part of GM's strategy to diversify transportation
away from petroleum.
One contract will go to lithium-ion battery supplier Compact
Power, Inc., based in Troy, Mich. CPI is a subsidiary of Korean
battery manufacturer LG Chem. A second contract has been awarded
to Frankfurt, Germany-based Continental Automotive Systems, a
division of Continental A.G., a tier one automotive supplier that
will develop lithium-ion battery packs. GM continues to assess
other solutions to quickly bring lithium-ion batteries to
production.
[...]
===
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070605/UPDATE/706050404/1396
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Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car
Finder tool.
http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(MIT Porsche 914 LiFePO4 EV conversion)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2007/porsche-0605.html
Students take Porsche to electric avenue
Nancy Stauffer, MIT Energy Initiative June 5, 2007
[Photo / Donna Coveney
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2007/porsche1-enlarged.jpg
Left to right: Gerardo Lao, grad student in material science,
Emmanuel Sin, mechanical engineering senior, Ryan King,
mechanical engineering sophomore, Jeremy Kuenpel, freshman in
mechanical engineering, Craig Wildman, graduate student in
mechanical engineering team around the porsche in Sloan
Automotive Lab. They are installing batteries in the front trunk
compartment of the vehicle.
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2007/porsche2-enlarged.jpg
Mechanical engineering students Craig Wildman G, backround and
Ryan King '09, center, and Jeremy Kuenpel '10 work on putting
together the porsche in Sloan Automotive Lab. They are installing
a motor controller into the rear trunk compartment of the
vehicle.]
For the past six months a team of MIT students has spent hundreds
of hours--many late at night--converting a sleek Porsche 914 into
an electric vehicle. Their goal? To demonstrate the viability of
advanced electric vehicle technology and to help clarify what
research and development has yet to be done.
The Porsche was donated by Professor Yang Shao-Horn of mechanical
engineering, who with her husband, Quinn Horn, bought it off eBay
and made it available to students interested in converting it to
an electric-powered vehicle. In addition to providing an unusual
opportunity for hands-on learning, the project will ultimately
yield information valuable to Shao-Horn's research on advanced
batteries. Specifically, she and her team in the Electrochemical
Energy Laboratory will be able to measure the conditions that
batteries encounter inside an operating vehicle.
"In the laboratory we work on materials to make batteries safer,
last longer and have higher energy," she said. "But we are also
interested in gaining a good perspective on the system view.
What's involved in building an electric vehicle, and what's
required of the batteries?"
The student project took off a year ago when Valence Technology,
Inc., agreed to donate 18 high-tech rechargeable batteries valued
at $2,030 each, plus a battery-management system. While today's
electric cars generally operate on conventional lead-acid
batteries, Valence provided its enabling lithium phosphate
rechargeable batteries, which are lighter, last longer, charge up
faster, have a longer lifetime and don't pose a safety risk.
Leading the assembly team in the Sloan Automotive Laboratory is
senior Emmanuel Sin, who was awarded the Peter Griffith Prize for
an "outstanding experimental project and thesis" by the
Department of Mechanical Engineering in May.
Sin's main collaborators on the project are sophomore Ryan King
of mechanical engineering; freshman Jeremy Kuempel; graduate
student Gerardo Jose la O', who initiated the project; and
graduate student David Danielson, who obtained funding for
supplies and tools from Maniv Energy Capital, LLC. Both la O' and
Danielson are in the Department of Materials Science and
Engineering.
To make the conversion, the students replaced the original engine
with an electric motor, 12 of the batteries, the
battery-management system, various relays and a controller that
makes all the components work together. Things haven't always
gone smoothly. "There's been a lot of adapting things that don't
work as they're designed," said King. "We had to come up with
some creative solutions."
In the next few weeks they hope to put the Porsche through its
paces. For example, they'll determine its acceleration and top
speed and will see how far it will go on a single charge.
According to their best estimates, the car should produce 50 to
60 horsepower and have a top speed of 70 to 100 mph. Plugging it
into a wall socket should fully recharge the batteries in four to
five hours, and it should then go 100 miles or more before it
needs recharging.
A version of this article appeared in MIT Tech Talk on June 6,
2007 (download PDF).
[ http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2007/techtalk51-29.pdf ]
CONTACT Elizabeth A. Thomson, MIT News Office
Phone: 617-258-5402, E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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. EV List Editor & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
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____________________________________________________________________________________
Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news,
photos & more.
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EVLN(How Oil Company Gouging Is Saving EVs)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.greenbiz.com/news/reviews_third.cfm?NewsID=35219
How Oil Companies Saved the Electric Car
Source Daniel Freedman, GreenBiz
Outrageous gas prices and worldwide concern about global warming
have spurred a new wave of automakers to make the long-awaited
dream of practical -- and yes, stylish -- electric vehicles a
reality. These green machines will soon be coming to a showroom
near you.
[...]
As consumers are facing the reality that they'll be spending more
and more annually for gas, it's no surprise that they're busy
seeking an alternative. What is surprising is that, after many
years on the fringes, the best alternative for drivers is coming
from the rapidly advancing electric-car industry.
Bad News at the Pump Will Drive Sales of EVs
[...]
Coupled with the fact that a recent U.S. Department of Energy
study
[
http://www.pnl.gov/energy/eed/etd/pdfs/phev_feasibility_analysis_combined.pdf
]
estimates the premium for a plug-in hybrid will soon
drop from as high as $12,000 down to between $6,000 and $10,000,
the heavens appear to be aligning for a very likely second coming
of the electric vehicle.
New Leaders Emerge
While large automakers hesitate to re-enter the electric vehicle
market, other savvy entrepreneurs to break into the automotive
industry with an electric bang.
[...]
The Next Step: Banking on Green
Critics of electric vehicles often state that electric vehicles,
while pollution-free from the tailpipe, are still polluting by
consuming electricity produced far away at dirty power plants.
While the numbers clearly show EV's are still much cleaner
per/mile when including the power plants emissions, Ebhard is
working to settle this concern once and for all.
[...]
Daniel Freedman is the founder of StrategyGreen and works as a
LEED-accredited green building consultant in Southern
California.
© Greener World Media, Inc. All rights reserved
===
http://campaignsandelections.com/nh/releases/index.cfm?ID=845
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Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows.
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EVLN(Keller's are fixing up a C-Car nicknamed Blue Cheese)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.whptv.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=0b402ff7-78bf-4544-9f1d-fa4ea2627109
Sparking interest Last Update: Jun 7, 2007 5:25 PM
[Watch This Video
http://www.whptv.com/mediacenter/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
]
There's a local man who's taken high gas prices into his own
hands. He's doing that by fixing up an electric car. Ewa Roman
explains how it's keeping him away from the gas station for the
most part, and leaving more money in his wallet.
Its nicknamed the Blue Cheese.
Tyler Keller:
I wanted to call it blue cheese because obviously, it's blue and
shaped like cheese and it's kinda funny looking, so a funny name
works.
With a turn of a key and flip of a switch you're ready to roll.
It turns corners and heads.
George Keller:
It's a funny looking car but people seem to get a kick out of
it!
As a father -son project, George and Tyler worked on restoring
the electric car together.
We like to do electronic projects, we thought wow! This is the
biggest project of all.
At a time when gas prices hit record highs Keller says this is a
big buck saver. With an electric motor it doesn't need gas, just
a quick charge.
George:
Literally, it's probably about one dollar worth of electricity.
Re-charging the car is pretty easy, all George does is park it in
the garage, gets the extension cord, plugs it in, it recharges
overnight and in the morning, it's ready to go! It runs about 15
miles before you have to plug it back in.
That's plenty to take our son to school and run errands and
that's really what it's intended for.
George is one of the lucky ones. In Pennsylvania electric cars
can't be on driven on roads - they don't meet state vehicle
codes. George says the only street- legal electric cars allowed
on roads in Pennsylvania are older models that are grandfathered,
like his car.
But just because you can't drive one yet doesn't mean you can't
get a ride. If you ask, George says he has no problem letting you
have a taste of the Blue Cheese.
State Senator Stewart Greenleaf has introduced a bill to allow
neighborhood electric vehicles, which can travel up to 25-miles
per hour on roads with a 35-mile an hour speed limit.
Copyright 2007 CLEAR CHANNEL COMMUNICATIONS
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Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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. EV List Editor & AFV newswires
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Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.
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EVLN(Lightning Motors Solar juiced li-ion Yamaha R1 superbike)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/highway1/la-hy-throttleside30may30,1,3537041.story?coll=la-news-highway_1&ctrack=1&cset=true
Solar power to juice the motor bike? Panel up
By Susan Carpenter Times Staff Writer May 30, 2007
[(Don Kelsen / LAT)
http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2007-05/30133344.jpg
Lightning Motors lithium-powered superbike is a Yamaha R1
converted to electric power.]
I'D been riding for years before I learned motorcycles' dirty
little secret. Mile per mile, some bikes actually spew more gunk
into the air than cars, pickup trucks or SUVs, even if they do
use less gas. It was a sickening realization, since I'd spent so
much time believing the opposite was true.
That's why the prospect of a performance-oriented electric bike
is so appealing.
Of course, an electric motorcycle isn't the same as a
zero-emissions motorcycle. An electric bike's environmental
friendliness depends, for the most part, on where it's plugged
in: What's the energy source that's powering the outlet?
Most of the electricity in this country is supplied by
coal-fueled plants, so if you're plugging an electric bike into
your outlet, you could say your bike is basically coal-powered.
It's using less energy, and therefore polluting less than a
gas-powered bike, but it's still using a fossil fuel and it isn't
zero-emission.
The idea behind the Lightning Motors is to make a bike that's
electric and zero-emission, courtesy of solar power.
Most Americans don't live "off the grid," and installing solar
panels isn't cheap. Add the cost of a solar power installation to
the price of a motorcycle, and it starts to get a little
outrageous. But that's short-term thinking. In the long term, it
might make a lot of sense.
Say you're a commuter, riding a real Yamaha R1 about 80 miles
round trip each day. You're probably putting $8 worth of gas in
your tank daily. That means you're shelling out about $2,000 a
year for gas.
By solar expert Richard Hatfield's math, you're a quarter of the
way toward the cost of a solar-panel installation that would
support regular charging of a bike like his R1 conversion, which
uses about 8 kilowatts of power to travel 80 miles at an average
speed of 65 mph. Creating 8 kilowatts using solar power would
require a 1.2-kilowatt setup, Hatfield says. That's a solar panel
roughly the size of two sheets of plywood with an installation
cost of about $8,000.
The batteries for the Lightning Lithium we tested (see
accompanying article) are rated for 3,000 charges. For a daily
commuter, that translates into about 10 years of life. With
Hatfield's solar power scenario, that means the last six years of
the batteries' life are basically free.
At least, that's the theory. These batteries are so new that they
haven't been tested in the real world to verify the math, but as
gas heads toward $4 a gallon, it's an interesting idea to
ponder.
Copyright 2007 Los Angeles Times
===
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/190795/Lightning_Lithium_Superbike_No_Emissions
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Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV.
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(EVs & PHEVs key to China's energy problem)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.shanghaidaily.com/sp/article/2007/200706/20070606/article_318543.htm
Electric cars the key to China's energy problem
By Yunshi Wang 2007-6-6
A DEFINITION of energy security for China should include
uninterrupted energy supply and environmental survivability.
[...]
But to meet both, China will have to be bold and innovative, and
take a path that no one other country has taken.
[...]
Some even joked that oil and car companies embrace the idea of
hydrogen cars knowing that they will not be a threat to their
interests.
In the meantime, we can't sit still and wait, we can't continue
to pollute at the expense of our lives.
Then what is the key to China's energy security?
The answer is car batteries.
Electric vehicles (EVs) and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles
(PHEVs) are the immediate future for China's energy security.
If the range of car batteries can extend to one hundred miles at
a half of the current cost level, EVs and PHEVs can replace
China's current vehicle fleet.
A rough calculation shows that the off-peak electricity of all
China can meet the demands of the current Chinese fleet. This
would dramatically improve China's environment.
Electric motors are inherently more efficient than combustion
engines. In traffic jams, EVs and PHEVs can simply run on
batteries or shut down while conventional vehicles stand idle
spewing pollutants.
Using electricity can also boost the renewable energy to a much
higher level, because batteries can be powered by off-grid solar,
wind, geothermal, and small hydropower.
One of the obstacles for renewables to be connected to the grid
is the stability of system: Renewables - windmills, solar, and
small hydro - are not reliable.
With numerous mega hydropower stations that have to release water
during the off-season, EVs and PHEVs can be their largest
customers.
With this technology, nuclear power can also be useful in
transportation.
In short, China's increased use of renewable energy, expansion of
nuclear power, and efficient use of its large dams dictates that
EVs and PHEVs are China's master key to its assorted
energy-related problems.
Moreover, conversion to EVs and PHEVs can pave the way for the
further conversion to hydrogen energy.
The problem is that the battery technology is still evolving.
Currently, car batteries are heavy, bulky, and dangerous to load
and unload. If we can design our car batteries into uniform
shapes and sizes just like we do with our camera batteries, we
might be able to replace them easily.
Imagine you can drive your EV or PHEV to a utility-operated
roadside battery station, which has a beehive of brick-shaped
batteries charged overnight.
Technologically, lithium ion batteries seem promising, with
expected range of 100 miles or more per charge, but still, we
would have to overcome the challenge of making them cheaper and
easy to handle.
The US almost adopted EVs in the 1990s, only to retreat in
disappointment. Maybe China, with a greater desire to be
successful and more lessons learned, will be lucky.
If not, batteries will prove to be our Achilles heel, but I
believe it will be more like our Mount Everest - hard to climb,
but not an unreachable goal.
(The author is director of the China Center for Energy and
Transportation at the University of California, Davis. The views
expressed are his own.)
Copyright © 2001-2007 Shanghai Daily Publishing House
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You are looking at at least a 5 or 7 HP electric motor I'd bet. That
means 240vac, 40A circuit or more -- not a regular extension cord. If
you use a regular AC induction motor, it also tends to overheat under
voltage drop -- so a 200 foot cord is bad news.
I'd highly recommend doing a battery electric instead of corded
electric for something like this. It'll be easier, and likely cheaper
too.
Z
On 6/8/07, David Hankins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I'm thinking about converting my riding lawn mower to a corded electric.
I have some ideas to deal with the cord. I was thinking about using one of
those cord reel setups. We'll have to see how it holds up reeling under
load. Or maybe a coiled cord affair with a mast on the mower and elevated
attach point on the house. The farthest point is around 200'+ from the plug.
I have almost an acre under grass and It will get kind of dicey out on the
edge where about a 1/3 acre chunk has a dozen trees on it.
The main question that I have is: The current ICE motor on it is a 19HP
Briggs. What HP electric motor do I need to replace that?
Thanks
David
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve Powers and I recently had an excellent offline discussion regarding
whether or not you "save money" driving an EV, as well as battery life,
ranges etc. He helped me do a rough calculation of how long my pack -might-
last which I've been wondering about. (About 10,000 miles)
Initially, I felt that I was probably saving money by driving my EV. I knew
I had to drive it for a few years to recoup any fuel savings but I figured I
was slowly earning back my investments and "doing good" in other factors
like environmental, and positively contributing to our energy problems.
Steve listed costs I didn't consider and provided some good, real-world
numbers on 8 volt lead battery life cycles which have me thinking that he's
right: This EV costs as much to own and operate over time as a gasoline
powered car. On top of this, my electricty rates just went up by 50%. That's
right: 50% for crappy, coal-fired electricity. Thanks to Constellation
Energy for buying Baltimore Gas & Electric.
Specifically, things like an extra insurance policy, extra registration, how
long I can make my batteries last, what they cost, and electricity rates all
contribute to this. Now I'm not saying that EV's aren't wroth the effort
just because it's not helping my wallet out. I'm just saying that it was a
real eye-opener.
But, there are some savings. My registration and insurance are much less
than a newer car. I don't pay into that fraud known as the Maryland
Emissions Testing program. I use the highways but I don't pay a fuel tax
because I'm not buying gasoline. The higher the price of gasoline goes, the
more quickly I'll recoup my costs in fuel savings. But cars will always
require maintenance of some kind or other. Does one ever really recoup costs
on a car?
I'm into my EV for $5278.00, purchase price, new batteries, charger and
controller repairs. I wonder if I'll ever get it back? :-)
At any rate, there are a lot of other reasons to drive an EV. I hate being
told that I have "no choice but to buy gasoline". That was probably my
biggest reason. I've also become disgusted with the wild price swings that
the gasoline market takes. The 50% increase in my electrical prices has been
coming for years and I knew it so I don't count that. Before and after,
prices are much more stable than gas or diesel. I'm also -way- too lazy to
research fuel companies in an attempt to avoid buying gasoline from
companies that "fund terrorism" or any other kind of "-ism".
Rich A.
_________________________________________________________________
Picture this share your photos and you could win big!
http://www.GETREALPhotoContest.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us
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Lee Hart wrote:
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
The commutator in a brushed DC motor is the inverter that makes AC for
the coils so it can run. It is a mechanical version of the transistor
inverter in any AC motor with an internal controller, such as a
brushless DC motor or AC induction motor with internal inverter -- they
all run immediately when you apply power.
Yes, except mechanical inverter cannot be ripped out of the DC motor
so always ready to run it straight from the battery. Failed short
controller is out of equation.
Not so with AC motor - with commutator in the inverter the motor will
not run without inverter (or with failed one).
So designer must take this into account and do something extra
(external contactors and logic+drivers controlling it) to prevent that.
Yes; exactly the same as for an AC motor. AC drives must also have
fuses, contactors, circuit breakers, and safety interlock logic or they
can fail "on".
You must be pretending that don't understand what I'm talking about.
Let's make as much as possible equal. Remove fuses, contactors, all that
stuff normally *in the system* but outside controller since we discuss
weather AC *controller itself* is inherently safer since doesn't
have to rely on that external stuff or not.
You are waiting at red light, DC controller fails. What happens?
You're at red light, AC inverter fails. What happened?
DON'T bring contactors/logic/fuses here! We're not talking about
system. We're talking about controllers themselves.
The difference is that most DC drives are built to be low cost, and so
leave out as much of these parts as they can get away with. Most AC
drives are designed to be feature rich, and so include most of these
parts. It is not AC vs. DC, but rather a low-end versus high-end system
question.
High-end DC systems include the extra fuses, contactors, and safety
circuits, just like high-end AC systems.
Except that in AC systems fuses are for protection against any kind of
trouble *except* runaway by shorting battery to the motor. This alone
makes fuses and contactors desirable for AC systems but absolutely
mandatory for DC ones.
AC system technically doesn't need main contactors to kill the battery
to prevent runaways.
Then why do all AC drives include them?
Not all. Swiss version of Smart with TIM400 AC system with Zebra
battery doesn't have contactors. (well sort of, battery contains
emergency contactors inside). I'm not debating if it's a good idea.
All I'm saying AC system's designer doesn't have to worry about
AC motor running away because main contactors get stuck while
power stage fails. DC system's designer has to.
Locking the rotor sudden stopping may be dangerous but by far
is not as bad as runaway car. At least you're not moving in
a few seconds. With runaway DC system you are moving for
many seconds until something nastier happens.
Again, don't bring into equation safety hardware outside controller.
It is there precisely because controller itself does not possess ability
to be as safe as AC inverter without those.
Because failed silicon can still
result in a catastrophe (exploding parts, melted wires, fires, violent
acceleration or deceleration, etc.)!
Can you explain how failed power stage (6 pack IGBTs. I suppose we're
talking about failure of power stage silicon, not logic chips) can
possibly cause uncontrolled full throttle acceleration?
I'm more than certain you will come up with some explanation rather
than just admit without arguing this particular advantage of AC :-)
Victor
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This is totally unnecessary. Almost every email program/service out there
offers some kind of filtering or automated message sorting.
If you don't want to be bothered by someone, set up your own filters, or
have that person's email automatically routed to your trash folder.
Problem solved and we don't have to waste list bandwidth or moderators time.
> Hi Folks
>
> Do I need to name the troll?
>
> I think not.
>
> OK... I'll be first.
>
> I vote "yes" for removal of the troll from the EVDL.
>
> Anybody else?
>
>
>
> Roy LeMeur
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> PC Magazines 2007 editors choice for best Web mailaward-winning Windows
> Live Hotmail.
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>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
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Thanks for your input Lee. However, Miser caps (see at
http://store.solar-electric.com/batwatmiscap.html
are not catalytic. They have plastic pellets inside and when charging, the
plastic pellets capture up to 90% of the moisture and acid droplets. They
are just around 4-5 Bucks each.
> Note that you'll also want to be very careful how you make your battery
> terminal connections. If you put a lot of stress on them, they can leak
> as bad (or worse) than the vent caps themselves.
I know about that. I will have to re-silicone a few posts. I suppose they
broke the seal when I drove over a bump in the road. The batteries might
have moved a bit while the clamps kept the posts in place ;)
mm./
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Can't you just get a machine shop to make an adapter?
Can someone point me to where I can learn more about how exactly an
adapter works and what parts there are to it. I mean I understand
the plate i think, its coupling the motor shaft to the transmission
that I need help understanding.
Pictures and/or diagrams would be helpful.
Thanks,
Tehben
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Looks like they are using a controller from Azure Dynamics in the
picture.
On Jun 10, 2007, at 7:29 PM, bruce parmenter wrote:
EVLN(MIT Porsche 914 LiFePO4 EV conversion)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2007/porsche-0605.html
Students take Porsche to electric avenue
Nancy Stauffer, MIT Energy Initiative June 5, 2007
[Photo / Donna Coveney
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2007/porsche1-enlarged.jpg
Left to right: Gerardo Lao, grad student in material science,
Emmanuel Sin, mechanical engineering senior, Ryan King,
mechanical engineering sophomore, Jeremy Kuenpel, freshman in
mechanical engineering, Craig Wildman, graduate student in
mechanical engineering team around the porsche in Sloan
Automotive Lab. They are installing batteries in the front trunk
compartment of the vehicle.
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2007/porsche2-enlarged.jpg
Mechanical engineering students Craig Wildman G, backround and
Ryan King '09, center, and Jeremy Kuenpel '10 work on putting
together the porsche in Sloan Automotive Lab. They are installing
a motor controller into the rear trunk compartment of the
vehicle.]
For the past six months a team of MIT students has spent hundreds
of hours--many late at night--converting a sleek Porsche 914 into
an electric vehicle. Their goal? To demonstrate the viability of
advanced electric vehicle technology and to help clarify what
research and development has yet to be done.
The Porsche was donated by Professor Yang Shao-Horn of mechanical
engineering, who with her husband, Quinn Horn, bought it off eBay
and made it available to students interested in converting it to
an electric-powered vehicle. In addition to providing an unusual
opportunity for hands-on learning, the project will ultimately
yield information valuable to Shao-Horn's research on advanced
batteries. Specifically, she and her team in the Electrochemical
Energy Laboratory will be able to measure the conditions that
batteries encounter inside an operating vehicle.
"In the laboratory we work on materials to make batteries safer,
last longer and have higher energy," she said. "But we are also
interested in gaining a good perspective on the system view.
What's involved in building an electric vehicle, and what's
required of the batteries?"
The student project took off a year ago when Valence Technology,
Inc., agreed to donate 18 high-tech rechargeable batteries valued
at $2,030 each, plus a battery-management system. While today's
electric cars generally operate on conventional lead-acid
batteries, Valence provided its enabling lithium phosphate
rechargeable batteries, which are lighter, last longer, charge up
faster, have a longer lifetime and don't pose a safety risk.
Leading the assembly team in the Sloan Automotive Laboratory is
senior Emmanuel Sin, who was awarded the Peter Griffith Prize for
an "outstanding experimental project and thesis" by the
Department of Mechanical Engineering in May.
Sin's main collaborators on the project are sophomore Ryan King
of mechanical engineering; freshman Jeremy Kuempel; graduate
student Gerardo Jose la O', who initiated the project; and
graduate student David Danielson, who obtained funding for
supplies and tools from Maniv Energy Capital, LLC. Both la O' and
Danielson are in the Department of Materials Science and
Engineering.
To make the conversion, the students replaced the original engine
with an electric motor, 12 of the batteries, the
battery-management system, various relays and a controller that
makes all the components work together. Things haven't always
gone smoothly. "There's been a lot of adapting things that don't
work as they're designed," said King. "We had to come up with
some creative solutions."
In the next few weeks they hope to put the Porsche through its
paces. For example, they'll determine its acceleration and top
speed and will see how far it will go on a single charge.
According to their best estimates, the car should produce 50 to
60 horsepower and have a top speed of 70 to 100 mph. Plugging it
into a wall socket should fully recharge the batteries in four to
five hours, and it should then go 100 miles or more before it
needs recharging.
A version of this article appeared in MIT Tech Talk on June 6,
2007 (download PDF).
[ http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2007/techtalk51-29.pdf ]
CONTACT Elizabeth A. Thomson, MIT News Office
Phone: 617-258-5402, E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
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'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
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