EV Digest 6875
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Doers vs talkers, was Otmar is getting rich?
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Question about DMV
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: open source motor controller
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Is it just monday, or did the list size change?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Grassroots charging infrastructure
by "Richard Acuti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) OJ2 to try for 130+ DR-B record Wednesday night
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Safety of inverter/controller or whole system?
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Question about DMV
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Grassroots charging infrastructure
by "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Mount Washington Alternative Regatta
by Tom Gocze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: open source motor controller
by "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Question about DMV
by "Beth Silverman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Grassroots charging infrastructure
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Solectria Sunrise Boston-to-NYC run in 1997
by "Beth Silverman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Educating Dan. Was:Re: Doers vs talkers, was Otmar is getting rich?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Educating Dan. Was:Re: Doers vs talkers, was Otmar is getting rich?
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Grassroots charging infrastructure
by "Brandon Kruger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Grassroots charging infrastructure
by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Embarrassing Moments , Was: EV's are less maintenance?
by "mike young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) GEO's COIL SPRING
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Question about DMV
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
24) Re: Doers vs talkers, was Otmar is getting rich?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
25) Re: Is it just monday, or did the list size change?
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: OJ2 to try for 130+ DR-B record Wednesday night
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Question about DMV
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Safety of inverter/controller or whole system?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Grass Roots charging infrastructure Was: Quick VEVCS poll
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dube wrote:
At 10:37 AM 6/11/2007, you wrote:
did you buy a controller from him?
Yes, I own a Zilla
By asking me if I own a Zilla he is showing that he really is not
willing or able to do the most simple research before he writes a note
to the EVDL. If he bothered to read the CafeElectric website or if he
made a ten second Google on "Bill Dube" he would have been able to
answer this question.
I'm so sorry that I didn't reasearch your highness before humbly
adressing you. I didn't ask to know. I asked to point out why he answers
your questions. because you paid him. and when you say 'he' about me you
address the crowd, a ploy of a weak mind looking for a democratic vote
on truth and in this case to rally the liars.You deplore the ganging but
lead it on.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Corbett,
Some DMV do not care what prime mover you have in your vehicle. You can
install a 4, 6, 8 cylinder engine, a jet engine, a fuel cell. In my state
Montana, you can have it re-title if you want if you have over 50 percent
change on the vehicle. If its less than 50 percent change, it will be
register by the original frame. You can have a new car body on a old frame
that is over 30 years old, it can be register for that original year.
I have a EV call Electro I that is close to 50 percent change and it is
still register as a EL Camino. I have another EV call Transformer I, but it
is register as a Chevelle.
Now I have a CAN AM road race car, that is converted to a sports car, that
uses a Mirage Body on a Porshe front frame and suspension and on a rear
Corvette rear frame and suspension, that has a 327 cu.in. engine mounted to
a Porshe trans axle, but using a Corvette tube axles. All is mounted on a
custom tube frame which I welded a section of 1966 Corvair rear spring
towers which has the Corvair ID tag on it. So it is register as a 1966
Corvair, instead of a 2007 sports car that will be finally completed this
year.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 6:39 AM
Subject: Question about DMV
> Hello to everyone on the list,
>
> I am new to the scene and have been lurking on the list and reading the
> conversion manuals available to me. After some research, I found a car
> to convert and am going to start in a few months. I am interested in
> knowing more about the registration process for this car now. I never
> thought much about it until the discussion about the DMV came up.
>
> I currently have this car registered and am driving it. Do I need to let
> the DMV know that it have been converted to electric when I am done?
> What are the benefits to letting them know? There is very little
> emissions testing in Virginia, only select areas and I am not in one of
> them, so that is not an issue.
>
>
> Also, does anyone know of any tax credits, incentives, etc for
> converting a vehicle to electric? I know my mom got some kind of tax
> credit for buying her Prius, but do they offer anything for conversions?
> Where would I find this kind of info?
>
> thanks in advance for any input.
> Corbett
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Kaido Kert wrote:
with all the fuss going on about open designs for motor controller,
why not take and improve on whats already out there ?
OSMC project has been open source with its circuits, board layouts and
construction from the very beginning
http://www.robotpower.com/osmc_info/
http://www.robotpower.com/products/osmc_info.html
Yes, it does only 50Volts and 160Amps continous, thats 8KW , but its a
start. Workable design that you can scale up from.
feel free to provide a 1-400v version of that circuit if it's a start
then. unknown input voltage
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I frequently get digests that are truncated. That is less attachments than
actual posts. If I want to see them I guess I could go to the archieve.
Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 10:04 PM
Subject: Re: Is it just monday, or did the list size change?
> On 11 Jun 2007 at 18:57, Jeff Shanab wrote:
>
> > I got what seemed like a bunch of smaller digests today, Did those
> > survey quantities take effect already?
>
> Monday was an unusually high traffic day for the EVDL. Lots of rather
warm
> threads are open right now.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
> or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Someone mentioned that it's illegal to resell electrical power.
This is sort of throwing a crimp into our plans. I have some questions about
that:
Obviously you can let people roll up to your house and charge for free. How
exactly do you charge for "electrical access"? Pay a flat fee to unlock a
charging box?
Would it be considered "selling" electricity if you accepted donations? What
if you only take the amount of money for the power that they use (no
profit)?
What's the trick to getting around this?
Rich A.
_________________________________________________________________
Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps.
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?ss=Restaurants~Hotels~Amusement%20Park&cp=33.832922~-117.915659&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=1118863&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Orange Juice racing team is headed to Quaker City Raceway Wednesday
night in search of a new DR-B (240 volt) record, 130 mph plus, and the
quickest run ever on lead AGM (10.23). Battery's will have to be just
perfect to get that much top speed but the weather should cooperate.
AGNS is getting jealous and may make the trip as well with her V28's.
I verified with Milwaukee that I made a mistake letting the V28's get
to 120 F. They are programmed to allow max power only up to 85 deg F.
We will have to strip the packs and build up our own bad boy if we
really want them to cook. If we get real lucky OJ may make it into the
Quick 8 for the night.
Shawn
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Why not tell you?
Because those of us who know, respect what Otmar is doing enough to
let him decide.
Because Otmar decided no, that is his business model, his choice,
and his right and totally independent from how "nice" he is
Because your persistence,attitude and genuinely negative comments
have proven that the most likely outcome is a new round of tiresome and
insulting comments like "Otmar only pays $$$ for the transistors, he is
gouging/charging too much", etc. etc.
Because you appear to have a problem accepting any answer that you
don't like. (what part of no, didn't you understand) (2)
other thoughts
I asked Microsoft for their source code so I could recompile it for
new hardware and they said no. I voted with my dollars, I use linux as
my primary OS.
Why are you attacking Otmar, and I mean that, you have made it
personal(3), it is not cafe electric to you, Just because you know the
owners name doesn't give you additional rights. Why aren't you after AC
propulsion, Tesla for the same info?
Let me answer that, Cause there is no-one there that would pay
attention, no audience. (1)
1-2-3 Selfcentered-egotistical-jerk, Not name calling, by definition. I
am sorry, but you have proven this, not me. This truth may be harsh but
hopefully you will see that the problem may have something to do with
you and the rest of your social and business life can be salvaged.
I admit, You have surprised me. How anyone could repeatably call such
negative attention to himself on a public forum that is archived for
probably the rest of your life; is just astounding.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I came up with a simple solution to address my safety concerns. A reed
switch is installed across the high current wires and senses the magnetic
field caused by high current to the controller. It switches -12V to a
small relay. The brake lights deliver +12V to the relay. Should the brake
lights come on and the reed switch is closed (due to high current) the
relay will close and drop the main contractors. The relay will stay on
until a reset button (or the ignition key) is activated. That little
additional works well, though I understand that it is not the ultimate
solution. But, since I would first press the brake in case of trouble, it
should prevent the car from going crazy. I do have a mechanical disconnect
too. But that would take a second or so to reach. Hope I'll never find out
:)
Michaela
> thanks Phil,
>
> Sorry, my suggestion wasn't phrased very clearly... I'll try again...
>
> "Is there a simple way of wiring up the shorting contactor so that a
> microcontroller/watchdog is not needed?"
>
> I have another question; if the motor is shorted out like this does that
> apply plug braking? If so will the braking be violent or gentle?
>
>
>
>
> (-Phil-) wrote:
>> I'm not sure what you mean exactly, but what I am talking about is to
>> put the contactor across the motor or battery, but PAST the main system
>> fuse. This is basically a "blow the fuse" contactor and will definitely
>> interrupt power to a faulted controller or whatever.
>>
>> As far as what models... Really, any of those will work as long as you
>> insure that the interlocks are such that it never closes during normal
>> operation. Anything reasonably beefy, even if it's not rated to
>> interrupt DC. It won't be exposed to interrupt current.
>>
>> If the contactor burns contacts a bit during the fault, it's ok. as it
>> will definitely blow the fuse.
>>
>> -Phil
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Ward"
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
>> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 1:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: Safety of inverter/controller or whole system?
>>
>>
>>> could the power to the normally closed contactor also be delivered
>>> through a fuse which shorts in the event of motor runaway or other
>>> such fault?
>>>
>>>
>>> Phil,
>>>
>>> when you say cheap contactor do you mean ev200 cheap or potter and
>>> brumfield 240V AC cheap or GE 48V contactor off ebay cheap ?
>>>
>>> (-Phil-) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A simple (but not cheap) backup DC safety measure would be to put a
>>>> normally closed contactor across the motor. If the power is
>>>> interrupted then the contactor closes and shorts the motor. The
>>>> power to this contactor would be maintained by a separate safety
>>>> monitor microcontroller acting as a watchdog. In the event of a
>>>> fault, it opens the main contactor, and drops power to the motor
>>>> shunt contactor. After the aforementioned 2 faults on my little EV
>>>> during controller testing, this is basically what I did. (I used a
>>>> SPDT relay that cut power and shorted the motor) The contacts on
>>>> such a device may not enjoy ever being used, but it would add no
>>>> resistance or loss if there was no fault. You could also use a cheap
>>>> contactor w/o arc suppression.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I live out in the country in Madison, VA. It is pretty rural and I am
sure that the local service station is not going to have a clue about
inspecting this thing. Many things pass in this area that probably
should not, but I would like to have some real info to show the
inspection station. Anyone know where to look for this info?
I already have the care registered, so I am thinking that they never
need to know. I checked some local government sites and there does not
seem to be any incentives, so I will probably not tell the DMV.
Corbett
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: RE: Question about DMV
> From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Tue, June 12, 2007 5:49 am
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
>
> Corbett,
>
> Where in Virginia are you? You might have difficulty with your
> state inspection. I think the registration won't be a problem but the
> inspection might. I haven't tried it yet in Virginia Beach since my EV
> isn't finished yet.
>
> Jody
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 8:39
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Question about DMV
>
> Hello to everyone on the list,
>
> I am new to the scene and have been lurking on the list and reading the
> conversion manuals available to me. After some research, I found a car
> to convert and am going to start in a few months. I am interested in
> knowing more about the registration process for this car now. I never
> thought much about it until the discussion about the DMV came up.
>
> I currently have this car registered and am driving it. Do I need to let
> the DMV know that it have been converted to electric when I am done?
> What are the benefits to letting them know? There is very little
> emissions testing in Virginia, only select areas and I am not in one of
> them, so that is not an issue.
>
>
> Also, does anyone know of any tax credits, incentives, etc for
> converting a vehicle to electric? I know my mom got some kind of tax
> credit for buying her Prius, but do they offer anything for conversions?
> Where would I find this kind of info?
>
> thanks in advance for any input.
> Corbett
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 6/12/07, Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I admit, You have surprised me. How anyone could repeatably call such
negative attention to himself on a public forum that is archived for
probably the rest of your life; is just astounding.
A quick Google suggests that this bridge is already burnt..
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rent the parking space or the outlet time and throw the power in for free?
Gotta be a bunch of ways around that.
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Acuti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: Grassroots charging infrastructure
Someone mentioned that it's illegal to resell electrical power.
This is sort of throwing a crimp into our plans. I have some questions
about that:
Obviously you can let people roll up to your house and charge for free.
How exactly do you charge for "electrical access"? Pay a flat fee to
unlock a charging box?
Would it be considered "selling" electricity if you accepted donations?
What if you only take the amount of money for the power that they use (no
profit)?
What's the trick to getting around this?
Rich A.
_________________________________________________________________
Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps.
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?ss=Restaurants~Hotels~Amusement%20Park&cp=33.832922~-117.915659&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=1118863&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am not going to Mt. Washington (the Prius rebuildable arrives today
and I will play with it this weekend!).
But I will get photos from Charlie. If you want them forwarded,
please shoot me an email off list.
Tom In Maine
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 6/12/07, Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Kaido Kert wrote:
> http://www.robotpower.com/products/osmc_info.html
>
> Yes, it does only 50Volts and 160Amps continous, thats 8KW , but its a
> start. Workable design that you can scale up from.
feel free to provide a 1-400v version of that circuit if it's a start
then. unknown input voltage
Huh ? Would you care to rephrase that in english ?
Whats wrong, 8KW aint enough or what ? Well, build four and put one at
each wheel. Or, go for higher voltage while redesigning the H-bridge
with higher voltage IGBTs.
You wanted an open source design, not a top of the line design.
What else do you want ? Buy a book on power electronics and motor
control design and start improving it.
-kert
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/laws/incen_laws.html
This is a US Dept of Energy website showing incentives and laws for all
AFVs (not just EVs). You can search for your state specifically. Try
the "Comprehensive Search Using All Options" button.
Beth
************************
-----Original Message-----
From: Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 8:49 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Question about DMV
Corbett,
Where in Virginia are you? You might have difficulty with your
state inspection. I think the registration won't be a problem but the
inspection might. I haven't tried it yet in Virginia Beach since my EV
isn't finished yet.
Jody
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 8:39
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Question about DMV
Hello to everyone on the list,
I am new to the scene and have been lurking on the list and reading the
conversion manuals available to me. After some research, I found a car
to convert and am going to start in a few months. I am interested in
knowing more about the registration process for this car now. I never
thought much about it until the discussion about the DMV came up.
I currently have this car registered and am driving it. Do I need to let
the DMV know that it have been converted to electric when I am done?
What are the benefits to letting them know? There is very little
emissions testing in Virginia, only select areas and I am not in one of
them, so that is not an issue.
Also, does anyone know of any tax credits, incentives, etc for
converting a vehicle to electric? I know my mom got some kind of tax
credit for buying her Prius, but do they offer anything for conversions?
Where would I find this kind of info?
thanks in advance for any input.
Corbett
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't understand how it could be illegal. Once you buy the power from
the power company it should be yours to do with as you please. Does
anyone have any information as to why it would be illegal?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marty Hewes
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 10:06
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Grassroots charging infrastructure
Rent the parking space or the outlet time and throw the power in for
free?
Gotta be a bunch of ways around that.
Marty
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I will email a pdf of the article to anyone who wishes -- please email
me off-list.
Beth
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
********************
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Rice [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 9:02 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Weights and Mesasures, WAS Tesla Motor thing.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Beth Silverman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 1:31 PM
Subject: RE: Weights and Mesasures, WAS Tesla Motor thing.
> The New York Times article about the Solectria Sunrise's Boston-to-NYC
> run was published on October 24, 1997, page B3.
>
> ************************
> Thanks Beth! Seems like only yesterday! Sigh.
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you had ever seen Otmars operation or a zilla open you would shut your
mouth and start saving up the money for a Zilla. I wouldn't EVen attempt it
unless I had a lot more soldering time under my belt. The things I do with
EV's are as primitive as a stone hammer compared to a Jack hammer weilded by
Otmar..In simple terms if you want to make a controller you will spend much
more time in learning how than is practical. The bolt in approach is much
easier/quicker/ efficient/inexpensive than trying to build one of those
controllers. An alternative is Logisystems in Texas. They are trying to
build a 156v 1000 amp controller for around a thousand dollars or less. I
hope they can do it but I suspect when they actully do it might be a little
more expensive. Maybe not. I'm still using a 144v 700 amp model they
modded for me. Lawrence Rhodes........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Frederiksen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 3:49 AM
Subject: Re: Educating Dan. Was:Re: Doers vs talkers, was Otmar is getting
rich?
> sigh. will the only speakers on this matters be idiots? is noone among
> you clearminded enough to see the truth that this could and should be
done?
> a simple inexpensive open source controller so everyone can build for
> themselves and for others to maximize the impact.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Everyone,
Can we possibly stop the thread and quit listening to Dan? His
rant is draining. It poses no value added to feed his negativity. If
we stop this thread and he continues it can be grounds to just take him
off the list.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 10:19
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Educating Dan. Was:Re: Doers vs talkers, was Otmar is
getting rich?
If you had ever seen Otmars operation or a zilla open you would shut
your mouth and start saving up the money for a Zilla. I wouldn't EVen
attempt it unless I had a lot more soldering time under my belt. The
things I do with EV's are as primitive as a stone hammer compared to a
Jack hammer weilded by Otmar..In simple terms if you want to make a
controller you will spend much more time in learning how than is
practical. The bolt in approach is much easier/quicker/
efficient/inexpensive than trying to build one of those controllers. An
alternative is Logisystems in Texas. They are trying to build a 156v
1000 amp controller for around a thousand dollars or less. I hope they
can do it but I suspect when they actully do it might be a little more
expensive. Maybe not. I'm still using a 144v 700 amp model they
modded for me. Lawrence Rhodes........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Frederiksen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 3:49 AM
Subject: Re: Educating Dan. Was:Re: Doers vs talkers, was Otmar is
getting rich?
> sigh. will the only speakers on this matters be idiots? is noone among
> you clearminded enough to see the truth that this could and should be
done?
> a simple inexpensive open source controller so everyone can build for
> themselves and for others to maximize the impact.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would imagine anyone with solar, wind, etc. generating their own
power wouldn't have any legal troubles even with a grid-tied house. A
few google searches didn't find me much on legality of electricity
resale. I wouldn't imagine anyone having problems with charging
stations due to this.
My 2 watts,
Brandon Kruger
http://bmk789.dyndns.org/ev/
http://cafepress.com/altfuel
On 6/12/07, Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I don't understand how it could be illegal. Once you buy the power from
the power company it should be yours to do with as you please. Does
anyone have any information as to why it would be illegal?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marty Hewes
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 10:06
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Grassroots charging infrastructure
Rent the parking space or the outlet time and throw the power in for
free?
Gotta be a bunch of ways around that.
Marty
--
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, obviously the first thing is to find out whether or not it is
illegal. It probably varies all over the place depending on your
utility, state, what the PUC decided or didn't decide, what sorts of
contracts the power company has, etc. The trick is to probably to
avoid become defined as a power company -- in power purchase
agreements for PV systems owned by a third party instead of the user
of the electricity that's what we have to make sure of. And "someone
mentioned" has the ring of someone who has no clue what they are
talking about but pretends that they do.... "someone mentioned" to me
last week that connecting PV system to the grid is illegal and
dangerous -- despite the fact that the power company here, a rather
conservative body, has reviewed and approved thousands of them.
Even if reselling power is strictly not allowed, I'm sure there are
ways around it. Think of campgrounds with RV hookups -- they sell
power, but probably not as directly sold power -- they are selling a
service of some sort, not power as a commodity.
Z
On 6/12/07, Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I don't understand how it could be illegal. Once you buy the power from
the power company it should be yours to do with as you please. Does
anyone have any information as to why it would be illegal?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marty Hewes
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 10:06
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Grassroots charging infrastructure
Rent the parking space or the outlet time and throw the power in for
free?
Gotta be a bunch of ways around that.
Marty
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
yeah bob me and my wife and kids pushing a solectria ev up the hill to the
house because i depleted a stinker of a pack mike young
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: Embarrassing Moments , Was: EV's are less maintenance?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Barkley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 8:46 AM
Subject: Embarrassing Moments , Was: EV's are less maintenance?
Had my first embarrassing moment - Drove all over town
this weekend, showing off the car, breaking in the
battery pack, after the local television station did a
story on it. Thought, I'll go to the bank, and cash a
check, no big deal.
When I went to leave the drive through, which every
teller drop, had about 5 cars deep in line, the EV
wouldn't budge. Had to troubleshoot the EV in the
middle of several onlookers, finding my relay, I was
using to switch on the controller had fried it's coil.
Jumpered across it, and went home to recover from the
embarrassment. Note: Never use a ford starter relay,
as a simple aux relay, seems they don't like to be
energized for extended periods - Another lesson
learned.
Has anyone else had such experiences like Bruce and I?
It might help me recover, verses having to go for
therapy.....
Hi Mike;
Good show! And for finding/fixing yur issue, dignity intact. They DO
make solenoid type relays that LOOK like Ford ones, but made for golf
carts, and won't burn up on you, being used continuously.
My early contacter controller did the disapearing act thing at a light,
years ago! Light turned, one of those 3 second jobs where people have to
MOVE to make it or wait a few weeks for the next one. Of course the Rabbit
wouldn't go! Jumped out, waved the irate folks by me to make the 3
seconder light, then had to PUSH the godamn car OVER the curb and onto the
sidewalk to clear the lane. Do ya think anybody would help me? Hah!
Titanic's coming in Thursday! DID get in the clear and found my issue:
Wire to run the contacter sequence to GO was loose to the ignition(hot)
wire. Tightened that and went on my way!At least with a contacter
controller, YOU built YOU can fix it! Not so when a squalid state one
shits out! I REALLY should wire in a maybe 2 step contacter thing to be
able to limp home WITHOUT a tow. But as Rich sez" Keep yur dues up with
the Auto Club!!"
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What brand of coil spring support are you guys using
for the Geo Metro.
I was thinking about just adding some 2" spacers...but
are there better springs for the rear or are there
some air system minus compressor?
Thanks in Advance.
Michael Golub
____________________________________________________________________________________
Bored stiff? Loosen up...
Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.
http://games.yahoo.com/games/front
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So I did some looking on the State Police website and found the basic
info that is looked at for an inspection in Virginia. Basically there
is supposed to be just a safety inspection and not really an inspection
of what is in the car. The only things that would fail or be
questionable would be this stuff. These are all items that would be
removed, but I guess if they wanted to be picky, they could fail me for
not having the correct air pollution control system :)
Anyway, the state offers a service to talk to a lawyer for 30 minutes
for $35 to interpret that laws here. I am going to do more research,
then get my 30 minute consultation. I don't want to do a conversion
that is not going to pass inspection. I am guessing that I could also
switch to a special constructed title and go that route. I have built
several VW based trikes and did that with all of them. Inspection was
easy.
14. - INSPECT EXHAUST SYSTEM FOR:
* Exhaust line-manifold, gaskets, pipes, mufflers, connections, etc.
* Leakage of gases at any point from motor to point discharged from
system.
17. - INSPECT AIR POLLUTION CONTROL SYSTEM (1973 and Subsequent Models)
FOR:
* Installation.
* Operation.
(NOTE: This includes the catalytic converter and the fuel tank
filler pipe.)
22. - INSPECT FUEL SYSTEM FOR:
* Any part that is not securely fastened.
* Liquid fuel leakage.
* Fuel tank filler cap for presence.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, I must apologize for this email. I said that I would not post again on
this subject, but, I feel compelled to answer this question:
..."there are some on this list that have serious EE and controller building
experience, why aren't you guys doing this?"
Yes, there are plenty who can design and build a controller comparable to a
Zilla. I have plenty of experience repairing industrial controllers that are
far more powerful than a Zilla. And I have enough design experience to produce
one. So then why don't I?
Because if I did it would not be cheaper. I know, by experience, that is
just what it takes to produce that product. I know that the electronics and
hardware required to make that product is going to cost that much. In fact, I
would have to say that the Zilla is really dirt cheap.
I might also add, implying that everyone but you is an idiot guarantees
resistance. Additionally, disputing and disregarding others experience is a
display of immaturity. For example:
> schematic by reverse engineering a product is not to unlock the
> “secrets” of another product.
that's exactly what reverse engineering is.
I have been doing this for over 20 years. I know what reverse engineering
is. I do it routinely to repair products that are no longer supported or no
documentation is available. There is no "secrets" to be reviled in that
process.
I already know how the item works. I reverse engineer it to trace the
layout and produce a schematic for fault analysis. My intrest is to get it
fixed
and back on line.
If you truly want to succeed in your quest, I strongly recommend rereading
Christopher Robinson's post.
OK, that is all...
Ken
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
:)
it is the reaction of the shreaking dead to clear thinking
Michaela Merz wrote:
On 11 Jun 2007 at 18:57, Jeff Shanab wrote:
I got what seemed like a bunch of smaller digests today, Did those
survey quantities take effect already?
Monday was an unusually high traffic day for the EVDL. Lots of rather
warm
threads are open right now.
Must be the high gas prices :)
mm./
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Shawn and All,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The Orange Juice racing team is headed to Quaker City Raceway
Wednesday night in search of a new DR-B (240 volt) record, 130 mph
plus, and the quickest run ever on lead AGM (10.23)....If we get real
lucky OJ may make it into the Quick 8 for the night.
It's very exciting reading your reports. Congrats on all the recent
quick runs, and thanks for pushing the envelope! I can hardly wait to
hear the results.
See Ya......John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think you got the wrong guy : )
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So I did some looking on the State Police website and found the basic
info that is looked at for an inspection in Virginia. Basically there
is supposed to be just a safety inspection and not really an inspection
of what is in the car. The only things that would fail or be
questionable would be this stuff. These are all items that would be
removed, but I guess if they wanted to be picky, they could fail me for
not having the correct air pollution control system :)
Anyway, the state offers a service to talk to a lawyer for 30 minutes
for $35 to interpret that laws here. I am going to do more research,
then get my 30 minute consultation. I don't want to do a conversion
that is not going to pass inspection. I am guessing that I could also
switch to a special constructed title and go that route. I have built
several VW based trikes and did that with all of them. Inspection was
easy.
14. - INSPECT EXHAUST SYSTEM FOR:
* Exhaust line-manifold, gaskets, pipes, mufflers, connections, etc.
* Leakage of gases at any point from motor to point discharged from
system.
17. - INSPECT AIR POLLUTION CONTROL SYSTEM (1973 and Subsequent Models)
FOR:
* Installation.
* Operation.
(NOTE: This includes the catalytic converter and the fuel tank
filler pipe.)
22. - INSPECT FUEL SYSTEM FOR:
* Any part that is not securely fastened.
* Liquid fuel leakage.
* Fuel tank filler cap for presence.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
If I am driving on a curve at 60 miles an hour and there is a 1/2 second
of a locked wheel, I am no longer the driver, just a passenger. You are
thinking of straight line open freeway only Victor.
I think the best way to sum this up is equal but different :-)
Yes; that's my take on it, too. If we are talking about a little drive,
like 30kw peak in a 3000 lbs car, then a "full on" DC motor failure is
only mild acceleration; easily countered by the driver with the brake
pedal. And an AC motor "full stop" failure is only modest braking, that
won't lock the wheels or prevent steering.
These failures become truly dangerous when you have a high power drive
system that *can* spin the tires or lock the wheels!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Brandon Kruger wrote:
About the standalone pay charger, I think this could be done fairly
easily if I could get some kind of weatherproof housing similar to a
parking meter to house the hardware in. I believe these stations
could be hand-built for $500 each at the absolute most. Future
versions could include credit card scanners, or an internet
connection to bill to an account that would be controlled via the
web. Lots of potential for these devices.
The main stumbling block is legal, not technical. In virtually every
locale in the USA, your local power company demanded and was granted a
legal monopoly on selling power. This was done nearly 100 years ago,
when they were first intalling "the grid". The rationale was that nobody
would build powerplants and run powerlines to every home unless they
could be guaranteed of a monopoly -- it would be unworkable to have
competing power companies and duplicate wiring.
So, there are no coin-operated outlets. You either give the power away
for free, or get your local utility to install a meter and sell it
themselves (and they don't do coin-operated meters).
Even today, the utilities vigorously fight any attempt to break this
monopoly. Ask anyone who has tried to generate their own power and sell
it to anyone except their local utility (who will only buy it on *their*
terms).
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
