EV Digest 6881
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Toyota makes an EV
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) unsubscribe
by Rodney A <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) gas taxes...
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
4) RE: gas taxes...
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Towing an EV
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) EV achilles' heel
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: 2007 Power of DC Photo and Video Gallery
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Towing an EV
by "Don Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: EV achilles' heel
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: EV achilles' heel
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: 2007 Power of DC Photo and Video Gallery
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Fined for not paying gas tax
by "Richard Acuti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) DC/DC converter needed for project
by "Roger Daisley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Fined for not paying gas tax
by "Randall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: EV achilles' heel
by "Marty Hewes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: EV achilles' heel
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Alternative controller project
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: New Subscriber
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/news/04/1203_1e.html
but they only made 50 and there are no plans to sell them. No info on
top speed :-(
--- End Message ---
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Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing.
http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/index.php
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--- Begin Message ---
1) guy converts diesel to run on veggie oil.
2) NC tax people come after him, wanting his first born, for "tax"
reasons.
The gist of my concern (in the article) is:
Folks that use the road, have to pay road-use taxes, which are bundled
into the price of gasoline and diesel.
Of course, Electric Vehicles don't pay this tax....because we don't use
gasoline.
Moreover, vehicles that get better fuel economy pay less tax (I found an
article about that - be prepared in the future for the DMV to begin
retrieving our odometer readings for miles-driven taxation purposes; who
knows, probably already happens in some states, and certainly does for
"business" or personally owned "business use" vehicles).
Here's the math (its simple, even I can do it).
Average miles traveled: 12000
Average MPG (for my camry): 22
Thats ~ 545 gallons.
NC charges 29.9 cents a gallon (according to the article).
(I'm sure its more like 29.999 cents)
.299 * 545 = ~ 162...
Thats $162 a year in taxes (NC State)
This website
http://www.gaspricewatch.com/usgastaxes.asp
indicates Federal tax is 18.4 cents per gallon.
18.4 * 545 = ~100.28
(What are the federal and state taxes on our electric bill? I donno,
haven't looked; I would guess that this *could* be subtracted, to keep the
SOBs in government totally honest).
(note: I don't like big government; I could go on, but I doubt you'd
appreciate it).
Anyway.
The article states that this guy is getting charged $1000 fine, for NC
state taxes (what about county? city?).
Either way, I'm concerned.
(Finally) - Here's my question:
Are the Tax people going to come after us (I use "us" as a generic term;
us EVers, or more specifically, us NC EVers...) because uncle thief wants
more tax revenue?
What recourse do we have (federally, or statewise) - if any?
Has anyone heard of this happening before?
Do we get rewarded (pay less tax) because we're trying to "save the
environment" - "protect the US from terrorists by not giving them money"
(etc, pick a reason for why you drive electric).
Additional comments, and Charlotte Observer article below...
I'd like to own a gas station, and say "Gasoline, $2.00 a gallon, PLUS TAX
(to let people know how much the government gets).
If folks knew how much tax they paid, think they'd get a little upset?
(I'm sure thats why the politicos hide as much tax as they can).
Note: I'm not trying to "get one over on the government that provides the
roads" - I should "help pay" for the road. Not a problem.
Please don't carp about me trying to avoid "paying my fair share" -
What I don't want is for the evil succubus tax person to come after me 3
years hence, and decide I should pay $5k in taxes, and another $10k in
fines.
http://www.charlotte.com/112/story/153260.html
THOSE WHO MAKE THEIR OWN ENVIRONMENT-FRIENDLY GAS CAN AVOID PAIN AT THE
PUMP BUT NOT THE TAXES.
A price to pay for alternative fuels
BRUCE HENDERSON
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bob Teixeira re-applies a sticker touting an alternative fuel he uses in
his car. He plans to fight to change fuel-tax laws that have hit his
wallet.Bob Teixeira decided it was time to take a stand against U.S.
dependence on foreign oil.
So last fall the Charlotte musician and guitar instructor spent $1,200 to
convert his 1981 diesel Mercedes to run on vegetable oil. He bought
soybean oil in 5-gallon jugs at Costco, spending about 30 percent more
than diesel would cost.
His reward, from a state that heavily promotes alternative fuels: a $1,000
fine last month for not paying motor fuel taxes.
He's been told to expect another $1,000 fine from the federal government.
And to legally use veggie oil, state officials told him, he would have to
first post a $2,500 bond.
Teixeira is one of a growing number of fuel-it-yourselfers -- backyard
brewers who recycle restaurant grease or make moonshine for their car
tanks. They do it to save money, reduce pollution or thumb their noses at
oil sheiks.
They're also caught in a web of little-known state laws that can stifle
energy independence.
State Sen. Stan Bingham, R-Davidson, is known around Raleigh for his
diesel Volkswagen fueled by used soybean oil. The car sports a "Goodbye,
OPEC" sign.
"If somebody was going to go to this much trouble to drive around in a car
that uses soybean oil, they ought to be exempt" from state taxes, he said.
The N.C. Department of Revenue, which fined Teixeira, has asked
legislators to waive the $2,500 bond for small fuel users. The department
also told Teixeira, after the Observer asked about his case this week,
that it will compromise on his fine.
But officials say they'll keep pursuing taxes on all fuels used in highway
vehicles. With its 29.9-cent a gallon gas tax, the state collects $1.2
billion each year to pay for road construction.
"With the high cost of fuel right now, the department does recognize that
a lot of people are looking for relief," said Reggie Little, assistant
director of the motor fuel taxes division. "We're not here to hurt the
small guy, we're just trying to make sure that the playing field is
level."
Use promoted, little regulation
State policies firmly endorse alternative fuels.In 2005 legislators
directed state agencies to replace 20 percent of their annual petroleum
use with alternatives by 2010. About 6,000 of the state's 8,500 vehicles
are equipped to use ethanol. The state fleet also includes about 135
gas-electric hybrids.
Few states, however, are prepared to regulate the new fuels, says the
National VegOil Board, which promotes vegetable oil fuel.
"State offices do not have the forms to appropriately and fairly deal with
VegOil, nor the staff to enforce the non-existent forms," said director
Cynthia Shelton. "So either they tell people inquiring about compliance to
get lost, or they make them jump through a bunch of arbitrary hoops."
Outraged Illinois legislators this spring quickly waived that state's
$2,500 bond requirement when an elderly man was nabbed for using waste
vegetable oil.
In the mountain district of state Sen. John Snow, D-Cherokee, home-brewed
ethanol was once known as moonshine. But a couple of constituents who made
it for fuel have been fined for the same tax violation that got Teixeira
in trouble.
Snow has introduced several bills to promote biodiesel, which under state
law includes vegetable oil.
"One of the biggest problems in the state is a real lack of information
for people who want to use alternative fuels," said Snow's research
assistant, Jonathan Ducote. "It's just now appearing on (regulators')
radar."
Done in by bumper sticker
Teixeira's story began near Lowe's Motor Speedway on May 14. As
recreational vehicles streamed in for race week, revenue investigators
were checking fuel tanks of diesel RVs for illegal fuel.
The investigators quickly spotted Teixeira's passing bumper sticker:
"Powered by 100% vegetable oil."
"It was like some twist of fate that put me there," he said. "It was like
I was asking for them to stop me."
Teixeira says revenue officials are just doing their jobs. But he thinks
it's unfair that he was lumped with people who purposely try to avoid fuel
taxes.
"Individuals who are trying to do the right thing environmentally cannot
and should not continue to take this kind of financial hit," he wrote Gov.
Mike Easley.
Teixeira says he'll pay the state fine and apply for a state fuel license.
But pumping regular diesel again "broke my heart."
"I'm ready to get myself legal," he said, "and start using vegetable oil
again."
Alternative Fuel Vehicles*
North CarolinaDiesel 118,479
Flex fuel 121,547
(ethanol capable)
Hybrid 11,758
Total 251,784
South Carolina
Diesel 54,786
Flex fuel 68,303
Hybrid 3,264
Total 126,353
*Registered as of July 2006
SOURCE: Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers
More on Fuel Taxes
Piedmont Biofuels, a biodiesel cooperative in Pittsboro, posts links to
state tax laws on its Web site: http://biofuels.coop/general
-information/taxes//. The N.C. Department of Revenue's motor fuels tax
division has a toll-free number: 877-308-9092.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I agree on paying fair share. The problem is we are cutting new ground
here and a lot of these issues just haven't come up before. I am
sending an email to my local congressman to see if he is doing anything
law wise to asses taxes for EV cars and people who are making their own
fuel. I don't want to end up being fined for not paying road tax.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 9:35
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: gas taxes...
1) guy converts diesel to run on veggie oil.
2) NC tax people come after him, wanting his first born, for "tax"
reasons.
The gist of my concern (in the article) is:
Folks that use the road, have to pay road-use taxes, which are bundled
into the price of gasoline and diesel.
Of course, Electric Vehicles don't pay this tax....because we don't use
gasoline.
Moreover, vehicles that get better fuel economy pay less tax (I found an
article about that - be prepared in the future for the DMV to begin
retrieving our odometer readings for miles-driven taxation purposes; who
knows, probably already happens in some states, and certainly does for
"business" or personally owned "business use" vehicles).
Here's the math (its simple, even I can do it).
Average miles traveled: 12000
Average MPG (for my camry): 22
Thats ~ 545 gallons.
NC charges 29.9 cents a gallon (according to the article).
(I'm sure its more like 29.999 cents)
.299 * 545 = ~ 162...
Thats $162 a year in taxes (NC State)
This website
http://www.gaspricewatch.com/usgastaxes.asp
indicates Federal tax is 18.4 cents per gallon.
18.4 * 545 = ~100.28
(What are the federal and state taxes on our electric bill? I donno,
haven't looked; I would guess that this *could* be subtracted, to keep
the SOBs in government totally honest).
(note: I don't like big government; I could go on, but I doubt you'd
appreciate it).
Anyway.
The article states that this guy is getting charged $1000 fine, for NC
state taxes (what about county? city?).
Either way, I'm concerned.
(Finally) - Here's my question:
Are the Tax people going to come after us (I use "us" as a generic term;
us EVers, or more specifically, us NC EVers...) because uncle thief
wants more tax revenue?
What recourse do we have (federally, or statewise) - if any?
Has anyone heard of this happening before?
Do we get rewarded (pay less tax) because we're trying to "save the
environment" - "protect the US from terrorists by not giving them money"
(etc, pick a reason for why you drive electric).
Additional comments, and Charlotte Observer article below...
I'd like to own a gas station, and say "Gasoline, $2.00 a gallon, PLUS
TAX (to let people know how much the government gets).
If folks knew how much tax they paid, think they'd get a little upset?
(I'm sure thats why the politicos hide as much tax as they can).
Note: I'm not trying to "get one over on the government that provides
the roads" - I should "help pay" for the road. Not a problem.
Please don't carp about me trying to avoid "paying my fair share" - What
I don't want is for the evil succubus tax person to come after me 3
years hence, and decide I should pay $5k in taxes, and another $10k in
fines.
http://www.charlotte.com/112/story/153260.html
THOSE WHO MAKE THEIR OWN ENVIRONMENT-FRIENDLY GAS CAN AVOID PAIN AT THE
PUMP BUT NOT THE TAXES.
A price to pay for alternative fuels
BRUCE HENDERSON
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bob Teixeira re-applies a sticker touting an alternative fuel he uses
in his car. He plans to fight to change fuel-tax laws that have hit his
wallet.Bob Teixeira decided it was time to take a stand against U.S.
dependence on foreign oil.
So last fall the Charlotte musician and guitar instructor spent $1,200
to convert his 1981 diesel Mercedes to run on vegetable oil. He bought
soybean oil in 5-gallon jugs at Costco, spending about 30 percent more
than diesel would cost.
His reward, from a state that heavily promotes alternative fuels: a
$1,000 fine last month for not paying motor fuel taxes.
He's been told to expect another $1,000 fine from the federal
government.
And to legally use veggie oil, state officials told him, he would have
to first post a $2,500 bond.
Teixeira is one of a growing number of fuel-it-yourselfers -- backyard
brewers who recycle restaurant grease or make moonshine for their car
tanks. They do it to save money, reduce pollution or thumb their noses
at oil sheiks.
They're also caught in a web of little-known state laws that can stifle
energy independence.
State Sen. Stan Bingham, R-Davidson, is known around Raleigh for his
diesel Volkswagen fueled by used soybean oil. The car sports a "Goodbye,
OPEC" sign.
"If somebody was going to go to this much trouble to drive around in a
car that uses soybean oil, they ought to be exempt" from state taxes, he
said.
The N.C. Department of Revenue, which fined Teixeira, has asked
legislators to waive the $2,500 bond for small fuel users. The
department also told Teixeira, after the Observer asked about his case
this week, that it will compromise on his fine.
But officials say they'll keep pursuing taxes on all fuels used in
highway vehicles. With its 29.9-cent a gallon gas tax, the state
collects $1.2 billion each year to pay for road construction.
"With the high cost of fuel right now, the department does recognize
that a lot of people are looking for relief," said Reggie Little,
assistant director of the motor fuel taxes division. "We're not here to
hurt the small guy, we're just trying to make sure that the playing
field is level."
Use promoted, little regulation
State policies firmly endorse alternative fuels.In 2005 legislators
directed state agencies to replace 20 percent of their annual petroleum
use with alternatives by 2010. About 6,000 of the state's 8,500 vehicles
are equipped to use ethanol. The state fleet also includes about 135
gas-electric hybrids.
Few states, however, are prepared to regulate the new fuels, says the
National VegOil Board, which promotes vegetable oil fuel.
"State offices do not have the forms to appropriately and fairly deal
with VegOil, nor the staff to enforce the non-existent forms," said
director Cynthia Shelton. "So either they tell people inquiring about
compliance to get lost, or they make them jump through a bunch of
arbitrary hoops."
Outraged Illinois legislators this spring quickly waived that state's
$2,500 bond requirement when an elderly man was nabbed for using waste
vegetable oil.
In the mountain district of state Sen. John Snow, D-Cherokee,
home-brewed ethanol was once known as moonshine. But a couple of
constituents who made it for fuel have been fined for the same tax
violation that got Teixeira in trouble.
Snow has introduced several bills to promote biodiesel, which under
state law includes vegetable oil.
"One of the biggest problems in the state is a real lack of information
for people who want to use alternative fuels," said Snow's research
assistant, Jonathan Ducote. "It's just now appearing on (regulators')
radar."
Done in by bumper sticker
Teixeira's story began near Lowe's Motor Speedway on May 14. As
recreational vehicles streamed in for race week, revenue investigators
were checking fuel tanks of diesel RVs for illegal fuel.
The investigators quickly spotted Teixeira's passing bumper sticker:
"Powered by 100% vegetable oil."
"It was like some twist of fate that put me there," he said. "It was
like I was asking for them to stop me."
Teixeira says revenue officials are just doing their jobs. But he thinks
it's unfair that he was lumped with people who purposely try to avoid
fuel taxes.
"Individuals who are trying to do the right thing environmentally cannot
and should not continue to take this kind of financial hit," he wrote
Gov.
Mike Easley.
Teixeira says he'll pay the state fine and apply for a state fuel
license.
But pumping regular diesel again "broke my heart."
"I'm ready to get myself legal," he said, "and start using vegetable oil
again."
Alternative Fuel Vehicles*
North CarolinaDiesel 118,479
Flex fuel 121,547
(ethanol capable)
Hybrid 11,758
Total 251,784
South Carolina
Diesel 54,786
Flex fuel 68,303
Hybrid 3,264
Total 126,353
*Registered as of July 2006
SOURCE: Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers
More on Fuel Taxes
Piedmont Biofuels, a biodiesel cooperative in Pittsboro, posts links to
state tax laws on its Web site: http://biofuels.coop/general
-information/taxes//. The N.C. Department of Revenue's motor fuels tax
division has a toll-free number: 877-308-9092.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Don, an' EVerybody;
I towed my Rabbit all over hell and gone for YEARS! Just leave it in
neutrel. Now a Corvair, Thats another issue. I destroyed a Corvair tranny by
towing it in neutral, for about 1800 miles. So it depends on the design of
the tranny, or if really in doubt, just leave it in high gear, chances are
ya arent gunna tow the car faster than it would GO in hi gear.It's a lube
thing, some trannies need to be turning to "Oil" everything, inside.I guess
the designer of the thing never figgured the car would GO for thousands of
miles in Neutral? I would say this is the safest way to tow tranny ,
standard, cars?I guess if you were gunna go from Portland to Portland, Or to
ME, you could just take your motor brushes out, if worried about that.
That's how they hauled subway cars from, St Louis to NYC,or Philly, back in
the daze when we actually BUILT things(St Louis Car) in the USA. I think
towing zillions of miles is a nice way to seat new brushes?
Just remember to make damn sure your pins and hookup stuff is SECURE for
towbarring!!I spealk from bitter experiance here. No I'm not down on
towbarring, I'm planning a tow bar setup for my Jetta. Old Rabbit towbar
survived ok.Sure easier than dealing with a trailer!Although you don't wear
out your car towing it on it's wheels, if it's snuggled down on a nice
trailer.Can argue ether way. I think Towbarring is good for shorter hauls.
Just a few towable thoughts.
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV_Discussion_Group" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 6:13 AM
Subject: Towing an EV
I plan on towing my EV's using tow bars. If the EV's manual transmission is
in "neutral" the motor is disconnected from the driveshaft, correct? Will I
be damaging the motor towing the EV in this manner?
Thanks
Don B. Davidson III
Rome NY
[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.15/847 - Release Date: 6/12/2007
9:42 PM
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think everyone can live with the cost of replacing lead acids once in
a while, and the energy loss in them from common discharge and even
assuming some heads would pop out of dark odorfilled areas and we would
fix the electronics cost for conversions we still have the EVs current
achilles' heel, the range.
how many have tried using a small combustion engine for range extension
in EVs? I imagine for instance a turbocharged 250cc motorcycle engine or
even look into the possibility of using a tesla turbine because of its
simplicity and potentially very compact size. (presumably run very
smoothly too)
anyone tried auxiliary combustion? I know JB Straubel did a trailer but
that was a full size car motor as opposed to a small onboard one.
is everyone driving pure EV?
Dan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Give Heidi our thanks. She takes videos and pictures like a pro! She
sure captured the excitement of the event.
Yea, good point about the fun despite the rain. You can hardly tell
it was raining Sunday with all the activity that Heidi captured and
the videos are fantastic.
http://www.powerofdc.com/gallery.html
Chip
On Jun 13, 2007, at 9:29 AM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: June 13, 2007 9:03:13 AM EDT
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: 2007 Power of DC Photo and Video Gallery
Hey Chip!
Thanks for putting those up.
Just to be fair, Heidi took at least 90% of those pics and all of
the video's.
I really feel good about a bunch of people who can still have fun
even if their fun is rained out!
Now that's what I'm talking about!
Ken
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
* This post contains a forbidden message format *
* (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
* Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT *
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* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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--- Begin Message ---
Some people have used pusher trailers. On austinEV there are a couple
of people who have made a pusher from an old front wheel drive car with
an umbilical that connects the control equipment to the car.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dan Frederiksen
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 10:07
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: EV achilles' heel
I think everyone can live with the cost of replacing lead acids once in
a while, and the energy loss in them from common discharge and even
assuming some heads would pop out of dark odorfilled areas and we would
fix the electronics cost for conversions we still have the EVs current
achilles' heel, the range.
how many have tried using a small combustion engine for range extension
in EVs? I imagine for instance a turbocharged 250cc motorcycle engine or
even look into the possibility of using a tesla turbine because of its
simplicity and potentially very compact size. (presumably run very
smoothly too)
anyone tried auxiliary combustion? I know JB Straubel did a trailer but
that was a full size car motor as opposed to a small onboard one.
is everyone driving pure EV?
Dan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Frederiksen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 10:07 AM
Subject: EV achilles' heel
I think everyone can live with the cost of replacing lead acids once in a
while, and the energy loss in them from common discharge and even assuming
some heads would pop out of dark odorfilled areas and we would fix the
electronics cost for conversions we still have the EVs current achilles'
heel, the range.
how many have tried using a small combustion engine for range extension in
EVs? I imagine for instance a turbocharged 250cc motorcycle engine or even
look into the possibility of using a tesla turbine because of its
simplicity and potentially very compact size. (presumably run very
smoothly too)
anyone tried auxiliary combustion? I know JB Straubel did a trailer but
that was a full size car motor as opposed to a small onboard one.
is everyone driving pure EV?
Dan
Hi Dan;
Some guys have used the front clip of a front wheel drive small automatic
car, setup like a trailer as a "pusher" setup. Tricky stuff here is the
controlling it from the EV cockpit. Ed Sharky out in CA did a very neat VW
Rabbit one as well as a clipped off VW Bug rear end. I guess any reasonable
small car can play, if yur handy setting it up like a trailer, best as a FWD
one, then you have all the emmissions crap in place, so you are still a good
clean citizen?
Seeya
Bob
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database:
269.8.15/847 - Release Date: 6/12/2007 9:42 PM
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Good job, great photos nice web site
thanks from the left coast
kEVs
--- Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The Power of DC Photo and Video Gallery is up.
>
> http://www.powerofdc.com/gallery.html
>
> Photos and videos courtesy of Ken Thomas, aka
> "Kenscircus." Thanks Ken!!
>
> You have to catch the video of the Great Mills MR-2
> that actually
> winks and all the burnout videos.
>
> There are photos of Dave Cover's Porsche, Shawn
> Lawless' OJ, AGNuS
> and Nash Electropolitan, Darin Gilbert's Pirahna,
> Joe Lado's hot
> yellow Destiny 2000 Fiero, Mike Harvey's cool
> Cabriolet and Vallery
> Myer's sweet blue Sparrow and more.
>
> Chip
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Obviously, this is outrageous and completely contradictory. It was good to
read that in Illinois, the legislature fixed it pretty quickly.
It's exactly as I said in my earlier post about the DMV: Currently, the
Federal, state and local governments have no idea how to properly & fairly
regulate or inspect electric or other alternate fuel vehicles. Now I want to
be as fully in compliance of the law as possible but when the law isn't
written to consider our particular circumstances, I'm not going to let some
jackass at the DMV or some busybody "revenu'er" try to twist the existing
law to apply to me, and then punish me.
We as a group, are obviously not trying to dodge taxes, we are trying to
drive cleaner, cheaper and independently of foreign powers and domestic
corporate entities.
I've got "EV pride" but I scraped the "electric vehicle" decals off my rear
window a long time ago.
Rich A.
From: "David S" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Fined for not paying gas tax.
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 08:07:18 -0500
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Language: en-us
Driver ticketed for using biofuel
Vegetable oil sticks him with $1,000 fine
http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/599471.html
Yes the article is biofuel but could be about any fuel including
electricity.
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The only item missing from my inventory of parts needed for my VW conversion
is a DC/DC converter. I'm running a 96v pack and only need a nominal DC/DC
converter for vehicle lights, etc. (Will be using with normal vehicle
battery.)
Prices and ideas seem to range from the cheap to exotic. Frankly, I'm
confused and don't want to spend $1,000+ on a "gold-plated" converter or
$19.99 on a cheap battery charger from Harbor Freight that probably won't
work, anyway. I'd appreciate any off-list suggestions for a good economical,
reliable and safe converter. Maybe you even have one laying around that is
gathering dust and still has the smoke inside ... I'm open for offers to
purchase.
Roger Daisley
Pullman, WA
http://ElectricVW.blogspot.com
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Here is a snippet of the note that I passed on to the reporter to be
forwarded to the fella that got the fine:
Bruce,
As a follow up to yesterday, I think he should protest the entire episode
because either the fuel he is using is BioDiesel (not really), Diesel Fuel
or an Alternative Fuel according to NCGS. Unless NC wants to argue that
the fuel he is using was designated for OffRoad/Exempt use ONLY, the
liability for the collection of the Motor Fuel tax is either on the producer
or the distributor -- in both cases it would be Costco.
Now, if they want to argue that it is an Alternative Fuel, then he should
never have been charged a Sales Tax by Costco...and I am sure that Costco
can argue lack of knowledge of the use of the "fuel"...however, it is well
known that vegetable oil can be used as a fuel since Rudolf Diesel
originally designed the motor to use peanut oil in the 19th century.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel#Applications Perhaps, stores should be
required to ask if the vegetable oil will be used in a motor vehicle or for
cooking. :-)
In any case, he should NOT be subject to paying any additional taxes on the
fuel according to:
NCGS 105-449.61. Tax restrictions; administration.
(a) No Local Tax. - A county or city may not impose a tax on the
sale, distribution, or use of motor fuel.
(b) No Double Tax. - The tax imposed by this Chapter applies only
once on the same motor fuel.
So...it appears that NC must decide if he has a fuel in his car, or if it is
not a fuel. If it is a fuel, then is it Diesel Fuel or is it an Alternative
Fuel??
------------------------------------
Article 36C. -- Gasoline, Diesel, and Blends.
NCGS § 105-449.60. Definitions.
The following definitions apply in this Article:
(1) Biodiesel. - Any fuel or mixture of fuels derived in whole or in
part from agricultural products or animal fats or wastes from these products
or fats.
...
(7) Diesel fuel. - Any liquid, other than gasoline, that is suitable
for use as a fuel in a diesel-powered highway vehicle. The term includes
biodiesel, fuel oil, heating oil, high-sulfur dyed diesel fuel, and
kerosene. The term does not include jet fuel sold to a buyer who is
certified to purchase jet fuel under the Code.
...
(20) Motor fuel. - Gasoline, diesel fuel, and blended fuel.
-----------------------------------
Article 36D. -- Alternative Fuel.
NCGS § 105-449.130. Definitions.
The following definitions apply in this Article:
(1) Alternative fuel. - A combustible gas or liquid that can be used
to generate power to operate a highway vehicle and that is not subject to
tax under Article 36C of this Chapter.
NCGS § 105-449.137. Liability for and payment of the tax.
(a) Liability. - A bulk-end user or retailer that stores highway and
nonhighway alternative fuel in the same storage facility is liable for the
tax imposed by this Article. The tax payable by a bulk-end user or retailer
applies when fuel is withdrawn from the storage facility. The alternative
fuel provider that sells or delivers alternative fuel is liable for the tax
imposed by this Article on all other alternative fuel.
NCGS § 105-164.13 Alternative Fuel Tax Exemption
The retail sale, use, storage or consumption of alternative fuels is exempt
from the state retail sales and use tax.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Acuti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: Fined for not paying gas tax
Obviously, this is outrageous and completely contradictory. It was good to
read that in Illinois, the legislature fixed it pretty quickly.
It's exactly as I said in my earlier post about the DMV: Currently, the
Federal, state and local governments have no idea how to properly & fairly
regulate or inspect electric or other alternate fuel vehicles. Now I want
to be as fully in compliance of the law as possible but when the law isn't
written to consider our particular circumstances, I'm not going to let
some jackass at the DMV or some busybody "revenu'er" try to twist the
existing law to apply to me, and then punish me.
We as a group, are obviously not trying to dodge taxes, we are trying to
drive cleaner, cheaper and independently of foreign powers and domestic
corporate entities.
I've got "EV pride" but I scraped the "electric vehicle" decals off my
rear window a long time ago.
Rich A.
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I've considered a veggie oil diesel or a propane generator that could double
as a backup for the house or shop during a power failure. But don't kid
yourself, it takes a big generator to extend range significantly, and the
setup is less efficient than driving a gas car. I'd consider it for things
like getting the EV to a show or race instead of trailering, and I needed
on-site recharging anyway. Otherwise I'd drive something else.
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: EV achilles' heel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Frederiksen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 10:07 AM
Subject: EV achilles' heel
I think everyone can live with the cost of replacing lead acids once in a
while, and the energy loss in them from common discharge and even assuming
some heads would pop out of dark odorfilled areas and we would fix the
electronics cost for conversions we still have the EVs current achilles'
heel, the range.
how many have tried using a small combustion engine for range extension
in EVs? I imagine for instance a turbocharged 250cc motorcycle engine or
even look into the possibility of using a tesla turbine because of its
simplicity and potentially very compact size. (presumably run very
smoothly too)
anyone tried auxiliary combustion? I know JB Straubel did a trailer but
that was a full size car motor as opposed to a small onboard one.
is everyone driving pure EV?
Dan
Hi Dan;
Some guys have used the front clip of a front wheel drive small
automatic car, setup like a trailer as a "pusher" setup. Tricky stuff here
is the controlling it from the EV cockpit. Ed Sharky out in CA did a very
neat VW Rabbit one as well as a clipped off VW Bug rear end. I guess any
reasonable small car can play, if yur handy setting it up like a trailer,
best as a FWD one, then you have all the emmissions crap in place, so you
are still a good clean citizen?
Seeya
Bob
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database:
269.8.15/847 - Release Date: 6/12/2007 9:42 PM
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If you wanted it for charging consider adding a power head from a
generator. One can get a 10,000 watt power head from Harborfrieght for
$299. Then use the car to push the EV on the road and when you get to
where you are going you can use the engine to charge the batteries.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marty Hewes
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 10:50
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: EV achilles' heel
I've considered a veggie oil diesel or a propane generator that could
double as a backup for the house or shop during a power failure. But
don't kid yourself, it takes a big generator to extend range
significantly, and the setup is less efficient than driving a gas car.
I'd consider it for things like getting the EV to a show or race instead
of trailering, and I needed on-site recharging anyway. Otherwise I'd
drive something else.
Marty
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: EV achilles' heel
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dan Frederiksen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 10:07 AM
> Subject: EV achilles' heel
>
>
>>I think everyone can live with the cost of replacing lead acids once
in a
>>while, and the energy loss in them from common discharge and even
assuming
>>some heads would pop out of dark odorfilled areas and we would fix the
>>electronics cost for conversions we still have the EVs current
achilles'
>>heel, the range.
>>
>> how many have tried using a small combustion engine for range
extension
>> in EVs? I imagine for instance a turbocharged 250cc motorcycle engine
or
>> even look into the possibility of using a tesla turbine because of
its
>> simplicity and potentially very compact size. (presumably run very
>> smoothly too)
>>
>> anyone tried auxiliary combustion? I know JB Straubel did a trailer
but
>> that was a full size car motor as opposed to a small onboard one.
>> is everyone driving pure EV?
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> Hi Dan;
>
> Some guys have used the front clip of a front wheel drive small
> automatic car, setup like a trailer as a "pusher" setup. Tricky stuff
here
> is the controlling it from the EV cockpit. Ed Sharky out in CA did a
very
> neat VW Rabbit one as well as a clipped off VW Bug rear end. I guess
any
> reasonable small car can play, if yur handy setting it up like a
trailer,
> best as a FWD one, then you have all the emmissions crap in place, so
you
> are still a good clean citizen?
>
> Seeya
>
> Bob
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database:
>> 269.8.15/847 - Release Date: 6/12/2007 9:42 PM
>>
>>
>
>
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Ian Hooper wrote:
While I don't disagree with charging at work being a good idea to reduce
battery requirements, I think you could a 90 mile range with about $10K
worth of lithium.
Going with ~200 Wh/mile for a small car like a Fiero or Del Sol, let's
say you need a 20kWh pack.
With lead acid, that'd be something like 25 Trojan T105s, which would
weigh over 1500 pounds - obviously not feasible in a small sports car!
And you wouldn't be able to get 200Wh/mile, that's for sure.
It's not impossible with lead-acid; but it sure isn't easy.
As people have mentioned, a pickup truck full of batteries could do it.
For example, the Red Beastie (though it took 40 golf cart batteries).
No modern pickup is "small" any more, so you may have to find a good
1970's mini-pickup to make this affordable. For example, my first EV was
a 1974 Datsun mini-pickup; it could carry a 120v pack of 6v golf cart
batteries without exceeding GVWR and get a 100-mile range.
The other way is a scratch-built EV (not a conversion). It can be much
lighter and stronger than a normal car, and so safely carry more of its
weight in batteries. Bob McKee's Sundancer EVs were little 2-seater
sports cars the size and weight of a 1960's MG Midget, but carried half
their weight in batteries; they went 120 miles on a charge with just 12
golf cart batteries.
Or, you could join us in building a Sunrise kit car. This is a scratch
built 4-seater that has gone over 100 miles per charge on ordinary
lead-acid batteries as well.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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