EV Digest 7051
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: message truncated
by "Eric Udell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Speed Indication Issue - Toyota Yaris Conversion
by Mark Dutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: message truncated
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: oversized motor?
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: "Tree House" Controller
by "Dale Ulan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: What is the typical amperage draw of the field for a sepex motor?
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: "Message truncated" problem
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Temperature indicators
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: amps during normal driving
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: 6v or 12v
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: What is the typical amperage draw of the field for a sepex motor?
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: "Tree House" Controller
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: amps during normal driving
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Temperature indicators
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) RE: 1st street ev smile/frown
by "Obrien, Haskell W." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: "Tree House" Controller
by "Dale Ulan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Temperature indicators
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) Re: amps during normal driving - Zilla and other overspeed protection
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
19) Re: "Tree House" Controller
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Speed Indication Issue - Toyota Yaris Conversion
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Driving in reverse, spastic moves
by "Deanne Mott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: "Tree House" Controller
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: What is the typical amperage draw of the field for a sepex motor?
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Dc to Dc ?s
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: What is the typical amperage draw of the field for a sepex motor?
by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
If anyone would like to use Gmail for their email client, I would
recommend it. It can check your existing email and has very good spam
filtering. I use it for my email from my own server and it's better
than any other spam filter I've used.
It is advertising supported, but they're text ads along the right side
and they don't dance around in a distracting manner.
Creating text-only emails is easy, there's a link at the top of the
email creation box to change modes. Gmail remembers the recipients to
whom you send text-only emails. When I created this email it defaulted
to text-only.
Finally, I don't think I've ever seen them add any advertising to the
bottom of my emails, though considering my track record on this
thread, it'll make a liar out of me...
Eric Udell
Big Pine Key, FL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The speed sensor is on the FWD transmission, it has three wires on it
but they were not twisted as best I could tell, I wonder if the HV
system is causing interference, if so would this cause it to be slow
or just erratic. There is no ABS,
M
On Jul 23, 2007, at 6:17 AM, Mark Ward wrote:
Make sure it is not something silly like I did, assuming that
everything ran off the front wheels. On my saab the speedo runs
off the right rear wheel ABS sensor. I could have spun it up all
day and it wouldn't have read anything. If the onboard computers
are still intact it may be looking for signals from all 4 wheels
before it registers correctly. Of course that assumes you have
ABS, wheel sensors, etc. I am sure glad I didn't cut out any of
my computers!
Mark Ward
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
----- Original Message ----- From: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 3:36 AM
Subject: Re: Speed Indication Issue - Toyota Yaris Conversion
On 7/23/07, Mark Dutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
We are using the factory speed sensor system as originally
installed. The first operational test shows the factory speedometer
reading as very low, below what should be the actual speed. We ran
the motor with the car on jack stands and watched the rotation of
the
tires against the speedometer indication. The speedometer seems
very
low, off by at least 50% if not more
Are both the tyres rotating at the same speed when you do this?
Usually one turns and the other doesn't, and the spinning wheel will
turn twice as fast as it would normally, for that road speed.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mozilla thunderbird allows per message control over formatting. I use that
Eric Udell wrote:
If anyone would like to use Gmail for their email client, I would
recommend it. It can check your existing email and has very good spam
filtering. I use it for my email from my own server and it's better
than any other spam filter I've used.
It is advertising supported, but they're text ads along the right side
and they don't dance around in a distracting manner.
Creating text-only emails is easy, there's a link at the top of the
email creation box to change modes. Gmail remembers the recipients to
whom you send text-only emails. When I created this email it defaulted
to text-only.
Finally, I don't think I've ever seen them add any advertising to the
bottom of my emails, though considering my track record on this
thread, it'll make a liar out of me...
Eric Udell
Big Pine Key, FL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jeremy,
Motor "way too" big? My guess is no. You could
probably get by with less. Depends on your objectives
and system design. Not familiar with Suzuki Alto.
Just saw a picture of one on google. Looks like a
fairly small compact 4 door. Didn't see GVW. Direct
drive might need a bigger motor over 5 speed tranny to
get accel times decent. 150 kg for controller,
battery, etc doesn't sound like enough kWhrs to
overheat the motor. I've seen bigger motors in
smaller cars and smaller motors in bigger cars.
Jeff
--- Jeremy Rutman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Hi
> I am at the point of machining an adaptor plate for
> my ac42
> [solectria] thats intended to inhabit a suzuki alto.
> (Electro automotive dont have a plate and I wont be
> shipping a
> transmission transatlantic).
> My question - have I gone and bought a motor way too
> big for the job?
> The ac42 is 60kg, 100 horsepower max and 28horses
> continuous.
> My car-mechanic friend took one look at it and
> started to giggle.
> The thing will barely fit in the engine compartment,
> I may actually
> have to slice out some
> bit to get it to fit. Weight is about the same,
> until I add ~150kg
> of battery, controller, etc.
> He [my mech. friend] recommended using a forklift
> motor, anyone have
> relevant advice?
>
>
>
> Jeremy Rutman
> Technion Physics Dep't
> Haifa 32000
> Israel
> 972 4 8293669
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's
Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.
http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>Have you made a website with the circuit design so others can learn from
>it? or even use it
No. That's why I went to (and paid to go to) a university for
five or six years, and why I have (and paid for) at least fifty
or maybe a hundred books on electrical and electronic design.
Good electronics design takes more than a cookie-cutter approach.
In most fields, you can get away with bad electronic design.
When the powers get high (or when frequencies get high - the
same thing happens there), you really need a fundamental
understanding that goes deeper than a 'cookie cutter' design
possibly can.
-Dale
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Zeke,
This was a shunt motor, wasn't it? If so, the field
would have been wound for 96 volts. Probably just a
few amps (or less) at 96 volts. You need to take the
field resistance.
Jeff
--- Zeke Yewdall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Just wondering if I can measure field current with
> the 20A range on my
> DMM, or if I need a bigger ammeter. It's just
> sitting on the table
> right now, and I don't have any of the final
> instrumentation yet, just
> playing around testing it.
>
> It's a 96 volt 20HP (cont) GE Sepex motor. Big
> 300lb beast of a motor.
>
> Z
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.
http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of David Roden (Akron OH USA)
> Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 3:47 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: "Message truncated" problem
>
> On 21 Jul 2007, John Wayland wrote:
>
>> What change in the EVDL happened a few months ago to make
>> me start seeing maybe 20% of the emails from the EVDL turned into
> this
>> gibberish 'truncated' message crap?
>
> Nothing changed in the EVDL. What happened is that several mail
> services
> released new versions which defaulted to html mail, and made it either
> difficult or impossible to switch back to plain text mail.
>
> MSN cannot be set to plain text, nor can MS Exchange's web interface.
> AOL users have to specifically act to force plain text, message by
> message.
> The major webmail providers, Yahoo and Gmail, both can be changed to
> plain
> text, but default to html.
>
> BTW, the number of html messages isn't even close to 20%. Most people
> are very conscientious about expending the necessary effort to send
> plain
> text. However, we do have a handful who (1) forget; (2) can't, or (3)
> don't
> choose to do this. I can ask them to, but that's about as far as it
> goes.
>
> If you're now using Outlook, which always shows html when it's available
> (you
> have no choice), I suggest that you download Pegasus mail from pmail.com
>
> and install it. Pegasus has an option (in tools - options - incoming
> mail
I am using Outlook 2003 SP2 to read the EVDL.
I used to have the problem with it showing just the truncation message.
Something happened around the time frame that John says and now my version of
Outlook no longer shows the truncation message. I assure you, it was not an
action taken by me to change anything.
I don't know what happened, but I'm not complaining. It does sadden me to think
though that John might not be posting as much as he could. ;-)
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ted,
It was a while back, I used adhesive labels. Got a
lot of useful info. Pretty cheap. Put them all over
the place. Mostly on batteries. IIRC from
McMaster-Carr.
Jeff
--- Ted Sanders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Has anyone used temperature indicating crayons,
> labels, liquids on battery connections?
>
> What is the best choice for a 120 volt DC EV?
> Nonreversible or Reversible?
> Crayons, Labels, or Liquid?
> What temperature value should be used? 175, 200,
> ???
>
> Are these worth the cost?
>
> Thanks for any input!!
> Beano -- 1981 Ford Escort EV Ted Sanders
>
_________________________________________________________________
> PC Magazines 2007 editors choice for best web
> mailaward-winning Windows Live Hotmail.
>
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HMWL_mini_pcmag_0707
____________________________________________________________________________________
Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware
protection.
http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/norton/index.php
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Dan,
I'am at the time driving with a Warp 9 that has a 192 volt rating at 199
amps continuous, in my 6860 lb EV with a 19.595:1 1st gear overall ratio and
a 13.5:1 2nd gear ratio and final gear ratio of 5.57:1, a Zilla controller
and 180 volt 260 AH battery pack.
I always start out in 1st gear in acceleration. During normal acceleration,
the motor ampere goes to about 200 amps while the battery amperes is at 50
amps. If I press the accelerator to the floor, the motor ampere will peak
at 300 amps at 6000 rpm which is 25 mph which will do this in less than 10
seconds.
The Zilla has the rpm limited to 6000 rpm, so even if I hdld the
acceleration at 6000 rpm, the motor ampere starts to drop to about 150 amps
and when I let back a bit on the accelerator, I can get it to drop to about
100 amps, battery ampere is about 30 amps.
When I shift to 2nd gear at 25 mph, the motor amps may go to 500 amps and
battery amps go to 125 amps. At 6000 rpm which is 45 mphs in 2nd gear, the
motor ampere starts to drop back to about 150 amps.
Shifting into 3rd at 6000 rpm at 45 mph, the ampere goes to about 600 amps
and starts to drop back at 50 mph at 4000 rpm to 250 motor amperes and 180
battery amperes.
Now with a GE 11 high torque motor, that has double the torque at a given
rpm of a Warp 9, the the motor ampere at 70 mph is 180 amperes as well as
the battery amps.
Parking or backing up with a GE 11, the battery ampere reads only 3 to 5
amps!!!
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Frederiksen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 7:00 AM
Subject: amps during normal driving
> anyone have some data on a normal sedan conversion with for instance an
> ADC 8" motor.
> where the amps are at during casual acceleration. (following traffic)
> what gearing is used (if you start in second or first. if you gear it
> high and rely on high torque)
>
> weight of the car too
>
> thanks
> Dan
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dale, Lee,
I'll side with Lee on this one. If you ever get the
chance, put a scope across the field on a series motor
under load while being chopped.
Jeff
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> From: Dale Ulan
> > PWM controllers limit average motor volts, but the
> peak voltage seen
> > at the motor is still pretty much pack voltage.
> It's averaged out in
> > the inductance of the field and armature, but the
> brushes still see
> > the peak voltages.
>
> Not quite. The field of a series motor has most of
> the inductance, so most of the AC voltage drop is
> across it. Let's say your pack is 120vdc, and your
> PWM controller is switching 0 120v 0 120v at a 50%
> duty cycle. The average armature voltage is 50% of
> 120v = 60v. But the instantaneous armature voltage
> will be something like 50v 70v 50v 70v (20 volts
> peak-to-peak), and the instantaneous field voltage
> will be -50v +50v -50v +50v (100 volts
> peak-to-peak).
>
> If there is no series field (PM motor), then of
> course the armature and brushes see the full 0 120v
> 0 120v voltage.
>
> --
> "Excellence does not require perfection." -- Henry
> James
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> leeahart-at-earthlink.net
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo!
FareChase.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Zeke,
I forgot to mention in my earlier post that maximum
current in the field was 18-20 amps, but this was
controlled via PWM of the control. In other words, if
you have a nameplate voltage of 96 Volts you wouldn't
directly connect 96V to the field. The control will
regulate the PWM duty cycle to the field to regulate
less than 20Amps. On the Dodge TEVan, system voltage
was 180V nominal, 205Vdc after a full charge.
Looking at the software for the TEVan, Maximum field
PWM duty cycle is Hex #$60 (96 Decimal). Since the
PWM is 8 bit we have (96/255)*205Volts = 77 volts is
the maximum the field would ever see. I suspect on
the 96V sepex motor you would not see more than 36
Volts applied to the field.
Rod
--- Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hey Zeke,
>
> This was a shunt motor, wasn't it? If so, the field
> would have been wound for 96 volts. Probably just a
> few amps (or less) at 96 volts. You need to take
> the
> field resistance.
>
> Jeff
>
>
> --- Zeke Yewdall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Just wondering if I can measure field current with
> > the 20A range on my
> > DMM, or if I need a bigger ammeter. It's just
> > sitting on the table
> > right now, and I don't have any of the final
> > instrumentation yet, just
> > playing around testing it.
> >
> > It's a 96 volt 20HP (cont) GE Sepex motor. Big
> > 300lb beast of a motor.
> >
> > Z
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you
> sell.
> http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Do you think they assemble curtis controllers in bunny suits in a clean
room somewhere at an NSA facility or do you think unskilled labor puts
them together, cookie cutter style.
And I'm not sure how you concluded that because you have an education
you don't help others. I have a degree and I help others for free every day.
I simply don't believe that controller assembly is a magical artisan
task that must be handed down in years of training in a japanese dojo.
And if it was so difficult what's the harm in sharing the design with
such a warning...
Dan
Dale Ulan write:
Have you made a website with the circuit design so others can learn from
it? or even use it
No. That's why I went to (and paid to go to) a university for
five or six years, and why I have (and paid for) at least fifty
or maybe a hundred books on electrical and electronic design.
Good electronics design takes more than a cookie-cutter approach.
In most fields, you can get away with bad electronic design.
When the powers get high (or when frequencies get high - the
same thing happens there), you really need a fundamental
understanding that goes deeper than a 'cookie cutter' design
possibly can.
-Dale
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
hi and thank you. very detailed account.
but 6860 lbs! that's a heavy vehicle :)
do you have a motor volt reading on for instance the 6000rpm, 45mph, 2nd
gear, 150amp position?
for your warp 9 hugely heavy vehicle : )
Dan
Roland Wiench wrote:
Hello Dan,
I'am at the time driving with a Warp 9 that has a 192 volt rating at 199
amps continuous, in my 6860 lb EV with a 19.595:1 1st gear overall ratio and
a 13.5:1 2nd gear ratio and final gear ratio of 5.57:1, a Zilla controller
and 180 volt 260 AH battery pack.
I always start out in 1st gear in acceleration. During normal acceleration,
the motor ampere goes to about 200 amps while the battery amperes is at 50
amps. If I press the accelerator to the floor, the motor ampere will peak
at 300 amps at 6000 rpm which is 25 mph which will do this in less than 10
seconds.
The Zilla has the rpm limited to 6000 rpm, so even if I hdld the
acceleration at 6000 rpm, the motor ampere starts to drop to about 150 amps
and when I let back a bit on the accelerator, I can get it to drop to about
100 amps, battery ampere is about 30 amps.
When I shift to 2nd gear at 25 mph, the motor amps may go to 500 amps and
battery amps go to 125 amps. At 6000 rpm which is 45 mphs in 2nd gear, the
motor ampere starts to drop back to about 150 amps.
Shifting into 3rd at 6000 rpm at 45 mph, the ampere goes to about 600 amps
and starts to drop back at 50 mph at 4000 rpm to 250 motor amperes and 180
battery amperes.
Now with a GE 11 high torque motor, that has double the torque at a given
rpm of a Warp 9, the the motor ampere at 70 mph is 180 amperes as well as
the battery amps.
Parking or backing up with a GE 11, the battery ampere reads only 3 to 5
amps!!!
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Frederiksen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 7:00 AM
Subject: amps during normal driving
anyone have some data on a normal sedan conversion with for instance an
ADC 8" motor.
where the amps are at during casual acceleration. (following traffic)
what gearing is used (if you start in second or first. if you gear it
high and rely on high torque)
weight of the car too
thanks
Dan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
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* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
* This post contains a forbidden message format *
* (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
* Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT *
* If your postings display this message your mail program *
* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting *
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've been there. Lucky for me, fiberglass bounces and just cracks the
paint after scaring the hell out of you.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2007 1:00 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re:1st street ev smile/frown
The S10 project I started 18 months ago ran under its own power this
morning
a couple of miles.Its a ROCKET!! BUT I did not put the hood pins in the
hood
so I now have a smashed hood,cowling and windshield.Back to the paint
shop on
monday.The air locker rear end really does work keeps the truck strait
on a
hard take off.The reverse circuit allows about 3mph even on a good
grade.I never
saw over 400 motor amps on the hard takeoffs that I did.To refresh all
this
s10 has a full 7.50 nhra cage,a 13in motor,a air locker 9 inch ford rear
with 40
spline axels.Its all still steel and real glass windows including the
rear
window with the cage coming through it.Beard race seats,tach,spedo,volt
and
ampmeter and aux.voltmeter.The amp and volt meters read battery and
motor
amps/volts.It has a zilla 2khv,rudman 20 charger,air front
suspension,coil over ladder
bar rear suspension,32 26ah hawker genisis,dc to dc stepup,ect.
Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>room somewhere at an NSA facility or do you think unskilled labor puts
>them together, cookie cutter style.
Big difference between design and assembly. Obviously assembly is
assembly-line style, or 'cookie cutter'. But high-power controller
*design* is not something like 'take this 10 watt controller
and scale it up to 100 kW'. Once the design has been done then
it goes to assembly. At this step, if there are component selection
requirements, that goes to assembly, too. That's some of the
magic of making a big controller work.
>And I'm not sure how you concluded that because you have an education
>you don't help others. I have a degree and I help others for free every
day.
If someone has done their homework well, and obviously has a
reasonable handle on things, then sure. If someone asks a
question like 'I'm working on a controller and I am not quite
sure if I should be using a discrete or integrated MOSFET driver',
or 'Should I look at the ZTX951 transistor for my MOSFET driver,
I'm driving 12 IRFP90N20 FET's in parallel - or will it blow
up?'.... or maybe something like 'I'm not too sure about
matching the recovery time of the diode to the switching
time of the MOSFET', it's obvious that they have done their
homework. Then it's easy to share and I (and others here)
will do that.
If you have not done your homework and just say 'I think a Zilla
should be cheaper, can you help me design one', just from experience,
most people who have done this kind of work really know that that
project is likely (but not always) doomed. But often any of the
knowledgable people here basically tell you to 'do your homework'
first.
>And if it was so difficult what's the harm in sharing the design with
>such a warning...
Many people that design them are trying to make a living at it. You
don't go to GM and ask for the blueprints to a Cobalt just because
you want one and don't want to pay for it... they won't
give them to you. A lot of people who know about design will buy
a controller anyways because they know the amount of effort that
goes into building one. It's cheaper and you get to drive instead
of blow stuff up.
It's not voodoo or magic. It's not even required to be 'passed on'.
It's relatively advanced electrical engineering. Do your homework.
-Dale
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ted
Excuse me, let me get into the proper text mode here.
I've used most of these methods at one time or another. In the non
reversable methods the crayons and the small stick on buttons work
pretty well. Their main advantage being that they are very small. The
reversable liquid crystal are the best but the ones I used max out at
about 120C and they have a larger physical size (.5 wide - 1.75 long -
and .010 thick) which makes them difficult to use on a battery term.
Omega sells all of this stuff and more. http://www.omega.com/
http://www.omega.com/pptst/RLC-50.html
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 9:11 am
Subject: Re: Temperature indicators
Hi Ted,
It was a while back, I used adhesive labels. Got a
lot of useful info. Pretty cheap. Put them all over
the place. Mostly on batteries. IIRC from
McMaster-Carr.
Jeff
--- Ted Sanders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Has anyone used temperature indicating crayons,
labels, liquids on battery connections?
What is the best choice for a 120 volt DC EV?
Nonreversible or Reversible?
Crayons, Labels, or Liquid?
What temperature value should be used? 175, 200,
???
Are these worth the cost?
Thanks for any input!!
Beano -- 1981 Ford Escort EV Ted Sanders
_________________________________________________________________
PC Magazine’s 2007 editors’ choice for best web
mail—award-winning Windows Live Hotmail.
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HMWL_mini_pcmag_0707
_________________________________________________________________________
___________
Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of
spyware
protection.
http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/norton/index.php
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
=0
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roland -
Does the Zilla protect against (series wound) overspeeding if the motor is
freewheeling?
I can't imagine spinning a series wound motor unloaded (I don't have the
money to burn, to buy a new one) - but it would be nice to know that the
controller was capable of it, "just in case" -
Your vehicle is a stick-shift (as is mine, one day, in the
bright-and-glorius future when its done....).
Have you ever 'missed a gear' - thought it was in gear when it wasn't -
and hit the juice? Would a Zilla protect the motor in such a scenario?
My transmission has an 'out of gear' voltage reading that is weird. I'm
going to try to use it to keep the controller from providing current to
the motor in the event that the transmission is in neutral.
I'll figure out how to use it...(I hope).
Additionally, when the vehicle's clutch is depressed, I'm going to have a
switch short the controllers' PB-6 (0-5000 ohm) control point (so a
depressed clutch will make the controller 'think' that the pedal is in the
fully 'up' position).
Additional suggestions? (besides never depressing the clutch in the first
place.....)
Thanks -
Ed Cooley
Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
07/23/2007 11:39
Please respond to
ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To
ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
cc
Subject
Re: amps during normal driving
hi and thank you. very detailed account.
but 6860 lbs! that's a heavy vehicle :)
do you have a motor volt reading on for instance the 6000rpm, 45mph, 2nd
gear, 150amp position?
for your warp 9 hugely heavy vehicle : )
Dan
Roland Wiench wrote:
> Hello Dan,
>
> I'am at the time driving with a Warp 9 that has a 192 volt rating at 199
> amps continuous, in my 6860 lb EV with a 19.595:1 1st gear overall ratio
and
> a 13.5:1 2nd gear ratio and final gear ratio of 5.57:1, a Zilla
controller
> and 180 volt 260 AH battery pack.
>
> I always start out in 1st gear in acceleration. During normal
acceleration,
> the motor ampere goes to about 200 amps while the battery amperes is at
50
> amps. If I press the accelerator to the floor, the motor ampere will
peak
> at 300 amps at 6000 rpm which is 25 mph which will do this in less than
10
> seconds.
>
> The Zilla has the rpm limited to 6000 rpm, so even if I hdld the
> acceleration at 6000 rpm, the motor ampere starts to drop to about 150
amps
> and when I let back a bit on the accelerator, I can get it to drop to
about
> 100 amps, battery ampere is about 30 amps.
>
> When I shift to 2nd gear at 25 mph, the motor amps may go to 500 amps
and
> battery amps go to 125 amps. At 6000 rpm which is 45 mphs in 2nd gear,
the
> motor ampere starts to drop back to about 150 amps.
>
> Shifting into 3rd at 6000 rpm at 45 mph, the ampere goes to about 600
amps
> and starts to drop back at 50 mph at 4000 rpm to 250 motor amperes and
180
> battery amperes.
>
> Now with a GE 11 high torque motor, that has double the torque at a
given
> rpm of a Warp 9, the the motor ampere at 70 mph is 180 amperes as well
as
> the battery amps.
>
> Parking or backing up with a GE 11, the battery ampere reads only 3 to 5
> amps!!!
>
> Roland
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dan Frederiksen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 7:00 AM
> Subject: amps during normal driving
>
>
>
>> anyone have some data on a normal sedan conversion with for instance an
>> ADC 8" motor.
>> where the amps are at during casual acceleration. (following traffic)
>> what gearing is used (if you start in second or first. if you gear it
>> high and rely on high torque)
>>
>> weight of the car too
>>
>> thanks
>> Dan
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Folks...
Please don't continue to feed the troll.
Generally, if they are ignored long enough they will just fade away.
I tend to agree with the moderator that banning a troll is pointless because
they will just get back on the list with another name/email address.
If we each just filter/ignore the posts, and give it a little time,
hopefully the troll will get bored and seek attention elsewhere.
Roy
_________________________________________________________________
http://liveearth.msn.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark -
you could try something like this ( to determine if it is a HV noise
problem)
Disconnect all cables from the motor, and apply 12V ( a convenient car
starting battery) directly to the motor with jumper cables. The motor won't
overspeed at 12V, but it should run the motor ( and the wheels) fast enough
to check the speedometer reading vs wheel speed. If it's too slow, you
could try 24V ( two starter batteries in series) and I believe that would
still be safe, especially if the car is in gear.
If the speedometer works right then, you know it's a HV noise problem.
Phil
From: Mark Dutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Speed Indication Issue - Toyota Yaris Conversion
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 06:44:19 -0700
The speed sensor is on the FWD transmission, it has three wires on it but
they were not twisted as best I could tell, I wonder if the HV system is
causing interference, if so would this cause it to be slow or just
erratic. There is no ABS,
M
On Jul 23, 2007, at 6:17 AM, Mark Ward wrote:
Make sure it is not something silly like I did, assuming that everything
ran off the front wheels. On my saab the speedo runs off the right rear
wheel ABS sensor. I could have spun it up all day and it wouldn't have
read anything. If the onboard computers are still intact it may be
looking for signals from all 4 wheels before it registers correctly. Of
course that assumes you have ABS, wheel sensors, etc. I am sure glad I
didn't cut out any of my computers!
Mark Ward
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
----- Original Message ----- From: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 3:36 AM
Subject: Re: Speed Indication Issue - Toyota Yaris Conversion
On 7/23/07, Mark Dutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
We are using the factory speed sensor system as originally
installed. The first operational test shows the factory speedometer
reading as very low, below what should be the actual speed. We ran
the motor with the car on jack stands and watched the rotation of the
tires against the speedometer indication. The speedometer seems very
low, off by at least 50% if not more
Are both the tyres rotating at the same speed when you do this?
Usually one turns and the other doesn't, and the spinning wheel will
turn twice as fast as it would normally, for that road speed.
_________________________________________________________________
http://liveearth.msn.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for all the suggestions. Also some responses and more questions:
Just a question, how is driving the EV in snow and ice?
Have not driven the EV in snow, for one thing I'm in the virtually
snowless NC piedmont area. If it did snow, I think the EV would do
well since it's heavy BUT it currently has no heat so I'm taking
another vehicle out in case I get stuck.
Try putting a stronger spring on the throttle or throttle pot. This will
give you a better feel of how much throttle to apply.
I've had problems before with my pot-box, which is probably 10 years
old. I've meant to look at it closely but now I have more incentive.
My Auburn Kodiak controller includes a reverse power setting. It
wires up to the backup lights and reduces the power to one fourth of
normal. I believe the Zilla has something similar.
I have a Kodiak too. Any details on this feature? I would be
interested in *any* Kodiak documentation if it's out there...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
since you now agree that assembly is easy enough, could you share your
working charger design?
others might find it interesting or even build it and use it. doesn't
matter if it's not a polished design. might enlighten people anyway
Dan
Dale Ulan wrote:
Big difference between design and assembly. Obviously assembly is
assembly-line style, or 'cookie cutter'.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Rod,
Back on June 6, Zeke said:
> > FYI, the reason I went through the trouble to find
a
> > used shunt motor
> > was that I need regenerative brakes.
>Jeff said:
> Now you say shunt motor whereas before you said
sepex.
> Sepex motors generally have lower voltage field
> windings than shunt motors which infer the field
> voltage will be equal to the nameplate voltage.
With
> a shunt motor, it will be difficult to emulate
series
> motor performance, namely starting torque.
A field resistance would tell us a lot.
Jeff
--- Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Zeke,
> I forgot to mention in my earlier post that maximum
> current in the field was 18-20 amps, but this was
> controlled via PWM of the control. In other words,
> if
> you have a nameplate voltage of 96 Volts you
> wouldn't
> directly connect 96V to the field. The control will
> regulate the PWM duty cycle to the field to regulate
> less than 20Amps. On the Dodge TEVan, system
> voltage
> was 180V nominal, 205Vdc after a full charge.
> Looking at the software for the TEVan, Maximum field
> PWM duty cycle is Hex #$60 (96 Decimal). Since the
> PWM is 8 bit we have (96/255)*205Volts = 77 volts is
> the maximum the field would ever see. I suspect on
> the 96V sepex motor you would not see more than 36
> Volts applied to the field.
> Rod
> --- Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> > Hey Zeke,
> >
> > This was a shunt motor, wasn't it? If so, the
> field
> > would have been wound for 96 volts. Probably just
> a
> > few amps (or less) at 96 volts. You need to take
> > the
> > field resistance.
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> >
> > --- Zeke Yewdall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > Just wondering if I can measure field current
> with
> > > the 20A range on my
> > > DMM, or if I need a bigger ammeter. It's just
> > > sitting on the table
> > > right now, and I don't have any of the final
> > > instrumentation yet, just
> > > playing around testing it.
> > >
> > > It's a 96 volt 20HP (cont) GE Sepex motor. Big
> > > 300lb beast of a motor.
> > >
> > > Z
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> > Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you
> > sell.
> > http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/
> >
> >
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search
that gives answers, not web links.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
DCDC600/192/14 and MES400-1000 are within this voltage range.
http://www.metricmind.com/dcdc.htm
Disclaimer: I sell them.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
billb wrote:
Hi Guys ,
I am looking for a dc to dc in a hard to find input range, about 170 to
250 vdc.to run on a 216 volt nominal system. I have nice dc to dc
converters for 120 vdc input and more for 300 vdc input but need the
range in between with a 14 vdc output at 50 or more amps. Any
suggestions? Thanks, Bill Brinsmead
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well.... I'll let you know the field resistance, and we can figure out
whether this is really a SepEx motor, or a shunt motor........ in EE
school, they don't really distinguish between them (we covered DC
motors for about one week).
And yes, it does have some sort of model number on it too, which I'll get.
Zeke
On 7/23/07, Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hey Rod,
Back on June 6, Zeke said:
> > FYI, the reason I went through the trouble to find
a
> > used shunt motor
> > was that I need regenerative brakes.
>Jeff said:
> Now you say shunt motor whereas before you said
sepex.
> Sepex motors generally have lower voltage field
> windings than shunt motors which infer the field
> voltage will be equal to the nameplate voltage.
With
> a shunt motor, it will be difficult to emulate
series
> motor performance, namely starting torque.
A field resistance would tell us a lot.
Jeff
--- Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Zeke,
> I forgot to mention in my earlier post that maximum
> current in the field was 18-20 amps, but this was
> controlled via PWM of the control. In other words,
> if
> you have a nameplate voltage of 96 Volts you
> wouldn't
> directly connect 96V to the field. The control will
> regulate the PWM duty cycle to the field to regulate
> less than 20Amps. On the Dodge TEVan, system
> voltage
> was 180V nominal, 205Vdc after a full charge.
> Looking at the software for the TEVan, Maximum field
> PWM duty cycle is Hex #$60 (96 Decimal). Since the
> PWM is 8 bit we have (96/255)*205Volts = 77 volts is
> the maximum the field would ever see. I suspect on
> the 96V sepex motor you would not see more than 36
> Volts applied to the field.
> Rod
> --- Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> > Hey Zeke,
> >
> > This was a shunt motor, wasn't it? If so, the
> field
> > would have been wound for 96 volts. Probably just
> a
> > few amps (or less) at 96 volts. You need to take
> > the
> > field resistance.
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> >
> > --- Zeke Yewdall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > Just wondering if I can measure field current
> with
> > > the 20A range on my
> > > DMM, or if I need a bigger ammeter. It's just
> > > sitting on the table
> > > right now, and I don't have any of the final
> > > instrumentation yet, just
> > > playing around testing it.
> > >
> > > It's a 96 volt 20HP (cont) GE Sepex motor. Big
> > > 300lb beast of a motor.
> > >
> > > Z
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> > Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you
> > sell.
> > http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/
> >
> >
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search
that gives answers, not web links.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
--- End Message ---
