Owen, We could do a Wedtech in September on it. Do you have a cc you could circulate to get us all on the same page?
N -----Original Message----- From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Owen Densmore Sent: Monday, June 06, 2011 10:17 AM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Quote of the week Nick: Next you are in town, lets read the original Shannon paper together. Alas, it is a bit long, but I'm told its a Good Thing To Do. -- Owen On Jun 6, 2011, at 7:44 AM, Nicholas Thompson wrote: > Grant, > > This seems backwards to me, but I got properly thrashed for my last few postings so I am putting my hat over the wall very carefully here. > > I thought..i thought .. the information in a message was the number of bits by which the arrival of the message decreased the uncertainty of the receiver. So, let's say you are sitting awaiting the result of a coin toss, and I am on the other end of the line flipping the coin. Before I say "heads" you have 1 bit of uncertainty; afterwards, you have none. > > The reason I am particularly nervous about saying this is that it, of course, holds out the possibility of negative information. Some forms of communication, appeasement gestures in animals, for instance, have the effect of increasing the range of behaviors likely to occur in the receiver. This would seem to correspond to a negative value for the information calculation. > > Nick > From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On > Behalf Of Grant Holland > Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2011 11:07 PM > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group; Steve Smith > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Quote of the week > > Interesting note on "information" and "uncertainty"... > > Information is Uncertainty. The two words are synonyms. > > Shannon called it "uncertainty", contemporary Information theory calls it "information". > > It is often thought that the more information there is, the less uncertainty. The opposite is the case. > > In Information Theory (aka the mathematical theory of communications) , the degree of information I(E) - or uncertainty U(E) - of an event is measurable as an inverse function of its probability, as follows: > > U(E) = I(E) = log( 1/Pr(E) ) = log(1) - log( Pr(E) ) = -log( Pr(E) ). > > Considering I(E) as a random variable, Shannon's entropy is, in fact, the first moment (or expectation) of I(E). Shannon entropy = exp( I(E) ). > > Grant > > On 6/5/2011 2:20 PM, Steve Smith wrote: > > > "Philosophy is to physics as pornography is to sex. It's cheaper, it's easier and some people seem to prefer it." > > Modern Physics is contained in Realism which is contained in Metaphysics which I contained in all of Philosophy. > > I'd be tempted to counter: > "Physics is to Philosophy as the Missionary Position is to the Kama Sutra" > > Physics also appeals to Phenomenology and Logic (the branch of Philosophy were Mathematics is rooted) and what we can know scientifically is constrained by Epistemology (the nature of knowledge) and phenomenology (the nature of conscious experience). > > It might be fair to say that many (including many of us here) who hold Physics up in some exalted position simply dismiss or choose to ignore all the messy questions considered by *the rest of* philosophy. Even if we think we have clear/simple answers to the questions, I do not accept that the questions are not worthy of the asking. > > The underlying point of the referenced podcast is, in fact, that Physics, or Science in general might be rather myopic and limited by it's own viewpoint by definition. > > "The more we know, the less we understand." > > Philosophy is about understanding, physics is about knowledge first and understanding only insomuch as it is a part of natural philosophy. > > Or at least this is how my understanding is structured around these matters. > > - Steve > > On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 1:15 PM, Robert Holmes <rob...@holmesacosta.com> wrote: > >From the BBC's science podcast "The Infinite Monkey Cage": > > "Philosophy is to physics as pornography is to sex. It's cheaper, it's easier and some people seem to prefer it." > > Not to be pedantic, but I suspect that s/he has conflated "philosophy" with "new age", as much of science owes itself to philosophy. > > marcos > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe > at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at > http://www.friam.org > > > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe > at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at > http://www.friam.org > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe > at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at > http://www.friam.org ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
