I certainly would be interested. I have issues with Claude's work and what I think is its misconstrued application and definition, at least beyond physics.
-tj On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 10:35 PM, Nicholas Thompson < nickthomp...@earthlink.net> wrote: > Owen, > > We could do a Wedtech in September on it. Do you have a cc you could > circulate to get us all on the same page? > > N > > -----Original Message----- > From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On > Behalf > Of Owen Densmore > Sent: Monday, June 06, 2011 10:17 AM > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Quote of the week > > Nick: Next you are in town, lets read the original Shannon paper together. > Alas, it is a bit long, but I'm told its a Good Thing To Do. > > -- Owen > > On Jun 6, 2011, at 7:44 AM, Nicholas Thompson wrote: > > > Grant, > > > > This seems backwards to me, but I got properly thrashed for my last few > postings so I am putting my hat over the wall very carefully here. > > > > I thought..i thought .. the information in a message was the number of > bits by which the arrival of the message decreased the uncertainty of the > receiver. So, let's say you are sitting awaiting the result of a coin > toss, > and I am on the other end of the line flipping the coin. Before I say > "heads" you have 1 bit of uncertainty; afterwards, you have none. > > > > The reason I am particularly nervous about saying this is that it, of > course, holds out the possibility of negative information. Some forms of > communication, appeasement gestures in animals, for instance, have the > effect of increasing the range of behaviors likely to occur in the > receiver. > This would seem to correspond to a negative value for the information > calculation. > > > > Nick > > From: friam-boun...@redfish.com [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On > > Behalf Of Grant Holland > > Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2011 11:07 PM > > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group; Steve Smith > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Quote of the week > > > > Interesting note on "information" and "uncertainty"... > > > > Information is Uncertainty. The two words are synonyms. > > > > Shannon called it "uncertainty", contemporary Information theory calls it > "information". > > > > It is often thought that the more information there is, the less > uncertainty. The opposite is the case. > > > > In Information Theory (aka the mathematical theory of communications) , > the degree of information I(E) - or uncertainty U(E) - of an event is > measurable as an inverse function of its probability, as follows: > > > > U(E) = I(E) = log( 1/Pr(E) ) = log(1) - log( Pr(E) ) = -log( Pr(E) ). > > > > Considering I(E) as a random variable, Shannon's entropy is, in fact, the > first moment (or expectation) of I(E). Shannon entropy = exp( I(E) ). > > > > Grant > > > > On 6/5/2011 2:20 PM, Steve Smith wrote: > > > > > > "Philosophy is to physics as pornography is to sex. It's cheaper, it's > easier and some people seem to prefer it." > > > > Modern Physics is contained in Realism which is contained in Metaphysics > which I contained in all of Philosophy. > > > > I'd be tempted to counter: > > "Physics is to Philosophy as the Missionary Position is to the Kama > Sutra" > > > > Physics also appeals to Phenomenology and Logic (the branch of Philosophy > were Mathematics is rooted) and what we can know scientifically is > constrained by Epistemology (the nature of knowledge) and phenomenology > (the > nature of conscious experience). > > > > It might be fair to say that many (including many of us here) who hold > Physics up in some exalted position simply dismiss or choose to ignore all > the messy questions considered by *the rest of* philosophy. Even if we > think we have clear/simple answers to the questions, I do not accept that > the questions are not worthy of the asking. > > > > The underlying point of the referenced podcast is, in fact, that Physics, > or Science in general might be rather myopic and limited by it's own > viewpoint by definition. > > > > "The more we know, the less we understand." > > > > Philosophy is about understanding, physics is about knowledge first and > understanding only insomuch as it is a part of natural philosophy. > > > > Or at least this is how my understanding is structured around these > matters. > > > > - Steve > > > > On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 1:15 PM, Robert Holmes <rob...@holmesacosta.com> > wrote: > > >From the BBC's science podcast "The Infinite Monkey Cage": > > > > "Philosophy is to physics as pornography is to sex. It's cheaper, it's > easier and some people seem to prefer it." > > > > Not to be pedantic, but I suspect that s/he has conflated "philosophy" > with "new age", as much of science owes itself to philosophy. > > > > marcos > > > > ============================================================ > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe > > at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at > > http://www.friam.org > > > > > > > > > > ============================================================ > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe > > at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at > > http://www.friam.org > > ============================================================ > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe > > at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at > > http://www.friam.org > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, > unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > > > ============================================================ > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > -- ========================================== J. T. Johnson Institute for Analytic Journalism -- Santa Fe, NM USA www.analyticjournalism.com 505.577.6482(c) 505.473.9646(h) http://www.jtjohnson.com t...@jtjohnson.com ==========================================
============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
