We are not going to be held hostage to 3rd party programmers using triggering out of date and unused game code that isn't part of a published API (i.e part of an exported interface function).
Alfred, we're not asking for hostages. We're just humbly asking for, at a minimum, warnings. Ideally, we'd like discussion about the implications, but a warning is our minimum requirement. Please see the relevant section of my initial email, I quote here:
> Now, we certainly aren't asking you to indefinitely support every > little feature we use, but we absolutely *must* have forewarning > before things change in sensitive areas-- especially when things > are deprecated.
Keep in mind that we're all very grateful for the work you guys do on the SDK. It's been invaluable. It's just that in order for the community to remain healthy we're going to have to work together.
Thanks for your time and assistance, -Mattie
----- Original Message ----- From: "Alfred Reynolds" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 2:29 PM Subject: RE: [hlcoders] To Valve: Developer Forewarning
That is part of the leaf code of the mod, not an exported API. Assuming that CS:S uses the same code that we ship in the SDK is wrong (because they won't match). Injecting network messages and assuming the same implementation in a binary you don't control is not going to work. We have provided a stable, consistent (across all mods) API for plugins to message users. We have already added new functionality to this interface at the request of plugin authors, a quick email discussion with us and I am sure we can find a middle ground. Also note that plugins already use the exported API for HL2MP (and other 3rd party mods I suspect).
We are not going to be held hostage to 3rd party programmers using triggering out of date and unused game code that isn't part of a published API (i.e part of an exported interface function).
- Alfred
----Original Message---- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Anderson Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 11:19 AM To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlcoders] To Valve: Developer Forewarning
A "hack" is a funny thing to call a user message nicely documented in cl_dll/menu.cpp.
~dvander
Alfred Reynolds wrote: > 3rd party plugins have been using a hack to trigger an unused bit of > game code. We provide them with another, maintained, user friendlier > version of menus that work across all mods, they need to start using > that. > > - Alfred > > ----Original Message---- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mattie > Casper Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 9:42 AM To: > hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlcoders] To Valve: > Developer Forewarning > > > > Alfred or other Valve representative, > > > > There are many, many plugin and mod developers displeased at the > > moment because of your recent decision to change CSS menuing > > behavior so drastically. > > > > I'm not precisely sure why the decision was made to suddenly push > > such a big change (now rolled-back temporarily) on everyone in > > the world, but this has wounded our confidence in the support > > Valve provides to their SDK community. Last night, plugin > > developers were inundated with yells for help as plugin menuing > > systems were obliterated in one fell swoop. Those same developers > > spent frantic hours trying to reverse engineer what caused the > > problem, all the while trying to communicate the issues to their > > own users. > > > > As far as I can tell, there was absolutely no forewarning. > > Nothing to indicate to the developer community what could be > > changed to fix the problem. In turn, there was no warning > > developers could provide to their users or even early code > > changes they could make to limit the impact. With some sort of > > notice, it would have been possible to do a great deal to help > > the situation. > > > > It really comes down to the fact that it's Valve's community of > > game players that suffer when this happens. If 30% of the servers > > out there run popular admin mods and those mods suddenly cease to > > function painfully, people get a much worse impression of "steam > > updates". They, as you know, even come whining to you about why > > you broke their favorite 3rd party plugin. > > > > Now, we certainly aren't asking you to indefinitely support every > > little feature we use, but we absolutely *must* have forewarning > > before things changed in sensitive areas-- especially when things > > are deprecated. Without a heads-up from Valve, the developer > > community relationship is simply going to crumble into > > name-calling and constant bickering. None of us want to go that > > route, but we're going to need better support from Valve in order > > to avoid it. > > > > So, I'm asking nicely for the Valve teams to provide us additional > > forewarning before making large changes. Deprecating *anything* > > should be announced well beforehand so that plugin and mod > > developers can act accordingly. The unannounced update we saw > > last night simply cannot continue if you care anything about the > > developer community. > > Even if you feel something is a "hack", you should at least work > > with us a little more rather than letting us fall onto our own > > swords. > > > > While I appreciate what you guys have done for the developer > > community, I still think there's more needed or we're all going to > > suffer. Please give us warning before you change things like this. > > > > Thanks for your time. > > > > Respectfully yours, > > -Mattie > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >
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