On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 10:27 PM, Rasmus Lerdorf <ras...@lerdorf.com> wrote: > On 02/28/2013 11:34 AM, Anthony Ferrara wrote: >> Zeev, >> >> No syntax changes, so regular majority as far as I can tell. >> >> >> However, it does nuke several existing PECL extensions (some fatally). For >> example, XDebug has no compatibility with ZendOptimizer+ right now (at >> least that I could find, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here). > > It works fine. You just have to load ZO before xdebug. If you load it > the other way around bad things happen. This wrong load order currently > happens if you toss it in your config file path dir and rely on the > alphabetical load order which is another reason to not have this thing > start with a 'z'. > >> And some could argue that shipping with a modification that breaks known >> and widely relied upon (if only for development) extensions would fit into >> this category. > > Since the fix for this is trivial, I think this isn't a valid concern. > > -Rasmus >
Hello php.internals, I've read all the e-mails so far and there are valid points from both parts but it seems there's a critical thing missing. What do PHP users want? I mean, what do sysadmins, programmers and managers want from PHP 5.5? Here's my personal opinion: I work in an enterprise so... I want stability (includes bug fixes) and speed. In this order. Language features are on the third spot, at least this is the case for PHP 5.5. We'll get generators and a function for passwords and something I really don't care about :) Why? Because I won't have a chance to use them soon and by the time I'll use them PHP will get to version 5.8 most likely. So for me the fact that PHP 5.5 will be delayed a couple of months is irrelevant. We upgrade either to use better tools/frameworks or to benefit from security patches when versions are no longer maintained so unless something big appears earlier there's no point to upgrade. Don't get me wrong, those features are great, as much as those in PHP 5.4, yet history tells us that people still didn't made that step to upgrade to 5.4 yet. So if those features are not that 'something big' then what is it? A huge, out of the box, speed bump for production machines. Could this be done with APC? Most likely, that is if a stable APC were to be released same time as PHP 5.5. I really don't want to offend anyone but see what happened with 5.4 and APC. What I'm trying to say is: if O+ can be added to PHP 5.5 and made stable, and I do mean production ready which from my understanding is almost there, then why shouldn't it be done? But I'm just a single user. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong. But so are the other people who replied here so far, they are all only individuals. This is a perfect opportunity for testing out the whole: 'ask your users' thing that me and several other people were talking about. How expensive would it be, both in time and actual costs, to actually make this happen? Either setup a poll on php.net or on a third party service for one-two weeks and ask the users these simple questions (obviously they could be better, POC ahead): What do you expect from PHP 5.5? (multiple choice) - better security - better stability - better speed - more language features - other <type here> - all of the above Do you know what an opcode cache is? - yes - no Would you be ok if PHP 5.5 will not ship in April 2013 but in August 2013 because we want to integrate an opcode cache, a functionality, which once used could increase the speed of your applications by up to 50% or more*? - yes - no * NOTE: the speed increase is not guaranteed to be the same for all applications nor it is guaranteed. Would the fact that PHP 5.5 doesn't ship as originally planed, if the mentioned integration happens, affect your view about PHP? - yes - no What position do you have in your company? - developer - sysadmin - devops - manager - other: <type here> Are you in a position to influence the upgrade from your current PHP version to PHP 5.5? - yes - no Afaik every major framework has someone here, on the ML, then we have Zend and we have some other libraries and so on here as well. Imagine if all those people would link from their websites to the said poll. I think it would be a small effort from them but the responses could at least point out to what users actually want and help you in sorting this out. If I offended anyone, which I'm almost sure I did, it was not my intention, please forgive me. Thank you all for your hard work on PHP. Best regards. ---- Florin Patan https://github.com/dlsniper -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
