I’ll let Paulo comment since he wrote the Arabic shaper and knows what’s
involved…
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 2:03 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [iText-questions] ligature implementation for Indian languages /
Devanagari script
Would that be a common dictionary for all the Indian languages that use
Devanagari script or a separate one for each language such as Hindi, Marathi,
Gujarati, etc. I believe you'll need separate one for each but then I could be
wrong. I know these 3 Indian languages well enough to help out.
What's the format of this dictionary? Could you point to the Arabic dictionary?
Thanks for so much interest in this subject. Can we make use of the interest
and momentum to get this done.
Dilip
From: [hidden email]</user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=3431809&i=0&by-user=t>
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 1:48 PM
To: [hidden email]</user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=3431809&i=1&by-user=t>
Subject: Re: ligature implementation for Indian languages / Devanagari script
That's EXACTLY what is needed - the "dictionary" that tells iText that when it
sees a specific combination of codepoints to use a different glyph than normal.
iText has one for Arabic text, but not for Devanagari (and other Indics). If
you can build such a table/dictionary, that would go a LONG WAY to getting
support into iText.
Leonard
-----Original Message-----
From: John Kilbourne [mailto:[hidden
email]</user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=3431768&i=0&by-user=t&by-user=t>]
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 1:15 PM
To: Post all your questions about iText here
Subject: Re: [iText-questions] ligature implementation for Indian languages /
Devanagari script
Thank you for your clarification.
I understand from your last paragraph that iText would need to determine
whether any contextual glyph shaping needs to be performed and then find the
relevant glyphs in the font file. iText would not need to read the glyphs
'live' (as they are being typed in) and change the rendering as subsequent
characters are typed; it just sees a finished sequence of Unicode (often
multi-)byte characters. Is is difficult to have a 'dictionary' of character
combinations within iText that relate the combinations of Unicode characters
('codepoints' I think is the correct term) to the appropriate glyphs (e.g. क +
ष = क्ष)? I would like to help (because I would really like to use iText), or
at least understand this problem better.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leonard Rosenthol" <[hidden
email]</user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=3431768&i=1&by-user=t&by-user=t>>
To: "Post all your questions about iText here" <[hidden
email]</user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=3431768&i=2&by-user=t&by-user=t>>
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2011 3:45:24 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [iText-questions] ligature implementation for Indian languages /
Devanagari script
Roman (also sometimes called Latin) is a class of languages (also known as
Romance) that includes English, French, German, etc. This is codified in the
encoding ISO 8859-1 (also called ISO Latin 1 - <<A
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO/IEC_8859-1>" rel=nofollow target=_top
link="external">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO/IEC_8859-1>)
Devanagari is a script used for Hindi (and other Indic languages - see <<A
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devanagari>" rel=nofollow target=_top
link="external">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devanagari>).
Fonts are simply a way to provide a set of glyphs (visual representations of
"letters" and "symbols"). They may or may not have a correlation to a
specific script or language. In most cases today, fonts include glyphs for
MANY languages & scripts (eg. Unicode fonts).
A font CAN NOT automatically do anything! The software that lays out the
characters/code points MUST determine whether any contextual glyph shaping
needs to be performed and then find the relevant glyphs in the font file. See
<<A
href="http://people.w3.org/rishida/docs/unicode-tutorial/part3#context-sensitive>"
rel=nofollow target=_top
link="external">http://people.w3.org/rishida/docs/unicode-tutorial/part3#context-sensitive>
which is just part of a full presentation on Unicode.
Hope that helps clarify things for you.
-----Original Message-----
From: John Kilbourne [mailto:[hidden
email]</user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=3431768&i=3&by-user=t&by-user=t>]
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 12:34 PM
To: Post all your questions about iText here
Subject: Re: [iText-questions] ligature implementation for Indian languages /
Devanagari script
I wonder if the distinction between font and language and something in between
aren't involved here. English is a language, Roman is not quite a font (I
think), but Times-Roman would be a font. Hindi is a language, devanagari is not
quite a font, and Sansrit2003 (the font I use for devanagari) is a font.
Anyway, here (http://www.wazu.jp/gallery/Fonts_Devanagari.html) is a list of
devanagari fonts showing the ligatures they naturally produce. Sanskrit 2003
(the font) automatically renders devanagari ligatures like
क्ष, त्म, प्र for
क्+ष्, त्+म्, and प् + र्.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leonard Rosenthol" <[hidden
email]</user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=3431768&i=4&by-user=t&by-user=t>>
To: "Post all your questions about iText here" <[hidden
email]</user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=3431768&i=5&by-user=t&by-user=t>>
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2011 2:49:09 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [iText-questions] ligature implementation for Indian languages /
Devanagari script
The information about what two character codes/code points make up a given
ligature isn't encoded into a font. For example, there is nothing that tells
me that when I find 'f' and 'i' next to each other in Roman/English text that I
can turn that into an 'fi' ligature. I have to have that type of logic written
into my layout engine.
Contextual languages such as Arabic and Devanagari make this even more complex
- but same concept...
Leonard
-----Original Message-----
From: John Kilbourne [mailto:[hidden
email]</user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=3431768&i=6&by-user=t&by-user=t>]
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 11:41 AM
To: Post all your questions about iText here
Subject: Re: [iText-questions] ligature implementation for Indian languages /
Devanagari script
How is it that different devanagari fonts render ligatures differently? It
seems that the ligature information is found in the font itself. Is there no
way for iText to utilize the information already contained the particular font
used to render the text?
----- Original Message -----
From: "1T3XT BVBA" <[hidden
email]</user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=3431768&i=7&by-user=t&by-user=t>>
To: [hidden
email]</user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=3431768&i=8&by-user=t&by-user=t>
Sent: Sunday, April 3, 2011 3:01:34 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [iText-questions] ligature implementation for Indian languages /
Devanagari script
[hidden
email]</user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=3431768&i=9&by-user=t&by-user=t>
wrote:
> Does iText have ligature implementation for Indian languages such as Hindi,
> Gujarati, Marathi, etc?
No, none of the iText developers understand any Indic language.
You are always welcome to contribute code that supports ligatures in
Indic languages.
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