I'm working on a self-funded 'hobby' project. I guess we'll have to wait for a
party with funds who badly needs this done.
Dilip
From: Paulo Soares-3 [via iText - General]
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 4:05 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: ligature implementation for Indian languages / Devanagari script
Indic ligatures are a lot more complex, not only with the posiible combinations
but also, and probably more important, in that the ligaturized representation
has no corresponding Unicode code point. This requires a GSUB table to provide
the glyph id for the ligature. iText has no capability to read this table (GPOS
would also be nice to have). The process to implement support for Indic scripts
would be:
- have the rules for Indic ligatures
- decode the GSUB table in the font to get the glyph id of the ligature
- add the ligature, as a glyph id, to the output text
None of this is supported in iText for the moment and would take several weeks
to implement if we knew how (we can learn, no big deal) and if someone was
willing to pay for the development.
Paulo
----- Original Message -----
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 10:55 PM
Subject: Re: [iText-questions] ligature implementation for Indian languages /
Devanagari script
I’ll let Paulo comment since he wrote the Arabic shaper and knows what’s
involved…
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 2:03 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [iText-questions] ligature implementation for Indian languages /
Devanagari script
Would that be a common dictionary for all the Indian languages that use
Devanagari script or a separate one for each language such as Hindi, Marathi,
Gujarati, etc. I believe you'll need separate one for each but then I could be
wrong. I know these 3 Indian languages well enough to help out.
What's the format of this dictionary? Could you point to the Arabic
dictionary?
Thanks for so much interest in this subject. Can we make use of the interest
and momentum to get this done.
Dilip
From: [hidden email]
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 1:48 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: ligature implementation for Indian languages / Devanagari script
That's EXACTLY what is needed - the "dictionary" that tells iText that when
it sees a specific combination of codepoints to use a different glyph than
normal. iText has one for Arabic text, but not for Devanagari (and other
Indics). If you can build such a table/dictionary, that would go a LONG WAY to
getting support into iText.
Leonard
-----Original Message-----
From: John Kilbourne [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 1:15 PM
To: Post all your questions about iText here
Subject: Re: [iText-questions] ligature implementation for Indian languages /
Devanagari script
Thank you for your clarification.
I understand from your last paragraph that iText would need to determine
whether any contextual glyph shaping needs to be performed and then find the
relevant glyphs in the font file. iText would not need to read the glyphs
'live' (as they are being typed in) and change the rendering as subsequent
characters are typed; it just sees a finished sequence of Unicode (often
multi-)byte characters. Is is difficult to have a 'dictionary' of character
combinations within iText that relate the combinations of Unicode characters
('codepoints' I think is the correct term) to the appropriate glyphs (e.g. क +
ष = क्ष)? I would like to help (because I would really like to use iText), or
at least understand this problem better.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leonard Rosenthol" <[hidden email]>
To: "Post all your questions about iText here" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2011 3:45:24 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [iText-questions] ligature implementation for Indian languages /
Devanagari script
Roman (also sometimes called Latin) is a class of languages (also known as
Romance) that includes English, French, German, etc. This is codified in the
encoding ISO 8859-1 (also called ISO Latin 1 - <<A
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO/IEC_8859-1>" rel=nofollow target=_top
link="external">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO/IEC_8859-1>)
Devanagari is a script used for Hindi (and other Indic languages - see <<A
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devanagari>" rel=nofollow target=_top
link="external">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devanagari>).
Fonts are simply a way to provide a set of glyphs (visual representations of
"letters" and "symbols"). They may or may not have a correlation to a
specific script or language. In most cases today, fonts include glyphs for
MANY languages & scripts (eg. Unicode fonts).
A font CAN NOT automatically do anything! The software that lays out the
characters/code points MUST determine whether any contextual glyph shaping
needs to be performed and then find the relevant glyphs in the font file. See
<<A
href="http://people.w3.org/rishida/docs/unicode-tutorial/part3#context-sensitive>"
rel=nofollow target=_top
link="external">http://people.w3.org/rishida/docs/unicode-tutorial/part3#context-sensitive>
which is just part of a full presentation on Unicode.
Hope that helps clarify things for you.
-----Original Message-----
From: John Kilbourne [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 12:34 PM
To: Post all your questions about iText here
Subject: Re: [iText-questions] ligature implementation for Indian languages /
Devanagari script
I wonder if the distinction between font and language and something in
between aren't involved here. English is a language, Roman is not quite a font
(I think), but Times-Roman would be a font. Hindi is a language, devanagari is
not quite a font, and Sansrit2003 (the font I use for devanagari) is a font.
Anyway, here (http://www.wazu.jp/gallery/Fonts_Devanagari.html) is a list of
devanagari fonts showing the ligatures they naturally produce. Sanskrit 2003
(the font) automatically renders devanagari ligatures like
क्ष, त्म, प्र for
क्+ष्, त्+म्, and प् + र्.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leonard Rosenthol" <[hidden email]>
To: "Post all your questions about iText here" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2011 2:49:09 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [iText-questions] ligature implementation for Indian languages /
Devanagari script
The information about what two character codes/code points make up a given
ligature isn't encoded into a font. For example, there is nothing that tells
me that when I find 'f' and 'i' next to each other in Roman/English text that I
can turn that into an 'fi' ligature. I have to have that type of logic written
into my layout engine.
Contextual languages such as Arabic and Devanagari make this even more
complex - but same concept...
Leonard
-----Original Message-----
From: John Kilbourne [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 11:41 AM
To: Post all your questions about iText here
Subject: Re: [iText-questions] ligature implementation for Indian languages /
Devanagari script
How is it that different devanagari fonts render ligatures differently? It
seems that the ligature information is found in the font itself. Is there no
way for iText to utilize the information already contained the particular font
used to render the text?
----- Original Message -----
From: "1T3XT BVBA" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Sunday, April 3, 2011 3:01:34 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [iText-questions] ligature implementation for Indian languages /
Devanagari script
[hidden email] wrote:
> Does iText have ligature implementation for Indian languages such as Hindi,
> Gujarati, Marathi, etc?
No, none of the iText developers understand any Indic language.
You are always welcome to contribute code that supports ligatures in
Indic languages.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Create and publish websites with WebMatrix
Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself;
WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and
publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf
_______________________________________________
iText-questions mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions
iText(R) is a registered trademark of 1T3XT BVBA.
Many questions posted to this list can (and will) be answered with a
reference to the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/
Please check the keywords list before you ask for examples:
http://itextpdf.com/themes/keywords.php
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xperia(TM) PLAY
It's a major breakthrough. An authentic gaming
smartphone on the nation's most reliable network.
And it wants your games.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-sfdev
_______________________________________________
iText-questions mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions
iText(R) is a registered trademark of 1T3XT BVBA.
Many questions posted to this list can (and will) be answered with a
reference to the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/
Please check the keywords list before you ask for examples:
http://itextpdf.com/themes/keywords.php
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xperia(TM) PLAY
It's a major breakthrough. An authentic gaming
smartphone on the nation's most reliable network.
And it wants your games.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-sfdev
_______________________________________________
iText-questions mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions
iText(R) is a registered trademark of 1T3XT BVBA.
Many questions posted to this list can (and will) be answered with a
reference to the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/
Please check the keywords list before you ask for examples:
http://itextpdf.com/themes/keywords.php
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xperia(TM) PLAY
It's a major breakthrough. An authentic gaming
smartphone on the nation's most reliable network.
And it wants your games.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-sfdev
_______________________________________________
iText-questions mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions
iText(R) is a registered trademark of 1T3XT BVBA.
Many questions posted to this list can (and will) be answered with a
reference to the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/
Please check the keywords list before you ask for examples:
http://itextpdf.com/themes/keywords.php
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xperia(TM) PLAY
It's a major breakthrough. An authentic gaming
smartphone on the nation's most reliable network.
And it wants your games.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-sfdev
_______________________________________________
iText-questions mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions
iText(R) is a registered trademark of 1T3XT BVBA.
Many questions posted to this list can (and will) be answered with a
reference to the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/
Please check the keywords list before you ask for examples:
http://itextpdf.com/themes/keywords.php
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xperia(TM) PLAY
It's a major breakthrough. An authentic gaming
smartphone on the nation's most reliable network.
And it wants your games.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-sfdev
_______________________________________________
iText-questions mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions
iText(R) is a registered trademark of 1T3XT BVBA.
Many questions posted to this list can (and will) be answered with a
reference to the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/
Please check the keywords list before you ask for examples:
http://itextpdf.com/themes/keywords.php
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xperia(TM) PLAY
It's a major breakthrough. An authentic gaming
smartphone on the nation's most reliable network.
And it wants your games.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-sfdev
_______________________________________________
iText-questions mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions
iText(R) is a registered trademark of 1T3XT BVBA.
Many questions posted to this list can (and will) be answered with a
reference to the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/
Please check the keywords list before you ask for examples:
http://itextpdf.com/themes/keywords.php
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion
below:
http://itext-general.2136553.n4.nabble.com/ligature-implementation-for-Indian-languages-Devanagari-script-tp3423055p3431768.html
To unsubscribe from ligature implementation for Indian languages / Devanagari
script, click here.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
View this message in context: Re: ligature implementation for Indian
languages / Devanagari script
Sent from the iText - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xperia(TM) PLAY
It's a major breakthrough. An authentic gaming
smartphone on the nation's most reliable network.
And it wants your games.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-sfdev
_______________________________________________
iText-questions mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions
iText(R) is a registered trademark of 1T3XT BVBA.
Many questions posted to this list can (and will) be answered with a reference
to the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/
Please check the keywords list before you ask for examples:
http://itextpdf.com/themes/keywords.php
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://itext-general.2136553.n4.nabble.com/ligature-implementation-for-Indian-languages-Devanagari-script-tp3423055p3432093.html
To unsubscribe from ligature implementation for Indian languages / Devanagari
script, click here.
--
View this message in context:
http://itext-general.2136553.n4.nabble.com/ligature-implementation-for-Indian-languages-Devanagari-script-tp3423055p3433465.html
Sent from the iText - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xperia(TM) PLAY
It's a major breakthrough. An authentic gaming
smartphone on the nation's most reliable network.
And it wants your games.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-sfdev
_______________________________________________
iText-questions mailing list
[email protected]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/itext-questions
iText(R) is a registered trademark of 1T3XT BVBA.
Many questions posted to this list can (and will) be answered with a reference
to the iText book: http://www.itextpdf.com/book/
Please check the keywords list before you ask for examples:
http://itextpdf.com/themes/keywords.php
