Linux-Advocacy Digest #344, Volume #26 Tue, 2 May 00 22:13:08 EDT
Contents:
Reservations about splitting up MS... ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: The Dream World of Linux Zealots ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Is the PC era over? (JTK)
My question has still not been answered.Dance..Dance...Dance... ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Dvorak calls Microsoft on 'innovation' ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: So what is wrong with X? (mlw)
Re: Dvorak calls Microsoft on 'innovation' (Jen)
Re: Dinosaur Eat Blue Penguin? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: MS App. Spin-Off Company Logo Revealed? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: QB 4.5 in Win 2000 ("Bob May")
Re: Are we equal? (abraxas)
Re: Are we equal? (abraxas)
Re: The Dream World of Linux Zealots (Ciaran)
Re: Is the PC era over? (abraxas)
Re: Dvorak calls Microsoft on 'innovation' (petilon)
Re: Sofware paztents and Micro$oft history (CAguy)
Re: Reservations about splitting up MS... (John & Susie)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Reservations about splitting up MS...
Date: 3 May 2000 00:01:57 GMT
While it's nice to see Microsoft getting what they deserve (albeit from the
government rather than all the roadkill they've left behind them) - from a
Linux users' point of view, we might prefer to hope it doesn't get broken up
into smaller companies.
The problem is, if a baby-Microsoft was put in charge of maintaining future
versions of Windows without the various distractions their current OS division
is subject to, they might finally realise that they could make a much better OS
if they focused on simplest solutions to problems and put their effort into
getting everything to work properly before loading it up with pointless and
unnecessary features, layering bugs on top of bugs.
If this happened, Windows actually might become half decent. Not fully decent,
but robust and reliable enough for all but the most dedicated hardcore geek.
This would reduce the incentive to switch to Linux - afterall, we Linux users
do put up with a lot of crap for our choice, we just happen to think that the
benefits are worth it.
In the meantime, lets make sure the momentum continues - keep making Linux
easier for the wannebe-not-quite-there-yet-nerds who want to learn, and keep
improving the apps - I'm doing my bit, whenever I get the chance.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: The Dream World of Linux Zealots
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 00:27:28 GMT
On Tue, 2 May 2000 22:05:56 +0200, Mig Mig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>OK.. we now know youre an idiot since it actually is very easy. A collegue
>of mine that never has touched Linux managed to get a machine on the net
>without any problems - in Mandrake 7.0!
You Linvocates should really learn how to read better.
I didn't say get a linux machine "on the net" I said, set up a home
network, with a firewall, internet connection sharing.
Tell me your friend can do that as easily as running internet
connection sharing wizard under Windows or clicking on Zonealarm.
I doubt it...
------------------------------
From: JTK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Is the PC era over?
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 19:51:36 -0500
JEDIDIAH wrote:
>
> On Tue, 02 May 2000 15:12:29 -0500, JTK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >Chris Kelly wrote:
> >>
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >> >[pearls of wisdom snipped]
> >>
> >> I sure hope you're right, Petilon. Like Scott and Larry, I don't think
> >> most people should have to bother with computing issues. Instead,
> >> almost everyone should have an NC connected to a central server which
> >> is managed by a team of white-lab-coat clad experts, who shall dole
> >> out computing power only to those deemed worthy, just like in the good
> >> ol' days.
> >>
> >> The massive democratization of computing power over the last two
> >> decades truly disgusts me. Windows98? Let them use a VT102!
> >>
> >
> >Pfhht, yeah, I suppose if you're absolutely made of money! VT52 is good
> >enough for 'em. Hell, it's better than what they have in Red China!
>
> There's certainly quite a bit of computing power that's wasted.
Quite a bit?!?! There's a HORRIFIC amout of computing power that's
wasted! So do your part to put it to good use:
http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/
> However, that's not the real problem that's relevant to an end
> user.
Amen brother. I don't know a single soul who thinks he has *too much*
computer power on his desk.
> A general purpose kludge klone is a complex beast.
So's a car. But I'd rather drive than wait for the bus.
Get it, 'bus'? BAHHAAHHAHAHHAHHAHAAAAA!!
You still got it JTK, you still got it!
> Multiplying them multiply your headaches.
>
I gotta put gas in my car too. Like the man said, if ya can't take the
heat...
> >
> >'The People's Republic of Ellison'. Has a nice ring to it, dontcha
> >think?
> >
> >"But if you go carryin' pictures of Chairman Mao, ..."
> >
> >[snip]
>
> The masses are quite often willing to be duped in such a fashion
> in order to gain a promise of convenience or security.
>
All too willing, as is clearly evidenced by AOL's tragic success. But
it's a long road from that to the green-screened days of yesteryear's
dumb terminals which we now call 'NC's for some reason. A road that is
too long and too narrow for Big Iron to traverse. No my friend, the NC
will fail as many times as it takes for Leapin' Larry to finally get the
message: POWER TO THE PEOPLE BABY YEAH!
> Welcome to the tyranny of the majority.
>
"...we'd all love to see the plan. Ya ask me for a contribution,
weh-ell you know, we all doing' what we ca-a-a-an."
> --
>
> |||
> / | \
>
> Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: My question has still not been answered.Dance..Dance...Dance...
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 00:54:26 GMT
So again for the 3rd time, prove me wrong and show me specifically how
much easier it is to set up:
1. Internet connection sharing.
2. Printer/scanner sharing with Linux/Windows mixed system.
3. Firewall (software based).
Again under Win98SE:
1. Internet connection sharing:
Try help "how do I share my internet connection?" duhhhhhh
2. Printer Sharing:
Click on Printers/Share Duhhhh again.
3. Firewall:
Try Zonealarm which has been written up in just about every
magazine and trade rag. No configuration necessary. It blocks your
ports and informs you with a popup everytime something is trying to
gain access to your system. You have the option of giving access or
not. No need to type in all kinds of ip addresses although you can do
that if you wish also.
So how does one go about doing this easily under Linux?
It's very easy to do under Windows. Not one file to edit.
So how about a direct rebuttal to prove me wrong instead of all of the
lame attempts at deflecting a direct question.
Is answering a direct question too difficult for the Linux people?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Dvorak calls Microsoft on 'innovation'
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 00:59:04 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
JTK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > Calls to break-up Microsoft are increasing -- not from Microsoft's
> > competitors, but from people who depend on the PC for a living, such
> > as Ziff-Davis, and columnist Dvorak:
Dvorak is like a railroad crossing signal, clanging loudly as train
after train passes him by.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: So what is wrong with X?
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 21:08:50 -0400
Mike wrote:
>
> "mlw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Stephen Cornell wrote:
> > >
> > > mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > > What I am suggesting is that the `X-client/X-server' division of
> > > labour is too unequal, and that a `remote server/local not-too-thin
> > > client' approach leads to much less wasted bandwidth. I know this is
> > > nothing new, and I also know that this approach can be (and is) used
> > > with applications that run under X. However, as far as I know there
> > > is no standard protocol (API?) for creating GUIs in this way, so
> > > programmers are not encouraged to write most software according to
> > > this model.
>
> > Actually, I found your message very well thought out, however, a remote
> > Windowing environment such as X (terminal server too!) either have to
> > support regular applications or "special" applications coded for
> > remoteness. Perhaps it is possible to make "remote aware" optimized
> > programs, but I digress.
>
> > You talk about the client end picking up more of the processing. Perhaps
> > sending and receiving meta information about what the user wants, having
> > the server provide the information whilst the client handles the whole
> > presentation end. This sort of remote server you are talking about is
> > very well represented by a web browser.
>
> But a web browser doesn't go far enough. It connects to remote machines very
> nicely, and exchanges meta-information. But to support client-server
> applications, the client would specify which application the server should
> run, and the server would start it and provide the communication channel to
> the client.
Yes, this is true, but balanced client/server applications must be
designed to be such. It would be a cool project to make a fully balanced
client/server GUI tool kit, but I doubt it would be flexible enough to
do the broad range of applications which can be built using X. The issue
is that porting would be a real pain in the butt, the cross section of
code would be huge and probably be too platform specific.
>
> -- Mike --
--
Mohawk Software
Windows 9x, Windows NT, UNIX, Linux. Applications, drivers, support.
Visit http://www.mohawksoft.com
"We've got a blind date with destiny, and it looks like she ordered the
lobster"
------------------------------
From: Jen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Dvorak calls Microsoft on 'innovation'
Date: 2 May 2000 20:12:34 -0500
On Tue, 02 May 2000 19:01:51 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>Calls to break-up Microsoft are increasing -- not from Microsoft's
>competitors, but from people who depend on the PC for a living, such
>as Ziff-Davis, and columnist Dvorak:
>
> http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2559857,00.html
>
>In the above article Dvorak asks, where are Microsoft's innovations,
>apart from the squiggly line? Dvorak then goes on to explain how
>Microsoft is hurting the industry.
>
>Dvorak also charges that Microsoft hires PR agencies to make
>pro-Microsoft postings on on-line forums (which presumably includes
>c.l.j.a)
Funny how he didn't name names. How convenient.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Dinosaur Eat Blue Penguin?
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 01:08:31 GMT
In article <27FO4.777$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"ax" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> People are chatting about what the two new Microsoft Dinosaur will do.
One
> speculation I heard is that Windows' Dinosaur will buy out Corel to
pick
> fight with its twin Office Dinosaur. Is this just a speculation? Any
> rationale behind it?
>
> If Dinosaur likes to eat Penguin, why it choose PERFECTly DRAWn blue
one
> instead of the Red?
No, no, no. What would be _really_ interesting is if Corel or Red Hat
bought one of the baby Bills. Now that _would_ be something to get all
worked up about.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: MS App. Spin-Off Company Logo Revealed?
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 01:13:34 GMT
In article <LJgP4.3080$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rob Clark) wrote:
> While publicly denying any plans to split the corporation, Microsoft
> quietly has begun the application process for a new ticker symbol on
> NASDAQ for a new non-OS company, Coruscant Technologies [CRSH]
>
> http://www.grapevine.net/~gromitkc/coruscant.png
>
Strange... I would have thought that their logo would have been the
outstretched lone middle finger.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: "Bob May" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.lang.basic,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: QB 4.5 in Win 2000
Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 18:26:50 -0700
Go buy a new copy of Word for Windows 1.0.
Go buy a new copy of Visual Basic 2.0
YOU CAN'T!!!!! All you can buy is the newer versions of the programs
which also cost a lot more than the earlier versions.
--
Bob May
Don't subscribe to ACCESS1 for your webserver for the low prices. The
service has
been lousy and has been poor for the last year. Bob May
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas)
Crossposted-To:
alt.conspiracy,alt.conspiracy.area51,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,talk.politics
Subject: Re: Are we equal?
Date: 3 May 2000 01:28:59 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy JEDIDIAH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 2 May 2000 18:01:51 GMT, abraxas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>In comp.os.linux.advocacy JEDIDIAH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> On a closed isolated island with limited or no freedom of movement,
>>> that's rather difficult to establish really. There are certainly
>>> a significant a visible chunk of the population that feels it
>>> worthwhile to risk death and imprisonment to leave.
>>
>>Have you been to cuba?
> Are you trying to claim that the people that die trying to get
> off the island are doing so for naught? Occam's razor doesn't
> exactly go your way on this one.
I'm simply wondering whether your knowledge is experiential or
theoretical.
Which is not to say that theoretical knowledge is invalid mind you,
simply not entirely useful when one wants to come up with an objective
argument.
=====yttrx
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas)
Crossposted-To:
alt.conspiracy,alt.conspiracy.area51,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,talk.politics
Subject: Re: Are we equal?
Date: 3 May 2000 01:30:05 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy JEDIDIAH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>How does Occams razor feel about the fact that the vast majority of
>>Cubans stay in Cuba? The most likely reason is that most people dont
> ...as they do in China, Albania and did in the Soviet Union.
I see that you have probably not been to cuba. It *is* possible
for an american citizen to travel to cube; I would highly suggest
it. It may be a little different than your assumptions.
=====yttrx
------------------------------
Subject: Re: The Dream World of Linux Zealots
From: Ciaran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 18:31:49 -0700
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
>On Tue, 2 May 2000 22:05:56 +0200, Mig Mig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>OK.. we now know youre an idiot since it actually is very
easy. A collegue
>>of mine that never has touched Linux managed to get a machine
on the net
>>without any problems - in Mandrake 7.0!
>
>You Linvocates should really learn how to read better.
>I didn't say get a linux machine "on the net" I said, set up a
home
>network, with a firewall, internet connection sharing.
>Tell me your friend can do that as easily as running internet
>connection sharing wizard under Windows or clicking on
Zonealarm.
>
>I doubt it...
You doubt it ? This implies to me that you dont know. Have you
ever tried to do this with anything other than Windows ? Have you
ever configured anything in Linux ?
If fact what, exactly is the point of your comment ? Do you
*want* linux to be able to be more easily configured by novice
users and hence get more home use market share ? Or do you want
it to fail ? Sorry about all the questions, but you attitude(and
others like yours) confuse me. I dont see the point of it(other
than being an obvious troll)
Cheers,
Ciaran
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Is the PC era over?
Date: 3 May 2000 01:33:52 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Terry Sikes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Moving toward more headache-free computing doesn't necessarily entail
> losing CPU power. Witness the success of the iMac. ;-)
> "Dumb terminal" computing will never return - 3D games are too popular.
> (For that matter, fast CPUs are too inexpensive.)
"Dumb terminal"s have come quite a long way, tracing an evolutionary
path similar to microcomputers.
http://www.sun.com/products/sunray1/
Now that gigabit ethernet has found its way to something other than
backplane replacement for core routers, we may see some very
interesting developments in the near future.
=====yttrx
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Dvorak calls Microsoft on 'innovation'
From: petilon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 18:34:37 -0700
Jen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>Dvorak also charges that Microsoft hires PR agencies to make
>>pro-Microsoft postings on on-line forums (which presumably
>>includes c.l.j.a)
>
>Funny how he didn't name names. How convenient.
>
What, you want names too?
OK. I can help:
http://x42.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=477646873
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (CAguy)
Subject: Re: Sofware paztents and Micro$oft history
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 01:50:33 GMT
>
>Does Microsoft have that many software patents? And is its "success"
>something that we should want to extend?
>
Yes, Microsoft has alot of patents...for instance
Cascading style sheets
Using a proxy dll for cross process communications (DCOM)
The concept of a GUI slider control
print/output preview
enhanced drag & drop with list options
Black and white printing of color pages
Text completion with list suggestions
COMs apartment threading concept
The concept of a GUI tree view control with inplace editing
Editing and formating data in a dialog box
Real world interface with animated characters (Bob?)
Dynamic menu construction basic on active program mode
Computer based electronic slide show
The concept of shipping GUI widgets with the system
Anyway, I just tried to pick out the obvious ones (there
are tons more). As you can see, if MS wanted to shut
down the entire software industry (or at least a good
portion of it) it could. But I don't think they have any
intention of enforcing these patents. They are defensive
patents for the most part. MS has specifically said they
won't enforce the CSS one.
By the way, Microsoft isn't the only company filling
patents for ridiculously simple software concepts. Sun
Microsystems patented the concept of a transparent
GUI window, for instance. It's all about keeping your
butt out of court!!
James
------------------------------
From: John & Susie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Reservations about splitting up MS...
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 21:55:03 -0400
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> While it's nice to see Microsoft getting what they deserve (albeit from the
> government rather than all the roadkill they've left behind them) - from a
> Linux users' point of view, we might prefer to hope it doesn't get broken up
> into smaller companies.
>
> The problem is, if a baby-Microsoft was put in charge of maintaining future
> versions of Windows without the various distractions their current OS division
> is subject to, they might finally realise that they could make a much better OS
> if they focused on simplest solutions to problems and put their effort into
> getting everything to work properly before loading it up with pointless and
> unnecessary features, layering bugs on top of bugs.
>
> If this happened, Windows actually might become half decent. Not fully decent,
> but robust and reliable enough for all but the most dedicated hardcore geek.
> This would reduce the incentive to switch to Linux - afterall, we Linux users
> do put up with a lot of crap for our choice, we just happen to think that the
> benefits are worth it.
>
> In the meantime, lets make sure the momentum continues - keep making Linux
> easier for the wannebe-not-quite-there-yet-nerds who want to learn, and keep
> improving the apps - I'm doing my bit, whenever I get the chance.
Why is this a problem?
------------------------------
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