Linux-Advocacy Digest #317, Volume #30 Sun, 19 Nov 00 22:13:05 EST
Contents:
Re: wahoo! I'm running now ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Uptime -- where is NT? (Phil 'Guido' Cava)
Re: Uptime -- where is NT? (Phil 'Guido' Cava)
Re: Uptime -- where is NT? ("Les Mikesell")
Re: wahoo! I'm running now (.)
Re: wahoo! I'm running now (.)
Re: I have had it up to *here* with Linux (.)
Re: I have had it up to *here* with Linux (.)
Re: The Sixth Sense ("Les Mikesell")
Re: OS stability (sfcybear)
Re: Of course, there is a down side... ("Les Mikesell")
Re: Linux trips over itself once again ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux growth rate explosion! ("Les Mikesell")
Re: Linux trips over itself once again ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux trips over itself once again ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Of course, there is a down side... (Mike Byrns)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: wahoo! I'm running now
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 20:45:23 -0500
Les Mikesell wrote:
>
> "Todd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:8v7rtr$vrg$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > >
> > > Glitches: Specifying memory addresses for the NIC. It would be much
> > > better if there were some way of doing this automagically, but even if
> > > you have to do it by hand, a quick prompt that you should be using 0x
> > > style memory addresses would be a Good Thing. Sigh.
> >
> > Or use Windows 2000 and have it automatically installed and configured
> (for
> > both PCI or legacy ISA cards). Why should you have to know memory
> > addresses??
>
> I hope you understand that it is impossible in general to automatically
> detect ISA card settings and that any claim otherwise is a lie. Some
> cards can be probed, some can't, and some of the probes needed to
> autodetect some devices will accidentally prevent others from working.
>
> > > The NT server is now dark, waiting for the moment when it will become
> > > the next Linux server on the network. I can't wait.
> >
> > Oh boy oh boy oh boy. Why are you even using NT? Windows 2000 is
> released,
> > btw, and pretty much smokes Linux on all counts.
>
> If you didn't like NT, why are you still dealing with the same company?
>
What else would you expect from an obedient slave?
> Les Mikesell
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: Phil 'Guido' Cava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Uptime -- where is NT?
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 02:15:15 GMT
ONLY 497 days, My what a problem for Sun! Why that's only an order of magnitude
greater than the max time NT is capable of reporting... which, of course, is
itself probably an order of magnitude greater than NT is capable of achieving...
Guido
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> "sfcybear" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:8v8v02$hpi$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Ahhh, I love it! Deffending NT by saying there is something wrong with
> > it. And I would say, that retruning a random uptime is something wrong.
>
> Well, no Linux or Solaris server will *EVER* be #1 in a complete list. In
> fact, In about a year, I'd expect no Solaris or Linux servers to be on the
> top 50 list. Since these servers also have a similar bug which will prevent
> them from ever displaying an uptime of larger than 497 days.
------------------------------
From: Phil 'Guido' Cava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Uptime -- where is NT?
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 02:18:05 GMT
Oh Wow, Win2K has clustering built in! Only several years after it was promised,
of course; but, why trouble John/Todd/Whoever with a little matter like that!
We all know (from long experience) that if MS released Dog-Shit and called it
Tutti-Frutti, John/Todd/Whoever would pronounce it the best Tutti-Frutti ever...
after a BIG gulp that is.
regards,
Guido
Todd wrote:
> "Bob Lyday" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > http://uptime.netcraft.com/today/top.avg.html
> >
> > Note that in this survey of the longest uptimes, every single one of
> > them is running some form of Unix. Not even one single one is running
> > any Microsoft OS, even Windows 2000, which ZDNet just stated is the
> > best webserver of all in a recent issue.
>
> If you actually *read* the FAQ regarding uptime, you would have seen this:
>
> "Additionally, NT4 uptimes cycle back to zero after 49.7 days, and give
> timestamps exactly as if the machine had been rebooted at this precise
> point, while HP-UX, Linux, Solaris and recent releases of FreeBSD also cycle
> back to zero after 497 days. "
>
> So, NT could not possibly 'beat' any system.
>
> Regarding Windows 2000, SP1 debuted recently and the system does need to be
> rebooted for it to take effect.
>
> However, 'Availability' is what *users* are concerned with, and with Windows
> 2000 Advanced Server, you can easily set up clustering (built into Windows
> 2000).
>
> Clustering provides high availability even if the software or *hardware*
> fails on one of the machines.
>
> A much better setup than relying on just one machine.
>
> -Todd
>
> > --
> > Bob
> > "Nigeria is a continent." "Trade with Mexico is not foreign trade."
> > "Is our children learning?" People from Greece are called Grecians."
> > "Social Security is not a federal program." George Bush, Einsteinian
> > genius, ex-con, ex-cokehead, ex-adulterer, ex-drunk and popularly
> > defeated Presidential candidate, demonstrating his stunning
> > intellectual breadth and encyclopedic knowledge.
> > Remove "diespammersdie" to reply.
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Uptime -- where is NT?
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 02:22:15 GMT
"Todd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8v8jct$llk$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> However, 'Availability' is what *users* are concerned with, and with
Windows
> 2000 Advanced Server, you can easily set up clustering (built into Windows
> 2000).
>
> Clustering provides high availability even if the software or *hardware*
> fails on one of the machines.
Unless, of course, it is the clustering software that fails, or one of the
machines decides to erase the shared drives. I don't quite understand
the concept of expecting only part of your software to fail.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.)
Subject: Re: wahoo! I'm running now
Date: 20 Nov 2000 02:34:33 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> One click under Windows 2000 and you have file and print sharing
> enabled.
Oh really? And which click would that be? Seems to be about a
minimum of 7 clicks actually.
Then again, no one should be surprised that youre lying.
> And printing doesn't mean searching all over the net for some half
> aborted, half functioning driver for your non PS printer either.
1. you shouldnt be using a non PS printer. The last non PS printer
I used was sold about 7 years ago.
> Two months wasted on Linsux...
Thats because youre an idiot.
=====.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.)
Subject: Re: wahoo! I'm running now
Date: 20 Nov 2000 02:36:24 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On 19 Nov 2000 06:54:16 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Topaz Crow)
> wrote:
>>Simple example: Two mouse clicks to cut and paste in Linux. Six in Windows.
>>Hmmm? I don't think Linux is any less productive on the desktop. I use it
>>on mine and have not used Windows on my computers for more than a year. I'm
>>very happy with it.
> Windows cut's and pastes between all it's applications. Does Linux?
> Nope.
Actually, it sure does.
And windows doesnt *actually* cut and paste between all of its applications.
Try copying template text from netscape and pasting it to notepad. It
doesnt work.
In order for C&P to work between ALL applications, your choice at the moment
is to run a GUI that is postscript display; and there are three of them. One
of them hasnt been around in about 4 years.
Care to tell the class what they are, claire?
=====.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.)
Subject: Re: I have had it up to *here* with Linux
Date: 20 Nov 2000 02:37:02 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> "Code" runs faster on Linux? Or faster on Windows?
> Who the hell cares what speed some snippet of a totally useless to the
> average Jane piece of code runs at.
I would expect, the same exact people who tend to not end their sentences
with prepositions.
=====.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.)
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.linux,alt.os.linux,alt.os.linux.mandrake
Subject: Re: I have had it up to *here* with Linux
Date: 20 Nov 2000 02:37:51 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> BEOS has been dropped, long ago as a potential platform by every major
> digital audio program vendor, including Emagic and Steinberg amongst
> others.
Actually, it hasnt. You have no idea what youre talking about, once
again.
But thats not surprising, sinc you dont do any actual meaningful
audio work anyway.
=====.
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Sixth Sense
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 02:46:03 GMT
"Christopher Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8v9ft5$n26$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> > > Well, duh. Links are only useful to someone with a filesystem that
> > > understands them.
> >
> > No, they work fine in any number of cross-platform way. File
> > servers, ftp servers, etc. all follow symlinks.
>
> With translation at the server OS end, obviously. What makes you think
> there would be any difference if you wrote an FTP server for Windows that
> treated a shortcut like a link ?
The point is that you don't have to write a special kind of server. Unix
is not made of enormous special-case kludges cascaded on top of
each other. Symlinks are handled by open() - any open automatically
works with them.
> > The point
> > of a link is that all programs can use them.
>
> The point of a shortcut is that anything making use of the shell's
features
> can use them, and the extra features they offer.
Yes - a typical special-case situation in windows.
> >
> > That depends on the option you use. Most programs don't know that
> > links are different than the thing they reference which is the whole
> > point of having them, so if you copy them you normally get a
> > copy of the target. However, some programs do know and can
> > copy and move them. Dump/restore, tar, etc. obviously have to
> > know, cp with the -d (don't dereference) option, rsync, and some
> > others. Whether they work when copied depends on the target
> > still being in the right place - an absolute path (starting with slash)
> > will work anywhere on the same machine, but on another machine
> > it would depend on the target being in the same place. Likewise
> > relative links depend on the target being in the right relative place.
>
> My point, I believe. You can't just grab a link like you do any other
file,
> take it somewhere else and expect it to work. Even if the target hasn't
> changed.
Hard links word this way, although only within the same filesystem.
There must be special cases of when you can and can't move
shortcuts too. What if you make a shortcut to a network mounted
file and then disconnect the network drive or move it to a different
drive letter?
> > > I've yet to bump into a Win32 program that couldn't make use of a
> > shortcut.
> >
> > Yes, clearly limited.
>
> How so ?
In case you haven't noticed, not everything is a win32 program, although
a certain company would like to force you to use nothing else.
> > > Printers ? URLs ? Networked computers ? Shares on networked
computers
> ?
> > > Being able to transport these things between machines just by emailing
> or
> > > copying to a floppy disk ? How do symlinks do these things ?
> >
> > URLs are a relatively new concept that depend on programs to interpret
> > them, but symlinks appear to be files and devices to any program that
> > knows how to open a file or device (and on unix these appear the same).
> > Devices are always your 'own' devices - the magic of opening a device
> > is accessing the major/minor driver numbers known to your own kernel,
> > but files can be accessed from anywhere - that is the target may be a
> > network mounted directory or file.
>
> That's interesting, but something I already knew. Care to answer the
> question now ?
If you knew how that works, why did you ask about printers, network
shares, etc? Of course they all work through symlinks.
> > Agreed, but given symlinks most of the reasons to have shortcuts go
away.
>
> Given shortcuts, most of the reasons for symlinks go away. Your point ?
Hardly. The most useful cases for symlinks are directories and devices.
Shortcuts don't even come close, even if you supply all the special-case
software that understands them.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: sfcybear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: OS stability
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 02:40:12 GMT
> Wow. Every machine you've ever worked on has been continuously
powered up
> for years. That's amazing. You not only completely beat out every
> statistic known to man, but have never applied a kernel patch either.
Ever.
>
> Now we know what kind of an engineer you are. One that has never done
his
> job.
I noticed that you snipped the question that he asked. Why did you do
that? I think it is a very valid question. Here it is again:
"Please explaine what sort of 'motherboard maintenance' will
prevent, or at least delay CPU and Memory failures?"
I will also add:
What sort of "motherboard maintenance" will prevent motherboard failure?
How affective is it? What is the percentage of failures can the tester
expect to prevent?
How many failures are CAUSED by handling the hardware?
Just how long does it take to run this maintenance?
What are the main vendors and products of test equipment for
Motherboards, memory, CPU's and harddisks that market to corporate MIS
departments (not PC manufacturers)
Where can I look for some of this marketing material (in publications
and catalogs aimed at MIS personell)?
Where are some trade magazines that recomend this type of hardware
testing?
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Of course, there is a down side...
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 02:50:51 GMT
"Mike Byrns" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> > Certainly the text editors which come with the debian linux distro are
> > far superior to notepad.exe which comes with windows. I like vi, but
> > joe is interesting, and emacs is nearly an os anyway. There're stacks
> > of them and all seem better than notepad.
> >
> > Mark
>
> How many do you need? There are actually three editors that ship with
> Windows, notepad, wordpad and edit. To each his own.
You need one or more with regular expression matching and substitution.
How many of the ones included with Windows have it?
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux trips over itself once again
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 02:52:19 GMT
On Sun, 19 Nov 2000 18:25:02 -0500, Gary Hallock
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>> Once again Linux, in this case Mandrake 7.2, has failed to install on
>> a system that has easily installed Windows.
>>
>> System:
>> Thinkpad 765L with a 3gb drive, external floppy drive and a
>> Sigma Data 24x CDROM in the ultrabay. PCMCIA cards include a TokenRing
>> and modem. BTW I tried it with and without the PCMCIA cards installed.
>> Hard drive is freshly formatted with DOS and is one large partition.
>> Since this machine will not boot from the CDROM I had to use one of
>> the other methods according to the Mandrake readme.
>>
>
>What, is this another one of your personalities that doesn't know what
>the other one did? You have been claiming for a while now that you
>successfully installed Linux on that Thinkpad but you have been unable to
>get the token ring card to work. Now you claim you can't even read from
>the CD. Which is it?
That was SuSE 6.4 which is the ONLY one of the distros that works,
excepting the Token Ring.
Learn to read again Gary..
YaST is your clue here.
>But, just so you think I',m not helpful. Turn the machine off, open it
>up, pull out the CD drive, and plug it back in. Sometimes those CD
>drives will pop out slightly during transit if you didn't properly lock
>them into place.
Been down that road before, didn't work this time.
claire
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux growth rate explosion!
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 02:54:19 GMT
"Tim Tyler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In comp.lang.java.advocacy Artur Biesiadowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> : Chad Myers wrote:
>
> :> But it has to break up the database into seperate files or
> :> do some other fancy tricks right?
>
> : Excuse me, but do you think that keeping entire database in single file
> : is good idea ? Does oracle (which seems to be clear winner in terms of
> : scalibility) keep entire database in single file ? No [...]
>
> : What's the difference if db would like to keep every table in separate
> : file ??
>
> For one thing, recovery from corruption is likely to be easier.
How do you think MS is getting any speed in those TPC benchmarks?
They not only put every table in a separate file, they put it on a
separate machine. If they understand how that works, why does
access still dump everything into one big mess?
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux trips over itself once again
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 02:55:42 GMT
On Sun, 19 Nov 2000 22:17:17 +0000, Pete Goodwin
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Claire, you can have the same kind of stories on Windows...
I realize that some people have problems installing Windows, but that
number is no where near, not even close, to the problems they have or
will have installing Linux.
>Story number one
>Somehow he had run setup.exe three times! The instructions and setup.exe
>don't match in what actually happens, so it made it all the more confusing
>(what README would he go for here, I wonder?).
He probobly had the CD in the drive and twhen the machine rebooted he
didn't close the Window and off it went again. I've seen people do
this many times.
>
>Story number two
>
>I was trying to install Windows NT on a machine and every time it would get
>to a point in the setup and hang. I had to reboot to get out of it. I
>didn't know it at the time, but if I had waited around five minutes (!), it
>would have continued. This was a bug in setup. It disappeared in the next
>version.
It happens, but far less than the problems with Linux setups.
>And of course, you can get the same kind of story on Linux, Story number
>three
>
>I reinstalled Linux Mandrake 7.2 trying to make sure KDE2 and its
>development libraries were installed after mucking them up. I choose to not
>install everything as I did before, and ended up with a system without ppp!
>Now, I don't recally anything that indicated that wouldn't be installed. I
>did turn off installation of database software, yet I found mysql was
>installed.
>
>With the package manager I installed ppp and removed mysql and everything
>is just fine.
claire
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux trips over itself once again
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 03:04:50 GMT
On Sun, 19 Nov 2000 23:38:53 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Charlie
Ebert) wrote:
>You bought IBM. Then you HAVE IBM support idiot!
>
>Charlie
Try:
www.ibm.com and search under support for Thinkpad+Linux and see what
you get.
BTW this beast was given to me.
claire
claire
------------------------------
From: Mike Byrns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Of course, there is a down side...
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 03:06:56 GMT
Les Mikesell wrote:
> "Mike Byrns" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> >
> > > Certainly the text editors which come with the debian linux distro are
> > > far superior to notepad.exe which comes with windows. I like vi, but
> > > joe is interesting, and emacs is nearly an os anyway. There're stacks
> > > of them and all seem better than notepad.
> > >
> > > Mark
> >
> > How many do you need? There are actually three editors that ship with
> > Windows, notepad, wordpad and edit. To each his own.
>
> You need one or more with regular expression matching and substitution.
> How many of the ones included with Windows have it?
>
> Les Mikesell
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
No Les, YOU need one with regex capability. You are not representative of the
typical computer user. Try something -- stop some folks next time you're at
the mall -- ask them what a regular expression is...
------------------------------
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