Linux-Advocacy Digest #181, Volume #33 Thu, 29 Mar 01 18:13:05 EST
Contents:
Re: Communism (Barry Manilow)
Re: Why does Open Source exist, and what way is it developing?
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Communism (Barry Manilow)
Re: German armed forces ban MS software <gloat!> (Roger)
TurboLinux Lite (Barry Manilow)
Re: Suse vs RH/Mandrake ? (or what's so great about 7.2) (John Hong)
Re: Some OS security thoughts (Bob Hauck)
Re: For when Linux developers get bored (news item) ("Interconnect")
Re: Communism (Bob G)
Re: TurboLinux Lite (Matthew Gardiner)
Re: Here is the response from Microsoft regarding Linux and Piracy: ("Joel Barnett")
Re: Here is the response from Microsoft regarding Linux and Piracy: (Matthew
Gardiner)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Barry Manilow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,us.military.army
Subject: Re: Communism
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 12:13:41 -0800
Ian Davey wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
> >Remember...several MILLION Americans took an oath to defend the Constitution
> >from all enemies, foreign AND DOMESTIC.
I suppose you are right. I always loved the Sandinista national
anthem, "America, Enemy of Mankind". The US has a lot of potential
but it often gets directed in the wrong way. I gave money to the FMLN
in El Salvador (remember them?). Does that make me a supporter of
terrorism. I supported most of the national liberation movements in
Latin America like the Sandinistas, the FMLN, the URNG in Guatemala,
and the MRTA in Peru, and the Chilean group that tried to assassinate
Pinochet. Most of these groups were trained in Cuba, by the way. :)
Also the Phillipine revolutionaries. Not the Shining Path tho. And I
am not real wild about the Colombian guerillas. I do, however,
support the Mexican revolutionaries, including the EZLN.
As far as the US Army guys that are down there in Colombia right now,
I agree with the Colombian rebels that they are military targets.
Hey, you join a war, you are gonna get targeted. I'm sorry the US has
jumped into the Colombian game and is throwing up our good men as
targets. If we are going to get involved in wars, we ought to get in
on the right side.
> >
> >So...when we line you up against the wall....don't forget
> >
> > I TOLD YOU SO.
>
I'm scaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaared Aaron. :)
--
Bob
Being flamed? Don't know why? Take the Flame Questionnaire(TM)
today!
Why do you think you are being flamed?
[ ] You continued a long, stupid thread
[ ] You started an off-topic thread
[ ] You posted something totally uninteresting
[ ] People don't like your tone of voice
[ ] Other (describe)
[ ] None of the above
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Why does Open Source exist, and what way is it developing?
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 22:31:00 +0200
OK!!
One says (Chad Everett), there is no connection with Darwin. What he
says is quite right, but I think there is one.
Because no one knows which is going to happen in future!! So, the method
of developing software could be labeled as "intelligent", but if I ask
you; do you think the person which designed your body is intelligent??
I am sure you would say "yes", independent of the fact, according to
Darwin's theory, no "person" developed you. I think you can say that
developing software is going the same way as the evolution process, but
going *much* faster!
But I am still thinking all day about this, and can not solve this
question. So, please react if you have an other argument.
Greetings,
Wilbertmlw wrote:
>
> Wilbert Kruithof wrote:
> >
> > Hello!
> [snipped]
>
> I can only offer my own opinion. Take it as anything you like.
>
> Raw communism destroys.
> Raw capitalism destroys.
>
> Open source represents a way for people who love what they do, to do what they
> do, perhaps, even, very well.
>
> People may assign what ever political / economic viewpoint they wish. When I
> release Open Source software it is because I think it is kind of cool, and
> might be useful to people that need it.
>
> Maybe people don't understand, hell, I don't know, but for many people that
> work with computers, we *like* to write software. I write algorithms for fun.
> Some of the stuff I write may never be useful to anyone else, but I make bits
> and pieces available for people because it is fun.
>
> Currently my title is "chief architect," it is all compromises. Open Source
> allows me to release something when it is still bloody and also allows me the
> time I want to make it right.
>
> I think open source is typically better because it is either more innovative or
> better refined. When there is no marketing department pulling the strings,
> things are available for their technical merit.
>
> --
> I'm not offering myself as an example; every life evolves by its own laws.
> ------------------------
> http://www.mohawksoft.com
--
Linux Prometheus 2.4.2 #1 Tue Mar 20 20:42:22 CET 2001 i686
Homepage: http://home.hccnet.nl/wilbert.kruithof/
------------------------------
From: Barry Manilow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Communism
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 12:42:28 -0800
"." wrote:
> >>
> >> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >> > You are so badly brainwashed the the ONLY cure for you is 130 grains
> >> > of copper-jacketed lead to your head.
> >>
> >> Your death threat has been reported to yahoo. Sorry about that.
>
> His intention is not important. What yahoo thinks is important. They thanked
> me for the notice and assured me that there would be police involvement if they
> deemed it nessesary.
>
Hehehehehe. Go yttrx go!!!!!! :)
--
Bob
Being flamed? Don't know why? Take the Flame Questionnaire(TM)
today!
Why do you think you are being flamed?
[ ] You continued a long, stupid thread
[ ] You started an off-topic thread
[ ] You posted something totally uninteresting
[ ] People don't like your tone of voice
[ ] Other (describe)
[ ] None of the above
------------------------------
From: Roger <roger@.>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: German armed forces ban MS software <gloat!>
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 14:52:26 -0600
On Thu, 29 Mar 2001 16:36:11 GMT, someone claiming to be T. Max Devlin
wrote:
>Said Paul 'Z' Ewande® in alt.destroy.microsoft on Thu, 29 Mar 2001
>>"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit dans le message news:
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> Nope, sorry, can't blame hardware. Not unless you can point to
>>I can't. Watch me: I've seen different behaviours on various systems with
>>different versions of
>And made assumptions about the variables that are entirely unsupported,
>and in fact ridiculous, no doubt. Like my old buddy Roger, who had to
>replace his video *hardware* to get *IE* to work, and acted as if it was
>a hardware failure.
1. Not now, nor never was your buddy
2. Never made such a claim.
Of course, what can you expect from a person with so much Internet
experience that he once berated another poster for using his
postmaster's IP address. Said address being 127.0.01.
Or that MS had a monopoly on OS before the IBM PC.
Or...
... but you get the idea.
------------------------------
From: Barry Manilow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: TurboLinux Lite
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 13:01:59 -0800
Hi folks to get off the wonderful commie subject for a sec, I have the
opportunity to get a copy of Turbo Linux Lite from a friend of mine.
I figured it was probably legal to have him burn a copy of it and give
it to me but I wanted to check in here to see first. I have never
used Linux before. I have only used DOS, WinDOS 3x, 95, 98, Win NT,
Mac OS and OS/2. I also would have to figure out how to partition a
drive on my hard drive to install it. I suppose I will have to use
Lilo? The drive is already partitioned between OS/2 Warp 4.5 and
WinDOS 98. Wondering what the Lite in the title of the distrib
means? Also wondering where I can find any docs on TurboLinux. TIA
to all answers. Also wondering whether my system will support Linux.
Basic Quantum Hard drive.
Creative Sound Blaster 16 PNP PCI card
Epson ES-1200C scanner
Canon BJC-6000 printer
Adaptec AVA-1505 SCSI card
Diamond Stealth III S540 video card
Mitsumi CD-ROM
Mitsumi CR-4804TE
US Robotics 56K FAX EXT PnP external modem
Asus motherboard
Aladdin chipset
--
Bob
Being flamed? Don't know why? Take the Flame Questionnaire(TM)
today!
Why do you think you are being flamed?
[ ] You continued a long, stupid thread
[ ] You started an off-topic thread
[ ] You posted something totally uninteresting
[ ] People don't like your tone of voice
[ ] Other (describe)
[ ] None of the above
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hong)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Re: Suse vs RH/Mandrake ? (or what's so great about 7.2)
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 20:20:58 +0000 (UTC)
Julian Bordas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>John Hong wrote:
>
>> They have a publically downloadable version of SuSE 7.1 *right
>> now*. The thing is, you can not actually install it on your machine. It
>> will only run from a bootable CDROM and no more. To actually get SuSE 7.1
>> you have to purchase either the Personal or Professional edition.
>Hmm... I downloaded it and installed it and it runs!!
I'm afraid what you have can not be SuSE 7.1 from SuSE then.
Check out an update from www.linuxiso.org. They have an exerpt from an
email from SuSE stating that there will be *no* installable SuSE 7.1 from
them. What you have is probably someone elses attempt at making one.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck)
Subject: Re: Some OS security thoughts
Reply-To: hauck[at]codem{dot}com
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 21:23:45 GMT
On Thu, 29 Mar 2001 17:08:15 GMT, Mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>"Bob Hauck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> And you never want to run it more than once? That seems like an unusual
>> situation to me. Usually when I get scripts from co-workers I want to
>> keep them, so I have to save them anyway.
> And your definition of the unusual situation is obviously the same for
> everyone else, in every situation, everywhere, and only your "usual"
> should be allowed.
It has been my experience that the need to run scripts directly from the
mailer is rare. Does that sound better to you? There sure isn't a
chorus of users asking for it, so on that basis I think my definition of
an unusual situation is a common one. In addition, the experience of
Microsoft systems shows that habitually running scripts this way _is_ a
security problem WRT viruses.
> So, you save the virus laden script, and run it from your user account
> later, and it trashes your system. How did saving it make things more
> secure?
No, it did not. However, having to go through that process does remove
the temptation to "run it just to see".
> Security is more than just making things painful. Mark was right in
> the post that started all this: "[a program received by email] should
> be run in a protected environment."
Sure, but setting up a protected environment is tricky. Just ask the
Java developers. There is a fine line between making it "safe enough"
and making it so that the scripts run in it can't do anything useful.
For instance, you can't allow it to write to your disk, or it could
overwrite your files. That particular one could be overcome by setting
up a chroot environment, but that just pushes the problem down a layer.
What should be included and what should be left out of the chroot jail?
Put in too much and a malicious script could still do damage, too little
and something that you think you need won't work.
Then there's the issue of when it fails and a script damages your
system, or if it does not run a script that you think it should run,
then the vendor of the mailer gets the blame.
If it were easy, it would have been done already. It is far easier to
discourage people from mailing scripts around willy-nilly, and probably
in the long run that's a better approach anyway.
>> Anyway, Roberto Alsina told you how to make your mailer behave the
>> way you want.
>
> And I shall quote: "You can do that with any unix mailer that supports
> mimetypes. You just need to grossly abuse metamail (or kde's
> mime-types, if you want to do it with kmail)."
The tricky part is that most mailers will send scripts with a mime type
of "text/plain". This makes it a little harder than if they sent them
as "application/script or some such. You'd have to change the entry for
the "text/plain" mime type to a program that figures out if it is really
a script (by looking at the first line for example) and if it is, runs
it. If not, it launches an editor.
Now you just have to hack the entry for "application/octet-stream" to
make it run binaries, and you're all set to be a virus vector.
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| Codem Systems, Inc.
-| http://www.codem.com/
------------------------------
From: "Interconnect" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: For when Linux developers get bored (news item)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 08:21:21 +1000
Charles Packer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Noticed in the NY Times. (See at http://cpacker.org/timesfan/faa.html)
>
> March 19, 2001
>
> Compressed Data: An Open-Source Future for FAA?
>
> By MATTHEW L. WALD
>
> The software programs that run on the
> nation's air traffic control computers may
> someday be kept up to date by a corps of
> volunteer programmers in much the same way as
> the widely-respected Linux operating system is
> maintained. This, at least, is the vision of
> some far-sighted analysts who are proposing a
> radical new approach to the FAA's problems
> with delays and dead-ends in the effort to
> modernize.
>
> A recommendation to privatize the air traffic
> system by setting up an independent nonprofit
> corporation raises the possibility of
> following the "open source" model of software
> development in which anyone can inspect and
> contribute to the source code. Currently, the
> millions of lines of code in the system are
> maintained by hundreds of programmers employed
> by a few major corporations. The software does
> a multitude of tasks, such as calculating
> flight trajectories, adjusting traffic as it
> approaches airports and driving the display
> hardware that shows controllers where
> everything is.
>
> According to Robert W. Poole, Jr., co-author
> of the proposal, which may be seen at
> www.rppi.org, they looked at how software is
> actually created for the system and found that
> the original designer of a program often went
> on to another job before finishing it.
> Completion was then left to programmers
> assigned on the basis of availability. "It
> ends up being not much different from the way
> open source code is developed anyway, so why
> pay programmers to do it?" he said.
>
> An FAA official who asked not to be identified
> said "We're taking this seriously," but
> stressed that the government would still be
> the final arbiter of safety in the system,
> perhaps maintaining an "augmented" group of
> software testers.
>
> As for rewards for participating the such an
> effort, Mr. Poole cited the intellectual
> challenge in solving the programming problems
> in a system of that complexity, but added that
> the proposed air traffic corporation might be
> able to offer something more -- frequent flyer
> miles.
>
>
> --
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Charles Packer)
> http://www.clark.net/~whatnews
>
So does this mean someone in Pakistan, Russia or China would be able to
download the software to run their air systems?
If Yes then the idea stands a chance. OTOH if they expect a ground swell of
people to contribute simply to reduce their cost of software development I
think they are sadly mistaken.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob G)
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,misc.survivalism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.singles
Subject: Re: Communism
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 23:10:12 GMT
On 29 Mar 2001 19:01:49 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Roberto Alsina)
wrote:
>On Thu, 29 Mar 2001 10:29:22 -0800, Gunner © <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>Id love to see your cites on the Mexican border/Berlin comparison.
>>Please provide them. I do not recall ever hearing about the AirForce
>>shooting down unarmed civilian aircraft intentionally knowing full well
>>that they were unarmed civilian aircraft.i
>
>I didn't say the airforce killed anyone on the border. It's usually up
>to border patrols, or the good citizens of the US.
Your proof, Roberto?
No flame. I'd really like you to produce the evidence.
REAL numbers.
Bob
I love my country ! It's the politicians I don't
like or trust.
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: TurboLinux Lite
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 10:38:35 +1200
Well, it looks pretty much supported, however, to be 100% sure, could you
tell me the version of Turbo Linux Lite and the kernel version as well.
Matthew Gardiner
Barry Manilow wrote:
> Hi folks to get off the wonderful commie subject for a sec, I have the
> opportunity to get a copy of Turbo Linux Lite from a friend of mine.
> I figured it was probably legal to have him burn a copy of it and give
> it to me but I wanted to check in here to see first. I have never
> used Linux before. I have only used DOS, WinDOS 3x, 95, 98, Win NT,
> Mac OS and OS/2. I also would have to figure out how to partition a
> drive on my hard drive to install it. I suppose I will have to use
> Lilo? The drive is already partitioned between OS/2 Warp 4.5 and
> WinDOS 98. Wondering what the Lite in the title of the distrib
> means? Also wondering where I can find any docs on TurboLinux. TIA
> to all answers. Also wondering whether my system will support Linux.
>
> Basic Quantum Hard drive.
> Creative Sound Blaster 16 PNP PCI card
> Epson ES-1200C scanner
> Canon BJC-6000 printer
> Adaptec AVA-1505 SCSI card
> Diamond Stealth III S540 video card
> Mitsumi CD-ROM
> Mitsumi CR-4804TE
> US Robotics 56K FAX EXT PnP external modem
> Asus motherboard
> Aladdin chipset
> --
> Bob
> Being flamed? Don't know why? Take the Flame Questionnaire(TM)
> today!
> Why do you think you are being flamed?
> [ ] You continued a long, stupid thread
> [ ] You started an off-topic thread
> [ ] You posted something totally uninteresting
> [ ] People don't like your tone of voice
> [ ] Other (describe)
> [X] None of the above
------------------------------
From: "Joel Barnett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Here is the response from Microsoft regarding Linux and Piracy:
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 14:43:00 -0800
"Adam Warner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Matthew Gardiner"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > From Microsoft Anti-Piracy Team <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date
> > Thursday, March 29, 2001 6:31 pm To Matthew Gardiner
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject Re: Piracy???? (KMM187946C0KM)
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> >
> > We suggest that you contact Linux.
> >
> > Microsoft Corporation
> > Worldwide Sales & Support Group
>
> LOL
>
> Great response from MS, Matthew. I hope you're attempting to have a
> conversation with your kernel right now.
>
> Let's be charitable: Maybe it was a typo, and the MS support person
> instead meant to write:
>
> We suggest that you contact Linus.
>
Or, perhaps the MS person realized the stupidity of the question and
intentionally gave a stupid answer.
> Regards,
> Adam
jbarntt
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Here is the response from Microsoft regarding Linux and Piracy:
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 10:58:16 +1200
Or perhaps the still have the same employment policy as they did 15 years
ago, and that is, "employing people with the same type of thinking and goals
as Bill Gates", and if that is true, the person who sent the email made two
short planks look like a computer.
Matthew Gardiner
Joel Barnett wrote:
> "Adam Warner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Matthew Gardiner"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > From Microsoft Anti-Piracy Team <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date
> > > Thursday, March 29, 2001 6:31 pm To Matthew Gardiner
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject Re: Piracy???? (KMM187946C0KM)
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > >
> > > We suggest that you contact Linux.
> > >
> > > Microsoft Corporation
> > > Worldwide Sales & Support Group
> >
> > LOL
> >
> > Great response from MS, Matthew. I hope you're attempting to have a
> > conversation with your kernel right now.
> >
> > Let's be charitable: Maybe it was a typo, and the MS support person
> > instead meant to write:
> >
> > We suggest that you contact Linus.
> >
>
> Or, perhaps the MS person realized the stupidity of the question and
> intentionally gave a stupid answer.
>
> > Regards,
> > Adam
>
> jbarntt
------------------------------
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