Linux-Advocacy Digest #291, Volume #33 Mon, 2 Apr 01 18:13:05 EDT
Contents:
Ultimate TV or Peeping Tom? (GreyCloud)
Re: German armed forces ban MS software <gloat!> ("Paul 'Z' EwandeŽ")
Re: (newbie, help me!!) How Do I install Ximan gnome on SuSE 7.1 (Chad Everett)
Re: Communism, Communist propagandists in the US...still..to this day.
(d'geezer@d'geezer.net)
Re: Ultimate TV or Peeping Tom? ("Mart van de Wege")
Re: German armed forces ban MS software <gloat!> (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Windows "speed" ("MH")
Re: AMD is to Intel as "What OS" is to Windows? ("2 + 2")
Re: Communism, Communist propagandists in the US...still..to this day. ("Dana")
Re: Windows "speed" (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Communism (T. Max Devlin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Ultimate TV or Peeping Tom?
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 15:11:48 -0700
An Ad in TV Guide:
==========================================================
Ultimate TV from Microsoft
Watch Carmen Electra take a shower
No, you're not dreaming.
Now UltimateTV service from Microsoft lets you do what you gotta do and
still watch what you wanna watch. So go ahead and pause live TV. Perfect
for a long, cold shower. Or instant replay it and savor Ms. Electra's
big, beautiful eyes over and over. Want to catch a game on one channel
while you watch Carmen on another? Only UltimateTV lets you watch and
record two channels at once with the touch of a button. And with web
access right on your TV, you can confess your love on Carmen's fan club
website, while you drool over her on TV.
and of course the phone no. .....<snip>
============================================================
Good grief!
------------------------------
From: "Paul 'Z' EwandeŽ" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: German armed forces ban MS software <gloat!>
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 23:39:53 +0200
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
<SNIP> A whole lot of stuff </SNIP>
> Thanks for your time. Hope it helps.
You're welcome. It was fun locking horns with you but alas, all things must
come to an end. Maybe we'll do so again another time, or not for that
matter. :)
> --
> T. Max Devlin
Paul 'Z' Ewande
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chad Everett)
Subject: Re: (newbie, help me!!) How Do I install Ximan gnome on SuSE 7.1
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 21:22:13 GMT
On Mon, 02 Apr 2001 16:21:42 GMT, Brad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>The install script says I have a unsupported version. Is there
>anyway to lie to the script? Thanks.
>
>
Make sure you have booted into a 2.2.xx kernel and then edit
/etc/SuSE-release and change all occurances of 7.1 to 7.0.
This fakes the ximian installer into proceeding with the GNOME
installation. I did this and am happily running Ximian GNOME
on SuSE 7.1 under 2.4.x kernel. Do not elect to use the GDM
manager though. Stick with KDM.
------------------------------
From: d'geezer@d'geezer.net
Crossposted-To:
misc.survivalism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.singles,alt.society.liberalism,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Communism, Communist propagandists in the US...still..to this day.
Reply-To: d'geezer@d'geezer.net
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 21:31:15 GMT
On Mon, 02 Apr 2001 14:00:00 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (silverback) wrote:
>On Mon, 02 Apr 2001 08:44:35 -0400, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>Scott Erb wrote:
>>>
>>> I couldn't believe the sudden torrent of fascist like threats and
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>>Spot the character assassination.
>>
>>
>>First of all, Fascism is a form of socialism. By now, it should be
>
>wrong clyde. Fascism is the polar opposite of socialism. Fascism has
>always been a top down revolution to protect the interest of the rich
>corporate owners. The fact that the fascist supporters are from the
>top tier of society is enough to dispense with yer silly nonsense.
Oh Yes, Hitler came from the ranks of the aristocracy, his father was just a local
minor government employee as a hobby. As was his mother of course.
I understand Mousellini was also from the aristocracy.
No dimbulb, fascism is socialism from the top down that is the only difference. I
preempts the wealth as a first order of business, controls, one way or another,
the capital goods of a country...the source for production of wealth, then runs
the entire operation with a promise that there will be law and order in the best
interests of the state....the state dim bulb, the state.
>
>>very very very clear that I am utterly opposed to all forms of socialism,
>>as that is merely a trendy word for government-mandated slavery.
>>
>>
>>
>>> bravado. Apparently the guy does not like being shown that he is wrong
>>> in his world view -- a view which seems based on his own whims, never
>>
>>No...what I don't like are closet-wannabe-dictators like you, who piss
>>on the Constitution, promote worker-enslaving taxation schemes, and then
>>want to parade around as if you are some sort of liberator.
>>
>
>sorry fools liberals support progressive taxation.
>
>>
>>
>>> supported or substantiated in any way. He did prove to me in this post
>>> that he isn't worth being taken seriously. It takes all kinds, I
>>> guess.
>>
>>Fortunately, the vast majority of those who keep and issue the automatic
>>weapons in this country agree with me.
>>
>>heheheheheh
>
>and we'll be coming for that illegal gun.
Yes. Of course you will. We are quite aware of that. Getting it is yet another
problem for you in your grand fascist socialism scheme. Please lead the
confiscation squad.
d'geezer
"Anyone who wants to get rid of all guns, thinks that the earth should
be ruled by large,strong men with swords and clubs. I think we
already tried that. It was called the Dark Ages."
Christopher Morton, Tue, 27 Mar 2001
------------------------------
From: "Mart van de Wege" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Ultimate TV or Peeping Tom?
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 23:27:02 +0200
In article
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> An Ad in TV Guide:
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------- Ultimate TV
> from Microsoft
>
> Watch Carmen Electra take a shower
>
> No, you're not dreaming.
>
> Now UltimateTV service from Microsoft lets you do what you gotta do and
> still watch what you wanna watch. So go ahead and pause live TV. Perfect
> for a long, cold shower. Or instant replay it and savor Ms. Electra's
> big, beautiful eyes over and over. Want to catch a game on one channel
> while you watch Carmen on another? Only UltimateTV lets you watch and
> record two channels at once with the touch of a button. And with web
> access right on your TV, you can confess your love on Carmen's fan club
> website, while you drool over her on TV.
>
> and of course the phone no. .....<snip>
> ------------------------------------------------------------ Good grief!
Reminds me of the fact that cable operator UPC had to delay it's rollout
of settop boxes TWICE down here in Europe. Guess who's writing the
software for these boxes?
--
Write in C, write in C,
Write in C, yeah, write in C.
Only wimps use BASIC, Write in C.
http://www.orca.bc.ca/spamalbum/
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: German armed forces ban MS software <gloat!>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 21:47:23 GMT
Said Paul 'Z' EwandeŽ in alt.destroy.microsoft on Mon, 2 Apr 2001
>"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
><SNIP> A whole lot of stuff </SNIP>
>
>> Thanks for your time. Hope it helps.
>
>You're welcome. It was fun locking horns with you but alas, all things must
>come to an end. Maybe we'll do so again another time, or not for that
>matter. :)
Perhaps. Just post to alt.destroy.microsoft, if you'd like to give it a
shot; I'm up for it.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
------------------------------
From: "MH" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows "speed"
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 17:54:34 -0400
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Said David Rheaume in alt.destroy.microsoft on Mon, 02 Apr 2001 04:59:07
> >Your sysadmin friends, eh? So that translates to, "Hi, I have no
> experience
> >with the OS, but I'll go ahead and trash it because that's the hip thing
to
> >do."
>
> Guffaw. Like there's anyone in IT that has had the joy of "no
> experience with" Windows. Ha!
>
> >And no, Redmond ITG would nor preconfigure the OS on a donated machine.
The
> >software and hardware would be donated, and then the library most likely
had
> >some high school kid install it.
>
> No, it was probably the OEM and an MCSE that nobody's heard from since
> they dropped the systems on the tables.
>
> >You obviously have no grasp of the OS's capabilities (or antitrust law,
for
> >that matter). Do me a favor - install the OS. Read a book. Check it
out
> >for yourself, and don't spout generic anti-MS crap. It showcases your
> >ignorance.
>
> Bwah-ha-ha-ha! "No grasp of anti-trust law." "Generic anti-MS crap."
> Ha!
>
> I especially liked the second one. It seems to me that when complaints
> about a product can be described as "generic", they can't then also
> qualify as "crap". This isn't the theories of computer science we're
> criticizing, just Microsoft's monopoly crapware.
I won't argue that some of it is indeed 'crapware', and I'm not a MS
apologist by any means. But I.E. 6 that's in Whistler Beta 2 is an Internet
experience that makes anything under Linux pale in comparison. I know. I'm
running it. --security issues aside (-:
------------------------------
From: "2 + 2" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: AMD is to Intel as "What OS" is to Windows?
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 17:58:54 -0400
Aaron R. Kulkis wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>Cat wrote:
>>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> I was considering the reasons for windows dominance of the OS market and
the huge problems of
>> getting developers for Linux, Mac etc. Linux is a solution to a different
problem that just
>> happens to have been successful in some desktop areas. It's a port of
Unix to a Intel box pure
>> and simple. The Mac OS developed before and simultaneously with windows
platform and so it
>> fundamentally different to it.
>> I was wondering if anyone has ever considered doing to the OS market
what AMD did to the
>> chip market. Why not engineer an OS from scratch with the objective of
being as close to the
>> windows platform as possible for application development? You could make
it open source and
>> free and include Java and other cross platform API in all distributions.
>
>Any implementation of the "Win32" [sic -- LOSE32] API is inherently
unstable
>due to poor design.
The Win16/Win32 framework started with C, added C++ and many other changes
over the years. The less talented developers have a greater problem with it.
Anyway, its successor is the .NET framework. Now .NET has important roots in
the language research communities, many of which touch on the open source
movement, so what you are suggesting might be technically possible.
Except you fail to realize that the .NET framework and its JIT compilers are
a platform that constitutes a Hardware Abstraction Layer ABOVE the OS which
is relegated to supporting hardware devices.
Like the Java VM and other execution engines, this provides a software layer
abstracted away from the OS.
This being the case, then the open source movement, already having an OS,
needs a framework and execution engine of its own.
My view is that Microsoft would be making big mistake by not porting .NET
framework to Linux.
Linux and the open source movement has a lot of talent and access to much of
the .NET language work since it was an effort that involved many
contributions, none of which surrendered intellectual property rights.
So what Linux needs is its own framework, not .NET, not Win32 by any means.
And its doubtful whether Linux developers in general would really be happy
with the Java platform either.
Unlike the Java community, the Linux community has complex opinions about
the Java platform. In short, the source of their computer knowledge is not
focused through Sun, to put it kindly, although many obviously share a Unix
academic orientation.
Java is not as strong in the language community as Unix is in OS community.
So, yes, the goal of competition from another OS or Linux in the desktop OS
market is an immensely important one to the industry.
2 + 2
>
>
>> It would certainly be a big investment but their would still be
enough money in the
>> coffers of companies like Sun and IBM to do it. Assuming that they had
the right business plan
>> from the start. Which is to make it free for the client side and low cost
and scalable for the
>> server side until you got a significant % of the client side market.
>> If I could run a free OS that allowed me to run virtually all of the
software that runs on
>> windows I would even think about paying for windows.
>
>That's why Sun invented Java.
>
>
>>
>> Cat
>>
>> http://www.ratrobot.com/sport/sport.htm NEW THIS MONTH Would you cheat in
a $100 million
>> dollar lottery if you knew they wouldn't catch you? This is the problem
with drugs in sport.
>> How do we solve it?
>> http://www.ratrobot.com/java/ratrobot_help.jar FREE APPLETS JARS
EDITORS CHOICE
>> www.ratrobot.com Articles that challenge your ideas about yourself and
the world you live in.
>>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.8 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com>
>>
>> iQA/AwUBOsgLxSh0Y2LcENUAEQLsDwCdEn/Pca8WCzYCB2YRb4hnriXTQn8AoOvv
>> jN6agekDtvHPNGnT3m+nIu2E
>> =TByJ
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
>--
>Aaron R. Kulkis
>Unix Systems Engineer
>DNRC Minister of all I survey
>ICQ # 3056642
>
>K: Truth in advertising:
> Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
> Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
> Special Interest Sierra Club,
> Anarchist Members of the ACLU
> Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
> The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
> Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
>
>
>J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
> The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
> also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
>
>I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
> challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
> between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
> Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
>
>H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
> premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
> you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
> you are lazy, stupid people"
>
>G: Knackos...you're a retard.
>
>
>F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
> adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
>
>E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
> her behavior improves.
>
>D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
> ...despite (C) above.
>
>C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
>
>B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
> method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
> direction that she doesn't like.
>
>A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: "Dana" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
misc.survivalism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.singles,alt.society.liberalism,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Communism, Communist propagandists in the US...still..to this day.
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 14:01:02 -0800
Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Dana wrote:
> >
> > Scott Erb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > >
> > > Dana wrote:
> > > >
> > > > No Erb, you are the one that is wrong. We are a constitutional
republic.
> > We
> > > > are not a liberal democracy, that form of socialism
> > >
> > > No, you're wrong.
> >
> > No erb, you are wrong. You fail to realize what the modern incarnation
of
> > the term liberal is. The modern liberal is not a classical liberal like
> > Locke, Hobbs. Modern liberals are socialists. That is why there is such
a
> > negative feeling towards the term liberal democracy. That is practiced
in
> > Europe, and it is socialism.
> >
> > Liberal Democracy means a Democratic Republic based
> > > on liberal principles.
> >
> > It is not based on liberal principles, it is based on socialism
> > It is not liberal in the sense of classical liberalism.
> >
> > Ideological liberalism is a belief in limited
> > > government and a claim that humans have the inherent right of life,
> > > liberty and property, based on the work of among others, John Locke.
> > > Liberalism is an ideological opponent of socialism.
> >
> > And a liberal democracy is socialism, just look at Europe.
> > >
> > > Classical liberalism saw a very, very limited government (Milton
> > > Friedman considers himself a classical liberal), "new" liberalism
> > > associated with developments in Britain and thinkers like John Stuart
> > > Mill argues that to have real liberty and equal opportunity the state
> > > must institute some kind of social welfare programs. Both are at base
> > > ideologically liberal, socialism is something else.
> >
> > When the state gets involved with social welfare programs, you have
> > socialism, which leads to fascism once the state gets involved in the
means
> > of production/controls industry.
> > >
> > > > is found in Europe in
> > > > countries like Germany. And our federalism is not Germany's
>federalism.
> > >
> > > Germany in some ways has a stronger federalism than ours,
> > Socialism is socialism.
> > their states
> > > choose who serves in their upper house, much like the US Senate was
> > > chosen before direct popular vote to the Senate was ratified.
> >
> > Which was a mistake.
> > >
> > > Dana, your ignorance of the basics here shows that perhaps you need to
> > > do some reading on this. I'll later on post a set of books you could
> > > start with; at this point, you are in over your head.
> >
> > No erb, it is you who is showing ignorance/dishonesty. You are a
socialist
> > and you have claimed the title liberal, but you are not liberal in the
> > fashion of Locke.
> >
> > We go over this with you a couple of times a year. And each time you are
> > proven wrong. And you wonder why so called instructers like you get no
> > respect. Well we all you teach is revision and some misguided facts, you
> > deserve no respect. All you need to do is be honest. A liberal democracy
is
> > socialism.
>
> I wonder how Scott Erb would feel if he gets his wish of an all-powerful
> government, and along the way, he gets carted off to some gulag....
It would be poetic justice.
It is not that Erb is ignorant, he is very dishonest. And to think he is
teaching this to his students.
>
>
> --
> Aaron R. Kulkis
> Unix Systems Engineer
> DNRC Minister of all I survey
> ICQ # 3056642
>
> K: Truth in advertising:
> Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
> Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
> Special Interest Sierra Club,
> Anarchist Members of the ACLU
> Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
> The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
> Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
>
>
> J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
> The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
> also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
>
> I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
> challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
> between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
> Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
>
> H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
> premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
> you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
> you are lazy, stupid people"
>
> G: Knackos...you're a retard.
>
>
> F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
> adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
>
> E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
> her behavior improves.
>
> D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
> ...despite (C) above.
>
> C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
>
> B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
> method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
> direction that she doesn't like.
>
> A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows "speed"
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 22:06:20 GMT
MH wrote:
>>
> I won't argue that some of it is indeed 'crapware', and I'm not a MS
> apologist by any means. But I.E. 6 that's in Whistler Beta 2 is an Internet
> experience that makes anything under Linux pale in comparison. I know. I'm
> running it. --security issues aside (-:
How so? What does it give you that IE 5 and Linux with, what Netscape,
don't?
Thanks.
Chris
--
[ Do Not Make Illegal Copies of This Message ]
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,misc.survivalism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.singles
Subject: Re: Communism
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 22:07:29 GMT
Said The Ghost In The Machine in alt.destroy.microsoft on Mon, 02 Apr
>In comp.os.linux.advocacy, T. Max Devlin
[...]
>>>(Side note: as I understand it, communism in its pure form is
>>>an economic system, always (at least, when done at the country level)
>>>implemented by some sort of authoritarian rule as it is not compatible
>>>with the "natural human state" of being greedy -- or, as a friend of
>>>mine once put it, "having enlightened self-interest",
>>>which sounds better and is more accurate.)
>>
>>Well, that's the problem. For a country to be "communist", "communism"
>>needs to be defined as a political system or it becomes a
>>self-conflicted concept. You can't run a country with capitalism,
>>regardless of how important capitalism is to running a country. Your
>>point is valid, as communism is often seen as a social philosophy
>>indicating an economic model (socialism), and whether a communist or
>>socialist country uses one or the other label is relatively meaningless.
>
>Agreed, from an operational standpoint. It'll be interesting to see
>how the Chinese experiment holds out (they're trying for the combination
>of an authoritarian government and a capitalist economy, apparently), but
>it's clear that communism and authoritarianism/socialism track very
>closely in actual implementations.
To be honest, I think that's misstating the case. It is more consistent
to say that representational democracy tracks capitalism very precisely,
both in theory and in practice. The link between communism, an inferior
political system to representational democracy, and socialism, likewise
in practice an inferior economic system in comparison to capitalism, is
simply a perception, and a mistaken perspective if taken
philosophically, I think.
If it weren't for the fact that I cannot condone "experimentation on
live human beings", I'd agree with you about the Chinese scenario.
>>But I was trying to illuminate, by simply pointing it out, that for
>>Aaron to berate both Marx, who was simply a philosopher, and the USSR,
>>simply because both were communist, is to indicate that certain thoughts
>>are not aloud to be thought. This seems to me to ironically mirror
>
>Or maybe not allowed to be expressed aloud. :-)
To support one is to require the other, regardless of which one comes
first. If Aaron's apparent position (I say that because I believe it
isn't really a coherent position to begin with, as he exhibits many of
the indications of being a paranoid schizophrenic) were merely an attack
on the principle of free speech, it might at least be possible to
communicate with him. As it is, he's launched a private war on all
concepts of reason.
>>Marx's own work, of course, and makes clear that Kulkis is about as
>>close to a fascist as you can get and still live a responsible life.
>>
>>I do think its just playing with fire giving him a gun, of course. But
>>only as a military person; as a private citizen, I'm afraid he should be
>>as free to own a firearm as any other person. Now isn't that a scary
>>idea?
>
>No more than some of the others I can think of, admittedly. If a
>country has to protect itself from its own citizenry, it will have
>some nasty problems.
Which devolves, I'm afraid, into the primordial ooze of philosophical
consideration: does have a majority of citizens still willing to kill
the rebels make such a government moral or just?
>I do not buy into the "let's get the guns off
>the street" arguments of HCI, although I'm not sure how to reduce
>the carnage at this time (ideally, the citizenry would shoot them
>dead, or threaten to, and they'd think twice about shooting their
>rivals -- of course, the gangsters might also shoot the citizenry,
>but then other citizenry might step in!).
What is "HCI"? Personally, I'm as moderately radical in my thinking on
gun control as I am in public education. Bizarrely, Aaron would agree
with my stance on firearms, but would put me in front of a firing squad
for my stance on public education (which is, incidentally, that it is
the only thing worthy of the description "education", all private
education being indoctrination, by definition.)
Though it certainly isn't a short-term strategy, I believe that the way
to prevent "gun violence" is to stop pretending that the issue is how
convenient it is to be violent. Almost all of the most shocking recent
incidents involved lengthy planning and preparation. Making guns less
convenient, or even all-together illegal as private property, wouldn't
have any effect, from the looks of things.
>It has already been noted elsewhere that Hitler disarmed
>the citizenry first. I think the US government hasn't quite gone
>that far, but it's possible we're being seduced into giving up
>a primary line of defense against a tyrannical organization.
>
>Paranoid? Perhaps. But "it can't happen here" can happen here.
The sentiment is certainly not paranoid; it is the basis of much of
America's wisdom, this idea of needing to be "ever vigilant". There's
no argument nearer and dearer to USAian's hearts than the "slippery
slope" argument.
The only time it becomes delusional, or an indication of paranoia or
paranoid schizophrenia, is when you believe that there is a
consciousness behind this "attempt" to "seduce" people. Its the very
forces of nature which inevitably cause government to oppress the
citizenry, and requires no evil mastermind. Whenever someone's
political discussion requires a non-abstract evil mastermind (or an evil
scapegoat), you know they're getting close to the edge.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
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