Linux-Advocacy Digest #278, Volume #35 Fri, 15 Jun 01 19:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: More microsoft innovation (macman)
Re: More micro$oft "customer service" (macman)
Re: More micro$oft "customer service" (macman)
Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed (GreyCloud)
Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed (GreyCloud)
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... ("Mart van de Wege")
Re: netscape 6.1 - anyone? (Richard Thrippleton)
Re: the world thinks there is only windows. yahoo sucks. (GreyCloud)
Re: MSnbc calls MS on MS's FUD campain! (Rex Ballard)
Re: the world thinks there is only windows. yahoo sucks. (Nigel Feltham)
Re: netscape 6.1 - anyone? (GreyCloud)
Re: the world thinks there is only windows. yahoo sucks. (Nigel Feltham)
Re: Linux wins again.... (GreyCloud)
Re: Linux Magic Filter Printing (GreyCloud)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: macman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: More microsoft innovation
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 22:48:33 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Dan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Macman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > No matter how you look at it (if you bother looking rationally), it is a
> > big deal.
> >
> > From a creative author's standpoint, it's very negative since Microsoft
> > is changing the content of the site. In fact, to the extent that the
> > links are one element of the author's intent, Microsoft is even changing
> > the intent of an author's site.
> >
> > From a practical standpoint, it's negative. Microsoft is now able to
> > steer ALL INTERNET USERS to their site -- regardless of what the viewer
> > wants.
> >
> > From a business standpoint, it's negative. It gives Microsoft the
> > ability to usurp the web sites of their competitors -- or even companies
> > they don't like much.
> >
> > From an advocacy standpoint, it's negative. Microsoft can effectively
> > deface the pages of anyone supporting alternatives to the MS monopoly.
> >
> > It has a huge number of negatives and few, if any positives.
>
> Relax, Joe. Have you even seen it? You sound *extremely* paranoid
> here.
I have seen it.
Now. Instead of ad hominem attacks, what part of my objection is
factually incorrect? NOTHING.
------------------------------
From: macman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: More micro$oft "customer service"
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 22:48:51 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Dan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Macman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Neither Google nor anonymizer changes the _content_ of pages. If they
> > start changing the content, then they should be stopped.
>
> Smart Tags do not change the *content* of pages, either. It just
> presents more navigation options to the individual user.
>
For a web page, hyperlinks are part of the content.
------------------------------
From: macman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: More micro$oft "customer service"
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 22:49:52 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Dan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Rick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> > Ayende Rahien wrote:
> > >
> > > "Macman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > > > You, as a user, have certain rights under the fair use doctrine.
> > > > Presumably, looking at the text only, or changing fonts, or similar
> > > > things would fall under fair use.
> > > >
> > > > Microsoft, as a third party, does not have the same rights. They do have
> > > > the rights to fair use, but what they're doing would almost certainly
> > > > not fall under that doctrine.
> > > >
> > > > Your analogy stinks.
> > >
> > > Don't I, as the user, have a right to *want* those smart tags?
> >
> > You do not have the right to change my intellectual property, unless I
> > grant you that right.
>
> Really? So what if turn off your graphics and sounds? Have I
> "changed your intellectual property"?
>
> These are all user-level options. I can do whatever I want to the
> display of *your* "intellectual property" on *my* computer, and there's
> not a damn thing you can do about it.
>
That's absolutely true -- and falls under the Fair Use Doctrine I
already described to you.
But for Microsoft to create a piece of software that automatically makes
changes to the content does not.
What part of that don't you understand?
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 15:54:25 -0700
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Ayende Rahien
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote
> on Fri, 15 Jun 2001 10:26:22 +0200
> <9gce0s$1o7$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >
> >"GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Your stock options are almost toilet paper as it is, seeing that from
> >> over a year ago MS stock lost 2/3 of its value.
> >
> >It didn't lose 2/3 of its value.
> >
> >And did you notice that it's stock price is *climbing* in a reccession?
> >
> >It used to be < 50$, not it's closer to 70$.
>
> It appears that Microsoft's high was around 120 -- after adjusting
> for stock splits (the last one being a 2:1 on March 29, 1999).
> The closing stock price as of today is $68.02. At most, this appears
> to be a loss of 44%, down from a loss of about 65% (it hit its low of
> 40.25 sometime before January 2001 and has increased 70% or so
> in value since).
>
> http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=MSFT&d=c&k=c1&a=v&p=s&t=6m&l=on&z=m&q=l
>
> --
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- anybody got a spare time machine?
> EAC code #191 0d:08h:30m actually running Linux.
> This space for rent.
Then was CNN correct in saying it lost 2/3 of its value?
--
V
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 15:55:43 -0700
Matthew Gardiner wrote:
>
> GreyCloud wrote:
>
> > "Matthew Gardiner (BOFH)" wrote:
> >
> >>GreyCloud wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Peter Köhlmann wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Chad Myers wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Who cares what you run in your home. We're talking about
> >>>>>real businesses making critical decisions that effect their
> >>>>>bottom line. It appears that they don't chose Linux.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>Yeah, yeah, Chad. By your definition IBM is no *real* business.
> >>>>
> >>>>Moron.
> >>>>
> >>>>Peter
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>Chads just pissed because he didn't sell off his MS stock in time last
> >>>year.
> >>>He must have lost at least 2/3 of its original value by now.
> >>>By spreading FUD he is hoping his stock will improve.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>I never invested in those crappy tech stocks, I have shares in Capital
> >>Properties, United Networks and Auckland Airport, where I earn 11%
> >>interest a year. Long term investments give the best return to those who
> >>are willing to wait.
> >>
> >>Matthew Gardiner
> >>
> >
> > 11%... is that all?? We were getting around 18-19% with utilities.
> >
> >
>
> 22% actually, I didn't look at the financial perspectus when posting the
> original post, hence, it was a rectum plucked figure before.
>
> Matthew Gardiner
Then that's pretty damn good returns! :-)
--
V
------------------------------
From: "Mart van de Wege" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance...
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 00:57:38 +0200
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
In article <3b2a2e20$0$94312$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Chad Myers"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> No, I'm talking about pictures of 12 year old girls (according to the
> article I read) being distributed to persons in America. The FBI has
> active investigations going on to kiddie porn rings with the material
> originating in Holland.
>
> I wasn't aware this wasn't common knowledge. I've heard reports of this
> in the major media on several occasions. I've seen Dateline specials on
> it. This is nothing new.
>
> -c
>
Several occasions? I know a kiddie porn ring got busted in Zandvoort,
about 2 years ago IIRC. But aside from that I haven't seen anything about
kiddie porn on the scale you are implying. Frankly if the FBI is
investigating and it is public knowledge in the US, then it would have
been blaring from the headlines over here.
There is however one other possibility: are we talking *physical*
pictures here (ie paper photographs and videotapes)? In that case you
might just be right that the Netherlands is a major distribution center
of kiddie porn, just as we are a major distribution center for legitimate
goods. Look at the map of Europe and you'll see why: All the major trade
from the countries along the Rhine and Meuse river flows through us. Why
do you think Rotterdam is NATO's designated port of entry on the European
continent? It is the largest (in volume) port in the world.
Simple statistics: more legit cargos -> more opportunity for smugglers ->
more kiddie porn.
So you might have a point, but it has unfortunately nothing to do with
our rather relaxed attitude towards sex (ie. you're 16 or up: it's
private and it's nobodies business what you do). In fact, the average
dutchman is about as enraged about child pornography as you are.
HTH
Mart
--
Playing for the high one, dancing with the devil,
Going with the flow, it's all the same to me,
Seven or Eleven, snake eyes watching you,
Double up or quit, double stake or split, The Ace Of Spades
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Richard Thrippleton)
Subject: Re: netscape 6.1 - anyone?
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 23:52:19 +0000
In article <9gdhd5$p6f$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
>Links? You hear about all sorts of software here, but this is new.
Really? OK, here goes advocacy. It's a text mode browser similar to
Lynx, but with some major, major advantages. GPM support for mouse operation
(maybe Lynx has this, not last time I checked though), frame rendering,
table support, generally better HTML layout, pseudo-threaded to allow
background downloads, multiple instances use pipes to share cookies and
other data. Once I got one-click image loading (click the image, loads
viewer based on mime-type) I didn't really need to look for a decent
graphical browser any more.
It may seem stone age to use text mode stuff, but I've yet to find a
better browser on any platform, with the exception of iCab for MacOS. In
short, very happy with it.
Richard
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: the world thinks there is only windows. yahoo sucks.
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 15:59:47 -0700
Todd wrote:
>
> "top@pp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > Lets all write to yahoo and complain. I am just had it with
> > sites like yahoo that only supports windows.
> >
> > click on this site and you'll get an error that it is only supported
> > on windoz.
> >
> > http://vision.yahoo.com/?id=1457763&aid=5016
> >
> > yahoo is as stupid as any business out there which only makes its
> > web pages to one platform.
>
> They are not stupid.
>
> They are smart.
>
> They tailor their business to 90% of the browsers out there.
>
> Ever heard of the 80-20 rule? A good rule to abide by.
>
> You linux users will never understand. <sigh>
>
> -Todd
>
> >
No... those are monopolistic tendencies in action we are viewing.
What about those that have vaxens or suns or sgis??
No... a standard has been broken and slanted towards a proprietary
browser that will run on two different proprietary machines.(Apple and
PCs)
The rest are excluded.
--
V
------------------------------
From: Rex Ballard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: MSnbc calls MS on MS's FUD campain!
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 23:01:24 GMT
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I wouldn't get too excited.
Linux Admin wrote:
> =
> MSnbc (remember what the MS stands for) shines a light on MS FUD!
> =
> http://www.msnbc.com/news/587140.asp?cp1=3D1
NBC still has some level of concern for credibility. Of course,
there was still some very clear bias:
Ironically, Microsoft's "McCarthyism" ploy was enough to get lots of
people
interested. Lets face it, with over 60% of the servers on the
Internet
running at least one piece of Open Source software (Apache), you might
want to know if "The commies are really taking over".
If course, when the corporate lawyers actually did the investigation,
of all 30 Open Source License agreements, they were delightfully
surprised.
Furthermore, when lawyers took a closer look at Microsoft's licenses,
Open Source looks even more attractive.
Of course MSNBC did do Microsoft a few favors:
One of them, in fact, has been Microsoft itself. The
company's Hotmail free e-mail service for years used the
FreeBSD operating system and the Apache Web server, both
leading open-source programs. After buying Hotmail in 1997,
Microsoft tried to replace FreeBSD with its own Windows
software. Hotmail insiders said the company found Windows
couldn't handle the heavy load, something Microsoft at the
time declined to discuss. Wednesday, Microsoft said that
since last summer, Hotmail has been running on both
Windows 2000 and the Solaris operating system from Sun
Microsystems Inc.
What they didn't' mention is that Microsoft does the "who cares" work,
providing a front-end to the Sun/mh/perl back-ends. The Unix and Open
Source
systems are doing all the dirty work while Windows get the "Glory" by
delivering the http server signature. Even this menial role had to
wait
for Windows 2000.
Brian Youmans, who handles copyright issues for the
Free Software Foundation, the Boston-based group that
developed the GPL, said violations of the license sometimes
occur, usually inadvertently, and his group usually works
quietly with the company to resolve the matters. =93We are not
interested in ruining companies by forcing them to reveal their
intellectual property,=94 he said. =93Microsoft is using scare
tactics.=94
I'm actually surprised this one slipped through. Keep in mind that
one of the things Microsoft is so upset about is that they have been
using GPL and Open Software without getting permission to "lock it
up",
and it is Microsoft who has the draconian license that expressly
forbids
such things as the publication of benchmark results for NT server
without
Microsoft's express written permission. It is Microsoft who revokes
licenses
for "reverse engineering" for such terrible actions as debugging a
call that
failed due to code deliberately planted to crash targeted software
(Stacker)
and hardware (Cyrix 686 chip) among others.
Microsoft=92s campaign has helped unify open-source
leaders who often spend much of their time arguing over
philosophical issues but who all signed a statement criticizing
Microsoft. Brian Behlendorf, who works with Apache, said
Microsoft is running the campaign because it views
open-source software as the main competition to its =93.Net=94
Internet initiative.
More importantly, the Open Source technology has established the
standards
used throughout the internet while Microsoft's proprietary
"enhancements"
seem to have created huge security holes and reliability problems.
-- =
Rex Ballard
It Architect
http://www.open4success.com
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------------------------------
From: Nigel Feltham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: the world thinks there is only windows. yahoo sucks.
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 00:16:52 -0400
>
> They aren't the only site that dishes out goofed up web pages. Some
> give you a blank screen and says its done.
>
Strangely, most of the sites I have found which display a blank screen in
either konqueror or mozilla work when viewed on Netscape 4.x on linux.
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: netscape 6.1 - anyone?
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 16:02:48 -0700
Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
> "Richard Thrippleton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > In article <9gce0q$1o7$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ayende Rahien wrote:
> > >
> > >"Terry Porter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >> On Thu, 14 Jun 2001 15:50:05 +0200, Ayende Rahien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > "Burkhard Wölfel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
> > >message
> > >> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >> >> Did anyone of you try out ns6.1 preview yet?
> > >> >>
> > >> >> I wonder if it is "advocable"...
> > >> >
> > >> > No, it isn't.
> > >> > If you want to advocate something, advoacte Mozilla.
> > >>
> > >> Yep, and Mozilla is fantastic these days!
> > >>
> > >> > Advocating NS is about as hopeless as advocating Win3.0 as a server
> > >platform
> > >>
> > >> Exactlyseing as Netscape is now ownedby AOL!
> > >
> > >You *are* aware that a large precentage of the work on Mozilla is done by
> > >paid AOL employee's, are you?
> > I certainly wasn't.... thanks for the info. This explains a hell of
> > a lot.... like the 60 second startup time, the expansion to fill all
> > available RAM.... *shudder*.
>
> I understand that for some (STUPID!) reason, they loaded the whole bloody
> JVM at *startup*.
> That is now being loaded at per need basis.
>
I know what you mean. I had NS6.0 installed for just one night and then
kicked it off.
It took too long to load... and by the time it loaded my goofy ISP link
shut down.
> The XUL desicion was a mistake as well, I believe. And the decision to focus
> on such a breadth of subjects also delay Mozilla terribly.
> It should've been "let's us get a good browser *first*, everything else
> later".
> If they wanted the other stuff as well, they should've taken it from the old
> code. But their first priority should've been to get a browser to the market
> ASAP.
> In the meantime, their market share declined rapidly. They couldn't react to
> changes in the market, and the only recourse left for them was non Win/Mac
> platforms.
>
> http://joel.editthispage.com/stories/storyReader$47
>
> > I converted to Links a few months ago, and have never looked back
> > since.
>
> Links? You hear about all sorts of software here, but this is new.
--
V
------------------------------
From: Nigel Feltham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: the world thinks there is only windows. yahoo sucks.
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 00:20:33 -0400
top@pp wrote:
>
> Lets all write to yahoo and complain. I am just had it with
> sites like yahoo that only supports windows.
>
> click on this site and you'll get an error that it is only supported
> on windoz.
>
> http://vision.yahoo.com/?id=1457763&aid=5016
>
> yahoo is as stupid as any business out there which only makes its
> web pages to one platform.
>
>
Out of curiosity, how do websites detect the OS they are being viewed on -
as the best Linux browsers are open-source it could be worth adding an
option to make the site think the user is running windows and this should
solve the problem?
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux wins again....
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 16:05:23 -0700
Todd wrote:
>
> "Linux Admin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Linux stops Solaris and the best the over priced W2K can do is come close
> > to a tie on one benchmark while falling far behind on another!
> >
> > http://www.sysadminmag.com/articles/2001/0107/0107a/0107a.htm
>
> Linux could be 100% faster than w2k, but I *still* wouldnt' switch.
>
> Ok,
>
> Linux could be 500% faster than w2k, and I still woudln't switch.
>
> Why?
>
> Because I can get my *work* done with w2k, and I can do my *gaming* with
> w2k, and with *zer0* crashes.
>
> Hell, I still can't even get my standard 3com card working with Linux.
>
> Sorry.
>
> W2k just wins because it has so much more built in functionality, more
> ease-of-use, tons of built in support for hardware, and just far easier to
> use overall.
>
> Linux is a *fine* server OS. But *nothing* more.
>
> -Todd
It is always better to diversify ones skills. Don't put all your eggs
into one basket.
Keep your options open and try out and learn other o/ses as well.
You'll be better off for it and opens new avenues of opportunity to you.
--
V
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux Magic Filter Printing
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 16:07:38 -0700
Terry Porter wrote:
>
> Hi all,I'm setting up my new Debian system,and fount the 'magicfilter'
> package,this makes print setup easy, and supports the following
> printers :-
>
> StylusColor-1520@1440dpi StylusColor-500@360dpi
> StylusColor-500@720dpi StylusColor-600@1440dpi StylusColor-600@360dpi
> StylusColor-600@720dpi StylusColor-800@1440dpi StylusColor-800@360dpi
> StylusColor-800@720dpi StylusColor-II-IIs@360dpi StylusColor-II@720dpi
> StylusColor-IIs@720dpi StylusColor-generic StylusColor@360dpi
> StylusColor@720dpi bj10e bj200 bj600 bj600_draft bj610 bj800 bj800_draft cps300
> cps400 cps600 cpsonly300 cpsonly400 cpsonly600 deskjet dj500 dj500c
> dj550c dj690c dj690c-best dj690c-low epson9 epson9c epsonlq epsonlqc
> ibmpro jetp3852 la50 la75 laserjet laserjetlo lbp8 lj250 ljet2p
> ljet2plo ljet3 ljet4 ljet4050 ljet4l ljet4m ljet4ml ljetplus
> ljetpluslo ln03 m8510 necp6 oki182 pj pjxl pjxl300 ps300 ps400 ps600
> psonly300 psonly400 psonly600 r4081 stylus800 tek4693 tek4696
>
> --
> Kind Regards from Terry
> My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux.
> Free Micro burner: http://jsno.downunder.net.au/terry/
> ** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
Looks like ghostscript to me.
Very much alike.
--
V
------------------------------
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