On 8/8/2013 9:36 PM, Christopher Wilke wrote:
    Having taken these keyboard classes, and speaking as someone with a
    doctoral degree in historical plucked instruments, (ya know, lute,
    theorbo, baroque guitar and all that jazz) I can say that the
    considerable keyboard requirements were practically useless in helping
    with things like continuo realization or improvisation on plucked
    instruments. The media are just too different. I think the pedagogical
    goal in requiring piano for all majors is primarily so that
    non-harmonic (i.e. single-line) instrumentalists and singers will have
    some practical exposure to harmony. For lutenists or guitarists, this
    is less important, since we are of course already a harmonic
    instrument.

Having taken some of them myself so many years ago (Classical Guitar major, their 1st one, at a large East Coast university) I have to agree. Keyboard was especially hard for me, due to my left hand feeling locked up into a permanently palm-up position from years of guitar study and a compromised wrist; having broken my left wrist practicing Junior High School American "Football", more hands than feet. More than two minutes at the piano keyboard was impossibly strained & painful. Could not keep that palm down long enough to learn to play anything useful. Even today, I cannot do wrist curls over about 15 lbs. without the wrist "clicking" out of joint. But my keyboard comfort has increased to where I can now do simple chords & scales when tuning my wife's harpsichord- tuning wrench in the right hand, playing the notes with the "wrong" hand- Finally!

I learned (some) figured bass by a more traditional method- thrown naked into the deep end of the pool without a life ring. A violin major friend of mine in the Senior class started his own ad hoc Baroque orchestra, and asked me to try and help out with continuo duties- gave me the bass parts to read from; Vivaldi, Bach, Corelli; solo concerti, suites, concerti grosso- Some parts had figures, some didn't- I had to learn bass clef, wander up into tenor cleff, and at least look at the viola & other parts- often on the fly- and with no "academic" training, despite what they were teaching at my school, a vastly inferior institution to the ones DT, CW, and many others have attended. No scornful laughter from the string players, we were all young musicians, all of us learning different music played in a different style than what any of us were used to.

Interesting- the high training standards; and their questionable results for the specialty plucked string players. I have found with my own students who are already "real" musicians on other instruments is that lutes are the great leveler. My top Renaissance lute student is a professional level 'cellist- but on the lute, her hands- both of them- started out as clumsy as anyone else'. What she can do is great left hand horizontal stretches and fast, secure position changes. Still has trouble with the B flat chord in 1st position- but at least she can read some music! Not so easy on the lute- even for my archlute student, who is a professional keyboard & harp player.

"I had to take two years of piano to pass the exam, along with all the other students, and that was to get just a basic BA in music. Hours of piano lab, hours of practice, and everyone had to do it, no exceptions."

"Does the audience know if we have completed the basic training, how could that 
be?"

-But I still wish I could have done the keyboard studies properly; just for the 
experience- practically useful or not. Maybe I could have at least gotten one 
of those whore house gigs.

Dan


    Historically, pluckers avoided the type of highly abstracted
    contrapuntal approach to keyboard musicianship, which places a heavy
    emphasis on strict part writing in a predetermined number of voices,
    that is so prevalent in piano classes today. Perhaps because
    maintaining a totally strict contrapuntal conceit is so technically
    difficult on plucked instruments, lute/theorbo/guitar players were
    compelled to be far more inventive in their theoretical thinking.
    Surviving tabs show that pluckers understood and used the fundamental
    bass theory many decades before Rameau popularized it. This certainly
    opens the door for more inventive, satisfying - and audible!!! -
    continuo playing for us today. (I wrote an article about this which
    hopefully will come out soon in the LSA Quarterly when they get around
    to publishing it.)

    Chris
    Dr. Christopher Wilke D.M.A.
    Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer
    www.christopherwilke.com
      __________________________________________________________________

    From: David Tayler <vidan...@sbcglobal.net>
    To: "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
    Sent: Thursday, August 8, 2013 7:57 PM
    Subject: [LUTE] Re: general public Lute awareness
      I think this is an interesting question, and I will risk posting an
      honest answer. The answer depends on who is "The General Public". I
      divide the groups as: the 200 countries of YouTube distribution,
      Academics, other lute players, people in the Early Music scene, and
      modern musicians, as these are the groups frequently mentioned here.
      First off, however, I must note that at a good conservatory or
    college
      offering a real music major, you are expected to play the piano, read
      figured bass and pass a score reading exam using multiple staves of
    an
      orchestra work and transposing clefs.
      I mention this because of the puzzling stories about people who can
      play the keyboard and transpose and so on. That is an entry level
      skill, and a requirement. I had to take two years of piano to pass
    the
      exam, along with all the other students, and that was to get just a
      basic BA in music. Hours of piano lab, hours of practice, and
    everyone
      had to do it, no exceptions. I had to take an even harder exam to be
      admitted for the MA, which included a test in Fugue writing and
      counterpoint. Basic training, basic training for just the BA.
    However,
      in many European systems, the requirements are more strict.
      So although I think it is cool that there are these stories, I think
      the very fact that we tell these stories sends the message to the
      General Public that, unfortunately, we didn't finish basic training.
      And what kind of a message is that? Most professional musicians on
    the
      violin, cello, piano, harpsichord, and so on, had to work to get
    these
      skills just to get into the Conservatory. They expect everyone to do
      these things fluently. This explains some of the "attitude" from
    modern
      players. Rightly or wrongly, they look at the basic training. And
    they
      had teachers who said, in a unified voice "no shortcuts."
      And that in no way means that the people in the lute stories are not
      good musicians, because they often are, but think for a moment if you
      played in any original, historical French baroque opera what you
    would
      have to do. You would have to read multiple clefs, including double
      figured (figures on both sides of the staff) baritone clef with the F
      on the middle line, and short score the other parts, none of which
    line
      up with anything familiar.
      Way harder than playing the piano. Most harpsichordists and organists
      who play opera can do this, most lute players cannot do this. Yes, it
      is harder on the lute. But the musical skills are the same and no
      harder.
      As far as the General Population of the Planet, the vast majority
    have
      no idea what a lute is, and lute players would be regarded as an
      historical oddity from movies and TV shows, e.g., cameo appearances
    of
      "Game of Thrones" or "House."  Followers of Sting would have a very
      hazy idea that it is the funny looking instrument from Sting's foray
      into Early Music, but not much more. Certainly the YouTube boom has
      marginally improved awareness, however, most of the YouTube videos
    are
      not intended to be recordings in the sense of a produced recording.
      There's no one playing the lute on YouTube who can even remotely
      approach the chops of say for example the 14 year old girl who plays
      the Vivaldi Four Seasons on the guitar. The GPOTP may not know much,
      but they know raw talent.
      [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIGfO2Dgc9Y
      As far as other lute players, lute players are highly regarded. This
      means we live in a bubble.
      As far as other Early Music musicians, sadly, but undeniably, lute
      players are regarded as the worst musicians. Bottom of the Barrel.
    That
      is, there is no other instrument that has a lower reputation, with
    the
      possible exception of the Krummhorn. The reason for this is
      complicated, but basically has to do with anecdotal stories that
      circulate about lute players in ensembles, basic sight reading,
    rhythm,
      score reading, ensemble skills and so on. The situation has changed
      slightly in the last few years, as more continuo players enter the
      pool. However, recorder players, cornetto, harpsichord, organ, oboe
    and
      viol players nowadays have advanced training, especially in notation
      and ornamentation, but also in ensemble playing and rhythmic
    training,
      that lute players just don't have. Their bar is higher.
      Other Early Music musicians make constant and disparaging jokes about
      the quality of the lute YouTube videos. They circulate them in groups
      as joke emails, especially where two continuo players are playing the
      same piece but playing different chords. Like major and minor at the
      same time. It is one of the most common comments I hear in the pub
      after an orchestra rehearsal. "Did you see this. OMG how could they
    not
      know?" What they are saying is not only did they play the mistake,
    but
      they are unaware that a mistake has been played. Of course, these
    same
      commentators are not making their own solo videos, but still, it is a
      litany.
      I think the videos are a great thing, and of course many of them are
      meant to be sharing, rather than comparing, but there is a PR
    downside.
      As far as modern players, when I play with a modern orchestra like
    the,
      the reception is normally warm and inviting. I don't get the reaction
    I
      got thirty years ago. Orchestra players often have worked with
      crossover conductors who are active in both worlds.
      As far as academia, most people in a university environment will have
      some idea of what a lute is, but not much more than "Game of
    Thrones".
      Lute players are smart, talented people. There's no reason that they
      can't have the same skill sets as the top musicians in the world,
    just
      as they did in the renaissance.
      dt
      --
    To get on or off this list see list information at
    [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

    --

References

    1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIGfO2Dgc9Y
    2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html




Reply via email to