Edward-
Thank you very much for the pics and articles- Now, of course, I can say
that I have seen the Pipa held and played horizontally! (I've always
been aware of the BIwa playing position) That's a relief, as I've never
been able to hold any sort of lute vertically with any degree of
comfort, much less been able to play it that way- despite Hoppy Smith &
Nigel North taking great pains to show me how- butt-strap and all.
I especially love that photo of Zhang Hongming- now that is a proper
lute player! Not that I plan to take up the Pipa anytime soon, but
stranger things have happened. Up until a year ago I would never have
dreamed that I would be studying Ming Dynasty Archery- but I am; with
the help of a Chinese-American friend who is translating into English a
comprehensive method written in the 15th century. Great cross-training
for lutenists- the string hand actually requires a "Thumb Inside"
shooting technique.
Dan
On 10/4/2013 5:07 AM, Edward C. Yong wrote:
Point of information - the original playing position of the pipa is horizontal,
as these paintings will show.
Tang dynasty: http://www.liufangmusic.net/images/pictures/tang_pipa.jpg
Tang dynasty, with plectrum:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/52/Pipa_player_dunhuang1.jpg
Song dynasty: http://www.houshow.com/school/education/_images/pipa.jpg
While it is true that the majority of pipa players now play their instruments
nearly at a vertical angle, those who play pipa according to the older schools
do not.
Nanguan (Fujian Tang music) pipa:
http://english.moc.gov.tw/article/index.php?sn=842
Nanguan pipa: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8172/8027971895_31b14d2df3_o.jpg
similarly, the Japanese biwa (though I am aware some styles hold it near
vertical): http://ottomen.com/justin/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/biwa_g_main.jpg
the Vietnamese tỳ bà appears to be held at a 45 degree angle...
Edward Chrysogonus Yong
edward.y...@gmail.com
On 4 Oct, 2013, at 12:12 AM, Dan Winheld <dwinh...@lmi.net> wrote:
For the upright, almost vertical position check out the Pipa player's
technique. I have NEVER seen them held horizontally- and those are not
excessively large lutes. Having played the viola da gamba quite seriously years
ago, I can attest to the great ease of long stretches on a vertically held
instrument. It's not uncommon for a typical (usually Renaissance) lute player
to get a tenor size viol- only to discover that it's uncomfortably small for
the vertical position for long, serious practice/playing.
Except for the larger/longer archlutes, holding comfort & security has never been
an issue for me (unlike Classical Guitar; scoliosis & tendonitis- thanks a lot,
Segovia!). A large suede guitar strap handles my small arciliuto quite handily, and I
now hold my guitars the way I hold my lutes- on the right thigh, legs crossed either
way, low seat, or sometimes RIGHT foot on a low footstool or guitar case end, the cat,
or whatever may be underfoot in stomping distance.
One of my new students spent weeks finding no comfortable lute position- until the day I had
her try a simple lute song (she was a singer) -she inhaled, straightened up somewhat on her
chair- channeling her "singing awareness position"- and the lute fell right into
place on her lap, comfortable and easy to hold & play. In that vein one might treat the
problem of holding lutes as an almost Yogic sort of challenge. Also perhaps contact Jacob
Herringman- he is a licensed Alexander Technique practitioner as well as a hell of a fine
lute player, but I don't know if he has any experience with the larger instruments.
But suction cups on lutes? SUCTION CUPS???
Lord have mercy! ("Excuse me, Herr Kapsperger, is that a toilet plunger in your hand
or are you just glad to play continuo for me?")
Dan
On 10/3/2013 12:57 AM, Martyn Hodgson wrote:
Dear Bill,
Most early representations show theorboes being held quite high up
and resting on the right thigh rather than between the legs as a modern
'classical' guitarist. Further, many early extant instruments have
fixing points for a cord/strap/ribbon: a button (or similar) at the end
of the body and one on the back of the first pegbox roughly where the
pegs are. Incidentally I can't see evidence of a practice of sitting on
the strap end.
By resting the instrument on the right thigh (similar to a flamenco
player's posture rather than a modern 'classical' guitarist- ie
inbetween the legs) and using such a strap I find all one needs is
something like a rough thick chamois leather placed on the thigh to
avoid any possibility of the instrument's lower side sliding forward.
No doubt, as has been suggested before (Bob Spencer I think), the heavy
coats of earlier players served much the same purpose.
It is also helpful to hold a theorbo more upright than a lute so that
the centre of gravity is closer in - it also helps a bit in playing
large left hand stretches. I've seen quite a few newcomers to the
theorbo struggle mightily with trying to play a theorbo in an almost
horizontal position as they play the lute and who soon find it much
easier when it is held more upright.
regards,
Martyn
From: William Samson <willsam...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: Lute List <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>; Daniel Shoskes
<kidneykut...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 2 October 2013, 22:42
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Thigh support for theorbo
Interesting question. Do we know how it was done back in the day?
Bill
Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
__________________________________________________________________
From: Daniel Shoskes <[1]kidneykut...@gmail.com>;
To: Lute List <[2]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>;
Subject: [LUTE] Thigh support for theorbo
Sent: Wed, Oct 2, 2013 9:35:50 PM
Dear Theorbistas: has anyone ever tried one of the classical guitar
rests/cushions/supports that many guitarists now use instead of a
footstool for their theorbo? Some have suction cups or clamps which I
wouldn't be thrilled to use on my instrument, but some, like the
Dynarette don't.
I'm still struggling to find an ergonomic position and the "sitting
on
the strap" options just don't fit my body.
Thanks
Danny
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