There is no point arguing about it, won't change anything.
Its based on audience (ie. The Devs)
- More designer oriented less programmy devs use a framework more geared to the
design.camp obviously.
- Programmers or Application developers use a framework that supports the work
rather then the UI. (These devs can sometimes make the UI just as nice if not
better, however some web coders are inept at design (like me!))
Its really, use the right tool for the right job. You wouldn't use a hammer to
tighten a screw would you?
The thing I object to is major players.. Adobe, Microsoft etc.. all bundle
jQuery with there apps with no room for a different framework thus making the
decision for us. .
Hell photoshop just started bundeling NodeJS.
Look at Adobe Edge Animate: jQuery.
Pretty much everything generated by a tool is jQuery with no room for other
players.
From: john.david.dal...@gmail.com<john.david.dal...@gmail.com>
To: <mootools-users@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013
Subject: Re: [Moo] jQuery venting !
> I don't see how defending frameworks with lower code quality is a better use
>of a "dead" mailing list
That's a wishy-washy claim :D
> I don't know how long you've been developing.
I won't bother filling you in.
> Moo is what it is. And like other dominant crapware like VB and (in many
>ways) PHP, jQuery is what it is.
Wow, the troll is strong with you. Enjoy the holidays.
- JDD
On Tue, Dec 24, 2013 at 3:52 PM, Sanford Whiteman <sa...@figureone.com> wrote:
I don't see how defending frameworks with lower code quality is a better use of
a "dead" mailing list. If you're in the jQuery camp, there's no need to come
here and flog Moo ; the unsubscribe instructions are easy to find. The
discussion, anyway, is about jQuery's rise well before its supposed
improvement, and you and I know that rise didn't happen because it was better,
it happened because web designers could get it (mostly) and it fit with their
hope that they wouldn't have to learn to -- eek --program.
If you haven't encountered the "old crowd" hanging out on otherwise idle
mailing lists yet, I don't know how long you've been developing. The same
happens with all kinds of software, and trolling a defense of a more successful
product isn't necessary. We get it.
P.S. There are enough outstanding PRs (are some of them yours?) that it's clear
that Moo needs to be forked, not updated. I myself use mini-frameworks and
functional programming more now. Moo is what it is. And like other dominant
crapware like VB and (in many ways) PHP, jQuery is what it is. You don't change
something's quality by touting its improvement: Rick Ross is a much better MC
than he used to be, and Miley can sing a little now, but they're still popular
crap.
From: John-David Dalton
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 16:15
To: mootools-users@googlegroups.com
Reply To: mootools-users@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Moo] jQuery venting !
> jQuery is BY FAR the crappiest Big Thing in circulation right now,
I think you've been away from it for a while. jQuery has great browser support
and activity. It's also pushing adoption of newer JS features by being modern
first in their 2.0 and allowing smaller builds w/ custom builds to boot.
I get that you have a problem with it's API, but its support, activity,
community involvement is top notch (they even have TC39 representation).
Instead of venting on jQuery to a dead mailing list you could try contributing
to MooTools or jQuery to make them better, maybe get MooTools to version bump
to support IE11 while you're at it.
- JDD
On Tue, Dec 24, 2013 at 2:40 PM, Sanford Whiteman <sa...@figureone.com> wrote:
> The decline of MooTools rests on the MooTools core devs and no one
> else.
Yep, it is/was principally an internal problem (including the
community as well) but I think you're whitewashing if you think
Microsoft didn't buttress jQuery *in part* because jQ couldn't
possibly compete design-wise with their OO product lines.
Every .NET dev I know accepts that jQuery must be "good enough" if
Microsoft chose it. Yet jQuery is "bad enough" that it keeps them from
being compelled by native JavaScript and JS developer-focused
frameworks; it keeps them thinking JS is basically what the world
thought it was in 1995. And that belief keeps them away from building
single-page clients against Node.JS, for example.
Think about Microsoft actively embracing PHP over Python. And I'm a
huge PHP guy, but I don't think that was _solely_ because PHP is the
dominant language of the web; it also protects their products, because
PHP will rarely be compelling to an experienced .NET dev (except maybe
for selected tiny projects).
Trust me, it's not "Microsoft's fault" that Moo is where it is, but
nothing happens in a vacuum. jQuery is BY FAR the crappiest Big Thing
in circulation right now, and just so happens to be embraced by the
once-leaders in ensuring that crappy Big Things spread far and wide.
Like the conspiracy freaks like to retort, "So you're a coincidence
theorist?" :]
-- Sandy
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