Re: the next wedge issue

[joanna bujes]

fair enough. sorry--

Joanna

andie nachgeborenen wrote:

Yes, and? Look, I was just saying that I didn't think
that the only reason that homosexuslity was a
lightning rod was that people thought that God hates
fags. I said taht in my experience many peoples eem to
find the thought disgusting. I did not offer a theory
as to why. I did not say that the hatred was
independent of social conditioning, and I didn't say
that some people who display socially approved
attitudes about male homosexuality don't engage in the
behavior. Any other straw men for me explain that I
also don't mean?
--- joanna bujes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Well, Christ!, Justin. Many college students still
find oral sex
viscerally disgusting...it takes a while. Besides,
one thing I can tell
you is that while men may publically gag at the idea
of having sex with
another man, when they get older, like say, after
40, they all start to
come clean about a variety of homosexual
experiences. It surprised me
too, but I have just been amazed at the number of
men who have confessed
something like this to me in the last five years.
So, you know, there's the publicly display
attitude...and then there's
what people actually do.
Joanna

andie nachgeborenen wrote:



I didn't say "hardwired and independent of social
conditioning," I said "visceral," meaning, "gut,";

I


wasn't speculating about its cause or origin. I


used


to see this when I was teaching. Ohio students


found


(male) homosexuality to be, eeww, yuck, gross,
dis-GUST-ing. How would you describe that except as
"visceral"? And their religious beliefs weren't
determinative,a lthough the Godly definitely were

more


likely to share this reaction. So I mean, just
independent of religious beliefs. As you knwo, I

don't


believe that it is even _coherent_ to talk about


any


sort of behaviore independently of social
conditioning. (I'll send you a paper on this that I
can'ts eem to get published . . . )jks
--- joanna bujes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:




But therea re lot of people who have a visceral
disgust about sexual behavior different from

theirs


that is independent of any religiosu beliefs.







"Visceral"? I'm skeptical. Aren't you the one who
argues against the
causative value of "inborn" anything.
Do you mean "visceral disgust" independent of
religious beliefs only? or
also independent of social conditioning?
Joanna




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