Kent Olsson schrieb:
Dear Izaak,
Kent, there was nothing in your complaint for me to even quote.
It was not a complaint! If you do not want to quote, why do you even
bother commenting? I would appreciate a polite discussion.
A polite discussion without facts? What's about you Kent?
You talk
about users off-list who have complained, but about what? You talk about
problems in the last 3-4 months, what were they?
I know about 8 developers given up the project for different reasons
related to what I am trying to improve. I also know of 9 existing users
not really fully satisfied the way the project has been managed so far.
I cite what they said...
1. not letting people in
2. not showing respect for their additions
3. attitude in discussion
4. misunderstandings not cleared out
5. difficult to contribute
6. do not feel welcome to contribute
7. long response times
Looks like your comments you have already repeated the last weeks. Let's
try to improve the situation. I am really interested in the persons who
think so. Where are they?
The question:
Is qooxdoo's development stunted by Sebastian's tight control?
Yes, definitively. That is the whole issue. If a project is a one-man
show the risk is extremely high that it will fail. Look at the last 2
weeks. He has been busy with other things. What happens if serious
things happen to him or his family? You never know what is behind the
next corner.
Yes, I think the same. There will be more developers like Til in the
future who help us to develop even the core stuff and bring it to the
next level. Not all things happen here are published in this detail to
the mailing list. Probably we could improve this in the future.
Nothing of this I hope will happen,
Thank you. ;)
but who is going to
take on his spirit? What about all the guys who have been working with
the library and spent a lot of hours working with it? You have to
realise that this is life and not a one-man show, even though you might
have an idealistic view. It might be as long as it works, but if it does
not....
Tell me who should be the second, the backup? Have you an idea who could
fulfill this role?
I've seen the community do some really good testing and bug reporting on
this mailing list. However I haven't seen any large contributions, and not
a single one that improves qooxdoo's core functionality.
You address the problem!
Exactly. Who wants to contribute if it is not taken seriously. You do
not think a SplitPane is worthwhile?
A splitpane if it is working correctly would be great. But it isn't
really bug-free. To detect this you just need to open the example and
play some seconds with it. What's about to fix your contributions first,
before grouch about we didn't published it more?
I think you should show more respect for the work of the contributing
people. What you say is that the contributors like me, Streifert, Ricks,
Björn and Vogel and all the others is not even worthwhile.
Your contributions are great, for a first contribution. But they need
definitely more work. If I see patches all 3 days which makes these
contributions better and better I will naturally though about a better
easier way for you to contribute to the project. But given the current
contribution level I don't see a need to give all these one-time
contributors more access like subversion write access.
Your statement does not stimulate people to contribute! Why not find a
positive attitude in this?
The only thing I am trying to do is to point at consolidation what has
been done and secure its future development, because first then it is
possible to use it professionally.
I will repeat myself: We and other developers, too, already use qooxdoo
in a professional environment. I don't really like this style of message!
It's also very
hard to match qooxdoo's quality of code, to the point where you must
almost invest a similar amount of energy as Sebastian and his company in
order for your contribution to be worth considering. What does this mean
for us users? We're getting a lot more of a 'professional' toolkit than we
paid for!! :)
I think personally you are wrong. Sebastians et al work has been
fantastic. Rome was not built on one day and not by one person. Do we
really want only passive users sitting down and waiting for the team of
Sebastian? I certainly do not want that, because the risk of using the
library will be too high. It is not a question about paying...sigh! It
is a question about doing something!
Yes, your are right. But to secure this development we need more core
developers who are repeatedly contribute to the project. I don't see who
could be this currently. Have you any suggestion?
Sebastian has been doing all he can to attract more developers, but
there's nothing he can do until they show up. Have patience in this
respect and the project will grow organically.
I do not agree on this point. If you do not stimulate people to
contribute, the work will never be done as fast. Even worse if you
reject people's efforts...
We need to reject people's efforts if they are not fulfill our level of
programming or design. Our stuff has also been created in multiple
levels and has undergone many rewrites. Just try to understand me. The
first contribution and the first piece of code is in general not enough.
You need to invest more time and try to code it in a more common way.
You must try to match the style of the already existing code. It's more
than just make it work for your current (commercial) project.
I don't think there is any contributed code which work this perfect
currently. By the way I think that the splitpane is the widget which is
a near as no other to fulfill these requirements. You just need to give
it the final touches.
If you're dissatisfied but you don't have time to do something as large as
rewriting qooxdoo's layout engine (snicker), qooxdoo would benefit most
from some advocacy. Write articles to AJAX development publications. Write
a wikipedia entry. Show off your qooxdoo projects.
I have. Did you?
Really. Where is the URL? Where is the wikipedia entry?
You seem to have strong opinions in this area. Again, I only try to
consolidate the efforts and investment in a better way as it has been
done so far.
Referring to your contributions, we are all welcome. Why don't you post
your code so we will see it at least in the contributed folder? It would
be very much appreciated, instead letting this only be a speech.
What qooxdoo needs is more quality developers, not looser QA.
What is this? No comment! It has no space in this discussion.
Just a think many other users think, too. Have you ever thought about
that there are other opinions out there?
Sebastian
Kent
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