Hej Andreas!
>Wait, you say at your business 21 developers work 100% of their time on
>such a qooxdoo app, and you call it a "simple bread and butter
>application"?
Come on Andreas! It is a small project from the world I come from. They are
working on the
implementation and conversion of a Java app into qooxdoo gui. It is bread and
butter, meaning
here is not a very high tech level or innovative level. Standard things which
have been done before.
No rocket science!
>Don't panic! Nobody is talking about making your app code publicly
>available. In most open source environments nobody would expect that, so
>why would you do?
You must be ironic here and it is not appreciated.
>I was talking about telling the community what large-scale qoxodoo app
>development you do. Seriously, you successfully create and maintain a
>1,200,000 LOC qooxdoo app with a team of 21 full-time people and you
>don't even disclose the name of the company or a description and/or
>screenshot of the app in the real-life examples? Being silent doesn't
>help qooxdoo at all.
We will tell when in due time if we find it appropriate. It is nothing you have
information about
to take a decision about. In this part we have never had the ambition to help
qooxdoo, but you
seem to have that.
>Well, fair enough. That is how open source should also be able to work
>(and that's why we make exactly that possible by choosing 2 liberal,
>approved licenses (LGPL/EPL), and not GPL).
It is interpreted as irony and is not appreciated. Small sticky comments never
grow in a good way.
>You actually don't seem to care about supporting and promoting qooxdoo
>by telling the world about your success story? Instead you demand more
>"openness" of qooxdoo? To whom should this project (core team, 1&1,
>contributors, community) be more open? You don't give anyone a clue of
>who you are.
This again is another insinuation which shows the mindset. It is not
appreciated at all.
I don't think you have read our previous proposal about adding dedicated labour
resources to the project.
We do not claim that we have a success story. We only try to do what we do the
best way we can.
1&1 has chosen to go open source. We have not and we do not need to reveal
anything we don't want to.
If you don't like that, it is your problem.
When it comes to qooxdo: We have NEVER demanded that qooxdoo should be more
open. We have SUGGESTED
qooxdoo to become more open. There is a big difference here. Our suggestion is
that it becomes more open
to the community, cause then the real power of the community can be used and
not only as bug finders as
of today.
>Perfect. If 1&1 would have that very mind set, qooxdoo as it is simply
>wouldn't exist. Instead, the company and the core team puts a lot of
>effort into providing an enterprise-level framework. Totally for free to
>anyone. To me that is open source spirit.
Come on! This does not work on me. All have reasons for what they are doing.
Don't you use qooxdoo
in your products and homepage? You do and as long as you do it is not total
generosity as you try
it to become. But is is ok for us. But don't claim that it is charity...
What you provide is in almost all ways something 1&1 wants. ELse I am sure that
1&1 would stop
financing the project. It is also fine to us, but don't claim anything else.
>That's it? Ok, so you simply are a consumer of qooxdoo, right?
As 1&1 and all other here too. Some people contribute more than others, that is
a community. And by
lowering the thresholds of contribution to the core the community will become
more vivid.
>Not the future will tell, you would have to tell.
No, future of qooxdoo will tell and the directions 1&1 wants to see.
>I'm sure also just "a few things" out of your codebase would be
>appreciated by the qooxdoo community. I don't see any uncertainty about
>the "policies of openness". There are new contributions made to qooxdoo
>every week. Why wouldn't you be able to contribute?
Most is bread and butter and not useful to others in parts, but, yes, we have
parts which might be interesting
to others, maybe... What you see is not the base of our decisions. You really
have to understand that,
as you don't have the information we have.
>I suggest you become a contributor: you sign the regular license
>agreements, we then set you up with full SVN commit rights to
>qooxdoo-contrib, and then you can start right away. It's all in the
>docs, maybe you may want to reread the following:
>http://qooxdoo.org/contrib
>http://qooxdoo.org/documentation/general/faq
>http://qooxdoo.org/documentation/general/committers_guide
>If there is anything unclear, please let me know. Looking forward in you
>becoming an active part of the qooxdoo ecosystem.
Andreas, we have seen and read that. When we have taken the decision to
whatever it is and we feel that
the policies are more open, then we would gladly be contributing with pure
code. As it is not, it
is not clear.
We would appreciate that you lower your guard, become less confrontational and
try to convince the
community instead that you work along it rather than against it on new ideas
coming from it. Today, it is
to me very much of protectionism.
By the way, we have already contributed a little, only little, but have to
start somewhere, to the community. Maybe you have not noticed that
as you have been away if I understood you correctly.
Our general approach is to give back from where we have taken when it comes to
open source.
Stefan
Andreas
--
Andreas Ecker
Project Lead
http://qooxdoo.org
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