Folks: Just a quick plug from the list custodian for maximum
accuracy. If you want to cite a statistic, please check it and cite
the source (plus see whether the big picture is more complex than you
describe). For instance, a quick visit to the Bureau of Justice
Statistics site
(http://bjsdata.ojp.usdoj.gov/dataonline/Search/Crime/State/StatebyState.cfm)
reveals that the crime rate as reported to the police rose from
160.9/100,000 in 1960 to 473.5/100,000 in 2006, a 200% increase (or a
tripling) -- bad enough, but not 560%. (I realize that not all crimes
are reported to the police, and the reporting rate changes over time,
but I don't think the NCVS data goes back to the 1960; if you have
better statistics, please let me know.)
What's more, the current violent crime rate is pretty much at the
1974 level, and there was in fact a sharp decline from 1992 to 2003 --
not, I take it, because the nation or the educational system has
somehow gotten less "atheistic." Now I'm perfectly happy to
acknowledge that various forms of social pathology have increased
since 1960 (while some have declined); and it's possible, though in my
view unproven, that this has something to do with the decline of
religion in public education.
But I'd like to keep discussions on the list as accurate as
possible, and a 560% increase is not the same as a 200% increase or
even a 300% level; and a 1960-now comparison doesn't make such sense
if the current numbers are at the 1974 level. So please let's check
any statistics we mention, and provide citations when possible. Many
thanks,
Eugene Volokh
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Ed Darrell
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 22, 2008 1:52 PM
*To:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Law & Religion issues for Law Academics
*Subject:* RE: Bible class rules set for Texas schools - Faith-
msnbc.com
Yet leading cultural indicators show that since 1960 in America,
violent crime has increased by 560 percent, illegitimate birth
rates have increased more than 400 percent, teen suicide is up
over 200 percent, the divorce rate has more than doubled, and the
percentage of families headed by a single parent has more than
tripled.
It seems to me, thanks to courts and judges that enforce state
atheism and Ed's social experiment upon our families and children,
by taking Bibles and prayer OUT of public schools, that...
And that's with increased Bible instruction that violates the
law. Ed Brayton is right to worry -- looks like more of the same,
maybe at an increased rate.
Why not study what it really says, study the real literature
components (as with every AP English course), the real effects on
history (as with every AP U.S. History and AP World History
course)? Tougher academics can help -- Sunday school in the
public schools is, by Chaplian Klingenschmitt's tally, a grotesque
failure, doing the opposite of what it is intended.
More seriously, pay very careful attention to Mark Chancey's
comments. He's a very distinguished, and faithful, Bible
scholar. What the Texas State School Board is working to
implement is contrary to most Christian faiths, let alone the
Constitution. Incompetence, weak academics, bad religion -- it's
a bad brew. When the state board ignores the state's leading
Bible scholars, the state's teachers and teacher organizations,
and even the sponsor of the Bill, there's evil afoot.
And when we try to increase the AP offerings, which feature
increased study of both Christianity and the Bible, these same
people complain.
Something's rotten in Texas. There's prayer in the schools, but
sadly, that's all the students have. No wonder crime, illicit sex
are up, and academic achievement is down. The kids are following
the State School Board's examples, ignoring all authority, making
their own, unanchored moral decisions, ignoring the best
information, etc.
By the way, I don't think the divorce rate has doubled. I think
it's dropping, in fact. Anybody got a current statistic?
Ed Darrell
Working in Dallas to get the curriculum planned out for 2008-2009,
no thanks to the State School Board
*/Gordon James Klingenschmitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote:
Ed writes about teaching about the Bible (as an optional
elective) in public schools, "the result is going to be very
ugly and very expensive."
Yet leading cultural indicators show that since 1960 in
America, violent crime has increased by 560 percent,
illegitimate birth rates have increased more than 400 percent,
teen suicide is up over 200 percent, the divorce rate has more
than doubled, and the percentage of families headed by a
single parent has more than tripled.
It seems to me, thanks to courts and judges that enforce state
atheism and Ed's social experiment upon our families and
children, by taking Bibles and prayer OUT of public schools,
that...
"the result has already been very ugly and very expensive."
In Jesus name,
Chaplain Gordon James Klingenschmitt
*/Charles Haynes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote:
I agree that much more guidance is needed (along the lines
suggested in the consensus guidelines we issued in 2000 --
"The Bible and Public Schools: A First Amendment Guide"
http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/about.aspx?id=6261.
What puzzles me, however, is why the State Board fails to
mention the requirements for training as outlined in
Section 21.549 of the Texas "Bible Bill." Perhaps that is
the next step... but there is no mention of it in the the
board's decision this week.
If the training requirements mandated by the bill are
followed, then many of the problems might be avoided...
But with groups out there pushing unconstitutional Bible
materials (such as those at issue in the recently-settled
lawsuit in Odessa) it will be difficult to monitor what is
going on across the state. Charles Haynes
21.459. BIBLE COURSE TRAINING. (a) The commissioner
shall develop and make available training materials and other
teacher training resources for a school district to use in
assisting teachers of elective Bible courses in developing:
(1) expertise in the appropriate Bible course
curriculum;
(2) understanding of applicable supreme court rulings
and current constitutional law regarding how Bible courses
are to
be taught in public schools objectively as a part of a
secular
program of education;
(3) understanding of how to present the Bible in an
objective, academic manner that neither promotes nor
disparages
religion, nor is taught from a particular sectarian point
of view;
(4) proficiency in instructional approaches that
present course material in a manner that respects all
faiths and
religious traditions, while favoring none; and
(5) expertise in how to avoid devotional content or
proselytizing in the classroom.
(b) The commissioner shall develop materials and resources
under this section in consultation with appropriate
faculty members
at institutions of higher education.
(c) The commissioner shall make the training materials and
other teacher training resources required under Subsection
(a)
available to Bible course teachers through access to
in-service
training.
(d) The commissioner shall use funds appropriated for the
purpose to administer this section.
Charles Haynes
The Freedom Forum First Amendment Center
555 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20001
202/292-6293 - office
703/683-1924 home office
________________________________
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Ed
Brayton
Sent: Tue 7/22/2008 1:56 AM
To: 'Law & Religion issues for Law Academics'
Subject: RE: Bible class rules set for Texas schools -
Faith- msnbc.com
Having seen some of the material already at use in many
Bible courses in
Texas, I can only say that the State board of education is
being incredibly
irresponsible in not spelling out exactly what can and
can't be taught in
such classes. Local school districts are inevitably going
to teach this
course in constitutionally dubious ways without such
guidance. Terri Leo
claims that providing such guidelines might lead to a
lawsuit; not providing
them is going to lead to many such suits - and sooner
rather than later.
They are doing the same thing the Louisiana legislature is
doing with the
recent "academic freedom" legislation, inviting local
schools into a "Dover
trap." The result is going to be very ugly and very expensive.
Ed Brayton
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Gibbens, Daniel G.
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 5:20 PM
To: 'Law & Religion issues for Law Academics'
Subject: RE: Bible class rules set for Texas schools -
Faith- msnbc.com
Justice Brennan's well-known statement, concurring in
Schempp, 374 US at
300: "teaching about the Bible" "in classes in literature
or history" is
permissible. As literature, surely teaching about the
Bible is different
from other literature items, distinctively involving the
necessity of
treating these issues:
The fact that some people believe it (or some of it) is
"the word of God" --
others believe that it is essential to understanding their
religion --
others believe it is interesting literature but otherwise
irrelevant -- and
thinking internationally, it is one several books
presenting similar issues,
e.g., the Koran.
Arguably, if teachers are not so advised/trained, there
are indeed critical
church-state issues.
Dan
Daniel G. Gibbens
Regents' Professor of Law Emeritus
University of Oklahoma
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Joel Sogol
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 3:41 AM
To: Religionlaw
Subject: Bible class rules set for Texas schools - Faith-
msnbc.com
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25742567/
Joel Sogol
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_______________________________________________
To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password,
see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw
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to others.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
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