No question. They can be helped just as believers might not be! But that is separate from whether, as a legal matter, a privilege attaches.
Marci A. Hamilton Paul R. Verkuil Chair in Public Law Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law Yeshiva University 55 Fifth Avenue New York, NY 10003 (212) 790-0215 http://sol-reform.com -----Original Message----- From: Steven Jamar <stevenja...@gmail.com> To: Law Religion & Law List <religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu> Sent: Thu, Dec 5, 2013 10:09 pm Subject: Re: The clergy-penitent privilege and burdens on third parties Sandy and Marci, I agree my conversations were not and should not have been privileged. But it is not the case that non-believers cannot be helped by priests either in a priest/pentitent setting or less formally. Steve -- Prof. Steven D. Jamar vox: 202-806-8017 Director of International Programs, Institute for Intellectual Property and Social Justice http://iipsj.org Howard University School of Law fax: 202-806-8567 http://iipsj.com/SDJ/ “There are no wrong notes in jazz: only notes in the wrong places.” Miles Davis On Dec 5, 2013, at 5:44 PM, Volokh, Eugene <vol...@law.ucla.edu> wrote: I’m sure there are some such situations, perhaps even quite a few. But I imagine there are quite a few situations where the priest would quite rightly not give me the advice that works for me given my philosophical worldview. The benefit of the clergy-penitent privilege to the religious is that they can generally get such advice, tailored to the particular religious belief system they follow. The irreligious, I think, don’t have that benefit, though they might get some second-best option for those situations where their worldview overlaps with a clergyman’s. Eugene From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu [mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf OfSisk, Gregory C. Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 2:31 PM To: 'Law & Religion issues for Law Academics' Subject: RE: The clergy-penitent privilege and burdens on third parties Actually, I think non-Catholics mostly would be pleasantly surprised, both on the receptivity of the priest-confessor and the wisdom of the response. To be sure, there are some misdeeds that are shared in confession that are understood to be such solely from the perspective of the Catholic believer (e.g., failed to attend mass, took the Lord’s name in vain, etc.), but most of what is shared with a priest are the kinds of faults to which all of us are prone and which all (or nearly all) of us regard as faults. And, following the confession, a good priest (which is to say, most priests) responds both in religious terms by pronouncing absolution and reconciliation with God, but also speaking about reconciliation with one’s neighbors and future personal growth. Indeed, in my own experience – and I do not go to confession nearly as often as I should (one more thing to confess, I guess) – is that the priest usually engages me in a common-sense and real-world dialogue about why I have fallen short, what are the obstacles in my path, and what steps I should take to overcome those obstacles. Penance may include prayer (the traditional, “say, ten ‘Our Father’s) but more and more often will include steps to compensate for harm to others, efforts to assist others in a similar situation, charitable activities, etc. Gregory Sisk Laghi Distinguished Chair in Law University of St. Thomas School of Law (Minnesota) MSL 400, 1000 LaSalle Avenue Minneapolis, MN 55403-2005 651-962-4923 gcs...@stthomas.edu http://personal.stthomas.edu/GCSISK/sisk.html Publications: http://ssrn.com/author=44545 From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu [mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf OfVolokh, Eugene Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 4:17 PM To: Law & Religion issues for Law Academics Subject: RE: The clergy-penitent privilege and burdens on third parties My sense is that I (as someone who is irreligious) would get relatively little solace or even wise counsel from speaking to an average Catholic priest about my troubles and misdeeds, at least unless I was at least contemplating converting to Catholicism. Unsurprisingly, the priest would respond in a way that fits well the beliefs of Catholics, but not my own. (There might be some priests who are inclined to speak to the secular in secular philosophical terms, but I assume they aren’t the norm.) Religious people, then, have the ability to speak confidentially to those moral advisors whose belief systems they share. Secular people do not. Eugene From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu [mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf OfPaul Horwitz Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 9:33 AM To: Law & Religion issues for Law Academics Subject: Re: The clergy-penitent privilege and burdens on third parties Is that accurate? It may vary, but I thought the privilege could be claimed for any confidential communication made to a clergy member in his/her professional capacity as a spiritual advisor. The person seeking that counsel need not necessarily be a co-communicant. I don't think this is just hair-splitting. It's not analogous to a statement that men as well as women can seek medical care for pregnancy. _______________________________________________ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others. _______________________________________________ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
_______________________________________________ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
