Re: Missing TBUDL messages.
Hi Christopher, this announcement from Marck of today should make you happy. ;-) We have now added a new dimension to TBUDL and TBBETA that will, hopefully, add to its' usefulness. The TBUDL and TBBETA discussion lists are now being archived in a public archive resource at [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] We have also provided a simplified alias for each address and convenient shortcuts to the archive in the list traffic footer text. On Thursday, September 23, 1999, 4:19:20 AM, Christopher J. Trybowski wrote: CJT Several days ago I have been accidentally unsubscribed from TBUDL (I CJT dunno why, didn't send any unsub request). Could someone send me CJT messages from 17,18,19 and 20 September? Thanks. -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 Beta/4 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Anti-spam filters (was:Re[5]: List Administration Note)
Hallo Marck, On Friday, September 24, 1999, 1:30:53 AM, Marck D. Pearlstone wrote: TF The only spam filter I could think of is a kill filter for TF messages addressed to [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'd appreciate some tips. MDP There was a posting to the old list from Leif Gregory which detailed a MDP 'Hard Core' solution to spam handling. MDP .. and here is the content of that missive (a bit big, but worth it). [...] That was quite some idea. Thanks. Now, how do you actually set the filter to identify spam, i.e. make TB tell it apart from legitimate mail? -- Cheers, Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 Beta/4 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 using a Celeron-MMX 366 Mhz, 128MB RAM -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: Anti-spam filters (was:Re[5]: List Administration Note)
Hallo Steve, On Sunday, September 26, 1999, 2:35:13 PM, Steve Lamb wrote: I wish to hear how you'd deal with his peculiar situation of having to deal with spammers who seem to stupidly believe in quality and not quantity. SL I just press the delete key because any filtering would invariably cause SL false-positives and a loss of mail. Thank you! Now we have the solution to this problem and can end the thread. -- Cheers, Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 Beta/4 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 using an Intel Celeron 366 Mhz, 128MB RAM -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: Quote prefixing rehash
Hi Ali,
on Tuesday, September 28, 1999, 6:39:07 PM, Ali Martin wrote:
Two different things, Allie: your earlier proposal was that the quotes
should show the original sender's initial's; what you describe Agent
is doing, is giving you the option to choose a fixed set of characters
as a quote mark, regardless of who the sender is. I don't use Agent;
kindly correct me if I'm mistaken.
AM My original proposal was that if one uses initials in his/her quote
AM prefixes, TB! should change the quote prefix used in 'quote as text'
AM option to the initialed type especially when quoting text from the
AM message being replied to.
Yes, this is what I understood. What you say Agent is doing, is
something else.
The difference is that Agent uses a fixed set of characters (be it
"quote:" or whatever), whilst you want TB to use an intelligent form.
You want TB to know where the quote came from, i.e. who was the sender
of the email this is quoted from, rather than just having another
string as a quote mark. (I am talking about the clipboard quoting
only, not about the %quote macro).
AM Enable initialed quote prefixing and hit reply to this message. The
AM quote prefixing is fine.
I'm following you.
AM Now, another way to reply to my message would be to remove the %Quotes
AM template macro and manually copy/paste what you need from my message. If
AM you do it this way, initialed quote prefixes are not generated. I would
AM have expected that the initialed quote prefixes would have been
AM generated either way. This is an understandable situation because I
AM don't know how TB! would be able to differentiate clipboard items taken
AM from TB! mail as opposed to a remote file, so it would be best to use
the default "" prefix.
When you hit "reply" and have the %quote macro in your template,
something very different happens from copy/pasting via the clipboard.
As far as I know, the Windows clipboard does not store the additional
info ("where did this quote come from?"). Someone correct me if I'm
mistaken. However, to tell the clipboard copy/paste function to add a
user-defined character string in front of every line, instead of the
standard one, sounds much easier to me than to re-write the whole
function.
The "reply" function will be a TB specific module anyway, as opposed
to a Windows function available to all Windows programmers. Thus, the
wheel was not re-invented.
AM Some users actually happy the way things are but in looking at Agent, I
AM see a very workable solution. Agent has, not only a 'paste as quote'
AM option which pastes text with the default quote prefix, but also a
AM 'paste as quote custom.." option which allows you to define whatever
AM quote prefix you like.
Does it allow you to use variables, like "initials of the sender of
the origianal post", or does it allow you to user-define a fixed string
of characters to replace the "greater than"? If it allow you to use
variables that are sensitive to where this quote was copied/pasted
from, then I'm wrong.
--
Best regards,
Thomas.
Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 Beta/4
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998
on a Pentium II/350 MHz.
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Re[2]: Quote prefixing rehash
Hi Steve, on Tuesday, September 28, 1999, 11:34:58 PM, Steve Lamb wrote: And yes, I think it would be nice to be able to change the quote mark from the standard "greater than" to any character or string you like. SL This would be bad since it would break many other clients. TB, for SL example, uses that character as a signal to color the quote line differently. SL Other applications to the same thing. TB also knows that lines that have in SL the first few characters are quotes and will wrap them correctly. Other SL applications do this as well. Allowing the user to choose a quote character SL willy-nilly breaks that de-facto standard across the board. I wasn't aware of the de-facto standard, but now that you mention it...g - there is actually nothing wrong with the "". -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 Beta/4 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[10]: Orange folders color
Hallo Claude, On Friday, October 01, 1999, 9:03:27 PM, Claude wrote: C But I have *many* folders in which I get non urgent (the most) and C urgent (the less) posts. I can't make a formal rule to sort them out, C as the same sender may send a post *I* think urgent or an other *I* C think it may wait a bit. So I must see the subject to chose it needs C to by read or replied in a hurry, or not. C The only thing I wish is, when I've seen these posts, having them C marked "seen" :))) C ... and the folder becoming orange until it gets some new post(s) ;-) While I see your problem, I am still against using 256 colours. However, I am in favour of a "seen" flag. How about this: When you focus a message in the message list and you don't read through it (either by double-clicking on it or using the space-bar at least once), it will not be "new" any more, but it will also not have been "read", thus it has been "seen". Another small icon then appears, like the "parked" thing, but with an "S" instead of a "P" (and in orange colour if you like ;-)). This can be toggled on and off like the "parked" icon. -- Cheers, Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 Beta/4 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 using an Intel Celeron 366 Mhz, 128MB RAM -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Keep messages in the base
Hi TBUDL, I have a question: When I check Fodler/Properties/"Keep messages in the base for 60 days", what happens after 60 days if I *don't* check "upon exit - remove old messages". Where do the old messages go if they are not being removed? - Just curious. ;-) -- Best regards, Thomas Message created with The Bat! 1.36 Beta/9 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: Quotingproblem
Hallo Werner,
On Monday, October 04, 1999, 5:13:40 PM, Werner Arts wrote:
TF This TB does not know whether anything is a name or another string of
TF characters, it will assume that everything in front of a "" is
TF suposed to be there, and the quote only starts after this character.
WA In this case the additional "" would be wrong.
[snip]
I'm leaving the above two lines in to make my point.
WA Look at the above Text. This is really confusing. None is able to
WA decide, *who* said *what*.
In the beginning of this thread, you had your reply template set on
"initials". And it was very easy to see who said what, that's the
reason for the initials.
Later you changed to "greater than only" (which is the standard in a
lot of other mail programmes) and that's why it is difficult to see
who said what. And that's why I like The Bat!.
I cannot come up with another idea, though.
WA The same quoting mark at the beginning of *each* quoted line.
WA *Nothing* else is correct.
WA Below i can show, what happens:
|Inserting a "" *into* a quoted line changes the original text
WA ^
|WA ^^
WA ^^ These characters should be below |"|
WA By adding a different number of characters *somewhere* into the quoted
text ("" *into* the first line, "WA " to the beginning of the second
WA line the sense of the quoted text really becomes ruined.
OK, you found a situation where it gets in the way. You can still trun
it off, though. ;-)
WA This behavior makes "The Bat" unusable for serious applications
WA (science, business ).
I don't know about science, I guess it depends on whether you use a
lot of "greater than" in your emails. If so, you will turn the feature
"initials" off. In business, I use it with initials every day and love
it. So do my agents and overseas offices, when they see their initials
before the mails they's written; especially since third and fourth
parties are often copied in and reply. If everybody used TB! (wouldn't
that be a nice world g), everybody would know who wrote what. Yes,
especially in business it is indeed *very* useful.
--
Cheers,
Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 Beta/9
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998
using an Intel Celeron 366 Mhz, 128MB RAM
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Re[2]: Quotingproblem
Hallo Werner, On Monday, October 04, 1999, 11:55:35 PM, Werner Arts wrote: WA This doesn't help. "The Bat" places the "" into the middle of a line. WA If if happens only when the "Initials Feature" is turned on, then WA nothing to mention, but "The Bat" makes it also, when this feature is WA turned off. Oh? I didn't notice that. But you are right. In business, I use it with initials every day and love it. So do my agents and overseas offices, when they see their initials before the mails they's written; especially since third and fourth parties are often copied in and reply. If everybody used TB! (wouldn't that be a nice world g), everybody would know who wrote what. Yes, especially in business it is indeed *very* useful. WA I agree. But if this feature is turned off, then "" should be placed WA at the *beginning* of a quoted line. I agree with you. :-) -- Cheers, Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 Beta/9 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 using an Intel Celeron 366 Mhz, 128MB RAM -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: Quotingproblem
Hallo Ali, On Tuesday, October 05, 1999, 1:28:39 AM, Ali Martin wrote: If everybody used TB! (wouldn't that be a nice world g), everybody would know who wrote what. Yes, especially in business it is indeed *very* useful. AM The problem is that most people *do not* use TB!. Wait until I go on my quest! ;-) AM Most people who use other mailers other than TB will not use AM initials and it will create difficulties, hence my turning it off. Yeah, that's why I agree with Werner that TB! should behave like other mailers when the feature is turned off. AM I don't use initials on TBUDL as I'd like to because the quote AM prefix settings can't be achieved on a per folder basis. Another idea. Not bad. :-) -- Cheers, Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 Beta/9 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 using an Intel Celeron 366 Mhz, 128MB RAM -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: PGP plugins
Hallo Marek, On Tuesday, October 05, 1999, 2:02:07 AM, Marek Mikus wrote: MM Can somebody help me please, what are PGP PLUGINS? MM How TB use them? You can download the PGP Plugin from the beta page. -- Cheers, Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 Beta/9 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 using an Intel Celeron 366 Mhz, 128MB RAM -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: PGP plugins
Hi John, on Tuesday, October 05, 1999, 8:39:57 AM, John Sullivan wrote: JS On Monday 4 October 1999 Alexander V. Kiselev wrote: On 5 Oct 99, at 2:18, Thomas Fernandez wrote PGP (Pretty good privacy) is an encryption programme. You can encrypt your messages [...] so nobody else can read them. grinmode Thomas, it seems that either my English is far poorer I thought it was, or you wrote something pretty strange:-))) Did you really mean that *nobody else* will be able to decrypt??? /grinmode JS Well, if you *want* to, you can encrypt them to your own public key... I think what Alex means is that most people would also want the recipient to be able to decrypt the message g. -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 Beta/9 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[3]: Example of strange attachment
Hi Oleg, on Tuesday, October 05, 1999, 3:35:31 PM, Oleg Zalyalov wrote: AVK Once again: I *don't* see any *.att inline attachments here, and AVK I cannot even guess where these can come from:-) OZ Yes, it strange. There is no any attachment at attached message, but OZ TB! shows that there is file attached and this file contains only OZ critical registration message. Seems to me that that's a bug and OZ should be reported to RitLabs. No, it's not a Bat bug. I got the attachment, but it's on my other computer, at home. If nobody else has sent only this attachment by evening, I will resend it for you to see. -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 Beta/9 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Colours
Hi TBUDL, I complained earlier about the colours; however, eityher I am getting used to them or this version has better colours than the beta ones. Anyway, even thoug I'd still prefer stronger colours (matter of taste, I guess), they are no strain on the eyes any more. -- Best regards, Thomas Message created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: ! and CJK
Hallo Keith, On Friday, October 15, 1999, 9:41:33 PM, Keith Russell wrote: I don't acutally read or write Chinese. I will check this tomorrow in the office, having my secretary type something. KR Thanks. It will be VERY interesting to see what character set shows up KR in the header if s/he sends a Chinese message. In fact, have her send KR a copy to me. I'll start up NJWin and see what I get. Gee, I forgot that. Will do tomorrow. However, I remember in one message it said: charset=big5 and in a Thai language message, it said: charset=X-UNKNOWN but I think that depends on the mailer. KR Thanks a lot for the reply. I hope the Bat! programmers are following KR this discussion. They are aware of this problem. -- Cheers, Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 using an Intel Celeron 366 Mhz, 128MB RAM -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: ! and CJK
Hallo Syafril, On Friday, October 15, 1999, 4:49:25 PM, Syafril Hermansyah wrote: [...] Thanks for the help on how to use Outlook.. actually I use a programme called "The Bat!" ;-) SH What's character set you prefer ? TF A changeable one. Actually, TB ignores the XLAT tables and TF "encoding" option when it comes to double-byte langauges. SH XLAT tables could be the other alternative for composing Asian SH Character Set. The thing is, I have no problem with the Chinese characters. The problem is that regardless of which table I activate in TB!, high ASCII values will always be interpreted as chin.char. So I cannot compose (or even read) European characters. Even if I right-click in a message with umlaute, choose Translation/Central European, a chin.char will be displayed. KR Has anyone at all found a way around these problems? Thomas, I KR noticed you are running Chinese Windows. Do you have similar KR problems? SH Thomas, SH How about you after using 1.36Beta/12 ? TF Now using the released version; no change. SH How if you change "the language" to chinese before composing ? It is *always* Chinese, and I'd like to toggle it off. In the Editor Window, Options/Message Encoding/Central European is overridden by the C-Win default Big5 encoding. -- Cheers, Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 using an Intel Celeron 366 Mhz, 128MB RAM -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: ! and CJK
Hallo Keith, On Friday, October 15, 1999, 9:53:08 PM, Keith Russell wrote: On Friday, October 08, 1999, 1:14:28 PM, Syafril Hermansyah wrote: KR [snip] SH In the first time I run 1.36Beta/12, I found that I got new font : SH Andele Mono, MS Hei (Chinese GB_2312), MingLiu (Chinese_BIG5), MS SH Mincho (Japanese) and MS Song (Chinese_GB2312). GB2312 is used on the mainland, Big5 here in Taiwan. KR Right. So what's Andele? It's a font, whereas the others mentioned are encoding systems. I run C-Win98, and it's the Chinese version (meaning all the Windows stuff is written in Chinese, and I have to work a lot from memory). The bilingual version Chin/Engl is instable. KR I didn't even know there was a Chinese/English version. I've never seen it, because everybody told me not to buy it. But I know that there is also a Japanese/English Win98, because I know someone who has the biggest troubles with it. I also readwrite Thai, so that would be really an advantage :-) KR So you read and write Thai, but not Chinese? I'm envious. I never KR got very far with the Thai writing system; it's so inconsistent it KR might as well be logographic, like Chinese ;-). Unlike Chinese, it has actual letters (44 consonants and 12 vowels; and some tone markers and other stuff), so you can read and pronounce a word if you don't know it. It's pretty consistent; which one of the five T's or two N's or so you have to use in which word depends on the origin of the word ... but this is far OT. ;-) Oh, and no surprise: Thai characters display as Chinese characters under C-Win98, like Russian charcters, too. -- Cheers, Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 using an Intel Celeron 366 Mhz, 128MB RAM -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: Colours
Hallo DINH, On Friday, October 15, 1999, 7:05:23 PM, DINH Frederic wrote: TF I complained earlier about the colours; however, eityher I am TF getting used to them or this version has better colours than the TF beta ones. DF I also think red wasn't bad. Did you try without hi-color icons? They can be toggled? How? -- Cheers, Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 using an Intel Celeron 366 Mhz, 128MB RAM -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: ! and CJK
Hi Keith, on Saturday, October 16, 1999, 10:13:38 AM, Keith Russell wrote: The only problem I found was that one needed the USA windows to run them as running English ofice 2000 on other European languages could cause corruption... Keith Russell Okay, not a problem for me, since I'm running English Windows. Might Keith Russell be for others, though. Most of the mixed language versions like Thai are unstable and I havent seen any critical updates for ages so presumably those should be targets of hacking attachs(g) KR "Mixed language versions" like Thai? I don't understand what you're KR saying here. Dual-language versions. The Thai Windows is actualy Thai/English. Used it for nine years ;-) and in my experience language mixing here in the far East is a problem (and a large amount of our business in sorting it out again...) Keith Russell Fascinating. So what is your business? Please reply in private if Keith Russell you'd like; I'm very interested. We sell / build / service PC's in South Thailand and most of our customers are the local foreigners who kind of dislike the idea to have Thais inside their systems... Plus that I myself am involved in the USA in a system security company and am at present setting up a second service center in the area where I live... That is *very* interesting - whereabouts in Southern Thailand are you? I am going into some software selling in Thailand, with friends in BKK. Target group Thais, though, not foreigners. I just came back from Phuket and might be there again in two weeks or so. Thai has a small utility from a local university which works fine, KR Small utility that does what? I'd like to know which one you mean. I would also like to know which encoding system you think is more widely used: Chula or KU? I don't have a Thai Windows any more, and when I did, I didn't look what they use. One interesting thing: C-win's chinese character set Big5 overrrides the fonts on all applics, and even Thai fonts display as chinese characters. Exception: Chula Word works excellent. It comes with the Thai drivers and for some reason, they override C-Win. I have to find out how they do that, that's our solution for the CJK problem! stay away from Thai master, its better looking but also a master in system corruption. So if you need Thai, very likely a font could be found for theBAT..I havent tried it. (And anyway, I cannot read or write it but I can install chinese/japanese or whatever windows). I have a number of Thai fonts, and my favourite is Angsual. You can download more from Nectec (if you are with Internet Thailand Co.,Ltd.). KR So we have someone with a Spanish surname who lives in Taiwan and KR doesn't read or write Chinese but does read or write Thai, and another KR who lives (or works) in Thailand and doesn't read or write Thai And an American (Englishman/Australian?) who reads and writes Korean... KR This is truly an international community we have here, isn't it? I KR think it's great! (As well as being very envious) ;-) We have as problem here anyway that hardly anyone wants to pay for software so while I wouldnt mind selling theBAT, with all the free software around its , well, difficult! I sold (!) some of the programmes I wrote in Thailand. :-) Keith Russell I have downloaded all the Korean support. The result was that Internet Keith Russell Explorer and Outlook/Express now work great--but no effect on The Bat, Keith Russell which, as Thomas mentioned, does not appear to pay any attention to Keith Russell the DBCS fonts. correct... But Thai has diferent fonts. KR Different from what? Do you mean that they're not DBCS fonts? Or that KR TB will display Thai using various fonts? Or something else? Thai is not a double-byte language as I explained earlier. But you have a choice of different fonts, as Thais can be very creative. g Keith Russell Thanks--especially for the Office 2000 suggestion. I'll check it out. Should work, MS says somewhere it is using unicode, no idea if correct or if it changed... KR Using Unicode for Office 2000? Or for Windows 2000? I think Unicode KR requires OS support risking to sound stupid What is Unicode? An encoding system, similar to ISO-8859-1 or so? -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Fwd: FW: Âà±H: ¤jô¤j¯f¬r
Hi Keith, here are the headers of a message sent to me in Chinese. The mailer (not mentioned in these headers) is Outlook running under C-Win98. Delivery of this message was via our company LAN, not via the Internet. Note how the name of the encoding system (big5) is in the Subject line. Best regards, Thomas. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ===8==This is a forwarded message= From: Fullname [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Fullname [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Saturday, September 11, 1999, 11:28:47 AM Subject: FW: Âà±H: ¤jô¤j¯f¬r Received: by NT1 id 01BEFC05.C2E0C8E0@NT1; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 11:28:48 +0800 Message-ID: 113D449CBA29D3118A1200E0180026E4061115@NT1 From: Fullname [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Fullname [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: =?big5?B?Rlc6IMLgsUg6IKRqrfSkaq9mrHI=?= Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 11:28:47 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="big5" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 ¥D¦®¡G¤jô¤j¯f¬r [...I have snipped the rest of the body, because it will display as garbage in your screen unless you have Big5 encoding] ===8===End of original message text=== -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: delete key deletes msg instead of block of msgs I am editing
Hallo Marck, On Saturday, October 16, 1999, 8:17:26 PM, Marck D. Pearlstone wrote: t I just managed to delete some messages including some I was going to t answer as I highlighted a block of text, and pressed delete, MDP In case you didn't realize, the deleted messages would only have been MDP moved to the Trash folder and can easily be retrieved in the case of MDP such accidents. ... as long as you didn't close the Bat! in the meantime. ;-) However, tracer, worth mentioning is that thanks to Marck and Syafril, this list is also on the net. Check out http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com. -- Cheers, Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 using an Intel Celeron 366 Mhz, 128MB RAM -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: Can Thai be used??
Hallo tracer, On Saturday, October 16, 1999, 3:41:52 PM, tracer wrote: t Question, due to all these language questions I dug up some stuff and t as long as I cannot select a simple Thai font with external switch t (which exist) I see no easy way to get Thai in the BAT. t I see Thai is on the list of languages in the conversion tables but t tables donot seem to be setup. t 1. IS Thai setup? You need a Thai driver. I have never worked with X-LAT tables, though. Thai drivers come with Thai Windows. If you have stripped Thai out of it because you want the English-only version, you'll have to get the drivers from Chula or KU or Nectec or anywhere. Not a problem, since you are in the software circles in Thailand, really. But then, why would you use Thai fonts if you have taken the effort of making your Windows English-only? t 2. If not, CAN it be setup and how? t 3. How complex to select from ALL fonts in the control panel? You have all the monospaced fonts right there in TB!, no need to go to the Control Panel. Options/Editor Preferences/Display/Change, and voila: no need to set up anything. It's as easy as that. -- Cheers, Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 using an Intel Celeron 366 Mhz, 128MB RAM -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: OT: Laguanges and names, really, honest! (WAS: PGP Check Signature does not work)
Hallo Alexander, On Sunday, October 17, 1999, 6:34:34 AM, Alexander V. Kiselev wrote: The latter. Esperanto has 28 letters and 28 base sounds. 1 sound per letter, obviously. It also has several other sounds which are made when a small selection of letters are combined, but nothing as prolific as in English. In AVK AFAIK, I've once heard a discussion 'bout "Esperanto and AVK Russian", and I believe it was said that some modifications to AVK Esperanto are needed to match Russian pronunciation. AVK Russian is in fact much "write as you hear it" language (well, AVK actually Byellorussian language *is* exactly, but in Russian AVK there exist heaps of local dialects, so... but the overall idea is AVK that, as I get it). So well, 33 symbols, 31 "basic" sounds, plus 2 AVK symbols to achieve "special effects" like to make this particular AVK consonant softer or harder. Can't get how you fit it all into 28 AVK characters (even with modifiers). I really don't know why everybody thinks all langauges of the world should be squeezed into the English alphabet. Look at Vietnamese: it looks awful now! And really, even though they use 28 latin letters, they still have to mke "special effects" and at the end, you still don't know how to pronounce it. How do you pronounce this "o" with the little tick-mark? No, every language has the alphabet/character set most suitable for it. And why not? AVK Damn it, I still cannot force myself to pronounce AVK "pronunciation" correctly.. g -- Cheers, Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 using an Intel Celeron 366 Mhz, 128MB RAM -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[3]: PGP Check Signature does not work
Hallo tracer, On Sunday, October 17, 1999, 10:15:12 AM, tracer wrote: Alexander Don't know Esperanto, but think you're wrong here:-) the first Alexander "a" above should sound similar to German "Ja" (that is, as it's Alexander common in many Latin-based languages, should be written as Alexander two-dotted "a"). What for the second "a" above, it's pronounced Alexander exactly as the English letter "R" is called, that is, "AR":-) So Alexander either Esperanto is not so fonetic you think it is or you haven't Alexander got the proper pronunciation:-)) t Try Arabic, you can spell almost any sound in it... t I donot speak it but its an extreemly flexible way to make any sound t even if you still cannot read the result (g) and I remember for my t workpermit I needed about 10 minutes before my Dutch name was properly t translated so it sounded the same... Arabic is 100% phonetic, we used to write dictations and hand't ever heard the words before... 26 letters, plus three "short vowels" (often not written except in classic texts), plus one stop-voice-marker (hamza). Problem is, they have only three vowels: a, i, o (pronounce these the German way), no P (except in the Urdu version) and so on. Every script has drawbacks when you want to use it for another language. ;-) -- Cheers, Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 using an Intel Celeron 366 Mhz, 128MB RAM -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[3]: Can Thai be used??
Hallo tracer, On Sunday, October 17, 1999, 7:24:20 AM, tracer wrote: t 1. IS Thai setup? Thomas You need a Thai driver. I have never worked with X-LAT tables, though. Thomas Thai drivers come with Thai Windows. If you have stripped Thai out of t So its of interest to have programs which can type /read Thai but NOT t require the real Thai Windows. t Email most certainly falls in that category, and a program which t cannot do that misses part of the market ... t Conversion tables are with Thai not the whole story anyway I would t suspect... My X-LAT table does not include Thai... :-( t 2. If not, CAN it be setup and how? t 3. How complex to select from ALL fonts in the control panel? Thomas You have all the monospaced fonts right there in TB!, no need to go to Thomas the Control Panel. Options/Editor Preferences/Display/Change, and Thomas voila: no need to set up anything. It's as easy as that. t Can one add fonts to that list? Or are any monospaced fonts t automaticaly shown? They are automatically shown if you put them in the C:\Windows|Font directory. -- Cheers, Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 using an Intel Celeron 366 Mhz, 128MB RAM -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[3]: Fwd: FW: H: jjfr
Hallo Keith, On Sunday, October 17, 1999, 2:24:23 PM, Keith Russell wrote: Yes... This is interesting. As expected, the subject line in the message you sent me is garbage until I run UnionWay AsianSuite and set it to Big 5; the subject then becomes good, readable Chinese. However, if I then "Show Kludges", the subject is identified as ISO-8859-1, in contrast to the subject header below, which correctly identifies it as Big 5. It in fact doesn't matter. Two cases: 1. with ISO-8859-1 it supposedly works this way: [...] 2. with Big5 (or any other double-byte encoding) it works as it should, look through RFCs (again, RFCs 2045--2048). KR When you say "it doesn't matter" above, do you mean: KR 1. Even with ISO-8859-1, it will display properly, or KR 2. The RFCs say it doesn't matter. KR In other words, is this standard-compliant behavior? I don't know this either. Would like to ask Steve for a comment, as you are very firm with the RFC's. And another thing: I cannot understand, where [the hell] TB leads to errors? What happens if you specify ISO-8859-1 as the default encoding, then modify the X-LAT for ISO-8859-1 to use the proper font and script? Now if you try to send the message in DBL to yourself, can you read it? Can somebody else read it? And why? KR Good questions. I can read and write Chinese (or my secreatary can, rather) with ISO-8859-1 as default encoding. C-win does the rest. -- Cheers, Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 using an Intel Celeron 366 Mhz, 128MB RAM -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: =?KOI8-R?Q?Re:_Fwd:_FW:_=F7=C1H:_j=C6jfr?=
Hallo Alexander, On Sunday, October 17, 1999, 3:12:27 AM, Alexander V. Kiselev wrote: AVK Comments: Sender has elected to use 8-bit data in this message. If problems arise, refer to postmaster at sender's site. AVK Subject: =?koi8-r?Q?=3D=3FKOI8-R=3FQ=3FRe=3A=5FFwd=3A=5FFW=3A=5F=3DF7=3DC1=B1H=3A?= =?koi8-r?Q?=5F=A4j=AD=3DC6=A4j=96f=ACr=3F=3D?= AVK On 16 Oct 99, at 9:53, Keith Russell wrote AVK about "Re: Fwd: FW: ÷Á±H: ¤jƤjf¬r": The mailer (not mentioned in these headers) is Outlook running under C-Win98. Delivery of this message was via our company LAN, not via the Internet. Note how the name of the encoding system (big5) is in the Subject line. AVK This is due to RFCs. Look yourself. The Subject line (when not AVK in plain ASCII) *must* be encoded to either QP (q-type) or AVK Base64 (b-type), and the encoding used must be specified AVK there. Thanks, I didn't know that. AVK Upon receiving, the e-mail reader automatically decodes AVK it and never shows you the "garbage" it actually is. Chinese is not garbage!! ;-) AVK BTW, TB always encodes the subject field to B-type (base64), AVK although RFCs say that this has to happen only in the case when AVK the *major* part of the Subject: field is non-ASCII... Once more, AVK look through RFC2047 for the details. It's in plain English:-) AVK Hence it must be much clearer for you then my own writings:-)) I will check out RFC2047. In the meantime, your mailer has switched my beautiful big5 to Cyrillic. The subject is garbled now, it displays as a mix of Hex notation and Chinese characters. My mailer (it's called The Bat! - you should try it) leaves the original encoding instructon intact... :-) Yes... This is interesting. As expected, the subject line in the message you sent me is garbage until I run UnionWay AsianSuite and set it to Big 5; the subject then becomes good, readable Chinese. However, if I then "Show Kludges", the subject is identified as ISO-8859-1, in contrast to the subject header below, which correctly identifies it as Big 5. AVK It in fact doesn't matter. Two cases: [...] AVK So well, now, having wrote all this, I cannot tell you for sure AVK how it works in the case of TB. What I *do* know is that the AVK guys using Pegasus with Chineeze use ISO-8859-1 without AVK any problems (as far as I understood them). Simply Pegasus AVK doesn't support Big5 or any other bouble-byte encoding AVK directly. Same here with TB. I already mentioned it in another post. C-Win98 overrides all settings and always assumes Big5. So: no problems with chinese characters, but yes problem with European, Russian, Thai writing. AVK And another thing: I cannot understand, where [the hell] TB AVK leads to errors? What happens if you specify ISO-8859-1 as AVK the default encoding, then modify the X-LAT for ISO-8859-1 to AVK use the proper font and script? Now if you try to send the AVK message in DBL to yourself, can you read it? Can somebody AVK else read it? And why? Maybe this helps: I toggle between English and Chinese with ctrl-shift or crtl-spacebar. So, when I am in English mode, this would be ISO-8859-1, and I toggle it to be Big5. I can start a message in English, toggle to Chinese for a few words, and toggle back to English. The header would show ISO-8859-1, right? Subject: =?big5?B?Rlc6IMLgsUg6IKRqrfSkaq9mrHI=?= This was toggled to Big5 for the Chinese characters when typing the subject. AVK Once again, it's just a properly formed MIME Subject line... In AVK Base64 encoding. Fine. And now your message encoding is set on KOI-R, and if you send me any Russian characters, they will be interpreted into Chinese characters according to Big5. Why can't an TB override C-Win's languages? Again, Outlook, Netscape and Eudora do that because they don't use monospaced fonts. But, coming to think of it, what does that have to do with monospaced or not? And why do European characters in Andale Mono look very Chinese indeed? -- Cheers, Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 using an Intel Celeron 366 Mhz, 128MB RAM -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[4]: Colours
Hi Ian, on Sunday, October 17, 1999, 1:28:43 AM, Ian Gore wrote: DF I also think red wasn't bad. Did you try without hi-color icons? They can be toggled? How? IG Under Options. I'm convinced the "High-Colour Images" appear when the IG option is off, though! Got it. But hi-colour looks better IMHO. -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[3]: auto-complete not working in address fields
Hi Terry, on Sunday, October 17, 1999, 9:13:49 PM, Terry Frazier wrote: TF Yes, I mean Ctrl+Plus. At one point it worked, even for groups. I TF could type in a partial GroupName and Ctrl+Plus would finish TF the entry with "GroupName list" in the To: field. TF Now Ctrl+Plus appears to be completely disabled, for groups or TF anything else. My only change was to upgrade to TB! 1.36 I can't TF find any preference setting or option to enable or disable the TF feature. Try ctronol-shift-plus. some users with European keyboards have reported that this shortcut changes depending on the keyboard. -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: OT: Laguanges and names, really, honest! (WAS: PGP Check Signature does not work)
Hi Steve, on Monday, October 18, 1999, 11:22:40 AM, Steve Lamb wrote: I really don't know why everybody thinks all langauges of the world should be squeezed into the English alphabet. SL I don't think it should. Although I'll take how many Esperantists write SL Esperanto. As I said, it has 28 characters. It doesn't use all of the SL English letters at all. For the letters that the "standard" font doesn't SL create, they put an x at the end since Esperanto doesn't use x. SL a b c cx d e f g gx h hx i j jx k l m n o p r s sx t u ux v z I would consider this the Epseranto alphabet then, which is suitable for Esperanto; proving my point. ;-) -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[4]: OT: Laguanges and names, really, honest! (WAS: PGP Check Signature does not work)
Hi NGUYEN, on Sunday, October 17, 1999, 10:16:41 PM, NGUYEN Hoai Nam wrote: TF I really don't know why everybody thinks all langauges of the world TF should be squeezed into the English alphabet. Look at Vietnamese: it TF looks awful now! NHN Eh guy, what the h... you know about Vietnamese NHN What did you mean "awful" with our current character set? Not too much except that the character set seems to be Latin on first sight, and then it turns out that there are so many "extras" added. Vietnamese, as a tonal language, cannot just be displayed with the 26-character set. - I understand you were using Chinese charactgers until earlier this century. I was making my point by using Vietnamese as an example what happens if you want to use the English (or French in that case) alphabet for a language from a compeltely different background. And I did not mean any offence. - Forgive me the wording. TF And really, even though they use 28 latin letters, TF they still have to mke "special effects" and at the end, you still TF don't know how to pronounce it. How do you pronounce this "o" with the TF little tick-mark? NHN Yeah, I agree with you that it's so ridiculous that someone wants to NHN pronounce correctly a language by seeing character set only! NHN You have to learn it to do so. So, how many characters do you actually use? TF No, every language has the alphabet/character set TF most suitable for it. And why not? NHN That's clear... NHN Waiting your feedbacks... And I'm glad that TB is getting more widely recognized here in Asia. :-) -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
SOT: Languages and Writing Systems
Hi tracer, on Monday, October 18, 1999, 12:09:55 PM, tracer wrote: Thomas Every script has drawbacks when you want to use it for another Thomas language. ;-) t I know but here in Thailand it must be about the only place where they t try to make a language which is quite irregular when it comes to the t way things are written/pronounced, regular... problem is for instance t Than, Tani, Tanee and whatever being used for the same thing. t Or Thanon, tanon whatever for street. The good thing is that Thai t postal office employees are masters in recognising screwed up t addresses... The problem is not Thai, but English. "Thanon" is spelled to-tung, no-noo, no-noo. Thani is spelled to-tong, sara ah, no-noo, sara ih. How to trans-scribe this into English, is up to everybody's taste, because there is no recognized standard. After all, it would be only for the "illiterate farangs", so who cares... ;-) t Anyway, drop me pls that suitable Thai font you said you had. t Its a non proportional TT font correct?? Yes; I already sent it to you yesterday by attachment to mail. It's called DbThaiText Fixed. If yo9u didn't receive it, I will send it again in the evening (I don't have it here in the office). ...And for those who were wondering why this thread is still "on" the lsit: I believe that it is important for a truely international email client to know about the problems that arise if you use langauges other than English. I believe the European langauges and Russian have been taken care of by the developers, but we are only boiling down on the problem with Asian languages. I hope that's OK. -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: %ATTACHMENTS: doesnt show files attached
Hi tracer, on Monday, October 18, 1999, 2:09:10 PM, tracer wrote: t problem: use below shown macro but when attaching whatever I do, %ATTACHMENTS t seems to always generate "none" as result. t Any idea how to fix? I'm not sure, but I think this macro is only for the print-templates. -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: jump to the next unread message - was - Re[2]: The Bat! - suggestions
Hallo Ali, On Monday, October 18, 1999, 12:37:12 PM, Ali Martin wrote: AKL Ctrl+[ - jump to the previous _unread_ (inside the current folder _only_) As for these "short" keys, somebody suggested to change these to N for Next Unread and so on, I think the suggestions were based on Agent - I think that would be a good idea. Ctrl-] is really awkward to use. AM This will unfortunately break the operation of the quick search AM utility. Well, OK. I never use quick seacrh. What does it do? -- Cheers, Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 using an Intel Celeron 366 Mhz, 128MB RAM -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: Netscape ?
Hi Roel, on Thursday, October 21, 1999, 11:54:41 PM, Roel wrote: R I just got this problem: R The Bat can't check my pop-mail when I'm running Netscape 4.7... R (I'm using TB 1.35) R Anybody else with this problem? No, I'm running Netscape all the time. Also using 4.7 now. No problem at all. You might want to check whether you have set Netscpae Messenger to automatically check your POP mail every xx minutes. As far as I know there is a problem with the POP protocol if there is more than one connection at the same time to a POP account. -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: *.bmp attachment
Hi tracer, on Friday, October 22, 1999, 8:24:39 PM, tracer wrote: §yafril" Any explanation why TB so slow to view/open messages with *.bmp §yafril" attachment ? [...] t Now on the other hand I have noticed that if the bat has been open for t a while and you edit and look many things, system gets slower and t slower. t I have 256 mb ram and essentially it ends freezing after a few hours. t I suspect a nice leak in memory and non released resources due to t file openings and closures being the reason. My computer also freezes after c ouple of hours of work and I also suspected the same as you. A memory dump (mem/d in dos) does not provide any evidence, so I kept my mouth (keyboard) shut. If there are unreleased resources, they could be caused by number of other programmes I use all day opening and closing files. -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Clock syncing
Hi Steve, on Friday, October 22, 1999, 11:50:09 PM, Steve Lamb wrote: SL For me, syncing my server off a tier 2 clock and syncing the rest off SL my server is good enough. I simply don't need to be in the 3-5 second SL catagory and don't mind that much drift at all. It is precise enough for my SL mail to be correctly placed with the rest of the world and for me to set my SL house clocks to and still get to work on time. ;) Let me make myself look stupid: Where can I donwload such a clock-syncronizer? Is it freeware? And does it work for LAN's as well (Novell Netware)? -- Thanks, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: Chinese Character Set
Hallo Syafril, On Friday, October 22, 1999, 11:10:30 PM, Syafril Hermansyah wrote: SH I found something this morning, maybe you'd like to know. SH I installed The Bat! international language pack, and this morning I SH got a message from China (*.cn), which write his name in China SH Character set. SH I change the language to china (Option|language|chinese), at a sudden SH all The Bat! menu change to china Char set, but the reply message SH (above) still use ISO-8559-1. Yes, this only switches the interface langauge, and has nothing do to with the langauge of the message itself. SH From editor, I change the character set to MingLiu...then I can SH see the right character set (his name) in reply his message. I was trying this. I downloaded the latest language pack, too. However, my TB editor does not show any Chinese encoding. If this works, and I take it that you run an English windows, it would mean that anybody with an English Windows and TB can read/write Chinese-language emails, no need for additional sofrtware. By extension, this would hold true for other languages, not only CJK but also Thai. This would be most excellent. Kindly advise which editor you use. SH Because I don't use Chinese Keyboard nor read Chinese, I can't make SH further test. You could send me a screenshot, so I can check whether it is "really" Chinese or just "looks like it". I am copying the Chinese Bat! mailing list in. -- Cheers, Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 using an Intel Celeron 366 Mhz, 128MB RAM -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: Clock syncing
Hallo Ali, On Saturday, October 23, 1999, 12:02:29 PM, Ali Martin wrote: Let me make myself look stupid: Where can I donwload such a clock-syncronizer? Is it freeware? And does it work for LAN's as well (Novell Netware)? AM 'Horas' which I use isn't freeware. It's available at: AM http://www.basta.com/ProdHoras.htm AM Costs $15. Thanks. I just downloaded it for eveluation. -- Cheers, Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 using an Intel Celeron 366 Mhz, 128MB RAM -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: Clock syncing
Hallo Steve, On Saturday, October 23, 1999, 1:47:02 PM, Steve Lamb wrote: Let me make myself look stupid: Where can I donwload such a clock-syncronizer? Is it freeware? And does it work for LAN's as well (Novell Netware)? SL The one I use is Automachron which is free SL http://www.cam.org/~oneguy/ Thanks, I've downloaded this now on my home computer for evaluation. -- Cheers, Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 using an Intel Celeron 366 Mhz, 128MB RAM -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[3]: THE BAT! Will it be a newsreader option ?
Hallo Marck, On Saturday, October 23, 1999, 11:33:34 PM, Marck D. Pearlstone wrote: MDP I use WS_FTP for "real" FTP. :-) I find it very usable but awfully slow. For larger FTP's (and with my baud rate, each new version of TB qualifies), I telnet into my own account, "get" the file via unix' ftp command onto the home directory on my ISP's server (high baud rate), and then use WS_FTP to get it from my local server onto my PC. Sounds complicated, but in the end is faster. ;-) -- Cheers, Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 using an Intel Celeron 366 Mhz, 128MB RAM -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Standard Templates
Hi TBUDL, so, OK, we have all set up our templates and everything the way we like it. However, for those who discover TB new, there are standard templates that are supposed to be the way the avarage users would prefer them. I would like to develop a list of what you be improved there. Examples: - the Reply template should contain the word "on" before %DateEn - the Reply template should have the string "GMT+" after %OTimeLongEn; the user will know to adjust to his time zone. - all templates should add "-- /n" before the sig. - Forward template should look like this: *** start of sample *** %Cursor Best regards, %FromName. mailto:%FromAddr ===8===This is a forwarded message From: %OFromName %OFromAddr To: %OToList Cc: %OCCList Date: %ODateEn, %OTimeLongEn Subject: %OSubj %Text ===8=== End of forwarded message *** end of sample *** You see that the cursor and sig is above the quotes. You further see that the delimited "this is a forwarded message" is above the mesage header. You further see that I am using %OToList and %OCCList instead of %OToName %OToAddr. Any more ideas? -- Best regards, Thomas Message created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[3]: *.bmp attachment
Hi tracer, on Monday, October 25, 1999, 12:49:33 PM GMT+0800, tracer wrote: t mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] t NOTE: 1 MAILRUN PER DAY ONLY You seem to have very short days... g -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: New proposed ideas / features for The Bat
Hi Roman, on Monday, October 25, 1999, 4:38:11 AM GMT+0800, Roman Meng wrote: RM I discoverd the bat only a few days ago, but I think its one of the RM best Mailers on the market (maybe the best!). *I* think it is, too. ;-) RM + Encrypt the attachments too if the whole mail is encrypted! RM Or at minimum warn them, that attachments won't be encrypted, How about a dialog box: "do you want attachment encrypted, too? Y/N" However, I cannot think of a situation in which you'd want to encrypt the message but not the attachment. RM + A new checkbox inside a Adress Entry Property: RM "Always encrypt outgoing E-mail to this user" (PGP) Agree. RM (it would simply add %ENCRYPTCOMPLETE to the mail, cause it's RM no solution at the moment to write a specific template for every RM user containing %ENCRYPTCOMPLETE. And in the general templates RM its not useful (There are always some people that don't have PGP)) But maybe there's a workaround: If they don't have PGP, you won't have their public key, so TB can't encrypt. Right? RM + A new checkbox inside a Adress Entry Property: RM "Always decrypt incoming E-Mail from this user (every Email-Adress RM he has!) and save it decrypted!" Wouldn't do anything for me - I would never use automatic decryption or store decrypted mails. You never know who seizes your computer... RM If you really think, this is to unsecure, than you should save it RM encrypted, but display it decrypted (means decrypt it every time RM he wants to take a look at it! (and prompting for password if not RM cached)) The cache part about the password just svaed you ;-) However, I don't know whether it's my machine, but decryption freezes everything for a couple, ten seconds. So, I decrypt it, reply, then delete the decrypted version. RM BTW, If I (in the current version 1.36) decrypt a Mail, then a RM second message will be generated an that one will be saved RM decrypted. So, it can't be worse to decrypt it automatically RM and save it without manual work of the user. Same thing. I don't keep decrypted versions of mails that I choose to encrypt. RM + Possibility to switch the "Get new Mail" - button in the main-toolbar RM to a "Check Mail for All", cause its annoying to always try to click RM it over the arrow-menu and it isn't easy to press the HotKey (Alt-F2) I do both (Alt-F2 or the arrow thing), depending on my mood, and find them both convenient. I like it that the on-eclick will check only this specific account. RM + Possibility to switch the "Send queued Mail" - button in the main-toolbar RM to a "Send Mail from All". Same reason as before (but worse, ever tried to RM press Alt-Shift-F2 with one hand?) I have all accounts on "Combined Delivery", so it does not matter whether I click "check" or "send". Thus, Alt-F2 will also "send all". RM Maybe the last two points can be done over a global "Switch to Get and RM Send All Mode" Checkbox inside the preferences? I didn't quite get this. You do know about the Account/Properties/Transport/Combined Delivery checkbox, right? -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: New proposed ideas / features for The Bat
Hallo Steve, On Monday, October 25, 1999, 11:24:47 PM (GMT+0800), Steve Lamb wrote: RM + A new checkbox inside a Adress Entry Property: RM "Always encrypt outgoing E-mail to this user" (PGP) Agree. SL While I agree with this you are aware this is possible with templates, SL right? Just saw it - I can specify specific tempaltes in the addressbook. Actually, I only ooked after I saw your reply. RM + A new checkbox inside a Adress Entry Property: RM "Always decrypt incoming E-Mail from this user (every Email-Adress RM he has!) and save it decrypted!" Wouldn't do anything for me - I would never use automatic decryption or store decrypted mails. You never know who seizes your computer... SL Flat out silly. I love your style. ;-) SL I'm sorry, but there is no risk of anything from automatically SL decrypting or verifying signatures. I think it is absurd that TB! SL doesn't do that nor does it hide the PGP envelope. I don't actually know "the PGP envelope" is, but I do know that other people who use my computer cannot read encrypted mails without my passphrase. -- Cheers, Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 using an Intel Celeron 366 Mhz, 128MB RAM -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[3]: Standard Templates
Hi Oleg, on Wednesday, October 27, 1999, 2:27:03 PM GMT+0800, Oleg Zalyalov wrote: OZ Monday, October 25, 1999, Steve Lamb wrote about OZ Standard Templates: SL Sunday, October 24, 1999, 10:57:13 PM, Thomas wrote: - all templates should add "-- /n" before the sig. - Forward template should look like this: SL Sure... If each template should have the standard sig delimiter in it, SL why did you just suggest a forward template that does not? :) OZ I think it is because it will be not easy to make use of forwarded OZ information when recipient of the forwarded message will want to OZ reply, and especially to forward the message. That's what I think too. While Steve is right in asking this question, I think he is even "righter" in questioning my wording. I also think he was being ironic in his remark and knows what we mean. :-P So, the sig delimiter should be standard for the "send" and "reply" templates. And, since we're at it, the normal "template" should be renamed "send template" ;-) -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: Standard Templates
Hallo Ali, On Wednesday, October 27, 1999, 7:49:14 PM (GMT+0800), Ali Martin wrote: AM snip So, the sig delimiter should be standard for the "send" and "reply" templates. And, since we're at it, the normal "template" should be renamed "send template" ;-) AM ^ AM You mean 'new message template'. So, in Account Properties it is called "New Message Template" (which is fine), but in Folder Properties (which I use a lot more) is is just called "Template". Nothing to add... ;-) -- Cheers, Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 using an Intel Celeron 366 Mhz, 128MB RAM -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: THE BAT! Will it be a newsreader option ?
Hi Steve,
on Thursday, October 28, 1999, 9:20:51 AM GMT+0800, Steve Lamb wrote:
Computers will become a more and more integral part of our lives, but
they will look and behave nothing like these primitive, difficult to
use, unreliable, frustrating tools we use now - and it won't be that
long - but in the meantime, there are livings, even fortunes, still to be
made.
SL Again, I take offense.
Why? Even if this was meant to offend computers (which it wasn't), why
do you take it personally? I think Paula is not suggesting anything
but saying what many people concerned with the future (I mean those
who try to foresee business matters, not fortune tellers -
those waddoyoucallems) say will happen.
SL I do not find my computers primative,
I agree with you.
SL difficult to use,
I disagree - they are, for the general public. At least "too"
difficult.
SL unreliable
I believe this depends on the software - hardware is pretty reliable
these days, in my personal experience.
SL or frustrating.
sigh I wish you were always right on this one. ;-)
SL I find that people have unreasonable expectations of what a
SL computer should do and that they need to be educated to the fact
SL that their expectations are entirely unreasonable.
This is the point were I entirely disagree with you. Expectations that
might look "unreasonable" to you today, may be the standard tomorrow.
Heck, I had this superfast computer with 16Mhz!! Had anybody ever told
me that tens years later, I would be calling 400MHz "not really fast
enough", I would have labeld him unreasonable. - How about our
Winchester Disks with the incredibly big storage capacity of 10MB? Had
anybody told me I would have a 6.2GB hard disk on my "home computer"
(!) only 15 years later, I would have laughed. - How about Bill Gates'
famous prediction that 64KB of RAM should be enough for everybody?
Along with these three things (speed/RAM/HD space) come possibilities
that will make computers really easy to use. Let me take voice control
complete with secure networking ("Computer, what's my account balance
at Bank A today?") as an example. Keyboards are one of these things
nobody wants to use in the future.
SL The alternative is the continued dumbing down of computers to a point
SL where they are virtually unusable by anyone other than complete idiots.
The average user does not need to be beyond complete idiots. Without
going too much into detail, I take programming a VCR as an example.
Don;'t you believe that this will be made easier so that Pop and Aunt
Mary will be able to prgramme theirs? - Computers will go the same
way. This is hardly avboidable in an open market. The consumer will
decide, not the programmer who says the consumers will just have to be
educated. The consumer refuses and says: "you want me to buy your
product, make the product the way I like it".
Please don't forget, you live in a computer world, for you this is
easy, but the average person (who will be the average computer user)
is interested in baseball, discotheques, or shareholder values. Even
if they could learn, they don't want to. Example: every manager in
business nowadays needs to know how to use Excel. Personally, I hate
these spreadsheets. OK, bad example, because you won't be able to do
these without a keyboard, even in the future, but what I want to say
is that many people whose focus on life is somewhere else than
computers, may not be too stupid to use them but simply not
inrterested in the complicated way they work now.
If RIT Labs thought they had a chance of putting TB on even a small part
of corporate desktops, do you think there would be any contest?
SL Yes, there would be.
The people in my office love to use different fonts, different font
sizes, and different colours in emails. I hate it. But that's why I
think Outlook will keep the biggest market share. I don't think TB
intends to go after that market, either. But let's not assume waht
TB's target makret is - RIT Labs will either have their own opinion,
or just wanted to create a programme *they* liked and are happy that
others like it too. We - the users - can only speculate and that is a
waste of bandwidth.
I think - having sort of forgotten now - that my point was that a
software company has more to consider than a few e-mails posted to a
user list with respect to providing news reading capabilities or
anything else about the development of their product.
SL Exactly, like looking for a niche market a lot of people forget, including
SL you, repeatedly. The power user who doesn't want everything and the kitchen
SL sink in their program.
And this is were I agree with you. I see TB as a programme which does
not cater to the masses but to the "select few" computer scholars. By
this I mean all sorts of programmers (pros, ex-pros, future-pros, and
hobbyists), postmasters and the like, who seem to be the majority on
this list, too, if I am not mistaken. And, with computers becoming
more and
Re: PGP question
Hi Michael, on Thursday, October 28, 1999, 10:53:25 AM GMT+0800, Michael Zigler DVM, CertVOphthal wrote: MZDC Sorry for such a basic question... I'm a PGP novice. How do I send MZDC someone my key? Your "public key" should be a text file. You can attach it to an email, or put it into the body of the email. If you cannot find that text file, go into Tools/PGP/Key Manager and export (save) your key to a .TXT file. Do not send your "private key" to anybody! -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
OT: Computer Philosophy (was: Re[2]: THE BAT! Will it be a newsreader option ?)
Hi Steve, on Friday, October 29, 1999, 12:04:47 AM GMT+0800, Steve Lamb wrote: Why? Even if this was meant to offend computers (which it wasn't), why do you take it personally? SL Because it is an attack on those who don't find computers in that manner. I don't feel it that way. Hmm. SL difficult to use, I disagree - they are, for the general public. At least "too" difficult. SL The "general public" finds the concept of breathing too hard. What's your SL point? They have to breath, wehtehr they want to or not. They don't have to use comptuers - "we" want them to. For commercial, political, or other reasons. The bone won't walk to the dog. (German saying, meaning if you want to sell something, you have to go to the market, not tell the market to come and see you). SL unreliable I believe this depends on the software - hardware is pretty reliable these days, in my personal experience. SL That depends on the OS, mostly. Windows is unreliable. Mac is SL unreliable. Yet these are the systems that were "designed" for the very SL clueless nits that Paula is talking about. I do see a correlation there. Well, the OS is software in my vocabulary, so you are actually saying you agree with me? :- SL or frustrating. sigh I wish you were always right on this one. ;-) SL Why do you find your computers frustrating. Because they detect the smallest mistake I make. I missing semicolon in a Pascal freaks up your programme and you look somewhere completely different, for example. Unforgiving beast. ;-) SL What I find frustrating are the people who do not understand SL several of my points on why certain things work. Has nothing to do SL with the computers. I get it: we are talking about different things here. But I also find it frustrating when I try to explain something and people just don't see my point. But I see this more as a psychological matter and agree it has nothing to do with computers or this UDL. SL So far the computers that I have worked on (the many, MANY SL computers I have worked on) have all done what I expected of them. SL It is rare that I find one that does not perform as expected. I agree with you here. But that does not prevent me from being frustrated at times. Even in Windows, a wrong click and I lost my card game. This is the point were I entirely disagree with you. Expectations that might look "unreasonable" to you today, may be the standard tomorrow. SL No, what looks unreasonable to me today is, well, unreasonable today. See your point. I, OTOH, am more the one who has "visions" of what I would like to do with a computer, that's how I get the ideas for my programmes. It's an integral part of computing for me: the future is in this machine. Let's see how much of it we can make it show us. Each PC can do a lot more than it is used for. And in this context I cannot think of many things I would call "unreasonable". An Internet Baud rate of 1 GHz for the general public? Unreasonable for financial reasons, but not technical. I currently am happy each time a file transfer comes in with more than 1 KB/s - and this is "unreasonably slow" I think, giving another twitch to this word. SL Tomorrow is another day. People have unreasonable expectations *today* for SL what computers can do *today*. People expect computers to sing, dance, play SL the fiddle, fart in the wind, do their taxes, and play a mean game of checkers SL all without them doing a thing. No, ain't gonna happen. You are being sarcastic. I have seen computers opening windows curtains at the clap of a hand, or turn up/down the volume of the background music; a computerized bathroom which had a touch panle and I had no clue how to flush the toilet. Everything conceivable is doable (I don't know whether this bathroom would have farted in the wind, though), but it is just too complicated. Apart from being "unreasonably" expensive, I mean. SL Computers are one of the most complex, if not the most complex machine in SL use by the general population. I agree with you here. SL Now, people are expecting to use this very complex machine with *NO* SL training at all! That's not true, you are thinking balckwhite. I need training to operate a car, and every secretary gets trained including comptuer courses. However, the amount of training that is necessary can be "reasonably" reduced - so why insist on leaving it the way it is? I do believe things should be simplified if possible. I love to be lazy while enjoying the fruits of civilization. SL and they expect to be able to use the computer with no training at SL all. SL *THAT* is the unreasonable expectation. That *would* be unreasonable, but people don't expect that. People don't expect that any new member of mankind can go to toilet without training. at Bank A today?") as an example. Keyboards are one of these things nobody wants to use in the future. SL Love that prediction. You know, there are a slew of people
Re[3]: OT: Computer Philosophy (was: Re[2]: THE BAT! Will it be a newsreader option ?)
Hallo Marck, On Saturday, October 30, 1999, 7:22:24 PM (GMT+0800), Marck D. Pearlstone wrote: Well, the OS is software in my vocabulary, so you are actually saying you agree with me? :- SL No, OS does not equal software. The same software on 6 different SL OSs could yield 6 different levels of performance based on the OS. SL Software runs on an OS. MDP Hmm. By strict definition, of course the OS is software - MDP I'm just engaging in some terminological pedantry. Ignore me. You know MDP it makes sense. ;-) I think Steve and I were talking about different things here, as the OS alone does not do much; you need applications. ;-) I agree with you here. But that does not prevent me from being frustrated at times. Even in Windows, a wrong click and I lost my card game. SL It worked as expected. For me I would be frustrated at *me*. MDP Very true! Computers are not the source of frustration. It is an MDP individual's own ineptitude that provides it. You are both right, but still I am human and I get frustrated when the programme does something else than I want it to do. See my other mail. SL Now, would I want the computer to somehow have programming to try SL to second guess me in this regard? No. Never, ever, ever, EVER, SL would I want that. Sure, I lost an hour of headbanging but that MDP I couldn't agree more. Actually, I could. Okay. I agree more. I agree with you guys here, absolutely. Still, the situation would have been called "frustrating" for me. It was such a simple thing, hey we all know this: the moment I read that the thing didn't print, I thought of course, take the redirect out. It's easy for an oputsider to see; pbasically it is the same thing as the "missing semicolon" example I brought up earlier in this threat. I guess we only have different definition of "frustrating". ;-) That *would* be unreasonable, but people don't expect that. People don't expect that any new member of mankind can go to toilet without training. SL Incorrect, they do expect to use a computer with no training at SL all. Just look at the number of computer stores that boast that SL you can take their computer home, plug it in and turn it on. SL Viola', it works! MDP Completely and utterly true. It *is* a just small percentage of the MDP millions of computer owners and users that have actually put any MDP effort or time into training, let alone bothered to RTFM! I disagree with you very much. You live in the computer world, both of you, and don't see what is going on "out here". In our office, we have two kinds of regular training for the staff: 1.) Sales Training, 2.) Computer Training (which is centered around MS Office urrg). No secretary will be employed unless she has "sufficient" computer knowledge, and computer schools open up like crazy. And on it goes. SL Computers are *NOT* complicated. Women, now that is a complicated SL piece of equipment! MDP ROFLOL sigh speechless g -- Cheers, Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 using an Intel Celeron 366 Mhz, 128MB RAM
Re[5]: check mail for all not working?
Hi Andrew, on Friday, November 05, 1999, 5:36:12 AM GMT+0800, Andrew Brown wrote: CR Using just the blue "check emails" button checks only the first CR account here and the keys alt+f2 checks all 5 again. PE no it does not here. :( thats what i reported... AB I have had the same problem, intermittently, since I upgraded to 1.36. AB It seems to be related to using specific network settings for each AB account. That's correct. I check five accounts with no problem, but have only one account as my "DUN account". The other have "Use Account-specific Network settings" UNchecked. AB I have to do that, becasue if I don't, and do a mail check AB without a pre-existent DUN connection, for some reason the Bat 1.36 AB insists on dialing up an ISP which is nowhere set as the default on my AB system. Since all my various ISPs now have anti-spamming rules in place, AB if I ccess the wrong one, I can't send mail through the normal SMTP AB gateways. Usually they just require you to check POP mail first before they let you use the SMTP server. Otherwise complain to your ISP: they cannot force you to connect via their DUN, you have the right to chose a cheaper poss. It's really up to you how you connect into your account. Or do they give you the phone connection for free? If they do not budge, just set the SMTP server in the accounts to another one completely unrelated, but nevertheless without this anti-spamming rule. -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[4]: Filtering mail arriving with a given bcc insertion to a given mail directory
Hi tracer, on Saturday, November 06, 1999, 11:15:32 PM GMT+0800, tracer wrote: t Saturday, November 06, 1999 t Hello Douglas, t Saturday, Saturday, November 06, 1999, you wrote: MDP The whole point of BCC is that messages addressed with it arrive from MDP POP servers without it, so it won't be present to be filtered upon, MDP not even in the kludges. Douglas I see your point. This is true even when one's bcc is to one's self. Douglas (Somehow it feels like that should be different, but how could it? Douglas Life is full of surprises). Douglas I should have explained from the beginning that the idea was to: Douglas 1).- have a copy of some what I send come back to me. It was my own Douglas email address that I wanted to appear in the bcc location of Douglas correspondence written from certain accounts and have it come back to Douglas the same or another account. Then, Douglas 2).- I wanted to filter those messages into into a given folder of one Douglas or more accounts. (You can filter each inbox and each folder, for that Douglas matter, right)? Perhaps I should just filter all messages from (not Douglas to) myself to a given folder, whether they originated as a bcc or not Douglas -since that's all I can do. I do the same, bcc'ing to myself. The way I filter is, by sender: if the sender (of the incoming mail) is myself, then goto folder "bcc copies". Very easy. :-) -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[4]: searching
Hi Juergen, on Monday, November 15, 1999, 2:09:28 AM GMT+0800, Juergen Frisch wrote: I sent this message first some hours earlier. But since I did not get it from the list nor did it appear in the archive I send it a second time. I received it twice. :-) -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: wanted feature wish-list request
Hi Alex, on Monday, November 15, 1999, 1:01:26 AM GMT+0800, Alex Sanyukovitch wrote: R the option to move messages to another folder after x days... R (and offcourse the possibility to select that folder :-) ) R it already exists for deleting (folder properties - keep messages in R the base for), but I'd like it for moving to... AS There is a good workaround: just set an option "Create a copy of AS message in folder" in Filters-Actions to copy message to any folder AS and option to delete messages from first folder after x days. But doesn't this mean you have all messages twice on your HD until the first version is deleted (after x days)? -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
SOT: Anti-virus Programmes (was:Re[12]: 1.36 install once more...)
Hi tracer, on Monday, November 15, 1999, 2:53:23 PM GMT+0800, tracer wrote: t In your case I would either get a good antivirus program (and that t means NOT MCAFEE or NORTON) and run them to clean your system up. Interesting, as I thought these were good. Anyway, I am using PC-Cillin (registered and paid for), which I update about every week, and would like to know your opinion on this. Also, do you know whether it kills CIH so that I don't need the programme you (illegally ;-)) attached to your posting? -- Thanks and best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.37 Beta/3 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Registration Question
Hello TBUDL, my friend registered TB but did not get the registration details as he requests below. As my own registration was so long ago, I don't remember whether I got an email with the Key and Checksum or how did it work. Kindly take a look at his question below and advise. Thanks, Thomas. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ===8=This is a forwarded message== Hi Thomas, I have registered the Bat again on Monday. This time I did not get the bad credit crad information from the Bat until today. How can I get my "The Bat, Key" "Checksum" and my possward on the register program box. Or I just have to wait until The Bat send me my "key, checksum, and password". I can't use this email now. Thanks Ken ===8===End of original message text=== -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: Registration Question
Hi tracer, on Wednesday, November 17, 1999, 2:32:10 PM GMT+0800, tracer wrote: Thomas my friend registered TB but did not get the registration details as he Thomas requests below. As my own registration was so long ago, I don't Thomas remember whether I got an email with the Key and Checksum or how did Thomas it work. Thomas Kindly take a look at his question below and advise. t when you receive the registration email with codes the bat recognises t that and essentially all I had to do was enter the password... Thanks, but the problem is he never received that email. He has been waiting since Monday. So if he registers again, CIF Net will prbably charge the credit card a second time. The email with the codes is supposed to come within a few minutes, right? -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.37 Beta/3 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
%Attachment
Hi tracer, on Thursday, November 18, 1999, 12:53:30 PM GMT+0800, tracer wrote: t has anyone got an idea what the %attachment thing is supposed to do?? t It always tells me none and it would have been logical if would have t listed attached files It's supposed to work in the Print templates and would print the attachments. I have never tried it, though, because I print the attachments seperately (I look at them in, for example, Word, and then print them from there if I want to). -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.37 Beta/3 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[4]: %Cursor
Hi Jast, on Thursday, November 18, 1999, 12:50:01 PM GMT+0800, Jast wrote: Funny, what is the %Cursor command for, then? J Well, if you tab in the message, you get put to that place of course. J It is just expected that you enter the address first thing. I motion to change that. I don't need a cursor command if I have to hit TAB three or four times, or use the mouse anyway. The cursor should go were the %Cursor command says it should start. Does anybody second the motion, so we can put it on the (mysterious, as never seen or published) wish-list? -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.37 Beta/3 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: (No Subject)
Hi Steve, on Friday, November 19, 1999, 12:22:22 AM GMT+0800, Steve Lamb wrote: Steve, please don't call peoples suggestions idiotic especially when it's not necessary. SL It was. An understanding of basic UI at the level of around an AOL user SL would be all that is required to deduce why the cursor is in the header field. Wow, are you calling me an "AOL user"? (Please help me someone: isn't this an insult?) g The fact that you felt that way just shows up yourself more than the person you indirectly insulted. SL I get it. Attack the person, not the idea. Gee, to think, I had it wrong SL this whole time in attacking the idea, not the person. Thanks for the SL clarification. LOL You are so automated and mechanical in your approach to usability issues that it's unbelievable. I have no wish to have any exchanges with you on the issue. SL I am so automated and mechanical because I'm right. When you get to a SL certain point you come to understand that most, if not all roads, lead to the SL same place. Steve, again: you see this from the POV of someone who lives in the comuter world. You are right from that POV. However, most people don't live there. Especially you as the compu-expert have the possibility to change something for the average user, if you only listen. Just for the benefit of the minds that exhibit more flexibility and amicability to suggestion: SL IE, those who haven't thought it out. Deja-vu? Comnputer Philosophy? (No, Marck, don't worry, I'm not going to start again.) b) If one invokes/creates a new mail message using the address book. [...] far. That's consistency to ones detriment. We are thinking, people here. SL Then think, Ali, don't just jump on the bandwagon for a ride and disengage SL your brain. Steve, hoinestly, I cannot figure how this is "attacking the idea" and not the person. Anyway, I think it is you who is jumping on the bandwaggon (of those who think that users are stupid and cannot even go to the header to fill in additional recipients iof they want to). SL Tell me, are *all* of the addresses you've ever used in the SL addressbook? You've never added one by hand after using the addressbook? SL You've never added one by hand from the address book after using it? Weren't you the one who said in another thread that you don't want the machine to "think for you" and make suggestions? So, when I give the command "go to somehwere in the message body" and the cursor still goes to the header, is it not thinking for me? SL Why put it there? Because the program has no way to determine if you're SL completely finished with entering addresses or if you're just done adding SL addresses from the addressbook/macros. Exactly. That's why the cursor should go to were I tell it to and not double-guess. SL The logical place for the cursor after that point is in the SL headers section. The logical place for the cursor is to be were I tell it to be. (Am I repeating myself?) SL Furthermore, just because you've entered addresses doesn't mean that the SL other functions near those fields are completed. Right. So I want the programme to double-guess instead of just following my command. SL It is not consistency to one's detriment, it is logical consistency where SL an otherwise annoying assumption by the machine would be made. You are advocating assumption, should you not have noticed. -- Ciao, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.37 Beta/3 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: (No Subject)
Hi Steve, on Friday, November 19, 1999, 1:58:33 AM GMT+0800, Steve Lamb wrote: Simple : Not everyone has this allegedly logical stepwise approach. I tend to prefer this stepwise approach and this is why I have no need for no subject error messages or reminders to enter an address, but this is besides the point. SL No, it is the point. People should learn to use the program, not the SL program to babysit the user. This is the point where I disagree! One of a programme's first objectives is to be user-friendly. You don't get the point do you? I didn't really expect it. It was you who wrote it anyway. sigh SL Oh, I get the point. You don't get mine. I don't pussyfoot around. In SL all our conversations I have stated that repeatedly and I don't apologize for SL it. I really dislike all the political, buttkissing BS when it comes to SL getting things done. We noticed that g. The question is, what are the things that we want to get done? Vocabulary like "idiotic" don't help to figure this out. SL But to spend so much time and effort to say the same thing in a "polite" SL and "non-threatening" manner is just wasted time and effort. I doubt that. Because when you use words like "idiotic" it takes seventy-five posting in three threads to get the feeling it creates out of the way. SL Get a thicker skin or get out of the way. Sorry for being human. Did you know that this list is also for people who might not have the self-confidence that you are so blessed with? - I was the one whose idea you called idiotic, and my skin is thick enough. Someone else, well, might have just left the list and TB too. Sometimes it is necessary to be "political" and to keep an amicable atmostphere in a society in order to protect the ones that are not so strong (or not so self-confident, you get the point). SL Since a completely customizable UI is not obtainable the best one can do SL is create an UI that has the least number of internal inconsistencies and is SL as logical as possible. Those who like the UI will then be able to SL effectively and efficiently learn the logic and begin to make assumptions SL about areas they are unfamiliar with. This will let them work faster, ask SL less questions, use the program in a more powerful manner and get their work SL done. I agree with that. I have learned that when I tell the cursor to go to point A in the body, it will ignore my command and go to the header, because it assumes I'm an idiot and I may want to add a second recipient. -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.37 Beta/3 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: (No Subject)
Hi Steve, on Friday, November 19, 1999, 5:58:21 AM GMT+0800, Steve Lamb wrote: People like Steve Lamb make it so hard for beginners to stay in this list. SL Beginners shouldn't really be making suggestions. Pu-leaze, Steve. And by the way, with 21 years of computer programming, I don't consider myself a beginner, and I did make that initial suggestion. SL Furthermore everyone is a beginner exactly once. I don't like SL things that are geared for beginners at the exclusion of those who SL aren't because of that. How about things that are geared for skilled people at the exclusion of beginners? Hey, this is list is in-lieu of a proper documentation. So it is for the beginners as well. It is the arrogance of the skilled. As a beginner you just don't dare to bring a "silly" problem. And this is not useful for the further spreading of this good client. Didn't it happen so often in history of the mind, that "idiotic" ideas opened new horizons. SL Yes, they did. Normally, though, such ideas aren't ones that are rehashed SL and argued over every time a new person comes into the forum. For example... [list of absolutely valid points skipped] SL These things, among others, are what makes it hard for the experienced SL users to stay on this, and other, lists. They are topics that keep coming up SL ever 3-6 weeks with the new people. This is a forum for new people as well. -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.37 Beta/3 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[3]: keyboard or software
Hi Bernhard, on Friday, November 19, 1999, 5:46:58 PM GMT+0800, Bernhard Kaiser wrote: [marked text in Reply window does not disappear when "delete" or "backspace" is hit] TF Works here with both the Delete button as well as the Backspace TF button. Did you try Backspace? BK Yes; it didn't either. Only the menu commands work. Maybe someone with a German keyboard should answer. We had another case where the Bat! behaved differently depending on whether you use a European keyboard. -- Ciao, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.38 Beta/1 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: %Cursor
Hi Paula, on Friday, November 19, 1999, 6:24:10 PM GMT+0800, Paula Ford wrote: I don't even know what an MUA is. PF Me neither and it's not listed in the Webopaedia. Internet search turned PF up: [lovable a well-researched list skipped] PF So, I'm guessing it's (E-)Mail User Agent and not Rotuma chiefs that PF have been "doing this since there have been MUAs". ROTFL :-D Let's fill in the blanks: SL Of course a new message is going to have you enter the header SL information first. Mail User Agents have been doing this since SL there *have* been Mail User Agents. [legal remark: this is a forged quotation. Steve never wrote this.] I am not sure whether this makes sense to me. I have called my email programme Mail Client, Mail Prog, and other things that are not fit for a user list targeting families, but never a Mail User Agent. OTOH, I only entered Cyberspace four years ago (when the first ISP opened in Thailand), so what do *I* know. :-) -- Cheers, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.38 Beta/1 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: (SOT) Moo-ah, Met-ah, Med-ah and all related things...
Hi Alexander, on Tuesday, November 23, 1999, 9:23:01 AM GMT+0800, Alexander V. Kiselev wrote: [...] Your machine is three days fast and I can never find your messages until after someone has replied already and I go looking. Kindly check. ;-) -- Thanks, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.38 Beta/1 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: (No Subject)
Hi Paula, on Saturday, November 20, 1999, 8:38:11 AM GMT+0800, Paula Ford wrote: It has nothing to do with %cursor macro, while is reasonable wish. But I'm afraid it is hardly implementable, while it does work so when you hit reply. PF Well, it would seem that it is implementable, since it works that way PF with Replies. This is why I was wondering whether we should put it on that mnysterious wish-list. Anyway, I domn't want to start the whole thread all over again. Suppose i write a template for message which will always have to addressees, constant one and variable one and a constant beginning of a subject, and still want cursor to be at certain place in the message after I'll finish filling in the variable address and subject. What should I do, if I will have no possibility of using %cursor macro? PF Irreconcilable user preferences. This means there should be two seperate %Cursor macros: 1.) Where should the curosr be when I start the message (for example in the ehader, or in the body)? 2.) Once I tab into the body, where should the cursor be then? Number 2 is the current %Cursor command. Number 1 is the candidate for the wish-list. -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.38 Beta/1 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: [OT) Discussion list netiquette [was Re: (No Subject)]
Hallo Ali, On Sunday, November 21, 1999, 8:34:02 PM (GMT+0800), Ali Martin wrote: Ali c) If someone makes a suggestion that is their own selfish desire I Ali really don't think the developers at Ritlabs will suddenly implement Ali it, especially on this very basis, unless it's a compelling and truly Ali useful suggestion. So why bully them? Furthermore, I genuinely don't Ali think anyone who suggests changes to TB!, on this discussion list, are Ali doing it out of selfish desire. The fact that they post the suggestion Ali on this discussion list is testimony to this. They post it for Ali discussion and to see how others may feel about it. possible, but anyway suggestions are useful but on the other hand some things are 'illogical' to anyone who has worked with computers a lot. AM There are many ways to make this known, or indicate this, without AM being abusive in the process or hurting the 'suggestors' feelings. I think TBUDL is also a forum for suggestions. May the be "illogical" or "idiotic", I for one will continue to use my creativity, even it is not always as good - or development-improving, for want of a better word - as I thought. As a The Bat! User, I bring up ideas for Discussion on this List (capitalizations intended), and encourage everyone to do that, too. Even if some ideas may be "illogical" or even called "selfish" or "idiotic". And, Tracer,working with computers and knowing internet stuff (RFC etc) is not the same. I have been on the Internet for four years, spending most of that time just using email and browsing the net, thus still being a newbie in many respects, while I worked with computers at time when a cubboard-sized machine in a clima-controlled room had so little power that my home PC of today would have been called a supercomputer. The whole world connected via an "International Network of Computers" - now that was an illogical idea back then. Read too much Sci-Fi? I do agree with Ali that nicer phrases can be just as clear. I don't think my idea was idiotic or selfish, but I have learned that it is against common practice. That's fine, I can live with that. -- Cheers, Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.38 Beta/2 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 using an Intel Celeron 366 Mhz, 128MB RAM -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
MS Exchange (was:Wish List)
Hi Hal, on Monday, November 22, 1999, 8:19:47 AM GMT+0800, Hal wrote: H One thing I would like to see is the ability to use Microsoft Exchange, so I can H take The Bat to work and trash Outlook. We use MS Exchange at work, and I am using The Bat! here as well. One problem: I cannot use our SMTP server but have to use an external one. When I use our SMTP server, messages get sent to addresses within our domain (within the company), but not to the outside world. I don't know why. -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.38 Beta/1 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: TB and MS Exchange (was:Wish List)
Dear Syafril, I just checked and was told we use MS Exchange version 5.5 Just tried to send a message to one of my accounts via our SMTP server, and the below is what happened. When I use my address book and the address I send to is "mozart [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without quotation marks), the error message will say that mozart is not recognized, i.e. seeing only the "Real Name" not even the email address. I feel that the Exchange server means "not recognized in this domain" in both cases, and never tries to send it into cyberspace. Most of the time, however, I do not even get an error message. By mistake, I forgot to reset the SMTP seerver after these tests before sending this post, and my email just disappeared. (I am resending this post now after adding this paragrph.) So I can send messages only to users within the domain "aafi.com.tw" with The Bat!. Colleagues using Outlook have no problems sending to the outside world. Something wrong in my TB settings, as you said you have tested it successfully? Thanks help, Thomas. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ===8==This is a forwarded message= From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, November 22, 1999, 2:18:56 PM Subject: Undeliverable: Fwd: Re: MS Exchange (was:Wish List) Your message To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Fwd: Re: MS Exchange (was:Wish List) Sent:Mon, 22 Nov 1999 14:23:07 +0800 did not reach the following recipient(s): [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Mon, 22 Nov 1999 14:25:36 +0800 The recipient name is not recognized The MTS-ID of the original message is: c=TW;a= ;p=AAFI;l=NT19911220625XDRRSLY5 MSEXCH:IMS:AAFI:AAFI:NT1 0 (000C05A6) Unknown Recipient ===8===End of original message text=== -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: TB and MS Exchange (was:Wish List)
Hi Thomas, on Monday, November 22, 1999, 2:54:45 PM GMT+0800, Thomas Fernandez wrote: TF Most of the time, however, I do not even get an error message. By TF mistake, I forgot to reset the SMTP seerver after these tests before TF sending this post, and my email just disappeared. (I am resending this TF post now after adding this paragrph.) Correction: I got the error message - just a bit later than expected. -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.38 Beta/2 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: TB and MS Exchange (was:Wish List)
Hi Syafril, on Monday, November 22, 1999, 4:11:40 PM GMT+0800, Syafril Hermansyah wrote: TF When I use my address book and the address I send to is "mozart TF [EMAIL PROTECTED]" (without quotation marks), the error TF message will say that mozart is not recognized, i.e. seeing only TF the "Real Name" not even the email address. SH That'snothappentome. I can send (for example) SH To: Syafril Hermansyah[EMAIL PROTECTED] SH no problem (note: I set accepted domain = dutaint.co.id). I noticed that when I send message from my address within the domain to an internet address outside, the message just disappr\ears. If I send it from another address (this one, for example) to an internet address outside our domain, I receive an error message. TF I feel that the Exchange server means "not recognized in this TF domain" in both cases, and never tries to send it into cyberspace. SH This is setting in "Relay Control" at Internet Mail Connector. SH The default setting for Exchange MTA is to accept or reject message SH came to them, if match the domain list = accepted otherwise rejected. It does not reject the server name. It just doesn't recognize an email address as Real Name user@domain but uses Real Name as user under its own domain. If there is no Real Name, it uses the full address as user name under its own domain. Thus it says "this user does not exist here", which is the only reason for rejection. It does not reject because the domain of the recipient is not accepted. SH In my case all message came from POP3 or IMAP set to route via my SH Relay Host (i.e. My Mdaemon Mail Server). Please check to the routing SH table in Internet Mail Connector. I have no problem with the POP server, only with the SMTP server. TF So I can send messages only to users within the domain TF "aafi.com.tw" with The Bat!. Colleagues using Outlook have no TF problems sending to the outside world. SH Outlook with Exchange transport ? Of course no problem. g But I still advertise how wonderful TB is, especially for those who have a private email address in addition to their company email on the Exchange server... TF Something wrong in my TB settings, as you said you have tested it TF successfully? SH Yes, see header of this message, I send this message via Exchange. OK, clarify for the stupid guy (that's me): Is there something wrong with my settings in TB, or is there something wrong with the settings of the Exchange server? -- Thanks your help, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.38 Beta/2 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: %cursor was: Re[2]: (No Subject)
Hallo Oleg, On Monday, November 22, 1999, 8:57:38 PM (GMT+0800), Oleg Zalyalov wrote: It has nothing to do with %cursor macro, while is reasonable wish. But I'm afraid it is hardly implementable, while it does work so when you hit reply. PF Well, it would seem that it is implementable, since it works that way PF with Replies. OZ What I meant is that when you do reply the message it is clear that OZ most probably you will not want to add anything to to, cc, bcc and OZ subject fields by hands, and cursor should be placed to the text edit OZ area. When you create a new message or forward it is not so clear. Unless you have already %To (and maybe %Cc and %Bcc) and %Subject macros in your template. OZ Anyway, there should be another independent switch and not the change OZ of %cursor macro functionality. You mean a switch like a %SkipHeader macro? Disclaimer: This is a question, not a suggestion. ;-) -- Cheers, Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.38 Beta/2 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 using an Intel Celeron 366 Mhz, 128MB RAM -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[3]: TB and MS Exchange (was:Wish List)
Hallo tracer, On Monday, November 22, 1999, 9:28:06 PM (GMT+0800), tracer wrote: t Thomas, could you try sending it to your email address without the Mozart t node... I will try that in the morning when I'm back in the office, but I don't expect it to be any different. I also tried it with this ibm.net email address, same result. I have contacted the sysadmin with Syafril's information about the Internet Mail Connector. He is not in-house, though, and I expect it to take some time until he comes. Will let you now. -- Cheers, Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.38 Beta/2 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 using an Intel Celeron 366 Mhz, 128MB RAM -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: %cursor was: Re[2]: (No Subject)
Hi Steve, on Tuesday, November 23, 1999, 2:33:19 AM GMT+0800, Steve Lamb wrote: SL Monday, November 22, 1999, 6:15:22 AM, Thomas wrote: You mean a switch like a %SkipHeader macro? SL That would work. I'd actually like to see the current behavior of the SL reply template changed so that it, too, does not skip the header input but SL allow something like this to let the user decide. OK, so by default the cursor should always go into the header, even if there is data (TO/Subject/...) already. Unless there is a %SkipHeader macro. This defines the default as opposite to what I was thinking of, but I get your point. However, what if there is no To recipient but a %SkipHeader macro, should the %SkipHeader macro be ignored? Or how to you suggest to deal with that situation? -- Thanks for expl, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.38 Beta/3 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: Mysterious wish-list
Hi Leif, can I ask whether the developers have a copy? If yes, maybe they might send it to you. Did you ask them? If they don't have a copy, what's the point of the wish-list. On Tuesday, November 23, 1999, 8:12:18 AM GMT+0800, Leif Gregory wrote: LG I've e-mailed him twice directly so far to try and get a copy of the LG wishlist so that I could post it to the TBUDL FAQ page. I haven't LG gotten a response from him yet. LG On Sunday, November 21, 1999, at 1:28 you wrote: PF Does "currently" mean that Alex is not working on it for now or PF that he's abandoned the project? Does anyone have the last version PF that was posted to the list? If so, I'd appreciate your e-mailing PF me a copy. -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.38 Beta/3 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: Threading
Hallo Ali, On Tuesday, November 23, 1999, 7:16:40 PM (GMT+0800), Ali Martin wrote: AM snip AM Here it is attached for you and all the other new subscribers who AM haven't yet gotten a copy. Wouldn't it be neat to include this in the .zip file when people download TB from the web site? Or post it on the web site otherwise for anyone interested to download? - Just an idea. AM OK, I could rest it in my little webspace and provide a link in the AM future. Hey now, that is very nice of you! Maybe a hint with the URL could even be hidden somewhere on the Ritlabs page, or on the FAQ page. -- Cheers, Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.38 Beta/3 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 using an Intel Celeron 366 Mhz, 128MB RAM -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[3]: %cursor was: Re[2]: (No Subject)
Hi Jast, on Wednesday, November 24, 1999, 6:03:17 AM GMT+0800, Jast wrote: That it would. I like the idea of a template definition, just not sure if I want to fully endorse another template macro which is nothing more than a toggle that is better served, IMHO, by checkboxes on the templates. J I prefer template macros. They are more versatile (in regard to J usability - you never know what functionality you could add to a J macro) and don't take up window space if you don't use it. Really, I J don't like long option lists. Of course, macros should be well J documented... I think a macro makes sense if you have inoput, such as an email address in the %TO= macro. If a marco is in truth just a yes/no switch, as this %SkipHeader would be, I'd agree with Steve and would prefer it to be a checkbox. Same holds true, by the way, for the %Singlere macro: IMHO it should be a checkbox. -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.38 Beta/3 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: Original Message Date and time query
Hi Ali, on Wednesday, November 24, 1999, 7:41:17 AM GMT+0800, Ali Martin wrote: AM Isn't the macro for the original message date and time be taken from AM the Kludges of the message sent ad verbatim? Why is the time AM converted to my time zone when I'm replying. Wouldn't the recipient AM prefer the time as he/she sent it? I would prefer it to always be in GMT (as pine does it), but I have seen from my colleagues that the lcoal time is more appreciated by the average user. I think we discussed this on this list about last month or so. The result was the suggestion to add "GMT+" hours to the Reply Template (see above). I was hoping that TB, which adds/subtracts the figure according to your local computer setting and thus finds the local time, could automatize this as well. Here is a suggestion: Add a %GMT macro, which would should the difference between your local time zone and GMT. -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.38 Beta/3 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: Surprise...
Hi Ian, on Wednesday, November 24, 1999, 3:50:14 PM GMT+0800, Ian Gore wrote: And the three letters were... ali. Since TB! has autocompletion based on name it is, IMHO, very dangerously and very incorrectly introducing false and misleading data into its own database. Clearly Ali Martin's address is not [EMAIL PROTECTED] yet that is what my TB! completes to. IG I've been bitten by that one too! On the other hand I like IG autocompletion. Any suggestions (other than "be more careful")? How about: "check before you hit 'send'"? :-P -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.38 Beta/3 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: Shortcuts (was: Re: Threading)
Hi Steve, on Wednesday, November 24, 1999, 11:32:28 AM GMT+0800, Steve Lamb wrote: I'd like to try "idiot mode". However, before I do that, kindly let me know how to disable "idiot mode" again. ;-) SL Come now, figuring out how to exit it is the test to prove you're worthy SL of disabling it in the first place. ;) bg -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.38 Beta/3 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: Original Message Date and time query
Hi Alexander, on Wednesday, November 24, 1999, 10:56:56 PM GMT+0800, Alexander V. Kiselev wrote: I would prefer it to always be in GMT (as pine does it), but I have seen from my colleagues that the lcoal time is more appreciated by the average user. AVK And I'll explain you why... AVK Suppose I worked hard all day teaching students, then returned AVK back home and composed a couple of message to a mailing list AVK (about 5-00PM my local time). Then suppose some American AVK like Steve Lamb (just for example) decided to reply to these. His AVK message will then start with: AVK ., 1-00 PM, Alexander V. Kiselev wrote AVK And suppose the head of our staff is the member of the same AVK mailing list In that case I would think your head of staff would know the meaning of GMT, wouldn't s/he? ;-) I think we discussed this on this list about last month or so. The result was the suggestion to add "GMT+" hours to the Reply Template (see above). AVK Yup, this is a workaround of course, but this doesn't solve the AVK problem itself I'd say. But it clarifies what time is meant. You sent your message at 10:56pm my time - but do you know that it is "my time", or does it look like it could be "your time"? And do you know where "my time" is? A "time zone indicator" is needed in international email, I think. And for me, "09:00 GMT+0800" and "01:00 GMT" have the same meaning. No time zone indicator causes confusion. With a time zone indicator, it really doesn't matter whether you use Local Time or GMT. The average user prefers Local Time. Here is a suggestion: Add a %GMT macro, which would should the difference between your local time zone and GMT. AVK Better add a %LTIME macro that would default to the local time AVK (this is how the %OTIME works currently), and modify the AVK %OTIME macro to show the time as it was stated in the AVK message headers, *without* the timezone correction. Agree; better than my suggestion. Still it should show the time zone, in order to avoid confusion. Imagine this lsit: some people prefer %LTIME, otehr prefer %OTIME, how would you know who uses which? -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.38 Beta/3 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: Idiot Mode
Hi Markus,
on Wednesday, November 24, 1999, 11:46:18 PM GMT+0800, Markus Gloede wrote:
Ctrl+Shift+Alt+/ (toggle idiot mode on/off) will take "Folder" off
the menu in the main screen, and some of the choices out of
Account/...
MG BTW, that's yet another shortcut that doesn't work on some keyboards
MG (e.g. on a German keyboard the "/" is on the shifted "7", also on
MG that key is the left curly bracket "{" which may be reached by
MG pressing Ctrl-Alt-7).
So Germans have no way of achieving idiot mode?
--
Best regards,
Thomas.
Message reply created with The Bat! 1.38 Beta/3
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998
on a Pentium II/350 MHz.
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Re[4]: Idiot Mode
Hi Roel, on Thursday, November 25, 1999, 11:44:19 AM GMT+0800, Roel wrote: TF So Germans have no way of achieving idiot mode? R look at it this way: everyone using a non-american keyboard is R considerd to be 'not an idiot' :-) (probably cause we figured out to R type on a non-american keyboard :-) ) R or the other way... everyone with an american keyboard... R (no offense meant) :-) I am using a Chinese keyboard . :-) The keys are printed in four colours: green, red and blue for Chinese characters and radicals (part-characters, of which most characters are composed). Black is for latin letters. They are printed with the Amercian lay-out, but that doesn't make it an American keyboard. -- Ciao, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.38 Beta/3 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: The TBUDL
Hi Hal, on Thursday, November 25, 1999, 9:42:23 AM GMT+0800, Hal wrote: Don't use the automatic reply address: Fred Huddle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Why not? Use: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Why? PF I think the suggestion was made to someone who had posted a new message PF (started a new thread) by replying to another message, which makes the PF threading goofy sometimes. H Actually it was for creating filtering rules. I find filtering works if I get rid of H the sender's name and the '' but not if I don't. I filter on either. My filter for TBUDL looks for the string TBUDL to be present in Sender. I can be in Name, Email, whatever. You can also filter on dutaint in sender or kludges, if you prefer. - Over here, it all works. :-) -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.38 Beta/3 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[6]: Idiot Mode
Hi tracer, on Friday, November 26, 1999, 9:39:27 AM GMT+0800, tracer wrote: Thomas I am using a Chinese keyboard . :-) t I thought that meant a special mouse with character pad (g) No, it's a standard 104-key keyboard. You toggle between red, green, blue and black printing on the keys with crtl-shift or crtl-space. (But I'm only using the black printing - English). ;-) -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.38 Beta/6 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: TBUDL@thebat.dutaint.com is not a moderator or member of this list.
Hi Deryk, on Wednesday, December 08, 1999, 5:53:06 AM GMT+0800, Deryk Lister wrote: DL Wow, I seem to be getting this message a lot, that's at least 3 now. DL Anyone else having this? Everybody. I think it's a new feature. ;-) -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.38 Beta/6 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: Upgrade 1.35 -------- 1.36
Hi NDS8nz, on Wednesday, December 08, 1999, 9:57:24 AM GMT+0800, NDS8nz wrote: N Would like to know if I can upgrade my registered version 1.35 to 1.36 without a N problem. N Thanks, N Lars O. Brouwer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] There is absolutely no problem. Just put download the thebat.zip file (and probably the lng.zip file) from ftp.ritlabs.com/pub/the_bat, and unzip into the The BAt! directory. Close the Bat and reopen it. All your mail etc will be there, with the new version of TB. -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.38 Beta/6 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[3]: Upgrading, backuping/restoring, account folder structure (was: Re: Upgrade 1.35 -------- 1.36)
Hi Stefan, on Thursday, December 09, 1999, 3:49:47 AM GMT+0800, Stefan Tanurkov wrote: ST This is fixed in the today's revision of 1.38. Please feel free to ST download it :-) I have jsut downloaded the third official version of 1.38 - should we mention download date and when when we report any bugs? ;-) -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.38 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[5]: Upgrading, backuping/restoring, account folder structure (was: Re: Upgrade 1.35 -------- 1.36)
Hi Douglas, on Thursday, December 09, 1999, 4:04:25 PM GMT+0800, Douglas Hinds wrote: TF I have jsut downloaded the third official version of 1.38... DH Third? I'm downloading now from: DH http://www.ritlabs.com/the_bat/beta.html DH And the site says: Download The Bat! 1.38 Release second revision DH Am I at the wrong site or is the text behinds the times? I downloaded two different ones from that site yesterday. Today I downloaded form the official site ftp.ritlabs.com/pub/the_bat/the_bat.exe, so not the beta site, because Stefan mumbled something about a new helpfile. On the beta site, you get only the executable, whereas the official site has a self-extracting file. Creation times of the 1.38 that I have downloaded: yesterday 03:xx, yesterday 08:xx, yesterday 16:51. Times according to ftp server. -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.38 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: The Bat E-mail Client
Hi John, on Thursday, December 09, 1999, 4:12:20 PM GMT+0800, John W Bollier, Jr. wrote: JWBJ Two problems: JWBJ 1. . When I click on a " link " in an e-mail, I get an error code JWBJ stating that it is not associated with an applicationHow do I JWBJ associate a link so clicking on it will open/transport me to that JWBJ web page in by browser?? I am really lost on this one.. This is a Windows questions, and somebody else better answer this. JWBJ 2.. Filters and Filteringhow do I set one up...from scratch JWBJ I do not know anything about this and I am lost as how to even JWBJ start..Some examples would really help...say mail from "Lubna" JWBJ to be in "Lubna" folder. In the main menu (at the top of the main window), click on Acctount / Sorting Office/Filters. Highlight Inbox and click on New. Name the rule "Lubna". Source folder will be inbox, and Move Messages to Folder has a little icon behind it. Click on this icon, then click on New, and just name the folder "Lubna". Next step: Under filtering strings, insert the name of email address under Strings, Location=Sender, Presence=Yes. Click Close, and any email from Lubna will go right into her folder. You can later move folders around by dragging them while holding the ALT key down. -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.38 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: The Bat E-mail Client
Hi John, on Thursday, December 09, 1999, 4:12:20 PM GMT+0800, John W Bollier, Jr. wrote: JWBJ 2.. Filters and Filteringhow do I set one up...from scratch JWBJ I do not know anything about this and I am lost as how to even JWBJ start..Some examples would really help...say mail from "Lubna" JWBJ to be in "Lubna" folder. Oh, there is also anotehr (probably easier) possibility: When you have an email from Lubna, highlight it and then go to Message / Specials / Create Filter in the main menu. Follow the instructions. -- Have fun, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.38 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: two small Problems ...
Hallo Clemens, On Thursday, December 09, 1999, 10:22:27 PM (GMT+0800), Clemens 'Gullevek' Schwaighofer wrote: CGS Well I have one small problem and one question. [...] CGS I don't want the german help, I want the original english one. AFAIK The Bat looks for the file the-bat.hlp in the The Bat! directory. CGS My second question is. Are there any keystroke shortcut lists CGS available. I searched all the help but I didn't find any. I use The CGS Bat every day, but I know only a handful of keyborad shortcuts. The list is in the FAQ, http://www.pcwize.com/thebat/faq.shtml. -- Cheers, Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.38 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 using an Intel Celeron 366 Mhz, 128MB RAM -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: Hi
Hallo Przemyslaw, On Thursday, December 09, 1999, 5:40:27 AM (GMT+0800), Przemyslaw Adam Smiejek wrote: PAS I'm new here. My english is bad, but I love The Bat! so PAS I want to join this list. Welcome! -- Cheers, Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.38 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 using an Intel Celeron 366 Mhz, 128MB RAM -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: once again problem with disappering mails...
Hallo Adam, On Friday, December 10, 1999, 12:56:43 AM (GMT+0800), Adam Golebiowski wrote: AG X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.34a) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091 AG I have a problem with disappering mail, i checked for my mail one AG day and unforunately by mistake i switched off computer... the next AG day (it means today) i opened the bat and noticed one unread mail in AG inbox... when i clicked on that folder whole mail from there AG vanished... i also noticed that when I press ESC it shows number of AG mails for a while (less than a second)... anyone can help me and AG tell what`s going on and what should I do to get mails back? Upgrade to the latest veriosn (1.38) and see whether the progblem persists. I seem to recall that this problem existed in one of the earlier versions. -- Cheers, Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.38 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 using an Intel Celeron 366 Mhz, 128MB RAM -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[7]: Upgrading, backuping/restoring, account folder structure (was: Re: Upgrade 1.35 -------- 1.36)
Hi Douglas, on Friday, December 10, 1999, 5:25:34 AM GMT+0800, Douglas Hinds wrote: TF ...Today I downloaded from the official site TF ftp.ritlabs.com/pub/the_bat/the_bat.exe, ... On the beta site, you TF get only the executable, whereas the official site has a TF self-extracting file. DH Downloading that now, for the better help file. DH In that same ftp directory, do you know what the intpack.exe is? It's DH 0.1 mb bigger - could be the international version w/ added language DH support. (a guess). Good guess. It's the International Language Pack. Download it, install it, and check whether you like the Spanish Bat!. You need to download this Pack only once, it gets updated when you download the new .lng files. -- Saludos, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.38 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: Which version?
Hi Larry, on Friday, December 10, 1999, 9:49:26 AM GMT+0800, Larry Barrett wrote: LB Which version of The Bat! should be considered the most "up-to-date" LB - the one called - version 138 second revision (138e) or, the 138 LB one that is located in the download section? Thanks. Same confusion here. I go with the latest on the official download site. What's version 1.38e? -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.38 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: Upgrade 1.35 -------- 1.36
Hi Hal, on Friday, December 10, 1999, 9:42:25 AM GMT+0800, Hal wrote: H Registration code is rejected as not authentic. I just happened to be lucky and had H two computers to play with. When I bought this one (my wife got the hand-me-down) H and installed The Bat for the first time, the registration (typed from the keyboard) H was rejected and I had to go to the old computer and cut paste to a floppy. Surprises me honestly. You sure you didn't have a typo, or mixed up caps and lower-case? -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.38 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[3]: BUG in auto-format
Hi Xiangrong, on Friday, December 10, 1999, 2:06:41 PM GMT+0800, Xiangrong Fang wrote: XF While auto-format is selected, it is impossible to use manual XF line breaks. unless you use a blank line between paragraphs, XF new line will always be joined to last line (I selected XF justify on wrap and auto-format). Thus, it is impossible to XF write the following text in the bat: TF I reported the same some time ago and was told it is a feature, not a TF bug. :-( XF Who said its a feature? :( With this *feature* the auto-format is XF totally unusable! There was a long and detailled discussion about it on this list in October. Please check out the archive at http://www.mail-archive.com/tbudl@thebat.dutaint.com/. Look for subject "Autoformat". -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.38e under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: Compressing/Purging folder window
Hi Oliver, on Friday, December 10, 1999, 5:11:48 PM GMT+0800, Oliver Sturm wrote: OS 3) Open a "My Computer" window or whatever and try to continue OS working. The little status window floats above all other windows OS all the time, which is quite disturbing. I agree with you, it shouldn't stay always-on-top. Furthermore, the "cleaning up" (purging and compressing folders) takes ages (sometimes 10-15 minutes). Does that have to be so slow? -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.38e under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
