Re: [abcusers] how well supported is the overlay operator
On 12 Nov 2004, at 02:16, Richard Robinson wrote: On Thu, Nov 11, 2004 at 11:23:59PM +, Phil Taylor wrote: On 11 Nov 2004, at 20:32, Atte André Jensen wrote: Hi I'm wondering how standard the overlay operator is? Which programs supports the following for instance: L:1/8 | G3G- G2FG [C8D8] | AFAIK only abcm2ps supports it at the moment. I intend to support it in BarFly in due course. abc2mtex did something with it, didn't it ? But I forget the details. Did it really? There's no mention of it in the docs, and I don't have a working copy at the moment to try it out. Phil Taylor To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] how well supported is the overlay operator
On Fri, Nov 12, 2004 at 10:35:11AM +, Phil Taylor wrote: On 12 Nov 2004, at 02:16, Richard Robinson wrote: On Thu, Nov 11, 2004 at 11:23:59PM +, Phil Taylor wrote: On 11 Nov 2004, at 20:32, Atte André Jensen wrote: Hi I'm wondering how standard the overlay operator is? Which programs supports the following for instance: L:1/8 | G3G- G2FG [C8D8] | AFAIK only abcm2ps supports it at the moment. I intend to support it in BarFly in due course. abc2mtex did something with it, didn't it ? But I forget the details. Did it really? There's no mention of it in the docs, and I don't have a working copy at the moment to try it out. From usrguide.tex :- the character is carried straight through to the TeX output and the characters produce a \enotes\notes pair. Thus the input DEFG ABcd A4 e2 c2| produces [2 staves] To explain this to those unfamiliar with MusicTeX, the DEFG are put on the lowest stave. The then tells MusicTeX to move up a stave, where it puts the ABcd. The first notes of each group are aligned. The (or a bar line) moves the output back down to the lowest stave and resets the alignment, so that in this case, the A4 is on the lower stave, and is aligned with the e2 on the upper stave. ah ... related, then, but not altogether similiar. -- Richard Robinson The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes - S. Lem To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] JC's tune finder mirrors?
The mirror cited here works fine for me, at least at the moment. Glad to have this resource functioning again. /RWWT On Friday, November 12, 2004, at 11:02 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know of a mirror for JC's Tune Finder (and other scripts) at http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/music/abc/FindTune.html ? On that page he points to a mirror at http://jc.tzo.net:1742/~jc/music/abc/findtune.html which give a 111 Connection refused message. Maybe it's my firewall at work. Either way, if anyone knows of a functioning mirror to JC's scripts, or something similar, I would be greatly indebted. Thanks, Chris Christopher Myers em: [EMAIL PROTECTED] aim: chrismyers001 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] how well supported is the overlay operator
On 12 Nov 2004, at 14:07, Richard Robinson wrote: From usrguide.tex :- the character is carried straight through to the TeX output and the characters produce a \enotes\notes pair. Thus the input DEFG ABcd A4 e2 c2| produces [2 staves] To explain this to those unfamiliar with MusicTeX, the DEFG are put on the lowest stave. The then tells MusicTeX to move up a stave, where it puts the ABcd. The first notes of each group are aligned. The (or a bar line) moves the output back down to the lowest stave and resets the alignment, so that in this case, the A4 is on the lower stave, and is aligned with the e2 on the upper stave. ah ... related, then, but not altogether similiar. I see - it's a MusicTex function then, rather than part of abc2mtex? Phil Taylor To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Recommendations for graphical entry software
This is probably off-topic, but I think the people on this list would be most qualified to help me! I have given up on Sibelius G7 as being tolerable as a notation entry tool! It fights everything you try to do! I was wondering if anyone on the list has a recommendation for a program that allows entering notation graphically for classical guitar compositions? Here's a list of basic features I'm looking for: 1. Allows entering multiple voices without messing with what you enter (unless you ask it to!) 2. Allows playing back your composition at any point without altering what you have entered. 3. Allows easy Microsoft Windows type editing features (cut, paste, copy, etc.) without messing up what you have already entered or without automatically inserting or deleting measures. 4. It would be nice to be able to convert to and from tabulature. 5. Allows entering key and time signatures wherever you need them without messing up what you have already entered. 6. Allows entering lyrics, fingering, chord symbols, etc. without messing up what you have already entered. 7. Allows printing out postscript (or other form that an HP laser printer will accept). 8. Allows MIDI input and output. 9. Some file conversion utilities (other formats to its native one, and vice versa). You'd think any of the programs out there would allow you to do these things. Am I just asking too much? I just want a tool that is just that ... a tool, not a monster with a mind of its own that you spend 99% of your time fighting with to do a simple task! I do skim through the groups e-mails from time to time, and I do appreciate all everyone is doing on ABC format. But ABC format doesn't help with my music reading skills (sorry if I am missing someone's graphical notation efforts). Does anyone have some recommendations for me? Or maybe someone can tell me how I go about buying Guitar Studio (whose author wants to be paid in Euros) from California? I appreciate any help I can get! Thank you, Don Parrish-Bell To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] how well supported is the overlay operator
Richard Robinson writes: abc2mtex did something with it, didn't it ? But I forget the details. Yes, as a matter of fact, it did. I was just thinking that what goes around, comes around, since this is now appearing once again. (By the way, there's no worry about backward compatibility here---not that anyone is worrying about compatibility with abc2mtex anyway---for it was just a hack to make multistaff music possible at that time, and it was soon obsoleted by the V: field. If more than ten people in the world ever used it, I'd be surprised.) Phil Taylor writes: I see - it's a MusicTex function then, rather than part of abc2mtex? Well...it is and it isn't. The is part of musixtex, and the is part of abc2mtex, (which of course translates it into something different in musixtex.) It worked the following way: if one had three voices, say, then the command would toggle the voices in turn, i.e. notes1 notes 2 notes3 would give the notes in the first voice, the parallel notes in the second voice, and ditto in the third. (But an additional would *not* send it back to the first voice---that might be ok for machines, but for humans it's a guaranteed disaster...it would take no time to get completely lost in the voices.) In fact, there was another mechanism for that, which was a start/stop operator, . With this, the above would actually be written notes1 notes 2 notes3 The second resets it to the first voice. Admittedly, when we talk about voice overlay, we are talking about something slightly different from the above. In abc2mtex, the voices were pre-defined in the header, just as the V: field is now. I'll call such voices globally defined. So abc2mtex used it for globally-defined voices. The operator is now being suggested instead for what I might call locally-defined voices, or even implicitly-defined voices, voices which appear suddenly, then disappear after a couple of bars, without ever being defined by a V: field. [Of course it's probably used for other purposes, too...] I have used this machanism a couple of times with abc2mtex---but no more often than I absolutely had to. (Tried it, didn't like it.) The problem is that it is extremely difficult to proofread and correct. I could find a mistake in the staff output, but re-finding it in the abc was another problem. Like as not, I'd end up correcting the wrong notes. And this was with only two voices. Once you've used the character a few times, it's difficult to sort thru all of them to find the spot that you're after. From the number of posts in this thread, it looks as if this is a good feature, and probably deserves some thought, so let me make a couple of observations. From my experience, I'd say that the operative thing here is ease of proofreading and correcting, even more than ease of either writing or reading. For instance, the 2.0 standard says that one should start the overlay at a barline. However, this might force one to extend the segment further than absolutely necessary, particularly if the barlines are sparse. The longer the segment, the harder the proofreading. I'd suggest adding a start/stop character, making it possible to start and end in the middle of a measure, and to continue across barlines. In abc2mtex, it's ; abcm2ps suggests ( and ) for that, and uses for something else. I like that, since the pren tells you if it's the start or end of a segment, and that simplifies finding the critical place in the abc. A couple of questions. If I read the abcm2ps documentation correctly, it's possible to have two implicitly-defined voices on each staff (making three voices in all) one gotten with and the other with . (The limitation seems to come from the need to distinguish voices by note-staff directions.) Is there any need for more than this? The abcm2ps documentation mentions the problem of distinguishing ( from the beginning of a slur, but is that a real problem? Can't one just treat ( as a special case like (3 for a triplet? If it should be absolutely necessary to have a slur just before an , then add a space between them: ( . (Of course, there remains the question of whether that slur applies to one voice, or to all. Hey---that's someone else's problem.) Cheers, John Walsh To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] how well supported is the overlay operator
John Walsh wrote: [snip] A couple of questions. If I read the abcm2ps documentation correctly, it's possible to have two implicitly-defined voices on each staff (making three voices in all) one gotten with and the other with . (The limitation seems to come from the need to distinguish voices by note-staff directions.) Is there any need for more than this? Four voices in a same staff are very common in guitar pieces (and even in Bach's solo violin pieces), although I don't know a ABC program that can manage that cleanly (abcm2ps is in the way). I don't know what is your abcm2ps version, but with the current version (abcm2ps-4.8.0) this code works fine: X:1 M:3/4 L:1/4 K:C clef=treble c'd'e' cde CDE F,G,A, | I didn't see in abcm2ps-4.8.0 documentation an explicit limit for the number of temporary voices, or the difference between and . This difference is described in the 3.7.1 documentation, but `Note 2' says that was not implemented. `Note 1' is related to the following question: The abcm2ps documentation mentions the problem of distinguishing ( from the beginning of a slur, but is that a real problem? Can't one just treat ( as a special case like (3 for a triplet? If it should be absolutely necessary to have a slur just before an , then add a space between them: ( . (Of course, there remains the question of whether that slur applies to one voice, or to all. Hey---that's someone else's problem.) Please note that the syntax for voice overlay is different in the two versions I cited above. The abcm2ps-3.7.1 uses the delimitators ( ) -- i.e the same as slurs; the new versions use ( and ) [without spaces], so there is not more that problem with the slurs. - One interesting thing in abcm2ps-3.7.1 description is that and differs as regards the *stem direction* (but this is another story...). Hudson To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] how well supported is the overlay operator
On Fri, Nov 12, 2004 at 05:53:21PM +, Phil Taylor wrote: On 12 Nov 2004, at 14:07, Richard Robinson wrote: the character is carried straight through to the TeX output and the characters produce a \enotes\notes pair. Thus the input DEFG ABcd A4 e2 c2| produces [2 staves] To explain this to those unfamiliar with MusicTeX, the DEFG are put on the lowest stave. The then tells MusicTeX to move up a stave, where it puts the ABcd. The first notes of each group are aligned. The (or a bar line) moves the output back down to the lowest stave and resets the alignment, so that in this case, the A4 is on the lower stave, and is aligned with the e2 on the upper stave. ah ... related, then, but not altogether similiar. I see - it's a MusicTex function then, rather than part of abc2mtex? Um. I don't know. It was a thing you could write in an ABC tune, once upon a time. -- Richard Robinson The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes - S. Lem To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html