Re: [abcusers] Finale GHB
Wow you guys are brutal ... get in a fight and you get sent to jail with bagpipe music (snicker, snicker). At 03:15 AM 12/3/2004, you wrote: On 3 Dec 2004, at 08:52, Bernard Hill wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Christian M. Cepel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Any workaround to Finale's inablity to play GBH music (ornamentations gracenotes) as they should sound in GBH music? LOL! I think you mean GHB - Great Highland Bagpipe. GBH means Grievous Bodily Harm. All the Brits here will have been tickled by that. If you get drunk, get into a fight and hit somebody with a bottle, he ends up in hospital and you end up in a prison cell. GBH is what you get charged with. Phil Taylor To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] GHB ... it gets worse ...
A little dyslexia can get you in a whole lot trouble ... something about drugs, bagpipes and fighting in the UK hmm ...awareness about the dangers of GHB and its analogs- gamma hydroxy butyrate or maybe those who don't have GHB get into fights and get booked on GBH after being exposed to Great Highland Bagpipes, LOL. Don
Re: [abcusers] Recommendations for graphical entry software
Yes, G7 is geared towards guitar and costs around $100.00 here. The full-blown version of Sibelius is around $600.00 here, I think, but they offer 50% off for music educators. I am SO thankful I didn't go for the full-blown version! Seems ridiculous to charge that much more for something that you download off of the web! And even shipping a CD and manual can't be that much more can it? No wonder so many of you in the UK are developing your own software! Then I don't know where you got your Sibelius from. The current UK price is 599 pounds, around $1100: or with discounts of around 25% is the best you can find. Or is the G7 some sort of cut down version which I've not heard of? Any chance you or a representative will be at Winter NAMM in Anaheim this year? That's too bad. NAMM is an amazing event ... Toyland for musicians! No, sorry. A 2-person family operation precludes overseas shows. BTW I did try to download your eval. version but it seemed to crash half-way through. I'm not sure if that was a problem on your end or ours. I will try again later. thanks for all your help! Don To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Recommendations for graphical entry software
Got it installed and gave it a quick go. Here's what I've found so far: 1. Can't seem to specify the key before you start. 2. Transpose seems to cause an error unless there are some notes placed. Once a few notes were placed, it seemed to ignore the transpose operation. 3. Note entry is clumsy ... score starts with all rests then you have to right-click on a rest and change it to a note. 4. Doesn't seem like you can move notes with the mouse ... had to change pitch with the right-click method. Granted this is only with a 10 minute session, so I'm probably not up to speed on some of the more salient features. Here's what I would hope to have (and working properly without an argument!): 1. You can pre-set the key signature, time signature and tempo. 2. You can easily setup multiple staffs 3. You can click on a note value from a menu or toolbar and place it right where you want it. 4. You can double-click that note and change its pitch or duration by either keystrokes or by selecting a new duration (pitch changed by moving the note with the mouse. 5. You can enter notes next to, before on top of (i. e. chords) without any argument or user-friendly intervention. 6. You can save, cut paste, etc. ... all the usual editing features. 7. You can playback at any time without disturbing what you have. 8. The program is allowed to adjust note spacing for best appearance, but gives you the option of altering that to suit your own tastes. Do I ask too much? The $20.00 MusicTime program that I got several years back seemed to do all of this ... not without a few quirks here and there though. My short chat with Laurie was about MusicTime. He told me that he started with that MusicTime program when developing his MUSE program. Don At 11:03 AM 11/30/2004, you wrote: Have you tried my program HARMONY? If so, what does it not do, that you need? Neil Jennings www.greenhedges.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Recommendations for graphical entry software
I have played a bit with Harmony Assistant and it does indeed look promising ... It's author wants $70.00 for it, which is probably not too bad, but I hate to jump into another program without even knowing how its printed output will look. The eval. version is very wounded can't save, can't print. I can understand they don't want to give it all away, but that is how I got stuck with G7. Sibelius' demo looks good, but only after buying and working with it a bit have I found out how much I hate it! Today's feature, for example I have a simple piece of music that's in 4/4. The first measure has a dotted quarter note, then an eight note, another dotted quarter and an eighth note. G7 lets me place the dotted quarter, fights, but ultimately allows entering the 1st eight note. It allows me to place the next dotted quarter, but then deletes the dot when I enter the last eighth note. Now, I'm assuming that my arithmetic (and that of the original author of the 16th century piece) is correct ... that a dotted quarter = 3 eighth notes, 2 of those make up 6 possible eighth note spots and 2 eighth notes finish it off for a complete measure without any rests. G7 also has this weird ghost-note thing that once it puts those in you can't delete them. (I'm really looking forward to a little discussion with those people at NAMM this year!). Don At 03:32 AM 11/17/2004, you wrote: From: Phil Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] The OP wanted graphical input. Not many abc programs will do that - offhand I can only think of MUSE, which is very out of date and whose author is now sadly deceased. Harmony Assistant would be worth a try as a program to match his requirements. http://www.myriad-online.com/en/products/harmony.htm Jon To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Recommendations for graphical entry software
Isn't xemacs a unix only kind of thing? Not familiar with it, but I remember the emacs editor from years ago. Don At 02:51 AM 11/17/2004, you wrote: xemacs with abc-mode.el and then e.g. abcm2ps to produce printed output To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Recommendations for graphical entry software
I did have a brief chat with Laurie before his demise. That was quite a loss to the world. He was very gracious and helpful. It's a shame MUSE has not been picked up by someone else to support. It's still listed on Hitsquad and Harmony-Central. The OP wanted graphical input. Not many abc programs will do that - offhand I can only think of MUSE, which is very out of date and whose author is now sadly deceased. abc is simple enough, I just don't want to have yet another level of abstraction to go through in improving my music reading skills. If you can get to grips with learning abc, then using a text editor plus various free abc tools will do everything you want. Upon further inspection, I see that Guitar Studio is only a tabulature entry tool, so it doesn't do if for me either. Or maybe someone can tell me how I go about buying Guitar Studio (whose author wants to be paid in Euros) from California? You can pay for it in dollars ($40) using the online registration page: Thanks for your suggestions, Phil. Don To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Recommendations for graphical entry software
No offense, Bernard, but $170.00 is more than I paid for Sibelius G7. I do like that you said it never argues with you ... definitely something in its favor! Any chance you or a representative will be at Winter NAMM in Anaheim this year? Don You might want to look at my Music Publisher 5 (for Windows). http://www.muspub.com It does most of what you list and never argues with you. It is basically a DTP system for music in the sense that it puts notation on the page and if it's wrong or bad notation then it's your problem. It will not reformat without you explicitly telling it to. Basically it's a replacement for paper and pencil but of course a lot more :-) Lacking from the above list of requirements: a) no midi input (yet) - but it has midi output. b) postscript output: no, but it can produce bmp or pcx graphics files or (of course) print to any windows printer. c) abc import/export is limited basically to the old version 1 standard, with some extensions in v2. Notably missing are lyrics and separate voices. (Of course the *program* handles those but the export does not) d) No file conversions, but conversion is simplest performed by scanning-in a printout of the other music using an extra scanning module (MP Scan 2). Price is 115 pounds or $170US. MP Scan 2 is 75 pounds or $112.50 The evaluation copy does not expire, but it simply prints across the output this is an evaluation copy printout. -- Bernard Hill Braeburn Software Author of Music Publisher system Music Software written by musicians for musicians http://www.braeburn.co.uk Selkirk, Scotland To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Recommendations for graphical entry software
I'd be glad to check it out, Neil. Where do I download it from? Don At 12:26 PM 11/17/2004, you wrote: Have you looked at my program HARMONY? It can do a lot of what you want, including points 1,2,3,5,6,8,and 9, and can write the result in abc format I am currently updating the notation entry by adding drag and drop from toolbars - some of this is already in place. To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Recommendations for graphical entry software
This is probably off-topic, but I think the people on this list would be most qualified to help me! I have given up on Sibelius G7 as being tolerable as a notation entry tool! It fights everything you try to do! I was wondering if anyone on the list has a recommendation for a program that allows entering notation graphically for classical guitar compositions? Here's a list of basic features I'm looking for: 1. Allows entering multiple voices without messing with what you enter (unless you ask it to!) 2. Allows playing back your composition at any point without altering what you have entered. 3. Allows easy Microsoft Windows type editing features (cut, paste, copy, etc.) without messing up what you have already entered or without automatically inserting or deleting measures. 4. It would be nice to be able to convert to and from tabulature. 5. Allows entering key and time signatures wherever you need them without messing up what you have already entered. 6. Allows entering lyrics, fingering, chord symbols, etc. without messing up what you have already entered. 7. Allows printing out postscript (or other form that an HP laser printer will accept). 8. Allows MIDI input and output. 9. Some file conversion utilities (other formats to its native one, and vice versa). You'd think any of the programs out there would allow you to do these things. Am I just asking too much? I just want a tool that is just that ... a tool, not a monster with a mind of its own that you spend 99% of your time fighting with to do a simple task! I do skim through the groups e-mails from time to time, and I do appreciate all everyone is doing on ABC format. But ABC format doesn't help with my music reading skills (sorry if I am missing someone's graphical notation efforts). Does anyone have some recommendations for me? Or maybe someone can tell me how I go about buying Guitar Studio (whose author wants to be paid in Euros) from California? I appreciate any help I can get! Thank you, Don Parrish-Bell To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
RE: [abcusers] Anyone every used Sibelius G7?
I'm ducking to dodge all those poison arrows from this list about why I bought this thing instead of using their program of choice, but here goes anyway ... I wanted to have all the bells and whistles for transcribing to notation and tab and back again. I really liked the format that Guitar Studio has, but I hate to admit I'm not sure how to go about buying it, since the author wants to be paid in Euros. Sibelius G7 seemed to be the best bet, but now that I'm trying to use it, I'm finding all the gory details of how wounded it is. :( For starters, I can't seem to figure out how to make it create a beam between 2 notes. I've been through all there documentation, online help and website help, and I put in for technical assistance which they have indicated I will have some response within 2 or 3 days. Have any of you used this thing? Do you have any idea of how to go about making actually put in the beams? Any help would be appreciated. thank you, Don Parrish-Bell To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] File Conversion
Do I detect a bit of sarcasm there, Neil? Ok, so one part of my problem is easily solvable by various means (import a MIDI file to extract a workable source score), so my next question for all of you is does anyone know of a program that will record a MIDI stream that is being played through the sound card and store it into a MIDI file. Since Music Time seems too limited to export a score into a MIDI-formatted file, this might be a solution. thank you, Don At 11:17 PM 3/30/2004, you wrote: Oh yes, and if you find it useful, or are impressed by it's facilities, PLEASE let us all know! Thanks Neil To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] File Conversion
Thank you! I hadn't even thought of that ... and yet it seems such an obvious thing to do. We do have a Yamahi keyboard that should be able to do that. I will give that a try. Thanks again, Don At 09:50 AM 3/31/2004, you wrote: On Wed, 31 Mar 2004, Don Parrish-Bell wrote: so my next question for all of you is does anyone know of a program that will record a MIDI stream that is being played through the sound card and store it into a MIDI file. Connect your sound card to a keyboard that can record a Midi stream onto a floppy disk. Groeten, Irwin Oppenheim [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~~* ABC Standard: http://abc.sourceforge.net/standard/ Chazzanut Online: http://www.chazzanut.com/ Synagogue Choir: http://www.ask-choir.org/ Business: http://www.amsterdamhotelspecials.com/ To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] File Conversion
We have a very early version of MusicTime that is getting quirkier and quirkier as Windows mutates. It sort of works with Windows XP, but one more downgrade from Microsoft and it may be curtains for it. So, my question is does anyone on the list know of any software to convert MusicTime files into something that Finale or Cakewalk might be able to read and create an editable file? Maybe there's some convoluted way to convert MusicTime into ABC and then back into something else? Thank you, Don Parrish-Bell To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] File Conversion
At the moment, I think just getting MusicTime (I think we have 1.0!) to export a MIDI file (it will play back MIDI ok, though) is the issue. I will see about getting a few files from home to send you. I have no idea how popular this thing was, but my wife has written (or arranged) a bunch of stuff for her chorus that she wants to port to something newer. I will check out your HARMONY program! thanks, Don At 11:41 AM 3/30/2004, you wrote: Have you tried importing the MIDI to my program HARMONY? This can also write abc. (But is only available for Windows) (download from www.greenhedges.com) If I had the MT format to hand, or some sample files, I could probably write a direct import to HARMONY - would there be a large market for it? How widely used is Musictime? What OS does it use? Neil At 07:37 PM 3/30/04, you wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Don Parrish-Bell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes We have a very early version of MusicTime that is getting quirkier and quirkier as Windows mutates. It sort of works with Windows XP, but one more downgrade from Microsoft and it may be curtains for it. Ah, great, another MT die-hard :-) My version of 2.0 still works fine on XP BTW. The only MT - conversion route I've found is save the file from MT as MIDI and put it through Midi2abc - but actually, I find the output from Midi2abc so much in need of editing that just retyping the tune in abc is usually far quicker :-) -- Steve Mansfield Contact me off-list using lists AT lesession DOT co DOT uk http://www.lesession.co.uk - abc music notation tutorial, the uk.music.folk newsgroup FAQ, and other goodies http://www.trebuchetmusic.co.uk - Trebuchet To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] File Conversion
Ok, I installed your Harmony program. I only had a few minutes to play with it, but I was able to convert a couple of midi songs to scores. I couldn't figure out how to edit or add notes in this brief session, though. Do you have documentation that is downloadable when you register this program? Don To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] iabc, and features expected in softwares in general
It wasn't a serious comment, Atte, just injecting a bit of humor. Actually I agree that the sheet music should be as musically correct as possible ... i.e. notes named appropriately for the key signature, etc. There are some chord formations for guitar that are extremely difficult to play and worse to transition into and out of, so I tend to use a different formation or play it in a different key as the need arises. Ok, now to open my mouth and remove all doubt, as it were ... There was some discussion in earlier posts about key signatures vs modes. Is there a way to tell a particular mode from a key signature? From what little knowledge I've gained on music theory, there seems to be even some vagueness about whether a piece is in a relative minor key or not until you get into it a bit. Are modes usually shown in major keys with some indication that the piece is actually in a mode? I have seen some sheet music which does indicate that it is in Dorian, for example. Is that typically the way it is or should be done? Don Atte Andre Jensen wrote: On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, Don Parrish-Bell wrote: yes, and cursed be those who would wish to force us to play in Eb on guitar! I often wondered is those chords on some sheet music were put there by someone who has never played guitar! Or maybe they were put there on some one who has played so much that Eb was no longer a problem :-) Seriously: Different instruments have different problems; Bb and Eb instruments prefer flatter keys (which is the historic reason most jazz tunes are played in flat keys), guitar players prefer chords with open strings, and so on. But I would *never* use a program with a feature of automatically changing what is supposed to be a Bb-chord into a A#-chord. Since it's basically the same thing, it's just a matter of what the reader is used to, but that's not the point IMO of sheetmusic. Cause which is your target sightreader then? The guy who doesn't know anything but The Three Triads or the guy who reads and plays fluently in all keys? I'd like a piece of notation to be as correct as possible. Actually it's all about bringing across the meaning of the music, more than just which buttons to press. What's the leading note for E? A novice might say Eb, but most experienced players find that more difficult to read than D#. Of cource it's the same note, but since the experienced guy understands the inner workings of the leadingnote, then that's what should be on the page, and not so much just this button and then this button. I'm not trying to say this is the way it works in all music, and for all musicians, I'm just trying to say that *for me* the notes Eb and D# are two very different things, and that I in most of the contexts I'm busy with (tonal jazz) would say that one is right and one is wrong... Just my 0.02. -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] iabc, and features expected in softwares in general
yes, and cursed be those who would wish to force us to play in Eb on guitar! I often wondered is those chords on some sheet music were put there by someone who has never played guitar! Don Laurie (ukonline) wrote: One reason for preferring sharps for guitar chords is that if they are actually to be played on a *guitar*, you can always move a shape up the neck by a fret, so that I can immediately think of several ways to play A#. Of course they need barlocks, but there's not always a way round that. On the other hand the chords of Ab, Db, Eb, Gb and for that matter Cb all require a mental shifting of gears to avoid having to use fret number minus one. I'm pleased to say that in Muse the option to force the guitar chords into sharps is indeed optional. Laurie - Original Message - From: Atte Andre Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2002 10:09 PM Subject: Re: [abcusers] iabc, and features expected in softwares in general On 22 Jun 2002, Laura Conrad wrote: laurie == laurie griffiths Laurie writes: laurie Why does transposition need to understand the mode? Currently, the abc2midi transposer only understands the key signature. So if I have a piece in D dorian, and I transpose it up 3 half notes, the transposed output is in Ab. It should be in F dorian. And even worse: most (all?) guitar-chords with a black-key root is translated into sharp rooted version: X:1 T:test M:4/4 L:1/4 C:Atte K:C CCDEF | Bb7GFED | Ab7C4 | G7z4 Becomes this after abc2abc org.abc -t 2 (the A#7 should have been Bb7): X: 1 T:test M:4/4 L:1/4 C:Atte K:D DDEFG | C7AGFE | A#7D4 | A7z4 although abc2abc org.abc -t 5 is ok: X: 1 T:test M:4/4 L:1/4 C:Atte K:F FFGAB | Eb7cBAG | Db7F4 | C7z4 Maybe it's because my harmonies are more chromatic than my melodies, but I fell the most transposition hickups by abc2abc is in the guitar-chords... -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Some minor complaints about abc
Again, I think you guys might be misunderstanding what I was complaining about. The length of a whole line can essentially be stretched out by adjusting the scaling of the PDF image before you print it. But the spacing between notes within a measure is what appears cramped to me. This is also a function of what you print it out on. Things look a little better on the HP Laserjet 4p at work then my Epson 640 inkjet printer at home. I think from what someone else had posted yesterday that you can adjust the note-to-note spacing, so maybe this isn't a valid complaint. I few helpful hints on how to do that, if it is indeed possible, would be very welcome. BTW this is one of the things that a lot of GUI music notation software has quirks about. Guitar Studio was especially over user friendly and would not let you do what you need to do. Others that I have tried are a bit better. I do like having the program adjust the spacing for you, as long as you can go back and tweak it to make it look nicer. abc2Win or abc2ps (not sure which is being used where, sorry) on my work and home computers (both 500MHZ Pentium III, AGP video machines running Win98 with screen resolution set to 800 x 600 pixels) produces rather cramped measures in my opinion. This is obviously a personnal preference thing, so I was inquiring if these tools allow you to setup preferences or if you can pre-program the note-to-note spacing withing the abc text. Some some step-by-step instructions on where and how to setup preferences would be helpful to me, but I will go read through the abc2ps documentation when I get a chance. Don John Walsh wrote: The only part of ABC that I could see that would affect how cramped together a peice of music would look in staff notation is the length of individual lines. Most ABC to Staff converters I know of do not break lines of ABC into multiple lines of staff notation. Obviously, the same piece of music is going to look more cramped if written as 2 lines of 8 measures than 4 lines of 4 measures. If you check out the documentation to abc2ps, you'll find a number of ways to control the note spacing--it recommends putting well-chosen linebreaks in the abc, but that can be overridden, and there are a couple of parameters that can be adjusted and some command-line options, e.g. one can specify the number of bars per line. One possibility which I have found useful elsewhere, and which might be worthwhile adding, is to specify the total number of lines for a tune, leaving the line-breaking decisions to the program. (I have absolutely no idea how easy/difficult this is.) Cheers, John Walsh To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] resons for using abc
IMHO I think abc is an excellent, efficient means of transporting tunes. That seems like what you were all after in the beginning. And it is a refreshing change from the multi-megabyte, bloated files for other things in the wintel world! Phil Taylor wrote: Ulf wrote: My conclusion: abc is good for people who (1) are very experienced in the use of a computer, (2) who can do the necessary intellectual abstractions in their mind and type in the tune at the same time (3) who use sheet music - both reading and writing, and who write a lot of musical notes and therefore have a big sheet music output. I see what you are getting at, but I have to disagree to some extent. (1) is true if you are going to use a text editor + abc2ps + ghostscript or abc2midi + midi player. On the other hand, the GUI based programs (abc2win, abcMus, BarFly) are no more difficult to use than any other program, and complete beginners should have no more trouble learning how to use them than they would with MS-Word. (2) is certainly true. However, the intellectual abstraction involved is no greater than it is when learning to write and read staff notation. For complete beginners abc is actually easier, since you don't have to spend lots of time counting E G B D F up the staff to figure out where the note should go - if you know the name of the note you want to write, you know the answer already. (3) I know lots of people who work primarily with the abc itself, and rather rarely print out the sheet music. Quite a lot of them don't read music very well, and use abc as a means of acquiring new tunes. Of course no one should think that they can get away with using abc as a substitute for staff notation. In the end you are going to have to learn how to read the dots, but it can serve as an easy introduction to the concepts of musical notation. Phil Taylor To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Some minor complaints about abc
Ok, Atte. I will check that out when I get to it. So it's possible to adjust existing abc tunes without major rewrites? A more global way of setting up the note-to-note spacing? Don Atte Andre Jensen wrote: On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Don Parrish-Bell wrote: Again, I think you guys might be misunderstanding what I was complaining about. The length of a whole line can essentially be stretched out by adjusting the scaling of the PDF image before you print it. I think you are misunderstanding us :-) PDF's as such has really nothing to do with the possibilities of abc, neither the language or the program the PDF came from. The PDF is like a print, only is it not on paper, but in a file. So you can change just about as much in a PDF-file as on a piece of music printed on your printer... Nothing. I think I remember you saying a couple of posts ago (forgive me if I'm wrong) that you are yet to try coding anything in abc or trying it out for yourself (I forget the exact words, sorry again). If that's (still) true, you should really grap a program, enter som code, fiddle with the formatting parameters, and you'll see for yourself. I guarantee you that you can have just about as much space between notes as you could possibly dream of! Basically I would say that you have to be *pretty* picky to find anything to complain about in the output from a good abc-program. -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Some minor complaints about abc
Buddha Buck wrote: or are you seeing something like: ||||| This one is more like what I get To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Some minor complaints about abc
I just realized that a big part of the problem was that we had downloaded a bunch of tunes in GIF format ... thus the low-res of some of them. But even the spacing in some of the PDF's I've downloaded is a bit tight. Overall, though, I'm amazed at how well abc and its conversion tools work. Don Parrish-Bell wrote: Buddha Buck wrote: or are you seeing something like: ||||| This one is more like what I get To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Some minor complaints about abc
I haven't had the opportunity to try to encode anything yet, but I look forward to doing so. I'm saving the tons of posts from everyone so I can go back through for hints on various things when I do get to that point. I have downloaded various things and used abc2Win and whatever behind the scenes tool that runs on one of the sites to create printable sheet music. The minor complaint that I have is that the measures seem to be awefully cramped together. So I have been re-entering the sheet music into a program called MusicTime (I know ... blasphamy!). Is this cramping due to how the tune was originally encoded in abc format or is it just how the formatting tools work under Win98? Platform independence is a good thing for those using UNIX-based and whatever other things the rest of the world might be using (what are you guys in Europe using?), but maybe a bit better formatting tool could be developed for Windows. The note shapes tend to be very low-res, too. If the graphics-based ones can printout clean-looking sheet music, seems like a formatting tool for abc could do the same thing. I read a few of the posts today talking about how quickly things can be entered in abc text. I can see how that might be true. Yes it takes a ridiculous amount of time to have to use the mouse to go grab the proper duration note each time and some keyboard short-cuts would be very handy for the GUI-based tools. Are there keyboard short-cuts for abc? Will there be if there aren't any now? weirdPerfect had all those funny CTRL-xx and ALT-xx things, but in many ways it was faster than MSWord for those of us who learned all the little quirky control strings. Seems to be the same unwritten law for music software as for CAD software ... they just can't seem to get it all right in any one program. There's always one strange quirk that you just want to strangle the author over. A case in point was this very promising shareware thing called Guitar Studio. It has some nice features but it does really stupid things like when you want to cut out the notes in a measure of tablature to re-enter them, it decides to shove all the other measures back into it. And forget trying to get the time signature vs notes per measure to come out right. It absolutely goes berserk with that! For entering tab, it's convenient (well for me in a GUI envirnment anyway) to slap down the notes first, then go back to fix the timing. There's nice little piece of freeware called RandyTab that does a respectable job of entering TAB, but it lacks the slick ability that Guitar Studio had of creating the sheet music simultaneously as you entered TAB. You just can't have it all I guess. I like the little community of abcusers. Seems like you are all really trying to make it a decent tool. I'm sorry I can't contribute much to that effort other than a few suggestions for the wish list. Keep up the good work! Don Parrish-Bell To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Some minor complaints about abc
Buddha Buck wrote: At 10:44 AM 06-04-2002 -0700, Don Parrish-Bell you wrote: I haven't had the opportunity to try to encode anything yet, but I look forward to doing so. I'm saving the tons of posts from everyone so I can go back through for hints on various things when I do get to that point. One thing to keep in mind is that ABC is not a program, but rather a notation for music that is text-based. There are various programs out there that interpret that notation and can generate printed scores or play music, and there are several people who use ABC directly when playing music (rather than first converting it to some other notation and playing from that). Most of your complaints are with specific programs or combinations of programs, not with ABC itself. I understand the distinction -- that abc is a file format. My complaints are with the tools that format abc ... at least for the moment. I have downloaded various things and used abc2Win and whatever behind the scenes tool that runs on one of the sites to create printable sheet music. The minor complaint that I have is that the measures seem to be awefully cramped together. So I have been re-entering the sheet music into a program called MusicTime (I know ... blasphamy!). Is this cramping due to how the tune was originally encoded in abc format or is it just how the formatting tools work under Win98? The only part of ABC that I could see that would affect how cramped together a peice of music would look in staff notation is the length of individual lines. Most ABC to Staff converters I know of do not break lines of ABC into multiple lines of staff notation. Obviously, the same piece of music is going to look more cramped if written as 2 lines of 8 measures than 4 lines of 4 measures. ---Actually I was referring to the horizontal spacing for each measure. Even in PDF format, the sheet music seems a bit cramped when you print it out. I suppose what I'm really after, then, is a formating tool with preferences I can tinker with. If that doesn't seem to be the problem (i.e., MusicTime is using the same number of measures/line as abc2win), then it seems like a deficiency with the converter. Platform independence is a good thing for those using UNIX-based and whatever other things the rest of the world might be using (what are you guys in Europe using?), but maybe a bit better formatting tool could be developed for Windows. The note shapes tend to be very low-res, too. If the graphics-based ones can printout clean-looking sheet music, seems like a formatting tool for abc could do the same thing. There are formatting tools for abc that can do the same, and some even work in both Unix and Win environments. One tool I use is abc2ps and its derivatives, which generates sheet music in PostScript from abc notation. PostScript is resolution-independent, so you should be able to --- I believe that abc2ps is what is running underneath my browser to put the sheet music up on the screen. get very crisp, high-res note shapes when printing to a laser printer, or when viewing onscreen. Other tools, like Muse, are full-fledged score-editing programs like I assume MusicTime is, but will read and write abc as well. --- Acrobat allows you to scale a PDF file in the overall sense (height and width), but that's about all it can do with it. As far as I know, there isn't anything that allows you to edit a PDF file. I read a few of the posts today talking about how quickly things can be entered in abc text. I can see how that might be true. Yes it takes a ridiculous amount of time to have to use the mouse to go grab the proper duration note each time and some keyboard short-cuts would be very handy for the GUI-based tools. Are there keyboard short-cuts for abc? Will there be if there aren't any now? weirdPerfect had all those funny CTRL-xx and ALT-xx things, but in many ways it was faster than MSWord for those of us who learned all the little quirky control strings. Since abc is a text-based format, any text-editor is suitable for entering and editing ABC. There is no reason for your fingers to leave the keyboard if you don't want it to. For instance, I am typing in a text-editor attached to my email client (Eudora) and I can, easily, simply write a tune in ABC like so: X: 1 T: C-Scale, once up and down M: 4/4 K: C cdef|gabc'-|c'z2c'|bagf|edc2| This isn't a very good tune, I'll admit, but it is ABC, and easily typed at that. --- Maybe it's just that the devil's in the details. After I get into encoding in abc, maybe I will see that it does all I need as far as entry convenience goes. Does anyone have a good recommendation for a tool that can do the following (preferably all in one package): 1. Enter guitar TAB, tool creates sheet music and TAB as you go. 2. Ability to add lyrics and guitar chords (text and chart format) and/or text notes
Re: [abcusers] Some minor complaints about abc
Yes, MusicTime definitely has some weird little quirks, but for $25.00 it wasn't too bad. It doesn't do TAB at all and it won't let you write a lyric chord sheet. Also it's not OLE-compatible, so you can't take a passage out of it and paste it into Word, for example. My wife has used it quite a lot and has become somewhat of an expert on it. I only toy with it on occassion, but enough to find weird things. The latest was that I couldn't for the life of me figure out how to get it to put a repeat bar at the very beginning of a tune. Don Laurie (ukonline) wrote: Buddha wrote... Other tools, like Muse, are full-fledged score-editing programs like I assume MusicTime is, but will read and write abc as well. Actually, my frustration with MusicTime was the last straw that drove me to develop Muse! Laurie To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Some minor complaints about abc
Muse sounds interesting. Laurie (ukonline) wrote: Don Parrish-Bell [EMAIL PROTECTED] had a wish-list. Here's how Muse shapes up (no, it's not 100%, though if I were a beginner user I might think it was until I discovered the fine details). 1. Enter guitar TAB, tool creates sheet music and TAB as you go. Yes 2. Ability to add lyrics and guitar chords (text and chart format) and/or text notes to the score Lyrics, yes, Guitar chords yes but only text format, Text notes yes and you can have any or all of these at once. 3. Ability to strip out just lyrics or lyrics and guitar chords from an existing tune (the tune could have been written in whatever format is native to the tool) You can get just the ly-rics eas-i-ly e-nough to paste them in-to a word pro-ces-sor but they will still contain hy-phen-a-tion to show how they are split a-cross the notes if you see what I mean. 4. Enter sheet music, tool attempts to create guitar TAB (obviously you'll need to do some touch ups here and there to make it actually playable) Yes, and then having fixed the odd note here and there you can tell it to have another go at the generation, interpolating between your fixed points - so that when you tell it to play some note on fret 12 it will realise that your wrist is a long way from the nut and not put the next or previous note on fret 3. That way you only need to touch up the odd note and the rest falls into place. 5. MIDI IN/OUT (pretty standard feature, from what I see) MIDI files either way, yes Live MIDI out, yes Live MIDI in - no (because the results are not very good - just too much post-editing until/unless I get the tempo following right). 6. Actually knows what the heck a repeat is!! A lot of things I've tried ignore the repeats. If you mean detecting repeat in MIDI in, even from a MIDI file, this is tricky. If you mean output then yes, of course, with variant endings if need be. 7. Doesn't require taking out a second mortgage on your house to buy it! Not many banks are interested in £20 (about $30 US) mortgages 8. Has some keyboard-shortcut method of selecting note duration instead of having to always use the mouse. Yes 9. Outputs in abc, PDF, etc. format. Will do abc, MIDI or its own format directly. Will print on any printer that Windows supports. With a little trickery using Windows it will do PostScript. Not PDF directly. Doesn't do etc. format at all. Not that! That spoils everything LOL Don To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Bored with spam discussion. Here's a tune.
Now that's more like it! Thank you, Phil! Don To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Action against spam, was: KAMPANYALARINIZ iCiN, MUHTESEM KAMPANYA.!!-
Well for what its worth from a brand new subscriber, I would vote for allowing only subscribers to post! That is the way it is on most lists of all sorts. And perhaps your list needs to implement some message filters of somesort to block receiption from spammers. I know these morons jump addresses as soon as one is blocked, but the filters at least slow them down a bit. Don Frank Nordberg wrote: Atte Andre Jensen wrote: Here we go again... Tony?? Are you out there? Anyways seems this is leading nowhere, and since I don't know the exactly correct way of handling this Í propose the following: 1) Let's vote about what the opinion is with spam. Do you think it's a good idea that only subscribers can post here. You certainly have my vote, Atte. Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] äÌÑ ÄÉÒÅËÔÏÒÁ ... WQKOIKFYMT
Interesting e-mail, but I don't read whatever language you sent this to me in. LOL. Could you perhaps translate it to English for me? Don DEMETRIUS wrote: E-Mail . !!! , , . - , . 1... 3300 - . TXT E-Mail . - 30$ 2... BANKS - . TXT E-Mail . 1.599 . - 10$ 3... CHEMISTRY - . TXT E-Mail . 2.214 . - 10$ 4... DDO_RU - http://www.ddo.ru. . TXT E-Mail . 1.738 . - 10$ 5... DOWNLOAD_RU - . http://www.download.ru/ . TXT E-Mail . 3.304 . - 10$ 6... EMAILS - 2.500.000 E-Mail + . 3.000.000 . TXT E-Mail . - 30$ 7... EuroAdress - " ". 190.000 . : - - - - URL - E-Mail - - . + + + 03.04.2002. ! - 50$ 8... MOSCOW - . 40.000 . Excell (.xls) . : - - - - - E-Mail. ! - 20$ 9... OIL - . Excell (.xls). : - - - - - E-Mail - - - . 2.200 . - 20$ 10... PRICE_RU - . http://www.price.ru. TXT E-Mail . 945 . - 10$ 11... Russia - . - Excell (.xls). : - - - - - - E-Mail - WWW - - - - - - . 11.608 . - 20$ 12... SOFTLIST_RU - . http://www.softlist.ru/ . TXT E-Mail . 2.379 . - 10$ 13... SORTED - . 57 . - . CSV ( Excell). 45.000 . - 15$ 14... SPB - -. TXT E-Mail . 20.000 . - 20$ 15... YellowPages - " ". 2 : Excell Microsoft Access. 40.000 . - 20$ 16... . 320.000 E-Mail . TXT E-Mail . - 30$ 15... Tools - + . 10 . SOCKS .. : - MailGrabber - MailSender - AMS - FindMails - Remover - Verify - ADR - SockChain .. 3 ! : " " "Russia" (#11) - 20$ "320.000 " (#16) - 30$ " " (#7) - 50$ "SPB" (#14) - 20$ "OIL" (#9) - 20$ - 140$ ! , 70$ ! " " "EuroAdress" (#7) - 50$ "Moscow" (#8) - 20$ "YellowPages" (#15) - 20$ "SORTED" (#13) - 15$ "PRICE_RU" (#10) - 10$ - 115$ ! , 70$ ! " " #1 #17. - 315$ ! , 150$ ! - - ! ? : (095) 955-9038 (095) 955-9164 (095) 955-9067 (812) 945-3311 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] äÌÑ ÄÉÒÅËÔÏÒÁ ... WQKOIKFYMT
Well that's a relief, I guess. Gee it was much more interesting than I imagined then. LOL. Too bad I can't read Russian, I might have gotten a kick out of the Russian spam. Don Buddha Buck wrote: At 11:38 AM 05-16-2002 -0700, Don Parrish-Bell you wrote: Hi, I hope you are not referring to me as a non-subscriber .. I just subscribed yesterday. Were you the one who sent Russian (I'm assuming, it was some form of Cyrillic text) spam to the list? Are you the one who's been trying to advertise some form of turkish sex-worker (I can't tell if it's prostitution, pornography, or mail-order brides) over this list? If not, I think I'm fairly confident that Atte isn't referring to you. Don Atte Andre Jensen wrote: On Thu, 16 May 2002, Don Parrish-Bell wrote: Interesting e-mail, but I don't read whatever language you sent this to me in. LOL. Could you perhaps translate it to English for me? I say it again: mean it could we change the behaviour of the list so that non-subscribers cannot post/mean it??? Toby, are you listening? -- love, peace harmony Atte To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Re: [abcusers] äÌÑ ÄÉÒÅËÔÏÒÁ . .. WQKOIKFYMT
Can't blame you! I get more than my share of spam on any given day. That wasn't quite the post that I expected as my first e-mail from this list. LOL Don Steve Mansfield wrote: Don Parrish-Bell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : Too bad I can't read Russian, I might have gotten a kick out of the Russian spam. Takes all sorts I s'pose - the rest of us are just trying to get it kicked off the list ;-) -- Steve Mansfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.lesession.demon.co.uk - abc music notation tutorial, the uk.music.folk newsgroup FAQ, and other goodies To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
