[android-developers] Re: ADC2 submissions and Android 1.6 (Donut)

2009-10-06 Thread walthes


 the more voters, the
 better for the contest.

I don't believe so. A smaller number of qualified testers would yield
a more reliable result than a huge number of people who do not know
how to develop software. No one will concede to the developer that the
app crashes because of Donut - in fact, he can't tell whether it's the
app or the operating system - s/he will just give 1 star.

But that's the way it works with Google - let the developers work for
nothing and have the mob blame them.
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[android-developers] Re: ADC2 submissions and Android 1.6 (Donut)

2009-10-06 Thread Beowolve

 I don't believe so. A smaller number of qualified testers would yield
 a more reliable result than a huge number of people who do not know
 how to develop software. No one will concede to the developer that the
 app crashes because of Donut - in fact, he can't tell whether it's the
 app or the operating system - s/he will just give 1 star.

 But that's the way it works with Google - let the developers work for
 nothing and have the mob blame them.

In my opinion this is plane wrong. An applications is mainly used by
none
developers and thats why the response from a simple user counts a lot
more.
It is also one of the main principles how you should develop an
application.
You need to develop for the user and not for you. It is very often not
easy
to know what the user actually wants most, thats for sure *g*.
You can for example create the most powerful command line tool for
file
management with cool batch features and automation just like you would
like
it as a old style programmer coming from a unix background. But the
user
will most likely prefer the simple windows explorer.
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[android-developers] Re: ADC2 submissions and Android 1.6 (Donut)

2009-10-06 Thread Dan Sherman
Right, I think he's suggesting however, that the issue is with 1.6.

A random user who gets the app and has it crash immediately won't think Oh,
this likely has something to do with the recent update to my phone, I'll
skip judging.  They're more likely to think Crashed, sucks, 1star.  Which
leads to a possible good number of 1star ratings due to something the
developer could have no hope of knowing/fixing/understanding as 1.6sdk
wasn't out prior to releasing for ADC.

Developers however, are far more likely to get a crashing app, and say Oh,
it might be due to 1.6, I'll skip, and skip.

- Dan

On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 5:27 AM, Beowolve beowo...@gmail.com wrote:


  I don't believe so. A smaller number of qualified testers would yield
  a more reliable result than a huge number of people who do not know
  how to develop software. No one will concede to the developer that the
  app crashes because of Donut - in fact, he can't tell whether it's the
  app or the operating system - s/he will just give 1 star.
 
  But that's the way it works with Google - let the developers work for
  nothing and have the mob blame them.

 In my opinion this is plane wrong. An applications is mainly used by
 none
 developers and thats why the response from a simple user counts a lot
 more.
 It is also one of the main principles how you should develop an
 application.
 You need to develop for the user and not for you. It is very often not
 easy
 to know what the user actually wants most, thats for sure *g*.
 You can for example create the most powerful command line tool for
 file
 management with cool batch features and automation just like you would
 like
 it as a old style programmer coming from a unix background. But the
 user
 will most likely prefer the simple windows explorer.
 


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[android-developers] Re: ADC2 submissions and Android 1.6 (Donut)

2009-10-06 Thread Jeremy Slade

expert judging is a good idea when the judging can be detailed and
specific.  When judging is limited to 1-4 stars over 4 vague
categories, large numbers are best.

On Oct 6, 2:37 am, walthes andreas.walt...@googlemail.com wrote:
  the more voters, the
  better for the contest.

 I don't believe so. A smaller number of qualified testers would yield
 a more reliable result than a huge number of people who do not know
 how to develop software. No one will concede to the developer that the
 app crashes because of Donut - in fact, he can't tell whether it's the
 app or the operating system - s/he will just give 1 star.

 But that's the way it works with Google - let the developers work for
 nothing and have the mob blame them.
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[android-developers] Re: ADC2 submissions and Android 1.6 (Donut)

2009-10-04 Thread Cédric Berger

On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 19:15, Georgios Galyfos yorg...@gmail.com wrote:
 I am sorry for asking this. I assume the developers taking part in the
 challenge are allowed to judge in the contest, but this way they would be
 allowed to judge even their own app, right? I havent used the judging app
 yet, being afraid to risk disqualification of my entry. The terms dont state
 explicitly anywhere if the developers who have entered apps in the contest
 are allowed to judge.
 please someone let me know about this. I have made an app for the contest
 and I really want to see what the other apps of the challenge are.
 cheers

I cannot tell officially, but I am quite sure you can vote.
And in these mailing lists, you can see a lot of developers with ADC2
apps who said they tested/voted for ADC2 apps.

Anyway, if you still fear voting, just install/test apps and then do
skip voting. Though I think you should vote the more voters, the
better for the contest.

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[android-developers] Re: ADC2 submissions and Android 1.6 (Donut)

2009-10-02 Thread polyclefsoftware

Compatibility with 1.6 could be a real problem for ADC2.

Yesterday I got the update to Donut on my G1. I had installed the ADC2
judging app a couple of days before. The judging app still works fine.
Last night I downloaded an entry called OpenGesture. It force crashed
over and over. I'm unable to tell whether the app is crashing because
it is poorly designed, or because of compatibility issues with 1.6. I
gave the developers the benefit of the doubt and gave the app an
overall 3 star rating.

This sounds like the coincidence of ADC2 and the release of Donut was
not thought through very well. There could be some ugly backlash on
this.

On Sep 29, 6:58 pm, b2amedina b2amed...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi All,

 Have a question about ADC2 submissions and Android 1.6 (Donut)

 We rigorously tested our submission (CubeWorks,http://www.cubeworksmobile.com)
 with Android 1.5 but it crashes on startup with 1.6

 If the rumors are true andDonutdoes become available next week won't
 that make judging unfair since some judges may be using 1.6

 The 1.6 SDK was made available on Sept 15 and the ADC2 submissions
 closed Aug 30th.

 Our trouble is being caused by the android.opengl.GLU.gluUnProject()
 method but I am sure there are other minor incompatibilities between
 the two versions.

 09-17 01:52:04.569: ERROR/AndroidRuntime(796):
 java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: length - offset  n
 09-17 01:52:04.569: ERROR/AndroidRuntime(796):     at
 android.opengl.Matrix.multiplyMV(Native Method)
 09-17 01:52:04.569: ERROR/AndroidRuntime(796):     at
 android.opengl.GLU.gluUnProject(GLU.java:285)

 Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

 Regards,
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[android-developers] Re: ADC2 submissions and Android 1.6 (Donut)

2009-10-02 Thread Maps.Huge.Info (Maps API Guru)

On the other hand...

For those that had a submission with a terminal error, it will put
doubt into the minds of the judges as to the cause of the error: poor
programming or 1.6.

-John Coryat

What Zip Code

Radar Now!
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[android-developers] Re: ADC2 submissions and Android 1.6 (Donut)

2009-10-02 Thread Cédric Berger

On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 16:18, polyclefsoftware dja...@gmail.com wrote:

 it is poorly designed, or because of compatibility issues with 1.6. I
 gave the developers the benefit of the doubt and gave the app an
 overall 3 star rating.

Best (fairest) thing to do when you suspect behavior may have been
impacted by Donut, is to just skip voting for it.

This way your vote won't count at all and those with cupcake will
still vote for the real cupcake behavior.
And this should still leave plenty of applications working ok with
Donut that you can vote for.

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[android-developers] Re: ADC2 submissions and Android 1.6 (Donut)

2009-10-02 Thread polyclefsoftware

That makes sense. I knew we could skip installation of apps, but
didn't know I could skip voting as well.

I'll do that from now on.

I haven't tested my entry under 1.6, so I don't know if there are
issues. Your average user probably won't care if it doesn't work
because of the OS version, though. They'll just care if it works or
not.

On Oct 2, 10:20 am, Cédric Berger cedric.berge...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 16:18, polyclefsoftware dja...@gmail.com wrote:

  it is poorly designed, or because of compatibility issues with 1.6. I
  gave the developers the benefit of the doubt and gave the app an
  overall 3 star rating.

 Best (fairest) thing to do when you suspect behavior may have been
 impacted by Donut, is to just skip voting for it.

 This way your vote won't count at all and those with cupcake will
 still vote for the real cupcake behavior.
 And this should still leave plenty of applications working ok with
 Donut that you can vote for.
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[android-developers] Re: ADC2 submissions and Android 1.6 (Donut)

2009-10-02 Thread Dan Sherman
But you would hope the number of developers voting would be significantly
less than number of random users.  And unfortunately, they very well might
not think Oh, this could have something to do with the recent update and
skip.  They'll just give a 1 star.

- Dan

On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 12:05 PM, polyclefsoftware dja...@gmail.com wrote:


 That makes sense. I knew we could skip installation of apps, but
 didn't know I could skip voting as well.

 I'll do that from now on.

 I haven't tested my entry under 1.6, so I don't know if there are
 issues. Your average user probably won't care if it doesn't work
 because of the OS version, though. They'll just care if it works or
 not.

 On Oct 2, 10:20 am, Cédric Berger cedric.berge...@gmail.com wrote:
  On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 16:18, polyclefsoftware dja...@gmail.com wrote:
 
   it is poorly designed, or because of compatibility issues with 1.6. I
   gave the developers the benefit of the doubt and gave the app an
   overall 3 star rating.
 
  Best (fairest) thing to do when you suspect behavior may have been
  impacted by Donut, is to just skip voting for it.
 
  This way your vote won't count at all and those with cupcake will
  still vote for the real cupcake behavior.
  And this should still leave plenty of applications working ok with
  Donut that you can vote for.
 


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[android-developers] Re: ADC2 submissions and Android 1.6 (Donut)

2009-10-02 Thread Georgios Galyfos
I am sorry for asking this. I assume the developers taking part in the
challenge are allowed to judge in the contest, but this way they would be
allowed to judge even their own app, right? I havent used the judging app
yet, being afraid to risk disqualification of my entry. The terms dont state
explicitly anywhere if the developers who have entered apps in the contest
are allowed to judge.
please someone let me know about this. I have made an app for the contest
and I really want to see what the other apps of the challenge are.
cheers
On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 7:13 PM, Dan Sherman impact...@gmail.com wrote:

 But you would hope the number of developers voting would be significantly
 less than number of random users.  And unfortunately, they very well might
 not think Oh, this could have something to do with the recent update and
 skip.  They'll just give a 1 star.

 - Dan


 On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 12:05 PM, polyclefsoftware dja...@gmail.comwrote:


 That makes sense. I knew we could skip installation of apps, but
 didn't know I could skip voting as well.

 I'll do that from now on.

 I haven't tested my entry under 1.6, so I don't know if there are
 issues. Your average user probably won't care if it doesn't work
 because of the OS version, though. They'll just care if it works or
 not.

 On Oct 2, 10:20 am, Cédric Berger cedric.berge...@gmail.com wrote:
   On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 16:18, polyclefsoftware dja...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
   it is poorly designed, or because of compatibility issues with 1.6. I
   gave the developers the benefit of the doubt and gave the app an
   overall 3 star rating.
 
  Best (fairest) thing to do when you suspect behavior may have been
  impacted by Donut, is to just skip voting for it.
 
  This way your vote won't count at all and those with cupcake will
  still vote for the real cupcake behavior.
  And this should still leave plenty of applications working ok with
  Donut that you can vote for.



 


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[android-developers] Re: ADC2 submissions and Android 1.6 (Donut)

2009-10-01 Thread alex

Which it does.

On Sep 30, 6:44 pm, Maps.Huge.Info (Maps API Guru)
cor...@gmail.com wrote:
 The only fair solution would be to make sure the judging app doesn't
 function on 1.6

 -John Coryat

 What Zip Code?

 Radar Now!
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[android-developers] Re: ADC2 submissions and Android 1.6 (Donut)

2009-10-01 Thread Maps.Huge.Info (Maps API Guru)



On Sep 30, 11:00 am, ander...@phdgaming.com ander...@phdgaming.com
wrote:
  The second round of judging also includes user judging - 40% of the
  outcome if I remember correctly.

 I believe you are incorrect on this.  This first round of judging is
 user judging, and makes up 40% of an apps final rating. The second
 round is all expert judging by Google that counts for the remaining
 60% and has no user judging. The applications final rating and
 placement is determined by both rounds.

From http://code.google.com/android/adc/adc2_terms.html

b. JUDGING: All Qualifying Entries for the Second Round Judging will
be judged by (1) end users of Android-powered handsets who choose to
participate in judging, whether or not they participated in First
Round Judging (Community Judges), and (2) a panel of experts in the
fields of mobile devices, cellular telecommunications, software
development, and/or technology innovation (Expert Judges). Google
will select the Expert Judges from the member organizations of the
Open Handset Alliance, from Google, or from other organizations.

Clearly, second round judging will include end users.

-John Coryat

What Zip Code?

Radar Now!
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[android-developers] Re: ADC2 submissions and Android 1.6 (Donut)

2009-10-01 Thread ander...@phdgaming.com

 From http://code.google.com/android/adc/adc2_terms.html

Ooops, looks like I had it wrong. Thanks for the correction - had
missed that previously. :)

This does present a bit of an interesting situation. The HTC Tatoo
coming out in October has a 240X320 screen the smallest of any
mainstream Android device yet, I believe and uses a different type
of touch screen. I wonder how many developers of non-standard button
UIs (such as games) have code that adjusts the clickable area
appropriately for such a device in their original submission? Not to
mention my personal application is only really useful on a ~320X~480
screen size or greater due to font size.
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[android-developers] Re: ADC2 submissions and Android 1.6 (Donut)

2009-10-01 Thread ander...@phdgaming.com

It would appear 1.6 is now being rolled out to all T-mobile users
( 
http://forums.t-mobile.com/tmbl/board/message?board.id=AndroidGeneralthread.id=6733
and most android news sites). Ouch for those who happen to have
application problems under the new release.
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[android-developers] Re: ADC2 submissions and Android 1.6 (Donut)

2009-09-30 Thread Dan Sherman
Crashing on unofficial builds is worse than crashing at startup on official
builds? =P

- Dan

On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 1:49 AM, Pieter pie...@gamesquare.nl wrote:


 The problem is a little worse for us. Our app does runs fine on 1.6 in
 the simulator, but we got complaints about crashes from people running
 unofficial builds:

 java.lang.ClassCastException: android.graphics.drawable.BitmapDrawable
at com.google.android.maps.MyLocationOverlay.getLocationDot
 (MyLocationOverlay.java:180)
at com.google.android.maps.MyLocationOverlay.drawMyLocation
 (MyLocationOverlay.java:561)
at com.google.android.maps.MyLocationOverlay.draw
 (MyLocationOverlay.java:511)
at com.google.android.maps.OverlayBundle.draw
 (OverlayBundle.java:45)
at com.google.android.maps.MapView.onDraw(MapView.java:476)

 Based on the exception trace it seems the MapView widget in
 combination with the MyLocation overlay is bugged in some unofficial
 1.6 build(s) but work fine in 1.6 in the simulator. Already some
 people gave bad ratings (and comments) in the shop because of this
 bug, and undoubtedly will in ADC2. On the web, some more scattered
 reports about this problem can be found, including:

 http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/43615742f462bbf1/eb170a84a0ff385e?#eb170a84a0ff385e

 On the one hand, these people try an application and it just crashes
 so they are entitled to give bad ratings. On the other hand, they run
 an unofficial build, so maybe they should take that into account.

 We just hope relatively few judges run these builds. We actually hope
 the official 1.6 comes out sooner instead of later so some potential
 judges already upgraded from an unofficial build to the official 1.6
 when they judge.

 Anyway, anyone who uses MyOverlay in their application suffers from
 the same problem.

 Regards,
 Pieter (SpecTrek).


 


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[android-developers] Re: ADC2 submissions and Android 1.6 (Donut)

2009-09-30 Thread Cédric Berger

On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 01:58, b2amedina b2amed...@gmail.com wrote:
 If the rumors are true and Donut does become available next week won't
 that make judging unfair since some judges may be using 1.6

 The 1.6 SDK was made available on Sept 15 and the ADC2 submissions
 closed Aug 30th.


Donut is already available for developer phones ADP1 and Ion.
I hope developers making the update and judging apps are wise enough
to skip voting for apps crashing, since they can't tell if it would
have worked on cupcake.

But for other phones I have not seen yet real rumors for a release
next week. I doubt an OTA update will be rolled out before the end of
this judging round.

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[android-developers] Re: ADC2 submissions and Android 1.6 (Donut)

2009-09-30 Thread Warren

The second round of judging also includes user judging - 40% of the
outcome if I remember correctly. So the likelihood that a significant
number of judges will be running 1.6 before all judging ends is quite
high in my opinion.

Warren


On Sep 30, 6:54 am, Cédric Berger cedric.berge...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 01:58, b2amedina b2amed...@gmail.com wrote:
  If the rumors are true and Donut does become available next week won't
  that make judging unfair since some judges may be using 1.6

  The 1.6 SDK was made available on Sept 15 and the ADC2 submissions
  closed Aug 30th.

 Donut is already available for developer phones ADP1 and Ion.
 I hope developers making the update and judging apps are wise enough
 to skip voting for apps crashing, since they can't tell if it would
 have worked on cupcake.

 But for other phones I have not seen yet real rumors for a release
 next week. I doubt an OTA update will be rolled out before the end of
 this judging round.
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[android-developers] Re: ADC2 submissions and Android 1.6 (Donut)

2009-09-30 Thread Maps.Huge.Info (Maps API Guru)

The only fair solution would be to make sure the judging app doesn't
function on 1.6

-John Coryat

What Zip Code?

Radar Now!
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[android-developers] Re: ADC2 submissions and Android 1.6 (Donut)

2009-09-30 Thread ander...@phdgaming.com

 The second round of judging also includes user judging - 40% of the
 outcome if I remember correctly.

I believe you are incorrect on this.  This first round of judging is
user judging, and makes up 40% of an apps final rating. The second
round is all expert judging by Google that counts for the remaining
60% and has no user judging. The applications final rating and
placement is determined by both rounds.

As an aside, the news post did state that the judging would be open
for a minimum of two weeks - or could theoretically end next week. I'd
guess they won't officially release 1.6 until the close the judging
(and if it is to be next week as per a rumor, it could still work
out).

Do agree that it might be fairest to prevent the judging app from
running on 1.6 devices that have it early (such as the ADP1) in the
meantime.
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[android-developers] Re: ADC2 submissions and Android 1.6 (Donut)

2009-09-30 Thread Mobidev

+1 judging app shouldn't function on 1.6

ADC2-Round1 should end before 1.6 official upgrade.
Existing judging app should not be used for ADC2-Round2 (create a new
version) and...
neither should the new judging app (round2) function on 1.6


On Sep 30, 8:44 pm, Maps.Huge.Info (Maps API Guru)
cor...@gmail.com wrote:
 The only fair solution would be to make sure the judging app doesn't
 function on 1.6

 -John Coryat

 What Zip Code?

 Radar Now!
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[android-developers] Re: ADC2 submissions and Android 1.6 (Donut)

2009-09-29 Thread Pieter

The problem is a little worse for us. Our app does runs fine on 1.6 in
the simulator, but we got complaints about crashes from people running
unofficial builds:

java.lang.ClassCastException: android.graphics.drawable.BitmapDrawable
at com.google.android.maps.MyLocationOverlay.getLocationDot
(MyLocationOverlay.java:180)
at com.google.android.maps.MyLocationOverlay.drawMyLocation
(MyLocationOverlay.java:561)
at com.google.android.maps.MyLocationOverlay.draw
(MyLocationOverlay.java:511)
at com.google.android.maps.OverlayBundle.draw
(OverlayBundle.java:45)
at com.google.android.maps.MapView.onDraw(MapView.java:476)

Based on the exception trace it seems the MapView widget in
combination with the MyLocation overlay is bugged in some unofficial
1.6 build(s) but work fine in 1.6 in the simulator. Already some
people gave bad ratings (and comments) in the shop because of this
bug, and undoubtedly will in ADC2. On the web, some more scattered
reports about this problem can be found, including:
http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers/browse_thread/thread/43615742f462bbf1/eb170a84a0ff385e?#eb170a84a0ff385e

On the one hand, these people try an application and it just crashes
so they are entitled to give bad ratings. On the other hand, they run
an unofficial build, so maybe they should take that into account.

We just hope relatively few judges run these builds. We actually hope
the official 1.6 comes out sooner instead of later so some potential
judges already upgraded from an unofficial build to the official 1.6
when they judge.

Anyway, anyone who uses MyOverlay in their application suffers from
the same problem.

Regards,
Pieter (SpecTrek).


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