Re: [AOLSERVER] Active participation (was: RE: [AOLSERVER] Minor facelift to aolserver.com)
On 2008.04.08, Don Baccus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: AOLserver isn't a very popular webserver, but our small world includes people running large sites (you with your 10,000 sockets, in the OpenACS case university environments with 40,000 users running on our e-learning platform). It's important that the community be involved, and that changes not simply be made, announced in release notes, by fiat. Great! I agree. Lets try to come up with a list of 5 enhancements that we can all agree would be a good improvement and start working towards that. At the top of everyone's list seems to be improved documentation. What else? ... Eventually, we will settle on a list of things that we've eventually arrived at through this consensus-forming process. At that point, Don (or Tom), how do we go about actually accomplishing these tasks and completing these changes? Do we have any workable way of solving that problem? -- Dossy Shiobara | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://dossy.org/ Panoptic Computer Network | http://panoptic.com/ He realized the fastest way to change is to laugh at your own folly -- then you can let go and quickly move on. (p. 70) -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Active participation (was: RE: [AOLSERVER] Minor facelift to aolserver.com)
On 2008.04.11, Juan José del Río (Simple Option) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Suggestions? Ok, here I go... I was going to suggest adding support for another language apart from TCL... be it Mono. That'd give support for languages such as C#, VB, Python, and faster performance. ... am I too crazy? :) In order to support a language in the core, the language runtime must have these two non-negotiable properties: 1) Fully thread-safe 2) Embeddable Otherwise, the best you can do is execute code in the other language in a nsproxy outside of the nsd process space. This is why I started work on nsjsapi, support for in-process server-side JavaScript in AOLserver. SpiderMonkey, the JavaScript runtime, has both of those properties I listed above. -- Dossy Shiobara | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://dossy.org/ Panoptic Computer Network | http://panoptic.com/ He realized the fastest way to change is to laugh at your own folly -- then you can let go and quickly move on. (p. 70) -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Active participation (was: RE: [AOLSERVER] Minor facelift to aolserver.com)
On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 09:13:38PM +0200, Juan Jos? del R?o (Simple Option) wrote: Suggestions? Ok, here I go... I was going to suggest adding support for another language apart from TCL... be it Mono. That'd give support for languages such as C#, VB, Python, and faster performance. ... am I too crazy? :) Crazy, no. But I think the onus will be on you to actually add full support for whatever this other not-Tcl not-C language is that you're interested in. AFAIK, doing so is feasible, but so far, everyone interested in such support seems to have hacked at it for a while, and then lost interest and quit. See also: http://panoptic.com/wiki/aolserver/Languages Languages people have done that level of work for seem to include at least: Python, Standard ML, Objective Caml, Scheme, Ruby, and Perl. Vlad Seryakov wrote the OCaml module and apparently was using it for something real. The guys who did the ML support wrote up a nice paper on their use of AOLserver years ago, but I don't know if they've really used it much since then. Ah, probably not, as they apparently moved to Apache in Feb. 2007. I don't think the guy who was adding it ever actually used the Python support much, and the Scheme and Perl modules were definitely very early alpha development only. Probably the same for Ruby. People out there are probably using AOLservers Java and PHP modules for real, but more for integration with other existing code and libraries, NOT so much for new web development per se with AOLserver. If you want to add C# support, well, no one is stopping you... -- Andrew Piskorski [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.piskorski.com/ -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Active participation (was: RE: [AOLSERVER] Minor facelift to aolserver.com)
On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 02:11:30PM -0700, Tom Jackson wrote: 2. The thread/shared memory/synchonization model is much better than C#, VB or Python, and is actually well documented because it is based upon the pthreads API (But it is also essentially mostly invisible at the application level). A Java 5 threads API, finally introduced some features that AOLserver has had for 'ever': http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/concurrency/overview.html It is hard to say if these newer languages (C# and MONO) have these features, probably VB and Python don't: Btw, I was flipping through this book the other night, and I noticed its chapter 30, Threads and States. http://www.amazon.com/Programming-Lua-Second-Roberto-Ierusalimschy/dp/8590379825/ Programming in Lua, Second Edition, by Roberto Ierusalimschy Lua has states, which are sounds equivalent to Tcl interps, and threads, which are lightweight cooperative non-concurrent user-threads, normally used only to support Lua's coroutines. Standard Lua runs in one OS thread only, but appears to be totally thread safe. That chapter basically walks through a simple example of how to take Lua states and threads, plus the usual POSIX pthreads C API, and construct a system for running concurrent lightweight Lua processes on multiple OS threads. He never mentions it (and may have been more inspired by Erlang), but that sounds exactly like the apartment model of threading that Tcl and AOLserver have had for years and years. (At least 10 years now, probably more? I don't really know.) Note, Lua does not actually include this lightweight-process / apartment-threading support at all, but I thought it was interesting that making it work like Tcl appears so straightforward. Ierusalimschy also has a recent paper that seems to give a pretty nice overview of concerns when designing embedable and extensible scripting languages: http://www.inf.puc-rio.br/%7Eroberto/docs/jucs-c-apis.pdf Hisham Muhammad and Roberto Ierusalimschy. C APIs in extension and extensible languages. In XI Brazilian Symposium on Programming Languages, Natal, May 2007. (to appear) Unfortunately, although he compares and contrasts Lua to Perl, Python, and Ruby, he barely mentions Tcl at all. That may explain why he didn't notice that Chapter 30 of his book basically recapitulates Tcl's Threading design... (Btw, I have never actually used the language, just read about it, but Lua's big weakness appears to be its relative dearth of standard libraries.) -- Andrew Piskorski [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.piskorski.com/ -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Active participation (was: RE: [AOLSERVER] Minor facelift to aolserver.com)
On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 02:11:30PM -0700, Tom Jackson wrote: It is hard to say if these newer languages (C# and MONO) have these features, probably VB and Python don't: task scheduling: ns_schedule_proc, ns_job concurrent collections: nsv arrays, ns_share, static vars (config structure) atomic variables: nsv arrays synchronizers: ns_mutex, ns_cond, etc. Incidentally, those aren't so much language features, they're more features of the AOLserver/Tcl API and environment. Tcl didn't have nsv_* or ANY of the cool stuff above until Jim Davidson and crew added them to AOLserver sometime c. the mid 1990's, after all... Some languages, and especially language implementations, would no doubt be much more amenable to supporting those sorts of AOLserver derived APIs than others, of course. But if you pick an appropriate language and implementation to start with (e.g., JavaScript Spidermonkey, Lua, some Scheme systems), it's PROBABLY just a Simple Matter of Programming. :) -- Andrew Piskorski [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.piskorski.com/ -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Active participation (was: RE: [AOLSERVER] Minor facelift to aolserver.com)
On Friday 11 April 2008 19:31, Andrew Piskorski wrote: On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 02:11:30PM -0700, Tom Jackson wrote: It is hard to say if these newer languages (C# and MONO) have these features, probably VB and Python don't: task scheduling: ns_schedule_proc, ns_job concurrent collections: nsv arrays, ns_share, static vars (config structure) atomic variables: nsv arrays synchronizers: ns_mutex, ns_cond, etc. Incidentally, those aren't so much language features, they're more features of the AOLserver/Tcl API and environment. Tcl didn't have nsv_* or ANY of the cool stuff above until Jim Davidson and crew added Right, which is why talking about adding a language is somewhat the wrong question. AOLserver is more of a framework, although Java/C# also have somewhat hidden frameworks for concurrency/memory management. You can't just add a language to AOLserver, because most languages don't provide the same high level framework. tom jackson -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Minor facelift to aolserver.com
On 2008.04.08, Brett Schwarz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I threw this together http://www.bschwarz.com/aolserver.jpg with Gimp. Now, I'm not a graphic's wiz, but I thought I would create something basic that we can start with, as a way to get to the design we want. I would be willing to *try* to make any suggested enhancements, but like I said, I am no graphics designer. Perhaps this will spark some momentum. It's awesome. Very Web 2.0 (gradient, reflection) ... an orange starburst and a swoosh would fully trick it out as a Web 2.0 treatment. Heh. I've used the logo. Can you send me the GIMP .xcf file for it? BTW, are there any legal matters that we need to be concerned with in creating a logo for aolserver? Good question. I really should have a serious conversation with AOL Legal about this issue. I'm hoping that as long as we stay away from the actual AOL logo treatment itself, we'll be okay ... but I'd like to get that in writing. -- Dossy Shiobara | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://dossy.org/ Panoptic Computer Network | http://panoptic.com/ He realized the fastest way to change is to laugh at your own folly -- then you can let go and quickly move on. (p. 70) -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Minor facelift to aolserver.com
I threw this together http://www.bschwarz.com/aolserver.jpg with Gimp. Now, I'm not a graphic's wiz, but I thought I would create something basic that we can start with, as a way to get to the design we want. I would be willing to *try* to make any suggested enhancements, but like I said, I am no graphics designer. Perhaps this will spark some momentum. BTW, are there any legal matters that we need to be concerned with in creating a logo for aolserver? On 2008.04.08, Mark Aufflick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Looks clean - but it *really* needs a logo to inject some motion. I agree; I'd like a modern and attractive logo treatment, along with a few key icons for downloads, documentation, community ... You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Minor facelift to aolserver.com
What about this?! - Juan José del Río| Comercio online / e-commerce (+34) 616 512 340| [EMAIL PROTECTED] Simple Option S.L. Tel: (+34) 951 930 122 Fax: (+34) 951 930 122 http://www.simpleoption.com On Tue, 2008-04-08 at 14:29 -0400, Dossy Shiobara wrote: On 2008.04.08, Brett Schwarz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I threw this together http://www.bschwarz.com/aolserver.jpg with Gimp. Now, I'm not a graphic's wiz, but I thought I would create something basic that we can start with, as a way to get to the design we want. I would be willing to *try* to make any suggested enhancements, but like I said, I am no graphics designer. Perhaps this will spark some momentum. It's awesome. Very Web 2.0 (gradient, reflection) ... an orange starburst and a swoosh would fully trick it out as a Web 2.0 treatment. Heh. I've used the logo. Can you send me the GIMP .xcf file for it? BTW, are there any legal matters that we need to be concerned with in creating a logo for aolserver? Good question. I really should have a serious conversation with AOL Legal about this issue. I'm hoping that as long as we stay away from the actual AOL logo treatment itself, we'll be okay ... but I'd like to get that in writing. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. attachment: aolserver.png
Re: [AOLSERVER] Minor facelift to aolserver.com
Well, it's certainly compliant :-), but I suspect Mr. Jackson would object. If there's one thing aolserver ain't, it's beta. -- ReC -Original Message- From: AOLserver Discussion [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Juan José del Río (Simple Option) Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 12:44 PM To: AOLSERVER@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [AOLSERVER] Minor facelift to aolserver.com What about this?! - Juan José del Río| Comercio online / e-commerce (+34) 616 512 340| [EMAIL PROTECTED] Simple Option S.L. Tel: (+34) 951 930 122 Fax: (+34) 951 930 122 http://www.simpleoption.com On Tue, 2008-04-08 at 14:29 -0400, Dossy Shiobara wrote: On 2008.04.08, Brett Schwarz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I threw this together http://www.bschwarz.com/aolserver.jpg with Gimp. Now, I'm not a graphic's wiz, but I thought I would create something basic that we can start with, as a way to get to the design we want. I would be willing to *try* to make any suggested enhancements, but like I said, I am no graphics designer. Perhaps this will spark some momentum. It's awesome. Very Web 2.0 (gradient, reflection) ... an orange starburst and a swoosh would fully trick it out as a Web 2.0 treatment. Heh. I've used the logo. Can you send me the GIMP .xcf file for it? BTW, are there any legal matters that we need to be concerned with in creating a logo for aolserver? Good question. I really should have a serious conversation with AOL Legal about this issue. I'm hoping that as long as we stay away from the actual AOL logo treatment itself, we'll be okay ... but I'd like to get that in writing. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Minor facelift to aolserver.com
On 2008.04.08, Brett Schwarz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I threw this together http://www.bschwarz.com/aolserver.jpg with Gimp. Now, I'm not a graphic's wiz, but I thought I would create something basic that we can start with, as a way to get to the design we want. I would be willing to *try* to make any suggested enhancements, but like I said, I am no graphics designer. Perhaps this will spark some momentum. It's awesome. Very Web 2.0 (gradient, reflection) ... an orange starburst and a swoosh would fully trick it out as a Web 2.0 treatment. Heh. Hey, does this mean I can put graphic artist on my resume ;) (for those serious folks...yes, I am joking) For those who are interested, most of the design of the logo I followed from this tutorial: http://gimp-tutorials.net/node/91 I've used the logo. Can you send me the GIMP .xcf file for it? http://www.bschwarz.com/aolserver.xcf cheers, --bret You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Minor facelift to aolserver.com
I like the color. Not sure if Dossy was serious, but actually thinking about more...some sort of swoosh over the server part..in that color would look nice I think...but I'm biased...I like blue/orange color scheme... - Original Message From: Juan José del Río (Simple Option) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: AOLSERVER@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2008 12:43:57 PM Subject: Re: [AOLSERVER] Minor facelift to aolserver.com What about this?! - Juan José del Río| Comercio online / e-commerce (+34) 616 512 340| [EMAIL PROTECTED] Simple Option S.L. Tel: (+34) 951 930 122 Fax: (+34) 951 930 122 http://www.simpleoption.com On Tue, 2008-04-08 at 14:29 -0400, Dossy Shiobara wrote: On 2008.04.08, Brett Schwarz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I threw this together http://www.bschwarz.com/aolserver.jpg with Gimp. Now, I'm not a graphic's wiz, but I thought I would create something basic that we can start with, as a way to get to the design we want. I would be willing to *try* to make any suggested enhancements, but like I said, I am no graphics designer. Perhaps this will spark some momentum. It's awesome. Very Web 2.0 (gradient, reflection) ... an orange starburst and a swoosh would fully trick it out as a Web 2.0 treatment. Heh. I've used the logo. Can you send me the GIMP .xcf file for it? BTW, are there any legal matters that we need to be concerned with in creating a logo for aolserver? Good question. I really should have a serious conversation with AOL Legal about this issue. I'm hoping that as long as we stay away from the actual AOL logo treatment itself, we'll be okay ... but I'd like to get that in writing. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Minor facelift to aolserver.com
Yes, but: - But Beta seems to attract so many people to certain technologies/software... Even if some people don't like new people, they are somehow needed. We'll die someday. We need someone to take over our tasks. - We can say that it's 1% beta. Sure there's something that still crashes from time to time! If not, let me upload some patches, and you'll see... lol Note: I am half kidding, half serious. - Juan José del Río| Comercio online / e-commerce (+34) 616 512 340| [EMAIL PROTECTED] Simple Option S.L. Tel: (+34) 951 930 122 Fax: (+34) 951 930 122 http://www.simpleoption.com On Tue, 2008-04-08 at 13:52 -0700, Rick Cobb wrote: Well, it's certainly compliant :-), but I suspect Mr. Jackson would object. If there's one thing aolserver ain't, it's beta. -- ReC -Original Message- From: AOLserver Discussion [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Juan José del Río (Simple Option) Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 12:44 PM To: AOLSERVER@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [AOLSERVER] Minor facelift to aolserver.com What about this?! - Juan José del Río| Comercio online / e-commerce (+34) 616 512 340| [EMAIL PROTECTED] Simple Option S.L. Tel: (+34) 951 930 122 Fax: (+34) 951 930 122 http://www.simpleoption.com On Tue, 2008-04-08 at 14:29 -0400, Dossy Shiobara wrote: On 2008.04.08, Brett Schwarz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I threw this together http://www.bschwarz.com/aolserver.jpg with Gimp.. Now, I'm not a graphic's wiz, but I thought I would create something basic that we can start with, as a way to get to the design we want. I would be willing to *try* to make any suggested enhancements, but like I said, I am no graphics designer. Perhaps this will spark some momentum. It's awesome. Very Web 2.0 (gradient, reflection) ... an orange starburst and a swoosh would fully trick it out as a Web 2.0 treatment. Heh. I've used the logo. Can you send me the GIMP .xcf file for it? BTW, are there any legal matters that we need to be concerned with in creating a logo for aolserver? Good question. I really should have a serious conversation with AOL Legal about this issue. I'm hoping that as long as we stay away from the actual AOL logo treatment itself, we'll be okay ... but I'd like to get that in writing. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Minor facelift to aolserver.com
Juan José del Río (Simple Option) wrote: Yes, but: - But Beta seems to attract so many people to certain technologies/software... Even if some people don't like new people, they are somehow needed. We'll die someday. We need someone to take over our tasks. - We can say that it's 1% beta. Sure there's something that still crashes from time to time! If not, let me upload some patches, and you'll see... lol Note: I am half kidding, half serious. Back in the old days we labeled stuff Under Construction. Beta seems much more formal, snazzy, ... 2.0. http://mpt.net.nz/archive/2005/12/27/web-2 -J -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Minor facelift to aolserver.com
I thought the beta thing was hilarious. Aolserver is one of the most rock-solid pieces of software I've used. But I half-agree with Juan (and I know he's joking!) Jade On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 2:26 PM, Juan José del Río (Simple Option) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, but: - But Beta seems to attract so many people to certain technologies/software... Even if some people don't like new people, they are somehow needed. We'll die someday. We need someone to take over our tasks. - We can say that it's 1% beta. Sure there's something that still crashes from time to time! If not, let me upload some patches, and you'll see... lol Note: I am half kidding, half serious. - Juan José del Río| Comercio online / e-commerce (+34) 616 512 340| [EMAIL PROTECTED] Simple Option S.L. Tel: (+34) 951 930 122 Fax: (+34) 951 930 122 http://www.simpleoption.com On Tue, 2008-04-08 at 13:52 -0700, Rick Cobb wrote: Well, it's certainly compliant :-), but I suspect Mr. Jackson would object. If there's one thing aolserver ain't, it's beta. -- ReC -Original Message- From: AOLserver Discussion [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Juan José del Río (Simple Option) Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 12:44 PM To: AOLSERVER@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Subject: Re: [AOLSERVER] Minor facelift to aolserver.com What about this?! - Juan José del Río| Comercio online / e-commerce (+34) 616 512 340| [EMAIL PROTECTED] Simple Option S.L. Tel: (+34) 951 930 122 Fax: (+34) 951 930 122 http://www.simpleoption.com On Tue, 2008-04-08 at 14:29 -0400, Dossy Shiobara wrote: On 2008.04.08, Brett Schwarz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I threw this together http://www.bschwarz.com/aolserver.jpg with Gimp.. Now, I'm not a graphic's wiz, but I thought I would create something basic that we can start with, as a way to get to the design we want. I would be willing to *try* to make any suggested enhancements, but like I said, I am no graphics designer. Perhaps this will spark some momentum. It's awesome. Very Web 2.0 (gradient, reflection) ... an orange starburst and a swoosh would fully trick it out as a Web 2.0 treatment. Heh. I've used the logo. Can you send me the GIMP .xcf file for it? BTW, are there any legal matters that we need to be concerned with in creating a logo for aolserver? Good question. I really should have a serious conversation with AOL Legal about this issue. I'm hoping that as long as we stay away from the actual AOL logo treatment itself, we'll be okay ... but I'd like to get that in writing. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- Jade Rubick Acting Chief Technology Officer United eWay [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel (503)285-4963 fax (707)671-1333 www.UNITEDeWAY.org -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Minor facelift to aolserver.com
Something sort of like this, is what I was thinking about: http://www.bschwarz.com/aolserver2.jpg Although the orange color kind of changed when it was converted to jpg...it was originally more like what Juan had... - Original Message From: Brett Schwarz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: AOLSERVER@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2008 1:58:01 PM Subject: Re: [AOLSERVER] Minor facelift to aolserver.com I like the color. Not sure if Dossy was serious, but actually thinking about more...some sort of swoosh over the server part..in that color would look nice I think...but I'm biased...I like blue/orange color scheme... - Original Message From: Juan José del Río (Simple Option) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: AOLSERVER@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2008 12:43:57 PM Subject: Re: [AOLSERVER] Minor facelift to aolserver.com What about this?! - Juan José del Río| Comercio online / e-commerce (+34) 616 512 340| [EMAIL PROTECTED] Simple Option S.L. Tel: (+34) 951 930 122 Fax: (+34) 951 930 122 http://www.simpleoption.com On Tue, 2008-04-08 at 14:29 -0400, Dossy Shiobara wrote: On 2008.04.08, Brett Schwarz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I threw this together http://www.bschwarz.com/aolserver.jpg with Gimp. Now, I'm not a graphic's wiz, but I thought I would create something basic that we can start with, as a way to get to the design we want. I would be willing to *try* to make any suggested enhancements, but like I said, I am no graphics designer. Perhaps this will spark some momentum. It's awesome. Very Web 2.0 (gradient, reflection) ... an orange starburst and a swoosh would fully trick it out as a Web 2.0 treatment. Heh. I've used the logo. Can you send me the GIMP .xcf file for it? BTW, are there any legal matters that we need to be concerned with in creating a logo for aolserver? Good question. I really should have a serious conversation with AOL Legal about this issue. I'm hoping that as long as we stay away from the actual AOL logo treatment itself, we'll be okay ... but I'd like to get that in writing. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Minor facelift to aolserver.com
On Tuesday 08 April 2008 13:52, Rick Cobb wrote: Well, it's certainly compliant :-), but I suspect Mr. Jackson would object. If there's one thing aolserver ain't, it's beta. Well, at least he has a goal to achieve, and once we attract 'people' who are interested in developing beta grade software, we will surely get there very quickly. A cute logo isn't going to attract the level of developer who would be able to maintain AOLserver, much less provide a useful enhancement. But like I said: why not figure out what needs to be done...first. IMHO, by advertising the stability of the AOLserver API, you will attract users who would otherwise be correctly scared off by constant hacking. Another thing which might attract interest is if our current community members would write a brief application note explaining how they use AOLserver, and why they chose it over other potential platforms. Additionally, we could catalog sites known to run on AOLserver. My guess is that developers who have similar interests and motivations or similar problem solving skills as current community members will be attracted to the community. Given the fact that there have been only a handfull of CVS commits in the last year, I would venture to guess that most community members are happy with the current codebase, and that means that new community members will probably be looking for a mature project which allows them to focus on their own application, at least at first. Then, they may contribute a module which extends AOLserver. A quick look at all the modules in CVS suggests that this is the best way to contribute code, not by hacking on the core. Change for the sake of change will scare off any sane developer, we don't charge for upgrades, please remember this fact. tom jackson -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Minor facelift to aolserver.com
Good one there, Brett. As a suggestion: save it as PNG, that way colours won't change. Also, you can try starting the lines from the L itself, or more to the right than they're now. Or you can make them fade in from the L too... I don't know how to fix it exactly, but that I like the lines is a fact :) Good work :) On Tue, 2008-04-08 at 15:42 -0700, Brett Schwarz wrote: Something sort of like this, is what I was thinking about: http://www.bschwarz.com/aolserver2.jpg Although the orange color kind of changed when it was converted to jpgit was originally more like what Juan had... - Original Message From: Brett Schwarz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: AOLSERVER@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2008 1:58:01 PM Subject: Re: [AOLSERVER] Minor facelift to aolserver.com I like the color. Not sure if Dossy was serious, but actually thinking about more...some sort of swoosh over the server part..in that color would look nice I think...but I'm biased...I like blue/orange color scheme... - Original Message From: Juan José del Río (Simple Option) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: AOLSERVER@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2008 12:43:57 PM Subject: Re: [AOLSERVER] Minor facelift to aolserver.com What about this?! - Juan José del Río| Comercio online / e-commerce (+34) 616 512 340| [EMAIL PROTECTED] Simple Option S.L. Tel: (+34) 951 930 122 Fax: (+34) 951 930 122 http://www.simpleoption.com On Tue, 2008-04-08 at 14:29 -0400, Dossy Shiobara wrote: On 2008.04.08, Brett Schwarz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I threw this together http://www.bschwarz.com/aolserver.jpg with Gimp.. Now, I'm not a graphic's wiz, but I thought I would create something basic that we can start with, as a way to get to the design we want. I would be willing to *try* to make any suggested enhancements, but like I said, I am no graphics designer. Perhaps this will spark some momentum. It's awesome. Very Web 2.0 (gradient, reflection) ... an orange starburst and a swoosh would fully trick it out as a Web 2.0 treatment. Heh. I've used the logo. Can you send me the GIMP .xcf file for it? BTW, are there any legal matters that we need to be concerned with in creating a logo for aolserver? Good question. I really should have a serious conversation with AOL Legal about this issue. I'm hoping that as long as we stay away from the actual AOL logo treatment itself, we'll be okay ... but I'd like to get that in writing. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Minor facelift to aolserver.com
On 2008.04.09, Juan José del Río (Simple Option) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As a suggestion: save it as PNG, that way colours won't change. And, make sure to keep the original .xcf, so lossless changes can be made. :-) Also, you can try starting the lines from the L itself, or more to the right than they're now. Or you can make them fade in from the L too... I don't know how to fix it exactly, but that I like the lines is a fact :) I don't think the lines should fade in, but they should be staggered to match the slant of the L. I'll grab Brett's .xcf and see if I can make the change I'm talking about. Indeed, great work, Brett. Thanks for taking the initiative with this. -- Dossy Shiobara | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://dossy.org/ Panoptic Computer Network | http://panoptic.com/ He realized the fastest way to change is to laugh at your own folly -- then you can let go and quickly move on. (p. 70) -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Minor facelift to aolserver.com
OK, so I added one more horizontal line (so now there are 4 instead of 3), and added a slight single pixel step, to try and match the slant of the L. http://aolserver.com/images/aolserver.png http://aolserver.com/images/aolserver.xcf I'd like to redo the original .xcf - what font face and size did you use? Colors, etc. (Can you tell _I'm_ not a pixel jockey? I can't tell just from looking at what you did ... heh.) On 2008.04.08, Dossy Shiobara [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think the lines should fade in, but they should be staggered to match the slant of the L. I'll grab Brett's .xcf and see if I can make the change I'm talking about. Indeed, great work, Brett. Thanks for taking the initiative with this. -- Dossy Shiobara | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://dossy.org/ Panoptic Computer Network | http://panoptic.com/ He realized the fastest way to change is to laugh at your own folly -- then you can let go and quickly move on. (p. 70) -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Minor facelift to aolserver.com
actually, where I was going with this whole thing was trying to convey speed (meaing aolserver is fast). That's the reason I used italic text, and that's why the lines fade away from the 'L'. Oh well, I guess I didn't do a good enough job conveying that :( BTW, the xcf for the second version is at my website as well: aolserver2.xcf Here are the logos I have so far, with 2 additional based on Juan's commets'... the last 2 are png as well... http://bschwarz.com/aol_logo.html - Original Message From: Dossy Shiobara [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: AOLSERVER@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2008 5:24:45 PM Subject: Re: [AOLSERVER] Minor facelift to aolserver.com On 2008.04.09, Juan José del Río (Simple Option) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As a suggestion: save it as PNG, that way colours won't change. And, make sure to keep the original .xcf, so lossless changes can be made. :-) Also, you can try starting the lines from the L itself, or more to the right than they're now. Or you can make them fade in from the L too... I don't know how to fix it exactly, but that I like the lines is a fact :) I don't think the lines should fade in, but they should be staggered to match the slant of the L. I'll grab Brett's .xcf and see if I can make the change I'm talking about. Indeed, great work, Brett. Thanks for taking the initiative with this. -- Dossy Shiobara | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://dossy.org/ Panoptic Computer Network | http://panoptic.com/ He realized the fastest way to change is to laugh at your own folly -- then you can let go and quickly move on. (p. 70) -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Minor facelift to aolserver.com
Ah, ok...now I know what you meant about following the L...yes, that looks better. darn it...I thought by saving as xcf, Gimp would remember the colors, etc :( I believe I used Arial bold italic for the text. I think I started with the blues in the article I quoted, but ended up making them darker. The colors from the article were 6291c0 and cce6f9. Sorry about that...I should have noted everything...I don't play around with the Gimp much :( - Original Message From: Dossy Shiobara [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: AOLSERVER@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Sent: Tuesday, April 8, 2008 5:48:55 PM Subject: Re: [AOLSERVER] Minor facelift to aolserver.com OK, so I added one more horizontal line (so now there are 4 instead of 3), and added a slight single pixel step, to try and match the slant of the L. http://aolserver.com/images/aolserver.png http://aolserver.com/images/aolserver.xcf I'd like to redo the original .xcf - what font face and size did you use? Colors, etc. (Can you tell _I'm_ not a pixel jockey? I can't tell just from looking at what you did ... heh.) On 2008.04.08, Dossy Shiobara [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think the lines should fade in, but they should be staggered to match the slant of the L. I'll grab Brett's .xcf and see if I can make the change I'm talking about. Indeed, great work, Brett. Thanks for taking the initiative with this. -- Dossy Shiobara | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://dossy.org/ Panoptic Computer Network | http://panoptic.com/ He realized the fastest way to change is to laugh at your own folly -- then you can let go and quickly move on. (p. 70) -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Minor facelift to aolserver.com
Looks clean - but it *really* needs a logo to inject some motion. Surely AOL could spring a few bucks to get a nice web 3.0 logo made up? It's probably in their interest to have some AOL-inspired device in the logo. On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 1:23 AM, Dossy Shiobara [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 2008.04.05, Juan José del Río (Simple Option) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like it. The layout is very simple. The only thing that I don't like very much is the menu at the right. I think it'll be more clear if it's in the left. Given well-publicized eye-tracking heat maps, the top left hand side of a page is typically the hottest area. I favor putting the newest content there rather than the navigation--the navigation doesn't change, and users who are looking for it can easily find it. But, the new news on the page that will change more frequently than the navigation should start in the upper-left. Of course, I can certainly move the nav to the left and see if it feels better! Lets really start playing with the design until we eventually come up with something that we can all be proud of. Also, putting an AOLServer logo in the header, at the top left, would improve the site quite a lot. That's another thing: are there any graphic designers in the AOLserver community? We really need a logo. I thought about putting up a small amount of money to run a SitePoint logo design contest, but it would be great if someone in the community would contribute the logo. Anyways, thanks for your initiative. It's already better than it was before, imho. I think so, too. The aolserver.com site needs to become a focused piece of marketing collateral that explains the AOLserver value proposition, demonstrates our legacy of technical excellence, our competency at being a scalable web infrastructure--not just a web content server, but building entire application systems. IMHO, the first step is giving us a modern look and feel. I'm going to start working on authoring the content, but I would really appreciate the community coming together and participating in the effort. In the past, my calls for contributions have been mainly technical: documentation, code patches, etc. The response has typically been [I'm] not technical enough to contribute. I accepted that as the reality of the composition of our community. However, I'm now shifting focus to doing a lot of the non-technical activities that haven't been getting necessary attention over the years. I hope these are things that almost everyone can participate in and contribute towards. I hope that if we can successfully raise correct awareness of AOLserver, it's capabilities and competencies, we will in turn attract the necessary technical individuals to in turn work on the technical aspects of the project that are also necessary. What does everyone think? -- Dossy -- Dossy Shiobara | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://dossy.org/ Panoptic Computer Network | http://panoptic.com/ He realized the fastest way to change is to laugh at your own folly -- then you can let go and quickly move on. (p. 70) -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank. -- Mark Aufflick contact info at http://mark.aufflick.com/about/contact -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Minor facelift to aolserver.com
On 2008.04.08, Mark Aufflick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Looks clean - but it *really* needs a logo to inject some motion. I agree; I'd like a modern and attractive logo treatment, along with a few key icons for downloads, documentation, community ... Surely AOL could spring a few bucks to get a nice web 3.0 logo made up? It's probably in their interest to have some AOL-inspired device in the logo. At this point, I would venture to say that AOL's participation in AOLserver is limited to simply being its namesake. I would not expect any direct contribution from AOL at this point. I, however, may be inclined to put up a few hundred dollars toward a SitePoint design contest for a new logo, if it wouldn't go to waste. I often wonder: with so few contributors, how much investment does it really justify? I wrote this in an email to Jim Davidson privately, earlier today: |The problem with secure and reliable software is you [the software |developer] really have no leverage to _make_ people upgrade. |Insecurity and instability are actually a benefit to open source |projects because users are forced into upgrading--not to keep |current, but just to keep functioning. AOLserver is part of the application stack that once you get over the initial hurdle of installing and configuring it, people pretty much forget all about it. System administrators aren't watching for security notices and planning upgrades all the time for it. Application developers aren't pushing management to upgrade to the latest and greatest version in order to implement some new features to their application. On one hand, these are exactly the reasons why I prefer AOLserver over the alternatives: it's mature, it's stable, it's a very known quantity. On the other hand, it makes forming an active and engaged community very challenging. I'm at the point where I no longer ask myself how do I change this but is there really any need to change this? If you answer yes ... I'd like to hear your reasons why. -- Dossy -- Dossy Shiobara | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://dossy.org/ Panoptic Computer Network | http://panoptic.com/ He realized the fastest way to change is to laugh at your own folly -- then you can let go and quickly move on. (p. 70) -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Minor facelift to aolserver.com
On Monday 07 April 2008 20:46, Dossy Shiobara wrote: I wrote this in an email to Jim Davidson privately, earlier today: |The problem with secure and reliable software is you [the software |developer] really have no leverage to _make_ people upgrade. |Insecurity and instability are actually a benefit to open source |projects because users are forced into upgrading--not to keep |current, but just to keep functioning. Dossy, your goals are at extreme odds to most anyone I know. Maybe join the Microsoft team so you can _make_ people upgrade. One question I have is why you think it is important to have an 'active and engaged community' if there is very little left to do? It is baffling why something which works needs to have active development, which forces users to upgrade for no good reason. I'm at the point where I no longer ask myself how do I change this but is there really any need to change this? If you answer yes ... I'd like to hear your reasons why. People who actually care about community, ask first. When have you ever, honestly, done that? If only you would follow your own advice and say why you are changing stuff before you do it, that might help quite a lot, I haven't been able to detect any reason behind your changes. Personally I always ask is there really any need to change this, that is the first question, and with AOLserver, the answer is usually 'no'. Instead of focusing on content, you seem stuck on changing software tools, tools which nobody uses, and then there is a plea for icons and logos. This is total bs. Can we get back to the basics here? This is not some php project which needs eye candy to attract teenagers to hack at source code. The bottom line is that until you articulate what you want to do, discussing how you want to do it is a waste of time. AOLserver source code has arrived. Trying to create a community around a desire for change is an extremely destructive idea. Most everyone using AOLserver is very happy with the stability of the code. If they are not happy, they are very likely misinformed, so who cares. What is missing is documentation. We have a structured documentation which was derailed a few years back by the wiki idea. Now we have a new wiki tool, or whatever wordpress is. Yet we have no new content. Wonder why? I would venture to guess that nobody here cares at all to learn wiki or wordpress in order to document source code. Anyway, you asked. tom jackson -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Minor facelift to aolserver.com
Hello Dossy, I like it. The layout is very simple. The only thing that I don't like very much is the menu at the right. I think it'll be more clear if it's in the left. Also, putting an AOLServer logo in the header, at the top left, would improve the site quite a lot. Anyways, thanks for your initiative. It's already better than it was before, imho. Kind Regards, Juan José On Fri, 2008-04-04 at 22:27 -0400, Dossy Shiobara wrote: Hi, Tonight, I pushed the static content from the aolserver.com homepage into WordPress 2.5. The current theme/design is minimal, but I'm hoping that someone will volunteer to help provide a web design that's modern and attractive. If you spot any broken links, please let me know ASAP. Thanks, -- Dossy -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
Re: [AOLSERVER] Minor facelift to aolserver.com
On 2008.04.05, Juan José del Río (Simple Option) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like it. The layout is very simple. The only thing that I don't like very much is the menu at the right. I think it'll be more clear if it's in the left. Given well-publicized eye-tracking heat maps, the top left hand side of a page is typically the hottest area. I favor putting the newest content there rather than the navigation--the navigation doesn't change, and users who are looking for it can easily find it. But, the new news on the page that will change more frequently than the navigation should start in the upper-left. Of course, I can certainly move the nav to the left and see if it feels better! Lets really start playing with the design until we eventually come up with something that we can all be proud of. Also, putting an AOLServer logo in the header, at the top left, would improve the site quite a lot. That's another thing: are there any graphic designers in the AOLserver community? We really need a logo. I thought about putting up a small amount of money to run a SitePoint logo design contest, but it would be great if someone in the community would contribute the logo. Anyways, thanks for your initiative. It's already better than it was before, imho. I think so, too. The aolserver.com site needs to become a focused piece of marketing collateral that explains the AOLserver value proposition, demonstrates our legacy of technical excellence, our competency at being a scalable web infrastructure--not just a web content server, but building entire application systems. IMHO, the first step is giving us a modern look and feel. I'm going to start working on authoring the content, but I would really appreciate the community coming together and participating in the effort. In the past, my calls for contributions have been mainly technical: documentation, code patches, etc. The response has typically been [I'm] not technical enough to contribute. I accepted that as the reality of the composition of our community. However, I'm now shifting focus to doing a lot of the non-technical activities that haven't been getting necessary attention over the years. I hope these are things that almost everyone can participate in and contribute towards. I hope that if we can successfully raise correct awareness of AOLserver, it's capabilities and competencies, we will in turn attract the necessary technical individuals to in turn work on the technical aspects of the project that are also necessary. What does everyone think? -- Dossy -- Dossy Shiobara | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://dossy.org/ Panoptic Computer Network | http://panoptic.com/ He realized the fastest way to change is to laugh at your own folly -- then you can let go and quickly move on. (p. 70) -- AOLserver - http://www.aolserver.com/ To Remove yourself from this list, simply send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body of SIGNOFF AOLSERVER in the email message. You can leave the Subject: field of your email blank.
