RE: [on-asterisk] Asterisk 1 Gigabit Internet.
Thanks Bill and John for a very information dialogue. Now from the user point of view... Is there any ISP still providing unlimited internet access for residential consumers? By mentioning residential I mean at a reasonable price ($60 is not reasonable for residential consumer) I remember in a TAUG meeting on IPv6 topic many of wanted to distinguish REAL ISPs from the telco(s). I remember some ISP owners being there as well. Now, are these Real ISPs are affected by the CRTC verdict and have to do UBB? Are they still dependant on Bell? Regards, Ehsan -Original Message- From: John Lange [mailto:j...@johnlange.ca] Sent: December-23-10 10:55 AM To: Bill Sandiford Cc: TAUG Technical Subject: Re: [on-asterisk] Asterisk 1 Gigabit Internet. Yes, I'm talking about retail collocation. I'm just using that as an example of just how out of whack their costing pricing can be. Thanks for your info Bill. It's been quite informative. John On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 1:20 PM, Bill Sandiford b...@telnetcommunications.com wrote: I don't know where you get the $450 figure from. Perhaps you are confusing CO collocation with their retail collocation at data centres like 151 Front. In fact, there isn't a meet-me room in Bell central offices. All charges for Bell's collocation in their central offices are located in AST 7516 Item 110. In fact, to make it easy...here is a link: http://www.bce.ca/en/aboutbce/regulatoryinformation/tarrifs/index.php/ItemVi ew.asp?Tariff=7516%20Part=%20%20%202%20%20%20%20%20%20Item=%20%20110%20%20 %20%20%20 Bill - To unsubscribe, e-mail: asterisk-unsubscr...@uc.org For additional commands, e-mail: asterisk-h...@uc.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: asterisk-unsubscr...@uc.org For additional commands, e-mail: asterisk-h...@uc.org
Re: [on-asterisk] Asterisk 1 Gigabit Internet.
Yes, I'm talking about retail collocation. I'm just using that as an example of just how out of whack their costing pricing can be. Thanks for your info Bill. It's been quite informative. John On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 1:20 PM, Bill Sandiford b...@telnetcommunications.com wrote: I don't know where you get the $450 figure from. Perhaps you are confusing CO collocation with their retail collocation at data centres like 151 Front. In fact, there isn't a meet-me room in Bell central offices. All charges for Bell's collocation in their central offices are located in AST 7516 Item 110. In fact, to make it easy...here is a link: http://www.bce.ca/en/aboutbce/regulatoryinformation/tarrifs/index.php/ItemView.asp?Tariff=7516%20Part=%20%20%202%20%20%20%20%20%20Item=%20%20110%20%20%20%20%20 Bill - To unsubscribe, e-mail: asterisk-unsubscr...@uc.org For additional commands, e-mail: asterisk-h...@uc.org
Re: [on-asterisk] Asterisk 1 Gigabit Internet.
Okay, well perhaps I was a little too hard on the CRTC but the limited amount of competition in this industry is the main reason we don't have low cost bandwidth and services that give the consumer what the want. Henry n Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 11:50 PM, Bruce N het...@hotmail.com wrote: I think Cogeco is the only provider who comes close to what you might want but they operate more to the west of Toronto (I mean cities west of Toronto). 50Mbps download - Upload unknown - I haven't tested it though but $99 sounds fine. http://www.cogeco.ca/cable/on/en/residential/internet/hsi/explore_hsi.html -Bruce Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 10:51:10 -0600 From: j...@johnlange.ca To: asterisk@uc.org Subject: Re: [on-asterisk] Asterisk 1 Gigabit Internet. The root problem is lack of competition. We have no competition because under our foreign ownership regime, Canada does not allow any. Unfortunately the CRTC are not helping matters, their board consists of ex Bell and Cable people who are very conservative; to the point of choking off any competition before is viable. I'm not a big fan of the CRTC for a lot of reasons but on this particular issue I always feel I have to defend them. The fact is, the CRTC was taking steps to increase competition and one of the first things the Conservatives did when they came to power in 2007 was order them to stop. Here is a nice little article in an archive that explains just how ticked off the bureaucrats at the CRTC were at the Conservatives (conform or quit): http://www.pugetsoundradio.com/cgi-bin/forum/Blah.pl?v-print/m-1170784107/ And an original story from the CBC that explains what the government did and how happy the incumbents were: http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2006/06/13/crtc.html The Conservatives have also not lifted the foreign ownership restrictions in Telecom despite several bi-partisan reports that recommended they do so. As recently as this November, Tony Clement announced they would not be allowing competition (foreign owned companies) in Canadian Telecom any time soon. So on this one, it's squarely in the hands of the politicians, not the CRTC. Not to promote my own blog on this list but I've written extensively on competition, deregulation and the CRTC including a whole post on the favorite Canadian sport of bashing the CRTC for everything: http://www.johnlange.ca/2008/07/16/apparently-the-crtc-is-to-blame-for-everything/ -- John Lange www.johnlange.ca - To unsubscribe, e-mail: asterisk-unsubscr...@uc.org For additional commands, e-mail: asterisk-h...@uc.org -- *Henry L. Coleman * ***Per: VoIP-PBX.ca * * *
Re: [on-asterisk] Asterisk 1 Gigabit Internet.
Has anyone in the group installed their own DSLAMs to provide DSL services and could comment on pricing to do so? I suspect the cost of internet bandwidth is pretty low. The cost is probably on deploying last mile access that is expansive. And then there's maintenance of copper loops, My point is I don't think the cost of bandwidth is high, but the cost to deliver it is very high in Canada considering all the distance we need to cover to connect everyone. Our cities are not as dense as Asian cities or European cities. Don't take my words on it, but I would like to see someone who has the experience in this field to comment on the cost to deploy high speed access. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! Stephan Monette Unlimitel Inc. Tel.: 1-877-464-6638 Fax: (613) 482-1077 On 2010-12-22, at 9:56 AM, Henry Coleman wrote: Okay, well perhaps I was a little too hard on the CRTC but the limited amount of competition in this industry is the main reason we don't have low cost bandwidth and services that give the consumer what the want. Henry n Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 11:50 PM, Bruce N het...@hotmail.com wrote: I think Cogeco is the only provider who comes close to what you might want but they operate more to the west of Toronto (I mean cities west of Toronto). 50Mbps download - Upload unknown - I haven't tested it though but $99 sounds fine. http://www.cogeco.ca/cable/on/en/residential/internet/hsi/explore_hsi.html -Bruce Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 10:51:10 -0600 From: j...@johnlange.ca To: asterisk@uc.org Subject: Re: [on-asterisk] Asterisk 1 Gigabit Internet. The root problem is lack of competition. We have no competition because under our foreign ownership regime, Canada does not allow any. Unfortunately the CRTC are not helping matters, their board consists of ex Bell and Cable people who are very conservative; to the point of choking off any competition before is viable. I'm not a big fan of the CRTC for a lot of reasons but on this particular issue I always feel I have to defend them. The fact is, the CRTC was taking steps to increase competition and one of the first things the Conservatives did when they came to power in 2007 was order them to stop. Here is a nice little article in an archive that explains just how ticked off the bureaucrats at the CRTC were at the Conservatives (conform or quit): http://www.pugetsoundradio.com/cgi-bin/forum/Blah.pl?v-print/m-1170784107/ And an original story from the CBC that explains what the government did and how happy the incumbents were: http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2006/06/13/crtc.html The Conservatives have also not lifted the foreign ownership restrictions in Telecom despite several bi-partisan reports that recommended they do so. As recently as this November, Tony Clement announced they would not be allowing competition (foreign owned companies) in Canadian Telecom any time soon. So on this one, it's squarely in the hands of the politicians, not the CRTC. Not to promote my own blog on this list but I've written extensively on competition, deregulation and the CRTC including a whole post on the favorite Canadian sport of bashing the CRTC for everything: http://www.johnlange.ca/2008/07/16/apparently-the-crtc-is-to-blame-for-everything/ -- John Lange www.johnlange.ca - To unsubscribe, e-mail: asterisk-unsubscr...@uc.org For additional commands, e-mail: asterisk-h...@uc.org -- *Henry L. Coleman * ***Per: VoIP-PBX.ca * * * - To unsubscribe, e-mail: asterisk-unsubscr...@uc.org For additional commands, e-mail: asterisk-h...@uc.org
RE: [on-asterisk] Asterisk 1 Gigabit Internet.
We have done it in selected areas. It's not cheap to deploy and/or operate. It is about $125k per Bell CO by the time you deploy an initial DSLAM with limited configuration (ie not fully loaded). We have 4 of them done Oshawa Toronto - Adelaide Toronto - Simcoe Toronto - Asquith We will be doing 3 or 4 more next year. One of the bigger costs that people don't realize is the backhaul from the CO back to our network at 151 Front (or wherever). Backhaul is expensive. The other problem is that because of the ever expanding use of remotes, the number of customers that can be served from remotes is going down. In a suburban central office like Oshawa we can get to about 25% of the population from the CO. In an a dense urban CO like the 3 downtown Toronto COs we are in we can get to about 65%. The other advantage is that when we can reach the customer from the CO we can use ADSL2+ including Annex M or if customers really need it we can do SDSL at up to 5.7 Mbps per pair. Bill -Original Message- From: Stephan Monette [mailto:monet...@unlimitel.ca] Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 10:09 AM To: Henry Coleman Cc: TAUG Technical Subject: Re: [on-asterisk] Asterisk 1 Gigabit Internet. Has anyone in the group installed their own DSLAMs to provide DSL services and could comment on pricing to do so? I suspect the cost of internet bandwidth is pretty low. The cost is probably on deploying last mile access that is expansive. And then there's maintenance of copper loops, My point is I don't think the cost of bandwidth is high, but the cost to deliver it is very high in Canada considering all the distance we need to cover to connect everyone. Our cities are not as dense as Asian cities or European cities. Don't take my words on it, but I would like to see someone who has the experience in this field to comment on the cost to deploy high speed access. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! Stephan Monette Unlimitel Inc. Tel.: 1-877-464-6638 Fax: (613) 482-1077 On 2010-12-22, at 9:56 AM, Henry Coleman wrote: Okay, well perhaps I was a little too hard on the CRTC but the limited amount of competition in this industry is the main reason we don't have low cost bandwidth and services that give the consumer what the want. Henry n Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 11:50 PM, Bruce N het...@hotmail.com wrote: I think Cogeco is the only provider who comes close to what you might want but they operate more to the west of Toronto (I mean cities west of Toronto). 50Mbps download - Upload unknown - I haven't tested it though but $99 sounds fine. http://www.cogeco.ca/cable/on/en/residential/internet/hsi/explore_hsi.h tml -Bruce Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 10:51:10 -0600 From: j...@johnlange.ca To: asterisk@uc.org Subject: Re: [on-asterisk] Asterisk 1 Gigabit Internet. The root problem is lack of competition. We have no competition because under our foreign ownership regime, Canada does not allow any. Unfortunately the CRTC are not helping matters, their board consists of ex Bell and Cable people who are very conservative; to the point of choking off any competition before is viable. I'm not a big fan of the CRTC for a lot of reasons but on this particular issue I always feel I have to defend them. The fact is, the CRTC was taking steps to increase competition and one of the first things the Conservatives did when they came to power in 2007 was order them to stop. Here is a nice little article in an archive that explains just how ticked off the bureaucrats at the CRTC were at the Conservatives (conform or quit): http://www.pugetsoundradio.com/cgi-bin/forum/Blah.pl?v-print/m- 1170784107/ And an original story from the CBC that explains what the government did and how happy the incumbents were: http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2006/06/13/crtc.html The Conservatives have also not lifted the foreign ownership restrictions in Telecom despite several bi-partisan reports that recommended they do so. As recently as this November, Tony Clement announced they would not be allowing competition (foreign owned companies) in Canadian Telecom any time soon. So on this one, it's squarely in the hands of the politicians, not the CRTC. Not to promote my own blog on this list but I've written extensively on competition, deregulation and the CRTC including a whole post on the favorite Canadian sport of bashing the CRTC for everything: http://www.johnlange.ca/2008/07/16/apparently-the-crtc-is-to-blame- for-everything/ -- John Lange www.johnlange.ca --- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: asterisk-unsubscr...@uc.org For additional commands, e-mail: asterisk-h...@uc.org -- *Henry L. Coleman * ***Per: VoIP-PBX.ca
Re: [on-asterisk] Asterisk 1 Gigabit Internet.
My experience is about ten years old. I was working for Global Telesys (GTS). We leased a lot of dark fiber though-out Russia. Telco's were flush with investment money. Regulations were non-existent and a little sweetener here and there got permission from local officials to run the cables through someone's sitting room if required. In a regulated and open society (Canada) it is much more difficult to build infrastructure, planning permission, surveys, political considerations, SLAs all contribute to the cost and time needed to build large projects. Henry PS.. A merry Christmas and happy new year to the TAUG On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 10:09 AM, Stephan Monette monet...@unlimitel.cawrote: Has anyone in the group installed their own DSLAMs to provide DSL services and could comment on pricing to do so? I suspect the cost of internet bandwidth is pretty low. The cost is probably on deploying last mile access that is expansive. And then there's maintenance of copper loops, My point is I don't think the cost of bandwidth is high, but the cost to deliver it is very high in Canada considering all the distance we need to cover to connect everyone. Our cities are not as dense as Asian cities or European cities. Don't take my words on it, but I would like to see someone who has the experience in this field to comment on the cost to deploy high speed access. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! Stephan Monette Unlimitel Inc. Tel.: 1-877-464-6638 Fax: (613) 482-1077 On 2010-12-22, at 9:56 AM, Henry Coleman wrote: Okay, well perhaps I was a little too hard on the CRTC but the limited amount of competition in this industry is the main reason we don't have low cost bandwidth and services that give the consumer what the want. Henry n Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 11:50 PM, Bruce N het...@hotmail.com wrote: I think Cogeco is the only provider who comes close to what you might want but they operate more to the west of Toronto (I mean cities west of Toronto). 50Mbps download - Upload unknown - I haven't tested it though but $99 sounds fine. http://www.cogeco.ca/cable/on/en/residential/internet/hsi/explore_hsi.html -Bruce Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 10:51:10 -0600 From: j...@johnlange.ca To: asterisk@uc.org Subject: Re: [on-asterisk] Asterisk 1 Gigabit Internet. The root problem is lack of competition. We have no competition because under our foreign ownership regime, Canada does not allow any. Unfortunately the CRTC are not helping matters, their board consists of ex Bell and Cable people who are very conservative; to the point of choking off any competition before is viable. I'm not a big fan of the CRTC for a lot of reasons but on this particular issue I always feel I have to defend them. The fact is, the CRTC was taking steps to increase competition and one of the first things the Conservatives did when they came to power in 2007 was order them to stop. Here is a nice little article in an archive that explains just how ticked off the bureaucrats at the CRTC were at the Conservatives (conform or quit): http://www.pugetsoundradio.com/cgi-bin/forum/Blah.pl?v-print/m-1170784107/ And an original story from the CBC that explains what the government did and how happy the incumbents were: http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2006/06/13/crtc.html The Conservatives have also not lifted the foreign ownership restrictions in Telecom despite several bi-partisan reports that recommended they do so. As recently as this November, Tony Clement announced they would not be allowing competition (foreign owned companies) in Canadian Telecom any time soon. So on this one, it's squarely in the hands of the politicians, not the CRTC. Not to promote my own blog on this list but I've written extensively on competition, deregulation and the CRTC including a whole post on the favorite Canadian sport of bashing the CRTC for everything: http://www.johnlange.ca/2008/07/16/apparently-the-crtc-is-to-blame-for-everything/ -- John Lange www.johnlange.ca - To unsubscribe, e-mail: asterisk-unsubscr...@uc.org For additional commands, e-mail: asterisk-h...@uc.org -- *Henry L. Coleman * ***Per: VoIP-PBX.ca * * * -- *Henry L. Coleman * ***Per: VoIP-PBX.ca * * *
Re: [on-asterisk] Asterisk 1 Gigabit Internet.
Bill, couple of follow up questions. Is it true that the co-location charges for locating the DSLAM at the CO are very high? When you say backhaul, are you talking about the connection from your DSLAM back to your network? I had heard that ILECs are increasingly building fibre to the pedestal and locating there DSLAMs there to reduce the length of the copper and increase speeds. Doesn't this effectively eliminate your ability to compete since you aren't allowed to do the same? -- John Lange www.johnlange.ca - To unsubscribe, e-mail: asterisk-unsubscr...@uc.org For additional commands, e-mail: asterisk-h...@uc.org
RE: [on-asterisk] Asterisk 1 Gigabit Internet.
John: The actual monthly co-location charges in the Bell CO for space are very affordable. Monthly charges for power is reasonable (could be better), setup costs of the power are ridiculous ($15k plus for 30amps of DC power). The big cost is the exorbitant fees they charge just to setup your colo area. For example $20,000 of project management fees, $2,000 for a fluorescent light fixture (x3), $1,500 for an AC plug to be used for test gear only, etc, etc, etc. For backhaul, yes that is what I'm talking about. The cost to get from the Bell CO back to our network. As for your last point, yes you are correct. That is what I was talking about when I referred to only being able to reach approximately 25% of our target market from the CO. Regards, Bill -Original Message- From: John Lange [mailto:j...@johnlange.ca] Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 11:56 AM To: Bill Sandiford Cc: TAUG Technical Subject: Re: [on-asterisk] Asterisk 1 Gigabit Internet. Bill, couple of follow up questions. Is it true that the co-location charges for locating the DSLAM at the CO are very high? When you say backhaul, are you talking about the connection from your DSLAM back to your network? I had heard that ILECs are increasingly building fibre to the pedestal and locating there DSLAMs there to reduce the length of the copper and increase speeds. Doesn't this effectively eliminate your ability to compete since you aren't allowed to do the same? -- John Lange www.johnlange.ca - To unsubscribe, e-mail: asterisk-unsubscr...@uc.org For additional commands, e-mail: asterisk-h...@uc.org
Re: [on-asterisk] Asterisk 1 Gigabit Internet.
On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 10:57 AM, Bill Sandiford b...@telnetcommunications.com wrote: The big cost is the exorbitant fees they charge just to setup your colo area. You could file a Part VII with the CRTC requesting that they review and vary the charges. Have any competitive DSL providers tried that? Problem is all the costing is submitted to the CRTC in secret so it's pretty hard to challenge anything. As for your last point, yes you are correct. That is what I was talking about when I referred to only being able to reach approximately 25% of our target market from the CO. I'm surprised to hear that you are moving ahead with co-lo DSLAM given that percentage of customers will continue to decline. Is there something in place that will allow you access to the pedestal in the future? Bell could turn around tomorrow and convert all their peds to DSLAMs with fibre and you'd be screwed. Co-Lo DSLAM (along with Third Party Access for cable DSL) was the CRTC's original vision for competition in broadband. Largely it has failed for the following reasons: 1) CRTC allowed the ILECs Cable Co's to set the above mentioned insane setup and co-lo charges. This might not have been a show stopper if companies were able to get foreign investment but alas, Canada does not allow it. 2) Even if you do invest in a co-lo DSLAM, the only way to get the traffic out is to buy access from the ILEC and this is unregulated. Even if you ran your own fibre, you still have to pay insane monthly cable management fees. On top of that, in most places in the country there are only 2 ways to the internet, the ILEC or the Cable co. so you pay them again. It's an impossible business model which is why virtually nobody is doing it. -- John Lange www.johnlange.ca - To unsubscribe, e-mail: asterisk-unsubscr...@uc.org For additional commands, e-mail: asterisk-h...@uc.org
RE: [on-asterisk] Asterisk 1 Gigabit Internet.
John: We are only moving ahead with additional CO collocates under very specific circumstances. 1) We already have a sufficient volume of customers from that CO to justify the expense. 2) Backhaul can be obtained affordably 3) Any other tangible benefits from that CO that could be of value to us as a CLEC With regards to your point 2 at the bottom, we don't pay the ILEC to get out of the CO in any of our CO collocates and in one case we build our own dark fibre. In that case the cable management fees that you refer to were very affordable. Bill -Original Message- From: John Lange [mailto:j...@johnlange.ca] Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 1:23 PM To: Bill Sandiford Cc: TAUG Technical Subject: Re: [on-asterisk] Asterisk 1 Gigabit Internet. On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 10:57 AM, Bill Sandiford b...@telnetcommunications.com wrote: The big cost is the exorbitant fees they charge just to setup your colo area. You could file a Part VII with the CRTC requesting that they review and vary the charges. Have any competitive DSL providers tried that? Problem is all the costing is submitted to the CRTC in secret so it's pretty hard to challenge anything. As for your last point, yes you are correct. That is what I was talking about when I referred to only being able to reach approximately 25% of our target market from the CO. I'm surprised to hear that you are moving ahead with co-lo DSLAM given that percentage of customers will continue to decline. Is there something in place that will allow you access to the pedestal in the future? Bell could turn around tomorrow and convert all their peds to DSLAMs with fibre and you'd be screwed. Co-Lo DSLAM (along with Third Party Access for cable DSL) was the CRTC's original vision for competition in broadband. Largely it has failed for the following reasons: 1) CRTC allowed the ILECs Cable Co's to set the above mentioned insane setup and co-lo charges. This might not have been a show stopper if companies were able to get foreign investment but alas, Canada does not allow it. 2) Even if you do invest in a co-lo DSLAM, the only way to get the traffic out is to buy access from the ILEC and this is unregulated. Even if you ran your own fibre, you still have to pay insane monthly cable management fees. On top of that, in most places in the country there are only 2 ways to the internet, the ILEC or the Cable co. so you pay them again. It's an impossible business model which is why virtually nobody is doing it. -- John Lange www.johnlange.ca - To unsubscribe, e-mail: asterisk-unsubscr...@uc.org For additional commands, e-mail: asterisk-h...@uc.org
Re: [on-asterisk] Asterisk 1 Gigabit Internet.
Bill, What percentage of your total cost does the copper loop represent per subscriber? Thanks, Stephan Monette Unlimitel Inc. Tel.: 1-877-464-6638 Fax: (613) 482-1077 On 2010-12-22, at 1:32 PM, Bill Sandiford wrote: John: We are only moving ahead with additional CO collocates under very specific circumstances. 1) We already have a sufficient volume of customers from that CO to justify the expense. 2) Backhaul can be obtained affordably 3) Any other tangible benefits from that CO that could be of value to us as a CLEC With regards to your point 2 at the bottom, we don't pay the ILEC to get out of the CO in any of our CO collocates and in one case we build our own dark fibre. In that case the cable management fees that you refer to were very affordable. Bill -Original Message- From: John Lange [mailto:j...@johnlange.ca] Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 1:23 PM To: Bill Sandiford Cc: TAUG Technical Subject: Re: [on-asterisk] Asterisk 1 Gigabit Internet. On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 10:57 AM, Bill Sandiford b...@telnetcommunications.com wrote: The big cost is the exorbitant fees they charge just to setup your colo area. You could file a Part VII with the CRTC requesting that they review and vary the charges. Have any competitive DSL providers tried that? Problem is all the costing is submitted to the CRTC in secret so it's pretty hard to challenge anything. As for your last point, yes you are correct. That is what I was talking about when I referred to only being able to reach approximately 25% of our target market from the CO. I'm surprised to hear that you are moving ahead with co-lo DSLAM given that percentage of customers will continue to decline. Is there something in place that will allow you access to the pedestal in the future? Bell could turn around tomorrow and convert all their peds to DSLAMs with fibre and you'd be screwed. Co-Lo DSLAM (along with Third Party Access for cable DSL) was the CRTC's original vision for competition in broadband. Largely it has failed for the following reasons: 1) CRTC allowed the ILECs Cable Co's to set the above mentioned insane setup and co-lo charges. This might not have been a show stopper if companies were able to get foreign investment but alas, Canada does not allow it. 2) Even if you do invest in a co-lo DSLAM, the only way to get the traffic out is to buy access from the ILEC and this is unregulated. Even if you ran your own fibre, you still have to pay insane monthly cable management fees. On top of that, in most places in the country there are only 2 ways to the internet, the ILEC or the Cable co. so you pay them again. It's an impossible business model which is why virtually nobody is doing it. -- John Lange www.johnlange.ca - To unsubscribe, e-mail: asterisk-unsubscr...@uc.org For additional commands, e-mail: asterisk-h...@uc.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: asterisk-unsubscr...@uc.org For additional commands, e-mail: asterisk-h...@uc.org
RE: [on-asterisk] Asterisk 1 Gigabit Internet.
It depends. If they already have a Bell phone line and we are simply adding OUR service on top of their Bell POTS line, it is very minimal (mainly because the cost of the loop is borne by their POTS service with Bell. If it is a dry-loop, or we are providing the POTS service, it is the Type A unbundled loop rate from the LNI tariff. So for Band A, about $8.50, for Band B about $12.50, and it goes up from there. Anything higher than Band E is cost prohibitive. Bill -Original Message- From: Stephan Monette [mailto:monet...@unlimitel.ca] Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 1:39 PM To: Bill Sandiford Cc: 'John Lange'; TAUG Technical Subject: Re: [on-asterisk] Asterisk 1 Gigabit Internet. Bill, What percentage of your total cost does the copper loop represent per subscriber? Thanks, Stephan Monette Unlimitel Inc. Tel.: 1-877-464-6638 Fax: (613) 482-1077 On 2010-12-22, at 1:32 PM, Bill Sandiford wrote: John: We are only moving ahead with additional CO collocates under very specific circumstances. 1) We already have a sufficient volume of customers from that CO to justify the expense. 2) Backhaul can be obtained affordably 3) Any other tangible benefits from that CO that could be of value to us as a CLEC With regards to your point 2 at the bottom, we don't pay the ILEC to get out of the CO in any of our CO collocates and in one case we build our own dark fibre. In that case the cable management fees that you refer to were very affordable. Bill -Original Message- From: John Lange [mailto:j...@johnlange.ca] Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 1:23 PM To: Bill Sandiford Cc: TAUG Technical Subject: Re: [on-asterisk] Asterisk 1 Gigabit Internet. On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 10:57 AM, Bill Sandiford b...@telnetcommunications.com wrote: The big cost is the exorbitant fees they charge just to setup your colo area. You could file a Part VII with the CRTC requesting that they review and vary the charges. Have any competitive DSL providers tried that? Problem is all the costing is submitted to the CRTC in secret so it's pretty hard to challenge anything. As for your last point, yes you are correct. That is what I was talking about when I referred to only being able to reach approximately 25% of our target market from the CO. I'm surprised to hear that you are moving ahead with co-lo DSLAM given that percentage of customers will continue to decline. Is there something in place that will allow you access to the pedestal in the future? Bell could turn around tomorrow and convert all their peds to DSLAMs with fibre and you'd be screwed. Co-Lo DSLAM (along with Third Party Access for cable DSL) was the CRTC's original vision for competition in broadband. Largely it has failed for the following reasons: 1) CRTC allowed the ILECs Cable Co's to set the above mentioned insane setup and co-lo charges. This might not have been a show stopper if companies were able to get foreign investment but alas, Canada does not allow it. 2) Even if you do invest in a co-lo DSLAM, the only way to get the traffic out is to buy access from the ILEC and this is unregulated. Even if you ran your own fibre, you still have to pay insane monthly cable management fees. On top of that, in most places in the country there are only 2 ways to the internet, the ILEC or the Cable co. so you pay them again. It's an impossible business model which is why virtually nobody is doing it. -- John Lange www.johnlange.ca - To unsubscribe, e-mail: asterisk-unsubscr...@uc.org For additional commands, e-mail: asterisk-h...@uc.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: asterisk-unsubscr...@uc.org For additional commands, e-mail: asterisk-h...@uc.org
Re: [on-asterisk] Asterisk 1 Gigabit Internet.
On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 12:32 PM, Bill Sandiford b...@telnetcommunications.com wrote: John: We are only moving ahead with additional CO collocates under very specific circumstances. 1) We already have a sufficient volume of customers from that CO to justify the expense. 2) Backhaul can be obtained affordably 3) Any other tangible benefits from that CO that could be of value to us as a CLEC With regards to your point 2 at the bottom, we don't pay the ILEC to get out of the CO in any of our CO collocates and in one case we build our own dark fibre. In that case the cable management fees that you refer to were very affordable. Interesting. My guess is it's quite different in Toronto where there are already lots of other providers in a given CO which results in some options. Pretty much everywhere else in the country there is only one way in and out of the CO and that's via the ILEC. As for cable management, Bell charges us $450/mo to manage a single ethernet cable to the meetme room with none of their equipment on either end. That's not reasonable in my books... -- John Lange www.johnlange.ca - To unsubscribe, e-mail: asterisk-unsubscr...@uc.org For additional commands, e-mail: asterisk-h...@uc.org
Re: [on-asterisk] Asterisk 1 Gigabit Internet.
Stephan Monette wrote: Has anyone in the group installed their own DSLAMs to provide DSL services and could comment on pricing to do so? I have installed DSLAM shelves, but I have no idea of the cost, as I was only the technician. However, the DSLAM shelf is only part of the equation. You also have to get bandwidth to it and also arrange for the copper pair etc. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: asterisk-unsubscr...@uc.org For additional commands, e-mail: asterisk-h...@uc.org
Re: [on-asterisk] Asterisk 1 Gigabit Internet.
Reza - Asterisk Consultant wrote: ** synchronous** I believe you mean symetrical, that is the same bandwidth in both directions. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: asterisk-unsubscr...@uc.org For additional commands, e-mail: asterisk-h...@uc.org
Re: [on-asterisk] Asterisk 1 Gigabit Internet.
Reza - Asterisk Consultant wrote: Or is it just the greed and self imposed limitation set by the incumbent internet carriers that are unnecessarily preventing us from greater potential speed? There are physical limitations with the methods used to deliver the service to us. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: asterisk-unsubscr...@uc.org For additional commands, e-mail: asterisk-h...@uc.org
Re: [on-asterisk] Asterisk 1 Gigabit Internet.
Reza, I found a few providers that offers what you are looking for (not at 1Gbps), but you may not be in their serving area: Videotron (province of Quebec only) 120Mbps download, 20Mbps upload: http://www.videotron.com/service/internet-services/internet-access/ultimate-120 Bell FIBE 25: 25Mbps download and 7Mbps upload. http://www.bell.ca/shopping/jsp/pageblock_styles/includes/quickview.jsp?quickView=truewlcs_catalog_item_sku=DSLTIMONNewMassNCOMX25lang=enregion=ON But both providers offer cap on internet transit. I feel the caps are too low using such high speed connections. I don't see anything from Rogers that offers similar upload speeds. It may not help you, but it shows that we (as Canadians) will have something similar available in the near future. Stephan Monette Unlimitel Inc. Tel.: 1-877-464-6638 Fax: (613) 482-1077 On 2010-12-20, at 5:35 AM, Reza - Asterisk Consultant wrote: Ok... I'm VERY disappointed in Canada as a country that claims to have one of the highest rate of internet users on the globe per population. The average cost of Cable/DSL for somewhat of the so called High Speed (10mbps down and 1mpbs up) is in the range of ~$60 CDN per month. Just got news from two friends: 1. Friend in Kyoto is having a full blast of amazing 1gbps ** synchronous** internet for less than $150 CDN. 2. Friend in developing nation Moldova former USSR, is paying $15 USD for his 20 Mpbs down and 10 Mbps up. Basic testing with Video via H264 in Asterisk is demonstrating flawless crisp video calls. With speeds such as above in Kyoto and Moldova every household could be an ITSP. To be quite frank, I wouldn't mind paying $250 / month for the capability of 20 Mbps upstream. Can anyone shed some light as to whether we in Canada (in Toronto to be more specific) could reach this speed at this moment at the technical level with the current cable dsl infrastructure? Or is it just the greed and self imposed limitation set by the incumbent internet carriers that are unnecessarily preventing us from greater potential speed? Would appreciate some insight. Best regards, Reza. -- Toronto based VoIP / Asterisk Trainer, I.T. Consultant and Hosted PBX Solutions Provider. +1-647-476-2067. http://www.linkedin.com/in/seminar - To unsubscribe, e-mail: asterisk-unsubscr...@uc.org For additional commands, e-mail: asterisk-h...@uc.org
RE: [on-asterisk] Asterisk 1 Gigabit Internet.
I think Reza was referring to the fact that the price per megabit of internet access in Canada is among the worst in the developed world. The reasons for this are mostly what James described earlier. The Berkman Center at Harvard has done extensive research on this. http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/ Bill -Original Message- From: Stephan Monette [mailto:monet...@unlimitel.ca] Sent: Monday, December 20, 2010 9:45 AM To: Reza - Asterisk Consultant Cc: Asterisk Users Group Subject: Re: [on-asterisk] Asterisk 1 Gigabit Internet. Reza, I found a few providers that offers what you are looking for (not at 1Gbps), but you may not be in their serving area: Videotron (province of Quebec only) 120Mbps download, 20Mbps upload: http://www.videotron.com/service/internet-services/internet- access/ultimate-120 Bell FIBE 25: 25Mbps download and 7Mbps upload. http://www.bell.ca/shopping/jsp/pageblock_styles/includes/quickview.jsp ?quickView=truewlcs_catalog_item_sku=DSLTIMONNewMassNCOMX25lang=enre gion=ON But both providers offer cap on internet transit. I feel the caps are too low using such high speed connections. I don't see anything from Rogers that offers similar upload speeds. It may not help you, but it shows that we (as Canadians) will have something similar available in the near future. Stephan Monette Unlimitel Inc. Tel.: 1-877-464-6638 Fax: (613) 482-1077 On 2010-12-20, at 5:35 AM, Reza - Asterisk Consultant wrote: Ok... I'm VERY disappointed in Canada as a country that claims to have one of the highest rate of internet users on the globe per population. The average cost of Cable/DSL for somewhat of the so called High Speed (10mbps down and 1mpbs up) is in the range of ~$60 CDN per month. Just got news from two friends: 1. Friend in Kyoto is having a full blast of amazing 1gbps ** synchronous** internet for less than $150 CDN. 2. Friend in developing nation Moldova former USSR, is paying $15 USD for his 20 Mpbs down and 10 Mbps up. Basic testing with Video via H264 in Asterisk is demonstrating flawless crisp video calls. With speeds such as above in Kyoto and Moldova every household could be an ITSP. To be quite frank, I wouldn't mind paying $250 / month for the capability of 20 Mbps upstream. Can anyone shed some light as to whether we in Canada (in Toronto to be more specific) could reach this speed at this moment at the technical level with the current cable dsl infrastructure? Or is it just the greed and self imposed limitation set by the incumbent internet carriers that are unnecessarily preventing us from greater potential speed? Would appreciate some insight. Best regards, Reza. -- Toronto based VoIP / Asterisk Trainer, I.T. Consultant and Hosted PBX Solutions Provider. +1-647-476-2067. http://www.linkedin.com/in/seminar - To unsubscribe, e-mail: asterisk-unsubscr...@uc.org For additional commands, e-mail: asterisk-h...@uc.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: asterisk-unsubscr...@uc.org For additional commands, e-mail: asterisk-h...@uc.org
Re: [on-asterisk] Asterisk 1 Gigabit Internet.
The root problem is lack of competition. We have no competition because under our foreign ownership regime, Canada does not allow any. Unfortunately the CRTC are not helping matters, their board consists of ex Bell and Cable people who are very conservative; to the point of choking off any competition before is viable. I'm not a big fan of the CRTC for a lot of reasons but on this particular issue I always feel I have to defend them. The fact is, the CRTC was taking steps to increase competition and one of the first things the Conservatives did when they came to power in 2007 was order them to stop. Here is a nice little article in an archive that explains just how ticked off the bureaucrats at the CRTC were at the Conservatives (conform or quit): http://www.pugetsoundradio.com/cgi-bin/forum/Blah.pl?v-print/m-1170784107/ And an original story from the CBC that explains what the government did and how happy the incumbents were: http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2006/06/13/crtc.html The Conservatives have also not lifted the foreign ownership restrictions in Telecom despite several bi-partisan reports that recommended they do so. As recently as this November, Tony Clement announced they would not be allowing competition (foreign owned companies) in Canadian Telecom any time soon. So on this one, it's squarely in the hands of the politicians, not the CRTC. Not to promote my own blog on this list but I've written extensively on competition, deregulation and the CRTC including a whole post on the favorite Canadian sport of bashing the CRTC for everything: http://www.johnlange.ca/2008/07/16/apparently-the-crtc-is-to-blame-for-everything/ -- John Lange www.johnlange.ca - To unsubscribe, e-mail: asterisk-unsubscr...@uc.org For additional commands, e-mail: asterisk-h...@uc.org
