Re: Electronic homeopathy for plants. Was Re: late winter farm
Hi! James and Lloyd, I am out of action at the moment with health probs. But picked up on your post concerning Copen's Agricultural methods. Did you start with the rates in his Ag Rate Book? I was going to buy it several years ago, but now they seem to have with-drawn it from all their sites. I have emailed both the US and German offices and neither replied. So I do not know if they have some issue with it. Do you have a copy of it? Do you have any of his instruments? I have a Mark 2 A. This is one of the fifteen knob ones, with all sorts of additional posibilities that I have never got to trying. All up it has twenty four knobs and four switches. I bought in a collection of intruments and intended to possibly use it with his Ag Rates, but do not have the book, nor have been able to buy it. If you need something made up that requires more knobs than you have, I can do it if required. Gil James Hedley wrote: Bruce Copen from Copen Instruments developed a fertiliser which was prepared radionically which he called Cosmo. it is a mixture of homeopathic Schussler tissue salts, radionically prepared BD preps, a substance called Agrospon which feeds bacteria and other microbes plus a couple of other remedies such as Lachesis ( a great anti viral ) and Lycopodium (to strengthen the archetype of the plant). I have been broadcasting this out during the drought as well as Copen's Nutritional spray # 5. Each of these have been broadcast for 24 hours at least once a fortnight since last spring when I realised that we were moving into severe drought..
Re: Electronic homeopathy for plants. Was Re: late winter farm
- Original Message - From: James Hedley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 11:04 AM Subject: Electronic homeopathy for plants. Was Re: late winter farm Dear Lloyd, I agree with you that a commercial farm is not really the place for doing chromas. How many BD farms or CSA's supply food with a certificate of quality backed up by chromas. Hi James The biggest problem I see with this is trying to get a valid comparison - if the overlapping influence of the normal preps is a fact (and Allan agreed that it was), then how do we compare ? If we move far enough away to eliminate that effect then we introduce other variables - different soil types - past history - it makes the excercise pointless I think. I spoke to Cheryl today and they are able to do chromas on the barrel compost samples so I will send some in for that it seems to me that the nebulous thing which Alan defines as quality is best decided by the farmer themselves first, then by their peers and also by the customer. I think I would put the customer ahead of the peers. My guess is that if a farmer of any persuasion had to supply a certificate of compliance with their produce very little of the food produced would get to market. I believe that to simply use the preps and compost as defined by RS will only lead to depletion of soil mineralisation. Thats not a popular statement to make in BD circles but I believe its right on the mark! We cant expect to 'bring in' from the cosmos, all the necessary minerals for a cropping program with decent yields either, at least not in the early stages of our development. If we started with soils with a high mineral content (such as yours) and pursued a program with a low nett export of minerals from the farm then maybe. This does not mean we have to use salt fertiliser but something has to come in to balance output. I had a very good afternoon with Tobias at Yanco today and we discussed a few of these things, he has done a really good job with the organic plots there, he's at a stage where weed control is not a major problem,and his production levels are quite good, he has picked 18 ton /ha of zuchinis off one block so far and they are still cropping like mad, pumpkins look good as do the soybeans, but he is still struggling with fairly low brix readings and it seems difficult to shift that, there is something still not quite right but they gave him the worst bit of soil on the whole farm to work with. There is more to cropping than that. In ancient soils as we have in large areas of Australia minerals are very low to start with, so any chance you have to add to mineralisation or to increase microbial growth will give a great return. Bruce Copen from Copen Instruments developed a fertiliser which was prepared radionically which he called Cosmo. it is a mixture of homeopathic Schussler tissue salts, radionically prepared BD preps, a substance called Agrospon which feeds bacteria and other microbes plus a couple of other remedies such as Lachesis ( a great anti viral ) and Lycopodium (to strengthen the archetype of the plant). I have been broadcasting this out during the drought as well as Copen's Nutritional spray # 5. Each of these have been broadcast for 24 hours at least once a fortnight since last spring when I realised that we were moving into severe drought.. People who come to our place all comment on the speed which the pasture and bushland has recovered, compared to surrounding farms. If you would like a phial of each to try in your broadcasters I would be pleased to send them to you. Yes please! I sure would like to try these - I have a couple of interesting things that you might like to try in return. The use of electronic homeopathy for plants has a great future in overcoming mineral deficiency problems in plants and this combination of mixtures seems to be a valuable tool to have in your arsenal. have had eleven and a half inches of rain wow! its a crazy country we live in - we had very close to five and could stand another inch right now. We have 700 acres cultivated and its a bit too dry on top to continue will probably do another 500 on the next rain if the season goes with us as our sheep numbers are very low - only have 300 lambs left and will be totally destocked when they are sold in the winter. Not sowing oats as we have adequate feed for the few sheep we have. Plan is to try to get a reasonable area of pasture sown down this year (lucerne) so we can back off the cropping and get a little better balance with livestock in the future. I want to try and let this farm grow some spare grass this year as we just dont have enough soil cover. Probably start sowing in mid april if we get a little rain then. Tobias and I thinking about going to Young at the end of this month to hear Gary Zimmer and Jerry Brunetti (more yanks) I've been brewing some ingham style compost tea, with a few variations and it seems to be working OK -
Fwd: Organic food has more healthy compounds
Folks - I'd appreciate it if you'd pass any information like this to BD Now! or to me personally. As you are probably aware, there is not a strong body of information supporting the health promoting superiority of organically grown food. We all know it in our hearts and through our personal experiences. It's nice to have other information to point at for the skeptical (or to back up the undocumented claims on my webpage! ;-) Thanks _Allan Status: RO X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 23:19:23 -0500 To: Northeast Food System Partnership [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: George Mokray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Organic food has more healthy compounds Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=10.0 tests=none version=2.43 X-Spam-Level: from http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/20112/story.htm Organic food has more healthy compounds - US report USA: March 11, 2003 WASHINGTON - Organically grown crops contain more healthy compounds than conventional crops, perhaps because they are not exposed to pesticides, U.S. researchers reported. Tests on organically and sustainably grown berries and corn showed they contain up to 58 percent more polyphenolics, compounds that act as antioxidants and may protect cells against damage that can lead to heart disease and cancer. Organic food is grown without chemical pesticides or fertilizers. Sustainably grown food is grown without artificial pesticides. This really opens the door to more research in this area, said Alyson Mitchell, an assistant professor of food science at the University of California, Davis, who led the study. Her team compared levels of total polyphenolics and ascorbic acid content in blackberries, strawberries and corn grown organically, sustainably or conventionally. The team found that blackberries grown sustainably or organically and then frozen contained 50 percent to 58 percent more polyphenolics than conventionally grown crops from neighboring plots. Sustainably grown frozen strawberries contained 19 percent more polyphenolics than conventional fruit. Sustainably grown and organic produce also had more ascorbic acid, which the body converts to vitamin C, Mitchell's team reported in the Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry. The polyphenolics in the organic crops were at levels seen in wild plants, Mitchell said, suggesting that plants treated with pesticides need to make less of the chemicals. Plants make vitamins, polyphenolics and other antioxidants to protect themselves from dangers such as pests and drought. Many studies show that eating plenty of fruits and vegetables can reduce the risk of heart disease, cancer and other disease. Polyphenolics are believed to be one reason. We know they're beneficial, but we don't know what types of polyphenolics are beneficial, or in what quantities, Mitchell said. REUTERS NEWS SERVICE
Re: On topic: physical and etheric bodies of plants15
In a message dated 3/10/2003 12:07:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "Organs. Little bits of the outside captured inside the physical body. Like when the developing embryo forms an invagitation, then rolls in a bit of the outside skin. That first capture becomes the neural tube, the beginnings of the nervous system. From that grows all the sensory organs and brain -- that which has the ability to reflect the outer world because it starts by capturing a bit of it. The organs develop as astral centers, internalizing some of the outside -- while for plants, all that astral stuff stays outside. Then because the animal has it's own astral centers, it can be mobile." Dude! that is a beautiful image. Thank you. jeff
Re: Electronic homeopathy for plants. Was Re: late winter farm
Chromas as intellectual curiosity? Well, let me just add these comments from a general perspective. Chromas are a practical approach to the humus farmers in Austria and Switzerland, who work their soils with humified compost, cover crops, spading machines, rotations, and related humus management practices to achieve biological health, clay-humus crumb, and associated mineral availability. There, the chromas are used with a series of other humus measurements to provide a fundamental understanding of the condition of the soil. The typical NPK soil test, even the Albrecht soil test, is largely irrelevant from this humus perspective. Likewise, are chromas used to view food quality. Certainly the chroma reveals a qualitative nature that cannot be seen by taking the food apart and analyzing its individual components. Yet nobody is suggesting that chromas be used as some sort of certificate of proof. I just did a workshop on food quality and the chromas were one of the things that helped people get it in terms of food quality, holism, and image forming qualitative perspective. James, that was very interesting to read about the Bruce Copen bio-mineral soil amendment mix, sent out by broadcasting. It is a little glimpse into some very intersting and worth following up and learning a lot more. Steve Diver James Hedley wrote: Dear Lloyd, I agree with you that a commercial farm is not really the place for doing chromas. How many BD farms or CSA's supply food with a certificate of quality backed up by chromas. To me they are only of intellectual interest to check how your farm is going overall. but really how do you define quality without a standard to measure it by. it seems to me that the nebulous thing which Alan defines as quality is best decided by the farmer themselves first, then by their peers and also by the customer. My guess is that if a farmer of any persuasion had to supply a certificate of compliance with their produce very little of the food produced would get to market. I believe that to simply use the preps and compost as defined by RS will only lead to depletion of soil mineralisation. There is more to cropping than that. In ancient soils as we have in large areas of Australia minerals are very low to start with, so any chance you have to add to mineralisation or to increase microbial growth will give a great return. Bruce Copen from Copen Instruments developed a fertiliser which was prepared radionically which he called Cosmo. it is a mixture of homeopathic Schussler tissue salts, radionically prepared BD preps, a substance called Agrospon which feeds bacteria and other microbes plus a couple of other remedies such as Lachesis ( a great anti viral ) and Lycopodium (to strengthen the archetype of the plant). I have been broadcasting this out during the drought as well as Copen's Nutritional spray # 5. Each of these have been broadcast for 24 hours at least once a fortnight since last spring when I realised that we were moving into severe drought.. People who come to our place all comment on the speed which the pasture and bushland has recovered, compared to surrounding farms. If you would like a phial of each to try in your broadcasters I would be pleased to send them to you. The use of electronic homeopathy for plants has a great future in overcoming mineral deficiency problems in plants and this combination of mixtures seems to be a valuable tool to have in your arsenal. have had eleven and a half inches of rain since the Albury workshop so we are well and truly out of the drought for the moment although much more rain is needed to replenish sub soil moisture. will be planting forage oats next week. It is amazing what a few weeks can make on a farm. Conditions can change so fast. Have you started planting yet? Kind regards James - Original Message - From: Lloyd Charles [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 12:05 PM Subject: Re: late winter farm I dont expect the traditionalists on the list to go into raptures over this but I believe that we need to know if these things can work. It could be useful to use some radionically prepared prep water in any making of BD preps - Lloyd - What I'd like to see is chromas comparing crops (carrots, for example) grown in radionically prepped soils and in conventional BD prepped soils. We can have good physical appearances but still not have everything that we are looking for in BD food. Are you up for doing something like this? Allan The way I understand this type of comparison trial its difficult to do because of the crossover effect of physical preps? 500 will spread its influence over the general area treated? We 'd assume that the other preps do likewise. I know Hamish says its not necessary to cover every square yard when you spray the preps - so to move away from this influence for a comparison we
organic food
Anyone that believes that organic food is not healthier than conventional food is inherently stupid and a victim of multi-national disinformationbut as you said Allan this is a personal expression with no hard evidence behind it. So people pool your resources of information and lets give them a reason for their small minds to believe. Peace Eric
Re: Chromas and humus Was Electronic homeopathy for plants.
- Original Message - From: Steve Diver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 2:36 AM Subject: Re: Electronic homeopathy for plants. Was Re: late winter farm Chromas as intellectual curiosity? Chromas are a practical approach to the humus farmers in Austria and Switzerland, who work their soils with humified compost, cover crops, spading machines, rotations, and related humus management practices to achieve biological health, clay-humus crumb, and associated mineral availability. Hi Steve I dont think you'd get much argument about the value of chromas as you have described above Lets come back around the circle and look at this again 1 I made some barrel compost using radionically made preps instead of the physical ones - heck I had enough cow manure for two pits and only one set of preps - and I was curious as to what would happen. 2. The stuffs done and visually there is no difference and there was none as it went through the process 3 We tested these two lots energetically with a radionic machine and by dowsing and for practical purposes there was not much difference (the radionic one a little ahead but not that different) 4 Allan suggested a chroma test of produce grown ( vegetables grain or whatever) using radionic and conventional preps as a comparison. I dont have a problem with chromas for this. 5 I questioned how you would do this because any conventional preps used will spread their influence betyond the application area and probably effect the plots using radionic preps (Glen Atkinson tells us that potentised preps will 'stay put' only effecting where they are applied) If we are going to do comparison tests and then draw some qualitative conclusion from them they must be valid comparisons. My thinking from here on in is that a farm to farm comparison is a real good way of comparing the two farms but a completely invalid way of comparing any one treatment used on the both farms because of the other variables we have introduced - and none of us have the time, money, or energy to spare to do enough of these tests to make it valid. If we cant draw some useful conclusions from the simpler tests we are able to do then maybe its better if we dont draw any conclusions at all. Which brings me back around to the start of your message. If these Swiss and Austrian farmers are using chromas effectively to look at the humus quality of their soil then that should be an ideal way of comparing two batches of barrel compost ? - (I favour energetic testing myself but that has already tested out very similar). I spoke to Cheryl Kemp about this yesterday and will send some samples, I'm sure she would be happy to post the chroma pictures to the Biodynamic Agriculture Australia web site for all to see when the tests are done. Cheers Lloyd Charles
Re: Electronic homeopathy for plants. Was Re: late winter farm
From: Steve Diver The typical NPK soil test, even the Albrecht soil test, is largely irrelevant from this humus perspective. Hi Steve I would like to pursue this a bit. Maybe I think a bit different to most but I reckon the main benefit of a proper soil test (a good Albrecht type analysis) is the detailed trace element analysis - of course you have to pay the rate to get it and many people are not prepared to go whole hog on a soil test. The majors are simple and cheap - you can get Calcium , magnesium, potassium and sodium off any old twenty dollar soil test and run an 'Albrecht balance' off those numbers and most times you will come out with a workable result - there is a bit of math involved and some conversion figures sometimes - it helps to know the cheap test numbers in comparison to a perry or brookside but you can do this . OTOH A decent trace element analysis is not something you can get cheap. For trace element numbers you need to go to a good lab and pay the price and also do any retests with that same lab. Trace element nutrition is something that many organic farmers neglect almost as badly as their chemical cousins and I really dont see how you can get this right (or know that it is right) without some proper soil testing. Of course I dont know those Swiss soils - maybe they are so loaded with minerals and energy that the farmers dont need to look for anything extra - Quartz crystal that I have seen from there is the best energetically. Tell us what they are doing that makes testing irrelevant Cheers Lloyd Charles
Re: organic food
- Original Message - From: Eric Myren [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 3:31 AM Subject: organic food Anyone that believes that organic food is not healthier than conventional food is inherently stupid and a victim of multi-national disinformation Eric - they are only as dumb as those that think that ALL organic food is better than ALL non organic food - we need to make the distinction between food grown to minimum organic certification standards and properly grown organic food with trace mineral integrity and high energy. BIG difference!! Lloyd Charles
Re: Guineafowl (was Update on cannibals ... )
In Oz we catch all the rain water off our roofs we can. Peafowl roosting on the ridge may look great, but not good for the drinking water. Have you seen the damage they can do the paintwork on a new car if they catch sight of themselves? Gil Tony Nelson-Smith wrote: As for noise, try a peacock above your bedroom window at four in the morning! One day, we had a visit from the recently arrived local policeman, looking very serious. A passing tourist had, he said, heard a girl crying for help from our house in the early morning. It took an age to convince him that it was only a peacock. _ Overloaded with spam? With MSN 8, you can filter it out http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmailpgmarket=en-gbXAPID=32DI=1059
Re: Chromas and humus Was Electronic homeopathy for plants.
Lloyd - You explained the situation in so much greater detail, and based on what you've explained, I'm in agreement that the chroma comparison may not be that helpful. The comment that chromas are an intellectual curiosity was apparently in reference to this specific comparison. Well, BD is a premier humus management system so I thought I'd add a few words on chromas, as chromas are a central tool in humus management evalutation. In the spirit of chromas, we can do more in BD education to explain them and use them. Barrel compost, or CPP, is something that BD has to offer organic farmers and sustainable agriculture on a much wider scale, by the way. There are different ways to tweak the recipe and make special cultures. In India, CPP is getting wider and wider attention among farmers far and wide. Have you seen the Wiki over at Larry London's web page. It occurs to me that BD education could be matched to a BiodynamicsWiki; i.e., it would allow the uploading of images, scanned soil test reports, articles, and such, in a web-based open source collection. See: PermacultureWiki http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/pcwiki/index.php See: CompostWiki || Sub-category at PermacultureWiki http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/pcwiki/index.php/Composting Here's a compost tea brewer jpg I uploaded one day, as a Wiki test. http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/pcwiki/pcwikiufu/compost-tea-ca1.jpg Well, sometimes I see a topic and add on resources to expand the story. So let's see where this story goes next, when somebody else adds a chapter. Peace, Steve Diver Lloyd Charles wrote: - Original Message - From: Steve Diver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 2:36 AM Subject: Re: Electronic homeopathy for plants. Was Re: late winter farm Chromas as intellectual curiosity? Chromas are a practical approach to the humus farmers in Austria and Switzerland, who work their soils with humified compost, cover crops, spading machines, rotations, and related humus management practices to achieve biological health, clay-humus crumb, and associated mineral availability. Hi Steve I dont think you'd get much argument about the value of chromas as you have described above Lets come back around the circle and look at this again 1 I made some barrel compost using radionically made preps instead of the physical ones - heck I had enough cow manure for two pits and only one set of preps - and I was curious as to what would happen. 2. The stuffs done and visually there is no difference and there was none as it went through the process 3 We tested these two lots energetically with a radionic machine and by dowsing and for practical purposes there was not much difference (the radionic one a little ahead but not that different) 4 Allan suggested a chroma test of produce grown ( vegetables grain or whatever) using radionic and conventional preps as a comparison. I dont have a problem with chromas for this. 5 I questioned how you would do this because any conventional preps used will spread their influence betyond the application area and probably effect the plots using radionic preps (Glen Atkinson tells us that potentised preps will 'stay put' only effecting where they are applied) If we are going to do comparison tests and then draw some qualitative conclusion from them they must be valid comparisons. My thinking from here on in is that a farm to farm comparison is a real good way of comparing the two farms but a completely invalid way of comparing any one treatment used on the both farms because of the other variables we have introduced - and none of us have the time, money, or energy to spare to do enough of these tests to make it valid. If we cant draw some useful conclusions from the simpler tests we are able to do then maybe its better if we dont draw any conclusions at all. Which brings me back around to the start of your message. If these Swiss and Austrian farmers are using chromas effectively to look at the humus quality of their soil then that should be an ideal way of comparing two batches of barrel compost ? - (I favour energetic testing myself but that has already tested out very similar). I spoke to Cheryl Kemp about this yesterday and will send some samples, I'm sure she would be happy to post the chroma pictures to the Biodynamic Agriculture Australia web site for all to see when the tests are done. Cheers Lloyd Charles
Re: organic food
Eric - they are only as dumb as those that think that ALL organic food is better than ALL non organic food - we need to make the distinction between food grown to minimum organic certification standards and properly grown organic food with trace mineral integrity and high energy. BIG difference!! Lloyd Charles Thanks, Lloyd. Until we can establish that the food we produce biodynamically is substantially superior nutritionally to conventional agriculture products, we will be tied the artificially low prices of supermarket foods. We will also be sharing the same market with them. We all know we do have a different product. I, for one, do not believe that we have proven this to the satisfaction of enough people to make the difference in the minds of the buying public that we need to make so that farming small holdings biodynamically is economically viable. We simply are not selling the same thing that agribusiness is growing. Without 'studies' documenting, though, the man on the street feels like a 'sucker' if they pay more for our produce, or even go out of their way to do so. I know. I see it all the time. -Allan
Re: Chromas and humus Was Electronic homeopathy for plants.
Barrel compost, or CPP, is something that BD has to offer organic farmers and sustainable agriculture on a much wider scale, by the way. There are different ways to tweak the recipe and make special cultures. In India, CPP is getting wider and wider attention among farmers far and wide. I don't think that anyone who uses it doubts the effectiveness of Maria Thun's barrel compost. Maria Thun mentions in her book that she worked for a very long time to arrive at a recipe that works as dynamically as the one she recommends and that JPI and Hugh Lovel work with. She is especially impressed with the mineral dynamics that dried and crushed egg shells bring to the barrel compost recipe. Another job for chromas, no doubt. My point here is that 'more' may not mean 'more' when one is playing with a recipe developed over the years by one of our leading biodynamic researchers. Of course, it's your shit and your hour of potentizing it and your compost prep kits and your 7 weeks to 6months of waiting for the 'brew' to mature. Do what thou wilt. -Allan
Re: Electronic homeopathy for plants. Was Re: late winter farm
Lloyd - As usual you understand the finer points of soil management and soil testing. I'm in agreement as to the value of the Albrecht soil test, with extra attention to trace element analysis and the balance or ratios between them. Yet, you ask what makes the mineral balancing soil test irrelevant, or let us say not absolutely necessary, from the humus perspective. My paper on Luebke compost has all the details on humus testing methods used by the European farmers. But you have to click on Google cache to get it. Essentially, with Luebke compost you also have rock dusts amended to the compost windrow. This is clay-amended compost. Thus, you have clay-humus crumb structure with exponential nutrient exchange sites and biological life sites. You have solubilization and mineralization. You have organo-mineral complexes and biotic-mineral complexes. You have enzymes operating at greatly enhanced capacity with the trace elements from rock dusts. When you have a chroma test with pH potential test, Humus value test, and OM test, you have enough information to evaluate a soil. It tells you how much biological activity is underway, how much mineralization is underway, how much humification is underway, etc. Mineral testing, whether typical NPK-lime or a full-blown Albrecht analysis, is just one of several ways to view soils and develop soil management and fertility recommendations. My resource list below attempted to open the doors of understanding for alternative or ecological or holistic approaches to soil testing, with people, lab methods, recommendation philosophies, and resources. Alternative Soil Testing Laboratories http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/soil-lab.html Ideally, one might have the benefit of a good mineral balancing soil test as well as the humus management series of tests, to get a complete picture. The soil foodweb analysis from SFI is another angle. The microbial functional groups analysis from BBC Labs is another angle. These fall into the microbial-humus category on my resource list. So if you complement a mineral test with a microbial-humus test you gain a broader view of the situation and that should help all the way around. Best regards, Steve Diver Lloyd Charles wrote: From: Steve Diver The typical NPK soil test, even the Albrecht soil test, is largely irrelevant from this humus perspective. Hi Steve I would like to pursue this a bit. Maybe I think a bit different to most but I reckon the main benefit of a proper soil test (a good Albrecht type analysis) is the detailed trace element analysis - of course you have to pay the rate to get it and many people are not prepared to go whole hog on a soil test. The majors are simple and cheap - you can get Calcium , magnesium, potassium and sodium off any old twenty dollar soil test and run an 'Albrecht balance' off those numbers and most times you will come out with a workable result - there is a bit of math involved and some conversion figures sometimes - it helps to know the cheap test numbers in comparison to a perry or brookside but you can do this . OTOH A decent trace element analysis is not something you can get cheap. For trace element numbers you need to go to a good lab and pay the price and also do any retests with that same lab. Trace element nutrition is something that many organic farmers neglect almost as badly as their chemical cousins and I really dont see how you can get this right (or know that it is right) without some proper soil testing. Of course I dont know those Swiss soils - maybe they are so loaded with minerals and energy that the farmers dont need to look for anything extra - Quartz crystal that I have seen from there is the best energetically. Tell us what they are doing that makes testing irrelevant Cheers Lloyd Charles
Re: organic food
It seems to me there are plenty of papers summarizing concepts and research results in the BD literature. BD has even developed a series of qualitative bioassay methods to understand the quality of soils, composts, and foods. It seems to me people either value BD foods as it stands right now, or they don't. More data is not going to make a lot of difference. Connecting farms to local consumers will make an economic difference. Institutional food buying is a prominent new market, from the foodshed perspective. Appeal to young women about their beauty and their physical appearance. We are growing fatter as a population. Connect BD food with radiant health. Link BD food with yoga and excerise. Appeal to young men about their sexual reproductive capacity. Sperm counts are dropping. Young men today are half the man their grand-daddy was. Appeal to young mothers about pesticide-free vegetables and fruits for their young children. Studies now prove that pesticide residues bring significant risk to the health of infants and children to age 12. Appeal to cancer patients, for the healing quality of BD foods. Appeal to holistic health practitioners, to emphasize BD foods to their patients. But don't look for more studies as the magic elixir that will make a difference; go get all the studies and concepts that already exist and you will have a powerful statement, as is. Steve Diver
Re: Electronic homeopathy for plants. Was Re: late winter farm
Lloyd - The Albrecht soil tests of what I found to be rather savorabley imbalanced soil I distributed last week were done on soils that have been heavily amended by Luebke-formula compost made under the guidance of Mr George Leiding of Imants. George, I believe, was a domestic in the Luebke household for many years. The clay basis of the compost is readily observable, especially when the compost is wet. I am currently investigating the inputs to this compost to see if the explanation for the imbalance can be found there. Which reminds me: does anyone know a mail order no-consultant-attached source of Luebke compost starter in the US? thanks _Allan
Re: organic food
But don't look for more studies as the magic elixir that will make a difference; go get all the studies and concepts that already exist and you will have a powerful statement, as is. Steve - Without the studies, everything you mention can be brushed off as advertising. My request doesn't come out of thin air, it is the request of someone who is actively marketing locally and has been doing it for some time. It is also the request of a person who is standing separate from federal organic certification who feels that he should have at least a few studies to show the superiority of food that's grown WITH nature rather than wrested out of Nature. I don't want to make 'promises' to people, I want to show them that what I 'believe' can actually be demonstrated, either through trials or through lab work. Where are these studies that you speak of? I hope you have a list of them because I have yet to find any that show a substantial enough difference between BD food and conventional food for me to be anything but embarassed because I talk about our food being superior. I also work with pastured livestock. I have to tell you that the documentation posted at EatWild.com does an incredible job of clinching sales. People can related to concepts like CLAs readily. Pretty soon, they know exacty what is missing in chainstore foods. That's what I want: something I can point at that substantially differentiates 'our food' from 'theirs.' Here I'm talking about talking to people who cannot see, touch, smell or taste our wonderful, delicate produce. -Allan
Re: Electronic homeopathy for plants. Was Re: late winter farm
My paper on Luebke compost has all the details on humus testing methods used by the European farmers. But you have to click on Google cache to get it. Sorry, Steve - Can you give better directions on how to locate this? Thanks _Allan
Re: organic food
Hi guys! At the risk of being off-topic, this article just came my way about a UC Davis study. Organic veggies produced more antioxidents, and absorbic acid. Now those are things mainstream people are hearing about and know they need more of. I know its not BD but it seems to be what you mention, Allan. Christy Organic food has more healthy compounds - US report WASHINGTON - Organically grown crops contain more healthy compounds than conventional crops, perhaps because they are not exposed to pesticides, U.S. researchers reported. Tests on organically and sustainably grown berries and corn showed they contain up to 58 percent more polyphenolics, compounds that act as antioxidants and may protect cells against damage that can lead to heart disease and cancer. Organic food is grown without chemical pesticides or fertilizers. Sustainably grown food is grown without artificial pesticides. This really opens the door to more research in this area, said Alyson Mitchell, an assistant professor of food science at the University of California, Davis, who led the study. Her team compared levels of total polyphenolics and ascorbic acid content in blackberries, strawberries and corn grown organically, sustainably or conventionally. The team found that blackberries grown sustainably or organically and then frozen contained 50 percent to 58 percent more polyphenolics than conventionally grown crops from neighboring plots. Sustainably grown frozen strawberries contained 19 percent more polyphenolics than conventional fruit. Sustainably grown and organic produce also had more ascorbic acid, which the body converts to vitamin C, Mitchell's team reported in the Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry. The polyphenolics in the organic crops were at levels seen in wild plants, Mitchell said, suggesting that plants treated with pesticides need to make less of the chemicals. Plants make vitamins, polyphenolics and other antioxidants to protect themselves from dangers such as pests and drought. Many studies show that eating plenty of fruits and vegetables can reduce the risk of heart disease, cancer and other disease. Polyphenolics are believed to be one reason. We know they're beneficial, but we don't know what types of polyphenolics are beneficial, or in what quantities, Mitchell said. Story Date: 11/3/2003 Back to Top Back to Headlines See yesterday's headlines 29ad0d.jpg All Contents © Reuters News Service 2002
Re: organic food
As a very quick reply meaning, no documentation just how to do it. Get Benbrooks paper from EcoFarm. It has all the data on pesticide residues and children. It is an essential document. Get Virginia Worthington's paper. See the summary on mineral depletion in foods. Make a connect between these minerals and the five major disease killers, and notice that some of these same lacking minerals are important biochemical regulators. See the new information on phytochemicals, nutraceuticals, and functional foods. Gain understanding of holism in whole foods vs food broken apart by processing or by making active ingredient extracts for pharmaceutical sales. The UC-Davis paper was about polyphenolics; i.e., phytochemicals. A lot is emerging on this. Again, holism is the key. See Alan Kapuler's researh on amino acids and genetics. See all the other research from Soil Association, Et al gather a bunch of different pieces together. Now get into BD qualitative assessment methods: circular chromatography, sensitive crystallization or better known these days as biocrystallization, and capillary dynamolysis. Now get into water quality assessment methods and tie together water as a carrier of information and energetic quality to the vital quality of foods. Talk about organic foods and what they offer: *pesticide free *sewage-sludge free *GMO free *toxic-laden commercial fertilizer free *etc Now you got it. It is all woven together. Now you got a Powerful picture. Steve Diver Allan Balliett wrote: But don't look for more studies as the magic elixir that will make a difference; go get all the studies and concepts that already exist and you will have a powerful statement, as is. Steve - Without the studies, everything you mention can be brushed off as advertising. My request doesn't come out of thin air, it is the request of someone who is actively marketing locally and has been doing it for some time. It is also the request of a person who is standing separate from federal organic certification who feels that he should have at least a few studies to show the superiority of food that's grown WITH nature rather than wrested out of Nature. I don't want to make 'promises' to people, I want to show them that what I 'believe' can actually be demonstrated, either through trials or through lab work. Where are these studies that you speak of? I hope you have a list of them because I have yet to find any that show a substantial enough difference between BD food and conventional food for me to be anything but embarassed because I talk about our food being superior. I also work with pastured livestock. I have to tell you that the documentation posted at EatWild.com does an incredible job of clinching sales. People can related to concepts like CLAs readily. Pretty soon, they know exacty what is missing in chainstore foods. That's what I want: something I can point at that substantially differentiates 'our food' from 'theirs.' Here I'm talking about talking to people who cannot see, touch, smell or taste our wonderful, delicate produce. -Allan
Re: Electronic homeopathy for plants. Was Re: late winter farm
My paper on Luebke compost has all the details on humus testing methods used by the European farmers. But you have to click on Google cache to get it. Sorry, Steve - Can you give better directions on how to locate this? Thanks _Allan Me too please Lloyd Charles
Re: organic food
I know its not BD but it seems to be what you mention, Allan. Christy Thanks for your efforts, Christy, however redundant.'-} I'm not just looking for BD documentation. Studies like this, in which unexpected benefits are demonstrated, are exactly what I'm looking for. There are so many ways that plants can be better for humans when they are raised in environments that allow them to 'revert to Nature.' (Still reading that Podolinsky!) Keep 'em coming! -Allan
Re: Electronic homeopathy for plants. Was Re: late winter farm
Looks like Google quit indexing my home page, since it is no longer publically-accessible. Apparently it made an impact or two, when it did exist. Rhizosphere II - Incredible Web page by Steve Diver - worth while visiting if you are interested in organic farming http://www.avocadosource.com/links/soils_and_soil_biology.htm Steve Allan Balliett wrote: My paper on Luebke compost has all the details on humus testing methods used by the European farmers. But you have to click on Google cache to get it. Sorry, Steve - Can you give better directions on how to locate this? Thanks _Allan
Re: organic food
Now you got a Powerful picture. Now you're talking! Anything new from Worthington? Sorry, but I found her studies from a few years back to be rather insignificant. She once advised me to do animal studies if I wanted to prove the superiority of organic food. And then she recommended that the animals be insects. Surely, insects will grow larger faster on organic food, will they not? (She asked.) What about Al Kapuler? Has the new Journal come out? To be frank, even Sally Fallon questions the validity of his amino acid studies, so, they are hard to pass on. Point well taken, however? Thanks for these pointers, Steve! A great ATTRA project, to pull all this together, no? Should I send in a request?? Thanks -Allan
Re: Electronic homeopathy for plants. Was Re: late winter farm
Looks like Google quit indexing my home page, since it is no longer publically-accessible. Apparently it made an impact or two, when it did exist. Rhizosphere II - Incredible Web page by Steve Diver - worth while visiting if you are interested in organic farming http://www.avocadosource.com/links/soils_and_soil_biology.htm Steve Password, please! Thanks
Re: organic food
Nobody mentioned taste yet! Allan - if you had some samples of supermarket produce alongside yours, and the taste was chalk and cheese (in favour of yours of course) how many of your customers would then complain about the price? Just a thought Lloyd Charles
Re: organic food
Nobody mentioned taste yet! Allan - if you had some samples of supermarket produce alongside yours, and the taste was chalk and cheese (in favour of yours of course) how many of your customers would then complain about the price? Right you are, of course, but, actually, Lloyd, the tongue that is accustomed to over sweetened processed foods cannot necessarily appreciate the value of real food. My challenge is to communicate with customers that I have yet to meet and who have yet to meet fresh, authentic produce. Thanks again -Allan
Re: organic food
If one looks at the health factor of herds of dairy cows even in N.Z. it is remarkable the difference in vet costs and how quickly that change can take place, one can be in no doubt that consuming organic foods are conciderably more beneficial to the health of the consumer. With dairy cows one is dealing with a shorter life span than for humans. Cows can not hop on their bikes and go down town for their favourite fast food meal!! like humans can so that makes a study much easier to monitor. They haven't got access to the supermarket and all the tempting bargains either. I don't know of anyone who has done such a study at university level, do you? Perhaps someone can persuade a student to look at this question for a Master Of Science degree. My partner Gill is looking at the nutritional aspects of organic v/s conventional with lettuces as the study plant and reports amoung other things that protein is significantly ellevated where the biodynamic remedies have been used. She should be finnished her degree at the end of June. We are having autumn in N.Z. and in our part good heavy autumn rain has arrived right on shedule for golden queen peach harvest. Like many soft and stone fruit that get good rain just before harvest time splitting and rotting procede apace. This year I got busy with one of the sprays we make in the lab. (Glen Atkinson's sprays are now being marketed as B.D.Max by a new sales company of that name). Root max in the afternoon and Ripemax in the morning. The splitting slowed right down then stopped.I picked most of the fruit for bottleing. The first run had a brix of seven, the last two 16 and fifteen. No sugar or honey was used and all the fruit looked green before peeling and many after peeling too. A few leaves of stevia were added to each brew. When chopped up less than a level teaspoon. Without the use of these homoeopathic remedies I would have expected to loose more than half the fruit to brown rot. Only a few missed the bottle altogether and I had to cut bits off a few. Regards, Peter. - Original Message - From: Eric Myren [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 5:31 AM Subject: organic food Anyone that believes that organic food is not healthier than conventional food is inherently stupid and a victim of multi-national disinformationbut as you said Allan this is a personal expression with no hard evidence behind it. So people pool your resources of information and lets give them a reason for their small minds to believe. Peace Eric
