Re: Are you a model citizen?
Gary Nunn wrote: Gheeezzz Compared to the rest of y'all, I feel like The List Criminal. I had potentially 17 years in prison :-) Gary And I thought I was an innocent! You guys must be real goody two shoes. Years in prison: 17.5 Potential fine: £7000 Regards, Ray. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Are you a model citizen?
On Thursday, June 5, 2003, at 03:13 am, Gary Nunn wrote: Find out just how much of a model citizen you are A word of caution... remember that this is a British website and them British tend to do things a bit different :-) http://www.thesite.org/magazine/dodgy.html I had potentially 17 years in prison :-) Years in prison: 5 Potential fine: £0 -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ One of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that, lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination of their C programs. -- Robert Firth ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Are you a model citizen?
On 4 Jun 2003 at 22:13, Gary Nunn wrote: Find out just how much of a model citizen you are A word of caution... remember that this is a British website and them British tend to do things a bit different :-) http://www.thesite.org/magazine/dodgy.html I had potentially 17 years in prison :-) Yeah, the stamp upside-down thing is priceless. As a note, I've has the police called on me for breaking into my own house once. oh, and 26 years potential. Mostly for stuff I did when I was 12-13, mind you... Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Are you a model citizen?
Gary wrote: Years in prison: 97 Potential fine: £7000 Adam C. Lipscomb Woo - hoo ! A fellow List Criminal ! Please call me Dr. Magma. It's my new supervillain ID. = Adam C. Lipscomb [EMAIL PROTECTED] Read the blog. Love the blog. http://aclipscomb.blogspot.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
global attitudes project
A very interesting report on attitudes in many countries towards the US, globalisation, democracy, justice, etc. There is plenty of food for thought here for all, regardless of personal political beliefs. Doesn't matter all that much about what is actually true, perceptions are in some ways even more important if they determine courses of action. http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=185 Regards, Ray. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
We need your help to save Foundation dollars now and in the future
I need some help from the legal beagles and the tax beagles among the Brin-Lers. This came into my Inbox and wherever possible I try to do as much homework as possible before taking action. I checked http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c108:1:./temp/~c108gznd6N:e21814 or http://tinyurl.com/djqc and wasn't really capable of consolidating the consequences the Ethel Louise Armstrong Foundation claims the amendments to Section 105 will have on the Charitable Giving Act of 2003 . I would have appreciated them including the URL rather than just referring to it. I suppose a lot of people would just go and write the letter they are suggesting without giving it further thought. Cheers! -- Han Tacoma ~ Artificial Intelligence is better than none! ~ - Original Message - Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 00:01:25 -0500 From: Disabled Disability and Psychology Discussion Group [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date:Wed, 4 Jun 2003 00:15:11 -0400 From:LCCCD Inc [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: We need your help to save Foundation dollars now and in the future We need your help to save Foundation dollars now and in the future!!! Dear Friends, I need your help in an important matter that will affect the future of Foundations across America. There are many laws that govern the administration and philanthropy of foundations that have been in effect for many years. We are at a crucial point in history when these current laws are about to change and could wipe out small to medium sized foundations forever. All foundations are supposed to distribute 5% of their endowments annually. Some administrative costs can be charged against the 5% which allows small foundations to accomplish their vision and mission. Currently there is a bill in the house: Section 105 of H.R.7; that will not allow a foundation to use any of its current allotment for administration of grants and will demand that foundations give away a higher percentage of their shrinking assets than in the past. This legislation is very short sighted in that foundations will be forced to spend down their endowments more quickly and have nothing left for the future. Therefore, millions of foundations will disappear in a short period of time if this legislation is allowed to go forth. The future of millions of small foundations across the United States are dependent upon the defeat of Section 105 of HR7. I need you to help us fight this unfair proposed legislation. Time is of the essence since they may start to move this bill through the house when they return on June 3. I am including a copy of a letter that you can revise or use to send to your Congressman. You can go to www.congress.org and send an email to your legislator directly or mail it to them at the address provided on that website. If you would pass this message on to other nonprofits and friends that will be adversely affected by this legislation now and in the future, that would be helpful as well. If you have questions or need information, please contact me directly. Thanks for your help in this important matter. Deborah Lewis Executive Director Ethel Louise Armstrong Foundation 2460 North Lake Ave. PMB #128 Altadena, CA 91001 (626)398-8840 voice (626)398-8843 fax [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ela.org -- The letter you can use is below: Dear Congressman The majority of foundations strive to practice ethical and responsive philanthropy, to do effective grantmaking and to be of value to our communities as well as to our grantees. So I am curious as to why Congress wants to destroy small to medium foundations in the United States. In H.R.7 there is a provision in Section 105 that will eliminate all small and medium foundations in the US in a very short time. Let me tell you why: This provision eliminates the ability for foundations to provide administrative costs associated with the current 5% payout. Those of us who have small to medium sized endowments would be forced to dig deeper into our already diminishing principle. This will mean an eventual zeroing out of foundation resources and elimination of millions of foundations across the United States. Foundations have to earn a minimum 10% rate of return on investments in order to do the bare minimum of a 5% payout. No one is currently getting a 10% rate of return in this economy. With the shrinking stock market and lower rates of return, all foundations have already lost substantial investments in their portfolios. This means smaller endowments for foundations to depend on for current and future grantmaking. For grantees and communities this means a bigger infusion of donations in the short run and then, ...nothing. In the long term this will have a disasterous effect on the non profit community as well as the most vulnerable segments of our society. In the long run it will also discourage future philanthropists to create endowed foundations. While H.R.7 might be a popular bill that is
RE: Are you a model citizen?
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Andrew Crystall ... Yeah, the stamp upside-down thing is priceless. As a note, I've has the police called on me for breaking into my own house once. I had to break into my own house after the police locked me out. AND I had just come from a hospital where I'd seen my best friend's son for the last time before he died. AND it was 11 p.m. I didn't get back inside until well after midnight. AND it was on my birthday! Here's what happened. This was on the second floor of an apartment complex, where I shared an entrance area with one other apartment. The neighbor across from me got into an argument there with a guy who owed him money, and apparently threatened to kill him. One of the downstairs neighbors overheard this and called the police. But by the time they arrived, the argument was over and both parties were gone. Unfortunately, the downstairs neighbor thought that the argument was in my apartment, so the cops got the keys from the manager and checked inside my apartment. When they left, they locked both deadbolts -- that apartment had an extra one, for some reason, but I never even had a key for the second one. So there I was, exhausted, burned out (my friend's son had been ill for a very long six months) and actually laughing about the fact that this was all happening on my birthday. The apartment manager wouldn't come to her door, so I called the police to see how they reached her. They called her and she said it was too late at night for her to even come to her door. But the apartment management company eventually repaid me for the locksmith. That was a rotten day. Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: China RFID tracking people
Computer can you tell me the location of Gordy LaForge? --- The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://news.com.com/2009-1088-984352.html?tag=fd_rndm#38 China raises the red tag RFID tags aren't just for tracking consumer goods any more. The Chinese Communist Party is experimenting with tagging and tracking people. Delegates to the recent Communist Party Congress were required to wear an RFID badge equipped with the tiny tag, which permitted their movements around the conference to be constantly tracked and recorded. RFID stands for radio frequency identification, and each tag has a unique number associated with it. Some large retailers are experimenting with the system to track inventory and cut down on shoplifting. In a new application of the technology, Texas Instruments provided its client with about 20,000 of the tags. As attendees moved throughout the various areas of the conference, their badges were electronically read by one of 20 TI S6550 Long Range Readers with customized gate antennas, strategically placed throughout the conference area, a company newsletter says. In addition to real-time monitoring of the delegates, the setup let security guards perform identity checks by comparing a database photo with the badge holder's face. We expect our access-control business to accelerate over the next couple of years as corporations and governmental agencies raise the level of security for their people and their assets, said TI spokesman Bill Allen. For some reason, China's leaders seem to be shying away from additional publicity. We'd love to do a full-blown press release, case study, etc., but the (Chinese) Communist Party will not allow it at this time, Allen said. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l = _ Jan William Coffey _ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: China RFID tracking people
--- The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://news.com.com/2009-1088-984352.html?tag=fd_rndm#38 China raises the red tag RFID tags aren't just for tracking consumer goods any more. The Chinese Communist Party is experimenting with tagging and tracking people. Computer can you tell me the location of Gordy LaForge? = _ Jan William Coffey _ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Use of cameras
And this is at least three times I've seen a reference to cars being safe, except against SUVs. (And this is stating the obvious) There are trees, rocks, cliffs, animals, buildings...any number of things that can go wrong. A person is mostly safer in a bigger vehicle against those things, whether it's an SUV or a Lincoln. I think we are both generalizing, without facts. I checked it out and found it interesting that you mentioned Lincoln. The Lincoln Mark 7 is considered a very deadly car. More results for specific vehicle models: For a very large luxury car, the Lincoln Town Car's death rate is surprisingly high. In part, this reflects the concentration of elderly people among Town Car drivers. Fifty-six percent of the people killed in crashes of this car during 1995-98 were 65 years or older, compared with 15 percent of all fatally injured drivers. The Lincoln Mark VIII, a large luxury coupe, also has a high death rate, but only 15 percent of its fatally injured drivers were 65 or older. The Mark VIII's high rate is mostly because of single-vehicle crash deaths, which are more frequent in two-door cars and coupes. The deadlest car? A Geo Metro (209). the safest? Nissan Quest(18), with a close second - Infiniti j30(20). (number is No. of deaths per million registration years) Here are the facts for each car. They break it down into fatalities for Single vehicle accidents, Multiple vehicle accidents, and rollovers. single vehicle accidents falls within the realm of what you described - Vehicle vs imovable object. Look up your car to see how it compares... The facts are surprising. http://www.hwysafety.org/sr_ddr/sr3507_t2.htm As you can expect, the incidence of rollover deaths increase with the weight, whereas the incidence of deaths with single vehicle accidents increase as weight decreases. There are interesting anomolies, like the Honda civic, which is twice as safe as a Kia Sephia. Overall, our generalizations were both correct. Large vehicles are at risk for rollovers, and small vehicles are at risk in collisions. I was wrong in my assuption that if there were more smaller vehicles, there would be safer roads. I see now that this is not the case. However, there may be a day when there are reliable statistics available to do an projection as to whether or not death rates go down as the number of SUV's decrease. Now to agree with you, SUVs are shit because of the exemptions on the way they are built, classified, and taxed. Don't forget the way they are driven. Kevin T. - VRWC Nerd From Hell ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Are you a model citizen?
From: Gary Nunn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.thesite.org/magazine/dodgy.html Upstanding How refreshing that there are still people around like you, who respect society and the law. Your Grandparents would be proud. You have a good knowledge of the law and a good public spirit, or you have rarely left the house... Either way - keep it up old fruit! Based on your answers, we have calculated the maximum penalty for your crimes*: Years in prison: 0 Potential fine: £0 - jmh I'm Not Much Fun Maru ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Are you a model citizen?
* Gary Nunn [Wed, 04/06/2003 at 22:13 -0400] Find out just how much of a model citizen you are A word of caution... remember that this is a British website and them British tend to do things a bit different :-) Years in prison: 8.5 Potential fine: £7500 But most of the illegal stuff was done about 25 years ago when I was in my teens. -- Jean-Marc ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: night shifts
On 5 Jun 2003 at 7:09, Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 02:57 AM 6/5/03 -0500, The Fool wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/conditions/06/04/cancer.nightshifts.re ut/ Nurses who work regular night shifts have a higher risk of colon cancer, a study found, suggesting a relationship between the amount of sunlight exposure and the cancer. So presumably the solution is to let the patients just fend for themselves until morning . . . ...provide deacent lighting... Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: night shifts
On 5 Jun 2003 at 7:09, Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 02:57 AM 6/5/03 -0500, The Fool wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/conditions/06/04/cancer.nightshifts.re ut/ Nurses who work regular night shifts have a higher risk of colon cancer, a study found, suggesting a relationship between the amount of sunlight exposure and the cancer. So presumably the solution is to let the patients just fend for themselves until morning . . . Andy responded: ...provide deacent lighting... Rotate shifts and spread the risk around. Reggie Bautista Yes, I *did* work in insurance Maru :-) _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: night shifts
Reggie Bautista wrote: On 5 Jun 2003 at 7:09, Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 02:57 AM 6/5/03 -0500, The Fool wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/conditions/06/04/cancer.nightshifts.re ut/ Nurses who work regular night shifts have a higher risk of colon cancer, a study found, suggesting a relationship between the amount of sunlight exposure and the cancer. So presumably the solution is to let the patients just fend for themselves until morning . . . Andy responded: ...provide deacent lighting... Rotate shifts and spread the risk around. But you need to be careful how often you rotate the shifts -- every 2 weeks, and people's sleep schedules get severely messed up; just as they're adapting to the new one, the change throws them for another loop. At least, that's what I remember from an article analyzing the incident at Three Mile Island not too long after it happened (and that was what, 2/3 of my lifetime ago?). I'd say rotating the shifts every 2 months would probably be best, based on what I typed above. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Br!n: Janelle
From: Robert Seeberger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Janelle was the first female alpha-mail on the list and was the third listowner with Hector and Julia and later with Nick and Julia. I was going to say something about this but then I forgot what it was... Obligatory second line. - jmh Brin Who Maru ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Br!n: Br!n 9/11 statement shown accurate again
From: Andrew Crystall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Isn't that the (potential) problem? You might be coherent enough to grab your gun and move. But would you be coherent enough to recognize that this wasn't a fight or flight situation? I'm using a blade, remember. And I keep it OUT of reach when there are prople I don't know in the house. I can still reach it inside a second, but I have to THINK about it, and hence wake up a lot more. byt to be honest, it's not really applied to that. I was refering there to threatening with weapon versus USING weapon. OK. I'll buy that. However, I wasn't really replying only to you. I was replying to everyone (onlist and off) who says they can wake up and use a weapon to defend themselves without accidentally killing a family member... - jmh ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Scouted: Ten Cool Things about NBA Finals Game 1
http://www.nba.com/allaccess/tencoolthings_game1.html Most of it isn't going to make much sense to a number of people, but I saw #3 and thought that a number of folks would be amused by it, especially Ronn!. If you don't care about humorous bathroom signs, don't bother. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: China RFID tracking people
At 09:20 AM 6/5/03 -0700, Jan Coffey wrote: --- The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://news.com.com/2009-1088-984352.html?tag=fd_rndm#38 China raises the red tag RFID tags aren't just for tracking consumer goods any more. The Chinese Communist Party is experimenting with tagging and tracking people. Computer can you tell me the location of Gordy LaForge? breep Heisafictionalcharacterandbesidesyoumisspelledhisname. breep -- Ronn! :) God bless America, Land that I love! Stand beside her, and guide her Thru the night with a light from above. From the mountains, to the prairies, To the oceans, white with foam God bless America! My home, sweet home. -- Irving Berlin (1888-1989) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: China RFID tracking people
Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 09:20 AM 6/5/03 -0700, Jan Coffey wrote: --- The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://news.com.com/2009-1088-984352.html?tag=fd_rndm#38 China raises the red tag RFID tags aren't just for tracking consumer goods any more. The Chinese Communist Party is experimenting with tagging and tracking people. Computer can you tell me the location of Gordy LaForge? breep Heisafictionalcharacterandbesidesyoumisspelledhisname. breep But he'd have been *saying* it to the computer, and as long as he pronounced it right, the computer wouldn't give a hoot as to how he mentally spelled it. :) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: China RFID tracking people
At 15:43 2003-06-05 -0500, Julia wrote: Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 09:20 AM 6/5/03 -0700, Jan Coffey wrote: --- The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://news.com.com/2009-1088-984352.html?tag=fd_rndm#38 China raises the red tag RFID tags aren't just for tracking consumer goods any more. The Chinese Communist Party is experimenting with tagging and tracking people. Computer can you tell me the location of Gordy LaForge? breep Heisafictionalcharacterandbesidesyoumisspelledhisname. breep But he'd have been *saying* it to the computer, and as long as he pronounced it right, the computer wouldn't give a hoot as to how he mentally spelled it. :) Julia Actually, he's just talking to his mouse. Use the keyboard Scotty! Jean-Louis 1 line Couturier ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: night shifts
At 02:00 PM 6/5/03 -0500, Reggie Bautista wrote: On 5 Jun 2003 at 7:09, Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 02:57 AM 6/5/03 -0500, The Fool wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/conditions/06/04/cancer.nightshifts.re ut/ Nurses who work regular night shifts have a higher risk of colon cancer, a study found, suggesting a relationship between the amount of sunlight exposure and the cancer. So presumably the solution is to let the patients just fend for themselves until morning . . . Andy responded: ...provide deacent lighting... Rotate shifts and spread the risk around. A study that came out several years ago (too long ago for me to recall the reference, sorry) came to the conclusion that the way rotating shifts were usually implemented in industry was almost the perfect way to guarantee maximum disruption of the circadian rhythms of the workers involved: i.e., just about the time their bodies were adapting to one schedule, their shift would change again and they would have to start adapting all over again. The study said that accidents, both on-the-job and traffic accidents driving to and from work, were more common in rotating-shift workers than in fixed-shift workers (even those on the graveyard shift) because they were always tired, and it would be better from a safety standpoint to keep people on the same shift rather than rotating them. Assuming the results of both studies are correct, then, I suppose now one needs to consider whether the risk of cancer among night workers is greater than or less than the risk to the workers and others of the fatigue caused by rotating shifts . . . -- Ronn! :) God bless America, Land that I love! Stand beside her, and guide her Thru the night with a light from above. From the mountains, to the prairies, To the oceans, white with foam God bless America! My home, sweet home. -- Irving Berlin (1888-1989) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Format and Media consolidation of America [L3]
At 12:12 PM 6/4/03 -0500, Reggie Bautista wrote: Ronn! wrote: Ever Wonder What It Meant When The Animaniacs Ran Around Chanting Boinky Boinky Boinky Maru I thought it was Boingy Boingy Boingy... Emily Latella Never mind. /Emily Latella Endangered Feces Maru -- Ronn! :) God bless America, Land that I love! Stand beside her, and guide her Thru the night with a light from above. From the mountains, to the prairies, To the oceans, white with foam God bless America! My home, sweet home. -- Irving Berlin (1888-1989) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: night shifts
Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 02:00 PM 6/5/03 -0500, Reggie Bautista wrote: On 5 Jun 2003 at 7:09, Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 02:57 AM 6/5/03 -0500, The Fool wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/conditions/06/04/cancer.nightshifts.re ut/ Nurses who work regular night shifts have a higher risk of colon cancer, a study found, suggesting a relationship between the amount of sunlight exposure and the cancer. So presumably the solution is to let the patients just fend for themselves until morning . . . Andy responded: ...provide deacent lighting... Rotate shifts and spread the risk around. A study that came out several years ago (too long ago for me to recall the reference, sorry) came to the conclusion that the way rotating shifts were usually implemented in industry was almost the perfect way to guarantee maximum disruption of the circadian rhythms of the workers involved: i.e., just about the time their bodies were adapting to one schedule, their shift would change again and they would have to start adapting all over again. The study said that accidents, both on-the-job and traffic accidents driving to and from work, were more common in rotating-shift workers than in fixed-shift workers (even those on the graveyard shift) because they were always tired, and it would be better from a safety standpoint to keep people on the same shift rather than rotating them. Assuming the results of both studies are correct, then, I suppose now one needs to consider whether the risk of cancer among night workers is greater than or less than the risk to the workers and others of the fatigue caused by rotating shifts . . . One thing that can be done, and is in at least some instances, is to pay the night workers more for the same work. Then you could recommend to them to invest their extra to help defray costs of cancer treatment later. :P Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Amusement if your net connection is intermittent
Our net connection keeps going down for a minute or 10 today, and I have something set up just pinging, so's I can look and see if it's down before I try to do something on-line. And then I remembered the most hillarious review of a book I'd ever seen at amazon.com. The book is found here, and the review in question starts 1/4 to 1/3 down the page. (The reviewer is John E. Fracisco.) http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0140502416/qid=1054846508/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/102-7348045-4916133 Anyway, considering the frustrations I've been having with the connection, this was just the pick-me-up I needed, and thought I'd share with anyone who'd get a kick out of it. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Are you a model citizen?
From: Kevin Tarr [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Are you a model citizen? Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 05:37:01 -0400 At 10:13 PM 6/4/2003 -0400, you wrote: Find out just how much of a model citizen you are A word of caution... remember that this is a British website and them British tend to do things a bit different :-) http://www.thesite.org/magazine/dodgy.html I had potentially 17 years in prison :-) Gary 6 years, 2500 fines. An 'Upstanding Citizen' who could get 65 years in prison?!? Yikes. What do they do to real offenders? Years in prison: 65.5 Potential fine: £0 Jon _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: China RFID tracking people
At 15:43 2003-06-05 -0500, Julia wrote: Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 09:20 AM 6/5/03 -0700, Jan Coffey wrote: --- The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://news.com.com/2009-1088-984352.html?tag=fd_rndm#38 China raises the red tag RFID tags aren't just for tracking consumer goods any more. The Chinese Communist Party is experimenting with tagging and tracking people. Computer can you tell me the location of Gordy LaForge? breep Heisafictionalcharacterandbesidesyoumisspelledhisname. breep But he'd have been *saying* it to the computer, and as long as he pronounced it right, the computer wouldn't give a hoot as to how he mentally spelled it. :) Geordie is not pronounced the same as Gordy, either. -- Ronn! :) God bless America, Land that I love! Stand beside her, and guide her Thru the night with a light from above. From the mountains, to the prairies, To the oceans, white with foam God bless America! My home, sweet home. -- Irving Berlin (1888-1989) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Br!n: Janelle
--- Horn, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Robert Seeberger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Janelle was the first female alpha-mail on the list and was the third listowner with Hector and Julia and later with Nick and Julia. I was going to say something about this but then I forgot what it was... See, what did I tell you, Gibbs memories. They come and go because they are canceled differently at different coordinates. Brin Who Maru Brain Who? Dr. Brin Who? Dr. Who? 87) Jan Jelly Babby Maru = _ Jan William Coffey _ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: China RFID tracking people
--- Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 15:43 2003-06-05 -0500, Julia wrote: Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 09:20 AM 6/5/03 -0700, Jan Coffey wrote: --- The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://news.com.com/2009-1088-984352.html?tag=fd_rndm#38 China raises the red tag RFID tags aren't just for tracking consumer goods any more. The Chinese Communist Party is experimenting with tagging and tracking people. How is this any different than on StarTrek? Computer can you tell me the location of Gordy LaForge? breep Heisafictionalcharacterandbesidesyoumisspelledhisname. breep But he'd have been *saying* it to the computer, and as long as he pronounced it right, the computer wouldn't give a hoot as to how he mentally spelled it. :) Geordie is not pronounced the same as Gordy, either. How so? Jan is dyslexic. This has been gone over ages ago. Hence my comment about the *pronunciation*. I've seen worse misspellings by him, and been able to figure out most of them from context. And for someone picky about the spelling, your house isn't exactly stoneproof. It's Geordi, no e at the end, so there, :P (pronounced nyeah in this context). [Ref.: http://us.imdb.com/Title?0092455] Hay, No one finds misspelling more humorous than me, I love puns. It does get annoying sometimes though when more attention is paid to something that to me is frivolous than the actual information I was trying to impart. When spelling does not affect ones reading it is hard to imagine why anyone else would focus on it. People who dont read phonetically seemed awfully lazy to me when I was younger. No offence mind you, just trying to provide the other perspective. Just to clarify, I don't mentally spell things. I am somewhat incapable of connecting spellings to meanings, but I can connect sounds to meanings. Since English has no consistent system (logical rules) of spelling I have no way of knowing the difference between an abundance of possible spellings. When confronted with an unknown word in a known context I can work it out based on root words etc. (Just like everyone else, except based on the sound of the root rather than the spelling.) But if it's close enough, but improperly spelled I don't even notice. Being confronted with many different accents during development exacerbated my condition. For a dyslexic I have always been a very functional reader. I learned to character read from a very early age. Going the other direction is difficult. You would think that I would spell everything phonetically but I dont because I do remember some of the oddities, only not always correctly. I spell check everything -on list- but spellcheckers are notorious for not having Proper nouns. Sorry. The topic on this list is a big rerun, but if you want to learn more about dyslexia or discuss dyslexia, ausbergers, ADD, any other learning disabilities, eccentricities, or pariah conditions, (all of which are now mostly protected under civil liberities laws) feel free to e-mail me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Now without spellchecking: Hay, No one finds mispelling more humerous than me, I love puns. It does get annoying sometimes though when more attention is paid to something that to me is frivolous than the actual information I was trying to impart. When spelling does not effect ones reading it is hard to imagine why anyone else would focus on it. People who dont read phoneticaly seemd aufuly lazy to me when I was younger. No offence mind you, just trying to provide the other perspective. Just to clarify, I don't mentaly spell things. I am somewhat incapable of connecting spellings to meanings, but I can connect sounds to meanings. Since english has no consistant system (logical rules) of spelling I have no way of knowing the differance between an abundence of possibl spellings. When confronted with an unkown word in a known context I can work it out based on root words etc. (Just like everyone else, except based on the sound of the root rather than the spelling.) But if it's close enough, but improperly spelled I don't even notice. Being confronted with many different accents during development exaserbated my condition. For a dyslexic I have always been a very functional reader. I learnd to character read from a very early age. Going the other direction is diffacult. You would think that I would spell everything phoneticaly but I dont becaose I do remember some of the audities, only not allways correctly. I spell check everything -on list- but spellcheckers are notorious for not having Proper nouns. Sorry. The topic on this list is a big rerun, but if you want to leran more about dyslexia or discuss dyslexia, ausbergers, ADD, any other learning disabilities, excentricities, or paria conditions, (all of which are now mostly protected under civil liberities laws) feel free to e-mail me at [EMAIL
Re: night shifts
I'm sorry, but I'm confused. Are they saying the night shift workers get less sunshine than day workers? Why would this be so? Over the course of a year (or 6 months equinox to equinox), there are roughly equal daylight hours and night time hours... If we assume we work between 8-10 hours incl commute and lunch, sleep 6-8 hours, we are left with roughly 8 hours leisure time. Now for me, that's mostly at night, early morning or late afternoon in summer - but for all the shift workers I know, when they do night shift they get to go to the beach, ride in the park, and generally enjoy life in the sun. One cop friend of mine has a great tan whenever he is on night shift, which fades when he's on day shift. It's not like these night shift workers are sleeping in darkened rooms from sunrise to sunset every day all year... Surely it's related to meal breaks or diet variance or something - this is colon health we're talking about... Cheers Russell C. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: night shifts
Russell Chapman wrote: I'm sorry, but I'm confused. Are they saying the night shift workers get less sunshine than day workers? Why would this be so? Over the course of a year (or 6 months equinox to equinox), there are roughly equal daylight hours and night time hours... If we assume we work between 8-10 hours incl commute and lunch, sleep 6-8 hours, we are left with roughly 8 hours leisure time. Now for me, that's mostly at night, early morning or late afternoon in summer - but for all the shift workers I know, when they do night shift they get to go to the beach, ride in the park, and generally enjoy life in the sun. One cop friend of mine has a great tan whenever he is on night shift, which fades when he's on day shift. It's not like these night shift workers are sleeping in darkened rooms from sunrise to sunset every day all year... Surely it's related to meal breaks or diet variance or something - this is colon health we're talking about... The few nurses I personally know who work at hospitals, at least here in KC, work 12 hour shifts. With commute, that's, say, 13 hours. Minimum 8 hours sleep because hospital nursing is stressful work leaves 3 hours leisure time -- minus 1 hour to shower and eat before going to work, and 1 hour to shower and eat after coming home, and those are probably the only 2 meals of the day. Diet could be an issue, but stress is more likely, including the stress of fighting your regular body rhythms to be awake at night, the stress of hospital work, and the stress of no leisure time to speak of, except for on the weekends. (The few nurses I personally know who work at hospitals, I don't see very often.) That's why lots of nurses either try to get jobs with doctor's offices or at non-hospital research facilities, or leave nursing altogether. Reggie Bautista YMMV, of course _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Use of cameras
Chad Cooper wrote: Not to get into the Why SUV's suck argument, smaller vehicles are safer for _other_ drivers. America has started an arms race for defense on the road, buying bigger and bigger vehicles to protect against the other big vehicles. Ah, but then there's always someone bigger... These SUVs didn't find much comfort in being bigger than other cars on the road... http://psychogoat.com/images/mining/imagepages/image31.html http://psychogoat.com/images/mining/imagepages/image8.html Cheers Russell C. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: night shifts
I wrote: The few nurses I personally know who work at hospitals, at least here in KC, work 12 hour shifts. With commute, that's, say, 13 hours. Minimum 8 hours sleep because hospital nursing is stressful work leaves 3 hours leisure time -- minus 1 hour to shower and eat before going to work, and 1 hour to shower and eat after coming home, and those are probably the only 2 meals of the day. Diet could be an issue, but stress is more likely, including the stress of fighting your regular body rhythms to be awake at night, the stress of hospital work, and the stress of no leisure time to speak of, except for on the weekends. I forgot to mention they work 4 days on, 2 days off, so their weekends don't always match up with the weekends of their significant others. Reggie Bautista _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Blogging
Hi folks. Well, I've joined the blogosphere, along with several others of us. If any of y'all sends me a link to theirs, btw, I'd be happy to link to yours, although I'm quite certain that all of you have more readers than I do. Anyways, mine is at mukunda.blogspot.com I'm starting out with a review of Michael Lewis's _Moneyball_ which I think the baseball fans on the list might find interesting. Gautam = Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freedom is not free http://mukunda.blogspot.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: night shifts
Reggie Bautista wrote: The few nurses I personally know who work at hospitals, at least here in KC, work 12 hour shifts. I forgot to mention they work 4 days on, 2 days off, so their weekends don't always match up with the weekends of their significant others. That's a 56 hour week! Our nurses work either a 35 or 38 hour week. How do they convince anyone to become a nurse with those conditions? Cheers Russell C. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: night shifts
Russell wrote: That's a 56 hour week! Our nurses work either a 35 or 38 hour week. How do they convince anyone to become a nurse with those conditions? 16 hours a week of overtime pay (1.5 times regular rate), except for those nurses who are on salary instead of being paid hourly. As is pretty typical in the US, salaried=screwed. Reggie Bautista _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: night shifts
At 03:59 PM 6/5/03 -0500, Julia Thompson wrote: Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 02:00 PM 6/5/03 -0500, Reggie Bautista wrote: On 5 Jun 2003 at 7:09, Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 02:57 AM 6/5/03 -0500, The Fool wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/conditions/06/04/cancer.nightshifts.re ut/ Nurses who work regular night shifts have a higher risk of colon cancer, a study found, suggesting a relationship between the amount of sunlight exposure and the cancer. So presumably the solution is to let the patients just fend for themselves until morning . . . Andy responded: ...provide deacent lighting... Rotate shifts and spread the risk around. A study that came out several years ago (too long ago for me to recall the reference, sorry) came to the conclusion that the way rotating shifts were usually implemented in industry was almost the perfect way to guarantee maximum disruption of the circadian rhythms of the workers involved: i.e., just about the time their bodies were adapting to one schedule, their shift would change again and they would have to start adapting all over again. The study said that accidents, both on-the-job and traffic accidents driving to and from work, were more common in rotating-shift workers than in fixed-shift workers (even those on the graveyard shift) because they were always tired, and it would be better from a safety standpoint to keep people on the same shift rather than rotating them. Assuming the results of both studies are correct, then, I suppose now one needs to consider whether the risk of cancer among night workers is greater than or less than the risk to the workers and others of the fatigue caused by rotating shifts . . . One thing that can be done, and is in at least some instances, is to pay the night workers more for the same work. Then you could recommend to them to invest their extra to help defray costs of cancer treatment later. :P Does that include enough extra pay to prevent the eventual lawsuit? -- Ronn! :) God bless America, Land that I love! Stand beside her, and guide her Thru the night with a light from above. From the mountains, to the prairies, To the oceans, white with foam God bless America! My home, sweet home. -- Irving Berlin (1888-1989) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: night shifts
--- The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/conditions/06/04/cancer.nightshifts.reut/ Nurses who work regular night shifts have a higher risk of colon cancer, a study found, suggesting a relationship between the amount of sunlight exposure and the cancer. The study by researchers at Harvard Medical School and Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston supports earlier research that found women who work night shifts have a higher risk of breast cancer. Because night-shift work has become very common in developed countries, future studies should assess the relationship of light exposure to the risk of other cancers and consider the risks in men, they wrote... It probably isn't so much the lack of sunlight as it is the excess of artificial light, which decreases the ~1AM production of melatonin (although lack of sustained bright light is connected to depression and I think some other neurochemical problems). http://my.webmd.com/content/Article/66/79657.htm?printing=true ...During the dark nighttime hours, the body produces a hormone called melatonin, which is also called the hormone of the dark, Schernhammer says. The peak production of melatonin occurs at about 1 or 2 a.m. Exposure to light at night stops the production of melatonin. In animal experiments and in some laboratory studies, melatonin demonstrated the ability to protect against the development of cancers, and several researchers suggest that it works the same way in humans, says Schernhammer... There has also been research suggesting that too much light at night causes retinal damage (the level was roughly 'if you can read by it, it's too bright'). I wonder if taking supplemental melatonin (at the person's 'bedtime') would correct the deficit? And since we know that melatonin production decreases with age (that's why, as a sleeping aid, 1 mg tends to work better for older folk; I tried it when I was doing shift work in residency, but it didn't seem to help my sleep at all), is it a factor in cancer occurence? And what about those of us who keep bizarre hours anyway; will our cancer risk be higher? Hmm, better keep those multivitamins and fresh veggies coming... Debbi whose own sleep cycle used to be 1 or 2AM to 10AM, but having had to adapt, it's now just non-regular :P __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: L3: World cancer death rates have increased...
--- Jan Coffey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Han Tacoma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chad (Wed, 4 Jun 2003 09:05:30 -0700) writes: From: Steve Sloan II Han Tacoma forwarded: Cancer was responsible for 12 percent of the nearly 56 million deaths worldwide from all causes in 2000. In industrialized countries more than one in four people will die from the disease, a rate more than twice as high as developing countries. Could it be because people in industrialized countries are more likely to live long enough to *get* cancer? I think so, but the numbers only suggested a modest increase due to age - about 25% more likely. Industrial countries have a 50% greater incidence of cancer. Lifestyle still seems to be the most common indicator for cancer (obesity, smoking, viral infection). We eat a lot. Yes to all your comments. It seems however that Americans are really in a state of denial :-( All true. However, A greater percent of diagnosis may have more to say about the ability or likelihood of diagnosing rather than, or in addition to, the likelihood of the disease. Obesity is a serious problem for America, but are smoking and viral infection more likely? Tobacco-related cancers are reputed to range from 50-90% of US cancers, viral-related 15-20% [previous citations/post]. About 25% of American men smoke, and 20% of American women; here are pie and bar graphs relating tobacco stats (diseases, percentage of population smoking - with breakdown by age, pregnancy, etc. etc. - site is American Lung Assoc. - lots of gov't. data): http://www.lungusa.org/data/smoke/smk2.pdf Obesity, which is related to breast and colon cancers (with possible others), is very prevalent in the US population, and is growing in Europe as well. From the 1999 NHANES, 61% of US adults are overweight or obese; 26% are obese (BMI 30%). http://www.healthieryou.com/obstats.html European obesity conference (just ended) report: http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/diet.fitness/06/01/obesity.epidemic.reut/ This site lists a number of known virally-induced cancers, but none of these are among the top killer cancers (lung, colon, breast); HIV is associated with a number of cancers, and by impairing the host's immune system makes other cancers (virally triggered [eg Kaposi's, hepatitis] or not) more likely to occur. While papilloma virus is widespread, only several 'types' cause cervical/anal cancer, and that is ~100% curable if caught early (which Pap smears can do). Most sarcomas I've seen listed as viral-induced are animal, except for possible EBV (Epstein-Barr virus) in certain immume-suppressed persons (post-transplant or with AIDS). Although there is the possibility that simian virus-contaminated polio vaccine is related to certain tumors re: recent reports of SV40 DNA sequences in human ependymomas, mesotheliomas, and osteosarcomas -- this has not been borne out thus far by epidemiological surveys. http://dceg.cancer.gov/ebp/veb/ This pdf article discussses viruses (at the end), and goes over environmental, occupational, and genetic factors as well as the role of diet/nutrition in the probable etiology of many cancers. It has a brief discussion of oncogenes and the possible relationship of viruses (which can snip out and propagate some DNA or RNA, and well as 'insert' and 'turn on' genes) to induction of malignancies. http://reach.ucf.edu/~OncEduc1/PDF/sec2.pdf This site has links to many abstracts of infectious causes of cancer: http://www.pedid.chkd.org/004.htm Here is a list of articles that note cancers related to infections (viral, bacterial, protozoal, parasitical), but only the titles are available: http://www.medscape.com/content/1999/00/41/77/417716/417716_ref.html It is likely that other some chronic illnesses, such as multiple sclerosis, are related to viral infection- alteration of a genetically susceptible host's immune system; certain chemicals may also be triggers/inducers in susceptible persons (I'm working on that post still!). While you can't change your genes (yet), lifestyle changes such as avoidance of tobacco and illicit IV drugs, exercise and eating habits to keep weight below obesity level, and a diet rich in varied fruits/vegetables/nuts is probably the best way to reduce cancer risk (as well as heart disease!) for now. Debbi You've Come A Long Way, Baby -- A Long, Long Way Maru (picture a skinny old woman with yellowed skin, teeth and nails, sucking on a cigarette through her tracheostomy, coughing and wheezing all the while) __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: China RFID tracking people
--- Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The gentle and gentile geriatric German general was a genuine genius at geography, geology, and geometry. As do many of his generation, he likes to make generously loud gestures with gerunds, ~and~, he has very smallgeraniums. Gorsh, says Goofy. Meanwhile The tough still coughs as he ploughs the dough. Are you thoroughly through, though? I don't remember all the words it comes from, but IIRC ghoti is an alternative spelling for the sound fish [enou_gh_, ??, pa_ti_ence]... ;) English is such a fun language! Jan, Julia - 'scuse me, *Jul-yer* - wrote a better reply than I could have, as I'd've just said, There *is* no algorithm. ;} Why Isn't It Plural Meese And Hice? Maru (if you have more than one moose in more than one house) __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: L3: World cancer death rates have increased...
This post just popped up tonight in my inbox! --- Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote [on Tues?]: much snippage For just one example: How many women die each year from pregnancy-related and childbirth-related problems in industrialized countries as opposed to in developing countries? How many women in industrialized countries are spared the complications that might very well kill them were they not in industrialized countries, and then go on to develop cancer later? I posted stats on pregnancy/childbirth in developing vs. industrialized countries last year; I'm afraid that I don't remember which thread (although it may have been an abortion one), and the only number/trend I think I recall is that up to 1/3 of all women in developing nations have significant complications, and that figure is more like 1 in 250 in 'First World' women. But I could be s off... Developing nation women *do* have less breast cancer, as the risk decreases with more pregnancies and longer breastfeeding -- but I think I'd take the ability to regulate my fertility, thanks. :P Brain Turning To Swiss Cheese Now Maru __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: night shifts
--- Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Deborah Harrell wrote: And what about those of us who keep bizarre hours anyway; will our cancer risk be higher? Hmm, better keep those multivitamins and fresh veggies coming... Veggies good. The more vitamins you can get from your food, rather than supplementally with vitamin pills, the better, right? Sheep bleat: Vita-mins Good, Veggy-bulls Better! (Poor things, they don't know how to incorporate fruits into their little mntras -- maybe 'vita-mins good, fruity-fulls better?' But then they won't understand that both vbs and ffs are better equally -- excepting those that are more equal, of course!) OK, Now I'm Getting Plain Silly Maru :) __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Irrregulars Questions on Macs
Windows comes with solitaire. Do Macs come with solitaire or any other card games? Explanation Later If Anyone Wants One Maru -- Ronn! :) God bless America, Land that I love! Stand beside her, and guide her Thru the night with a light from above. From the mountains, to the prairies, To the oceans, white with foam God bless America! My home, sweet home. -- Irving Berlin (1888-1989) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
How jealous are you?
http://discoveryhealth.queendom.com/access_jealousy.html 3,4,2,4,3,0,0 -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd; indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widespread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible. - Bertrand Russell ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Blogging
On 5 Jun 2003 at 17:29, Gautam Mukunda wrote: Hi folks. Well, I've joined the blogosphere, along with several others of us. If any of y'all sends me a link to theirs, btw, I'd be happy to link to yours, although I'm quite certain that all of you have more readers than I do. Anyways, mine is at mukunda.blogspot.com I'm starting out with a review of Michael Lewis's _Moneyball_ which I think the baseball fans on the list might find interesting. Heh. A friend and I are currently setting one up at amanalone.net. (should be up in about a week, at current rate of progress..) Don't know how much I'll use it tho. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Use of cameras
Chad Cooper wrote: -Original Message- From: William T Goodall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 4:43 PM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: Re: Use of cameras car with the best brakes (Lexus) could stop in a third of the distance of a 1970's saloon (on which the official braking distance figures are still based). Even a big modern SUV (Range Rover) (You call Range Rover big? Yain't never bin ta' Texas, Son! They grow 'em big there!) What, like the Suburban? Which you can actually *fit* 3 carseats across in, not having to resort to the third row seating? Julia keenly interested in being able to fit 3 carseats into a vehicle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: China RFID tracking people
Deborah Harrell wrote: Jan, Julia - 'scuse me, *Jul-yer* - Don't. Ever. Call. Me. That. Again. Please. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: L3: World cancer death rates have increased...
Deborah Harrell wrote: I posted stats on pregnancy/childbirth in developing vs. industrialized countries last year; I'm afraid that I don't remember which thread (although it may have been an abortion one), and the only number/trend I think I recall is that up to 1/3 of all women in developing nations have significant complications, and that figure is more like 1 in 250 in 'First World' women. But I could be s off... Developing nation women *do* have less breast cancer, as the risk decreases with more pregnancies and longer breastfeeding -- but I think I'd take the ability to regulate my fertility, thanks. :P Longer breastfeeding is good. Good for the child, anyway. Up to a point. I think that someone did a study of various primates and determined that based on a number of factors, the appropriate age of weaning for humans is around 5 years old. Most women in 'First World' countries wean a lot earlier than that. I think I'm kind of out there for not having fully weaned Sammy until 18 months, but it *was* beneficial to him. The apparent immunity benefits he got from it alone were good. (Then again, not having him in day care helped keep him from getting sick, as well. A friend of mine didn't manage to successfully start breastfeeding, had her daughter in day care, and ear infections were a regular thing before the little girl was 12 months old, whereas Sammy didn't have a single ear infection until about 3 months after he was weaned.) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brin: Brin 9/11 statement shown accurate again
At 03:05 PM 6/1/2003 -0700 d.brin wrote: Sorry guys. This is unadulterated BS. I swear, we'll all be doomed if you smart guys don't stop theorizing and look at facts. Fact, the South has the hugest murder rate and rate of violence. It is also Gun Central. THE EXPERIMENT HAS BEEN TRIED and utterly failed. accept falsification. I tired to check this data, and while there do seem to be a number of Southern States near the top of the murder rates, the correlation does not strike me as strong as you suggest. Here is the link I found: http://www.morganquitno.com/CR03samp1.pdf Some interesting notes: The murder rate of Texas (perhaps the gun liberalization capital of the US) is below the national average. The Top 10 includes New York, Maryland, Illinois, and Michigan. Maryland is especially notable since its gun control laws are quite strict. Of course, bordering DC - with the toughest gun laws and the highest murder rate doesn't help. Oklahoma, Montanta, and Colorado (which has a major metro area in the form of Denver) are all in the bottom 25. Idaho is at #38 - if you wanted a state with a macho-male culture and few gun control laws, Idaho would be a good pick. The bottom 10 includes both Dakotas, Iowa, Nebraska, and Wyoming - the home home of the Cowboy six-shooter. This is especially notable since a State that is very comparable to Wyoming in population density, Alaska, is much higher. So, sorry Doc, but I don't think that the data backs you up on this as convincingly as you think. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: How jealous are you?
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://discoveryhealth.queendom.com/access_jealousy.html 9,11,6,9,9,6,0 - jmh ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: China RFID tracking people
From: Julia Thompson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Deborah Harrell wrote: Jan, Julia - 'scuse me, *Jul-yer* - Don't. Ever. Call. Me. That. Again. Please. Must resist. Must resist. MUST RESIST!!! Ah, the urge has passed... (Remember Marvin's wanker post...?) - jmh Stay Good Maru ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Br?n: Br?n 9/11 statement shown accurate again
The Top 10 includes New York, Maryland, Illinois, and Michigan. Maryland is especially notable since its gun control laws are quite strict. Of course, bordering DC - with the toughest gun laws and the highest murder rate doesn't help. Boy, imagine what it would be if it did have liberal gun laws duck!! Nerd From Hell ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: L3: World cancer death rates have increased...
I thought I would ring in on this thread and give my two cents. Being a vegetarian significantly reduces your chances of developing cancers. This is not only because cooked vegetables contain far less carcinogens than cooked meat, but because the cattle produced for inductrial nations is usually laden heavily with sterroids and hormones, which, when consumed, are often absorbed into the body. These growth hormones used on cattle supress the immune system and encourage weight gain, both of which encourage cancer development. Cattle is expencive, and in developing nations, the consumtion of meat is not as prevalent as in industrial nations. I would guess that reduced meat consumption accounts for at least part of the lower cancer rates in developing nations. Michael Harney [EMAIL PROTECTED] Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much... the wheel, New York, wars, and so on, whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely the dolphins believed themselves to be more intelligent than man for precisely the same reasons. - Douglas Adams ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Brin: Brin 9/11 statement shown accurate again
No one here has mentioned non-lethal weapons. The Taser has come a long way, and fufills all of the requirements of a pistol or rifle, except for the range, which is limited to 15 feet. However, for home defense, 15 ft is acceptable, since this is the typical bedroom length. Modern tasers also have features of fast reload, and for those times of close combat, it will stun on touch, without firing. I believe that this fulfills the requirements stated so far for home defense, and addresses the safety concerns brought up related to gun ownership. Here is a list of features of newer tasers: http://www.surveillance-security-protection.com/air_tasers.html KEY FEATURES OF AIR TASERS The ONLY non-lethal remote defense system that can immobilize an attacker from a distance of up to 15' away Touch stun back-up for one-on-one direct contact if needed Non-lethal; no long term injuries Stopping power of a .357 magnum Now legal for personal use; no permits required in most states (check local laws) Compact size - easily fits in a woman's purse Up to 15 minutes incapacitation duration Laser sight option Automatic Timing Anti-criminal tracking Double-safety slide Reloads in less than one second Highest quality (before you attack the features listed, visit the site first, they support every statement made here) Tasers are also less expensive. The deluxe version, with pistol grip and laser sight is under US 500.00. Imagine combining D. Brin's vision of survailance cameras with automated tasers. An intruder trips a motion detector, a brief warning, and any movement triggers the taser to fire. The liability is minimial, requires no interaction from the home owner (one not even need to call the cops, the alarm will do it automatically), and immobilizes a criminal long enough for cops to show up. Now I support owning any type of gun one wants. I assume the liberal position of Evolution in Action - those people who use guns, or allow their children access to guns are allowing this meme to limit their reproductive success. It is truly sad that some children are involved in gun accidents. http://www.childstats.gov/ac2000/hlth6b.asp This indicates that children (ages 5-14 , an accident after 14 is considered suicide) are at the same risk of being murdered, and 4 times more likely from dying from traffic accidents than from dying from an accident from a firearm (1.4 per 100,000). It is very extremely rare. I agree with D. Brin that guns are primarily a macho thing. This may soon pass, but only when it becomes distasteful to own a gun. This won't happen with current Hollywood archtypes (Cop shows MUST Die! Anyone care to start a thread - I especially like CSI - a cop show without guns...). Interestingly enough, a new highly anticipated First person shooter PC games to release this month, Deus Ex: Conspiracy War, highlights that one can go through the game without killing a single NPC. There will be enough non-lethal means to dispatch evil guards to make this happen. Perhaps this is a turning point - the new challenge is to NOT use guns to win. Nerd From Hell ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Brin: Brin 9/11 statement shown accurate again
From: Chad Cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] No one here has mentioned non-lethal weapons. The Taser has come a long way, and fufills all of the requirements of a pistol or rifle, except for the range, which is limited to 15 feet. However, for home defense, 15 ft is acceptable, since this is the typical bedroom length. Modern tasers also have features of fast reload, and for those times of close combat, it will stun on touch, without firing. I believe that this fulfills the requirements stated so far for home defense, and addresses the safety concerns brought up related to gun ownership. Here is a list of features of newer tasers: http://www.surveillance-security-protection.com/air_tasers.html Interesting idea, but I see a few problems: - It says the optimal range is 7-10 feet, which results in a 16 spread on the electrodes. It seems to me that if your aim is off by more than a few inches, one of the probes might miss completely. And that concern would be even greater if you had to fire at the maximum range of 15' - If you miss (see above) or if there is more than one attacker, you're mostly screwed. The point-blank stun gun feature is nice, but I don't see it being that much of a deterrent/defense against a large attacker(s) armed with a knife, especially if they are skilled in hand-to-hand combat and you aren't, or if you are out-sized/strengthed by the attacker. - It says up to 15 minutes incapacitation... What do you do if it takes the cops longer than that to show up? Can you re-stun them with the stun gun, or are the batteries dead by that point? Imagine combining D. Brin's vision of survailance cameras with automated tasers. An intruder trips a motion detector, a brief warning, and any movement triggers the taser to fire. The liability is minimial, requires no interaction from the home owner (one not even need to call the cops, the alarm will do it automatically), and immobilizes a criminal long enough for cops to show up. I wonder if 15 minutes is long enough in all cases It is truly sad that some children are involved in gun accidents. Yeah, with 3 small children in the house, I think I'd have to lock up a gun so securely to make sure they couldn't get it that it'd be almost worthless for home defense. I agree with D. Brin that guns are primarily a macho thing. This may soon pass, but only when it becomes distasteful to own a gun. This won't happen with current Hollywood archtypes (Cop shows MUST Die! Anyone care to start a thread - I especially like CSI - a cop show without guns...). We're big cop show fans - We watch all the Law and Order's and CSI's. We gave up on NYPD Blue about 2 seasons ago. Anyone here watch The Shield? Cop and detective shows are among the few types of TV my wife and I can agree on. Interestingly enough, a new highly anticipated First person shooter PC games to release this month, Deus Ex: Conspiracy War, highlights that one can go through the game without killing a single NPC. There will be enough non-lethal means to dispatch evil guards to make this happen. Perhaps this is a turning point - the new challenge is to NOT use guns to win. Deus Ex 1 was a surprisingly great game for me (especially because it came free with my video card so I had no expectations for it!) I'll definitely buy the sequel when it comes out. If you like that kind of game, you might also what to check out the No One Lives Forever series, and also the Thief series of games. I don't think they go so far as to enable winning with absolutely no killing, but they do offer a lot more non-lethal alternative solutions than most games of that type do. I'm currently playing No One Lives Forever 2 (only $16 at Costco - woot!), and it's great so far. -bryon _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
himmlercroft strikes again
http://www.sunspot.net/cgi-bin/ultbb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=0 30409 Topic: DOJ Bans Annual Gay Pride Event From today's NY Times: WASHINGTON, June 5 The Justice Department has barred a group of employees from holding their annual gay pride event at the department's headquarters, the first time such an event has been blocked by any federal agency, gay rights leaders said today Barbara Comstock, a spokeswoman for the Justice Department, refused to comment. Last year Deputy Attorney General Larry Thompson the second-ranking official at the department spoke to about 150 people at the event in the Great Hall of the department. Ms. Colby said the presence of such a high-ranking official was a really big deal for us, a real sign of support. But Mr. Thompson's appearance drew protests from some conservative groups. Some accused Attorney General John Ashcroft, a social conservative who has spoken out in the past about homosexuality, of abandoning them by allowing last year's event to proceed. Public Advocate, a nonprofit group that describes itself as pro-family, has continued lobbying the Justice Department and other federal agencies in recent months to abandon the gay pride events because it says the events are an inappropriate use of federal resources, said Jesse Binnall, a group spokesman. Told of the decision to cancel this year's Justice Department event, Mr. Binnall said today, We're absolutely thrilled that the Justice Department has made such a bold decision to stand up for American families instead of giving in to special interest groups. Anybody get the irony of that last comment? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: L3: World cancer death rates have increased...
On 6 Jun 2003 at 10:25, Michael Harney wrote: I thought I would ring in on this thread and give my two cents. Being a vegetarian significantly reduces your chances of developing cancers. This is not only because cooked vegetables contain far less carcinogens than cooked meat, but because the cattle produced for inductrial nations is usually laden heavily with sterroids and hormones, which, when consumed, are often absorbed into the body. These growth hormones used on cattle supress the immune system and encourage weight gain, both of which encourage cancer development. Depends on the meat you eat. Meat enhanced that way isn't Kosher, so Jews who follow the dietry laws won't be getting any of that. Also, most of that is banned in Europe anyway. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brin: Brin 9/11 statement shown accurate again
Bryon Daly wrote: From: Chad Cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] No one here has mentioned non-lethal weapons. The Taser has come a long way, and fufills all of the requirements of a pistol or rifle, except for the range, which is limited to 15 feet. However, for home defense, 15 ft is acceptable, since this is the typical bedroom length. Modern tasers also have features of fast reload, and for those times of close combat, it will stun on touch, without firing. I believe that this fulfills the requirements stated so far for home defense, and addresses the safety concerns brought up related to gun ownership. Here is a list of features of newer tasers: http://www.surveillance-security-protection.com/air_tasers.html Interesting idea, but I see a few problems: - It says the optimal range is 7-10 feet, which results in a 16 spread on the electrodes. It seems to me that if your aim is off by more than a few inches, one of the probes might miss completely. And that concern would be even greater if you had to fire at the maximum range of 15' - If you miss (see above) or if there is more than one attacker, you're mostly screwed. The point-blank stun gun feature is nice, but I don't see it being that much of a deterrent/defense against a large attacker(s) armed with a knife, especially if they are skilled in hand-to-hand combat and you aren't, or if you are out-sized/strengthed by the attacker. - It says up to 15 minutes incapacitation... What do you do if it takes the cops longer than that to show up? Can you re-stun them with the stun gun, or are the batteries dead by that point? Imagine combining D. Brin's vision of survailance cameras with automated tasers. An intruder trips a motion detector, a brief warning, and any movement triggers the taser to fire. The liability is minimial, requires no interaction from the home owner (one not even need to call the cops, the alarm will do it automatically), and immobilizes a criminal long enough for cops to show up. I wonder if 15 minutes is long enough in all cases 2 words: Zip ties. In the case of 1 intruder, if you've got zip ties handy, you can tie them up to where they won't be that much of a problem if they come to before the cops get there. And they're available at so many stores, there's no reason *not* to have some. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Corporate Global Health Project
I came across a project that Peter Singer at UofT is associated with, Grand Challenges in Global Health, - an extremely well-funded project (Bill Gates and NIH) to identify some grand challenges to global health and work toward the scientific solution. See www.grandchallengesgh.org. Cheers! -- Han Tacoma ~ Artificial Intelligence is better than none! ~ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: L3: World cancer death rates have increased...
From: Andrew Crystall [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 6 Jun 2003 at 10:25, Michael Harney wrote: I thought I would ring in on this thread and give my two cents. Being a vegetarian significantly reduces your chances of developing cancers. This is not only because cooked vegetables contain far less carcinogens than cooked meat, but because the cattle produced for inductrial nations is usually laden heavily with sterroids and hormones, which, when consumed, are often absorbed into the body. These growth hormones used on cattle supress the immune system and encourage weight gain, both of which encourage cancer development. Depends on the meat you eat. Meat enhanced that way isn't Kosher, so Jews who follow the dietry laws won't be getting any of that. Also, most of that is banned in Europe anyway. How exactly does a cow being injected with hormones make the cow suddenly non-Kosher? I have never heard this before. What jewish law regarding foods does that violate? I know the blood must be drained from the animal, I know that meat can not be eaten with dairy, but never have I heard or read that a cow given hormones is non-Kosher. I am curious about this. Does injecting a cow with hormones render the cows milk non-Kosher as well? Regardless of that though, you still have the problem of cooked meat having far more carcinogens than vegetables. Michael Harney [EMAIL PROTECTED] Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much... the wheel, New York, wars, and so on, whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely the dolphins believed themselves to be more intelligent than man for precisely the same reasons. - Douglas Adams ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Canadian Anti-Smoking Lawsuit Struck Down
Canadian Anti-Smoking Lawsuit Struck Down Fri June 6, 2003 08:05 AM ET By Allan Dowd VANCOUVER (Reuters) - A judge on Thursday struck down the law used by British Columbia when it became the first Canadian province to sue the tobacco industry over the health costs of smoking. [...] http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=healthNewsstoryID=2888928 Pity :-( Cheers! -- Han Tacoma ~ Artificial Intelligence is better than none! ~ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: L3: World cancer death rates have increased...
Michael Harney wrote: Regardless of that though, you still have the problem of cooked meat having far more carcinogens than vegetables. That may depend on how you cook it. If what I've read recently is believable, boiled meat has less in the way of carcinogens than baked, fried or grilled. How do grilled vs. steamed vegetables come out as far as carcinogens go? I know that for many vegetables, raw is better than any cooking method at least in terms of preserving vitamins. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: L3: World cancer death rates have increased...
--- Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Deborah Harrell wrote: I posted stats on pregnancy/childbirth in developing vs. industrialized countries last year; I'm afraid that I don't remember which thread... snip Developing nation women *do* have less breast cancer, as the risk decreases with more pregnancies and longer breastfeeding -- but I think I'd take the ability to regulate my fertility, thanks. :P Well, that wasn't very clear; I meant 'so that I didn't get pregnant at 14 and have 10+ children,' as complications increase in child pregnancies, and complications in adult women of non-developed countries have a poorer chance of being detected and corrected. Longer breastfeeding is good. Good for the child, anyway. Up to a point. I think that someone did a study of various primates and determined that based on a number of factors, the appropriate age of weaning for humans is around 5 years old. snip Ouch! I think that teeth erupting would probably be my cutoff... ;) Semi-related, does anyone know offhand what happened in the case of the woman who was still nursing her 7 or 9 year-old (I forget which)? Debbi __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: L3: World cancer death rates have increased...
From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Michael Harney wrote: Regardless of that though, you still have the problem of cooked meat having far more carcinogens than vegetables. That may depend on how you cook it. If what I've read recently is believable, boiled meat has less in the way of carcinogens than baked, fried or grilled. How do grilled vs. steamed vegetables come out as far as carcinogens go? I know that for many vegetables, raw is better than any cooking method at least in terms of preserving vitamins. Julia Boiling meat does produce far less carcinogens, as IIRC carcinogens usually start to form in meat when it starts to get seered or over-cooked, boiling prevents that, but it is worth noting that that is probably the least used method of cooking meat in the United States, and the same is probably true in other industrial nations. From what I have heard on vegetables, all common methods of cooking produce fairly low carcinogen levels except for deep-frying, in which certain vegetables will produce high levels of certain carcinogens. From a vitamin and carcinogen standpoint, steaming vegetables is probably the best way to prepare them if you don't want to eat raw vegetables. Boiled vegetables lose a lot of their vitamins. Pan frying, grilling, or baking probably produces a bit more carcinogens than boiling and steaming, but is not much compared to meat cooked similarly. Deep frying? Well, that depends on the vegetable you are cooking. Michael Harney [EMAIL PROTECTED] Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much... the wheel, New York, wars, and so on, whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely the dolphins believed themselves to be more intelligent than man for precisely the same reasons. - Douglas Adams ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: L3: World cancer death rates have increased...
At 02:57 PM 6/6/2003 -0500, you wrote: Michael Harney wrote: Regardless of that though, you still have the problem of cooked meat having far more carcinogens than vegetables. That may depend on how you cook it. If what I've read recently is believable, boiled meat has less in the way of carcinogens than baked, fried or grilled. How do grilled vs. steamed vegetables come out as far as carcinogens go? I know that for many vegetables, raw is better than any cooking method at least in terms of preserving vitamins. Julia Ahh what does it matter? Vegetable are superior because they are never sprayed for pest.are not genetically enhanc...are harvested by workers earning a living wag.. My brother's family has two pigs, three turkeys, and a cow. No growth hormones there. Soon we will have freezers full of meat. Kevin T. - VRWC Free range humans ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Brin: Brin 9/11 statement shown accurate again
--- Chad Cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No one here has mentioned non-lethal weapons. That's becouse if someone invades you home and you taze them they can bring civil suits against you for decades. If you kill them, end of story. = _ Jan William Coffey _ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
English language (was: China RFID tracking people)
--- Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Deborah Harlem wrote: ^^ Never been there. Is this a word-play I'm just too dense to figure out? Why Isn't It Plural Meese And Hice? Maru (if you have more than one moose in more than one house) Then how would you tell the difference between more than one mouse and more than one moose? By the size of their droppings, of course... ;} Doug I'm gonna' eat you meeses to pieces. So is a single Peanut Butter Cup a Roose? :) Debbi Aych-A-Double-Are-Eee-Double-Ell Maru __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: L3: World cancer death rates have increased...
-Original Message- From: Kevin Tarr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 1:32 PM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: Re: L3: World cancer death rates have increased... At 02:57 PM 6/6/2003 -0500, you wrote: Michael Harney wrote: Regardless of that though, you still have the problem of cooked meat having far more carcinogens than vegetables. That may depend on how you cook it. If what I've read recently is believable, boiled meat has less in the way of carcinogens than baked, fried or grilled. How do grilled vs. steamed vegetables come out as far as carcinogens go? I know that for many vegetables, raw is better than any cooking method at least in terms of preserving vitamins. Julia Ahh what does it matter? Vegetable are superior because they are never sprayed for pest.are not genetically enhanc...are harvested by workers earning a living wag.. Don't forget the poor snakes, birds, and rodents killed during the harvesting of the vegetables and grain. I guess it is better to kill hundred small pests through decapitation, and let their bodies rot in the field, than to kill large animals bred specifically as food. There is also a lot of evidence that suggests that plant protein is different enough from animal protein that it can sttimulate allergic reactions. My brother's family has two pigs, three turkeys, and a cow. No growth hormones there. Soon we will have freezers full of meat. Choice! Nerd From Hell Kevin T. - VRWC Free range humans ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Use of cameras
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Deborah Harrell wrote: They were eliminated for both the presumed guilty reason and the public outcry of accusations of the government just trying to create another revenue stream to make up for a growing deficit created by a very socialist government. ^ not saying a word... ;) Not sure what you mean here. I realize many Americans think Canada to be a very socialist country already. The Ontario NDP's took it to a new level. Oops! I wasn't thinking of _Canadian_ scenarios at all...but nevermind. It wasn't directed at Canada, though serious. Debbi __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: L3: World cancer death rates have increased...
From: Kevin Tarr [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 02:57 PM 6/6/2003 -0500, you wrote: Michael Harney wrote: Regardless of that though, you still have the problem of cooked meat having far more carcinogens than vegetables. That may depend on how you cook it. If what I've read recently is believable, boiled meat has less in the way of carcinogens than baked, fried or grilled. How do grilled vs. steamed vegetables come out as far as carcinogens go? I know that for many vegetables, raw is better than any cooking method at least in terms of preserving vitamins. Julia Ahh what does it matter? Vegetable are superior because they are never sprayed for pest.are not genetically enhanc...are harvested by workers earning a living wag.. Is the attitude really neccessary? We were discussing cancer prevelance in industrial nations, and since there is a correlation between meat eating and cancer, I decided to point out that meat eating is more prevelant in industrial nations than in developing nations, which might partly explain the prevelance in cancer in industrial nations. Your response is to act snide and immature? I had a response composed addressing the issues you brought up, but have no intention of participating in a discussion with someone who will not discuss the topic rationally and intelligently. Michael Harney [EMAIL PROTECTED] Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much... the wheel, New York, wars, and so on, whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely the dolphins believed themselves to be more intelligent than man for precisely the same reasons. - Douglas Adams ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: English language (was: China RFID tracking people)
From: Deborah Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Deborah Harlem wrote: ^^ Never been there. Is this a word-play I'm just too dense to figure out? My guess: maybe an over-zealous spell-checker? _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: L3: World cancer death rates have increased...
From: Chad Cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Kevin Tarr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 1:32 PM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: Re: L3: World cancer death rates have increased... At 02:57 PM 6/6/2003 -0500, you wrote: Michael Harney wrote: Regardless of that though, you still have the problem of cooked meat having far more carcinogens than vegetables. That may depend on how you cook it. If what I've read recently is believable, boiled meat has less in the way of carcinogens than baked, fried or grilled. How do grilled vs. steamed vegetables come out as far as carcinogens go? I know that for many vegetables, raw is better than any cooking method at least in terms of preserving vitamins. Julia Ahh what does it matter? Vegetable are superior because they are never sprayed for pest.are not genetically enhanc...are harvested by workers earning a living wag.. Don't forget the poor snakes, birds, and rodents killed during the harvesting of the vegetables and grain. I guess it is better to kill hundred small pests through decapitation, and let their bodies rot in the field, than to kill large animals bred specifically as food. There is also a lot of evidence that suggests that plant protein is different enough from animal protein that it can sttimulate allergic reactions. The cycle continues. Far earlier than expected. Apperantly I can never speek ill of eating meat, not even in regards to health... hell, never speek of food at all as it is always brought back to this discussion which invariably ends in flaming. I would point out the flaw in your logic, but what would be the point? Nobody listens, it just comes back to it again, and the cycle continues. If you genuinely want to discuss this topic, reply to this and say that you have a genuine desire to discuss the topic rationally and intelligently and I will. But if this is just and attempt at justification (or worse, a deliberate attempt to troll me), your efforts are unneccessary/wasted on me now, so don't bother. Don't post to a topic unless you have a genuine desire to discuss it. Mocking posts only lead to flame wars and killfiles. Michael Harney [EMAIL PROTECTED] Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much... the wheel, New York, wars, and so on, whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely the dolphins believed themselves to be more intelligent than man for precisely the same reasons. - Douglas Adams ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brin: Brin 9/11 statement shown accurate again
On Fri, Jun 06, 2003 at 02:41:44PM -0500, Julia Thompson wrote: Bryon Daly wrote: I wonder if 15 minutes is long enough in all cases 2 words: Zip ties. 1 word: Run! You don't have to stay in the house. You can go to a neighbor's, drive away in your car, or just take off running. -- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: L3: World cancer death rates have increased...
Deborah Harrell wrote: --- Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think that someone did a study of various primates and determined that based on a number of factors, the appropriate age of weaning for humans is around 5 years old. snip Ouch! I think that teeth erupting would probably be my cutoff... ;) I stuck it out. He'd learned *very* early on not to bite (before he had any teeth) and managed to stick with not biting until around 17 1/2 months, and then we'd have little incidents where I warned him that the next bite would terminate the feeding, and he was usually good about it after that. (He started biting me around 2 weeks, and demonstrated an ability to learn: he'd bite, I'd say, ouch, and pry him off the nipple for a minute or so. After a day or two, he'd let go just at the ouch. Then he figured out how not to elicit the ouch in the first place, and we were in good shape for quite awhile.) Getting bit once during the 1 feeding a day near the end isn't so bad, unless it's hard. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Br!n: Br!n 9/11 statement shown accurate again
Jan Coffey wrote: --- Chad Cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No one here has mentioned non-lethal weapons. That's becouse if someone invades you home and you taze them they can bring civil suits against you for decades. Depends on the state. If I tazed someone in my house, I could probably bring civil suits against *them*, depending on what they'd done before I tazed them. If you kill them, end of story. In some jurisdictions, that's just not a good thing to do. And I'd just as soon have the perp alive to be prosecuted and rot in Huntsville for awhile, but maybe that's just me. But if I had to kill to protect myself and family members, and had the wherewithal to do so, I would. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Br!n: Br!n 9/11 statement shown accurate again
From: Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Fri, Jun 06, 2003 at 02:41:44PM -0500, Julia Thompson wrote: Bryon Daly wrote: I wonder if 15 minutes is long enough in all cases 2 words: Zip ties. 1 word: Run! You don't have to stay in the house. You can go to a neighbor's, drive away in your car, or just take off running. From what I gather, you have to leave the taser behind after you zap the guy, so that it continues to apply the juice: While the target is disabled, the user can place the device on the ground and escape. ... I just get the scenario in my head of fleeing to a neighbor's house, calling the cops, and by the time the cops get there, the guy is gone, and so is your $500 taser... (Until he returns with it to get revenge, on some future night. Yikes!) Note I'm not trying to say the taser's a bad idea. It certainly would be better than nothing, and also be safer to own with kids around. But it doesn't seem like a fully adequate replacement for a gun in terms of home security. Hopefully perhaps with advancing technology that will change... -Bryon _ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Br!n: Br!n 9/11 statement shown accurate again
Erik Reuter wrote: On Fri, Jun 06, 2003 at 02:41:44PM -0500, Julia Thompson wrote: Bryon Daly wrote: I wonder if 15 minutes is long enough in all cases 2 words: Zip ties. 1 word: Run! You don't have to stay in the house. You can go to a neighbor's, drive away in your car, or just take off running. I'd rather have the perp easily arrestable, if possible. How about, zip ties and *then* run? And I wouldn't use a weapon of any sort unless the option of running were denied me one way or another. If someone shoots out tires on all the vehicles before killing the dogs and busting into the house, I'm going to hide with a weapon and a phone -- and if they find me before the sheriff's deputies get them, they're not going to be happy about it. I think the stun-gun scenario where you've got the stun gun handy for the case of the intruder waking you in your bedroom falls under the can't really run category -- the thing to do is get to where you *can* run, and the stun gun could give you that. A properly used blade could, as well, but then there's the bleeding factor. (I'd rather not have someone bleed to death in my house.) Using the tazer to ambush someone you know is breaking in, and just lying in wait for it to be legal to use force against him is another thing entirely. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: L3: World cancer death rates have increased...
--- Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael Harney wrote: Regardless of that though, you still have the problem of cooked meat having far more carcinogens than vegetables. That may depend on how you cook it. If what I've read recently is believable, boiled meat has less in the way of carcinogens than baked, fried or grilled. How do grilled vs. steamed vegetables come out as far as carcinogens go? I know that for many vegetables, raw is better than any cooking method at least in terms of preserving vitamins. I was reading recently somewhere...I am sure someone can provide feedback... that suggested that cooking (even cooking vegetables) reduced carcinogens and increased vitamin absorption. I think it was Scientific American...maybe it was a dream? = _ Jan William Coffey _ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: L3: World cancer death rates have increased...
-Original Message- From: Michael Harney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 2:36 PM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: Re: L3: World cancer death rates have increased... From: Chad Cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Kevin Tarr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 1:32 PM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: Re: L3: World cancer death rates have increased... The cycle continues. Far earlier than expected. Apperantly I can never speek ill of eating meat, not even in regards to health... hell, never speek of food at all as it is always brought back to this discussion which invariably ends in flaming. I would point out the flaw in your logic, but what would be the point? Nobody listens, it just comes back to it again, and the cycle continues. I have already gone rounds with you on this, and really did not want to get into it again (learned my lesson the first or second time). I honestly have NOTHING against Vegetarianism. I, in fact, curbed my normal inclination to fight you on this. What started my rant is the constant bashing of meat as a heathy, beneficial food item. Because it involves the killing of amimals, extremist will attempt to cut down meat scientifically, in order to indirectly provide some support to win an ethical argument. I see a lot of generalizations, and I suppose I respond back with a bunch of generalizations, in defense of meat. Its childish. My real agenda is to stop people from using science as a bludgeon to support an ethical position. Admit that you do feel self-rightous as a vegetarian. I think I would be as well. You most likely benefit from it,as I probably would as well. This does not mean that it is better. It does not mean that an onmivorious diet is better. Science does not have a clear cut answer to this question, nor does it help much in the getting to the ethical truth. If you feel threatened from me, it is I am attacking the meme that because I eat meat, I am somewhat inferior, or lacking in common sense, dumb or all of the above. You may be promoting this meme, and that is a question only you can answer. If you genuinely want to discuss this topic, reply to this and say that you have a genuine desire to discuss the topic rationally and intelligently and I will. I don't think it can be done, in the same way science cannot tell us what the best diet is (yet). If you want to discuss the ethical dilemma's this is easier to do, and I am open to this. To start, it does bother me animals ar killed to provide sausage for me in the morning. I still eat meat. Does that make me a bad person? But if this is just and attempt at justification (or worse, a deliberate attempt to troll me), your efforts are unneccessary/wasted on me now, so don't bother. Michael, we clearly lie in opposite poles politically, but I think we share many common visions. This can cause conflict. I truly try to understand your position, and feel bound to be critical, because I think it may broaden your perspective on your position. This broadening can reflect back to me, allow me to see that which I resist seeing. Don't post to a topic unless you have a genuine desire to discuss it. Mocking posts only lead to flame wars and killfiles. Its not mocking, its straight beligerence! ;-) That's why I am the Nerd from Hell. Nerd From Hell Michael Harney [EMAIL PROTECTED] Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much... the wheel, New York, wars, and so on, whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely the dolphins believed themselves to be more intelligent than man for precisely the same reasons. - Douglas Adams ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: L3: World cancer death rates have increased...
Jan Coffey wrote: --- Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael Harney wrote: Regardless of that though, you still have the problem of cooked meat having far more carcinogens than vegetables. That may depend on how you cook it. If what I've read recently is believable, boiled meat has less in the way of carcinogens than baked, fried or grilled. How do grilled vs. steamed vegetables come out as far as carcinogens go? I know that for many vegetables, raw is better than any cooking method at least in terms of preserving vitamins. I was reading recently somewhere...I am sure someone can provide feedback... that suggested that cooking (even cooking vegetables) reduced carcinogens and increased vitamin absorption. I think it was Scientific American...maybe it was a dream? I don't think it was a dream. There's at least 1 vegetable that ought to be steamed for a little while to increase the amount of a particular vitamin, but I don't remember which one, and I don't remember where I read it. Awfully helpful today, aren't I? :P But for many vegetables, you're at least as well off eating them raw, if you can handle it. I can with green beans, but I'd really, really prefer my broccoli to be steamed. Julia who also wants her fruit raw, unless it's in a cobbler, or a pie if there's no pumpkin pie available to eat instead ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: L3: World cancer death rates have increased...
I was reading recently somewhere...I am sure someone can provide feedback... that suggested that cooking (even cooking vegetables) reduced carcinogens and increased vitamin absorption. Whenever we were cooking human flesh, The smoke from the charred flesh either from lasing or electrocautery was considered cancerous, and we avoided it (can't avoid the smell though, it's like burnt hair). There were many times where, after being handed a chunk of flesh, that I thought I wonder what this tastes like grilled? I think it is generally accepted that charring is better for you than broiling . This is a great link on the subject, for those Chem majors out there (for once, some real science). http://www.13.waisays.com/cooking.htm Nerd from Hell I think it was Scientific American...maybe it was a dream? = _ Jan William Coffey _ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brin: Brin 9/11 statement shown accurate again
Hi folks! Fun stuff but please remove the Brin: header. db ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: China RFID tracking people
At 04:16 PM 6/5/03 -0500, Julia Thompson wrote: [snip] yes, I'm feeling a little surly, why do you ask? ;) At 08:45 AM 6/6/03 -0500, Julia Thompson wrote: Deborah Harrell wrote: Jan, Julia - 'scuse me, *Jul-yer* - Don't. Ever. Call. Me. That. Again. Please. I was going to ask if you were feeling better today than you were yesterday, but I guess I just got my answer . . . ;-) Tiptoeing Out Of The Room And Easing The Door Closed Maru -- Ronn! :) God bless America, Land that I love! Stand beside her, and guide her Thru the night with a light from above. From the mountains, to the prairies, To the oceans, white with foam God bless America! My home, sweet home. -- Irving Berlin (1888-1989) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: English language (was: China RFID tracking people)
At 01:37 PM 6/6/03 -0700, Deborah Harrell wrote: --- Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Deborah Harlem wrote: ^^ Never been there. Is this a word-play I'm just too dense to figure out? Why Isn't It Plural Meese And Hice? Maru (if you have more than one moose in more than one house) Then how would you tell the difference between more than one mouse and more than one moose? By the size of their droppings, of course... ;} I think you're going to need a bigger mousetrap. And The Extra-Large Pooper-Scooper Maru -- Ronn! :) God bless America, Land that I love! Stand beside her, and guide her Thru the night with a light from above. From the mountains, to the prairies, To the oceans, white with foam God bless America! My home, sweet home. -- Irving Berlin (1888-1989) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brin: Brin 9/11 statement shown accurate again
On 6 Jun 2003 at 17:30, Erik Reuter wrote: On Fri, Jun 06, 2003 at 02:41:44PM -0500, Julia Thompson wrote: Bryon Daly wrote: I wonder if 15 minutes is long enough in all cases 2 words: Zip ties. 1 word: Run! You don't have to stay in the house. You can go to a neighbor's, drive away in your car, or just take off running. Yeah, that's where I'm likely to get into legal trouble. It's not in my nature to back down if there's a threat. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: China RFID tracking people
Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 04:16 PM 6/5/03 -0500, Julia Thompson wrote: [snip] yes, I'm feeling a little surly, why do you ask? ;) At 08:45 AM 6/6/03 -0500, Julia Thompson wrote: Deborah Harrell wrote: Jan, Julia - 'scuse me, *Jul-yer* - Don't. Ever. Call. Me. That. Again. Please. I was going to ask if you were feeling better today than you were yesterday, but I guess I just got my answer . . . Actually, rant I'm probably going to be not quite as pleasant as usual until the 19th. I was scheduled to see a perinatologist yesterday, but she got sick and had to cancel all her appointments yesterday, and she can't see me until the 19th, and until I *get* to see someone who's a specialist in multiple pregnancy, I'm probably going to be a little edgier than normal. I have some questions that I was HOPING to have answered yesterday, and now I have to wait another 2 weeks, and I hate it that I couldn't have a FTF discussion with someone on these issues instead of trying to figure things out from a book that doesn't take into account some things that I need taken into account. /rant ;-) Tiptoeing Out Of The Room And Easing The Door Closed Maru Well, if you slammed it and I yelled, we'd both blow off a little more steam. ;) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: -: - 9/11 statement shown accurate again
Jan Coffey wrote: Br-n wrote Hi folks! Fun stuff but please remove the Brin: header. Does anyone know if the good doctor is using a filter that scans for his name? If you put Br!n or Br*n or Br1n etc. is it just as bad as Brin? The server has a filter in place that sends only stuff with the string Brin in the subject line to the good doctor. Br!n, Br*n, Br1n, etc. won't go through to him. Not sure if it's case sensitive. Nick would know Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: -: - 9/11 statement shown accurate again
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now Bran and Bruin would be worse than Br!n or Br*n or Br1n I have no idea what breakfast cereal he eats, or NCAA football team he likes. Or, in the second case, which NHL team he likes, but it's probably not Boston's. :) Julia who can remember all the girls in her second grade class having crushes on Bobby Orr ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
The evils of eating vegetables (was Re: L3: World cancer deathrates have increased...)
From: Chad Cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Michael Harney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 2:36 PM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: Re: L3: World cancer death rates have increased... From: Chad Cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Kevin Tarr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 1:32 PM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: Re: L3: World cancer death rates have increased... The cycle continues. Far earlier than expected. Apperantly I can never speek ill of eating meat, not even in regards to health... hell, never speek of food at all as it is always brought back to this discussion which invariably ends in flaming. I would point out the flaw in your logic, but what would be the point? Nobody listens, it just comes back to it again, and the cycle continues. I have already gone rounds with you on this, and really did not want to get into it again (learned my lesson the first or second time). I honestly have NOTHING against Vegetarianism. I, in fact, curbed my normal inclination to fight you on this. What started my rant is the constant bashing of meat as a heathy, beneficial food item. Because it involves the killing of amimals, extremist will attempt to cut down meat scientifically, in order to indirectly provide some support to win an ethical argument. I see a lot of generalizations, and I suppose I respond back with a bunch of generalizations, in defense of meat. Its childish. My real agenda is to stop people from using science as a bludgeon to support an ethical position. The last time vegetarianism was discussed was in September of last year. It was Kevin that brought up the topic, not me. I had done no meat bashing or otherwise. The time before that it was well over 2 years ago IIRC. Please don't go into rant mode over percieved constant meat bashing. If you've got something against other vegetarians who give you a hard time, don't project that onto me. If people have failed to notice, I am very different than I was a half-decade ago. I'm tired of being equated to the neurotic, irrational, immature, and almost sociopathic person I was back then. It's part of the reason I left the list the last three times I did (each of those times saying I probably won't be coming back). I grow very weary of the constant reminder of who I was and lack of acknowledgement of who I am now. Admit that you do feel self-rightous as a vegetarian. I think I would be as well. You most likely benefit from it,as I probably would as well. This does not mean that it is better. It does not mean that an onmivorious diet is better. Science does not have a clear cut answer to this question, nor does it help much in the getting to the ethical truth. Actually, no, I don't feel self-rightous as a vegetarian. In actuallity, I have a self-persecution complex, and no level of personal accomplishment, achievement, etc. is good enough for me. Even as a vegetarian I constantly feel guilty when I am just tempted to eat meat, hell, I feel guilty when I just smelling meat cooking. So, do I feel self-rightous? Hardly, I feel like a failure almost constantly. If you feel threatened from me, it is I am attacking the meme that because I eat meat, I am somewhat inferior, or lacking in common sense, dumb or all of the above. You may be promoting this meme, and that is a question only you can answer. Did I say meat eaters are inferior? No. In fact, I never even said that people shouldn't eat meat in the cancer posts. If anything, my posts on the cancer topic only suggest that one should reduce meat consumption if they are concerned about cancer, and even that would be distorting what I said (all I really said even remotely along those lines is that there is vegetarians are less likely to develop cancer than meat eaters... ask your family doctor if you don't believe me... the doctor will probably agree and caution that vegetarians, unless they are careful about their diet and take the right suppliments, they are more likely to develop anemia, B-12 defficiency, and other conditions. I won't argue with that, it's just a fact). I never stated in those posts that people should stop eating meat. If you genuinely want to discuss this topic, reply to this and say that you have a genuine desire to discuss the topic rationally and intelligently and I will. I don't think it can be done, in the same way science cannot tell us what the best diet is (yet). If you want to discuss the ethical dilemma's this is easier to do, and I am open to this. To start, it does bother me animals ar killed to provide sausage for me in the morning. I still eat meat. Does that make me a bad person? Intelligent and rational: The argument about the way vegetables are produced and the damages done in farming is faulty. The fault lies in the fact that the majority of the nations crops are used to feed
Plonkworthy?
I have been informed today that I have been plonked by one of the listmembers. Which listmember is irrelivant. The listmember informed me that my intollerance was reminiscent of Jeroen. When I recently rejoined the list, I sensed apprehension and fear from some list members at my return. I assumed I was just reading more into the messages than was there, and in all likelyhood the fear and apprehension was my own. Was I wrong? Are there listmembers that are affraid of me here? Do my posts seem intollerant? All opinions welcome, both on-list or off. I will not hold what is said against anyone. If enough people express a desire for me to leave I will do so and never return. The last thing I want is to make people uncomfortable. Michael Harney [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: L3: World cancer death rates have increased...
--- Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jan Coffey wrote: --- Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How do grilled vs. steamed vegetables come out as far as carcinogens go? I know that for many vegetables, raw is better than any cooking method at least in terms of preserving vitamins. I was reading recently somewhere...I am sure someone can provide feedback... that suggested that cooking (even cooking vegetables) reduced carcinogens and increased vitamin absorption. I think it was Scientific American...maybe it was a dream? I don't think it was a dream. There's at least 1 vegetable that ought to be steamed for a little while to increase the amount of a particular vitamin, but I don't remember which one, and I don't remember where I read it. Awfully helpful today, aren't I? :P I think it's spinach; cooking helps break down the cell walls to allow your body to access the vitamins/minerals, IIRC. I do know that cooking tomato increases usable lycopenes, so canned/stewed/sauced tomatoes are good for you. Also, cooking pumpkin increases absorbable Vit A, as some of the carotenoids are apparently harder to extract. Someone already said that grilling vegetables can increase carcinogens (but not as much as meat); I think it's worse for starchy veggies marinated/grilled with fat/oil (acrylamide-type chemical(s) formed). Steaming is probably best, if raw isn't an option. But for many vegetables, you're at least as well off eating them raw, if you can handle it. I can with green beans, but I'd really, really prefer my broccoli to be steamed. Julia who also wants her fruit raw, unless it's in a cobbler, or a pie if there's no pumpkin pie available to eat instead Mmm...pumpkin. Pie, soup, pound cake... eyes glaze over... This Is Making Me Hungry Maru __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The evils of eating vegetables (was Re: L3: Worldcancerdeathrates have increased...)
Michael Harney wrote: Did I say meat eaters are inferior? No. In fact, I never even said that people shouldn't eat meat in the cancer posts. If anything, my posts on the cancer topic only suggest that one should reduce meat consumption if they are concerned about cancer, and even that would be distorting what I said (all I really said even remotely along those lines is that there is vegetarians are less likely to develop cancer than meat eaters... ask your family doctor if you don't believe me... the doctor will probably agree and caution that vegetarians, unless they are careful about their diet and take the right suppliments, they are more likely to develop anemia, B-12 defficiency, and other conditions. I won't argue with that, it's just a fact). I never stated in those posts that people should stop eating meat. I've known various people who either became vegetarian for awhile, or just cut down on their meat consumption, and have felt better as a result. My sister will eat fish seafood at any time, but she reserves the eating of land vertebrates to once a month -- and as a result, she's very particular as to just what she eats, and under what circumstances, and derives a lot more pleasure per meat meal than most omnivores. After she cut down on her meat consumption, she started feeling better in general, so having seen that, my mother cut down on hers, and has felt some better, as well. Heck, I was a vegetarian for a few years. There were 2 factors involved in my decision to stop eating meat: 1) Peer pressure -- the other weirdest girl in my class was one; 2) sick of the meats I was most often served. I got tired of pretty much everything my mother did with beef, so I stopped eating beef, and then after a few weeks of that, I got tired of her chicken, as well. Then I got tested for allergies, and it turned out that I was allergic to enough things that if I were to avoid all my food allergies, it was going to be *very* difficult to maintain a vegetarian diet, especially eating at the college cafeteria. (Mostly I avoid the nastier ones these days; I eat some of the things I tested positive for on a regular basis, and as long as I don't overdo it, and eat more-processed forms of the ones I *do* eat, I'm OK.) And now I eat barbecue on a regular basis, mostly brisket. Mm Julia who's mostly been wanting chicken, steak and cheese lately, as far as non-plant foods go ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Plonkworthy?
Michael Harney wrote: I have been informed today that I have been plonked by one of the listmembers. Which listmember is irrelivant. The listmember informed me that my intollerance was reminiscent of Jeroen. When I recently rejoined the list, I sensed apprehension and fear from some list members at my return. I assumed I was just reading more into the messages than was there, and in all likelyhood the fear and apprehension was my own. Was I wrong? Are there listmembers that are affraid of me here? Do my posts seem intollerant? All opinions welcome, both on-list or off. I will not hold what is said against anyone. If enough people express a desire for me to leave I will do so and never return. The last thing I want is to make people uncomfortable. If anyone has enough of a problem with you to plonk you, they've solved whatever problem they have with you. Me, I think it's not necessarily a bad thing for someone to make me uncomfortable if by their posts they challenge my beliefs. Either they'll cause me to reexamine things and my position will shift, or I'll reexamine things and decide that where I am is where I want to be. And the biggest argument I've seen you in, it looked to me like someone was projecting something onto it that wasn't actually there in the text, and *that* is more intolerant in its own way than anything I've read from you recently. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Plonkworthy?
At 10:00 PM 6/6/2003 -0600, you wrote: I have been informed today that I have been plonked by one of the listmembers. Which listmember is irrelivant. The listmember informed me that my intollerance was reminiscent of Jeroen. When I recently rejoined the list, I sensed apprehension and fear from some list members at my return. I assumed I was just reading more into the messages than was there, and in all likelyhood the fear and apprehension was my own. Was I wrong? Are there listmembers that are affraid of me here? Do my posts seem intollerant? All opinions welcome, both on-list or off. I will not hold what is said against anyone. If enough people express a desire for me to leave I will do so and never return. The last thing I want is to make people uncomfortable. Michael Harney [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wait, wait. I know it wasn't me who plonked you, and of course you know it wasn't me either. Look, seriously this is what happened and I'm not saying this as an excuse: I had 40 minutes between getting home from one job and leaving for my second. So I throw something in the microwave (broccoli, honest!) and skim some posts while eating. I'm bouncing between threads and for the cancer thread it seemed to be Julie (kidding!), Michael, Andrew, and Michael again. My mind rolled those together and I (me, myself, all the voices in my head) thought you were lumping all the bad things that could happen to meat while it was on the hoof and the troubles that lead from that. My mind latched on it and thought of all the bad things that have been said about vegetables. So I typed out my post and sent it. Then I shut off the monitor, cleaned up, changed, and went out to drive my convertible to work on the one sunny day we are allowed a week. The car wouldn't start and I didn't have enough time to jump start it. So. I get home and find I mis-read your post to Julie (can't resist!). You were saying...forgetting all of the other stuff, no matter what cooked meat will have more cancer causing agents than vegetables. And I've been sitting here for a few hours, doing other things admittedly, wondering in the back of my mind Does it matter? Oh heck, I was going to post more but the answer is it doesn't matter. I don't want you to go anywhere. I wasn't trying to say bad things. I read something and responded. I'm sorry if you think I've caused you some harm. Wait! I don't want that to sound bad.just from now on, you can say whatever you like, about eating meat, and I won't respond. Now if you'd say, Red Sox's rule, Yankee's drool, then I'll have to jump on you with both feet. Kevin Tarr Julie and Eric sitting in a tree... ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Plonkworthy?
In a message dated 6/6/2003 10:09:48 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Now if you'd say, Red Sox's rule, Yankee's drool, then I'll have to jump on you with both feet. Kevin Tarr The correct reponse to any baseball reference would certainly not be Put a cork in it! Can't have too much Tarr on the bat, either. William Taylor - The worst would to be said to be planckworthy. Nobody should be sent down a black hole. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: L3: World cancer death rates have increased...
From: Deborah Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] There is also the possibility that these growth hormones might stimulate already primed cells to transform from pre-cancerous into full-blown malignancy. Which is why I drink organic milk also (no growth hormone, no pesticides in the feed, sick cows needing antibiotics taken off the production line). Even so cow's milk _still_ contains 59 hormones from the cow. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
