Re: [CTRL] MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich'
-Caveat Lector- 1% and 10% are not the same. Look govt costs money. To me it seems those who have the most (myself included), those who benefit the most, from our society, those who can best shoulder the burden of keeping our society running, should pay the lion's share. We all want good schools, good roads, etcetc. This costs If joe paying the same dollar amount, starves his children in order to pay, that's a problem. Clearly. If Steve can pay more, with less effect on his life, doesn¹t it make sense he should? It does to me. on 01/13/03 2:04 PM, M.A. Johnson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: MJ The Government is requiring them to pay the same -- income has no bearing. What does equity in taxation have to do with income? Wealth? Thew's Tax Charity would aid Joe in meeting his fair share of taxes (which would necessarily be low -- approaching zero ... while an abundance of wealth would necessarily exist -- making those in Joe's situation necessarily few). -- --- - Well, I've wrestled with reality for 35 years, doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it Elwood P Dowd NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich'
-Caveat Lector- MJ If Joe and Steve pay $1 in taxes, their burden is EQUAL. The Government REQUIRING Joe and Steve pay $1 in taxes is EQUITABLE. If Joe pays $1 and Steve pays $2, their burden is UNequal. The Government REQUIRING Joe to pay $1 and Steve pay $2 in taxes is INequitable. goldi Taking your example above, if Joe earns 1 thousand dollars a year and Steve earns 1 million dollars a year, yet both are required to pay $1 in taxes, how do you find that to be equitable? MJ The Government is requiring them to pay the same -- income has no bearing. What does equity in taxation have to do with income? Wealth? Joe and Steve go to Goldi's Diner for a piece of pie. Should Steve pay MORE for the pie than Joe? Should Joe pay MORE than Steve? goldi Also, how do you propose it should be handled if Joe doesn't have the $1 to pay? I'm curious... MJ What happens NOW? Thew's Tax Charity would aid Joe in meeting his fair share of taxes (which would necessarily be low -- approaching zero ... while an abundance of wealth would necessarily exist -- making those in Joe's situation necessarily few). Regard$, --MJ Probably not many realize how the rapid centralization of government in America has fostered a kind of organized pauperism. The big industrial states contribute most of the Federal revenues and the bureaucracy distributes it in the pauper states wherever it will do the most good in a political way. The same thing takes place within the states themselves. In fostering pauperism it also by necessary consequence fosters corruption. ... All this is due to the iniquitous theory of taxation with which this country has been so thoroughly indoctrinated -- that a man should be taxed according to his ability to pay, instead of according to the value of the privileges he obtains from government. -- Albert Jay Nock A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich'
-Caveat Lector- As always innumeracy reigns on 01/11/03 1:29 AM, M.A. Johnson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Caveat Lector- \ I made no claim that equitable was synonymous with equal. And yet every time I take about equitable treatment, you respond with equal treatment. Thew We were discussing behaviors of the state - and its responsibility. MJ A LEGITIMATE State is a collective application of the individual's right to his own life. Any other 'State' merely provides advantage to some at the expense of others. I am not certain what 'responsibilities' you imagine apply, but A state is there to provide service to the individuals who are members of the state. These services cost money. Thew It is not JUST or FAIR (equitable) that a greater burden is placed on those who can least shoulder it, while those who can best do so, use their resources to ensure they do not have to, while the same resources could be used more EQUITABLY, especially in the name of some fictional SAMENESS (equality), that is really just a cover for lack of compassion for the other, or the society they are riding atop. MJ Nonsense. That is a viewpoint, not a fact. I don't expect you to agree with my viewpoint, in fact, that¹s what I said the problem was. I have no problem with YOU voluntarily providing YOUR resources to those YOU deem in need. I do, however, have a problem with YOU *FORCING* me to provide MY resources to those YOU deem in need. Again - if a state is to exist, I can only see it existing to serve its members. This costs money. Ina state of and by the people, the only place for that money to come is from the people who make up the state. This applies to defense spending, as well as health care, schools, passable roads, basic infrastructure, etc. Of course you need your bifurcation in order to hide your lust for enslavement and theft. Bifurcation? Where? I'm saying it right out. I would prefer there was no need for a state at all, but unfortunately there are both dangerous assholes who need to be held in check, and others who suffer who need to be helped. These are things a state should do. It has to be paid for somehow. What is not JUST or FAIR (equitable) is that a greater burden is placed on some, while others are exempted. ALL individuals should be treated EQUAL(ly) by Government. This is the ONLY method that is EQUITABLE. After all one is supposed to have EQUALITY under the law. Thew Compassion for others is one of the few legitimate uses of government I can imagine. MJ Stealing from some citizens is not compassion. Unfortunately those who can afford to give without coercion seem to be those least likely to. I don't know why. Thew We can do better that coldhearted slavery to the bottom line - as a nation, as individuals, and as humanity. MJ Continuing with your bifurcation ... Again - where? I state my belief - nothing hidden. Thew Equal is not equitable. eq·ui·ta·ble Marked by or having equity; just and impartial. e·qual Having the same quantity, measure, or value as another. Not the same thing at all. As you even stated earlier in your post - which is it, are they the same or different? The former deal with just which has nothing to do with quantity, it is an abstract concept. The latter is a concrete term relating to mathematical amounts. Not the same thing at all. MJ If Joe and Steve pay $1 in taxes, their burden is EQUAL. The Government REQUIRING Joe and Steve pay $1 in taxes is EQUITABLE. If Joe pays $1 and Steve pays $2, their burden is UNequal. The Government REQUIRING Joe to pay $1 and Steve pay $2 in taxes is INequitable. Here is the innumeracy - always a good bet with the ignorant. If Joe earns $10 a year, and steve earns $100 a year, then in your 1st example joe is paying 10% of his income, while Steve is paying 1% of his income, and thus their burden is UNequal. As to equitable - it is about justice and what you consider important, not strictly about number crunching (reread your own definitions above) EQUITABLE is a judgment call. To me it seems that if Joe earns $10 a month and needs $8 to feed his children while steve earns $100 and needs $8 to feed his children there is NOTHING EQUITABLE about taking the EQUAL amount from each of them. Again- in summery. Government's sole purpose is service to the members of the society it governs. In the world as it stands today service costs money. The only place for a government of and by the people to get money is from the people. Not all people can afford the same amount of payment, as their situations and needs differ. Those who benefit most from a society, have the greatest responsibility to the society they are benefiting from. They have the greatest ability to provide for their society as a whole with suffering because of it. It would be most JUST (equitable) for those that
Re: [CTRL] MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich'
-Caveat Lector- MJ 'Need' -- real or imaginary -- has NOTHING to do with equity. Thew The sad thing is that you don't see that as the problem. MJ That a WORD means what it states and not something else? Regard$, --MJ To COMPEL a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. --Thomas Jefferson A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich'
-Caveat Lector- We were not discussing the WORD equitable, until I had to explain to you carefully that the word was not synonymous with Equal. (that's why we have 2 different words.) We were discussing behaviors of the state - and its responsibility. It is not JUST or FAIR (equitable) that a greater burden is placed on those who can least shoulder it, while those who can best do so, use their resources to ensure they do not have to, while the same resources could be used more EQUITABLY, especially in the name of some fictional SAMENESS (equality), that is really just a cover for lack of compassion for the other, or the society they are riding atop. Compassion for others is one of the few legitimate uses of government I can imagine. We can do better that coldhearted slavery to the bottom line - as a nation, as individuals, and as humanity. Equal is not equitable. on 01/10/03 8:27 PM, M.A. Johnson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: MJ 'Need' -- real or imaginary -- has NOTHING to do with equity. Thew The sad thing is that you don't see that as the problem. MJ That a WORD means what it states and not something else? -- -- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - - - - -- --- -- - - - - -- - - - -- -- - -- - I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country corporations have been enthroned, an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working on the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before, even in the midst of war. Abraham Lincoln NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich'
-Caveat Lector- MJ 'Need' -- real or imaginary -- has NOTHING to do with equity. Thew The sad thing is that you don't see that as the problem. MJ That a WORD means what it states and not something else? Thew We were not discussing the WORD equitable, until I had to explain to you carefully that the word was not synonymous with Equal. (that's why we have 2 different words.) MJ I made no claim that equitable was synonymous with equal. Thew We were discussing behaviors of the state - and its responsibility. MJ A LEGITIMATE State is a collective application of the individual's right to his own life. Any other 'State' merely provides advantage to some at the expense of others. I am not certain what 'responsibilities' you imagine apply, but Thew It is not JUST or FAIR (equitable) that a greater burden is placed on those who can least shoulder it, while those who can best do so, use their resources to ensure they do not have to, while the same resources could be used more EQUITABLY, especially in the name of some fictional SAMENESS (equality), that is really just a cover for lack of compassion for the other, or the society they are riding atop. MJ Nonsense. I have no problem with YOU voluntarily providing YOUR resources to those YOU deem in need. I do, however, have a problem with YOU *FORCING* me to provide MY resources to those YOU deem in need. Of course you need your bifurcation in order to hide your lust for enslavement and theft. What is not JUST or FAIR (equitable) is that a greater burden is placed on some, while others are exempted. ALL individuals should be treated EQUAL(ly) by Government. This is the ONLY method that is EQUITABLE. After all one is supposed to have EQUALITY under the law. Thew Compassion for others is one of the few legitimate uses of government I can imagine. MJ Stealing from some citizens is not compassion. Thew We can do better that coldhearted slavery to the bottom line - as a nation, as individuals, and as humanity. MJ Continuing with your bifurcation ... Thew Equal is not equitable. eq·ui·ta·ble Marked by or having equity; just and impartial. e·qual Having the same quantity, measure, or value as another. MJ If Joe and Steve pay $1 in taxes, their burden is EQUAL. The Government REQUIRING Joe and Steve pay $1 in taxes is EQUITABLE. If Joe pays $1 and Steve pays $2, their burden is UNequal. The Government REQUIRING Joe to pay $1 and Steve pay $2 in taxes is INequitable. Regard$, --MJ When a private enterprise fails, it is closed down. When a government enterprise fails, it is expanded. -- Milton Friedman A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich' (fwd)
-Caveat Lector- This tax plan will help the rich is the propaganda bs that the Democratic Party has put out for years and plays on peoples dislike for wealthy people. While I have no great love for them myself, I am not so stupid as to believe that the working man would have a job if the companies did not make a profet. They have to make one to say in business. And if they stay in business they will have jobs for people. Some at good pay some of the pay is not so good but it is better to have a job at low pay than no job at all. Of course any tax plan will help the so-called rich more than the person who lives on a $15,000 or $20,000 or less because they don't make as much money. I don't like George Bush because I believe him to be a traitor or worse. But the fact of the matter is the flight of business out of the country has put millions out of work and many of them are still out of work. Some of the business fled because they wanted to stay in business others wanted out because of their corporate greed, not the compeny itslef but the people running the company, who were and are the greedy SOBs. Nevertheless someone has to pay the people to work and as a result that person has to have more money than the person doing the work. William Bacon wrote: -Caveat Lector- I pledge Allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands, one Nation under God,indivisible,with liberty and justice for all. visit my web site at http://www.voicenet.com/~wbacon My ICQ# is 79071904 for a precise list of the powers of the Federal Government linkto: http://www.voicenet.com/~wbacon/Enumerated.html -- Forwarded message -- Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 02:30:15 -0700 From: Media Research Center [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich' ***Media Research Center CyberAlert*** 6:25am EST, Tuesday January 7, 2003 (Vol. Eight; No. 3) The 1,410th CyberAlert. Tracking Liberal Media Bias Since 1996 Bush's Tax Plan Gives the Most to the Rich; ABC Finds Millionaire Against Tax Cuts for the Rich; Another Anti-Bush Harangue from Helen Thomas; NBC Reveals Saudi Terrorist Wanted to Donate to Bush, But...; CBS's Enron Movie Spikes References to Clinton Distributed to more than 11,600 recipients by the Media Research Center, bringing political balance to the news media since 1987. The MRC is the leader in documenting, exposing and neutralizing liberal media bias. Visit the MRC on the Web: http://www.mediaresearch.org. CyberAlerts from this year are at: http://www.mediaresearch.org/archive/cyber/welcome.asp For 2002: http://www.mediaresearch.org/archive/cyber/archive02.asp Subscribe/unsubscribe information, as well as a link to the MRC donations page, are at the end of this message. When posted, this CyberAlert will be readable at: http://www.mediaresearch.org/cyberalerts/2003/cyb20030107.asp 1) The broadcast networks on Monday night, especially CBS, pushed the liberal spin that the Bush tax cut proposals will unfairly benefit the rich. Assuming all money belongs to the government, CBS's John Roberts insisted the President's plan would give the most to the rich. CBS's Byron Pitts highlighted how a middle class wife saw Bush's plan as little more than a feel-good gift that won't give much to most Americans -- especially the middle class. ABC's Peter Jennings conveyed how Democrats say that it grossly favors the wealthy. 2) ABC decided on Monday morning to showcase a family which welcomes the Bush tax cut plan, but which worries about how it'll cost in the long run, and how other critics of the President's plan say it favors the rich. On Good Morning America, Mellody Hobson even found opposition from a millionaire: A person with a million-dollar income will get an estimated $24,000 in savings. Even wealthy investors like Bill Bartholomay, chairman of the Atlanta Braves, are uneasy. 3) Another left-wing harangue from Hearst Newspapers columnist Helen Thomas at the White House press briefing. On Monday, Thomas demanded to know why Bush wants to drop bombs on innocent Iraqis? She whined about how the Iraqis are not attacking the U.S. and wondered if this is your revenge? Eleven years of revenge? She also sputtered about how many countries don't have, people don't have the decision on U.S. policy, adding in disgust: Including us. 4) A Saudi terrorist wanted to donate to the Bush presidential campaign, NBC News correspondent Lisa Myers reported Monday night but, in a change from the Clinton era, Myers learned that a Republican fundraiser said no because it's illegal to take contributions from foreigners. 5) Update: The author on whose book CBS based its movie about Enron revealed that the movie's producers removed references to the Clinton administration. Brian
Re: [CTRL] MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich'
-Caveat Lector- Willie - yes any tax reduction plan will obviously benefit the person who earns more than one who earns less. The point is to try to make a plan that at least attempts to help those who need it most, rather than one that barely helps the worst off, and hugely benefits the top. The republicans keep saying that the dividend thang is fair because 50% of Americans own stocks. That is really only a partial statistic. For the person who owns 1 shares of Pepsi this is a great break. For the person who owns one share of Pepsi it does not help then at all. If you crunch the numbers over 90% of the benefit of this goes to under 10% of the population - the ten percent that least needs the help. on 01/08/03 3:17 AM, Willie Martin at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Caveat Lector- This tax plan will help the rich is the propaganda bs that the Democratic Party has put out for years and plays on peoples dislike for wealthy people. While I have no great love for them myself, I am not so stupid as to believe that the working man would have a job if the companies did not make a profet. They have to make one to say in business. And if they stay in business they will have jobs for people. Some at good pay some of the pay is not so good but it is better to have a job at low pay than no job at all. Of course any tax plan will help the so-called rich more than the person who lives on a $15,000 or $20,000 or less because they don't make as much money. I don't like George Bush because I believe him to be a traitor or worse. But the fact of the matter is the flight of business out of the country has put millions out of work and many of them are still out of work. Some of the business fled because they wanted to stay in business others wanted out because of their corporate greed, not the compeny itslef but the people running the company, who were and are the greedy SOBs. Nevertheless someone has to pay the people to work and as a result that person has to have more money than the person doing the work. -- - --- -- --- -- Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is a force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action. George Washington NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich'
-Caveat Lector- Thew Willie - yes any tax reduction plan will obviously benefit the person who earns more than one who earns less. The point is to try to make a plan that at least attempts to help those who need it most, rather than one that barely helps the worst off, and hugely benefits the top. MJ Why? Why not treat ALL Citizens EQUALLY? Why should one individual pay MORE or LESS than another? Thew The republicans keep saying that the dividend thang is fair because 50% of Americans own stocks. That is really only a partial statistic. For the person who owns 1 shares of Pepsi this is a great break. For the person who owns one share of Pepsi it does not help then at all. If you crunch the numbers over 90% of the benefit of this goes to under 10% of the population - the ten percent that least needs the help. MJ sigh Many Americans -- perhaps MORE than 50% -- have retirement instruments that fall under this DOUBLE TAXATION stock problem. Regard$, --MJ I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means -- except by getting off his back. -- Leo Tolstoy A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich'
-Caveat Lector- on 01/08/03 10:27 AM, M.A. Johnson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thew Willie - yes any tax reduction plan will obviously benefit the person who earns more than one who earns less. The point is to try to make a plan that at least attempts to help those who need it most, rather than one that barely helps the worst off, and hugely benefits the top. MJ Why? Why not treat ALL Citizens EQUALLY? Why should one individual pay MORE or LESS than another? Because EQUAL is not the same as EQUITABLE. A family that struggles to feed and clothe its children has more need for tax relief than someone with 3 billion dollars in the bank. Because a person with 3 billion dollars can afford to support the country s/he is living in to a greater extent and not suffer, than the person who has to choose between chicken for dinner or shoes for their children. Thew The republicans keep saying that the dividend thang is fair because 50% of Americans own stocks. That is really only a partial statistic. For the person who owns 1 shares of Pepsi this is a great break. For the person who owns one share of Pepsi it does not help then at all. If you crunch the numbers over 90% of the benefit of this goes to under 10% of the population - the ten percent that least needs the help. MJ sigh Many Americans -- perhaps MORE than 50% -- have retirement instruments that fall under this DOUBLE TAXATION stock problem. Yes. Most of them are affected to the tune of a few cents over a year. The bulk of the benefit is not to them. Free your mind and your ass will follow. St George NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich'
-Caveat Lector- Our tax code is based on "From each according to his ability." When it comes tax reductions, some seem to be saying "to each according to his need." When you combine the two, "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." you have a very familiar phrase. Now where have I heard that before? Oh yes, it is in the Communist Manifesto. JR - Original Message - From: M.A. Johnson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 10:27 AM Subject: Re: [CTRL] MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich' -Caveat Lector-Thew Willie - yes any tax reduction plan will obviously benefit the person who earns more than one who earns less. The point is to try to make a plan that at least attempts to help those who need it most, rather than one that barely helps the worst off, and hugely benefits the top.MJWhy?Why not treat ALL Citizens EQUALLY?Why should one individual pay MORE or LESS than another?Thew The republicans keep saying that the dividend thang is fair because 50% of Americans own stocks. That is really only a partial statistic. For the person who owns 1 shares of Pepsi this is a great break. For the person who owns one share of Pepsi it does not help then at all. If you crunch the numbers over 90% of the benefit of this goes to under 10% of the population - the ten percent that least needs the help.MJsighMany Americans -- perhaps MORE than 50% -- have retirementinstruments that fall under this DOUBLE TAXATION stock problem.Regard$,--MJI sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, andyet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wishto ease his lot by all possible means -- except by getting off hisback. -- Leo TolstoyA HREF="'http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.orghttp://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/ADECLARATION DISCLAIMER==CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandicscreeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please! These aresordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, mis-directions and outright frauds-is used politically by different groups withmajor and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, andalways suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives nocredence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.Archives Available at:http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.htmlA HREF="'http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives'>http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of[EMAIL PROTECTED]/Ahttp:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/A HREF="'http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrlhttp:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/ATo subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]Om A HREF=""www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=""Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=""ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich'
Title: Re: [CTRL] MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich' -Caveat Lector- Just because Marx wrote it doesnt mean it doesnt make sense. Thinking society can be more equitable does not make one a communist. on 01/08/03 11:12 AM, Jim Rarey at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Caveat Lector- Our tax code is based on From each according to his ability. When it comes tax reductions, some seem to be saying to each according to his need. When you combine the two, From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. you have a very familiar phrase. Now where have I heard that before? Oh yes, it is in the Communist Manifesto. JR - Original Message - From: M.A. Johnson mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 10:27 AM Subject: Re: [CTRL] MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich' -Caveat Lector- Thew Willie - yes any tax reduction plan will obviously benefit the person who earns more than one who earns less. The point is to try to make a plan that at least attempts to help those who need it most, rather than one that barely helps the worst off, and hugely benefits the top. MJ Why? Why not treat ALL Citizens EQUALLY? Why should one individual pay MORE or LESS than another? Thew The republicans keep saying that the dividend thang is fair because 50% of Americans own stocks. That is really only a partial statistic. For the person who owns 1 shares of Pepsi this is a great break. For the person who owns one share of Pepsi it does not help then at all. If you crunch the numbers over 90% of the benefit of this goes to under 10% of the population - the ten percent that least needs the help. MJ sigh Many Americans -- perhaps MORE than 50% -- have retirement instruments that fall under this DOUBLE TAXATION stock problem. Regard$, --MJ I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means -- except by getting off his back. -- Leo Tolstoy A HREF="" http://www.ctrl.org/ http://www.ctrl.org/www.ctrl.org/A http://www.ctrl.org/ DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds-is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="" http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html of mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="" http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ctrl/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om A HREF="" DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="" of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="" To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om -- -- -- -- -- Planet spins - so do I neo-sufi wisdom NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew A HREF=""www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informa
Re: [CTRL] MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich'
-Caveat Lector- Jim Our tax code is based on From each according to his ability. when it comes tax reductions, some seem to be saying to each according to his need. When you unmask it, ... you see that taxation is highwaymanry [highway robbery] made respectable by custom, thievery made moral by law; there isn't a decent thing to be said for it, as to origin, principle or its effects on the social order. Man's adjustment to this iniquity has permitted its force to gain momentum like an unopposed crime wave, and the resulting social devastation is what the socialists have long predicted and prayed for ... In principle this income tax, as the founders of the Constitution realized, is more vicious than any other, for it is a direct attack on the sanctity of private property. ... If you follow through on the principle involved, you come to the conclusion that the individual's right to property is a temporary and revocable stewardship. The Jeffersonian ideal of inalienable rights is liquidated, and substituted for it is the Marxist concept of state supremacy. -- Frank Chodorov A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich'
-Caveat Lector- Thew Willie - yes any tax reduction plan will obviously benefit the person who earns more than one who earns less. The point is to try to make a plan that at least attempts to help those who need it most, rather than one that barely helps the worst off, and hugely benefits the top. MJ Why? Why not treat ALL Citizens EQUALLY? Why should one individual pay MORE or LESS than another? Thew Because EQUAL is not the same as EQUITABLE. MJ Hmmm ... eq·ui·ty The state, quality, or ideal of being just, impartial, and fair. Something that is just, impartial, and fair. eq·ui·ta·ble Marked by or having equity; just and impartial. One is HAVING the other. Oh well. Thew A family that struggles to feed and clothe its children has more need for tax relief than someone with 3 billion dollars in the bank. Because a person with 3 billion dollars can afford to support the country s/he is living in to a greater extent and not suffer, than the person who has to choose between chicken for dinner or shoes for their children. MJ This has NOTHING to do with equity, equitable or equal. Why do you believe the Person with 3 billion dollars should be FORCED to take responsibility for the 'family' that chose to have children it could not afford? Perhaps the TAX BURDEN is simply to great. My questions remains unaddressed: Why not treat ALL Citizens EQUALLY? Why should one individual pay MORE or LESS than another? Regard$, --MJ Probably not many realize how the rapid centralization of government in America has fostered a kind of organized pauperism. The big industrial states contribute most of the Federal revenues and the bureaucracy distributes it in the pauper states wherever it will do the most good in a political way. The same thing takes place within the states themselves. In fostering pauperism it also by necessary consequence fosters corruption. ... All this is due to the iniquitous theory of taxation with which this country has been so thoroughly indoctrinated -- that a man should be taxed according to his ability to pay, instead of according to the value of the privileges he obtains from government. -- Albert Jay Nock A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich'
-Caveat Lector- Thew Thinking society can be more equitable does not make one a communist. MJ There is NOTHING 'equitable' about treating people differently. Regard$, --MJ From the fact that people are very different it follows that, if we treat them equally, the result must be inequality in their actual position, and that the only way to place them in an equal position would be to treat them differently. Equality before the law and material equality are therefore not only different but are in conflict which each other; and we can achieve either one or the other, but not both at the same time. -- F.A. Hayek A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich'
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 1/8/03 8:00:07 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Because EQUAL is not the same as EQUITABLE. Amen A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich'
-Caveat Lector- (B (BThe words you missed were EQUAL and EQUALITY (One is having the other) (B (BWe were comparing EQUAL with EQUITABLE, not EQUITY with EQUITABILITY (B (Bhere: (B (BSYLLABICATION: (Be $B! (Jqual (BPRONUNCIATION: (B?kw?l (BADJECTIVE: (B1. Having the same quantity, measure, or value as another. 2. Mathematics (BBeing the same or identical to in value. (B (BI repeat EQUAL , i.e. same in quantity, is not the same as EQUITABLE, i.e., (Bbeing just or fair. (B (B (BHmmm indeed. (B (B (B (B (Bon 01/08/03 11:21 AM, M.A. Johnson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (B (B (B eq $B! (Jui $B! (Jty (B The state, quality, or ideal of being just, impartial, and fair. (B Something that is just, impartial, and fair. (B (B eq $B! (Jui $B! (Jta $B! (Jble (B Marked by or having equity; just and impartial. (B (B One is HAVING the other. Oh well. (B (B-- -- -- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - - - - -- --- -- - - - - -- - - - (B-- -- - -- - (BWe must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. We must remember always that (Baccusation is not proof and that conviction depends upon evidence and due (Bprocess of law. (B (B (BEdward R. Murrow (B (B (B (B (B (B (BNEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew (B (BA HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A (BDECLARATION DISCLAIMER (B== (BCTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic (Bscreeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are (Bsordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- (Bdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with (Bmajor and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. (BThat being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and (Balways suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no (Bcredence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. (B (BLet us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. (B (BArchives Available at: (Bhttp://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html (B A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of ([EMAIL PROTECTED]/A (B (Bhttp:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ (B A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A (B (BTo subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: (BSUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] (B (BTo UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: (BSIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] (B (BOm
Re: [CTRL] MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich'
-Caveat Lector- You mean all people in all situations have the same needs at the same times? What a load of crock. And by crock , I mean rank horseshit. All people do not need the same thing, so there is nothing EQUITABLE about treating everybody in the exact same manner. on 01/08/03 11:28 AM, M.A. Johnson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Caveat Lector- Thew Thinking society can be more equitable does not make one a communist. MJ There is NOTHING 'equitable' about treating people differently. Regard$, --MJ From the fact that people are very different it follows that, if we treat them equally, the result must be inequality in their actual position, and that the only way to place them in an equal position would be to treat them differently. Equality before the law and material equality are therefore not only different but are in conflict which each other; and we can achieve either one or the other, but not both at the same time. -- F.A. Hayek A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance?not soap-boxing?please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'?with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds?is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om -- -- -- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - - - - -- --- -- - - - - -- - - - -- -- - -- - What do you mean ³we², white man? Tonto NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich'
-Caveat Lector- (B (BThe words you missed were EQUAL and EQUALITY (One is having the other) (B (BWe were comparing EQUAL with EQUITABLE, not EQUITY with EQUITABILITY (B (Bhere: (B (BSYLLABICATION: (Be $B! (Jqual (BPRONUNCIATION: (B (B (BADJECTIVE: (B1. Having the same quantity, measure, or value as another. 2. Mathematics (BBeing the same or identical to in value. (B (BI repeat EQUAL , i.e. same in quantity, is not the same as EQUITABLE, i.e., (Bbeing just or fair. (B (B (BHmmm indeed. (B (B (B (B (Bon 01/08/03 11:21 AM, M.A. Johnson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (B (B (B eq $B! (Jui $B! (Jty (B The state, quality, or ideal of being just, impartial, and fair. (B Something that is just, impartial, and fair. (B (B eq $B! (Jui $B! (Jta $B! (Jble (B Marked by or having equity; just and impartial. (B (B One is HAVING the other. Oh well. (B (B-- -- -- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - - - - -- --- -- - - - - -- - - - (B-- -- - -- - (BWe must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. We must remember always that (Baccusation is not proof and that conviction depends upon evidence and due (Bprocess of law. (B (B (BEdward R. Murrow (B (B (B (B (B (B (BNEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew (B (BA HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A (BDECLARATION DISCLAIMER (B== (BCTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic (Bscreeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are (Bsordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- (Bdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with (Bmajor and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. (BThat being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and (Balways suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no (Bcredence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. (B (BLet us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. (B (BArchives Available at: (Bhttp://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html (B A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of ([EMAIL PROTECTED]/A (B (Bhttp:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ (B A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A (B (BTo subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: (BSUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] (B (BTo UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: (BSIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] (B (BOm
Re: [CTRL] MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich'
Title: Re: [CTRL] MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich' -Caveat Lector- The words you missed were EQUAL and EQUALITY (One is having the other) We were comparing EQUAL with EQUITABLE, not EQUITY with EQUITABILITY here: ADJECTIVE: 1. Having the same quantity, measure, or value as another. 2. Mathematics Being the same or identical to in value. I repeat EQUAL , i.e. same in quantity, is not the same as EQUITABLE, i.e., being just or fair. Hmmm indeed. on 01/08/03 11:21 AM, M.A. Johnson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: eq$B!&(Jui$B!&(Jty The state, quality, or ideal of being just, impartial, and fair. Something that is just, impartial, and fair. eq$B!&(Jui$B!&(Jta$B!&(Jble Marked by or having equity; just and impartial. One is HAVING the other. Oh well. -- -- -- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - - - - -- --- -- - - - - -- - - - -- -- - -- - We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. We must remember always that accusation is not proof and that conviction depends upon evidence and due process of law. Edward R. Murrow NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew A HREF=""www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=""Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=""ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich'
-Caveat Lector- SORRY ABOUT THOSE POSTS _ bad cut and paste I suspect Trying again - We were not comparing EQUITABLE with EQUITY - which are obviously the same. We were comparing Equitable with EQUAL (the related word being equality, not equitability) EQUAL: ADJECTIVE: 1: Having the same quantity, measure, or value as another. 2: MATHEMATICS; Being the same or identical to in value. I repeat EQUAL, i.e.. Same in quantity, is not the same as EQUITABLE, i.e. being just or fair. Hmmm indeed. Oh well. on 01/08/03 11:21 AM, M.A. Johnson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: MJ Why? Why not treat ALL Citizens EQUALLY? Why should one individual pay MORE or LESS than another? Thew Because EQUAL is not the same as EQUITABLE. MJ Hmmm ... eq·ui·ty The state, quality, or ideal of being just, impartial, and fair. Something that is just, impartial, and fair. eq·ui·ta·ble Marked by or having equity; just and impartial. One is HAVING the other. Oh well. -- A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich'
-Caveat Lector- Thew Thinking society can be more equitable does not make one a communist. MJ There is NOTHING 'equitable' about treating people differently. Thew You mean all people in all situations have the same needs at the same times? What a load of crock. And by crock , I mean rank horseshit. All people do not need the same thing, so there is nothing EQUITABLE about treating everybody in the exact same manner. MJ 'Need' -- real or imaginary -- has NOTHING to do with equity. Regard$, --MJ From the fact that people are very different it follows that, if we treat them equally, the result must be inequality in their actual position, and that the only way to place them in an equal position would be to treat them differently. Equality before the law and material equality are therefore not only different but are in conflict which each other; and we can achieve either one or the other, but not both at the same time. -- F.A. Hayek A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] MRC Alert: Bush's Tax Plan 'Gives the Most to the Rich'
-Caveat Lector- The sad thing is that you don't see that as the problem. on 01/08/03 3:46 PM, M.A. Johnson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: MJ 'Need' -- real or imaginary -- has NOTHING to do with equity. -- - --- -- --- -- Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is a force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action. George Washington NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
