Re: time_t transitions in testing
mick.crane wrote: ... > Eeeek "725 packages can be upgraded. Run 'apt list --upgradable' to see > them" that was about where i was at as i'd been holding firefox from unstable due to it wanting to remove a lot of Mate packages without replacing them. however last night, like you, i first updated to the newest kernel and headers and then picked groups of packages that worked to do it in smaller chunks. so i finally ended up with Mate packages that were being replaced but not leaving me without a working desktop. the other reason for holding off so long was that i didn't have enough of a block of time just in case something went wrong, but last night i did. i needed to download nearly 1G of packages and my line isnt super fast so that took some time just waiting for chunks to come down the pipe. > It seemed to be that "apt upgrade" installed a few of them, there was a > message something wouldn't be installed because there were no headers so > after getting the linux-headers for the kernel and rebooting apt > installed the rest. > mick this morning so far all has been well and basically it all is looking as it should. my normal morning routing is to update and upgrade if there is anything waiting, and today is the first time i'm back to "normal" routine in some weeks so it is nice to have a clear update list again. :) songbird
Re: time_t transitions in testing
songbird wrote: ... > thanks to all in the Debian community who have gotten this > done. all looks ok. :) songbird
time_t transitions in testing
songbird wrote: ... > the on-going time_t transitions may be causing some packages > to be removed for a while as dependencies get adjusted. > > i've currently not been doing full upgrades because there are > many Mate packages that would be removed. i decided to see what i could get upgraded tonight and have done it in layers. mainly i wanted to make sure that anything removed was being replaced and that my desktop would still be usable and that seems to have happened. so far it seems to have gone well but i'm on the last 400 packages (it takes me a bit to download since i'm not on a super-fast connection). with how things have gone so far i don't expect any hiccups. i Debian and testing aka trixie. :) thanks to all in the Debian community who have gotten this done. songbird
Re: recent Trixie upgrade removed nfs client
Gary Dale wrote: > I'm running Trixie on an AMD64 system. > > Yesterday after doing my usual morning full-upgrade, I rebooted because > there were a lot of Plasma-related updates. When I logged in, I found I > wasn't connected to my file server shares. I eventually traced this down > to a lack of nfs software on my workstation. Reinstalling nfs-client > fixed this. > > I guess I need to pay closer attention to what autoremove tells me it's > going to remove, but I'm confused as to why it would remove nfs-client & > related packages. > > This follows a couple of previous full-upgrades that were having > problems. The first, a few days ago, was stopped by gdb not being > available. However, it installed fine manually (apt install gdb). I > don't see why apt full-upgrade didn't do this automatically as a > dependency for whatever package needed it. > > The second was blocked by the lack of a lcl-qt5 or lcl-gtk5 library. I > can see this as legitimate because it looks like you don't need both so > the package manager lets you decide which you want. > > Not looking for a solution. Just reporting a spate of oddities I've > encountered lately. the on-going time_t transitions may be causing some packages to be removed for a while as dependencies get adjusted. i've currently not been doing full upgrades because there are many Mate packages that would be removed. songbird
Re: SOLVED
David Christensen wrote: > I thought about suggesting that in my last post, but did not want to > complicate things. A key advantage of using a CD-R disc is that you can > verify the disc contents and/or checksum against the ISO and/or checksum > now and in the future. This is not true for a USB flash drive, because > the Debian installer modifies the contents of the USB flash drive when > it runs. if it is an iso image copied to the USB stick it should not be modified if you haven't somehow told the installer to install the system to that USB stick (somehow). i guess if you wanted to be really sure you could mount it read-only. songbird
Re: How does the 64bits time_t transition work?
Detlef Vollmann wrote: > Is there a description anywhere how the 64bit time transition works? > I'm currently stuck with a hard to maintain Sid system. > It currently has "871 not upgraded" and it's nearly impossible to > install new packages. > > I've looked e.g. into gnutls (on amd64), and libgnutls30t64 (3.8.3-1.1) > as well as libgnutls30 (3.8.3-1) both install > /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgnutls.so.30.37.1. > Does the new libgnutls.so.30.37.1 provide both ABIs? > >Detlef it's an on-going transition, it may be a few weeks before things settle down. that's what happens with unstable at times. there are the release mailing lists and the debian-devel mailing list which will give you some idea of how things are going. songbird
Re: partition reporting full, but not
Keith Bainbridge wrote: ... > No nfs mounts any swap partition or swap space? but other than that sharing /home with / is likely your issue and you mention snapshots and backintime and i do recall that needing plenty of space. as for btrfs, i have no clue, i've never touched it. songbird
Re: SMART Uncorrectable_Error_Cnt rising - should I be worried?
The Wanderer wrote: > TL;DR: It worked! I'm back up and running, with what appears to be all > my data safely recovered from the failing storage stack! ... i'm glad you got it back up and running and i hope all your data is intact. :) which SSDs did you use? songbird
Re: what keyboard do you use?
hw wrote: ... >> $80 for what i have now was acceptable. > > Which one is that? It must be an unusually sturdy one. Or did you > put a metal plate under it? Corsair K70 CORE RGB Mechanical Gaming Keyboard it is solid but stiff, it is also pretty quiet compared to a model M and has no feel like it either, but i can cope with that. the question is how long will it last? :) i will find out... if i can get three years out of it then i'm ahead of my trend with keyboards. with mice it has been even worse, but that was another thread... [complete aside] texting on a phone is freaking hideous, i don't know how people get things done with those. thank goodness most phones have e-mail to text ways of sending and getting messages. songbird
Re: what keyboard do you use?
hw wrote: > On Mon, 2024-02-05 at 08:46 -0500, songbird wrote: >> hw wrote: >> ... >> > It's a badly missing feature from gnome settings that we can't change >> > the key bindings. The layout must be defined somewhere, though. >> > Maybe someone knows where that is? >> >> in MATE there's keyboard settings you can use to switch >> around keyboards and common keys being swapped. > > Does that work with wayland? i'm using Debian testing, so whatever MATE is at in there in respect to wayland is where i'm at. i haven't intentionally prevented changes from happening, but i'm also not sure wayland is fully supported in MATE in testing right now. i think though that i run X11 still. > With a German keyboard, one of the keys I need to change is ~. > There's also ` when you get to do with databases, and a bunch of > others, like changing comma to dot and more that don't come to mind > atm. > > Have you ever entered ipv4 addresses (and floats) on a German > keyboard? It's insane. i had 3 weeks of German in college about 40 years ago. that's it other than Hogan's Heroes... so, the answer would be no. >> i don't use them now, but did in the past. likely GNOME has >> something similar but i haven't touched that desktop in quite a long >> time. > > Gnome has actually become usable about 2 years ago, though I miss > fvwm, and the lack of configurability with Gnome sucks badly. I'd > like KDE much better, but KDE has always been rather slow and too > buggy. When I tried KDE with wayland it didn't really work at all. > > The only alternative I know of is sway, but I don't get along with > tiling WMs. I like the idea; the problem is that they need to do > floating windows just as well, and they don't do that. > > I had fvwm configured so it would manage the windows for me instead of > having to manage them myself, including tiling, but as long there's > no wayland version of fvwm, we're stuck with KDE and Gnome ... > > Maybe give Gnome another try. It does have its advantages, and it > can't hurt to check it out. good luck. i don't have time or space to try GNOME out again. i went a long torturous route via GNOME, to KDE and back to GNOME for a short while and then disgusted at it went to MATE and have been mostly happy there. it is a consistent interface enough that it doesn't get in my way. that's what i wanted stability and those others kept destroying my efforts (or more accurately my lack of the desire to figure out a new method of doing the same thing without the interface making the wrong assumptions about what i wanted it to do (stay out of the way :) ))... > The additional keys on my 122 key keyboard help with Gnome (and other > things) a great deal. So if you want to get a kind of Model M, get > 122 keys. > > Who still makes 122 key keyboards except Unicomp? no idea. i'm content with 104. i rarely use odd keys. i have to retrain myself to use the number pad because it really is faster for when i'm editing numbers or doing data entry. songbird
Re: what keyboard do you use?
hw wrote: > On Sun, 2024-02-04 at 09:43 -0500, songbird wrote: ... >> if they made them with a metal base mine would probably >> still be working, but the plastic base is too flexible for >> me. i have two dead ones. :( the pressure fitted ribbon >> cable connection is a really bad design and those plastic >> tabs break off. >> >> otherwise the feel is good. very loud when i'm writing... > > IIRC IBM omitted the metal plate long time ago. What are you doing > that it's too wobbly for you? it's not wobbly it is the entire keyboard flexes when you use it in a non-conventional manner. i do not use them on a flat desktop, i have them laying across my lap as a am laying here on my comfy perch (i find sitting uncomfortable and eventually painful so i don't do it any more - instead i sprawl out and have some pillows propping me up a little bit). i didn't really figure this out until it was too late for the second keyboard (a replacement for the first which flaked out right after the warranty period was up). after i got the 2nd keyboard i took the first one apart hoping i could fix it but there were broken plastic tabs and then the pressure ribbon connection so i just left it aside for parts for the new one. the new one also started having issues within about a year and a half. the first keyboard may have been damaged in shipping based upon the broken plastic tabs inside, but i can't say for sure all i know is that it is not built sturdy enough for my use. if i knew that flexing was bad i could have come up with a board or piece of metal to put underneath it to begin with. this is why i'm mentioning it because there may be someone else who sees this topic/thread who's doing something like i am and i don't want them to be out of a keyboard that other- wise may last quite a long time. if i can find a way to get keyboards functional again with- out costing so much (the pressure ribbon connection just is not seeming reliable enough) i'd love to have them working again. youtube vids are not really covering how to do this sort of repair (making that connection reliable again). i won't contact Unicomp again because despite their claims of having goals of great customer service i tried to resolve issues of a bad key and this repeated issue of malfunctioning connections and didn't get any satisfaction. the key problem was noted and should have been covered under the 1yr warranty, but when i brought it up i got static and resistance. three strikes and i'm done with them. i did like the restored keyboard project[*] and read through their website and history to follow it for a few hours but the overall price is just too much ($300-500). $80 for what i have now was acceptable. [*] https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/ songbird
Re: what keyboard do you use?
hw wrote: ... > It's a badly missing feature from gnome settings that we can't change > the key bindings. The layout must be defined somewhere, though. > Maybe someone knows where that is? in MATE there's keyboard settings you can use to switch around keyboards and common keys being swapped. i don't use them now, but did in the past. likely GNOME has something similar but i haven't touched that desktop in quite a long time. songbird
Re: what keyboard do you use?
hw wrote: > On Fri, 2024-02-02 at 20:09 -0600, Nate Bargmann wrote: >> [...] >> I have several of the now classic IBM Model M keyboards I procured in >> the '90s. Modern BIOSes don't like them even with a PS/2 to USB >> adapter so I gave up on them. > > They might work with a so-called active adapter. IIRC it has > something to do with the adpater suppling power. With some research > and an investment of like $5, you can probably still use your > keyboards. > > Unicomp[1] still makes these keyboards, and you can get them for USB. > > I'm using one right now (with 122 keys), and among all the different > keyboards I used over the last 40 years, I've never found anything > better than these buckling spring ones. if they made them with a metal base mine would probably still be working, but the plastic base is too flexible for me. i have two dead ones. :( the pressure fitted ribbon cable connection is a really bad design and those plastic tabs break off. otherwise the feel is good. very loud when i'm writing... songbird
Re: what keyboard do you use?
jeremy ardley wrote: ... > You can also get ones with keyboard lighting. It is actually helpful, > though ones that do light shows are to be avoided. Just a simple green > or such and perhaps ones that briefly dim the light on each key when you > strike it. you can change the light show by pressing various key combinations or you can use software to do it for you when the machine boots. i decided to just use the key presses and avoid having yet more packages installed. the light show i prefer for most typing is the one which lights up the key just a little when it is pressed. so it is not too bright as to be distracting but it does provide some feedback. you can adjust how bright you want it to be in five increments. i leave it at one. i rarely need to see all of the keys at one time. when getting going for the day i have an id and password so that is when i want all the keys visible - after that it rarely matters, but it is easy enough to change it back and forth. if you want to have some blinkin' lights you can put on some nice effects when you press keys, at night it can look like a Christmas tree. :) just to show someone. i find it too distracting for normal operation. songbird
Re: what keyboard do you use?
Lee wrote: > I bought a Dell desktop in 2019 and the keyboard just died :( ... a Corsair K70 CORE RGB Mechanical Gaming Keyboard. my previous keyboard was starting to miss key presses and duplicating others. since i also needed a new mouse it was a day to get a refresh. paid about $80 for it. works fine, did not install any software to mess with the settings i just use the manual key presses to set it after booting (i don't want lights flashing or moving when i'm typing and i'm ok with not seeing the keys most of the time so i turn the lights way down). it is a little stiff and very quiet compared to what i'm used to but it's working fine. since they keys are partially clear to let light through i'm not worried about wearing the keycaps off. if i get 3 years out of it i'll be happy. i seem to go from 1-3 years most of the time before something breaks. it is not light, it is not thin. i perch it on my lap as i type, it has to be flat and kept flet by some- thing better than plastic to not mess up the stuff inside (based upon previous keyboards that failed due to plastic flexing too much over time). so we'll see how this one works out longer term. songbird
Re: in an object oriented world
John Hasler wrote: > songbird writes: >> every thing running on a computer should be able to say: > >> "I am [x version ...], these are my parents [y, z, 1, ...], i was >> compiled by program [...] from source code [...], here are my >> credentials [blah, blah]" > >> when sent a signal from GOD. > > Why should she believe it? because it only comes from GOD. no other process can send this signal. >> any process which does not respond should be thus cast into the outer >> darkness of the bits and never to return (aka a virus or unauthorized >> program). > > Malware can lie. A virus can infect an authorized program and use its > credentials. objects are only created by authorized calls to other objects so there is no pathway to infect if done correctly. if you do not allow random objects to be created that are not verified and vetted then there are no viruses. note, i'm just kicking this around and wondering if it really would be possible. songbird
in an object oriented world
every thing running on a computer should be able to say: "I am [x version ...], these are my parents [y, z, 1, ...], i was compiled by program [...] from source code [...], here are my credentials [blah, blah]" when sent a signal from GOD. since GOD can kill you you should have the right response ready when (s)he calls. any process which does not respond should be thus cast into the outer darkness of the bits and never to return (aka a virus or unauthorized program). yes, i'm amused by conversations in debian devel at times... songbird (recursively or not cursedly yours parenthetical or knot
Re: Replace Grub with rEFInd [WAS Possibly broken Grub or initrd after updates on Testing]
Richard Rosner wrote: > So, since for whatever reason Grub seems to be broken beyond repair, I > today tried to just replace it with rEFInd. Installation succeeded > without any trouble. But when I start my system, rEFInd just asks me if > I want to boot with fwupd or with the still very broken Grub. Am I > missing something? Is rEFInd really just something to select between > different OSs (and not just different distributions like Grub can very > well do) and then gives the rest over to their bootloaders or am I > missing something so rEFInd will take over all of Grubs jobs? ... i don't do encryption or raid so i keep things pretty simple. i've been using refind for years without issues. i also have grub installed so if either of them breaks the other is still likely going to work. i've also set it up so that each can be reached from the other through their menus. i see you've solved your issue, but i just wanted to point out that it works and is ok for people who want to try it out. songbird
worn off key labels
Jeremy Nicoll wrote: > On Thu, 21 Dec 2023, at 13:36, songbird wrote: > >> i've >> already worn some of letters off the keys. :( but, well, i got >> it on sale for about $30 so i really can't complain. > > For years I've used Dymo labels to replace keyboard legends. > (Not the 1960s/1970s thick 3d labels, but 'printed' ones). After > sticking individual letters onto keytops (usually using tweezers > to position them as accurately as possible) I put mutiple coats > of clear nail varnish over them - which seems to lengthen their > life & help to hold down the edges of the stickers. > > When they eventually need replaced it's sometimes difficult > to get a Dymo letter off a key, needing something sharp (eg > a needle or scalpel) to lift the sticky label off the key. > > Then I clean the key with isopropyl alcohol (as used eg for > cleaning heads on tape recorders), & make & attach a new > label. > > Mostly I use Dymo media corresponding to the colour > scheme of the original keyboard, but - eg on a laptop > which has white legends on black keys - I've replaced > some legends with "black print on yellow tape" labels > which are much easier to see and provide me with a > few visual landmarks on the keyboard ... which helps me > when I don't yet quite need to put a room light on. > > I keep hoping that my next laptop will have a backlit > keyboard but very often the machines I choose (for > other higher-priority criteria) don't have them. > > I've also tried a few clip-on mini lights (plugged into a > spare USB socket) but many such lights come with poor > quality clips &/ cables that are too short to reach the > USB socket of choice (or indeed any USB socket). i usually don't even look at the keyboard when i'm typing. just once in a while when i need to use a strange key. :) in the winter i may even type with my hands under a light blanket. the idea of using a sticker is a good one but i have black keys and no white ink. however, i could get by using something to just mark the key a bit in the right shape to give me a hint if i need it. so far i don't seem to need it. this would really amaze my typing teacher from Jr. High School (who is likely now long dead) as i managed to flunk it. at that time (several years before i even first touched a computer) the class was all manual typewriters and i was a bored trouble maker. i did deserve to be flunked - no excuse there at all... but what was funny is that i went on to college and having to use a keypunch and then terminals of many kinds and so with all the hours i spent at the keyboards i was forced to learn how to touch type after all, so yes, that teacher was right. :) songbird
Re: Mouse single click handling?
James H. H. Lampert wrote: > On 12/20/23 11:30 AM, Jeremy Nicoll wrote: >> Until about a year ago my experience with Logitech mice had been >> good. Those that had died normally did so after falling off a desk, >> which I don't really see as a manufacturing fault. >> >> But since then several I've bought have all failed with the problem of >> LMB sending double-clicks when pressed once. That includes two >> separate "Pebble" mice. > > I've also been sticking with Logitech mice for many years. Specifically, > M100/B100/M110, > > But my brand-loyalty has been eroding, because they've been cheapening > their product. In particular, it wasn't that long ago that, without > changing the model number, or making any public announcement, they > pulled support for PS/2 (and therefore for passive PS/2 adapters) from > what had been, up until then, dual-mode mice. Not a major problem for > Linux, running on current hardware, but a *very* major problem for me, > because I also run DOS (IBM PC/DOS 2000, with no WinDoze whatsoever) on > antique hardware. > > Fortunately, I live and work near what can only be described as a > computer junk shop, where finding antique hardware, some of it still > new-in-box, is not terribly difficult. > > But I can definitely confirm that Logitech is NOT making mice like they > used to. true, my M325 is doing the quick double clicks recently. :( i'd love a converted Model M with a long (12ft) USB cable. but i won't buy a new keyboard that is all plastic because they just bend too much and then fail. > If only Unicomp made a mouse as good as their keyboards . . . . sadly i have two of them which failed too soon because they don't have a sold base. when used as lapkeyboards they stopped sending the correct signals. i switched to a Logitech K840 which does have a solid base and it works, but i hate how stiff it feels and it's been fading somewhat on me recently and needing repeat key presses at some times to get a key to register. i've already worn some of letters off the keys. :( but, well, i got it on sale for about $30 so i really can't complain. i won't buy any more keyboards from them because it costs as much to fix them as it does to buy a new one. i haven't figured out how to fix them myself, but it would be nice to see any vids where someone takes one apart and puts one back together again and it actually works (note: i haven't looked recently). songbird
Re: Image handling in mutt
debian-u...@howorth.org.uk wrote: > songbird wrote: >> wrote: >> > On Sun, Dec 10, 2023 at 01:28:20PM -0500, songbird wrote: >> >> wrote: >> >> there is rarely a need to e-mail me directly. >> >> >> ... >> >> > That's why I cringe when people name executables "foo.sh". What >> >> > do you do when you decide to rewrite the thing in C (or Rust, or >> >> > whatever)? >> >> > >> >> > Do you go over all calling sites and change the caller's code? >> >> >> >> no, i would just consider it a transition or a change >> >> in versions. :) >> > >> > Again. You have one script, say /usr/local/bin/ring-the-bells.sh >> > You use it in several other scripts. If you now re-implement it >> > in your favourite Pascal as ring-the-bells.pas or something, you >> > go over all your executables and fix that? >> > >> > IMO an executable name should indicate /what/ an executable does, >> > not /how/. >> >> i'm fine with that, but i'm also capable enough to know >> how to search through a code base to find all the strings >> i might need to change. > > You make the anti-heroic assumption that your code is never used > outside of your control (or specifically, outside of your code base). if someone else uses it then they can do what they want with it. i can only control my own local system and that is all i am concerned about. in actual programming with libraries there are these things called APIs and ABIs and both are usually documented and defined if it is important enough and used enough. IMO most of my code does not reach that level of use. >> i just scanned a few of my projects and noted i do not >> use the .sh extension much at all for the binaries/executables, >> but parts of the code may have that extension. > > That's a fine choice, as long as none of the internals will be exposed > externally, IMHO. Though I confess I do often add a .pl extension to > filenames :( not something i'm worried about for sure. > PS I suspect tomas sent mail to you for the same reason I nearly did, > namely that you or your mailer explicitly asked for it with a reply-to > header. Certainly my claws MUA interprets that as meaning you want a > copy too. correct, so if you are going to reply to me personally that is the right address to use, but since i interact with this list via gmane and usenet a followup to me should go to the list and not to me personally. i would assume that group reply is one that everyone should be using automatically for mail list participation using a mail client unless the person mentions they are not subscribed and would like personal replies. songbird
Re: Image handling in mutt
wrote: > On Sun, Dec 10, 2023 at 01:28:20PM -0500, songbird wrote: >> wrote: there is rarely a need to e-mail me directly. >> ... >> > That's why I cringe when people name executables "foo.sh". What do you >> > do when you decide to rewrite the thing in C (or Rust, or whatever)? >> > >> > Do you go over all calling sites and change the caller's code? >> >> no, i would just consider it a transition or a change >> in versions. :) > > Again. You have one script, say /usr/local/bin/ring-the-bells.sh > You use it in several other scripts. If you now re-implement it > in your favourite Pascal as ring-the-bells.pas or something, you > go over all your executables and fix that? > > IMO an executable name should indicate /what/ an executable does, > not /how/. i'm fine with that, but i'm also capable enough to know how to search through a code base to find all the strings i might need to change. i just scanned a few of my projects and noted i do not use the .sh extension much at all for the binaries/executables, but parts of the code may have that extension. >> i was always glad when people wrote descriptive names >> for their programs instead of "f" or "f(x)". > > This is something totally different. Call the function by > what it does, but -- again -- not by how. :) >> since my first major programs were written in Assembler >> Pascal and C whatever extensions needed for those were >> used, i didn't see it as any fault. > > It is your prerogative, of course. I'm happy that ls is ls > and git, git (not ls.i-was-implemented-in-c or something). sure. songbird
Re: Unattended Upgrades Ran Anyway.
Dan Ritter wrote: > Stefan Monnier wrote: >> On my trusty Thinkpad X30, upgrades are sufficiently taxing that having >> them run unexpectedly can be a real problem, so I tried to prevent >> unattended upgrades a few months ago. > > > I have always preferred the apticron package, which by default > updates daily and sends an email letting me know that they are > available, rather than doing the upgrade itself. as everyone can have their own reasons for what they are doing i would not expect anyone else to do what i am but since we're on the topic. :) i do not run auto updates of any kind for Debian (for either testing or stable or any other instances i may have set up). currently i don't have any oddities out there running. instead, each morning i cold start my computer (i prefer it being off when i am not using it) and it boots into testing i drag in my new e-mails and usenet group posts and then fire up the update of the indexes for the various Debian package repositories it needs. after the update finishes then i check to see what kind of updates are there. some days i scan the list and just pull it all and apply them, other days i will hold certain packages because i don't want to deal with it that day. i run a few packages from sid/unstable but they usually are self-contained enough that i don't worry about it. songbird
Re: Image handling in mutt
wrote: ... > That's why I cringe when people name executables "foo.sh". What do you > do when you decide to rewrite the thing in C (or Rust, or whatever)? > > Do you go over all calling sites and change the caller's code? no, i would just consider it a transition or a change in versions. :) i was always glad when people wrote descriptive names for their programs instead of "f" or "f(x)". since my first major programs were written in Assembler Pascal and C whatever extensions needed for those were used, i didn't see it as any fault. songbird
Re: sid
Arno Lehmann, ITS wrote: ... > Then, you have problems with Sid. Now, Sid is the unstable development > version of the distro. On the web page describing the different > releases, https://www.debian.org/releases/ the authors stated very > clearly that Sid might not work and even mentions disfunctional updates > as an example. They also state that users of Sid should subscribe to > debian-devel-announce. My conclusion is that problems with Sid should be > discussed with the developers community. ... on top of your comments also realise that sid and testing are going through usr-merge changes for some time and it will continue and things may be in an in-between-state in places between not working and working. i would also follow debian-devel, installer and tool-chain lists if you are going to get into sid and testing to see what has been being talked about. songbird
Re: UFW/GFW Doesn't start up after running previously
marathon wrote: > Using Debian Bookworm, on Lenovo X280 laptop. Each time after cold startup > or from suspend, I've found the ufw software is turned off and blocks all > network activity in that state. > Does anyone have any idea why? Can I provide further information? > > Thanks. did you make changes at some point? as root what does ufw status say? if needed run ufw enable. also perhaps somehow during an upgrade or install it somehow was corrupted so try apt reinstall ufw. this is what i would look at first. songbird
Re: Debian GNU/Linux Books
Timothy M Butterworth wrote: > All, > > I have been looking for commercial books written about Debian and there is > very little selection. I am considering writing an updated Debian GNU/Linux > Bible for Bookworm/Trixie. Before I started writing it I was wondering if > anyone would even be interested in buying a copy of it? # apt-get install debian-handbook songbird
Re: Acer Monitors
Stephen P. Molnar wrote: > I am running Bookworm on a AMD CPU and am considering purchasing an > Acer and considering the EK272 EBI 72 in. > > I'd be interested in hearing any comments from users of Acer products. so far i've only had this one monitor from them and by today's standards it's pretty old and not very likely representative of the newer technologies. it was manufactured sometime in the later part of 2015: [ 7.929] (II) modeset(0): Manufacturer: ACR Model: 2ca still working. i've never needed support for it in any way so i don't know how their service is like. songbird
Re: sata driver compataility Q
gene heskett wrote: > On 9/16/23 06:07, songbird wrote: >> gene heskett wrote: >> ... >>> This setup worked instantly under buster and bullseye, but takes from 30 >>> secs to 5 minutes to open a write requestor window asking where to put >>> the download I clicked on under bookworrm. >> >>trace the first part of the process and see what is >> taking so long. > > I'd love to, but how do you trace a mouse click? All the > "alphabet-trace" utils I know are cli only. Probably my fault, but... replace the /usr/bin/ by a script which traces the in question... or if it is X related there are probably ways of tracing X. it might be a desktop, greeter or a window manager binary of some type but you should eventually be able to figure out what is going on. songbird
Re: sata driver compataility Q
gene heskett wrote: ... > This setup worked instantly under buster and bullseye, but takes from 30 > secs to 5 minutes to open a write requestor window asking where to put > the download I clicked on under bookworrm. trace the first part of the process and see what is taking so long. songbird
Re: door bell like sound effect
Karl Vogel wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 30, 2023 at 07:55:14AM -0400, songbird wrote:
>> Karl Vogel wrote:
>> ...
>> > If nothing else, it's faster to run "locate" and look for file extensions;
>> > running "file" on that much crap took nearly 9 hours.
>>
>> do you have SSDs or spinning rust?
>
> I have a 256-Gb SSD and two mirrored Western Digital Blue 1.8-Tb drives.
> About 2 million files are on SSD and the rest are on rust.
>
> I used "file" v5.45 built from source, which does a nice job but is IO-
> and CPU-intensive.
mirroring is going to be quite a difference, especially
if you are updating each file's access time (see below).
>> when i just did this:
>> # find / -type f | wc -l
>> it took all of 24 seconds for the 2.4 million files found.
>
> Generating hashes for SSD files is faster than getting the filetype;
> it takes about 17 minutes for 3.6 million files (153 Gbytes). I like
> the Blake-2 hash cuz it's fast as hell, among other things:
>
> #!/bin/ksh
> #
> export PATH=/usr/local/bin:/bin:/usr/bin
> tag=${0##*/}
> set -o nounset
> umask 022
>
> logmsg () { logger -t "$tag" "$@"; }
> die (){ logmsg "FATAL: $@"; exit 1; }
>
> work=$(mktemp -q "/tmp/$tag.work.XX")
> case "$?" in
> 0) test -f "$work" || die "$work: tmp list file not found" ;;
> *) die "can't create work file" ;;
> esac
>
> # Get a list of all regular files on SSD.
>
> mount | grep '^zroot' | awk '{print $3}' |
> while read dataset
> do
> logmsg "listing $dataset"
> find "$dataset" -xdev -type f -print0 >> $work
> done
>
> # Store hashes for SSD datasets.
> # The hash file is sorted by filename to make comparisons easier.
>
> logmsg "running b2sum"
> fdbdir=$(date '+/var/fdb/%Y/%m%d')
> sort -z $work | xargs -0r b2sum -l 128 > "$fdbdir/zroot.sum"
> rm $work
> exit 0
>
> Useful for finding changed files -- security, backups, etc.
>
>> what script did you use?
>
> #!/bin/ksh
> #
> export PATH=/usr/local/bin:/bin:/usr/bin
> set -o nounset
> tag=${0##*/}
> umask 022
>
> logmsg () { logger -t "$tag" "$@"; }
>
> work="/tmp/$tag.$$"
> fsys="/ /doc /home /usr/local /search /usr/src /dist /src"
>
> logmsg start
> find $fsys -xdev -print0 | xargs -0 file -N --mime-type > $work
> logmsg finish
>
> mv $work filetypes
> exit 0
interesting and thanks for that. :)
my comments that follow are geared towards finding the
files that have been referenced and changed only in recent
times so that you are not having to process the entire
file system.
so the find statement would be adjusted to use -cmin or
-amin (depending upon if i want to find changes or accessed
files) and the file command would include the parameter
flag -p to avoid updating the access time.
as for the other topic of finding changed files and using
hashes is a whole different topic and one that i don't need.
this is the sort of thing that git can do so i would not
want to reinvent that if i don't really need to (which at
present i don't). i keep track of certain directories and
that's all i need. for directories or file systems that i
need read only i use the read only mount feature or set
permissions.
songbird
Re: door bell like sound effect
wrote: ... > Yours just sailed through the directory structures. yes, i know that, which is why i asked. ;) songbird
Re: door bell like sound effect
Karl Vogel wrote: ... > If nothing else, it's faster to run "locate" and look for file extensions; > running "file" on that much crap took nearly 9 hours. do you have SSDs or spinning rust? when i just did this: # find / -type f | wc -l it took all of 24 seconds for the 2.4 million files found. what script did you use? songbird
Re: door bell like sound effect
Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 11:32:25PM -0400, songbird wrote: >> Greg Wooledge wrote: >> > The problem is, most Debian systems are set up to mount the core file >> > systems with "relatime". This means you don't have a record of the >> > last time each file was accessed, so you can't ask the computer which >> > files were most recently opened. >> >> i don't have that one set at all in my fstab. > > It's a default option. It doesn't have to be visible in fstab. > Look at the *output of mount* instead. > > unicorn:~$ cat /etc/fstab > [...] > # / was on /dev/sda7 during installation > UUID=c4691ccb-2090-491e-8e82-d7cc822db04a / ext4 > errors=remount-ro 0 1 > [...] > > unicorn:~$ mount | grep 'on / ' > /dev/sda7 on / type ext4 (rw,relatime,errors=remount-ro) ok, i understand that but my command $ alias aq='find . -amin -30' $ aq works as it should. songbird
Re: door bell like sound effect
Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 09:21:11PM -0400, songbird wrote: >> Cindy Sue Causey wrote: >> ... >> > That triggered yet another thought: What about some kind of a file >> > search that narrows down "Last Accessed" data for all the various >> > sound file types? >> >> most recently accessed files could be located via find >> command. i assumed Gene would know how to do that... > > The problem is, most Debian systems are set up to mount the core file > systems with "relatime". This means you don't have a record of the > last time each file was accessed, so you can't ask the computer which > files were most recently opened. i don't have that one set at all in my fstab. > At that point, Gene's knowledge (or lack thereof) isn't relevant. can't say... songbird
Re: door bell like sound effect
Cindy Sue Causey wrote: ... > That triggered yet another thought: What about some kind of a file > search that narrows down "Last Accessed" data for all the various > sound file types? most recently accessed files could be located via find command. i assumed Gene would know how to do that... > Personal experience is that manually viewing e.g. /usr/share isn't > 100% perfect. It's been a couple years, but I've also seen sound files > stored more locally within some given package's own parent/child file > hierarchy. That helps make our favorite file search programs > priceless. > > Cindy :) if the system can't tell you what's been recently accessed and you are on-line then you need to go off-line until you've figured it out. if Gene leaves his network up and accessible to others all night when he's sleeping then perhaps he needs to bring it down and that will slay the gremlins... songbird
Re: door bell like sound effect
gene heskett wrote: > Greetings; > > odd request: > > Somewhere, for some unk reason, there is a sound file file that plays at > max volume, usually around 2 AM or slightly later, that is very similar > to the 40 yo doorbell in this house. A bing-bong sound that differs from > the real doorbell by maybe 5hz in pitch. Wakes me up, spoiling a good > nights sleep, maybe a dozen times a year an apparently random dates. > > To aid in finding it, what extension might that file be carrying to > indicate its a .snd fle, which according to grep on ls -lR's output, > does not exist in the thousands of files under hundreds of random names. > > This file that sounds exactly like my doorbell has existed on my > 24/7/365.25 on main system for at least 20 years. I'd like to A. find > it, B. find what condition uses it, fix the condition, or even delete it. > > How can I best do that? updatedb, followed by locate door or locate bell > reports nothing. > > There are now 2 different PIR based devices watching that doorbell > button, which trigger on the neighbors cat walking by but remain silent > when this sound jacks me up in the middle of the night. > > Any help in finding this will be hugely appreciated. perhaps a desktop sound? i hate noises so i turn them off. see if you have any enabled and if so check them all to see what they sound like. if a file does not have an extension you can still use the file command to see if it can figure out what it is. good luck, songbird
Re: cups blowed up again, when do we get a print system that Just Works?
gene heskett wrote: ... > Thanks. when someone ignores common sense after frequently shooting themself in the foot there's not much more i can do for them. i suggest a system management approach which involves snapshots (use git on the whole thing if you have to or some partition image copier or something). when you have a working setup, get that snapshot so you can always fall back to it. the other important part is being able to get to a reliably repeatable state from a cold boot. always keep those working setups backed up. otherwise you are just wasting your time (repeatedly it seems to me). songbird
Re: is it unusual that 12.1 is released so soon after 12?
wrote: > On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 11:32:49AM +, Andy Smith wrote: >> Hi, >> >> On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 06:14:16PM +0800, hlyg wrote: >> > it seems that x.1 are really stable while x are beta release >> >> That is not by design, but by largely unavoidable consequence, and >> so a Debian stable release is not considered a "beta" ion any >> respect. > > I think that the best correspondence to the "beta" idea in Debian > is the freeze process (explained here [1] for buster). So x.0 is > considered "release quality". > > The freeze process is designed to cope with the specialties of a > big and complex software distribution, where you want its many > interdependent parts to "settle" in "layers", starting from the > most fundamental ones and propagating to the "leaves". > > Cheers > > [1] https://release.debian.org/bookworm/freeze_policy.html sometimes it may be more like fermenting before it settles. :) i appreciate everything that people do for Debian from the development to the testing to the refinements and even to the sometimes long drawn out discussions about how to do something or how to fix things or make them better. and then those who help the rest of us out and keep us somewhat on the straight and narrow pathway towards nerdvanna. songbird
Re: Happy 30 Years Debian Project
Luna Jernberg wrote: > Happy Birthday 30 years of the Debian Linux Project ... and congrats on surviving and persisting through all that can happen. :) songbird
Re: /etc/resolv.conf changes every booting time
gene heskett wrote: ... > I load up a file I want to 3d print in cura, slice it into gcode, click > on save to disk. kde gets in the way so it opens a tab on the toolbar at > the bottom of the screen and to continue I have to click on that tab. > 20% of the time the where do you want to save it requester pops up > instantly but 80% of the time the whole workspace freezes for 2 minutes. > Eventually the save requester pops up and life goes on at normal speeds > I have the thought that both occurrences are different exhibits of the > same access problem. But thats just a WAG. The commonality is both apps > are AppImages, and my /home is a raid. Is there a connection? w/o logs, > how can I tell. There are no "user" logs. as i may have said before. whatever you have going on with file saving and file system access may be getting stomped all over by whatever settings you have in the KDE desktop or the particular application. so one thing i would do for sure is make sure that the KDE desktop file extension associations that may be turned on to do anything automatically are turned off (until you resolve where the issue actually resides). once you have the KDE desktop stuff turned off then you can at least know it isn't that which is mucking you up. from there is it some other thing? well, if it now works then you've solved it, and if it hasn't been solved then you've at least eliminated one variable. from there if it still does not work then you are up against any automatic automounter crap (which i find a PITA so i remove it or find ways to turn it off which then gets through another layer of possible variables). after that you should be down to the applcation and what settings it has for dealing with file and accesses and again i turn off all automatic stuff i can there to make sure exactly what i'm trying to do can get done with minimal interference. since you have network stuff going on which i hardly ever do and i also don't do bluethooth, samba, ssh, rpc (or plenty of other things) well then you're going to have to wade through those things and see what each may let you do to narrow down where the issue is at. when you have a complicated system it may be well worth it to set up a blank slate new machine and put in each layer and test it before adding the next to see which step is going kerblooey. if i'm running a production system this is a natural and common procedure for any upgrade and debugging. gotta have a way to do tests that doesn't shut down production. songbird
Re: /etc/resolv.conf changes every booting time
Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote: ... > He just told you to not hijack threads, and there you go and your > immediate reply is to start talking about something completely unrelated > to the rest of the discussion. oops, sorry, i just replied again. songbird
Re: logging no longer standard?
gene heskett wrote: >songbird wrote: ... >>man journald.conf... > > I've looked at that, even looked at the file. It is all systemd > related, no mention of user stuffs. Its as if a 3 meter tall board > fence has been built around the systemd stuff that user apps can't get thru. no, i was just pointing out that i find the combined logs of systemd a lot easier to deal with as root instead of trying to look at them as a user and having them broken apart. for a simple system that i run it makes little sense to complicate things by having separate logs in systemd journal. > Glaringly missing is anything related to something the user might want > to do. So where is an equal facility for user stuffs? Someplace where > an AppImage looking for a missing dependency might express its > displeasure at not finding everything it needs? i'm light years behind App[Anything]. once you mix up what a system is doing then that adds yet more complexity which like i mentioned above i tend to not do if i can help it. IMO once you've started installing things from a vendor's repository you've then got to figure out how that integrates or not with your package management system. the most of that which i do here is in Python and i use virtual environments to try to isolate the problem children to where i hope they won't mess up the rest of my Python install. so far that seems to be working as intended. i'm sorry i can't help much... songbird
Re: logging no longer standard?
gene heskett wrote: ... > I believe konsole is unlimited by default. On checking in settings, its > not listed. Scrollback is from my /tmp, which would be on my raid10, so > maybe that something else that is blocked from useing my raid10. IDK. > ulimit reports unlimited. And there is 32G of dram available, htop says: > a bit over 2G's in use out of 32G's, 0 swap/30G's available. konsole is a kde package so i'm not familiar with it at all. i do not use split journal files with systemd so i see everything combined and use root. i also have rsyslog installed because at times i like to be able to see messages in that format. sudo crap i don't bother with either, that's why there is root, if i don't want to have root access then i have all my other terminals set up for my user access only and that's fine with me. man journald.conf... songbird
Re: logging no longer standard?
gene heskett wrote: ... > Many times over the last 25 years. However this problem occurs when it > has already output several gigabytes of previous data the shell has > scrolled off the end of th buffer.. There is not a way to have it start > doing the trace when I click on the save to disk button. That would > make 500x more useful as a tracing aid. Or do yu know a trick that > allows that? set your shell to unlimited or tee it to a file on a big SSD partition. songbird
Re: logging no longer standard?
gene heskett wrote: ... > Absolutely none of that makes it to the log I can read with sudo. > > This causes me to ask about any new ACL's bookworm might have put in > place, but questions about that have so far been totally ignored. I > according to an ls -lR, own that raid10 lock, stock and barrel, so why > can't apps running as me, write to it without the 2 minute wait? And > why is there no d-- clue in the logs root can read, showing why this > is happening. have you ever used strace? songbird
Re: Strange Boot Behavior
Stephen P. Molnar wrote: > I have Debian 12 installed on my main computer. how old is this machine? how old are the SSDs? do you power it down completely often? does it have a bios battery that has finally reached its EOL? were any updates applied recently that touched GRUB? > This morning, when I booted the computer , I got "GRUB ERROR>" and the > message that there was no operating system on the boot SSD. > > Fortunately, I have Debian 12 installed on two SSD's on the platform. I > shut down the computer, restarted it with F2 to open the BIOS and > selected the other SSD with Debian. When GRUB came up I was presented > the normal selection screen, The booting process continued normally with > the SSD that gave me the "GRUB ERROR>" initially. > > Then I shut down the system and restarted it. Normal start up!! > > Does anyone have any ideal as to what might be going on (yes, I know an > impossible question)? hopefully nothing serious, but ... make sure your backups are functional. songbird
Re: Recommendations for a UPS?
Tom Browder wrote: > I used to use UPS units from APC back when you could replace the battery. I > haven't had an UPS (but always on a surge protecter) for awhile, but > electricity (now FPL) is not as reliable in my new location and I need one. > > All the reviews I've seen on Amazon for smaller capacity UPSs for APC and > Tripp Lite are not that great (I usually concentrate on the one- and > two-star reviews). > > Any recommenndations from fellow Debian folks? i've gotten my money's worth out of two APC's. the first one i bought for about $70 back in 1998 or so and it lasted about 20 years without a battery change or any other issues. i did have to replace it and bought an APC Pro 1000 S as it was on sale and fit my needs and so far it has worked as advertised for a few years. one requirement for me is that i do not want something beeping at me. i really like is the built in watt meter which lets me find out how much juice various things use that i have around here. i do not run things for long when the power goes out but the capacity for my needs is plenty and then i shut down in an orderly fashion. most of the time i shut down the computer system and unplug the power cord and the network cables and antenna cables if there is a storm coming through - just out of the idea that i don't really want things to get fried. songbird
Re: Partial Freeze Bullseye Mat
Peter Ehlert wrote: > > On 7/14/23 10:49, songbird wrote: >>if you use journalctl -f to watch what is happening >> does anything show up? > > good thought, thanks. > at the moment I see only this: > > peter@z840x:~$ journalctl -f > Hint: You are currently not seeing messages from other users and the system. > Users in groups 'adm', 'systemd-journal' can see all messages. > Pass -q to turn off this notice. > Jul 15 05:15:01 z840x clock-applet[2507]: _weather_info_fill: assertion > '((info == NULL) && (location != NULL)) || ((info != NULL) && (location >== NULL))' failed > Jul 15 05:15:02 z840x clock-applet[2507]: weather_info_abort: assertion > 'info != NULL' failed > Jul 15 05:15:02 z840x clock-applet[2507]: _weather_info_fill: assertion > '((info == NULL) && (location != NULL)) || ((info != NULL) && (location >== NULL))' failed > Jul 15 05:15:09 z840x clock-applet[2507]: weather_info_abort: assertion > 'info != NULL' failed > Jul 15 05:15:09 z840x clock-applet[2507]: _weather_info_fill: assertion > '((info == NULL) && (location != NULL)) || ((info != NULL) && (location >== NULL))' failed > Jul 15 05:15:10 z840x clock-applet[2507]: weather_info_abort: assertion > 'info != NULL' failed > Jul 15 05:15:10 z840x clock-applet[2507]: _weather_info_fill: assertion > '((info == NULL) && (location != NULL)) || ((info != NULL) && (location >== NULL))' failed > Jul 15 05:15:19 z840x systemd[1873]: Reached target printer.target - > Printer. > Jul 15 06:23:17 z840x dbus-daemon[1902]: [session uid=1000 pid=1902] > Activating service name='org.freedesktop.Notifications' requested by > ':1.68' (uid=1000 pid=2761 comm="/usr/bin/python3 /usr/bin/syncthing-gtk") > Jul 15 06:23:17 z840x dbus-daemon[1902]: [session uid=1000 pid=1902] > Successfully activated service 'org.freedesktop.Notifications' > >=== if you run the journalctl -f as root you'll see everything and not just for the user. otherwise, yes, agree with you at this point it is a hardware issue. one thing i do like about desktops and make sure of is that there are enough spare USB headers so i can plug in more replaceable ports instead of using the hard soldered ones for things i will plug and unplug often. songbird
Re: gnome-schedule gone from bullseye and bookworm
here's the removal bug for more details: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=808060 songbird
Re: gnome-schedule gone from bullseye and bookworm
Rick Macdonald wrote: > I fell behind with my major upgrades, and just upgraded from buster to > bullseye (soon to be followed by bookworm). > > I've been using gnome-schedule, a simple cron GUI, for quite some time > now but it seems to be gone. The upgrade REMOVED it, as shown below. > Strange thing is, searching the web site I can't even find the old > buster gnome-schedule package that I had. > > What happened to it? Is there an alternative GUI? > >> The following packages will be REMOVED: >> ... >> gnome-schedule inkscape kodi kodi-data lib32stdc++-8-dev >> libgfortran-8-dev libmailutils5 libodbcinstq4-1:i386 libphonon4 >> libqscintilla2-qt4-13 libqt4-dbus libqt4-dbus:i386 looks like it was removed some time ago... https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?archive=both;package=gnome-schedule https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=614743 songbird
Re: Partial Freeze Bullseye Mat
if you use journalctl -f to watch what is happening does anything show up? often when i get pauses from USB devices they will show up as errors, device disconnects and reconnects and/or resetting the device. songbird
[solved] Re: MATE panel in testing upgrade didn't go well
songbird wrote: > as a heads-up for those running MATE from testing. > > i suggest avoiding this upgrade for the moment. ... today's update to 1.27.1-2 looks to have worked. :) ah, much better... thanks! :) songbird
Re: digiKam dead, cannot import from camera
gene heskett wrote: ... > gene@coyote:~$ ls -l .local/share/shotwell/data > total 3656 > -rw-r--r-- 1 gene gene 1871872 Jun 26 10:48 photo.db > -rw-r--r-- 1 gene gene 1871872 Jun 26 10:48 photo.db.bak if you want to see what that has in it: $ echo .dump | sqlite3 photo.db | more years ago i hit bug in shotwell that destroyed all my tag data that i'd spent a lot of time putting in so after getting things restored from a backup i then wrote a script to dump the tags out so i could also back those up. i no longer bother with that (since i do more regular backups which include the shotwell data files), but it was instructive to me. :) songbird
Re: digiKam dead, cannot import from camera
Greg Wooledge wrote: ... > I know absolutely nothing about this software, but look at that QUrl in > the last line of the log. That looks entirely wrong to me. You said in > another message that the full path of the directory was > /home/gene/Pictures/Saw4Bruce so shouldn't the URL be > file:///home/gene/Pictures/Saw4Bruce/ ? yes! perhaps his preferences for that program got changed or need to be updated? > Unless the application is running chrooted at /home/gene/Pictures/ (which > strikes me as exceedingly unlikely), I don't see how that URL would ever > work. > > So, my initial question would be why that URL is wrong. Is the application > being sent a relative directory path but interpreting it as an absolute > directory path? Something along those lines. You'll need to investigate > with people who actually know this software. Those people may or may not > be on debian-user. true, i've never touched it and have no plans. almost every digital camera i've owned has had proprietary Windows software included which never gets touched by me. songbird
Re: digiKam dead, cannot import from camera
gene heskett wrote: ...shotwell... > I ran if from the menu, took it about 10 minutes to import my Pictures > tree and missed several subdirs contents. When I quit it, all traces of > the nearly 4000 pictures it claimed to have imported during the scan > simply disappeared, Probably still taking up disk space SOMEWHERE but no > clue where it might be. This isn't windows, why the secrecy? shotwell is a whole different rabbit hole. :) when you imported did you say make a copy the files or not? if not then the original files should be where they were before. the Edit->Preferences should tell you where the files were copied to or where things are stored. along with that space there are files in .local/share/shotwell/data -rwx-- 1 me me 6449152 Jun 27 09:34 photo.db -rwx-- 1 me me 6449152 Jun 27 09:34 photo.db.bak thumbnails are in .cache/shotwell/thumbs > Looking at its menu's, I didn't find anything that indicated it could > access the turned on camera, if shotwell can, where is it in the menu's? is the camera turned on? it won't show up for me if it isn't turned on. i do not use shotwell to access the camera myself. songbird
Re: digiKam dead, cannot import from camera
gene heskett wrote: > songbird wrote: ... >>disabling or masking. i do that along with a few other >> things that i don't use or care about. >> > I swear, this place is haunted, Songbird. There are no wires hooking up > a back doorbell, I've checked, but at random times, usually at night, > the doorbell goes off with a single bong, waking me up just now. And its > done it for the 33 years I've been here. 4, or 5 times a year... > > I've chmod -x both of the files named in a bugreport, so htop can't find > them runninng but to remove the locks, I might have to reboot, which > I've not done yet because it takes about 10 minutes to get my local > network running again. That takes most of that 10 minutes of retyping > my pw. All that suf runs as me, not root. It also takes around 10 > sessions of dot sourceing what should be automatic with opening a > terminal but putting it in .bashrc doesn't work. Somebodies #@^& > paranoia hmm, i looked at the list of masked things i have and there is udisks2.service that i do not run. $ man -k udisk udisks (8) - Disk Manager udisks2.conf (5) - The udisks2 configuration file udisksctl (1)- The udisks command line tool udisksd (8) - The udisks system daemon umount.udisks2 (8) - unmount file systems that have been mounted by UDisks2 songbird
Re: digiKam dead, cannot import from camera
Bret Busby wrote: ... > I simply use shotwell. It works for me, without any problems. i use shotwell for tagging and being able to find certain pictures by tag or by date (or both), but eventually i still want an easy way to find specific files easily and so i have a separate index by date so i can grab the file easily once i know what the name/date of it is. > What the gnomes did, when they said "Up Yours!" to users, and imposed > gnome3, caused me to switch to mate, which I have been (mostly) happily > using, since I discovered mate. The only significant problem, is that I > have to slightly modify mate, by using a deprecated and difficult to > find, theme, of which, I store a copy on my Ventoy drive, so that I can > install the theme as needed. :) songbird
Re: digiKam dead, cannot import from camera
to...@tuxteam.de wrote: ... > Yikes. Those gnomies do love complexity. I know why our ways parted > long ago. yes, among the many other assumptions. i'm afraid though that some of these things creep into MATE in time. :( > You might try disabling gvfs-gphoto2-volume-monitor.service and see > what changes (possibly you can't access the camera at all, but who > knows). disabling or masking. i do that along with a few other things that i don't use or care about. > In any case put pebbles along the way so you can find your way back. > > Perhaps someone with more clue chimes in. > > Me? I just tell the camera to present a file system, mount it (yes, > manually) on /mnt and do a rsync. It's so much easier than all this > ritual dances that it's not even funny. yes. someone else downthread says to remove the gphoto2 package but that is useful, i just don't want it automatically engaged until i specifically ask for it. songbird
Re: digiKam dead, cannot import from camera
gene heskett wrote: ... > It also deletes the camera's pix as it copies them out. DigiKam doesn't > do that so I've always had a backup copy in the camera. So I won't dl > this script. > > I'd much rather find the real problem and get it fixed. inside the script are the examples of the commands used, which are what i considered the most useful things to use from that script for your own purposes. you'd be welcome to adapt the script for your own uses or just take bits of it. :) specifically, perhaps the unmount part to make sure anything automatically mounted is then unmounted and then use the mount part to put it back where you want it (and hopefully where it then would work). songbird
Re: digiKam dead, cannot import from camera
gene heskett wrote: > Greetimgs all; > > Something wiped my passwd so was forced to install bookworm. This time I > install both kde and gnome desktops, gnome looks great, just one major > problem. > > Something with "gvfsd-gphoto2 service" in its name is being blamed for > digiKam being able to see the pix in the camera when a usb cable is > plugged into it, but prevents digiKam from actually downloading the pix > using its import menu. So what package or where is that controlled. I > can kill it with htop, but its magicly restarted by plugging in the > camera cable. Rendering a 400+ dollar camera into a useless desk ornament. > > Thanks. > > Cheers, Gene Heskett. yes, i found a similar problem when i was trying to get pictures off my camera as the device was being grabbed by something else instead of what i wanted. i developed a script to make sure the camera was unmounted and then remounted where i wanted it. i don't have time to break it all out here but the script is freely available at: https://github.com/flowerbug/camera_file it uses fusermount, gio and gphoto. another script for moving and backing up files that is for me a second step is at: https://github.com/flowerbug/mcol_pictures i hope this helps. songbird
MATE panel in testing upgrade didn't go well
as a heads-up for those running MATE from testing. i suggest avoiding this upgrade for the moment. it left my previously defined desktops mostly missing, many things weren't loading or reloading correctly, etc. so i downgraded to previous version and put mate-panel on hold. this was the list of packages and versions (i suggest not removing the previous versions from your cache until you don't need them any longer). - The following packages have been kept back: gir1.2-matepanelapplet-4.0 (1.27.0-1 => 1.27.1-1) libmate-panel-applet-4-1 (1.27.0-1 => 1.27.1-1) libmate-panel-applet-dev (1.27.0-1 => 1.27.1-1) mate-panel (1.27.0-1 => 1.27.1-1) mate-panel-common (1.27.0-1 => 1.27.1-1) 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 5 not upgraded. ----- songbird
Re: package managers problem
DdB wrote: > Am 17.06.2023 um 14:38 schrieb Greg Wooledge: >> On Fri, Jun 16, 2023 at 11:03:59PM -0400, pa...@quillandmouse.com wrote: >>> Why isn't there a ONE WAY for packages to be managed? >> >> Because each user has a different preference. Just read this thread >> for example, and see all the differing opinions about how we like >> our packages to be managed. >> >> > Back in the days, i have been using synaptic myself. And after reading > this thread, i was curious about its appearance today. Thus, in my > virtualised buster install, i did log out of wayland and logged in as > "system X11 default" (under the wheel on login screen). Then, i was able > to install synaptic and use it, although the gnome-software mentionned > its source being debian-old-oldstable-main. > > I seem to have left it behind since stretch, when i moved to commandline > tools instead. When things got really hairy, i recall having used > aptitude on few occasions, but only after thorough experimentation in > virtualized world, before applying the steps on bare metal. > > But since most of you are on bullseye, with a huge crowd even already > landing in bookworm, this report from an outdated software will most > certainly be neglected. FWIW, i chose to let you know anyway. i haven't tried to use it in several years. the thing i did like to use it for was as an interface to documentation, descriptions of packages and the sections of packages (usually once in a while scanning games to see if there was anything new i'd want to try). once they started making it more difficult to run (various root and permissions games) i decided to stop jumping through those hoops and found out what i wanted via the command line. songbird
Re: Debian home page -> Download link broken:
David Wright wrote: ... > That's just plain wrong. What was added to bookworm, > the current stable release, on Release Day was a an > official number (12 in this instance). Please stop > trying to sow confusion about codenames. ok. songbird
Re: Debian home page -> Download link broken:
David Wright wrote: > songbird wrote: ... > I can't understand that paragraph. Too many "this", "that" > and "it"s to know what refers to what. haha, that's ok, just let it go. >> release notes may not be written and some cases may >> even be forgotten about. > > Which release doesn't have any Notes? Forgotten about > by whom? it isn't the release which happens in testing, when a package is updated in testing there are no release notes for that event. if you are wondering what is going on you look at the changelogs and/or read up on the package itself via whatever means you can. it's sometimes been the case that the only way i've found out about some changes is by doing full downloads of all the source code and doing line-by-line comparisons between versions - not everything that changes is always documented. >> with testing, stuff can happen, like sid, stuff can >> break. that is just how it goes and i'm quite ok with >> that because i also do keep a stable partition (which >> is currently not upgraded yet and won't be until a >> point release or two down the line). my stable is even >> more stable than the released stable. there's nobody >> to force me to upgrade or mysterious software controlled >> by someone else running to mess with my machine (as i do >> not run auto updates). > > That's very conservative, and most people don't have twin > installations as you and I do. You also have years of Debian > experience, and a degree in computing, I believe. Probably > a good candidate for running testing. i've always been willing to take the chance, with only a few significant headaches over the years because of a maintainer making a mistake with a package or me doing something boneheaded. it also helps that what i'm doing with my computer is not very extensive in terms of running some sort of production system. yes, my background is computer science and i spent a fair number of years running mainframes, minis, pcs, etc. i retired at a young age to avoid further years of sitting at deskjobs being essentially an electronic janitor and babysitter. right about when the internet was becoming popular was when i got away from some things so my viewpoint is skewed and some web technologies i pretty much skipped. like currently the cloud is not something i know too much about. ... >> i consider the release process as a whole which >> includes at some point making copies of symlinks to >> the package pool and renaming various pathways or >> copying things as the whole point of making a >> release and then building images and such which do >> include the codename and not using things such as >> "testing", "sid", "experimental" or "rc-buggy" or >> ... > > More nonsense. They don't add/include a codename. > What they do add upon release is the release number. > The codename is the primary collection that is being > built be Debian. The way in which it is built and > maintained depends on its current status, and that > status is reflected, not defined, by the symlinks > pointing to it. So, a few days ago, bookworm became > a Release, obtained the number 12, had the stable > symlink moved to point at it, and now has a policy > for its modification that differs from what it was > before. yes, it could be another way. i realize this. so i could be wrong in other statements. :) >> i don't really think my viewpoint is far from >> the reality of what does happen, but if anyone >> from the release team cares to pipe up i'd listen. > > They shouldn't need to. It's all been documented in > the Debian reference/policy manuals, should you care > to read them. i have at various times, since the terminology is not always consistent you can chase definitions down all sorts of rabbit holes. to me and in the end the release team's interpretation of those documents and their specific tools as written and used are more defining and useful than many policy documents (policy documents are at times out of date and not updated until there is consensus established through practice). my own experiences in doing support systems work was to read the code and see what it was doing and then going back and seeing if the comments or the rest of the framework built around that code were accurate. i'd find a lot of mistakes (which isn't something i ever wanted to run into during something critical). > Cheers, > David. songbird
Re: Debian home page -> Download link broken:
David Wright wrote: > songbird wrote: ... >> except that is a misconception for those who are running >> testing. we're not upgrading to a new release. > > I don't understand. Suite testing was codenamed bookworm until today, > and now testing is codenamed trixie. Why is that not a new release? testing is still testing is it not? they didn't delete it and then create it again. i don't think they'd do something like that, but even if they did how would someone outside the release team know? they just created a new directory structure with the codename and put links to the packages that were the same as testing. it is like taking a snapshot but you don't destroy the original directory. after that point testing and stable diverge as changes are made (under the rules and procedures of the release team and the various software gatekeepers, security team, etc.). you could say that as soon as the first change happens that trixie is underway and i wouldn't argue too much about that at all, but i don't consider it anything other than testing and a release candidate for trixie. it's not officially a stable release for another 24-?? months and as such it isn't really named by me, but others can consider it what they want. it's only the view of the release team that really counts (and their established procedures and tools). it's like the chicken and egg problem applied to making a cake. at some point you start with an empty bowl and then put in ingredients and then at some future point (when the baking is done) you have a cake (when it is released from the pan or even taken from the oven - as some people do eat the cake directly from the pan). flour alone isn't the cake. so let's just say that testing is the bowl which holds the ingredients of the next potential stable release, you can call it what you want but it isn't an official release until the release team kicks it out the door with the codename (or not as perhaps some year we run out of codenames or Debian stops producing official images of any kind or ...). songbird
Re: Debian home page -> Download link broken:
Greg Wooledge wrote: ... > The overwhelming majority of people who track testing think that it's > a rolling release. It's not. It's actually a series of evolving > release candidates, with periods of great disruption interspersed with > periods of relative calm. > > You're clearing replying to someone who thinks it's a single rolling > release, so set your expectations accordingly. yes, we experience it as it happens, which can sometimes be months or even years before the official stable release happens and new images are built. the comment about release candidates is appropriate because that is why such things as RC bugs are filed and attempted to be fixed before a release actually happens, but that release is a stable and official one and not as far as i've ever seen it is not a "release" so calling it a rolling release is a contradiction in terminology. it is not a release, but it is a collection of packages in a certain state of being which can change as new packages migrate from unstable (or via testing-pu or via other means that perhaps i'm not aware of). i just know that for sure it is not "magic". :) someone has to do it and make the upload and other things may come along and make changes (janitor programs are now doing some things, etc.) release notes may not be written and some cases may even be forgotten about. with testing, stuff can happen, like sid, stuff can break. that is just how it goes and i'm quite ok with that because i also do keep a stable partition (which is currently not upgraded yet and won't be until a point release or two down the line). my stable is even more stable than the released stable. there's nobody to force me to upgrade or mysterious software controlled by someone else running to mess with my machine (as i do not run auto updates). can you point me to any official statement from the project as a whole which says that testing is released and there are official images for people to download? i know of daily and weekly builds of the installer and some images but i have never seen any statement from the project as a whole that "testing" is a release candidate and treated as such. yes, it is the basis of the next stable release, but it is not anything more than a pool of packages in a directory structure which can be copied and updated like any other directory. it is, in other words, the collection of packages which are used which are the stable release and not anything else which is the main product of making such a stable release and it is the release team which builds that and puts it all together. as far as i'm concerned it is the release team which has that delegated authority but i guess if they wanted to build "official testing" images or any other collection they surely could, but i'd be a happy little potato doing as i have been and running from the testing viewpoint (which can change from moment to moment). i consider the release process as a whole which includes at some point making copies of symlinks to the package pool and renaming various pathways or copying things as the whole point of making a release and then building images and such which do include the codename and not using things such as "testing", "sid", "experimental" or "rc-buggy" or ... i don't really think my viewpoint is far from the reality of what does happen, but if anyone from the release team cares to pipe up i'd listen. songbird
Re: Debian home page -> Download link broken:
Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Sun, Jun 11, 2023 at 08:12:49AM -0400, The Wanderer wrote: >> The same thing applies to those who track 'stable' by that name. Using >> the symbolic names for the releases, rather than the actual codenames, >> *is semantically different* and the tools *should treat it differently*. > > Using "stable" in your sources.list is idiotic, and you should not do > it. Ever. i understand where you are coming from, but obviously i don't agree as i've been doing it for many years. > This is not a "use at your own risk" scenario, like using "testing". > That's OK for people who choose to accept the responsibility. > > Using "stable" is just a mistake. > > If you're suggesting that the behavior of the tools should change in > some way -- something I am *not* advocating -- then the bext change > would be to make them *reject* any sources.list line that uses "stable". > Inform the user that the use of that label is too dangerous, and that > they must select a specific release to track. no. that's breaking things that work fine for some people. if you keep your installation very simple there is a good chance you can do upgrades without too much fuss or bother. i just recently upgraded my stable partition and it was done without reading the release notes at all. i did have to change some lines in the apt sources list, but otherwise it all went as i would expect for it to go. on thing i do out of habit is only upgrade certain things first (apt, dpkg, core stuff) before i let the rest of the packages go in. sometimes i have to run through a few times but apt-get figures it out eventually or i have to use some flags to get broken packages fixed. my normal system runs about 2500 packages total and i don't do too many complcated things. my stable partition has many fewer packages and i don't do some things on it at all (if i add some package for testing i often remember to remove it and the dependencies so i'm not bloating it). songbird
Re: Debian home page -> Download link broken:
The Wanderer wrote: > On 2023-06-11 at 07:50, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote: ... >> If you track "testing" (something which has been deprecated for a >> while) > > What? Since when? This is the first I remember having heard of this. ditto... > Certainly the "continuously usable testing" thing seems to have not gone > anywhere, or otherwise stalled - but that doesn't mean that testing > isn't usable, or useful, or that tracking it is impractical, or anything > of that nature; just that you have to expect that by doing so you will > occasionally see things break, e.g during library transitions, and have > to wait for those things to be resolved. exactly, as i have always experienced and anticipated. i've been running testing + a few packages from sid for quite a long time. i also keep a stable partition (which is not following a code name either). i understand how those work along with sid. >> then you must expect that it will change very unexpectedly on a >> release and then large changes immediately after as everything else >> catches up with being unfrozen. > > Of course it will. I actually look forward to seeing that happen, and > watching the flood of new package versions come in after a new release. same here. i'm glad the new stable release is out! kudoes to all Debian developers, maintainers and the rest of the Debian community! :) > But that doesn't mean that we should be presented with this opaque "this > thing has changed, so we're going to refuse to update at all till you do > something to approve that change; here's a reference to a man page which > briefly mentions something about the technical details of why this > happens, but doesn't explain anything about how to approve the change, > or point to any other documentation which does explain that". > > We *are already tracking testing*, *by that name*. We *know* that when a > new stable is released, the release codename that is in testing is going > to change. That is *expected*. It is aggravating to see this prompt at > all - let alone to see it again and again, once every few years, and > have to dredge into my memory (since it's been a few years since the > last time I needed the information) for where to look to find the > correct incantation to actually bypass it. gladly someone did refresh my decrepit memory. > The same thing applies to those who track 'stable' by that name. Using > the symbolic names for the releases, rather than the actual codenames, > *is semantically different* and the tools *should treat it differently*. i don't really care how it is treated but if someone is tracking testing then breaking that is expected at times, but also fixes which seem reasonable should be applied and one fix i'd be in favor of is just accepting that change auto- matically for people who are tracking testing and then others who want to fiddle with the codenames can do what they'd like. > I could achieve the same practical result by using the release > codenames, and manually editing sources.list after each release - but > that loses out on the *convenience* factor, as well as being > conceptually inappropriate; if you have something that has to be done > over and over in exactly the same way every time, on a computer, and you > are not automating it, you are Doing It Wrong. Using the symbolic names > should make it possible to avoid those manual steps, and in fact it used > to do just that, but it no longer does. pretty much what i just wrote above in much finer words. :) > As songbird said: it should all "just work". > > I'm actually startled that, judging from the fact that your responses > have been centered on explaining the use of Debian codenames, you seem > to have so completely misinterpreted the objection being raised here. yes, but he is writing for the much wider audience perhaps? it's ok. as someone who's been aware of Debian since "Slink" and running it for a good long time i'm pretty well steeped in things and have tried various scenarios and also tried some other distributions but none really stacked up as well as Debian has. for that it is a big thanks for the many volunteers who've done the work over the years and i hope will continue for many more. :) songbird
Re: Debian home page -> Download link broken:
Tixy wrote: > On Sat, 2023-06-10 at 23:55 -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote: >> Debian's wiki says to use apt-get: >> https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUpgrade. Also see >> https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/uptodate.html . >> >> Maybe it's time for a complete refresh of those documents. > > Or maybe the wiki page should be deleted, or just say go RTFM, i.e. > read the release notes for the release you want to upgrade to. except that is a misconception for those who are running testing. we're not upgrading to a new release. songbird
Re: Debian home page -> Download link broken:
Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Sat, Jun 10, 2023 at 06:52:59PM -0400, songbird wrote: >> = >> # apt-get update > [...] >> Reading package lists... Done >> E: Repository 'http://deb.debian.org/debian-debug testing-debug InRelease' >> changed its 'Codename' value from 'bookworm-debug' to 'trixie-debug' >> N: This must be accepted explicitly before updates for this repository can >> be applied. See apt-secure(8) manpage for details. > > This is not the first time this has happened. You need to run > "apt update" once. This will "accept" the change, whereas "apt-get update" > does not. > > After this one instance of apt, you can go back to apt-get. thanks for the reminder. :) i had to answer the two prompts to accept the changes. i hope in two to three more years i remember this is needed. songbird
Re: Debian home page -> Download link broken:
David Christensen wrote: > debian-user: > > $ date > Sat Jun 10 14:50:40 PDT 2023 > > > The "Download" link on the Debian home page is currently broken: > > https://www.debian.org/ > > -> Download ... there are also other artifacts happening which i hope will eventually be corrected as the release process gets completed. = # apt-get update Hit:1 http://http.us.debian.org/debian sid InRelease Get:2 http://http.us.debian.org/debian testing InRelease [108 kB] Get:3 http://deb.debian.org/debian-debug testing-debug InRelease [32.1 kB] Hit:4 http://security.debian.org testing-security InRelease Hit:5 http://deb.debian.org/debian-debug unstable-debug InRelease Reading package lists... Done E: Repository 'http://deb.debian.org/debian-debug testing-debug InRelease' changed its 'Codename' value from 'bookworm-debug' to 'trixie-debug' N: This must be accepted explicitly before updates for this repository can be applied. See apt-secure(8) manpage for details. E: Repository 'http://http.us.debian.org/debian testing InRelease' changed its 'Codename' value from 'bookworm' to 'trixie' N: This must be accepted explicitly before updates for this repository can be applied. See apt-secure(8) manpage for details. = i don't use the codenames in my apt sources list because i do not want to deal with changes like this happening. it should all just work[tm]... songbird
Re: Debian home page -> Download link broken:
Peter Ehlert wrote: ... > have a little patience > https://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?p=773925#p773925 :) i have that. :) thanks for the link... songbird
Re: "dpkg-reconfigure" dash no longer works
Greg Wooledge wrote: ... > Huh. Well, that's rather important, isn't it? > > The package maintainers seem to have forgotten to TELL us this, at least > in the NEWS.Debian.gz file, which still says only: > > unicorn:/usr/share/doc/dash$ zless NEWS.Debian.gz > dash (0.5.5.1-2.1) unstable; urgency=low > > * The default system shell (/bin/sh) has been changed to dash for > new installations. When upgrading existing installations, the > system shell will not be changed automatically. > * One can see what the current default system shell on this machine > is by running 'readlink /bin/sh'. > * Change it by running 'dpkg-reconfigure dash'. > > -- Luk Claes Wed, 22 Jul 2009 17:23:20 +0200 did you notice the date? that's some time ago... which might be why it wasn't thought of as a change for now. i vaguely recall this. > I've updated the wiki, so at least we have that much warning for users, > not that many people will read it. songbird
Re: 60-serial.rules, broken
wrote:
...
> Perhaps you have a ~/.bash_profile, which then would take precedence over
> your ~/.profile (people who want to have both usually source ~/.profile
> from ~/.bash_profile. Writing shell-independent code is left as an exercise
> to the reader, though). Perhaps your PATH is not exported. Perhaps your
> .profile isn't in your HOME. Perhaps your shell ain't a login shell (it's
> possibly started by the DE monstrosity du jour). I'd start debugging it
> by putting some "echo hi >> /tmp/debug-shell-startup" or something, and
> putting it also into ~/.bashrc.
i use the MATE desktop but i think this would work for
Gnome too.
what i have set up for when i fire up the desktops is in
my .bashrc i check to see which directory i am in (which
is an indication of which project that terminal is working
on) and from there i test and set various environment
variables. it is all in my .bashrc file. when i save the
layout of the desktops and then restart the computer the
various terminals come up in the respective directories
i was in when i saved (or shutdown using the menu), if i
do not shutdown using the menu then the layouts are not
changed (which is perfect for my usage because not always
do i want to make changes to my desktop layouts). so the
difference is between using the menu shutdown and the
command line shutdown from root (which is how i shut down
99.99% of the time).
$ cwd=`pwd`
if [ "$HOME/rogo/project" == "${cwd}" -o \
"$HOME/src/github/project" == "${cwd}" -o \
"$HOME/src/github/similar_project" == "${cwd}" ] ; then
set stuff...
fi
etc.
i like that i don't have to remember which environment
variables to fiddle with and that i can just change the
context and content of a terminal starting up just by
changing to the right directory and then shutting down
using the menu - so if i need to change back to working
on an old project (as long as i've not removed the
things from my .bashrc) it is a simple adjustment.
this lets my brain cells get used for remembering
other things and scrolling through .bashrc can remind
me of other things i may want to change (some variables
i comment out different versions for debugging vs normal
production settings).
songbird
Re: Bash invocation, was Re: 60-serial.rules, broken
Greg Wooledge wrote: ... > I must have said this a hundred times, but... it depends on HOW you login. yes! login vs. non-login. the rest left in because it is useful and notable. > The only times .profile is read are when you have a login shell (from a > pure text console login, or an ssh login, or something like "su - gene"), > or if some other file that IS read dots it in. > > If your changes to .profile are not being seen at login time, that means > you aren't using one of the above -- OR, something is overwriting your > change later. > > In your previous emails, you've mentioned a Trinity Desktop Environment. > If that's how you login (a graphical Display Manager brought in as part > of TDE), then it's no surprise that .profile is not being read. > > See <https://wiki.debian.org/Xsession> assuming your TDE + Display Manager > setup still uses a Debian X session. > > If your setup does NOT use a Debian X session, then I would revert to the > traditional configuration -- create a .xsession file, put your changes > in it (which may simply be dotting in .profile, or not, depending on > what's in .profile), and then make sure it executes the startup command > for TDE at the end. Which means you have to figure out what that startup > command IS. > > The tricky parts of the traditional configuration are figuring out how > to invoke your WM or desktop environment, and figuring out whether you > can dot in .profile, or whether you have to duplicate parts of it. The > key is that .xsession is NOT executed in a terminal environment. So, > if it tries to write any messages to stdout, you won't see them. If > it tries to call stty or any other terminal-oriented program, it will > fail. In a lot of cases, you can simply ignore these failures, but > without knowing what's in your .profile (and all the files it dots in), > it's impossible to give specific advice. > > Finally, remember that .xsession is run by /bin/sh, not by your login > shell. So, if you've got bash syntax in .profile (or anything it dots > in, such as .bashrc), then you cannot safely dot it in from .xsession. songbird
Re: Firefox resource utilization (was Re: A case for supporting antiquated hardware, was Re: A hypervisor for a headless server?)
Max Nikulin wrote: ... > I believe, web site creators should be blamed more aggressively than > browser developers for RAM requirements of contemporary web applications. no kidding, rather poor design in many web sites these days, loading and reloading images, large images for little purpose, videos which don't really show or say much, etc. my biggest peeves in recent times is login pages which are full of stuff (when all i want to do is login. don't make it a mess which takes too long to load up. just let me login, ok? grrr!) and pages which want me to accept their cookies but are so full of stuff if i click too soon i get an error, so i'm having to wait a few moments before i can click. songbird
Re: Weird behaviour on System under high load
David Christensen wrote: ... > Measuring actual power supply output and system usage would involve > building or buying suitable test equipment. The cost would be non-trivial. ... it depends upon how accurate you want to be and how much power. for my system it was a simple matter of buying a reasonably sized battery backup unit which includes in it's display the amount of power being drawn in watts. on sale the backup unit cost about $150 USD. if i want to see what something draws i have a power cord set up to use for that and just plug it in and watch the display as it operates. if the device is a computer part i can plug it in to my motherboard or via usb or ... as long as it gets done with a grounding strip and i do the power turn off and turn back on as is appropriate for the device (and within ratings of my power supply). also use this setup to figure out how much power the various wall warts are eating. :( switches on all of them are worth the expense. songbird
Re: python3-uno
Klaus Jantzen wrote: ... > So far the upgrades seem to be OK; the upgraded system (Bullseye) works > without any problems. > > Does that mean that dpkg has a problem that might result in problems > with upgrades in the future? > > Can I do anything to avoid that problem? some upgrades may need more than others so you can do a dry run try for the next level of upgrade and see if that is the issue. [since i do not use apt i'm not sure what the magic words are but for apt-get the difference is checked by using apt-get -s dist-upgrade vs. apt-get -s upgrade another question to ponder is what an apt-get check reports. songbird
Re: Learning resources and material-wise, which distro has an easier learning curve - Debian or Arch?
Byung-Hee HWANG wrote: ... > Go with Gnome Desktop. Gnome is easy and friendly. > > Also i am using Gnome Desktop under Debian 11 Bullseye. :) i'm running testing with bits of unstable and just tagging along on this thread because i feel a bit chatty this morning so a bit of story time and preferences from my experiences so far with Debian and desktop environments. if we're going to plug a different desktop with a simple interface (as indicated by the OP) i'll put one in for the MATE desktop. it is fairly consistent for many years and a lot more simple for my pea brain to understand and get things done. the other aspect i was after was being able to handle lesser versions of hardware that could at times not do as much as i might have wanted but it did work ok until i could finally upgrade my hardware. having spent many hours years ago when various desktops were being developed to learn KDE and get my desktop set up exactly how i liked it and then they changed it to something i didn't like and so i switched to GNOME and went through the large amount of work to get that set up and how i liked it and again had that desktop change to something i did not like again (in both the KDE and GNOME cases it was also using more resources than my older machine at that time could reliably handle). so then MATE came along and has done exactly what i wanted it to do. stay simple and not mess up my layouts and preferences too much as it updates. thankfully i have not had to do much more fiddling around or searching for another desk- top since. i have not had to try the other more simple desktops, but i probably could manage it, after all a simple console text terminal was adequate for many years on a bunch of different machines through 15 years of work even if i also could have multiple terminals open on a Sun machine. thank ghods for a good local network all those years (one advantage of working at the university back then). i really was spoiled by that and did not really appreciate it until i was offline more and forced to use dialup lines and modems all over again. > Sincerely, Byung-Hee :) songbird
Re: Resolved (was: Re: OT: Using my (new) cable based ISP with their modem in bridge mode and my existing router)
rhkra...@gmail.com wrote: ... > ... Sometimes I feel > like an idiot. > > All seems well. :) i've had days like that... glad you figured it out. completely OT from your issue, but today i finally upgraded my stable partition from whatever it was on (last major update was probably a year or more ago). glad to say that with a bit of heavy hammer hitting i got it all to update and than as usual it did the os-prober at the end which was ok, but since my /boot partition on that setup did not have the right efi/EFI/ it was not able to immediately switch into my refind menu like i am used to doing (because i did not install refind on my stable partition). so of course i go off to do that and then at the end it asks about putting stuff on my efi partition and i say yes and then a second later i'm wondering if i just overwrote my refind configuration file. after a bit of nosing around i could breath a bit better because no it did not destroy my config so i was all set. so you are not the only one here who can mess up something. :) songbird
Re: disk usage for /usr/lib on bullseye
David Wright wrote: ... > It seems a bluff was called. Anyway, I got > 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 1 not upgraded. > as it seems bookworm's libfreetype6 was upgraded overnight. that was the only upgrade i saw this morning for my testing partition. > And I'm not brave; the system was installed last night for the > umpteenth time, this partition having been used to test the d-i > for bookwork-RC1 several times for different purposes. if you're running testing you're a step further towards chaos than those who run stable, but it's ok if you've been running it long enough to know what to expect. for me that is the most important thing, i know what i can expect and so far Debian has been consistent in meeting those expectations. songbird
Re: I need help with my var partition.
Maureen L Thomas wrote: > Unfortunately I cannot install anything. I used the command line and > the app but neither of them will work. I have no idea what to do next. > I used su and sudo first. It just keeps saying it cannot connect with > the base from which I get updates, etc. I used the reinstall on brasero > and it just said that it was up to date. I am so confused. at this point i think it is more time efficient to install to a new partition and then work on restoring the data for each main program you use. if you do not have good backups this is not fun, but it does teach a lesson to keep good backups. i have done a full recovery on a running system where i accidentally deleted my entire /var but it wasn't quick and i did have a current list of all packages installed so i could reinstall each of them. it's not an experience i ever hope to have to do again. since the version of apt was also wrong and wouldn't work i had to go back to using dpkg repeatedly in a loop of all packages until the dependencies would all be installed and then it got them all up to date at last. it would have been much quicker in the end had i just set up a new partition and installed from scratch. songbird
Re: Request for guidance to output(print, i.e.) mouse movements, key press, perepherals insert, etc., on a terminal
Yassine Chaouche wrote: > Le 4/25/23 à 06:00, Susmita/Rajib a écrit : > >> >> Try looking at "evtest". >> >> [ ... ] >> >> Raed the manual of evtest. There are very little >> example code lines. evtest isn't installed in the Official Debian >> GNU/Linux Live 11.6.0 lxde 2022-12-17T11:46. > > > I second evtest which is very straightforward. > Upon running evtest (with root privileges) > you will be presented with a menu of all devices it can monitor. > You just have to type the associated number to select that device. > > Of course it's not pre-installed in the live version of Debian, > or any debian, > but you can install it just fine. > > $ sudo apt-get install evtest > [...] > $ sudo evtest note this from the package description: "evtest is now in maintenance mode and doesn't support all the features of the latest kernels; evemu-record from the evemu-tools package should be used instead. " songbird
Re: shame on me (was: Re: No fool like an old fool (debian installation probs))
DdB wrote: ... > I notice, that, even though i did change the name of the sda2 partition, > the PARTLABEl remained unchanged. > This proves my previous post wrong and i am sorry for the confusion, > this may have caused. You were correct all along. > DdB yes, but i also recall you saying something about zeroing a device and if you did that by accident to an entire device and not just a partition (that didn't have the boot/uefi stuff on it) then that would indeed clear any labels. so sometimes without a clear record of what has been done you do find yourself looking at a new device label and it's not fun to correct if all of your scripts and procedure are set up another way. songbird
Re: is nft running? how do I get info?
Bonno Bloksma wrote: ... > Why, now that we are at bookworm, is the nftables service not enabled by > default? With a default ruleset that pretty much leaves it all open but is a > starting point. > If we do not want that, then at least the default config should contain a > warning about first enabling the service or scripting something to have it > working (after a reboot). > > I think this is the first time I have come across something in Debian that > after being installed by default does nothing, even when provided with a > valid config file at the proper location. > I consider that a bug. > > Here is something similar. > Consider opening your door with a key. Every time you open the door with the > key it opens. All is well, you bought the cylinder and key for the lock at a > very good locksmith. You told him you had been installing cylinders In doors > for years and you were able to insert this cylinder in the door. > Until sometime later you find out the door never locks, it is always open, > that is why you could always enter. > It turns out you first need to enable the cylinder before it did something > useful with the key provided. > That was something completely new, you never heard of it before, neither do I > though. ;-) > > Bonno Bloksma not everyone wants a firewall installed on their system (non-desktop users or embedded systems being two examples that easily come to mind). i think for most desktop installs there should be a minimal firewall installed but then you get into the issue of which one? personally i run ufw. songbird
Re: is it imminent that bookworm becomes stable?
Peter Ehlert wrote: ... > Now that you have been properly scolded. > ... > Weekend of June 10 if all goes according to current plan... songbird
Re: graphic cards was efi problem
mick.crane wrote: ... > on reboot after installation of bookworm PC says no OS found. you'd have to check the installer logs in /var/log/installer (for that install) to see where it failed. > Changed Dell f2/f12 menu to boot legacy CDrom and bookworm installation > succeeds, has automagically set display to 3840x2160 and hasn't crashed > as yet so we see how it goes. good luck! :) songbird
[SOLVED]: old memory sticks
songbird wrote: ... all set thanks for the reply. songbird
Re: efi problem
Charles Curley wrote: > On Sun, 23 Apr 2023 16:34:03 - (UTC) > Curt wrote: > >> Install grml-rescueboot > > I just tried it. It may work with a grml CD ISO; I didn't try it. The > code builds the grub.cfg entry correctly, and that works. But grub > refused to boot the debian netinst image I provided. i'm sorry for not going back and re-reading everything (about to head outside for the rest of the day). do you have a spare USB stick that will hold the netinst image? i suspect you may have not copied it simply as the directions in the installation guide recommends or done something strange and it may just be simpler to try a USB boot instead. that's my thoughts at this point. hope you will make better progress on this soon. :) songbird
old memory sticks (was Re: /etc/fstab question (problem)?
David Wright wrote: ... > That must be nice. I don't know what it might have cost. I'm afraid > I only use cast-offs. The oldest has ½GB memory. i have some older memory sticks and chips that i will gladly send to anyone who has older machines. the only condition i would have for the gift is to pass them on to anyone else who might need them as i'm not going to "part out" the list to one item at a time. so you get the whole small pile of sticks/chips. first come, first served. send me an e-mail (to this address) with your mailing address. let me see what i have (i'm in need of a distraction this morning so here's the list as best i can see them - i'm not a PC or memory guru so i don't know exactly what these are now as it has been quite some time since i pulled them and aside from what is right on the chips all i can say is that they were working when i pulled them): (pins not as well plated with gold) 2 pcs - IC side markings HYUNDAI KOREA, 8 IC's, (markings on IC HY5117400A J-70 9629A KOREA) - 1 other side markings ST-102A HYM532410AM-70 6H82AA - 2 other side markings ST-103 HYM532410AM-70 6H82AA - 72 pins if the numbers next to the pins are right (these ones are heavier and have a nice layer of gold on the pins compared to the ones above i'd say they are works of art) 2 pcs - IC side markings MADE IN JAPAN, 8 IC's both marked QQ18UU 94-VO HB56A13 2BV-7B 9419 - other side marking on both was SAN-TM94VO one marked AD, other marked BB - 72 pins 2 pcs - came from a COMPAC pc, 8 IC's on one side (the B might be an 8) both marked MTBLSDT864AG-10EC7 PC100-222-620, one says 64MB, SYNCH, 100MHz, CL2 other doesn't both have part number sticker and other numbers on them - i'm not putting them on here... - 84 pins 1 pc - 8 IC's on each side, very thin, printed on tag: MT1GLSTDT464AG-10BC4 9829 DA ST 617054 PC100-323-620 the printing is very light on the ICs, i can barely see them (as best i can make it out) 9828 C USA MT 48LC2M8A1 TG -8B S - 84 pins 1 pc - 8 IC's total more pins than 84 (i ain't counting them) INFINEON printed on tag: HYS64D32300HU-5-C C3E53318 Assembled in Malaysia 256MB, DDR, 400, CL3 PC3200U-30330-A0 songbird
Re: efi problem
mick.crane wrote: > On 2023-04-23 00:56, songbird wrote: >> mick.crane wrote: >>> I suspect the GPU is suspect because there are small blocks of pixels >>> appearing where they aren't wanted. >>> I'd like to re-install the OS as I've got copies of everything I >>> think. >>> Just to see if it's maybe a driver issue. >>> Thing is I can't get the f12 options screen of the PC to let me boot >>> from a CD in this EFI mode what's grub done. >>> How can I boot from CD in this EFI mode? >> >> what does efibootmgr say when you run it from the >> root prompt? >> >> mine lists the CD drive and if i change the boot >> order to put that first it will boot from that device. >> >> man efibootmgr > root@pumpkin:/home/mick# efibootmgr > BootCurrent: 0007 > Timeout: 1 seconds > BootOrder: 0008,,000A,0003,0004,0007,0001,0002 > Boot* USB Storage Device > Boot0001 debian > Boot0002 grubx64-ef5 > Boot0003 Onboard NIC > Boot0004 Diskette Drive > Boot0005 Onboard NIC > Boot0007* debian > Boot0008* CD/DVD/CD-RW Drive > Boot000A* P1: KINGSTON SA400S37240G > > Obv. I've installed on this Dell Precision T3600 before, it may have > been from a flash drive or it may have been from a CD. > but likely CD. > mick@pumpkin:~$ lspci > 00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation Xeon E5/Core i7 DMI2 (rev 07) > > Is there some way I can say "boot Boot0008 please"? yes, man efibootmgr would have told you: efibootmgr -o 0008,,000A,0003,0004,0007,0001,0002 and then reboot. of course, if you want the above order different you can change it as you wish. boot current can be ignored for the moment. check it after you reboot to make sure it has changed to what you want it to be. boot next may sometimes be useful (see man page). in your case using # efibootmgr -n 0008 would set 0008 as the next time (and one time use only) boot entry. but if you want this to be a permanent change you have to set it using the -o option. as an example of adding a new one - sometimes grub updates wipe out my refind entry so i have to put it back in using: efibootmgr -c -L Debian_Refind -l "\EFI\BOOT\BOOTX64.EFI" and then i set it as my preferred first one: efibootmgr -o 0,1,5,6,7 of course my list is different than yours... songbird
Re: Gnome desktop environment
on agent for PolicyKit-1 ii mate-polkit-common 1.26.1-1amd64 MATE authentication agent for PolicyKit-1 (common files) ii mate-screensaver 1.26.1-1amd64 MATE screen saver and locker ii mate-screensaver-common 1.26.1-1all MATE screen saver and locker (common files) ii mate-sensors-applet 1.26.0-1amd64 Display readings from hardware sensors in your MATE panel ii mate-sensors-applet-common 1.26.0-1all Display readings from hardware sensors in your MATE panel (common files) ii mate-session-manager 1.26.0-1amd64 Session manager of the MATE desktop environment ii mate-settings-daemon 1.26.0-1amd64 daemon handling the MATE session settings ii mate-settings-daemon-common 1.26.0-1all daemon handling the MATE session settings (common files) ii mate-system-monitor 1.26.0-1amd64 Process viewer and system resource monitor for MATE ii mate-system-monitor-common 1.26.0-1all Process viewer and system resource monitor for MATE (common files) ii mate-terminal1.26.0-1amd64 MATE terminal emulator application ii mate-terminal-common 1.26.0-1all MATE terminal emulator application (common files) ii mate-themes 3.22.23-1 all Official themes for the MATE desktop ii mate-tweak 22.10.0-2 all MATE desktop tweak tool ii mate-user-guide 1.26.0-1all User documentation for MATE Desktop Environment ii mate-utils 1.26.0-1amd64 MATE desktop utilities ii mate-utils-common1.26.0-1all MATE desktop utilities (common files) use at your own discretion. :) songbird
Re: efi problem
mick.crane wrote: > I suspect the GPU is suspect because there are small blocks of pixels > appearing where they aren't wanted. > I'd like to re-install the OS as I've got copies of everything I think. > Just to see if it's maybe a driver issue. > Thing is I can't get the f12 options screen of the PC to let me boot > from a CD in this EFI mode what's grub done. > How can I boot from CD in this EFI mode? what does efibootmgr say when you run it from the root prompt? mine lists the CD drive and if i change the boot order to put that first it will boot from that device. man efibootmgr songbird
Re: gitification (was Re: /etc/fstab question (problem)?
Jeremy Ardley wrote: ... > I have not used these, but there seem to be some work-arounds for > storing metadata in/with git > > lfs has the ability to script xattr handling > > https://git-lfs.github.com/ i'll look at that one and see if it brings things to mind that i've already messed with it before. sometimes i go looking and do try things, but my recent few months have been busy with other projects. um, no, i don't want large files being shipped off or linked to some other service. that's not what my gripe is about at all. > These applications work directly with metadata and can be scripted into > the git process: > > Metastore: https://github.com/przemoc/metastore > > Git-meta: https://github.com/chasinglogic/git-meta i've dabbled with that one but not gone further. > None of these will handle NTFS Alternate Data Streams, so archive > operations between windows and linux are guaranteed to lose data and > metadata. i don't do stuff with Windows or NTFS any longer so that doesn't matter to me, i just want file attributes copied and restored properly. songbird
Re: gitification (was Re: /etc/fstab question (problem)?
Stefan Monnier wrote: ... > BTW, the `bup` tool does add some of the needed functionality > (e.g. storing metadata), but it's not developed with an eye towards > merging some of that extra functionality into Git, and it doesn't aim to > be a "generic file storage tool" either :-( i tried bup for a while but ended up just going back to using tar as my backups and depending upon other factors i may use git or not during some development but ultimately i end up ditching git. songbird
Re: gitification (was Re: /etc/fstab question (problem)?
David Christensen wrote: ... > Please describe your use-case(s), what the requirements are and why, and > how Git is failing. i require maintaining an accurate record of the file and it's attributes - i consider that a part of the reason the file exists to begin with (otherwise why have a different file at all?). if you change a file, do a git commit then go back later and do a git restore of a different version it will not restore the file attributes of that version. so while i expect to see the right date and time stamp on a file that has been restored it isn't what happens. and no, i don't considering catering to make being broken or needing to use a time stamp to keep track of changed file a requirement, if i personally need to rebuild a project and i'm using git i would make sure to have things properly cleaned up so that it would work without me having to not properly record the file attributes (or to restore them if i need to use a different version). in my recent case of git screwing me over i had a series of files in several directories all with proper dates and time stamps and i forgot about git being a git and did a git restore and every subdirectory was corrupted and i had to go back and restore them again (and then i removed that project from using git so i'd not do it again). songbird
Re: gitification (was Re: /etc/fstab question (problem)?
Stefan Monnier wrote: ... > FWIW, I think it makes perfect sense for Git to ignore such metadata > in the context of the intended use of Git (i.e. tracking source code). it didn't make sense to me then and still doesn't but whatever... :) > But I wish there was a concerted effort to develop/maintain "Git as > a general purpose data storage tool" where various things can be tweaked > depending on the use-case, such as storing metadata, trying to handle > terabyte sized repositories, hash-splitting large files/directories, ... > > It could be a sister project of Git. there are other attempts which are done for it and process flows for me but i'd really prefer just a simple flag or environment variable i could set which would do it instead so then i'd be able to get rid of the gyrations. but it really sux to get a directory structure set up how i'd like it and the forget that git has this effect and then come back some time later and see the mess it's made. songbird
Re: gitification (was Re: /etc/fstab question (problem)?
Max Nikulin wrote: > On 20/04/2023 19:10, songbird wrote: >>one of the worst design decisions i've come across in >> the modern era was the lack of git respecting file metadata. > > In the case of git you can get commit time from git log. i do not want commit time, i want the file attributes to not be f'd with. i know what all you've written below but it does not apply to what i want or how i use those tools and i consider git broken that it caters to broken tools and intentionally then has to screw up information which i consider both useful and critical to how i do things. ... > Version control systems update modification time on operations like "git > checkout" or "git pull" to allow build systems, relying on timestamp > comparison (make), to recompile changed files even if source tree is > switched to an older version. to me that's broken and wrong. if i need to remake a project then i clean it out and remake it i don't rely upon anything else to do it and that is also what compiler caching is for if the project is large enough where it makes that much of a difference. i don't force another tool to destroy information. > Some build systems make decisions based on file hashes, not their > modification times. It may require a daemon watching file changes to > avoid recalculation of all hashes on each build. So such approach is a > kind of trade-off. not a choice i agree with and so i have to work around it for my purposes. songbird
Re: /etc/fstab question (problem)?
Default User wrote: ... > Well, now I am totally confused. > > I had hoped for, and really expected, an easy, obvious, intuitive > solution. But I guess that may be a distant memory of the good old > days, before [insert string of four-letter words here] like dbus, > systemd, and Gnome 3. And when partitions were named /dev/hda5, not > 6a105a72-f5d5-441b-b926-1e405151ee84. > > Sigh. ... i use labels on all of my partitions and give them a legible name. those are what i use in my fstab and also in any grub or refind configs. i hate UUIDS. i do understand what they're for and know about them, but i do not need them for the simple stuff i'm doing. songbird
