date:20080206

Re: AW: Shale Status

2008-02-06 Thread samju


I could not resist to post.
You talk about
* motivation. What do You think about new subproject Shale-RCP?
* Seam similar architecture. Which  Shale concepts did Seam implemented? 
Was Shale created to elaborate JCreator?

Sam Julian


Greg Reddin-4 wrote:
 
 Shale is an open source project. It will never *die* unless the ASF
 dies or kills it and nobody copies the code over to some other
 repository. That's one of the main reasons we like open source. It's
 not dependent on the existence of any person, company, or
 organization.
 
 It's funny how the discussion that occurred here and on the MyFaces
 list has created all this buzz about Shale is dying and all that
 crap. The biggest problem we have (and I'm part of the problem) is
 that new people are not stepping up to the plate to contribute to the
 development process and many of the existing committers are doing
 other things and not contributing as much to the project.
 
 Of course, the project has reached a level of stability where no
 contribution is required to make the codebase inherently useful. Also
 similar architectures like Seam and Facelets are taking some
 Shale(ish) concepts and implementing them in other ways (with
 corporate support) thus making parts of Shale redundant. As Gary said
 some of the concepts of Shale are being introduced at spec level for
 the next gen of JSF and might make Shale even more redundant. So the
 motivation for people to step in and sling code is not necessarily
 huge - especially given some of the barriers to entry that are
 inherent in open source.
 
 I know the tone of this message is a bit short, but please don't
 detect any sense of anger or frustration in my thoughts. I'm just
 trying to explain that inactivity != death. We're not like an infant
 whose arms and legs are always in motion unless he's asleep. We're
 more like old guys who sit on the porch and don't move unless our beer
 glass is empty :-) If we all stop committing for 6 months or even a
 year it does not mean the project is not being supported. In fact I'm
 using parts of it in production every day. You can bet if I find a bug
 I'll fix it - I just haven't found any yet in the stuff I'm using. The
 fact that I haven't committed to any of the other parts just means my
 time has been spent on other things (like watching an infant
 constantly move his arms and legs for no particular reason).
 
 I guess the bottom line is that Shale is not dead. If anybody is
 unhappy with a lack of activity then, by all means, we welcome
 activity.
 
 Greg
 
 

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Re: AW: Shale Status

2008-02-06 Thread Greg Reddin

On Feb 6, 2008 4:12 AM, samju [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 * Seam similar architecture. Which  Shale concepts did Seam implemented?
 Was Shale created to elaborate JCreator?

Seam implements the annotations piece which is also in play for JSF
2.0. I think Seam also implements some of the concepts in the
ActionController. I can't remember about the Remoting. Some of the
ideas of the Dialog components are also present in Seam, but I don't
think they've taken it as far.

Greg

AW: AW: Shale Status

2008-02-06 Thread Bernhard Slominski

 -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
 Von: Greg Reddin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Gesendet: Dienstag, 5. Februar 2008 18:39
 An: dev@shale.apache.org
 Betreff: Re: AW: Shale Status
 

 We're not like an infant
 whose arms and legs are always in motion unless he's asleep. We're
 more like old guys who sit on the porch and don't move unless our beer
 glass is empty :-) 

Greg, that's great! 
Well maybe there is some step between the baby the and old man, so some 
movement without getting beer (hard to think though)!

Seriously: I think this question has been answered
 - Shale itsself
 Will it disappear as an Apache Top Level project?

Shale is used, is needed and is not dead!

Bernhard

[Fwd: Re: Shale Roadmap]

2008-02-06 Thread linux.eavilesa

Greg,

I've been following the mailing list as you point and I just wanted to clarify
the situation the project is now.

Referring to the road map, I was trying to put on the table the main goal of
the project as JSF 2.0 and other projects in the same Apache are taking
advantage of the Shale ideas and concepts.

Although PMC defines project 'leaders' everybody knows that with the Craig
McClanahan's leave the project has decreased its activity. With no project
leader it will be difficult to continue giving support and evolving.

Thanks.

Esteve

On Feb 6, 2008 1:21 PM, linux.eavilesa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I think that the main reason why is the fact that there is not a well
defined road map now for the project and many of as have bitten to use
Shale in front of other frameworks.

Well, we do sort of have a roadmap (or at least a tool for creating one):

https://issues.apache.org/struts/browse/SHALE?report=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.project:roadmap-panel

As you can see we're pretty close to a release. All that remains is
some people to complete the few remaining 1.0.5 tickets and do the
release work.

· Define the project team organization, mainly the project leader and
the development team.

The Shale PMC is responsible for these kinds of decisions. Apache
projects don't have a single leader. Rather, they are led by the
people who do the work - namely the PMC. The best way to get involved
is continued participation in the mailing lists (a similar discussion
is happening on the dev list so you should sign up for that as well)
and adding some patches to the Jira tickets.

· Determine the release of the stable version (date and who will lead it)

I think 1.0.5 could easily become a stable (GA) version if we can get
it out the door. Since the work is done by volunteers we don't have
dates for the releases. It will happen when someone is motivated
enough and has time to do it.

· Analyze each module and decide which must eliminated and which is
worth keeping alive

Search the archives for info on this. Some discussion along that line
has already taken place. For example, we have decided to discontinue
support for Shale-Tiles in favor of the MyFaces Tomahawk Tiles 2 view
handler. Other things were discussed as well but no firm decisions
were made.

There seems to be a lot of interest in seeing Shale move forward. I
hope some of that interest will generate new activity.
Greg

---BeginMessage---
On Feb 6, 2008 1:21 PM, linux.eavilesa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: