RE: [digitalradio] Pskmail Server in U.S.
The first mult-protocol pskmail gateway is now in testing. At DA5UWG we have an XNet server running on the pskmail server, which functions as a pskmail/AX25 gateway to pactor transport links on 20/15m , to the db0pdf packet digipeater, and to the IGate packet network. 73, Rein PA0R -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Rud Merriam k5...@arrl.net Gesendet: 18.05.09 02:19:24 An: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Betreff: RE: [digitalradio] Pskmail Server in U.S. I'll have to agree with Russell that I have not seen hostility here toward packet. If I may offer some constructive criticism, not meant as an attack. When you start a message with what you have is nice but WE have... you are likely to engender a defensive reaction. Addressing the issue of packet, you certainly are aware that better protocols exist for use on HF. That is one of the goals of ham radio to experiment and develop new technologies. PSKMail is a very positive illustration of this. They created one means of providing a messaging capability that has evolved to utilize new capabilities as they became available. The NBEMS is similarly positioned to lever new developments. Packet has technical shortcomings that have been addressed by other protocols. Why not take advantage of the newer capabilities? - 73 - Rud Merriam K5RUD ARES AEC Montgomery County, TX http://TheHamNetwork.net -Original Message- *From:* Charles Brabham [mailto:n5...@uspacket.org] *Sent:* Sunday, May 17, 2009 3:45 PM *To:* digitalradio@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* Re: [digitalradio] Pskmail Server in U.S. Group members will have to forgive a few members here who appear to harbor some personal hostility regarding the SkipNets, and Packet radio in general. To find out more about the SkipNets without getting flames stirred up here, please contact me off-list for details. As it stands today, the Skipnets transport miscellaneous bulletin traffic to keep the system exercised. There is some personal messaging, but there is a great deal of underutilized capacity for more point-to-point messaging between amateurs. No non-ham or 3rd-party traffic is transported by the Skipnets, but ham-to-ham communications are definately encouraged. A new HF network roughly modeled on the SkipNets is currently under development, but the first servers will probably not appear for some months yet. There are still numerous issues to resolve. In the mean- time, participation in the SkipNets are a good way to get up to speed on the basic concepts behind a global, independent, all-ham radio communications network. Again, due to the hostility here, please take all comments and questions off-list. Contact me personally at: n5...@uspacket.org - Or stop by at http://www.uspacket.org where there is a forum. 73 DE Charles, N5PVL -- http://pa0r.blogspirit.com Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Pages at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked Recommended digital mode software: Winwarbler, FLDIGI, DM780, or Multipsk Logging Software: DXKeeper or Ham Radio Deluxe. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:digitalradio-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:digitalradio-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: digitalradio-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [digitalradio] Pskmail Server in U.S.
Nine or so Pskmail servers in the continental US? That's a good start, but I will remind the group that the Packet ( SkipNet ) network has more servers than that on just one of several frequencies where we operate every day. No eMail is carried by the Packet network, which I consider to be a plus. On the other hand, the SkipNet carries peer-to-peer messaging at a much higher speed than Pskmail can, with greater spectral efficiency. I've looked at Pskmail and am impressed, it is an excellent system. It is unfortunate that Packet is ignored or dissed here though, for no rational reason. Packet works just as well, and in some respects it works much better. One area where Packet is more fuctional is in the number of areas served. There are a good deal more SkipNet stations on the air every day, serving a greater variety of locations. Contrary to popularly expressed belief, HF Packet is a solid performer on the air. To illustrate, note that my station located at the southern tip of Texas exchanges messages every day with another SkipNet station located 25 miles in from the Canadian border, and has routinely done so throughout the solar minimum. Is it smart to develop and utilize the Pskmail network? - Yes, most definately! Is it smart to dis and ignore the SkipNet which is faster, serves many more locations and is more spectrally efficient? - I'll leave that for the reader to consider. 73 DE Charles Brabham, N5PVL
Re: [digitalradio] Pskmail Server in U.S.
Thanks Rein, I was hopeing you would step up to this. Thanks Yesterday is HISTORY. Tomorrow is a MYSTERY. Today is a GIFT! Thats why its called the PRESENT! IN GOD WE TRUST Russell Blair (NC5O) Skype-Russell.Blair Hell Field #300 DRCC #55 30m Dig-group #693 --- On Sun, 5/17/09, Rein Couperus r...@couperus.com wrote: From: Rein Couperus r...@couperus.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Pskmail Server in U.S. To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 7:39 AM I would gladly discuss with you how we can make the systems work together, with the ultimate goal to increase efficiency and service coverage of both... As I cannot find any usable information about SkipNet (other than the generic definition of several flavours of overlay networks with skipnet routing) I would be interested to know what you are actually doing in that area Pskmail is presently an internet or LAN access system for HF, i.e. it uses existing internet infrastructure as a transport medium wherever possible, and it provides efficient 'last 3000 Miles' HF connectivity to various internet services like email, web access, twitter etc.+ fully compatible HF APRS messaging and posit beaconing. Pskmail servers are stateless, i.e they do not retain content, but provide agents to interface with internet services. As such I don't think you can compare it to SkipNet functionality (but I may be wrong here...) There are plans to add DTN functionalty to pskmail in future in order to bypass the internet transport in emergency situations, and I am fully open to any form of suggestions... I propose we take this off list... 73, Rein PA0R rein at couperus dot com -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Charles Brabham n5...@uspacket.org Gesendet: 17.05.09 13:43:30 An: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Betreff: Re: [digitalradio] Pskmail Server in U.S. Nine or so Pskmail servers in the continental US? That's a good start, but I will remind the group that the Packet ( SkipNet ) network has more servers than that on just one of several frequencies where we operate every day. No eMail is carried by the Packet network, which I consider to be a plus. On the other hand, the SkipNet carries peer-to-peer messaging at a much higher speed than Pskmail can, with greater spectral efficiency. I've looked at Pskmail and am impressed, it is an excellent system. It is unfortunate that Packet is ignored or dissed here though, for no rational reason. Packet works just as well, and in some respects it works much better. One area where Packet is more fuctional is in the number of areas served. There are a good deal more SkipNet stations on the air every day, serving a greater variety of locations. Contrary to popularly expressed belief, HF Packet is a solid performer on the air. To illustrate, note that my station located at the southern tip of Texas exchanges messages every day with another SkipNet station located 25 miles in from the Canadian border, and has routinely done so throughout the solar minimum. Is it smart to develop and utilize the Pskmail network? - Yes, most definately! Is it smart to dis and ignore the SkipNet which is faster, serves many more locations and is more spectrally efficient? - I'll leave that for the reader to consider. 73 DE Charles Brabham, N5PVL -- http://pa0r.blogspirit.com Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Pages at http://www.obriensweb.com/sked Recommended digital mode software: Winwarbler, FLDIGI, DM780, or Multipsk Logging Software: DXKeeper or Ham Radio Deluxe. Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:digitalradio-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com
Re: [digitalradio] Pskmail Server in U.S. (Rick)
Rick, Well I went to find the call of the other station close to you and it was not on the list today I will keep a lookout for it, I have seen you connect to Fred (WB5CON) at times, the band has not be too good but if you would like for me to QSY to another band so you can connect I would be glad just let me know. My server has been on 10.148, was using PSK125 but now I'm using PSK250, it beacons avery 20min starting at the top of the hour. My station antenna is a Butternut so its not the best. Russell NC5O Yesterday is HISTORY. Tomorrow is a MYSTERY. Today is a GIFT! Thats why its called the PRESENT! IN GOD WE TRUST Russell Blair (NC5O) Skype-Russell.Blair Hell Field #300 DRCC #55 30m Dig-group #693 --- On Sat, 5/16/09, Rick W mrf...@frontiernet.net wrote: From: Rick W mrf...@frontiernet.net Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Pskmail Server in U.S. To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, May 16, 2009, 8:16 PM Russell, Where is the Wisconsin one located? I live in SW Wisconsin, but my understanding is that there are 3 PSKmail stations listed as active in the U.S.,? At least on the 10.148 frequency. The main one I can sometimes reach is WB5CON in Mississiippi, but not easy to do on a consistent basis. What we need are many more stations on different bands. Especially would like to see some NVIS stations on 80 meters. Could even have VHF stations as there is at least one in a large city, but outside the U.S. Is anyone considering becoming a server station? If the Windows client gets PSKmail chat, we would be able to have both e-mail and peer to peer messaging using ARQ and could use on VHF as well as HF. That is not available with any other system, much less a completely open system fully GPL'ed. This is the only decentralized system that I am aware of that can do all these things. 73, Rick, KV9U Russell Blair wrote: I was taking a count today of Pskmail Servers in the U.S. and there are four 1 in Mississippi, 2 in Texas, 1 in Va, 1 in WI, and one in western Canada. Hopefully there will be more users as time goes on and the word gets out and more people start getting out and needing to use the mail servers. Russell NC5O
Re: [digitalradio] Pskmail Server in U.S. (Rick)
Hi Russell, Are there many other PSKmail stations on the air that are not being listed on the mailserver site? http://pskmail.wikispaces.com/PSKmailservers The only stations for the U.S. that are listed at the moment are: WB5CON KD5WDQ KD4QCL I think it was KD4WDQ that I have triggered a few times when doing a call up of the servers on 10148, but only WB5CON has been strong enough to actually connect to. It seems to take a pretty good signal to make this work well. Do you find that the 250 baud rate works most of the time about as well as the 125 baud rate? Probably less affected by Doppler? But would be more affected by ISI multipsk? Without having an automatically adjustable protocol, all the modes are a compromise much of the time. And the faster modes just can not connect when slower modes would work, even though very slow. But slow is better than zero throughput like we often had with 300 baud packet and why that mode never became usable unless you had a very stable MUF type of path. From what I can tell, a lot of the Pactor 2 and 3 operation is done this way because 100 baud PSK is quite susceptible to ionospheric conditions we often have on HF. 73, Rick, KV9U Russell Blair wrote: Rick, Well I went to find the call of the other station close to you and it was not on the list today I will keep a lookout for it, I have seen you connect to Fred (WB5CON) at times, the band has not be too good but if you would like for me to QSY to another band so you can connect I would be glad just let me know. My server has been on 10.148, was using PSK125 but now I'm using PSK250, it beacons avery 20min starting at the top of the hour. My station antenna is a Butternut so its not the best. Russell NC5O
Re: [digitalradio] Pskmail Server in U.S.
I have to concur with Rein. The impression we have been given in the past is that Skipnet was a short term ARRL experiment under an FCC STA (Special Temporary Authorization). Do a search on ARRL's web site to see the number of references on anything current. My most recent search came up empty. If there really is a network that can be accessed by individual hams, then one would expect the proponents to frequently mention the frequencies on the various bands, the method of access, any procedures to send messages, etc. Curious that this never happens. What is important about PSKmail is the many features that are simply not available on any other system: - it does not rely on 300 baud FSK packet and can use any modulation, including potentially future adaptable modes - works with sound card technology and only a simple interface required - moving toward cross platform with the addition of the javaPSKmail software with fldigi - can set up ad hoc servers on short notice by anyone, not just those who operate a centralized system - can operate on VHF as well as HF And here is something that I just found out from Rein: PSKmail can be set up as a closed system without any access to the internet, if you don't want it to have such access. It can act as a server for a local or regional group, etc. If possible, this discussion may be quite valuable on the group. 73, Rick, KV9U Rein Couperus wrote: I would gladly discuss with you how we can make the systems work together, with the ultimate goal to increase efficiency and service coverage of both... As I cannot find any usable information about SkipNet (other than the generic definition of several flavours of overlay networks with skipnet routing) I would be interested to know what you are actually doing in that area Pskmail is presently an internet or LAN access system for HF, i.e. it uses existing internet infrastructure as a transport medium wherever possible, and it provides efficient 'last 3000 Miles' HF connectivity to various internet services like email, web access, twitter etc.+ fully compatible HF APRS messaging and posit beaconing. Pskmail servers are stateless, i.e they do not retain content, but provide agents to interface with internet services. As such I don't think you can compare it to SkipNet functionality (but I may be wrong here...) There are plans to add DTN functionalty to pskmail in future in order to bypass the internet transport in emergency situations, and I am fully open to any form of suggestions... I propose we take this off list... 73, Rein PA0R rein at couperus dot com
Re: [digitalradio] Pskmail Server in U.S. (Rick)
Hi Rick, well I don't know how to get my server listed on that site, it up and working most of the day till about 9:00 PM my time. I have had a few connections when I was on PSK125, it seem to woke fine, and band condition do change thing a lot, I can have the program change modes and bands. I was hoping to get some bulletin information added to the server but I have not worked on that yet, hope to soon. I was thinking if I could get to a point where if someone connect and needed the weather for say a city that just by inputing a zip code the server would look up the weather via the internet a and then send it out as part of a short message to the station that asked for it, but I'm no programmer just a button pusher. OK hope the bands get better for us all. Russell NC5O Yesterday is HISTORY. Tomorrow is a MYSTERY. Today is a GIFT! Thats why its called the PRESENT! IN GOD WE TRUST Russell Blair (NC5O) Skype-Russell.Blair Hell Field #300 DRCC #55 30m Dig-group #693 --- On Sun, 5/17/09, Rick W mrf...@frontiernet.net wrote: From: Rick W mrf...@frontiernet.net Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Pskmail Server in U.S. (Rick) To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 1:11 PM Hi Russell, Are there many other PSKmail stations on the air that are not being listed on the mailserver site? http://pskmail. wikispaces. com/PSKmailserve rs The only stations for the U.S. that are listed at the moment are: WB5CON KD5WDQ KD4QCL I think it was KD4WDQ that I have triggered a few times when doing a call up of the servers on 10148, but only WB5CON has been strong enough to actually connect to. It seems to take a pretty good signal to make this work well. Do you find that the 250 baud rate works most of the time about as well as the 125 baud rate? Probably less affected by Doppler? But would be more affected by ISI multipsk? Without having an automatically adjustable protocol, all the modes are a compromise much of the time. And the faster modes just can not connect when slower modes would work, even though very slow. But slow is better than zero throughput like we often had with 300 baud packet and why that mode never became usable unless you had a very stable MUF type of path. From what I can tell, a lot of the Pactor 2 and 3 operation is done this way because 100 baud PSK is quite susceptible to ionospheric conditions we often have on HF. 73, Rick, KV9U Russell Blair wrote: Rick, Well I went to find the call of the other station close to you and it was not on the list today I will keep a lookout for it, I have seen you connect to Fred (WB5CON) at times, the band has not be too good but if you would like for me to QSY to another band so you can connect I would be glad just let me know. My server has been on 10.148, was using PSK125 but now I'm using PSK250, it beacons avery 20min starting at the top of the hour. My station antenna is a Butternut so its not the best. Russell NC5O
Re: [digitalradio] Pskmail Server in U.S.
Group members will have to forgive a few members here who appear to harbor some personal hostility regarding the SkipNets, and Packet radio in general. To find out more about the SkipNets without getting flames stirred up here, please contact me off-list for details. As it stands today, the Skipnets transport miscellaneous bulletin traffic to keep the system exercised. There is some personal messaging, but there is a great deal of underutilized capacity for more point-to-point messaging between amateurs. No non-ham or 3rd-party traffic is transported by the Skipnets, but ham-to-ham communications are definately encouraged. A new HF network roughly modeled on the SkipNets is currently under development, but the first servers will probably not appear for some months yet. There are still numerous issues to resolve. In the mean-time, participation in the SkipNets are a good way to get up to speed on the basic concepts behind a global, independent, all-ham radio communications network. Again, due to the hostility here, please take all comments and questions off-list. Contact me personally at: n5...@uspacket.org - Or stop by at http://www.uspacket.org where there is a forum. 73 DE Charles, N5PVL
Re: [digitalradio] Pskmail Server in U.S. (Charles)
Charles, I have joined the UsPacket.org as you requested, However unless there has been some e-mails sent to you off net I for one see no hostility regarding the SkipNets. I for one was looking for information about the network because I had never heard of this network and if it came across to you as hostiliy I am sorry, it was not meant that way. I hope that each of the groups can work to make thing better. Thanks Russell NC5O Yesterday is HISTORY. Tomorrow is a MYSTERY. Today is a GIFT! Thats why its called the PRESENT! IN GOD WE TRUST Russell Blair (NC5O) Skype-Russell.Blair Hell Field #300 DRCC #55 30m Dig-group #693 --- On Sun, 5/17/09, Charles Brabham n5...@uspacket.org wrote: From: Charles Brabham n5...@uspacket.org Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Pskmail Server in U.S. To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 3:44 PM Group members will have to forgive a few members here who appear to harbor some personal hostility regarding the SkipNets, and Packet radio in general. To find out more about the SkipNets without getting flames stirred up here, please contact me off-list for details. As it stands today, the Skipnets transport miscellaneous bulletin traffic to keep the system exercised. There is some personal messaging, but there is a great deal of underutilized capacity for more point-to-point messaging between amateurs. No non-ham or 3rd-party traffic is transported by the Skipnets, but ham-to-ham communications are definately encouraged. A new HF network roughly modeled on the SkipNets is currently under development, but the first servers will probably not appear for some months yet. There are still numerous issues to resolve. In the mean-time, participation in the SkipNets are a good way to get up to speed on the basic concepts behind a global, independent, all-ham radio communications network. Again, due to the hostility here, please take all comments and questions off-list. Contact me personally at: n5...@uspacket. org - Or stop by at http://www.uspacket .org where there is a forum. 73 DE Charles, N5PVL
Re: [digitalradio] Pskmail Server in U.S.
Russell, Where is the Wisconsin one located? I live in SW Wisconsin, but my understanding is that there are 3 PSKmail stations listed as active in the U.S.,? At least on the 10.148 frequency. The main one I can sometimes reach is WB5CON in Mississiippi, but not easy to do on a consistent basis. What we need are many more stations on different bands. Especially would like to see some NVIS stations on 80 meters. Could even have VHF stations as there is at least one in a large city, but outside the U.S. Is anyone considering becoming a server station? If the Windows client gets PSKmail chat, we would be able to have both e-mail and peer to peer messaging using ARQ and could use on VHF as well as HF. That is not available with any other system, much less a completely open system fully GPL'ed. This is the only decentralized system that I am aware of that can do all these things. 73, Rick, KV9U Russell Blair wrote: I was taking a count today of Pskmail Servers in the U.S. and there are four 1 in Mississippi, 2 in Texas, 1 in Va, 1 in WI, and one in western Canada. Hopefully there will be more users as time goes on and the word gets out and more people start getting out and needing to use the mail servers. Russell NC5O
