Re: [steering-discuss] funding for system operations meeting
Hi David, David Nelson wrote on 2011-08-01 01:31: I've no particular opinion about the funding, but I did regret having missed the opportunity to have met the project's sysadmins, and I was disappointed that it was a thing not decided with the knowledge and possible involvement of the international community of web resource contributors, but with only discussion between German members. While I recognize that there are many German sysadmins in the project, I do hope that it's not going to become a habit that things be organized purely between them, because there are actually other people working on webby things. Please do remember the spirit and intentions of the Community Bylaws. of course, we do, but that meeting was a nonpublic one on purpose. We really wanted to get a lot of work done concerning the admins, and we were busy all weekend long. Anyone outside of the admin group would have had a boring time. There was simply no time for meet and greet, as harsh as it sounds. It was solely for those having root access, not for web site managers, as the technical topics were in-depth and detailed. We definitely plan to have open meetings, but this meeting was really necessary to make the sysadmins work together, so it was reserved for this group. Hope you understand what I mean and it doesn't sound too harsh. :-) Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] funding for system operations meeting
Hi, Von: Florian Effenberger Gesendet: 29.07.11 18:24 Uhr Norbert Thiebaud wrote on 2011-07-29 18:06: Ahh, so you're asking TDF to cover the 600 euro budget overrun. Now I get it:-) Thanks for the clarification actually, I would like to ask to cover everything from the TDF account, as this would be fair. No - this would be absolutely chaotic. Imagine if every now and then a team comes around, doing some event and then *afterwards* asks for reimbursement, because this would be fair. sorry, clear: no from my side. André -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] funding for system operations meeting
Hi Florian, On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 10:20 AM, Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote: It was solely for those having root access, not for web site managers, as the technical topics were in-depth and detailed. Yes, well given that you have root access to my server, it would have been good for me to talk to you about some in-depth and detailed issues. We definitely plan to have open meetings, but this meeting was really necessary to make the sysadmins work together, so it was reserved for this group. Work together? And with the outside world, too, I hope! I posted a request/proposition to the admins on the website ML a week ago and still did not get even an answer. I notice sometimes that getting some attention and cooperation from the libreoffice.org admins is like trying to get blood out of a stone (and I'm not just talking about my own posts, others seem to get the same mileage sometimes). So I hope you at least talked about that kind of in-depth issue too. ;-) Precisely the problem seems to be that the sysadmins are a closed group, unlike other teams in the project, and simply don't seem to work in the same way as other teams. They might be managing key infrastructure but it's not a reason for working differently - in fact quite the opposite, they should be especially attentive to working openly it's not a good tendence, IMO. -- David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] funding for system operations meeting
Hi, Andre Schnabel wrote on 2011-08-01 09:41: No - this would be absolutely chaotic. Imagine if every now and then a team comes around, doing some event and then *afterwards* asks for reimbursement, because this would be fair. sorry, clear: no from my side. well, I see it different in this case, but in the end, it is not a problem - obviously the SC agreed to at least paying the excess of 600 € (at least I counted only +1 votes), and we have the German associations board decision from January to pay the 1.000 €, so the sum in the end works anyways. Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] funding for system operations meeting
Hi, Jonathan Aquilina wrote on 2011-08-01 09:25: hey florian im just curious how does one get to be a system admin? Is it limited to those people in germany or can people such as myself based in malta help out as a systems admin as well? there is no defined process so far, and basically, of course, everyone is welcome from any country - the fact that it's just Germans is a pure coincidence. However, at the moment, we have a group of 10 people, and I am a bit hesitant of adding more people to this core group. The core group has full root access to all our systems, and it should be kept rather small. This does not mean, of course, that we do not need help in maintaining individual services like website co. Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] funding for system operations meeting
On 01/08/2011 10:40, Florian Effenberger wrote: Hi, Jonathan Aquilina wrote on 2011-08-01 09:25: hey florian im just curious how does one get to be a system admin? Is it limited to those people in germany or can people such as myself based in malta help out as a systems admin as well? there is no defined process so far, and basically, of course, everyone is welcome from any country - the fact that it's just Germans is a pure coincidence. However, at the moment, we have a group of 10 people, and I am a bit hesitant of adding more people to this core group. The core group has full root access to all our systems, and it should be kept rather small. This does not mean, of course, that we do not need help in maintaining individual services like website co. Florian Me im not so much into web design and coding, me im more of a technical server side guy. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] funding for system operations meeting
Hi David, David Nelson wrote on 2011-08-01 10:10: Yes, well given that you have root access to my server, it would have been good for me to talk to you about some in-depth and detailed issues. well, in that case, I indeed missed it, and I am sorry for that. However, publically announcing it would have defeated its purpose. We wanted only the core group together, to effectively work. Having visitors or interested parties around would not only have make things more complicated, but also from a security point of view, the information simply was not for the public. Indeed, since you manage one of our external services, inviting you would have made sense - again, sorry for overlooking that, that was not on purpose. Work together? And with the outside world, too, I hope! I posted a request/proposition to the admins on the website ML a week ago and still did not get even an answer. I notice sometimes that getting some attention and cooperation from the libreoffice.org admins is like trying to get blood out of a stone (and I'm not just talking about my own posts, others seem to get the same mileage sometimes). So I hope you at least talked about that kind of in-depth issue too. ;-) Well - if anyone is interested in hiring a few folks for a 24x7 infrastructure service, feel free and then complain if it doesn't work. Otherwise, I beg some understanding, that we are all busy as hell and try our best to make things happen, and that we do a real good job. Of course, not all is well, but I think the fact that everything works like a charm speaks for itself. What was your request about? Precisely the problem seems to be that the sysadmins are a closed group, unlike other teams in the project, and simply don't seem to work in the same way as other teams. They might be managing key infrastructure but it's not a reason for working differently - in fact quite the opposite, they should be especially attentive to working openly it's not a good tendence, IMO. We're not a closed group at all. Many of us are lurking on the website and/or moderators mailing list, and jump in. Like Erich and Christian with setting up new websites, Christian investigating mail issues and the like. What we indeed plan is to introduce the admin team to the public, showing the names and faces behind it, and ways to contact us to be more transparent. You know, complaining is easy. I myself do nearly a half-day job for TDF, next to my real life, and I'm a bit allergic to generalization. If there is a specific topic that does not work out, please ping us again and let us know. But saying in general, we are totally closed and nothing works is a bit unfair, David. You know better that it isn't that bad. Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[steering-discuss] offsite website backup
Hey guys im just thinking here. Does the TDF have an offsite server that hosts the website in case the main server needs to go down for maintenance? -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] offsite website backup
Hi, Jonathan Aquilina wrote on 2011-08-01 10:50: Does the TDF have an offsite server that hosts the website in case the main server needs to go down for maintenance? can you please redirect that question to the website list? steering-discuss is the wrong place for it :) Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] funding for system operations meeting
Hi Jonathan, On Mon, 2011-08-01 at 09:25 +0200, Jonathan Aquilina wrote: hey florian im just curious how does one get to be a system admin? Is it limited to those people in germany or can people such as myself based in malta help out as a systems admin as well? I would like to see you meet some / any of the commitments you've made in the development arena before giving any access to critical infrastructure. HTH, Michael. -- michael.me...@novell.com , Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] offsite website backup
On 01/08/2011 10:50, Florian Effenberger wrote: Hi, Jonathan Aquilina wrote on 2011-08-01 10:50: Does the TDF have an offsite server that hosts the website in case the main server needs to go down for maintenance? can you please redirect that question to the website list? steering-discuss is the wrong place for it :) Florian My apologies. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] funding for system operations meeting
Hi Florian, On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 11:46 AM, Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote: You know, complaining is easy. I myself do nearly a half-day job for TDF, next to my real life, and I'm a bit allergic to generalization. If there is a specific topic that does not work out, please ping us again and let us know. But saying in general, we are totally closed and nothing works is a bit unfair, David. You know better that it isn't that bad. I know you work tremendously hard for the project, and you have a lot of respect and gratitude from me from that, which you know I have expressed on- and off-list various times. Let me take the chance to say again that, without your *personal* efforts, this project would probably fall apart. Literally. No, this is in no way directed towards you personally. Nor do I ever say that everything is bad. But that doesn't mean that one should not point out undesirable tendencies (in a measured and rational manner) before they get to be ingrained habits. And I do understand that, in a FOSS project, we always have to take account of people's time limitations. However, when one is managing the project's key infrastructure as a rather closed group, one does have a bit of a commitment to especial responsiveness, within reasonable limits. In any case, it's certainly what I try to apply with my own piece of infrastructure. My point is that the sysadmins team is perhaps not developing the right culture in terms of openness and participation, and that it would be good to open it up a bit. This is my 2 cents, others may not see things like that, but... For the particular questions I could have raised, I'll mail you off-list. In which case, I perfectly accept that it will take you time to consider and respond, because I know you have a lot on your plate. Once again, you definitely should not read all the above posts as any kind of criticism of you personally. You should probably be aware by now that I hold your work for the project in very high regard. -- David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Base record access unacceptably slow
On Wed, 2011-07-27 at 19:26 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: I think most of the companies i mentioned already employ devs to work on projects relevant to those organisations. If they could each give one person half a week to Base Sure - but if they could each give one person have a week to: improving the UI, accelerating import, fixing most annoying bugs, creating unit tests, ... insert any number of potential problems - then we could also make progress. However - instead of this, we have people complaining and trying to tell other people what to do :-) That actually kills developer time, because they have to respond to the griping by pointing out the obvious lack of resources, the way that reality is shaped - and asking people to be more constructive with their time - by actually getting involved fixing things. If some of those companies had direct control over half a dev So - if some individuals, who have direct control over their own work schedule, could sit down and contribute then we'd get a long way too :-) right ? I don't think TDF can afford to wait until people get annoyed enough (as RMS suggests) because it's easier for people to just stay with other products and the rest of the Suite they come with. A little work and leadership in taking Base forwards might even attract a lot of volunteers to it instead or runing for the hills. So - go for it ! you want to win eternal fame glory, and find yourself a well paid job hacking base: sign up now - get experienced with the code, improve it, make noise about your success. Failing that - your resourcing concerns belong on a single list: the discuss list. Most of the co-operatives i have worked in have paid consultants, part-time workers, accountants, lawyers and all the rest when and where needed. Many of the ones that refused to do so folded or got absorbed. Fine - so start a co-operative to work on LibreOffice, and fund these guys to do the work you want to tell them to do, and to meet your particular priorities. Failing that, do some fund raising yourself to get an existing bespoke development company (say Lanedo) to do the work for you. All the best, Michael. -- michael.me...@novell.com , Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Base record access unacceptably slow
Hi :) The difference is that 1. those other things basically work 2. people are working on them 3. new people are attracted to work on them In complete contrast Base apparently has 1. NO-ONE working on it 2. It doesn't work 3. It's horribly complicated Base is the only app that almost every question can only be solved by getting stuck into coding or extensively trouble-shooting and regression-testing dependencies. Problems in other apps tend to be able to be solved by normal office users that may have no programming skills at all. It seems that we have 3 possible routes 1. Ignore the problems and watch as Base continues to crumble away and lie to new users that we have a database program when we really don't. 2. Drop Base and be honest that we don't have an integrated database program. 3. Step-up and manage. Regards from Tom :) From: Michael Meeks michael.me...@novell.com To: steering-discuss@documentfoundation.org Sent: Mon, 1 August, 2011 12:54:23 Subject: Re: [steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Base record access unacceptably slow On Wed, 2011-07-27 at 19:26 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: I think most of the companies i mentioned already employ devs to work on projects relevant to those organisations. If they could each give one person half a week to Base Sure - but if they could each give one person have a week to: improving the UI, accelerating import, fixing most annoying bugs, creating unit tests, ... insert any number of potential problems - then we could also make progress. However - instead of this, we have people complaining and trying to tell other people what to do :-) That actually kills developer time, because they have to respond to the griping by pointing out the obvious lack of resources, the way that reality is shaped - and asking people to be more constructive with their time - by actually getting involved fixing things. If some of those companies had direct control over half a dev So - if some individuals, who have direct control over their own work schedule, could sit down and contribute then we'd get a long way too :-) right ? I don't think TDF can afford to wait until people get annoyed enough (as RMS suggests) because it's easier for people to just stay with other products and the rest of the Suite they come with. A little work and leadership in taking Base forwards might even attract a lot of volunteers to it instead or runing for the hills. So - go for it ! you want to win eternal fame glory, and find yourself a well paid job hacking base: sign up now - get experienced with the code, improve it, make noise about your success. Failing that - your resourcing concerns belong on a single list: the discuss list. Most of the co-operatives i have worked in have paid consultants, part-time workers, accountants, lawyers and all the rest when and where needed. Many of the ones that refused to do so folded or got absorbed. Fine - so start a co-operative to work on LibreOffice, and fund these guys to do the work you want to tell them to do, and to meet your particular priorities. Failing that, do some fund raising yourself to get an existing bespoke development company (say Lanedo) to do the work for you. All the best, Michael. -- michael.me...@novell.com , Pseudo Engineer, itinerant idiot -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Base record access unacceptably slow
Tom, You may have misunderstood Michael. Your 1. will be true if no one's interested in picking up that module. Your 2. is way too premature :) (btw; a very important segment of LibreOffice power users use PostgreSQL or MySQL and don't use Base, never used it even when it was first introduced inside OOo; an even bigger segment don't use a database at all.) Your 3. is where it seems something does not work ;) step up and manage doesn't mean anything, imho. We have 37 different priorities to work on; if there are developers interested in Base, they're welcome. But you won't force anyone (and TDF does not force anyone) to work on something it does not want or does not need. However, you might want to step up and start to raise funds to have developers work on Base. The doors of opportunity are wide open. best, Charles. Le 01/08/2011 16:38, Tom Davies a écrit : Hi :) The difference is that 1. those other things basically work 2. people are working on them 3. new people are attracted to work on them In complete contrast Base apparently has 1. NO-ONE working on it 2. It doesn't work 3. It's horribly complicated Base is the only app that almost every question can only be solved by getting stuck into coding or extensively trouble-shooting and regression-testing dependencies. Problems in other apps tend to be able to be solved by normal office users that may have no programming skills at all. It seems that we have 3 possible routes 1. Ignore the problems and watch as Base continues to crumble away and lie to new users that we have a database program when we really don't. 2. Drop Base and be honest that we don't have an integrated database program. 3. Step-up and manage. Regards from Tom :) From: Michael Meeks michael.me...@novell.com To: steering-discuss@documentfoundation.org Sent: Mon, 1 August, 2011 12:54:23 Subject: Re: [steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Base record access unacceptably slow On Wed, 2011-07-27 at 19:26 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: I think most of the companies i mentioned already employ devs to work on projects relevant to those organisations. If they could each give one person half a week to Base Sure - but if they could each give one person have a week to: improving the UI, accelerating import, fixing most annoying bugs, creating unit tests, ... insert any number of potential problems - then we could also make progress. However - instead of this, we have people complaining and trying to tell other people what to do :-) That actually kills developer time, because they have to respond to the griping by pointing out the obvious lack of resources, the way that reality is shaped - and asking people to be more constructive with their time - by actually getting involved fixing things. If some of those companies had direct control over half a dev So - if some individuals, who have direct control over their own work schedule, could sit down and contribute then we'd get a long way too :-) right ? I don't think TDF can afford to wait until people get annoyed enough (as RMS suggests) because it's easier for people to just stay with other products and the rest of the Suite they come with. A little work and leadership in taking Base forwards might even attract a lot of volunteers to it instead or runing for the hills. So - go for it ! you want to win eternal fame glory, and find yourself a well paid job hacking base: sign up now - get experienced with the code, improve it, make noise about your success. Failing that - your resourcing concerns belong on a single list: the discuss list. Most of the co-operatives i have worked in have paid consultants, part-time workers, accountants, lawyers and all the rest when and where needed. Many of the ones that refused to do so folded or got absorbed. Fine - so start a co-operative to work on LibreOffice, and fund these guys to do the work you want to tell them to do, and to meet your particular priorities. Failing that, do some fund raising yourself to get an existing bespoke development company (say Lanedo) to do the work for you. All the best, Michael. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] ignore m$ legacy?
Guys... is there even a point discussing this more? The summary is: a) Allowing LO to handle M$ formats won't help people really break free from the M$ stranglehold and will hurt ODF b) Not supporting M$ formats means a serious hurt in the adoption of LO, or anything that is not M$ Now, we can add some salad dressing on these, but that's the bottom line. Personally, I think that I'm seeing a Don Quichote thing going on... Why can't LO be a killer office that can handle _every document_ under the sun? That's VLC reputation in the multimedia field, and that works very very fine for them I think :) As for the spreading of ODF, I suggest to pick a different battle: the one where the governments make it the default format for all their forms. Now _that_ would change things. Marc-André Laverdière Software Security Scientist Innovation Labs, Tata Consultancy Services Hyderabad, India On 07/31/2011 01:31 PM, Gordon Burgess-Parker wrote: On 28/07/2011 21:54, Olivier Hallot wrote: I would prefer that LO import MSO format flawlessly but not export them at all... IMHO that's a very shortsighted view. One of the main advantages (in my experience) is the ability of LO to export direct to email in MSO format. Consider the following scenario. A user uses MSO 2007 or 2010 and they use the OOXML format by default or by choice. If they then send a document to someone else that only uses MSO 2003 or earlier, and the sender is not certain whether the recipient has the Compatibility pack installed, they have to save their document as a 97-2003 version and thus rapidly build up duplicated documents on their machine in both OOXML format and 97-2003 format. Now consider the LO user. Creates and saves documents in ODF format - sends to an MSO user just by doing the Send As .Doc format. No duplication of documents at all. A really great feature, and one that assumes MSO document type support. IMHO, a necessity in the current climate (particularly looking at the growing practice of computer Vendors installing a trial version of Office 2010 which reverts to a Starter edition if not purchased. That's the danger as far as I can see) -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] ignore m$ legacy?
2011/8/1 Marc-André Laverdière marc-an...@atc.tcs.com Why can't LO be a killer office that can handle _every document_ under the sun? That's VLC reputation in the multimedia field, and that works very very fine for them I think :) As for the spreading of ODF, I suggest to pick a different battle: the one where the governments make it the default format for all their forms. Now _that_ would change things. +1. Difficult, but a good strategy. When I started certification, there was insufficient demand for a viable business if we had only provided for OOo at the time. We certificated MS users in *generic* skills of WP, SS, Drawing, Presenting and DB but made the certification friendly to FOSS and used only FOSS examples in the guidance on the grounds there were plenty of egs out there for MS. This has enabled us to get into MS camps and some of them have switched. We know from student Blogs that many of the students are now much more familiar with FOSS than before. That wouldn't have happened if we had boycotted MS. -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ) www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Viability of the 3.4.2 Release
Given that the release of LibreOffice 3.4.2 is targeted at enterprise users, I find it surprising that the product is thought to be ready for release. At lease 2 significant bugs have been introduced and remain present that would, to my mind, discourage personal, let alone enterprise users. They are: 1 Inability to connect to address data sources - at least in Linux systems. 2 Inability to add/change icons in toolbar customisation - no scroll bar. Apart from the bugs themselves, what does this say about the product in general as a usable tool? Were I still an enterprise user, I would be very wary about allowing this release into my office. Peter HB -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Viability of the 3.4.2 Release
On 01/08/2011 11:42, Peter Hillier-Brook wrote: Given that the release of LibreOffice 3.4.2 is targeted at enterprise users, I find it surprising that the product is thought to be ready for release. At lease 2 significant bugs have been introduced and remain present that would, to my mind, discourage personal, let alone enterprise users. They are: 1 Inability to connect to address data sources - at least in Linux systems. 2 Inability to add/change icons in toolbar customisation - no scroll bar. Apart from the bugs themselves, what does this say about the product in general as a usable tool? Were I still an enterprise user, I would be very wary about allowing this release into my office. Peter HB It does seem to have been released a little early. Installed fine (Win 32 Vista), but crashes during the initial processes during enabling Hungarian I will have to revert to an earlier version. Very annoying. It seems strange to release a product with, according to the bug list, more than 40 critical issues. I doubt this will enhance its reputation. -- Mike Hall www.onepoyle.net -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: Fuzzy pictures on PDF export
Hello Simon. Yes, I've played around with the compression and resolution quality and boosted them to 100%. I'm finding that if I have an XCF exported to PNG my PDF export results are superior to my XCF to JPG or BMP PDF export results. Why? I don't know yet. Cheers. -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Fuzzy-pictures-on-PDF-export-tp3208779p3215734.html Sent from the Discuss mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Monthly Bug Hunting Session
Hi all, I want to draw attention on our planned monthly bug hunting session which will be tommorow, 2011-08-02, 13:00 UTC, and I want to invite you to follow. For more information please have a look at http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/IRCSessions#Monthly_Bug_Hunting_Sessions -- Grüße k-j -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Gmane sending issues
Hi, Larry,On 7/31/11 6:17 PM, Larry Gusaas wrote:On 2011/07/31 5:28 PM Ken Springer wrote:Hi, Larry,On 7/31/11 2:28 PM, Larry Gusaas wrote:Please fix your quoteattribution. It is almost impossible to pick out your comments in thismess.I would if I knew how And*if*it was easy to do for just theLO messages. I'm not happy with the way TB 5.0 works, and gettingclose to looking for something else. Iloved TB 3.6.16. And it worked the way I wanted.This account is set touse HTML, one of the reasons I want the GMANENNTP account to work.This list only accepts plain text. If you sent in HTML only the listprobably converted it poorly to plain text. Change the settings inThunderbird preferences to ask what format to send in before sending themessage. I always compose in HTML but send in plain text to mailinglists. TB 5.0 works great for me.I didn't follow your suggestion above. I don't want to turn this into a Thunderbird discussion, but it may be the text issue was being caused by a couple of extensions that I've disabled. Both extensions are listed as being compatible with 5.0, but it's possible the two conflict with each other.I hate being a program's beta tester. Also, this is a cut and copy reply that I wrote, mistakenly, using the GMANE account, not the Wordworks account. And I want to see how it looks, just out of plain curiosity now that I've disabled the two extensions. :-) Have you received an authorization email form gmane to your currentemail address? You have to reply to it before the post is forwarded tothis mailing list. Since you are using a different email address thanyou used to, I suspect you haven't. Check your spam folders.I honestly don't remember, but logically I did receive it and replied. The new email address is the wordworks one, and it's obviously working. If the message has the snowshed email address, then that message was sent via the GMANE interface.PS: Your old address through gmane wassnows...@dishmail.net.Thank you Larry That's the address I was wanting to know! It's the one I thought I used originally. Later today, I'll send an unsubscribe email for that address. I just hope LO doesn't send an unsubscription confirmation email to the snowshed address as that address no longer exists.-- KenMac OS X 10.6.8Firefox 5.0Thunderbird 5.0LibreOffice 3.3.3 -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] First details and schedules for the LibreOffice Conference
Hi, lots of information still missing, such as the actual conferences, etc. but you can get a good idea of the event now: http://conference.libreoffice.org/tracks/ Best, Charles. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] ignore m$ legacy?
On 2011-07-28 4:54 PM, Olivier Hallot olivier.hal...@documentfoundation.org wrote: What you say is almost that we should give up on ODF and stick with Microsoft formats... Not at all... I would prefer that LO import MSO format flawlessly but not export them at all... My same response - that eliminates LibO as an option for people who *must* exchange documents with people who are using MSO on an ongoing basis - which is 95% of the corporate world. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: Gmane sending issues
On 2011/08/01 9:44 AM Ken Springer wrote: Have you received an authorization email form gmane to your currentemail address? You have to reply to it before the post is forwarded tothis mailing list. Since you are using a different email address thanyou used to, I suspect you haven't. Check your spam folders. I honestly don't remember, but logically I did receive it and replied. The new email address is the wordworks one, and it's obviously working. The new address is working when using email to the list. You have to register that address at gmane as well. Since it doesn't work with gmane it is not working there. PS: Your old address through gmanewassnows...@dishmail.net. Thank you Larry That's the address I was wanting to know! It's the one I thought I used originally. Later today, I'll send an unsubscribe email for that address. I just hope LO doesn't send an unsubscription confirmation email to the snowshed address as that address no longer exists I found that address from posts you made to gmane.comp.documentfoundation.libreoffice.user . I did not find any posts with that address to this list - news://news.gmane.com/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.discuss LO will send a confirmation email when you unsubscribe. Besides, that will not solve your problem. Larry -- _ Larry I. Gusaas Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan Canada Website: http://larry-gusaas.com An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind theirs. - Edgard Varese -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Gmane sending issues
On 8/1/11 10:18 AM, Larry Gusaas wrote: On 2011/08/01 9:44 AM Ken Springer wrote: Have you received an authorization email form gmane to your currentemail address? You have to reply to it before the post is forwarded tothis mailing list. Since you are using a different email address thanyou used to, I suspect you haven't. Check your spam folders. I honestly don't remember, but logically I did receive it and replied. The new email address is the wordworks one, and it's obviously working. The new address is working when using email to the list. You have to register that address at gmane as well. Since it doesn't work with gmane it is not working there. I've not made any changes at GMANE as of yet. And I've not found the website to be that easy to navigate and/or understand unless you are higher up on the technically non-challenged food chain. This seems to be a common problem I find with open source products as well as newsgroup use in general. PS: Your old address through gmanewassnows...@dishmail.net. Thank you Larry That's the address I was wanting to know! It's the one I thought I used originally. Later today, I'll send an unsubscribe email for that address. I just hope LO doesn't send an unsubscription confirmation email to the snowshed address as that address no longer exists I found that address from posts you made to gmane.comp.documentfoundation.libreoffice.user . I did not find any posts with that address to this list - news://news.gmane.com/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.discuss I didn't sign up the wordworks address at GMANE as of yet. Going to wait until I know I've got the snowshed address deleted there. LO will send a confirmation email when you unsubscribe. Besides, that will not solve your problem. Do you know if the confirmation email will require a reply from me? Ken -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Base record access unacceptably slow
Hi :) No-one has picked up that module in the last 11 months. It doesn't look as though anyone is keen on doing so soon. Is force the only method you can think of to achieve an objective? I think it's usually better to find an advantage that a person or organisation might gain from helping and helping them get excited about that. Also i think it's better to focus that effort on people that have relevant skills, knowledge or experience or else on people and organisations that have good resources. TDF is in a better position to find funding and already has more resources than I have if it was at all interested in developing Base. Regards from Tom :) From: Charles-H. Schulz charles.sch...@documentfoundation.org To: steering-disc...@documentfoundation.org Sent: Mon, 1 August, 2011 15:55:11 Subject: Re: [steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Base record access unacceptably slow Tom, You may have misunderstood Michael. Your 1. will be true if no one's interested in picking up that module. Your 2. is way too premature :) (btw; a very important segment of LibreOffice power users use PostgreSQL or MySQL and don't use Base, never used it even when it was first introduced inside OOo; an even bigger segment don't use a database at all.) Your 3. is where it seems something does not work ;) step up and manage doesn't mean anything, imho. We have 37 different priorities to work on; if there are developers interested in Base, they're welcome. But you won't force anyone (and TDF does not force anyone) to work on something it does not want or does not need. However, you might want to step up and start to raise funds to have developers work on Base. The doors of opportunity are wide open. best, Charles. Le 01/08/2011 16:38, Tom Davies a écrit : Hi :) The difference is that 1. those other things basically work 2. people are working on them 3. new people are attracted to work on them In complete contrast Base apparently has 1. NO-ONE working on it 2. It doesn't work 3. It's horribly complicated Base is the only app that almost every question can only be solved by getting stuck into coding or extensively trouble-shooting and regression-testing dependencies. Problems in other apps tend to be able to be solved by normal office users that may have no programming skills at all. It seems that we have 3 possible routes 1. Ignore the problems and watch as Base continues to crumble away and lie to new users that we have a database program when we really don't. 2. Drop Base and be honest that we don't have an integrated database program. 3. Step-up and manage. Regards from Tom :) From: Michael Meeks michael.me...@novell.com To: steering-disc...@documentfoundation.org Sent: Mon, 1 August, 2011 12:54:23 Subject: Re: [steering-discuss] Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Base record access unacceptably slow On Wed, 2011-07-27 at 19:26 +0100, Tom Davies wrote: I think most of the companies i mentioned already employ devs to work on projects relevant to those organisations. If they could each give one person half a week to Base Sure - but if they could each give one person have a week to: improving the UI, accelerating import, fixing most annoying bugs, creating unit tests, ... insert any number of potential problems - then we could also make progress. However - instead of this, we have people complaining and trying to tell other people what to do :-) That actually kills developer time, because they have to respond to the griping by pointing out the obvious lack of resources, the way that reality is shaped - and asking people to be more constructive with their time - by actually getting involved fixing things. If some of those companies had direct control over half a dev So - if some individuals, who have direct control over their own work schedule, could sit down and contribute then we'd get a long way too :-) right ? I don't think TDF can afford to wait until people get annoyed enough (as RMS suggests) because it's easier for people to just stay with other products and the rest of the Suite they come with. A little work and leadership in taking Base forwards might even attract a lot of volunteers to it instead or runing for the hills. So - go for it ! you want to win eternal fame glory, and find yourself a well paid job hacking base: sign up now - get experienced with the code, improve it, make noise about your success. Failing that - your resourcing concerns belong on a single list: the discuss list. Most of the co-operatives i have worked in have paid consultants, part-time workers, accountants, lawyers and all the rest when and where needed. Many of the ones that refused to do so folded or got absorbed. Fine - so start a co-operative to work on
[tdf-discuss] Re: Gmane sending issues
On 2011/08/01 10:47 AM Ken Springer wrote: I've not made any changes at GMANE as of yet. And I've not found the website to be that easy to navigate and/or understand unless you are higher up on the technically non-challenged food chain. This seems to be a common problem I find with open source products as well as newsgroup use in general. You do not need to make any changes at the gmane website. Just enter your new email address in the gmane account settings in Thunderbird. The following is from http://gmane.org/faq.php : *Posting* * *What happens after I post to a Gmane newsgroup?* The Gmane auto-authorizer sends you an email. * *I didn't get any email.* Then the address you used in your From or Reply-To headers was invalid. Use a valid email address. And you can't use a public.gmane.org address when posting. * *But I did use a valid email address.* Perhaps you did in your From, but your Reply-To address pointed to the mailing list. Don't do that. * *I got an email from the auto-authorizer, and I answered that. Then I didn't hear anything more.* This means that your response didn't reach Gmane. Re-send your reply to the auth message. Also check their posting page: http://gmane.org/post.php *Here's how it works.* 1. The first time you post something to a newsgroup, Gmane spools the message and sends you an email asking you to respond. 2. You press reply in your favorite mail reader, and Gmane registers this authorization. 3. Every five minutes, a Gmane cron job goes through the spool of unsent messages, and sends all messages that has received authorization. 4. No more than one message is sent per user per five minutes. If you post more than one message per five minutes, the messages are spooled and sent out later. No action is required from you. 5. If you authorize more than one new group per hour, the authorizations are spooled, and handled one per hour. This is to discourage mass authorizations of groups by diligent spammers. I didn't sign up the wordworks address at GMANE as of yet. Going to wait until I know I've got the snowshed address deleted there. I thought you said you couldn't post with the workworks address. There is no need to delete the snowshed address at gmane. Just put your workworks address in Thunderbird's account settings for gmane. I'll email you a screenshot of what the account settings should look like. LO will send a confirmation email when you unsubscribe. Besides, that will not solve your problem. Do you know if the confirmation email will require a reply from me? Yes it will. Your unsubscribe email also has to be sent from the address you subscribed with, which you say no longer exists. So there is no point or need to unsubscribe. LO unsubscribe instructions are at: https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Larry -- _ Larry I. Gusaas Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan Canada Website: http://larry-gusaas.com An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind theirs. - Edgard Varese -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] offsite website backup
Hi :) I think TDF have a lot more than just 1 server but presumably would always appreciate another mirror. As Florian says, the website mailing list would have far more info about all that. Regards from Tom :) From: Jonathan Aquilina eagles051...@gmail.com To: steering-disc...@documentfoundation.org Sent: Mon, 1 August, 2011 9:59:12 Subject: Re: [steering-discuss] offsite website backup On 01/08/2011 10:50, Florian Effenberger wrote: Hi, Jonathan Aquilina wrote on 2011-08-01 10:50: Does the TDF have an offsite server that hosts the website in case the main server needs to go down for maintenance? can you please redirect that question to the website list? steering-discuss is the wrong place for it :) Florian My apologies. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Gmane sending issues
On Mon, 01 Aug 2011 10:47:06 -0600 Ken Springer wordwo...@greeleynet.com wrote: On 8/1/11 10:18 AM, Larry Gusaas wrote: On 2011/08/01 9:44 AM Ken Springer wrote: Have you received an authorization email form gmane to your currentemail address? You have to reply to it before the post is forwarded tothis mailing list. Since you are using a different email address thanyou used to, I suspect you haven't. Check your spam folders. I honestly don't remember, but logically I did receive it and replied. The new email address is the wordworks one, and it's obviously working. The new address is working when using email to the list. You have to register that address at gmane as well. Since it doesn't work with gmane it is not working there. I've not made any changes at GMANE as of yet. And I've not found the website to be that easy to navigate and/or understand unless you are higher up on the technically non-challenged food chain. This seems to be a common problem I find with open source products as well as newsgroup use in general. PS: Your old address through gmanewassnows...@dishmail.net. Thank you Larry That's the address I was wanting to know! It's the one I thought I used originally. Later today, I'll send an unsubscribe email for that address. I just hope LO doesn't send an unsubscription confirmation email to the snowshed address as that address no longer exists I found that address from posts you made to gmane.comp.documentfoundation.libreoffice.user . I did not find any posts with that address to this list - news://news.gmane.com/gmane.comp.documentfoundation.discuss I didn't sign up the wordworks address at GMANE as of yet. Going to wait until I know I've got the snowshed address deleted there. LO will send a confirmation email when you unsubscribe. Besides, that will not solve your problem. Do you know if the confirmation email will require a reply from me? Yes, you will need to reply to that confirmation email. An alternative is, to send a message to postmas...@documentfoundation.org and ask the people there to unsubscribe your non-existing address. HTH Sigrid -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: Viability of the 3.4.2 Release
On 08/01/2011 03:42 AM, Peter Hillier-Brook wrote: Given that the release of LibreOffice 3.4.2 is targeted at enterprise users, I find it surprising that the product is thought to be ready for release. At lease 2 significant bugs have been introduced and remain present that would, to my mind, discourage personal, let alone enterprise users. They are: 1 Inability to connect to address data sources - at least in Linux systems. ... Yep: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=32948 Odd part it that it mostly works in 3.3. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Gmane sending issues
On 8/1/11 11:20 AM, Sigrid Carrera wrote: Yes, you will need to reply to that confirmation email. An alternative is, to send a message to postmas...@documentfoundation.org and ask the people there to unsubscribe your non-existing address Thank you, Sigrid. Email request sent. -- Ken Springer All progress depends upon the unreasonable person. George Bernard Shaw Cheap prices make for cheap goods; cheap goods make for cheap men; and cheap men make for a cheap country! President William McKinley http://www.greeleynet.com/~wordwork/airpage.htm -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Gmane sending issues
On 8/1/11 11:14 AM, Larry Gusaas wrote: On 2011/08/01 10:47 AM Ken Springer wrote: I've not made any changes at GMANE as of yet. And I've not found the website to be that easy to navigate and/or understand unless you are higher up on the technically non-challenged food chain. This seems to be a common problem I find with open source products as well as newsgroup use in general. You do not need to make any changes at the gmane website. Just enter your new email address in the gmane account settings in Thunderbird. My info is exactly the same as your screenshot for my name and email address, but the sending doesn't work. The following is from http://gmane.org/faq.php : *Posting* * *What happens after I post to a Gmane newsgroup?* The Gmane auto-authorizer sends you an email. * *I didn't get any email.* Then the address you used in your From or Reply-To headers was invalid. Use a valid email address. And you can't use a public.gmane.org address when posting. * *But I did use a valid email address.* Perhaps you did in your From, but your Reply-To address pointed to the mailing list. Don't do that. * *I got an email from the auto-authorizer, and I answered that. Then I didn't hear anything more.* This means that your response didn't reach Gmane. Re-send your reply to the auth message. Also check their posting page: http://gmane.org/post.php *Here's how it works.* 1. The first time you post something to a newsgroup, Gmane spools the message and sends you an email asking you to respond. 2. You press reply in your favorite mail reader, and Gmane registers this authorization. 3. Every five minutes, a Gmane cron job goes through the spool of unsent messages, and sends all messages that has received authorization. 4. No more than one message is sent per user per five minutes. If you post more than one message per five minutes, the messages are spooled and sent out later. No action is required from you. 5. If you authorize more than one new group per hour, the authorizations are spooled, and handled one per hour. This is to discourage mass authorizations of groups by diligent spammers. I didn't sign up the wordworks address at GMANE as of yet. Going to wait until I know I've got the snowshed address deleted there. I thought you said you couldn't post with the workworks address. Yes and no.:-D If I send a post using the wordworks email account to the mailing list, it will post. If I send the identical post from the GMANE account, with the wordworks address in the account settings, it does *not*post. I forgot to tell you in a previous reply, the discussion mailing list is the only LO list I've subscribed to directly from LO. All my posts to the 3 other lists I follow were done using GMANE. Except for the very earliest posts of mine in the User list. That was before I found out about GMANE. There is no need to delete the snowshed address at gmane. Just put your workworks address in Thunderbird's account settings for gmane. snip Yes it will. Your unsubscribe email also has to be sent from the address you subscribed with, which you say no longer exists. So there is no point or need to unsubscribe. I followed Sigrid's alternative suggestion, and sent a request. LO unsubscribe instructions are at: https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Yep, know that. :grin: I did that originally with the snowshed address and then resubscribed using the nomail option. -- Ken Springer All progress depends upon the unreasonable person. George Bernard Shaw Cheap prices make for cheap goods; cheap goods make for cheap men; and cheap men make for a cheap country! President William McKinley http://www.greeleynet.com/~wordwork/airpage.htm -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Gmane sending issues
Ken Springer wrote: Hi, Larry,On 7/31/11 2:28 PM, Larry Gusaas wrote:Please fix your quote attribution. It is almost impossible to pick out your comments in this mess.I would if I knew how And *if* it was easy to do for just the LO messages. I'm not happy with the way TB 5.0 works, and getting close to looking for something else. I loved TB 3.6.16. And it worked the way I wanted. I am using TB 2.0, I absolutely HATE the newer versions, I really have to disagree with the feature and UI choices the developers have made recently. I much preferred the way the program used to work, so I found an old copy that I had installed on a machine that I was about to clean up and sell. That's what I am now using. I hope that the developers who are contributing to LO make better choices than were made on TB, at least in my opinion. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: Viability of the 3.4.2 Release
I have reported on Bugzilla that docx files which have an equation don't show any text after the equation. This was a regression from version 3.3.x and is present in version 3.4.2 which is an enterprise release :D I guess enterprise users don't care about equations or don't use docx (which makes me wonder why the 6th application in this Suite is the LibreOffice Math equation editor... :) ) BTW I still don't understand why this enterprise release jumped Beta testing and went directly to Release Candidate... -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Viability-of-the-3-4-2-Release-tp3215651p3216703.html Sent from the Discuss mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: Gmane sending issues
On 2011/08/01 12:05 PM Ken Springer wrote: clip / My info is exactly the same as your screenshot for my name and email address, but the sending doesn't work. I didn't sign up the wordworks address at GMANE as of yet. Going to wait until I know I've got the snowshed address deleted there. I thought you said you couldn't post with the workworks address. Yes and no.:-D If I send a post using the wordworks email account to the mailing list, it will post. If I send the identical post from the GMANE account, with the wordworks address in the account settings, it does *not*post. Is the Reply-To field blank? It would seem that you have not responded to gmane's confirmation email. Check your spam folders. Does your ISP do spam filtering before you receive email? Check to see if they have filtered the confirmation email. If all else fails, contact gmane. http://gmane.org/contact.php Larry -- _ Larry I. Gusaas Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan Canada Website: http://larry-gusaas.com An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind theirs. - Edgard Varese -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] libreoffice 3.4.2 x64 deb is still rc3
After extraction, it shows LibO_3.4.2rc3_Linux_x86_64_install-deb_en-US. 32bit version has no rc3. -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice-3-4-2-x64-deb-is-still-rc3-tp3216017p3216017.html Sent from the Discuss mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Gmane sending issues
On 8/1/11 1:05 PM, Larry Gusaas wrote: On 2011/08/01 12:05 PM Ken Springer wrote: clip / My info is exactly the same as your screenshot for my name and email address, but the sending doesn't work. I didn't sign up the wordworks address at GMANE as of yet. Going to wait until I know I've got the snowshed address deleted there. I thought you said you couldn't post with the workworks address. Yes and no.:-D If I send a post using the wordworks email account to the mailing list, it will post. If I send the identical post from the GMANE account, with the wordworks address in the account settings, it does *not*post. Is the Reply-To field blank? Aye, Captain! :-D It would seem that you have not responded to gmane's confirmation email. I think you are a step ahead of me. I've not yet signed up with GMANE as wordworks. Only as Snowshed. Which makes me wonder what would happen if I put the snowshed address there. I think I'll try and see what happens. Check your spam folders. Does your ISP do spam filtering before you receive email? The ISP for wordworks does, but not Qwest where everything else goes. I get daily notifications if there is any captured email. Ken -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: Gmane sending issues
On 2011/08/01 2:34 PM Ken Springer wrote: It would seem that you have not responded to gmane's confirmation email. I think you are a step ahead of me. I've not yet signed up with GMANE as wordworks. Only as Snowshed. Which makes me wonder what would happen if I put the snowshed address there. I think I'll try and see what happens. I'm confused. You previously stated you could not post through gmane with your Snowshed address. Now you say you haven't. Please be clear about what you have and haven't done. I'm feeling that I have been wasting my time. Larry -- _ Larry I. Gusaas Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan Canada Website: http://larry-gusaas.com An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind theirs. - Edgard Varese -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [steering-discuss] offsite website backup
Emailed them no response On Aug 1, 2011 7:17 PM, Tom Davies tomdavie...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Hi :) I think TDF have a lot more than just 1 server but presumably would always appreciate another mirror. As Florian says, the website mailing list would have far more info about all that. Regards from Tom :) From: Jonathan Aquilina eagles051...@gmail.com To: steering-disc...@documentfoundation.org Sent: Mon, 1 August, 2011 9:59:12 Subject: Re: [steering-discuss] offsite website backup On 01/08/2011 10:50, Florian Effenberger wrote: Hi, Jonathan Aquilina wrote on 2011-08-01 10:50: Does the TDF have an offsite server that hosts the website in case the main server needs to go down for maintenance? can you please redirect that question to the website list? steering-discuss is the wrong place for it :) Florian My apologies. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to steering-discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Viability of the 3.4.2 Release
On 01/08/11 18:23, NoOp wrote: On 08/01/2011 03:42 AM, Peter Hillier-Brook wrote: Given that the release of LibreOffice 3.4.2 is targeted at enterprise users, I find it surprising that the product is thought to be ready for release. At lease 2 significant bugs have been introduced and remain present that would, to my mind, discourage personal, let alone enterprise users. They are: 1 Inability to connect to address data sources - at least in Linux systems. ... Yep: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=32948 Odd part it that it mostly works in 3.3. I reverted to 3.3.3 and encountered the same problem, so our experiences differ. I can no longer remember when it last worked, but it may have been 3.2.x. I feel a little experimentation coming on. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Re: Gmane sending issues
On 8/1/11 2:40 PM, Larry Gusaas wrote: I'm confused. You previously stated you could not post through gmane with your Snowshed address. Now you say you haven't. You're not wasting your time, but our wires are definitely getting crossed up. And, as this is a text only method of communication, it surprises me not. You're a Mac user, how far back do you go with Mac's? Far enough to remember GEnie where you found Atari and Amiga support? I've been watching and seeing this kind of confusion in text only communications since then. I chalk it up to being part of the game. :-) From the beginning: 1. Signed up for LO's user mailing list with the Snowshed address. Very frustrated with a mailing list help solution, and was about to unsubscribe when I learned about GMANE. 2. Subscribed (if that's the right word) to GMANE. Worked fine. 3. Unsubscribed the LO user mailing list subscription. 4. Resubscribed to LO user mailing list with the no email option, and GMANE worked fine for the user list, and eventually added 3 more LO lists to the GMANE account. All 4 lists worked fine for sending and receiving. I don't remember actually signing up for the other 3 lists using the no email option. 5. Then came all the mailing list email address changes, and GMANE apparently choked on some of it. Florian was posting about trying to get it worked out. At the same time period, I dropped my satellite internet service in favor of newly installed fiber optics. (Who wouldn't?? :-D ) Somewhere in this total time frame, sending using GMANE quit for all 4 lists. 6. The snows...@dishmail.net went away with the satellite service. 7. wordwo...@greeleynet.com was in no way connected to the satellite and fiber optics changes. Greeleynet offers dialup service, and I keep it for testing modems in the PC's I fix. And, there are too many people, places, and things that have the Wordworks email address for me to want to try to make changes at this point. 8. I played around with different ideas, could not find the answer. I found GMANE's site somewhat less than useful for the unknowing in this area. 9. Since I could not post to any of the LO lists using GMANE, I subscribed to the discussion list using the Wordworks email address. When using the wordworks account in TB, posts to the discussion list work. 10. In the GMANE account, I changed the reply to address from snows...@dishmail.net to wordwo...@greeleynet.com, thinking that might work. But, it didn't. No post to any of the 4 LO lists, sent via GMANE, ever get posted. 11. I made no change at GMANE itself. 12. I still receive all posts made to the LO lists via GMANE, but anything I try to send via GMANE goes somewhere other than what I want. :-) The posts are all sitting in the appropriate sent folder, but they never show up in the LO list. I don't know if the blockage is at GMANE, LO, or both. 13. In the end, I see all the discussion list posts in both accounts, but can send in only one account. In summary: 1. I can receive LO list posts for all 4 lists in the GMANE NNTP account, but no messages I send for any of the lists ever get posted. 2. I can receive from and post to the discussion list via the Wordworks email account. That is the only LO list I've subscribed to using the wordworks address. I think I've got this written clearly. :-) But another thing I've learned over the years, never proofread your own writing! LOL And my cat's can't read. :-D Just ask for clarification if something sounds/read strange. As a slight aside, off topic comment, I do wish the Mozilla group would produce manuals the way LO is for the office package. Ken -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[tdf-discuss] Re: Gmane sending issues
On 2011/08/01 3:42 PM Ken Springer wrote: On 8/1/11 2:40 PM, Larry Gusaas wrote: I'm confused. You previously stated you could not post through gmane with your Snowshed address. Now you say you haven't. You're not wasting your time, but our wires are definitely getting crossed up. And, as this is a text only method of communication, it surprises me not. You're a Mac user, how far back do you go with Mac's? I switched to a Mac five years ago and will never go back to the dark side. From the beginning: 1. Signed up for LO's user mailing list with the Snowshed address.Very frustrated with a mailing list help solution, and was about to unsubscribe when I learned about GMANE. I remember you switching to Gmane. I think I was the first responding to your questions about it. 2. Subscribed (if that's the right word) to GMANE. Worked fine. 3. Unsubscribed the LO user mailing list subscription. 4. Resubscribed to LO user mailing list with the no email option, and GMANE worked fine for the user list, and eventually added 3 more LO lists to the GMANE account. All 4 lists worked fine for sending and receiving. I don't remember actually signing up for the other 3 lists using the no email option. Mail sent from unsubscribed posters goes to the moderators and may then be posted. No guaranties though. 5. Then came all the mailing list email address changes, and GMANE apparently choked on some of it. Florian was posting about trying to get it worked out. At the same time period, I dropped my satellite internet service in favor of newly installed fiber optics. (Who wouldn't?? :-D ) Somewhere in this total time frame, sending using GMANE quit for all 4 lists. All the @libreoffice.org mailing lists changed to @global.libreoffice.org. There was a long delay in getting the change into Gmane. 6. The snows...@dishmail.net went away with the satellite service. 7. wordwo...@greeleynet.com was in no way connected to the satellite and fiber optics changes. Greeleynet offers dialup service, and I keep it for testing modems in the PC's I fix. And, there are too many people, places, and things that have the Wordworks email address for me to want to try to make changes at this point. 8. I played around with different ideas, could not find the answer. I found GMANE's site somewhat less than useful for the unknowing in this area. 9. Since I could not post to any of the LO lists using GMANE, I subscribed to the discussion list using the Wordworks email address. When using the wordworks account in TB, posts to the discussion list work. 10. In the GMANE account, I changed the reply to address from snows...@dishmail.net to wordwo...@greeleynet.com, thinking that might work. But, it didn't. No post to any of the 4 LO lists, sent via GMANE, ever get posted. From address should be set in the Account settings. You stated previously that you have done so. No need for a Reply-to address unless it is different than your From address. With a new address you should receive a confirmation email from Gmane that you have to reply to before the post is forwarded to LO. That is why I suggested checking your spam folders. I just made a test. I changed the email address listed in TB's Account Settings for Gmane. I then sent a message to this list. I got a reply from Gmane asking me to reply to confirm that I exist before the message would be sent to LO. For some reason you are not seeing the messages from Gmane when sending from your new address. 11. I made no change at GMANE itself. There is nothing to change on the Gmane website. 12. I still receive all posts made to the LO lists via GMANE, but anything I try to send via GMANE goes somewhere other than what I want. :-) The posts are all sitting in the appropriate sent folder, but they never show up in the LO list. I don't know if the blockage is at GMANE, LO, or both. 13. In the end, I see all the discussion list posts in both accounts, but can send in only one account. In summary: 1. I can receive LO list posts for all 4 lists in the GMANE NNTP account, but no messages I send for any of the lists ever get posted. 2. I can receive from and post to the discussion list via the Wordworks email account. That is the only LO list I've subscribed to using the wordworks address. It still sounds like you either haven't responded to or haven't received the confirmation email from Gmane. It may have been caught by spam filters somewhere before it got to you. I think I've got this written clearly. :-) But another thing I've learned over the years, never proofread your own writing! LOL And my cat's can't read. :-D It is quite clear. Here is a suggestion. Do you have another email address you could use? (I use gmail addresses for all the newsgroup and email lists I follow) If so subscribe to the no mail version of this list using another address:
