Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
Hi all,
regarding the issue of the Ryanair flights to Zaragoza, finally an agreement
between Ryanair and the local authorities has been reached. More or less as
expected, almost all EU flights continue, in some cases with increased
frequencies: LondonStansted, Milan Orio al Serio, Brussels Charleroi, Paris
Beauvais, Seville and Lanzarote. In exchange, flights to Bologna, Rome,
Tenerife, Gran Canaria, and Malaga will be stopped. You can read the news in
today's local newspaper (in Spanish):
http://www.elperiodicodearagon.com/noticias/aragon/la-dga-logra-salvar-seis-rutas-de-ryanair-que-eliminara-otras-cinco_734242.html
Moreover, as stated in our proposal, we are fully open to debate the date that
best fits the Foundation for the LibOCon conference, all September til October
5th, and also November.
p { margin-bottom: 0.08in; }a:link { }Finally, a personal comment, if anyone
does not have time to read the whole proposals, and after reading many of the
mails in the discuss forum:
Our aim by proposing a bid to organize this conference is motivated by the fact
that LibreOffice is now, in our opinion, in a crucial, and turning point of
expansion. Therefore, and as we think that LO has a brilliant future and
potential, we think that we can also contribute to its development with our
humble means, by organizing a successful event.
Thanks very much, best regards
Juan Pradas
On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 2:20 PM, Juan Pradas juanpra...@zaragoza.es wrote:
Hi Christian,
thanks for your remarks and questionsabout the flight connections.
**
1. Regarding the flight connections,Zaragoza airport is currently under
negotiations with Ryanair toreadapt its schedule for the Summer period (March
30thonwards) and for the rest of their agreement (I guess it lasts until2014 or
2015). Last October, Ryanair stopped flying to Alicante andMalaga (altough to
Malaga it should restart on April), and this is atypical example of the
trading between Ryanair and many airports(Ryanair asks for XX+1 and the airport
says XX-1). That is why, lastJanuary, Ryanair stopped selling tckets for the
summer season untilnegotiations come to an end, in order to put extra pressure
on theactivities. Probably they will discontinue some Spanish flights tothe
Canary Islands such as Tenerife, Las Palmas, and maybe Seville orBologna. What
is sure is that flights to the main EU capitals will bepursued, since they are
strategical for the authorities: LondonStansted, Milan Orio al Serio, Brussels
Charleroi, Paris Beauvais(yes, not CDG), Rome Ciampino, etc.
However, we should be able to know theexact agreement in a few days, as it
has been stated in the localpress (first part of February), and then flights
should be on saleagain (they were on sale from November till Christmas before
Ryanairblocked the sales).
***
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Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
Hi, sorry to be so pushing here, but if possible by any means, I'd like to start voting this week, since we're really late already. So, if nobody objects with serious concerns and a concrete (!) proposal what to change and who (!!) does the work, I'd like to stick for 2012 with a member voting, and evaluate in time a different option for the 2013 vote. I hope nobody feels excluded by that, and we can all live with this. After all, we're learning every day, and constructive discussions can lead to enhancements for the future. :-) Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Chairman of the Board at The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
Florian Effenberger wrote (06-02-12 18:09) sorry to be so pushing here, but if possible by any means, I'd like to start voting this week, since we're really late already. So, if nobody objects with serious concerns and a concrete (!) proposal what to change and who (!!) does the work, I'd like to stick for 2012 with a member voting, and evaluate in time a different option for the 2013 vote. I hope nobody feels excluded by that, and we can all live with this. After all, we're learning every day, and constructive discussions can lead to enhancements for the future. :-) +1 -- - Cor - http://nl.libreoffice.org -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
Hi Juan, *, On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 2:20 PM, Juan Pradas juanpra...@zaragoza.es wrote: thanks for your remarks and questions about the flight connections. Thank you very much for the detailed response. [...] In your case, for example, I would probably get a flight from Munich to Barcelona, Madrid or Bilbao, and then train (or bus for cheap budgets) to Zaragoza, 6h of TGV and then going to Orly or CDG are definitely too much for me. Yes, probably a better option, yes.. But, of course, is easier to get from Munich to Berlin than from Munich to Zaragoza :-) :-) [...] Hope this info is useful for you, let me know in case you need anything else, best regards, Yes, it definitely was very helpful. Once again thank you very much. ciao Christian -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
Hi Christian, *, Am Samstag, 4. Februar 2012, 15:28:07 schrieb Christian Lohmaier: Hi Andreas, *, On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 4:54 PM, Andreas Mantke ma...@gmx.de wrote: (...) We had a public discussion and decision of the BoD already. If there are no unknown facts or new arguments, we should not discuss and decide again (and again). I admit that I didn't follow the meeting, did not read the minutes, but what Jesús did propose would make a nice compromise, wouldn't it (not suggesting that it should be used for this year's voting, but to consider for the next round) We can discuss that for the next round; maybe there are better solutions / proposals. My question is only, why we open up the discussion now (and not after the voting). The BoD had discussed the topic and decided about it in public. Everyone had the oportunity to bring up his arguments before the decision. (...) Point 2 would be a nice job ;-( Maybe we will also hear some complaints, if someone missed to send a mail in time. ?? I absolutely don't get your point. You are saying that writing a mail is too much work, and that not writing a mail to be invited is a problem? Reaily, you didn't got it. I meant the job for the receiver of the mails (Florian?). I won't volunteer for the job to read all of this mails, decide to give the voting rights and put the mail- writer into a list or the environment for voting. That's a really nice job and the proposal should also contain the proposal for volunteering for the job ;-) Those non-TDF-members are not allowed to vote now, so how is opening a door for them too much of a problem? But maybe I completely misunderstood and you're talking about the opposite side, the group of people that are needed to process those manual requests (i.e. create a voting token and send out the corresponding link) I think we should invite every contributor to apply for a membership status and then he / she could vote for the venue of the conferences 2013 and later. It would be good to increase our member base. But a rather bad reason. If you register just to be able to vote, then your commitment to the project is questionable, and thus the entire membership status is questioned. (remember that becoming a member requires past contributions (in whatever form) and the moral commitment to continue contributing in a similar fashion). I want to vote for the location of the next conference is not enough in my opinion. Right. But if you want to vote only for the location of the next LibreOffice conference, where you will not attend, because your commitment is not longer than the day you write your mail or maybe the end of the voting, why should you get any voting rights? (But don't get me wrong, sending messages to known contributors who did not yet apply for membership is of course fine, but not if the reason behind is otherwise you won't be able to vote for the LO-conference) It should be a conference, organized from the LibreOffice community for the community and we set rules that support this goal. But we should discuss the topic after this voting and in front of the next voting. We had to start the current voting very soon, thus the organizers for 2012 have enough time to prepare the conference. Regards, Andreas -- ## Developer LibreOffice ## Freie Office-Suite für Linux, Mac, Windows ## http://LibreOffice.org ## Support the Document Foundation (http://documentfoundation.org) ## Meine Seite: http://www.amantke.de -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
On 05/02/2012 Florian Effenberger wrote: Jesús Corrius wrote on 2012-02-03 14:08: We had a huge problem in the OpenOffice.org Conference 2007 in Barcelona as more than 1000 people registered for the conference and at the end there were no more than 250 people appeared. ... We should have a registration that e.g. charges 5 € or 10 € and includes a t-shirt with it. We had that for e.g. Orvieto Yes, the idea behind the nominal participation fee in Orvieto (at the OOoCon, actually) was to limit fake registrations. While we were rather flexible about it (in some cases transferring money would have cost more than this symbolic fee), it helped in having accurate participants figures. But I wouldn't mix the two problems, i.e., avoiding that people register for a conference and then, without notice, don't show up and avoiding that random people have a say in deciding where the conference is held. Regards, Andrea. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
Hi, Andreas Mantke wrote on 2012-02-05 13:42: We can discuss that for the next round; maybe there are better solutions / proposals. My question is only, why we open up the discussion now (and not after the voting). The BoD had discussed the topic and decided about it in public. Everyone had the oportunity to bring up his arguments before the decision. I do share this. While I totally agree that there are many valid views on that topic, discussing that now, after the public BoD confcall, and the public discussion on this list, is a bit strange. It feels like the whole discussion we had done is totally senseless, since we now open the discussion again. Most of us are volunteers, and rediscussing things again and again burns a lot of time... So, my proposal would indeed be to stick what we had decided (we all, since everyone had a chance to join the discussion and the call), and discuss options for 2013, where we can change the model, of course. I meant the job for the receiver of the mails (Florian?). I won't volunteer for the job to read all of this mails, decide to give the voting rights and put the mail- writer into a list or the environment for voting. That's a really nice job and the proposal should also contain the proposal for volunteering for the job ;-) Exactly. Receiving mails, verifying they are not fraud, writing back that how those people can vote, adding them to the voting system, it is a lot of work, and I surely can't do it. And don't forget, we run out of time, people have to vote soon, so the organizers can start preparing... Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Chairman of the Board at The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
Hi Andreas, *, On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 4:54 PM, Andreas Mantke ma...@gmx.de wrote: Am Freitag, 3. Februar 2012, 14:08:58 schrieb Jesús Corrius: On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 1:45 PM, Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote: (...) I am open for discussion, of course, but I wonder that you seem to have a different opinion now, since the BoD has voted on this during the last call. ;-) I am just open to discussions ;) But I was just talking to this particular case, we need to define this for the future. If this is talking about the future, I wonder, why you jump into this thread. Got out of the bed with the wrong foot first? We had a public discussion and decision of the BoD already. If there are no unknown facts or new arguments, we should not discuss and decide again (and again). I admit that I didn't follow the meeting, did not read the minutes, but what Jesús did propose would make a nice compromise, wouldn't it (not suggesting that it should be used for this year's voting, but to consider for the next round) (...) A possible solution would be: 1. Invite all the TDF members to vote by default. 2. If you are not a member of the TDF but you also want to vote, send a message to someone (Florian maybe? :P) and you will be invited. Point 2 would be a nice job ;-( Maybe we will also hear some complaints, if someone missed to send a mail in time. ?? I absolutely don't get your point. You are saying that writing a mail is too much work, and that not writing a mail to be invited is a problem? Those non-TDF-members are not allowed to vote now, so how is opening a door for them too much of a problem? But maybe I completely misunderstood and you're talking about the opposite side, the group of people that are needed to process those manual requests (i.e. create a voting token and send out the corresponding link) I think we should invite every contributor to apply for a membership status and then he / she could vote for the venue of the conferences 2013 and later. It would be good to increase our member base. But a rather bad reason. If you register just to be able to vote, then your commitment to the project is questionable, and thus the entire membership status is questioned. (remember that becoming a member requires past contributions (in whatever form) and the moral commitment to continue contributing in a similar fashion). I want to vote for the location of the next conference is not enough in my opinion. (But don't get me wrong, sending messages to known contributors who did not yet apply for membership is of course fine, but not if the reason behind is otherwise you won't be able to vote for the LO-conference) ciao Christian -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
Hi Florian, Neither can we, nor do we intend do. The point, as stated, is that in the last years, we had many joke votings, and we would like to find a system where eligible people, i.e. those contributing and most likely attending the conference, can vote. I don't think the joking votes are that important in this particular case. We have two very serious proposals and I am sure we'll have a great LibOCon 2012 wherever we hold it. The two places are not that distant so I don't think it makes a lot of difference one place or the other one from a practical point of view (I am sure the travel costs are similar if you don't live in any of the countries). So even if people who don't plan to attend start voting massively for one of the places, where's the problem? Cheers, -- Jesús Corrius je...@softcatala.org -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
Hello Jesús, Jesús Corrius wrote on 2012-02-03 10:54: I don't think the joking votes are that important in this particular case. We have two very serious proposals and I am sure we'll have a great LibOCon 2012 wherever we hold it. The two places are not that distant so I don't think it makes a lot of difference one place or the other one from a practical point of view (I am sure the travel costs are similar if you don't live in any of the countries). So even if people who don't plan to attend start voting massively for one of the places, where's the problem? I am open for discussion, of course, but I wonder that you seem to have a different opinion now, since the BoD has voted on this during the last call. ;-) So, the point was that we want to avoid to have many people voting who will not join, but rather have those making the decision who want to join. I recall back from my OOo days the problems we had with getting numbers, and in this case, we even had some accounts we could verify, due to the web site logon. At least I do not feel comfortable with having some bot from $country voting instead of the community - and it's technically not that easy to avoid that. Just look at the bot problems in the wiki, they even manage captchas and mail confirmations. My proposal was to send out the invitation to subscribers of some mailing lists, but this is also problematic, since then we would also exclude other people who make valid contributions and who we simply could not track. I am happy to hear others thoughts on that, but for the future, I'd ask everyone to jump in the time the discussion is being opened, and not one week later. This introduces delays and much more work. We have open BoD calls and we have open discussions, so we can decide in time - and not reopen discussions over and over again. Thanks, Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Chairman of the Board at The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
Hi Jesus, Am Freitag, 3. Februar 2012, 14:08:58 schrieb Jesús Corrius: On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 1:45 PM, Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote: (...) I am open for discussion, of course, but I wonder that you seem to have a different opinion now, since the BoD has voted on this during the last call. ;-) I am just open to discussions ;) But I was just talking to this particular case, we need to define this for the future. If this is talking about the future, I wonder, why you jump into this thread. We had a public discussion and decision of the BoD already. If there are no unknown facts or new arguments, we should not discuss and decide again (and again). (...) A possible solution would be: 1. Invite all the TDF members to vote by default. 2. If you are not a member of the TDF but you also want to vote, send a message to someone (Florian maybe? :P) and you will be invited. Point 2 would be a nice job ;-( Maybe we will also hear some complaints, if someone missed to send a mail in time. I think we should invite every contributor to apply for a membership status and then he / she could vote for the venue of the conferences 2013 and later. It would be good to increase our member base. Regards, Andreas -- ## Developer LibreOffice ## Freie Office-Suite für Linux, Mac, Windows ## http://LibreOffice.org ## Support the Document Foundation (http://documentfoundation.org) ## Meine Seite: http://www.amantke.de -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
On Fri, 2012-02-03 at 16:54 +0100, Andreas Mantke wrote: Hi Jesus, Am Freitag, 3. Februar 2012, 14:08:58 schrieb Jesús Corrius: On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 1:45 PM, Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote: (...) I am open for discussion, of course, but I wonder that you seem to have a different opinion now, since the BoD has voted on this during the last call. ;-) I am just open to discussions ;) But I was just talking to this particular case, we need to define this for the future. If this is talking about the future, I wonder, why you jump into this thread. We had a public discussion and decision of the BoD already. If there are no unknown facts or new arguments, we should not discuss and decide again (and again). (...) A possible solution would be: 1. Invite all the TDF members to vote by default. 2. If you are not a member of the TDF but you also want to vote, send a message to someone (Florian maybe? :P) and you will be invited. Point 2 would be a nice job ;-( Maybe we will also hear some complaints, if someone missed to send a mail in time. I think we should invite every contributor to apply for a membership status and then he / she could vote for the venue of the conferences 2013 and later. It would be good to increase our member base. Howdy, +1 to that last statement. I realize it can be a bit intimidating, I know it was for me, there are some rather impressive individuals represented in the ranks of the foundation. Nor will I lie to you and say that every application is accepted - but I can tell you that everyone I have seen involved in the process strives to give a fair appraisal and in those cases where the answer is not at this moment attempts to impart encouragement and help on how to change that outcome - so I suppose I would like to say, don't sell yourself short, everyone's contribution is valued. Back to the subject at hand however. First I agree with the current decision on the appropriateness of using the membership roster for the vote - but I would also add, this is not happening in a back room or private mailing list - so everyone has the opportunity to have their views heard, but for that to happen you need to voice them. If you have a question for either of the teams or have an opinion on the suitability of one site over the other, don't hesitate to share it here. Just some thoughts I wanted to share. Best wishes, Drew -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
I hope that the board understands that this is no longer an issue of voting for a conference location. The we can exclude you whenever we want message being sent to contributors is rather strong. Is this issue important enough that it deserves this precedent? Cheers, Javier On 1/26/12 1:00 AM, Florian Effenberger wrote: Hi, Stefan Weigel wrote on 2012-01-25 18:45: Ok. So this is going to be a TDF conference. Accepted. ;-) TDF members decide about it, others are invited as guests. Accepted. ;-) no, that's the wrong assumption. :) It is a conference for all interested parties, for the large community, for everyone. It is called LibreOffice Conference on purpose. :-) However, we in the past had large practical problems with many people voting who did not intend to go at all - joke voters. So we had a hard time providing mechanisms to avoid joke votings. My first idea was to invite people from all the mailing lists, but in today's BoD call the concern was raised, that by that, we would effectively also miss several people, as it's no clear border to draw. What about those not on a list, but actively contributing in the wiki? Thus, for 2012, we decided to only allow members to vote, and at the same time encourage contributors to become members. I guess any solution has drawbacks, so I hope we could find some sensible one. If there is a one size fits it all solution, I am happy to hear it, of course. :-) Florian -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
Hi Javier, Javier Sola wrote on 2012-02-03 02:07: I hope that the board understands that this is no longer an issue of voting for a conference location. The we can exclude you whenever we want message being sent to contributors is rather strong. Is this issue important enough that it deserves this precedent? how do you come to say we can exclude you whenever we want? Neither can we, nor do we intend do. The point, as stated, is that in the last years, we had many joke votings, and we would like to find a system where eligible people, i.e. those contributing and most likely attending the conference, can vote. What would you propose? I rather let our members choose, than any botnet that finds the voting form... Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Chairman of the Board at The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
Hi Florian, *, Florian Effenberger wrote (28-01-12 22:49) as you might have spotted, today we issued the proposals for this years' LibreOffice Conference. Berlin and Zaragoza (in alphabetical order) have sent in their applications and are therefore candidates for this years' location. Do I remember well that we have/had the idea to choose the organisers one year before? As to give them the opportunity to learn from the current years organisers experience.. (Not that I think, looking at the proposals, that experience is really lacking ;-) ) Could these bids open the possibility to do that right now ? Would of course have as consequence that one of the teams would need to 'conserve' their enthusiasm and commitment for another year ... Cheers, -- - Cor - http://nl.libreoffice.org -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
Hi, Cor Nouws wrote on 2012-01-31 16:32: Do I remember well that we have/had the idea to choose the organisers one year before? As to give them the opportunity to learn from the current years organisers experience.. (Not that I think, looking at the proposals, that experience is really lacking ;-) ) Could these bids open the possibility to do that right now ? Would of course have as consequence that one of the teams would need to 'conserve' their enthusiasm and commitment for another year ... we have discussed that in the past, with various arguments, but in the end decided to have the 2013 application to end in August, before this years' conference. The rationale behind that is that 1. the 2013 organizers can cooperate with the 2012 organizers and 2. the 2013 organizers have some more time to work on organizing their event. I'm happy to shift the application deadline, in case people agree, but my latest status is we want to have it the way it currently is. ;) Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Chairman of the Board at The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
Hi Florian, Florian Effenberger wrote (31-01-12 17:52) we have discussed that in the past, with various arguments, but in the end decided to have the 2013 application to end in August, before this years' conference. [...] OK, sorry that I didn't remember that. No need for me to open that discussion again. Cheers, -- - Cor - http://nl.libreoffice.org -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
Hello Bruno, thank you for starting the discussion about the proposals. Here are some answers from the Berlin-Team: Am 29.01.2012 01:04, schrieb Bruno Girin: On 28/01/12 21:49, Florian Effenberger wrote: Hello, (...) Questions for Berlin: * When will you have final confirmation of the main venue? We got the final confirmation only two days ago. The conference can take place at the Federal Ministry of Economics and Technology in Berlin, Invalidenstraße. In case Berlin will be accepted as conference location we will propose two or three dates in October / November 2012 and discuss it with the community. * Will you have agreements with nearby restaurants for lunch and/or dinner so that attendees can have a quick reasonably priced meal? Berlin is well known for good and low priced meals. It is easy to find good restaurants and get lunch for less than 10 Eur. As the main venue is nearby the main station there are lot of options getting a quick meal, too. You find some restaurants there and also several fast food chains and of course Starbucks: http://www.bahnhof.de/site/bahnhoefe/de/ost/berlin__hauptbahnhof/gastronomie/gastronomie.html We will provide a full list with restaurants in the nearby area. * Will you have any catering on site (coffee, coffee and maybe coffee)? Yes, we want to offer at least coffee and tea and soft drinks for the attendees. We are in contact with the sponsor of the location, discussing that option. * Does the venue have enough power sockets to enable attendees to recharge between events (lots of laptops = lots of flat batteries)? Yes, we will provide enough power sockets inside and outside the conference rooms. In the large conference room there will be tables with power sockets every second table. * I like the Zaragoza idea of open public lectures: is it something you would consider? Yes, why not? We are open to all new ideas and are happy that the community will help to make the next LibOCon an unforgettable event. Kind regards, Jacqueline -- ## Freies Office Deutschland e.V. ## eingetragen: Vereinsregister Wiesbaden VR 3850 ## Vorstand: Thomas Krumbein, Jacqueline Rahemipour, Florian Effenberger ## Geschäftstelle: ## Riederbergstr. 92, 65195 Wiesbaden ## www.FrODeV.org, i...@frodev.org -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
Hello Bruno, thank you for your questions and your kind words to both bids. Regarding your questions: * Will you post a recording of how to say the name of your town so that all non-Spaniards can practice it before going? - Indeed the English (and German) name of Zaragoza is Saragossa, so both names can be used. We are more than happy to use the international name, in order to make life easier for all international members. We usually use Zaragoza because the Spanish name is the brand used by the city. Moreover, 90% of Spanish speakers in the world (all Latin Americans ) would use the international spelling, being the Z pronounced as an S. Wikipedia shows this pronunciation for the city: (Spanish pronunciation: [θaɾaˈɣoθa]), but is definitely easier using the S intead of the Z, as in 'Saragossa' :-) * Same as above: Does the venue have enough power sockets to enable attendees to recharge between events (lots of laptops = lots of flat batteries)? Yes, we will provide sockets inside the different rooms, and extra tables outside with sockets, with assistance from our local AZ Linux team if needed. Thanks for asking because this is not a minor issue: in a recent event we organised two months ago, the Spanish national OS conference (www.libresoftwareworldconference.com), we increased the number of available sockets for the 700 attendees (we expected around 500, but finally, 200 more registered). With the help of the local maintenance team at the Saragossa City Council, extra power lines coming from other floors were added to provide enough energy for all laptops during the event. To make it more clear visually, all interested members can check the location of the rooms here at the Seminario building, as seen in the illustration we made for that event: http://www.libresoftwareworldconference.com/localizacion/dentro-de-la-sede.html The large Auditorium (Salon de Actos, with 280 seats) is located in the ground floor (Planta Calle) , and the rest of the rooms are located in the first floor (Planta Primera), with three medium halls up to 80 seats, and three other rooms for 30-40 people. Thanks, best regards Juan Pradas Original Message Subject: Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 00:04:13 + From: Bruno Girin brunogi...@gmail.com Reply-to: discuss@documentfoundation.org To: discuss@documentfoundation.org Questions for Zaragoza: * Will you post a recording of how to say the name of your town so that all non-Spaniards can practice it before going? * Same as above: Does the venue have enough power sockets to enable attendees to recharge between events (lots of laptops = lots of flat batteries)? Cheers, Bruno -- -- Juan Pradas Gestor de Proyectos Milla Digital - Ayuntamiento de Zaragoza Milla Digital Project Manager - Zaragoza City Council Av. Hispanidad, 20, Edificio Seminario 50009 Zaragoza (Spain) Tel. +34-976-723738 http://www.zaragoza.es/tecnologia www.facebook.com/milladigital http://twitter.com/milladigital -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
On 28/01/12 21:49, Florian Effenberger wrote: Hello, as you might have spotted, today we issued the proposals for this years' LibreOffice Conference. Berlin and Zaragoza (in alphabetical order) have sent in their applications and are therefore candidates for this years' location. All details can be found at http://blog.documentfoundation.org/2012/01/28/libocon-2012-proposals/ I'd like to officially open the discussion here. Anyone interested can ask the organizers questions, and organizers are free to sent in additional details. Hi all, My first reaction reading both proposals is: wow! There are only two of them but they are both of very high quality so congrats to both teams! Wherever LibOCon goes for 2012, the other one will be a very worthy candidate for 2013. At first glance, Berlin felt like a shoe-in: that's the home of The Document Foundation and I love Berlin. But then when reading the Zaragoza proposal, I started to change my mind: this is a very well thought out proposal and you can tell that they are used to organise events like this. So without further ado, here are my questions for the two teams: Questions for Berlin: * When will you have final confirmation of the main venue? * Will you have agreements with nearby restaurants for lunch and/or dinner so that attendees can have a quick reasonably priced meal? * Will you have any catering on site (coffee, coffee and maybe coffee)? * Does the venue have enough power sockets to enable attendees to recharge between events (lots of laptops = lots of flat batteries)? * I like the Zaragoza idea of open public lectures: is it something you would consider? Questions for Zaragoza: * Will you post a recording of how to say the name of your town so that all non-Spaniards can practice it before going? * Same as above: Does the venue have enough power sockets to enable attendees to recharge between events (lots of laptops = lots of flat batteries)? Cheers, Bruno -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[OT] Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
Robert, Le mardi 24 janvier 2012 à 15:49 -0600, Robert Derman a écrit : Florian Effenberger wrote: Hi, Olivier Hallot wrote on 2012-01-24 15:48: Voting is a measure of traceable membership participation/activity. Otherwise we can get spammed on untraceable votes to send us where we don't want LibCon to happen. by that, we would exclude a large amount of developers, and I am sure want to have them on the list. While it might be indeed something to attract more people applying for membership, I think excluding them from all votings (rather than only elections, which is what membership is about), does not feel right - but I am happy to hear some more thoughts, since we seem to have mixed feelings here. ;) Florian Perhaps we should have 2 tiered membership, full members, developers who contribute on a regular and ongoing basis and such, and associate members, those who have been on the mail lists since the founding of TDF, and who contribute in less provable ways, like promoting the program, giving others the program on disk etc. I have been on the discuss list with OOo since about the turn of the century, and actually would like to contribute to the program in limited ways, like sending word lists for the spelling dictionary, and enhancing the autocorrect function if any developer is willing to help me to do it. I haven't done any programming since working with BASIC back in the 1980s, so I can't contribute much to the code, but I would like to do whatever I can. Slightly off topic but a quick comment: TDF members are not just developers; if you read bylaws we do ackowledge other, technical *or* non-technical contributions. Best, -- Charles-H. Schulz Co-Founder Director, The Document Foundation. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
Hi, Am 25.01.2012 17:57, schrieb Florian Effenberger: we just discussed about that in the BoD call, and agreed to only let members vote. Ok. So this is going to be a TDF conference. Accepted. ;-) TDF members decide about it, others are invited as guests. Accepted. ;-) However, even if not allowed to vote, *all* people who feel themselves as a part of the LibreOffice community can at least post a statement at the mailing list, in order to support their favorite proposal. Right? They can even go out on the street for a demonstration. :-D I love this freedom. :-D Stefan -- LibreOffice - Die Freiheit nehm' ich mir! -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
Hi Stefan, Am 25.01.2012 18:45, schrieb Stefan Weigel: I love this freedom. :-D I also. Rgd Jochen -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
Hi, Stefan Weigel wrote on 2012-01-25 18:45: Ok. So this is going to be a TDF conference. Accepted. ;-) TDF members decide about it, others are invited as guests. Accepted. ;-) no, that's the wrong assumption. :) It is a conference for all interested parties, for the large community, for everyone. It is called LibreOffice Conference on purpose. :-) However, we in the past had large practical problems with many people voting who did not intend to go at all - joke voters. So we had a hard time providing mechanisms to avoid joke votings. My first idea was to invite people from all the mailing lists, but in today's BoD call the concern was raised, that by that, we would effectively also miss several people, as it's no clear border to draw. What about those not on a list, but actively contributing in the wiki? Thus, for 2012, we decided to only allow members to vote, and at the same time encourage contributors to become members. I guess any solution has drawbacks, so I hope we could find some sensible one. If there is a one size fits it all solution, I am happy to hear it, of course. :-) Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Chairman of the Board at The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
Le 2012-01-23 02:07, Florian Effenberger a écrit : - A third option would be to send out a voting invitation to everyone subscribe to a set of mailing lists (e.g. discuss@, announce@ and so on), but send them a private token. That way, only active people in the project could vote, but TDF membership would not be necessary. What do you think? Thanks, Florian This third option seems to make the most sense. As you imply, the most active members would then be included in the vote. As this is a form of filtering of our mailing lists active contributers, we could also take advantage of this occasion by accompanying the email with a short statement/link for these people to check on the criteria for membership application -- some may then consider applying for membership or work towards filling the criteria to membership. Perhaps the text could read as follows: Have you considered joining OR working towards the LibreOffice membership? Visit the membership page to verify criteria expectations of membership application. [http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/CommunityBylaws#Membership]; Cheers, Marc -- Marc Paré m...@marcpare.com http://www.parEntreprise.com parEntreprise.com Supports OpenDocument Formats (ODF) parEntreprise.com Supports http://www.LibreOffice.org -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
Marc Paré wrote (24-01-12 10:36) This third option seems to make the most sense. As you imply, the most active members would then be included in the vote. I agree, but of course we say 'active people' here. As this is a form of filtering of our mailing lists active contributers, we could also take advantage of this occasion by accompanying the email with a short statement/link for these people to [...] Nice idea :-) -- - Cor - http://nl.libreoffice.org -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
Am 23.01.2012 08:07, schrieb Florian Effenberger: - Where I'm a bit undetermined is the voting scheme itself - One option is to allow every subscriber to the announce@ lists to vote (after e-mail confirmation in the voting system itself), - another one is to allow only TDF members to vote. The latter one would exclude joke votings like we have seen them in the past, but exclude many eligible people. - A third option would be to send out a voting invitation to everyone subscribe to a set of mailing lists (e.g. discuss@, announce@ and so on), but send them a private token. That way, only active people in the project could vote, but TDF membership would not be necessary. What do you think? First when I saw this thread I expected a BoD-vote. -- Grüße k-j -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
Hi, klaus-jürgen weghorn ol wrote on 2012-01-24 10:57: First when I saw this thread I expected a BoD-vote. I guess that would be the wrong direction. The conference is for the communit at large, so the community should decide. In theory, that means opening up a public link so anyone can vote. However, in the past, we sometimes had cases of people abusing that, massively voting for one location, while they are neither engaged in our community, nor intended to go to the conference. So, I'd like to find some sensible mechanism to involve as many people as possible, without opening the door for misuse of the voting. Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Chairman of the Board at The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
Hi Florian, 2012/1/23 Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org: [..] - Where I'm a bit undetermined is the voting scheme itself [..] - another one is to allow only TDF members to vote. The latter one would exclude joke votings like we have seen them in the past, but exclude many eligible people. This is what I would prefer. [..] What do you think? See above, for the same reasons you mentioned. Volker -- Volker Merschmann Member of The Document Foundation http://www.documentfoundation.org -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
Hi, 2012/1/24 Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org: So, I'd like to find some sensible mechanism to involve as many people as possible, without opening the door for misuse of the voting. Just a guess: A minimum of five postings to any of our mailinglists up to this day? Volker -- Volker Merschmann Member of The Document Foundation http://www.documentfoundation.org -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
Hi, Volker Merschmann wrote on 2012-01-24 11:06: - another one is to allow only TDF members to vote. The latter one would exclude joke votings like we have seen them in the past, but exclude many eligible people. This is what I would prefer. I think this would exclude a fair amount of contributors. Many of e.g. the code contributors are not members, but indeed do a very valueable work. Excluding them from voting sounds wrong. Volker Merschmann wrote on 2012-01-24 11:20: Just a guess: A minimum of five postings to any of our mailinglists up to this day? Counting the postings is rather tedious. I would simply extract the recipient list of several mailing lists and then appeal at them to being fair and vote only if they intend to join. I rather take the risk of have some joke votings from those who are subscribed to our discussion lists, rather than excluding a group of very valued contributors. Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Chairman of the Board at The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
Florian Effenberger wrote (24-01-12 11:26) I think this would exclude a fair amount of contributors. Many of e.g. the code contributors are not members, but indeed do a very valueable work. Excluding them from voting sounds wrong. And it's not logic: the conference is not meant for members only. -- - Cor - http://nl.libreoffice.org -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
On 1/24/12 11:04 AM, Florian Effenberger wrote: Hi, klaus-jürgen weghorn ol wrote on 2012-01-24 10:57: First when I saw this thread I expected a BoD-vote. I guess that would be the wrong direction. The conference is for the communit at large, so the community should decide. In theory, that means opening up a public link so anyone can vote. However, in the past, we sometimes had cases of people abusing that, massively voting for one location, while they are neither engaged in our community, nor intended to go to the conference. So, I'd like to find some sensible mechanism to involve as many people as possible, without opening the door for misuse of the voting. Florian Florian Would this help any facilitating the votes? http://doodle.com/ -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
Hi, Jonathan Aquilina wrote on 2012-01-24 12:49: Would this help any facilitating the votes? http://doodle.com/ maybe, but I am not so keen in having so large votes on an ad-financed platform. Maybe we can use an own survey system. Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Chairman of the Board at The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
Helli Florian I'd still go for letting TDF members vote, why would we have the membership then? :-) Best, Charles. Le 24 janv. 2012 13:09, Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org a écrit : Hi, Jonathan Aquilina wrote on 2012-01-24 12:49: Would this help any facilitating the votes? http://doodle.com/ maybe, but I am not so keen in having so large votes on an ad-financed platform. Maybe we can use an own survey system. Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org** Chairman of the Board at The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+help@**documentfoundation.orgdiscuss%2bh...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/**get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-** unsubscribe/http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.**documentfoundation.org/** Netiquette http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.**documentfoundation.org/www/**discuss/http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi All, Em 24-01-2012 09:03, Cor Nouws escreveu: Florian Effenberger wrote (24-01-12 11:26) I think this would exclude a fair amount of contributors. Many of e.g. the code contributors are not members, but indeed do a very valueable work. Excluding them from voting sounds wrong. And it's not logic: the conference is not meant for members only. We are talking on choosing the location, not about non-member participating at the conference. Since TDF will be strongly involved into the organization of the conference, that shall be an internal voting, IMHO. Voting is a measure of traceable membership participation/activity. Otherwise we can get spammed on untraceable votes to send us where we don't want LibCon to happen. - -- Olivier Hallot Founder, Board of Directors Member - The Document Foundation LibreOffice translation leader for Brazilian Portuguese +55-21-8822-8812 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJPHsTDAAoJEJp3R7nH3vLxVxsIAKjnsvfThXL9AQGRnZTSevCf o2kgeDPU5aTDXgVB0vaSWfHyRFjPejaj7bdew32SdBrbi4qnAjJMPKGZ2AZZMPHV CAaVVpztLu8Hbz/464DaIWzvuy34Mvn9XZIiXi1ZwUs4e96fa3zkDzZpqZNqRW47 DtodmFpjU/2jRU6cTjDJoJfrcAr0z3+DhasqkAHwyrzAxuq0g/1zEB0vqZDtGxSe FbgeQbtWC2+QII/72pjL1zlSG632T2TWqkwlgXYRUywujCD3lpqpBxAgL9y/9whd d9/60OZyje+esoY/o0RPIfDIWtb2TwgjfmNx9S+fsObzj2Mk448gGkofJbuzyNw= =NZJH -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
On Tue, 2012-01-24 at 12:48 -0200, Olivier Hallot wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi All, Em 24-01-2012 09:03, Cor Nouws escreveu: Florian Effenberger wrote (24-01-12 11:26) I think this would exclude a fair amount of contributors. Many of e.g. the code contributors are not members, but indeed do a very valueable work. Excluding them from voting sounds wrong. And it's not logic: the conference is not meant for members only. We are talking on choosing the location, not about non-member participating at the conference. Since TDF will be strongly involved into the organization of the conference, that shall be an internal voting, IMHO. Voting is a measure of traceable membership participation/activity. Otherwise we can get spammed on untraceable votes to send us where we don't want LibCon to happen. Hello, Though we should certainly solicit input from anyone during the deliberation period it seems most appropriate for the final decision to be made by the foundation members. Best wishes, //drew -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
Hi, Am 24.01.2012 14:26, schrieb Charles-H. Schulz: I'd still go for letting TDF members vote, why would we have the membership then? :-) Beeing committed to the project does not necessarily mean to be a member of the TDF. The event is supposed to be a LibreOffice Conference rather than a TDF Conference, from what I understand. I find it reasonable to let the people vote to who the event is targetted to. And that´s not only TDF members. :-) Stefan -- LibreOffice - Die Freiheit nehm' ich mir! -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
On 24/01/2012 12:03, Cor Nouws wrote: Florian Effenberger wrote (24-01-12 11:26) I think this would exclude a fair amount of contributors. Many of e.g. the code contributors are not members, but indeed do a very valueable work. Excluding them from voting sounds wrong. And it's not logic: the conference is not meant for members only. +1 :) Kind regards Sophie -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
Hi, Olivier Hallot wrote on 2012-01-24 15:48: Voting is a measure of traceable membership participation/activity. Otherwise we can get spammed on untraceable votes to send us where we don't want LibCon to happen. by that, we would exclude a large amount of developers, and I am sure want to have them on the list. While it might be indeed something to attract more people applying for membership, I think excluding them from all votings (rather than only elections, which is what membership is about), does not feel right - but I am happy to hear some more thoughts, since we seem to have mixed feelings here. ;) Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Chairman of the Board at The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
Florian Effenberger wrote: Hi, Olivier Hallot wrote on 2012-01-24 15:48: Voting is a measure of traceable membership participation/activity. Otherwise we can get spammed on untraceable votes to send us where we don't want LibCon to happen. by that, we would exclude a large amount of developers, and I am sure want to have them on the list. While it might be indeed something to attract more people applying for membership, I think excluding them from all votings (rather than only elections, which is what membership is about), does not feel right - but I am happy to hear some more thoughts, since we seem to have mixed feelings here. ;) Florian Perhaps we should have 2 tiered membership, full members, developers who contribute on a regular and ongoing basis and such, and associate members, those who have been on the mail lists since the founding of TDF, and who contribute in less provable ways, like promoting the program, giving others the program on disk etc. I have been on the discuss list with OOo since about the turn of the century, and actually would like to contribute to the program in limited ways, like sending word lists for the spelling dictionary, and enhancing the autocorrect function if any developer is willing to help me to do it. I haven't done any programming since working with BASIC back in the 1980s, so I can't contribute much to the code, but I would like to do whatever I can. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
Hello everyone, 2012/1/23 Stefan Weigel stefan.wei...@bildungskreis.org Hi, Am 23.01.2012 08:32, schrieb Florian Effenberger: I just was privately contacted by a third proponent. They tell that due to internet connectivity issues during the weekend, they were not able to retrieve the CfL, and thus not be able to create a proposal in time. Sounds a bit strange to me. There was enough time for preparing a proposal. I am asking myself, if someone who starts too late, without any buffer time for unexpected difficulties, really qualifies for organising such a big and complex event. I think that it is okay to have the third proposal resubmitted for 2013. Moreover, because we end up with two proposals, we might not even have to vote (since we have one proposal for each year) and we only need to prioritize them. Best, Charles. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
Hi, Charles-H. Schulz wrote on 2012-01-23 09:44: Moreover, because we end up with two proposals, we might not even have to vote (since we have one proposal for each year) and we only need to prioritize them. both proposal IMHO run for 2012, so we indeed should have a vote on who will be the host for this year. ;-) Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Chairman of the Board at The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
2012/1/23 Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Hi, Charles-H. Schulz wrote on 2012-01-23 09:44: Moreover, because we end up with two proposals, we might not even have to vote (since we have one proposal for each year) and we only need to prioritize them. both proposal IMHO run for 2012, so we indeed should have a vote on who will be the host for this year. ;-) hmm... sorry I had not understood that quite important nuance :-) and yes indeed, it means we must have a vote! Best, Charles. Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org** Chairman of the Board at The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+help@**documentfoundation.orgdiscuss%2bh...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/**get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-** unsubscribe/http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.**documentfoundation.org/** Netiquette http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.**documentfoundation.org/www/**discuss/http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
Florian Effenberger wrote: Hello, we have received two proposals for this years' LibreOffice Conference - thank you very much for your applications! My proposal for the voting process is as follows: - I would like to make the proposals public immediately, by uploading them to the wiki, and sending out a short notice to announce@tdf - For the timeline of a week or so, the community can ask direct questions to the proponents, should something be unclear in their proposals - After that, we will initiate the voting - For voting, I propose to use a simple majority vote, i.e. the proposal having more votes will host the conference - The candidate not succeeding this year can propose for 2013, but it will not automatically be preferred there (since we already called for 2013 proposals as well) - Where I'm a bit undetermined is the voting scheme itself - One option is to allow every subscriber to the announce@ lists to vote (after e-mail confirmation in the voting system itself), - another one is to allow only TDF members to vote. The latter one would exclude joke votings like we have seen them in the past, but exclude many eligible people. - A third option would be to send out a voting invitation to everyone subscribe to a set of mailing lists (e.g. discuss@, announce@ and so on), but send them a private token. That way, only active people in the project could vote, but TDF membership would not be necessary. What do you think? Thanks, Florian I like the third option, there are many of us, like myself who have been active on the Discuss list, the Users list and others, since long before the LO fork, but are not programmer/developers. All I have been able to do is to distribute the program on disk, and install it on every machine I built for my customers, (hundreds of them) over the years. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
Hi Florian, *, Am 23.01.2012 08:07, schrieb Florian Effenberger: [schnipp] - A third option would be to send out a voting invitation to everyone subscribe to a set of mailing lists (e.g. discuss@, announce@ and so on), but send them a private token. That way, only active people in the project could vote, but TDF membership would not be necessary. Is it a big technical and/or manpowering effort to do it in that way? -- Grüße k-j -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
Hello, Florian Effenberger wrote on 2012-01-23 08:07: we have received two proposals for this years' LibreOffice Conference - thank you very much for your applications! I just was privately contacted by a third proponent. They tell that due to internet connectivity issues during the weekend, they were not able to retrieve the CfL, and thus not be able to create a proposal in time. Their question is, whether they can work on it today and send it in. My *personal* opinion is that it would be unfair to others to extend the deadline, so I would propose them to send in for 2013 instead. Everyone had a fair chance and the deadline was well known - but I'd like to hear your thoughts on that. Florian -- Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org Chairman of the Board at The Document Foundation Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108 Skype: floeff | Twitter/Identi.ca: @floeff -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] LibOCon proposals
Hi, Am 23.01.2012 08:32, schrieb Florian Effenberger: I just was privately contacted by a third proponent. They tell that due to internet connectivity issues during the weekend, they were not able to retrieve the CfL, and thus not be able to create a proposal in time. Sounds a bit strange to me. There was enough time for preparing a proposal. I am asking myself, if someone who starts too late, without any buffer time for unexpected difficulties, really qualifies for organising such a big and complex event. Stefan -- LibreOffice - Die Freiheit nehm' ich mir! -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
